@@delila_UA-cam, It’s nice to “meet” you, too! I just started this UA-cam channel about 4 months ago. It’s definitely a steep learning curve, but I’m enjoying being able to directly share videos with all of you! 😁
Hi Dana, just want to say how much a love your method. I’m a professional genealogist in Australia and specialise in DNA analysis. I use your method with almost every client and I’ve got very quick with it. It’s just simplified everything and focuses my research. Thank you!
Hi carokat1111. I live in Australia and have been an amateur genealogist for many decades. May I please ask how you become a professional here in Australia? Are there certain certificates or learning you must undertake?
@@traceyholt8223 Hi, there are two main ways. Take the course offered by the Society of Australian Genealogists (SAG) and become an accredited genealogist through them; or approach AAGRA, the Association of Australian Genealogists and Record Agents, and apply through their organisation. With AAGRA you have to prove your skills and understanding/training which then gets assessed. I chose AAGRA. After that it's a case of paying yearly membership fees to remain a member.
Thank you for your presentation. Instead of typing the names into your spreadsheet, you can highlight each match's name on Ancestry and then copy and paste these into your spreadsheet. Each name will then be hyperlinked - meaning it is easy to click on any name in your spreadsheet and go straight to the details of your match with them on Ancestry.
I'm very excited about your channel! I've been doing my family's genealogy for 20 years and through dna we realized that my grandfather's parents were not biological. I'm starting to use your Leeds Method to sort through who my maternal great-grandparents were. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it!
Good luck! I just discovered that a different biological great-grandfather than what was in the records for a family member! And, with the enhanced shared matches, it only took me on day/night to figure out who it was! 😯There was a high match of 524, though. Good luck! And I hope to have the next video out Monday or Tuesday.
So glad you are putting these out there. Very information. Approach of your videos is excellent for both beginners and those who have been at this for some time.
Hi Dana! I love your videos! I am hitting a brick wall on my paternal side with an unknown paternal great-grandfather and unknown parents for my paternal great-grandmother so I would need to use the method for matches that are less than 90 cM. I hope you do a video covering this situation. Blessings!
I will! In the meantime, if you have a subscription (or get a free trial) to Legacy Family Tree Webinars, you might find my "One Man, Multiple Names: A DNA-Based Case Study" useful.
I am a huge fan of your method. A couple of questions; If i only want to identify 2nd ggparents, do i expand the cm window? Or do i find the grand parent clusters then do mini leeds on each cluster until i get the great grands and then further to great great grands? Would it also be efficient to just cluster using the common ancestor identified in the thrulines and see who is related starting there? How far back can i try to go? Is there a generation cut off period?
Hi. Just to give context, im trying to find the parents of my Freedman great grandfather. Since the parent could be a slave thus difficult to find documentation, perhaps i could narrow down siblings? Its obv a mess lol
Hi! And I see your follow-up, too, and know that finding enslaved ancestors can be quite difficult. In general, you can work on a 2x great grandparent in either way you mentioned. After you create the initial clusters, you can start adding in lower matches. There are multiple ways to do this, too. :) But, if a lower match matches some in that 400 to 90 cM range, you can assign them the same color. If they don't match anyone who already has a color, they can start a new color. Or my preference would be to start working with whatever cluster(s) match the correct line. Then start looking at the Shared Matches of the people in this cluster. You can hopefully start dividing it into what I call "His, Hers, and Theirs." For example, if the cluster is around a set of your great grandparents, some matches will just be related to his side of the family, some to hers, and some are their descendants to "theirs." Then, once you've identified a few matches that might help on this line, look at their shared matches...and continue the process. Hope this helps! It's something I need to make a video about, too. :)
Hello Ms. Dana!! Thank you for this video!! May I ask a question, I’m stuck? lol. I get to cluster three and the starred person along with some of their matches match the people in cluster two. Should I add her and everyone she matches to cluster two or leave them all as cluster three? I’m guessing I should add them to cluster two?
@@creativelife9871, Hi! Great question. My rule of thumb is, “If most of the people in one cluster are also in another, then you can combine them.” So it sounds likely you should combine them. 😊 Hope this helps! And thanks for asking!
Hi Dana, quick question, as you know for those of us here in the US, typically our MyHeritage matches are nothing like what we find on Ancestry. Would you include those matches on your ancestry LEEDS chart or build one specifically for your MH matches? If you build one for MY how far down would you go to? And I guess this quotation would also go for the other sites including GEDmatch?
Hi! And great question. I actually keep all of my charts separate for the different testing sites. An exception would be if you are actually seeing - or "forcing" - your matches into 4 clusters for the 4 grandparent lines. You could then combine them. When I started the Leeds Method, people often had only 7-8 matches. And it still "worked," though you wouldn't probably see all 4 lines. That's kind of where we are at on other sites. You can go as low as you want, you'll just start seeing more and more clusters and it might be confusing depending on how well you understand the methodology. Hope this helps!
@@DanaLeedsThanks for the feedback. Now a new question lol. Any suggestions on figuring out pedigree collapse? I'm trying to determine who my paternal great grandfather is. At first I thought it was endogamy but the more I learn I've figured out it's pedigree collapse. I have three clusters unless I go way back, but I can't figure those matches out. All I do know, now is that he was adopted. I've got almost all my closer matches placed in my tree.
To start, family surnames and these are all on my paternal, maternal line. BTW I'm an NPE so I never knew my birth father. My dad's mom comes from the Hammond/Turple line, on her dad's side (my G grandparents) it's Hammond/Sortor, and on her mom's side it's Turple/Estabrook, then the Estabrook's mother was a Smith. Originally I thought endogamy and I have lots of matches leading to the Turple/Estabrook, and with several I share fairly high numbers example 567 with a 2C1R, 327cM with another, those two are first cousins to one another. I originally thought these were double cousins so those numbers made sense, however, upon gaining access to those "double cousins" DNA matches they have a lot of Hammond and Sortor connections, none of which I have and should. These are people descending from my great grandfather's siblings lines.... This is hard to explain in text without it being a lot. I did find a couple of Turple first cousins marrying and I know that the Hammond/Sortor family and the Turple/Estabrook families were close. In fact, at one point the Turple family adopted a Hammond baby and I suspect my great grandfather may have been a "pay back" to the Turple family. I think the Hammonds may have adopted a Turple baby (my great grandfather) I have many many many connections that lead back to the Smith line (my GG Grandmother's) maternal line I suspect either a Turple and a Smith cousins had a child which resulted in my great grandfather. Zero connections to just the Hammond/Sortor lines. And I've come across another who descend from my great grandfather and they also have no Hammond connections other than myself. And I've met those who come from my great grandfather's siblings lines and they have connections to every Hammond sibling line except my great grandfather and although they should be connecting to me they don't. Lol again it's hard to explain, plus I only have three lines when others who I am supposed double cousins with have all four great grandparents couples. I'm sorry if this didn't make sense. Working with high endogamy cases have been easier than this lol.
@@MusicInMotion_67, Yes, it's hard to explain using just words! 😉 I followed it pretty well, though. But I am confused, as you said you were trying to identify your great-grandfather and then talked about his siblings. I'm unsure if this is your unknown line or if I got lost. I am going to be focusing on pedigree collapse in 2025! My mom's mom's family has pedigree collapse with multiple situations of cousins marrying - both in our direct and collateral lines. As I unravel my matches, I hope it will help others, too! So stay tuned... 😊
What if you only have 9 matches in the 90 to 400 cm range? I am trying to find the parents of my 3rd great-grandfather. Do I need to include my 4th cousins?
Thank you for your question. I can see how that statement might be confusing. When I said 'related to only one of my grandparents,' I wasn't referring to direct descendancy from my grandparent. Instead, I was talking about being related through only one grandparental line. For example, a DNA match might be related to me through my paternal grandmother's family line, but not through any of my other three grandparents' lines. This person could be a descendant of my grandmother's siblings, cousins, or even more distant relatives like her great-grandparents' other descendants. The goal is to identify matches who share DNA with me exclusively through one of these four branches of my family tree, rather than matches who are related to me through multiple grandparental lines. This helps in sorting and categorizing DNA matches to specific parts of my ancestry. Hope this helps!
Hello, I am new to geneology. I did a Leeds chart! I have 5 clusters. I have 3 clusters that are attached to my maternal side but it does not seem that any of these matches overlap??? I am confused by this. I am trying to find out who my maternal great-grandfather is and who my maternal grandfather is.
Those 3 clusters likely do represent your maternal line, even without obvious overlap. This can happen for two main reasons: 1. You may be dealing with more distant relatives (3rd cousins rather than 2nd cousins), who share less DNA with each other 2. Some relatives, even at the same relationship level, might not share detectable DNA with each other due to random inheritance patterns To verify the clusters: ✔Check shared matches for each person within their cluster ✔Look for repeating people, surnames, or locations ✔Focus on identifying how people within each cluster relate to each other first The next key step is mapping relationships within each cluster. Once you understand how cluster members connect to each other, you can work backward to find your connection point. Here's a video that might help: ua-cam.com/video/pJSbPdFWevc/v-deo.html Hope that helps! And let me know if you have other questions about working with your Leeds clusters.
Enjoyed your video. I'm just starting out with this DNA matching, waiting for results from Ancestry. Could you do an instructional video on how to cluster 8 groups to include the next generation of grandparents please?
I did it, and it got a small third cluster as well which has me baffled.The asterisked third person has four matches that show up in two clusters. She is by herself.
@@mariharris4984, You might start with the other 2 clusters and then look at her. If she's matching people in both clusters, she's likely a descendant of your grandparents - or at least related to both sides.
There is a secret (or two of them) in my paternal side! One set of matches-the first one-does NOT go to my paternal grandfather. Different surname. The second group goes to my paternal grandmother for the most part. The third group matches both except for the key person. A problem is my grandmother's grandma, has the same surname as the first group and is somehow tied into that line. I have done an extensive tree on them already and still can't figure it out.
My problem is I just found that my Great-grandfather died 13 years before my Grandfather was born. Can this be used the same way to find my new Great-grandfather. I know the line he is on but not sure how to narrow it down. Any help would be appreciated. I really enjoyed your show.
Hi! Yes, it could be helpful. I will be putting something similar on my UA-cam channel, but for now one of the best resources if a video I did for Legacy Family Tree Webinars called “One Man, Multiple Names: A DNA-Based Case Study.” This was about identifying an unknown great-grandfather who was living under an alias! You’ll need either a subscription or free trial to watch it.
I’m fairly sure that I am the only child of my biological parents as a couple. This would seem to make all of my matches half relationships. Would it be advisable to cut the 400-90 range in half to 200-45 or would this not work?
@@MissingaDIMM, Great question! The Leeds Method was actually created to help adoptees. The matches between 400-90 cM are usually 2nd to 3rd cousins who share sets of great-grandparents and great, great-grandparents. So go ahead and use the 400-90 cM range. Best wishes!
When I start working with DNA matches, I break them into four clusters based on the four grandparents. Then, I work on breaking each of those into two parts-so working toward clusters of the 8 great-grandparents. And then I do it again to work toward 16 great-great-grandparents. Besides the initial four clusters, I usually focus on just one line at a time. I've been getting a lot of questions about identifying more distant generations, so I will create some videos showing my process. :) Thanks for the question!
Hi! First check to see if some of the clusters have "heavy overlap" - where most of the people in one color cluster are also in another. If you see that, you can combine them. After that, you can just start working with each cluster. Figure out how the people in a cluster are related to each other, and then how they're related to you. I know it's harder than that, but that's the process I use! 😊 Best wishes!
On Ancestry/MH, I only have 1 match between 90-400cM, a 2C sharing 197cM (I have about 100 matches 20cM-60cM). I haven't been able to connect any of these people to my tree yet, but can connect some to the same groups. I have 1 set of unknown great-grandparents and then 3 sets of unknown 2xgreat-grandparents. I found a tree-owner whose spouse is my 2C1R (descended from my grandmother's sister). We've made intros, but I'm still waiting for a response to some information I asked about. If I can get her to test (they're in Germany) our shared matches would be from my set of unknown great-grandparents. I feel like I am constantly circling, but can't quite find the landing spot.
Hi! Having recent ancestors from outside of the U.S. makes using these tests more difficult. You might consider paying to test at 23andMe, though I'm not sure how much that would help. And consider transferring your results - for free - to FTDNA. You never know where your closest match might have tested! Besides that, I'd recommend doing what it sounds like you're doing - basically continuing to make clusters out of shared matches and determining how people are related to each other. Best wishes!
@@maryriser7836, It’s a GREAT way to help you identify an unknown grandparent! Create the clusters and figure out which ones are related to your known grandparents. Then, hopefully they’ll be one (or more) unknown clusters left. Try to figure out how the people in that cluster are related to each other. And then try to figure out how their common ancestors could be related to you. In this case, hopefully the common ancestors are the parents of your unknown grandfather. :)
I do a similar thing on the Ancestry web site itself using coloured dots. I’m not sure what benefit, if any, is gained by doing it this way. It looks like a lot more work.
Hi. I know some people color their matches online. I prefer the spreadsheet as you can see the full picture. And you can see when people are in more than one cluster, which is helpful. And, if your matches are more "complicated" - for instance te person has endogamy or pedigree collapse - doing the Leeds Method on a spreadsheet is a quicker way to see that. But, if you've already used the dots for your matches and it's working for you, that's great! :)
Hi Dana! I am trying to find a 2x great grandfather. I had my dad do his Ydna and results are done, on FamilyTreeDna but I do not know how to read the result. Would you suggest a Leeds Method for that? What would you suggest? Other UA-cam videos are confusing!
@@hmt702, Hi! A Y-DNA test is different than an autosomal test like what we see at AncestryDNA. And the Leeds Method doesn’t work for Y. It might take some time, but I’ll make a test to help people understand Y-DNA testing at FamilyTreeDNA. (And I’m glad you find my video helpful!) In the meantime, I’m going to suggest a video by my friend, Diahan Southard, who is Your DNA Guide. Here’s a link: ua-cam.com/video/qYdt0o2p85I/v-deo.htmlsi=e4U8Dcn5dgBykAbH But, you can also continue to work with the autosomal DNA matches to identify this unknown 2x great grandfather. If you start with the Leeds Method, you will look for the cluster (or clusters) that belong to the right grandparent line. Then you try to find your highest match that is a descendant of the known great grandparent. Looking at the shared matches of that person, someone will be related to the couple (basically descendants of the couple - like you), some will be related to just his side of the family, and others will be related to just her side. I use a method I created called the His, Hers, or Theirs Method. I also need to make a video about that! But you’ll be trying to isolate those that are related to “his” side of the family. Hope this helps! And I wish I could get the videos out more quickly :)
Just tried this method. I don't know what I did wrong. I had 9 custers. I am looking for the parents of my father's grandmother. I am using my father's dna so I thought the 90 to 400 cM would apply. I have only 16 matches in that range. I deleted anyone that showed up in two shared matches lists. Only 2 clusters had more than one person. I get that maybe I don't have enough matches, but why did I get 9 clusters? Is ther a way to combine data from different testing companies?
Hi! 16 matches should work just fine! First of all, keep the people who show up in more than one cluster. They are providing more information! (And there's not an easy way to combine multiple testing sites.) I'd recommend this video: ua-cam.com/video/P6JYhbY26CY/v-deo.html I'd also recommend this one, which deals with AI, too, but has a great example case: ua-cam.com/video/jqBBN5vU9QA/v-deo.html Let me know how it goes!
Great video - I've been working on an Excel macro to automate the processing of large amounts of data using your method. LMK if you're interested in a demo - happy to share the code with you!
Hi. I am following your instructions but hit a snag. I don't have Pro but have a regular subscription. Under the Shared Matches with her there is no option to filter by size - from 90 - 400.
Oops! But that makes sense as it is something new I’m doing. Instead, you’ll just have to scroll down and find those matches that are from 400 down to 90 cM. (Or try the Pro Tools 😊)
@@EBAGNELL1, You can still follow the steps and go lower. The clusters will still be meaningful, but you won’t be seeing a best-case scenario of 4 clusters for 4 grandparent lines. 🙂
I only have 7 matches in this range. Though ive done my dna and have identified 119 cousin matches. This doesn't help with my grandfathers male Miller line. I can't get very far back. Onlybas far as 2xgt. Then im stuck. Any suggestions please Dana?
Yes! I would start with DNA matches who are descendants of the person you're trying to identify a father for. Choose people who are related through a different child than your line if possible. Then, work with their shared matches. I have a method I call "His, Hers, or Theirs" where I focus on the known couple. If you already know her line, you can hopefully identify some of these shared matches that are "theirs," some that are "hers," and some "mystery matches." Then, look for connections within those mystery matches! Hope this helps, and I'll make a video about it at some point.
Hi, Cathleen. The biggest thing to pay attention to is whether they are related to one or two of your grandparents. When a 1C1R is of an older generation, like in this case, they are only related to 1 of your grandparents and are fine to use. But if a 1C1R is of a younger generation, they will be related to 2 of your grandparents so I would not use them as a key match. Hope this helps!
I have a very confusing situation and unclear where to start. I have an unidentified great grandparent, would I use my Half 1st Cousins as they fall within this range and they do stem from that unidentified GGP BUT this Half 1st Cousins grandfather also matches to my family another way. The next candidate I could use to identify the unknown GGP is at 32cM.
(Note: I corrected this comment. You can use a half 1C as they only share one grandparent with you.) Hi, Faith. I would not use a half 1C as a key match - since they are related to 2 of your grandparents - but I’d still include them on your chart. And that’s a huge drop to your next potentially helpful DNA match for this unknown great grandparent. Do you have your DNA results anywhere else? If so, have you looked at matches there?
Hi Dana- Thank you so much for your response. The matches I have elsewhere will not link to the missing great grandparent. My half 1C is only related to one of my grandparents, that's why I thought it might work. I also need to tell you that I just discovered your videos. I took full advantage of Ancestry's free Pro Tools weekend and your Enhanced Shared Matches video helped me with no less than 5 puzzles. Unfortunately not this mystery GGP. ;)
I have a similar issue where I have an unknown great-grandmother on my dad's side, but I only see close 2nd or 3rd cousins on his paternal line (I know they're all from my grandfather's brother's line). The rest of my dad's matches are maternal (and I suspect part of his paternal line is a pedigree collapse into my grandmother's maternal line).
@@faithskizewski4427, I was in a hurry when I responded earlier. Oops! Yes, a half 1C should only be related to 1 of your grandparents so they are a great match to use. And I'm so glad you're enjoying the videos! only started these about 3 months ago, so it's a big learning curve for me as I become a UA-camr. But, I'm loving the journey! And it's a great way to share with others. I'm thrilled that the Pro Tools helped with 5 mysteries in one weekend! They are an incredible tool. :)
@@jennifer255, It can be difficult to work with DNA matches to solve problems when the pedigree collapse is between two parts of your tree. I'd keep working with the matches. If you aren't familiar with diagramming, you might try that. I'll make a video soon, but here's a blog post: www.danaleeds.com/visualizing_clusters_2nd_3rd_cousins/
Hi Dana so delighted you are doing this series. I am working to identify unknown maternal grandparents. When I do the Leeds Method I get 6 clusters - 2 paternal and 4 maternal. The 2 paternal groups show overlap and I'm fairly sure the 2nd group lead match is connected to my great grandmother's family (going by the surname - no response from the match) - should I merge these 2 groups? I'm also pretty sure I can identify which lines are my maternal grandparents and that the other 2 groups are leading me to the identity of my maternal great grandfather if I'm making sense. So if I merge the 3 maternal maternal groups would I be correct? This is a bit clumsy, I'm working with 2 immediate generations involving adoption/fostering. I redid my Leeds Chart along with your video. This is a great video!
Thank you! It can be difficult when you have multiple adoptions! As far as combining, my rule of thumb is “if most of the people in one color are also in the other” you can combine them. (Though you don’t have to.) So let’s say you have 6 yellows but 4 of them are also red. Well, 4 of the 6 - so most of them - are also red, so I would combine them. Whether you combine them or not, the next step is to figure out how the people in each cluster are related to each other and then how they’re related to you. You seem to already know how some of those work out, so you are trying to work with some “mystery” (or unknown) clusters. Hope this helps!
To see shared matches, you need an Ancestry Family History Membership or AncestryDNA Plus. They just had great sales for Thanksgiving, and I'm sure they'll have sales again soon.
It's nice to finally "meet" you. I kept hearing your Method since the beginning, but this is the 1st time seeing you.
@@delila_UA-cam, It’s nice to “meet” you, too! I just started this UA-cam channel about 4 months ago. It’s definitely a steep learning curve, but I’m enjoying being able to directly share videos with all of you! 😁
Hi Dana, just want to say how much a love your method. I’m a professional genealogist in Australia and specialise in DNA analysis. I use your method with almost every client and I’ve got very quick with it. It’s just simplified everything and focuses my research. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing! I love to hear that. 🥰 And you're very welcome!
Hi carokat1111. I live in Australia and have been an amateur genealogist for many decades. May I please ask how you become a professional here in Australia? Are there certain certificates or learning you must undertake?
@@traceyholt8223 Hi, there are two main ways. Take the course offered by the Society of Australian Genealogists (SAG) and become an accredited genealogist through them; or approach AAGRA, the Association of Australian Genealogists and Record Agents, and apply through their organisation. With AAGRA you have to prove your skills and understanding/training which then gets assessed. I chose AAGRA. After that it's a case of paying yearly membership fees to remain a member.
Thank you for your presentation. Instead of typing the names into your spreadsheet, you can highlight each match's name on Ancestry and then copy and paste these into your spreadsheet. Each name will then be hyperlinked - meaning it is easy to click on any name in your spreadsheet and go straight to the details of your match with them on Ancestry.
Thank you! I've started using AI to copy and paste my matches from 90-400 cM into Excel, but this doesn't perverse the hyperlink! I like that! :)
Wow that’s interesting!
I'm very excited about your channel! I've been doing my family's genealogy for 20 years and through dna we realized that my grandfather's parents were not biological. I'm starting to use your Leeds Method to sort through who my maternal great-grandparents were. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it!
Good luck! I just discovered that a different biological great-grandfather than what was in the records for a family member! And, with the enhanced shared matches, it only took me on day/night to figure out who it was! 😯There was a high match of 524, though.
Good luck! And I hope to have the next video out Monday or Tuesday.
Great guide to unraveling DNA results. Thank you
@@AndrewMartinIsHere, You’re welcome! And thank you for leaving a comment. 😊
I'm super excited about this series. I have a more complicated case but this is an amazing way to finding unknown family.
Thanks! I am, too. 😊
So glad you are putting these out there. Very information. Approach of your videos is excellent for both beginners and those who have been at this for some time.
Thanks so much! 😊
Hi Dana! I love your videos! I am hitting a brick wall on my paternal side with an unknown paternal great-grandfather and unknown parents for my paternal great-grandmother so I would need to use the method for matches that are less than 90 cM. I hope you do a video covering this situation. Blessings!
I will! In the meantime, if you have a subscription (or get a free trial) to Legacy Family Tree Webinars, you might find my "One Man, Multiple Names: A DNA-Based Case Study" useful.
I am a huge fan of your method. A couple of questions; If i only want to identify 2nd ggparents, do i expand the cm window? Or do i find the grand parent clusters then do mini leeds on each cluster until i get the great grands and then further to great great grands? Would it also be efficient to just cluster using the common ancestor identified in the thrulines and see who is related starting there? How far back can i try to go? Is there a generation cut off period?
Hi. Just to give context, im trying to find the parents of my Freedman great grandfather. Since the parent could be a slave thus difficult to find documentation, perhaps i could narrow down siblings? Its obv a mess lol
Hi! And I see your follow-up, too, and know that finding enslaved ancestors can be quite difficult.
In general, you can work on a 2x great grandparent in either way you mentioned. After you create the initial clusters, you can start adding in lower matches. There are multiple ways to do this, too. :) But, if a lower match matches some in that 400 to 90 cM range, you can assign them the same color. If they don't match anyone who already has a color, they can start a new color.
Or my preference would be to start working with whatever cluster(s) match the correct line. Then start looking at the Shared Matches of the people in this cluster. You can hopefully start dividing it into what I call "His, Hers, and Theirs." For example, if the cluster is around a set of your great grandparents, some matches will just be related to his side of the family, some to hers, and some are their descendants to "theirs."
Then, once you've identified a few matches that might help on this line, look at their shared matches...and continue the process.
Hope this helps! It's something I need to make a video about, too. :)
Thank you for the detail! Will try!
@@FreedmenParty You're welcome! :)
Hello Ms. Dana!! Thank you for this video!! May I ask a question, I’m stuck? lol.
I get to cluster three and the starred person along with some of their matches match the people in cluster two. Should I add her and everyone she matches to cluster two or leave them all as cluster three? I’m guessing I should add them to cluster two?
@@creativelife9871, Hi! Great question. My rule of thumb is, “If most of the people in one cluster are also in another, then you can combine them.” So it sounds likely you should combine them. 😊 Hope this helps! And thanks for asking!
I don´t find the Handout. Can someone explain for me where I find it, please.
Hi, Madeleine. It's in the description below the video, or you can click here: danaleeds.myflodesk.com/guide-to-the-leeds-method 😊
Hi Dana, quick question, as you know for those of us here in the US, typically our MyHeritage matches are nothing like what we find on Ancestry. Would you include those matches on your ancestry LEEDS chart or build one specifically for your MH matches? If you build one for MY how far down would you go to? And I guess this quotation would also go for the other sites including GEDmatch?
Hi! And great question. I actually keep all of my charts separate for the different testing sites. An exception would be if you are actually seeing - or "forcing" - your matches into 4 clusters for the 4 grandparent lines. You could then combine them.
When I started the Leeds Method, people often had only 7-8 matches. And it still "worked," though you wouldn't probably see all 4 lines. That's kind of where we are at on other sites.
You can go as low as you want, you'll just start seeing more and more clusters and it might be confusing depending on how well you understand the methodology.
Hope this helps!
@@DanaLeedsThanks for the feedback. Now a new question lol. Any suggestions on figuring out pedigree collapse? I'm trying to determine who my paternal great grandfather is. At first I thought it was endogamy but the more I learn I've figured out it's pedigree collapse. I have three clusters unless I go way back, but I can't figure those matches out. All I do know, now is that he was adopted. I've got almost all my closer matches placed in my tree.
@, Can I ask what you are seeing that makes you think it’s pedigree collapse? Is it just because you have 3 clusters, or is there something more?
To start, family surnames and these are all on my paternal, maternal line. BTW I'm an NPE so I never knew my birth father.
My dad's mom comes from the Hammond/Turple line, on her dad's side (my G grandparents) it's Hammond/Sortor, and on her mom's side it's Turple/Estabrook, then the Estabrook's mother was a Smith.
Originally I thought endogamy and I have lots of matches leading to the Turple/Estabrook, and with several I share fairly high numbers example 567 with a 2C1R, 327cM with another, those two are first cousins to one another. I originally thought these were double cousins so those numbers made sense, however, upon gaining access to those "double cousins" DNA matches they have a lot of Hammond and Sortor connections, none of which I have and should. These are people descending from my great grandfather's siblings lines.... This is hard to explain in text without it being a lot. I did find a couple of Turple first cousins marrying and I know that the Hammond/Sortor family and the Turple/Estabrook families were close. In fact, at one point the Turple family adopted a Hammond baby and I suspect my great grandfather may have been a "pay back" to the Turple family. I think the Hammonds may have adopted a Turple baby (my great grandfather) I have many many many connections that lead back to the Smith line (my GG Grandmother's) maternal line I suspect either a Turple and a Smith cousins had a child which resulted in my great grandfather.
Zero connections to just the Hammond/Sortor lines. And I've come across another who descend from my great grandfather and they also have no Hammond connections other than myself. And I've met those who come from my great grandfather's siblings lines and they have connections to every Hammond sibling line except my great grandfather and although they should be connecting to me they don't. Lol again it's hard to explain, plus I only have three lines when others who I am supposed double cousins with have all four great grandparents couples. I'm sorry if this didn't make sense.
Working with high endogamy cases have been easier than this lol.
@@MusicInMotion_67, Yes, it's hard to explain using just words! 😉
I followed it pretty well, though. But I am confused, as you said you were trying to identify your great-grandfather and then talked about his siblings. I'm unsure if this is your unknown line or if I got lost.
I am going to be focusing on pedigree collapse in 2025! My mom's mom's family has pedigree collapse with multiple situations of cousins marrying - both in our direct and collateral lines. As I unravel my matches, I hope it will help others, too! So stay tuned... 😊
Love this!!!
Thank you!
What if you only have 9 matches in the 90 to 400 cm range? I am trying to find the parents of my 3rd great-grandfather. Do I need to include my 4th cousins?
At 3:12 in your video, you say, "I'm going to make sure he's related to only one of my grandparents and not two." How is that possible?
Thank you for your question. I can see how that statement might be confusing. When I said 'related to only one of my grandparents,' I wasn't referring to direct descendancy from my grandparent. Instead, I was talking about being related through only one grandparental line.
For example, a DNA match might be related to me through my paternal grandmother's family line, but not through any of my other three grandparents' lines. This person could be a descendant of my grandmother's siblings, cousins, or even more distant relatives like her great-grandparents' other descendants.
The goal is to identify matches who share DNA with me exclusively through one of these four branches of my family tree, rather than matches who are related to me through multiple grandparental lines. This helps in sorting and categorizing DNA matches to specific parts of my ancestry.
Hope this helps!
Hello,
I am new to geneology. I did a Leeds chart! I have 5 clusters. I have 3 clusters that are attached to my maternal side but it does not seem that any of these matches overlap???
I am confused by this. I am trying to find out who my maternal great-grandfather is and who my maternal grandfather is.
Those 3 clusters likely do represent your maternal line, even without obvious overlap. This can happen for two main reasons:
1. You may be dealing with more distant relatives (3rd cousins rather than 2nd cousins), who share less DNA with each other
2. Some relatives, even at the same relationship level, might not share detectable DNA with each other due to random inheritance patterns
To verify the clusters:
✔Check shared matches for each person within their cluster
✔Look for repeating people, surnames, or locations
✔Focus on identifying how people within each cluster relate to each other first
The next key step is mapping relationships within each cluster. Once you understand how cluster members connect to each other, you can work backward to find your connection point. Here's a video that might help: ua-cam.com/video/pJSbPdFWevc/v-deo.html
Hope that helps! And let me know if you have other questions about working with your Leeds clusters.
@@DanaLeeds Thank you!
Great overview- thanks for the handout. Very helpful
Thank you, and you're welcome! 😊
Enjoyed your video. I'm just starting out with this DNA matching, waiting for results from Ancestry. Could you do an instructional video on how to cluster 8 groups to include the next generation of grandparents please?
How exciting!
And, it's a bit different, but I will share how you can start sorting your matches into 8 groups. 😊
Thank you for this-if I only want to concentrate on my paternal side at the moment, is the process still the same?
Yes! It would be the same. In a best-case scenario, though, you’d get 2 clusters instead of 4.
I did it, and it got a small third cluster as well which has me baffled.The asterisked third person has four matches that show up in two clusters. She is by herself.
@@mariharris4984, You might start with the other 2 clusters and then look at her. If she's matching people in both clusters, she's likely a descendant of your grandparents - or at least related to both sides.
@@DanaLeeds Thank you!
There is a secret (or two of them) in my paternal side! One set of matches-the first one-does NOT go to my paternal grandfather. Different surname. The second group goes to my paternal grandmother for the most part. The third group matches both except for the key person. A problem is my grandmother's grandma, has the same surname as the first group and is somehow tied into that line. I have done an extensive tree on them already and still can't figure it out.
My problem is I just found that my Great-grandfather died 13 years before my Grandfather was born. Can this be used the same way to find my new Great-grandfather. I know the line he is on but not sure how to narrow it down. Any help would be appreciated. I really enjoyed your show.
Hi! Yes, it could be helpful. I will be putting something similar on my UA-cam channel, but for now one of the best resources if a video I did for Legacy Family Tree Webinars called “One Man, Multiple Names: A DNA-Based Case Study.” This was about identifying an unknown great-grandfather who was living under an alias! You’ll need either a subscription or free trial to watch it.
I’m fairly sure that I am the only child of my biological parents as a couple. This would seem to make all of my matches half relationships. Would it be advisable to cut the 400-90 range in half to 200-45 or would this not work?
@@MissingaDIMM, Great question! The Leeds Method was actually created to help adoptees. The matches between 400-90 cM are usually 2nd to 3rd cousins who share sets of great-grandparents and great, great-grandparents. So go ahead and use the 400-90 cM range. Best wishes!
I'd really like to do a Leeds Chart through my 2nd great grandparents. Is that possible to accomplish? Where do I start?
When I start working with DNA matches, I break them into four clusters based on the four grandparents. Then, I work on breaking each of those into two parts-so working toward clusters of the 8 great-grandparents. And then I do it again to work toward 16 great-great-grandparents. Besides the initial four clusters, I usually focus on just one line at a time.
I've been getting a lot of questions about identifying more distant generations, so I will create some videos showing my process. :)
Thanks for the question!
Hello Dana, What is my next step, I have 9 clusters, 2 of them have no overlap. Thanks
Hi! First check to see if some of the clusters have "heavy overlap" - where most of the people in one color cluster are also in another. If you see that, you can combine them. After that, you can just start working with each cluster. Figure out how the people in a cluster are related to each other, and then how they're related to you. I know it's harder than that, but that's the process I use! 😊 Best wishes!
@@DanaLeeds Thanks
On Ancestry/MH, I only have 1 match between 90-400cM, a 2C sharing 197cM (I have about 100 matches 20cM-60cM). I haven't been able to connect any of these people to my tree yet, but can connect some to the same groups. I have 1 set of unknown great-grandparents and then 3 sets of unknown 2xgreat-grandparents. I found a tree-owner whose spouse is my 2C1R (descended from my grandmother's sister). We've made intros, but I'm still waiting for a response to some information I asked about. If I can get her to test (they're in Germany) our shared matches would be from my set of unknown great-grandparents. I feel like I am constantly circling, but can't quite find the landing spot.
Hi! Having recent ancestors from outside of the U.S. makes using these tests more difficult. You might consider paying to test at 23andMe, though I'm not sure how much that would help. And consider transferring your results - for free - to FTDNA. You never know where your closest match might have tested!
Besides that, I'd recommend doing what it sounds like you're doing - basically continuing to make clusters out of shared matches and determining how people are related to each other.
Best wishes!
If I'm trying to identify a grandparent I need to do this?
@@maryriser7836, It’s a GREAT way to help you identify an unknown grandparent! Create the clusters and figure out which ones are related to your known grandparents. Then, hopefully they’ll be one (or more) unknown clusters left. Try to figure out how the people in that cluster are related to each other. And then try to figure out how their common ancestors could be related to you. In this case, hopefully the common ancestors are the parents of your unknown grandfather. :)
I do a similar thing on the Ancestry web site itself using coloured dots. I’m not sure what benefit, if any, is gained by doing it this way. It looks like a lot more work.
Hi. I know some people color their matches online. I prefer the spreadsheet as you can see the full picture. And you can see when people are in more than one cluster, which is helpful. And, if your matches are more "complicated" - for instance te person has endogamy or pedigree collapse - doing the Leeds Method on a spreadsheet is a quicker way to see that.
But, if you've already used the dots for your matches and it's working for you, that's great! :)
I’m a professional genealogist. The Leeds Method was a game changer for me. So helpful
Hi Dana! I am trying to find a 2x great grandfather. I had my dad do his Ydna and results are done, on FamilyTreeDna but I do not know how to read the result. Would you suggest a Leeds Method for that? What would you suggest? Other UA-cam videos are confusing!
@@hmt702, Hi! A Y-DNA test is different than an autosomal test like what we see at AncestryDNA. And the Leeds Method doesn’t work for Y. It might take some time, but I’ll make a test to help people understand Y-DNA testing at FamilyTreeDNA. (And I’m glad you find my video helpful!) In the meantime, I’m going to suggest a video by my friend, Diahan Southard, who is Your DNA Guide. Here’s a link: ua-cam.com/video/qYdt0o2p85I/v-deo.htmlsi=e4U8Dcn5dgBykAbH
But, you can also continue to work with the autosomal DNA matches to identify this unknown 2x great grandfather. If you start with the Leeds Method, you will look for the cluster (or clusters) that belong to the right grandparent line. Then you try to find your highest match that is a descendant of the known great grandparent. Looking at the shared matches of that person, someone will be related to the couple (basically descendants of the couple - like you), some will be related to just his side of the family, and others will be related to just her side. I use a method I created called the His, Hers, or Theirs Method. I also need to make a video about that! But you’ll be trying to isolate those that are related to “his” side of the family.
Hope this helps! And I wish I could get the videos out more quickly :)
Just tried this method. I don't know what I did wrong. I had 9 custers. I am looking for the parents of my father's grandmother. I am using my father's dna so I thought the 90 to 400 cM would apply. I have only 16 matches in that range. I deleted anyone that showed up in two shared matches lists. Only 2 clusters had more than one person. I get that maybe I don't have enough matches, but why did I get 9 clusters? Is ther a way to combine data from different testing companies?
Hi! 16 matches should work just fine! First of all, keep the people who show up in more than one cluster. They are providing more information! (And there's not an easy way to combine multiple testing sites.)
I'd recommend this video: ua-cam.com/video/P6JYhbY26CY/v-deo.html
I'd also recommend this one, which deals with AI, too, but has a great example case: ua-cam.com/video/jqBBN5vU9QA/v-deo.html
Let me know how it goes!
Great video - I've been working on an Excel macro to automate the processing of large amounts of data using your method. LMK if you're interested in a demo - happy to share the code with you!
Thank you! And, sure, I'd love to take a look. You can email me at drleeds@sbcglobal.net
Hi. I am following your instructions but hit a snag. I don't have Pro but have a regular subscription. Under the Shared Matches with her there is no option to filter by size - from 90 - 400.
Oops! But that makes sense as it is something new I’m doing. Instead, you’ll just have to scroll down and find those matches that are from 400 down to 90 cM. (Or try the Pro Tools 😊)
@@DanaLeeds Thanks. More labor intensive but that's what I've started to do.
Wow they eliminated that filter. Ancestry officially jumped the shark
@@donquique1@donquique1, I use AncestryDNA daily, so I find the subscription and even Pro Tools worth it.
What do you do if you don’t have enough 2/3 cousins or 2c1xr?
@@EBAGNELL1, You can still follow the steps and go lower. The clusters will still be meaningful, but you won’t be seeing a best-case scenario of 4 clusters for 4 grandparent lines. 🙂
@@DanaLeeds thank you
I only have 7 matches in this range. Though ive done my dna and have identified 119 cousin matches. This doesn't help with my grandfathers male Miller line. I can't get very far back. Onlybas far as 2xgt. Then im stuck. Any suggestions please Dana?
Yes! I would start with DNA matches who are descendants of the person you're trying to identify a father for. Choose people who are related through a different child than your line if possible. Then, work with their shared matches.
I have a method I call "His, Hers, or Theirs" where I focus on the known couple. If you already know her line, you can hopefully identify some of these shared matches that are "theirs," some that are "hers," and some "mystery matches." Then, look for connections within those mystery matches!
Hope this helps, and I'll make a video about it at some point.
So what about including 1C1R? The match is below 400 but I trace back to the same pair of my great-grandparents that are his grandparents.
Hi, Cathleen. The biggest thing to pay attention to is whether they are related to one or two of your grandparents. When a 1C1R is of an older generation, like in this case, they are only related to 1 of your grandparents and are fine to use. But if a 1C1R is of a younger generation, they will be related to 2 of your grandparents so I would not use them as a key match. Hope this helps!
I have a very confusing situation and unclear where to start. I have an unidentified great grandparent, would I use my Half 1st Cousins as they fall within this range and they do stem from that unidentified GGP BUT this Half 1st Cousins grandfather also matches to my family another way. The next candidate I could use to identify the unknown GGP is at 32cM.
(Note: I corrected this comment. You can use a half 1C as they only share one grandparent with you.)
Hi, Faith. I would not use a half 1C as a key match - since they are related to 2 of your grandparents - but I’d still include them on your chart. And that’s a huge drop to your next potentially helpful DNA match for this unknown great grandparent. Do you have your DNA results anywhere else? If so, have you looked at matches there?
Hi Dana- Thank you so much for your response. The matches I have elsewhere will not link to the missing great grandparent. My half 1C is only related to one of my grandparents, that's why I thought it might work. I also need to tell you that I just discovered your videos. I took full advantage of Ancestry's free Pro Tools weekend and your Enhanced Shared Matches video helped me with no less than 5 puzzles. Unfortunately not this mystery GGP. ;)
I have a similar issue where I have an unknown great-grandmother on my dad's side, but I only see close 2nd or 3rd cousins on his paternal line (I know they're all from my grandfather's brother's line). The rest of my dad's matches are maternal (and I suspect part of his paternal line is a pedigree collapse into my grandmother's maternal line).
@@faithskizewski4427, I was in a hurry when I responded earlier. Oops! Yes, a half 1C should only be related to 1 of your grandparents so they are a great match to use.
And I'm so glad you're enjoying the videos! only started these about 3 months ago, so it's a big learning curve for me as I become a UA-camr. But, I'm loving the journey! And it's a great way to share with others.
I'm thrilled that the Pro Tools helped with 5 mysteries in one weekend! They are an incredible tool. :)
@@jennifer255, It can be difficult to work with DNA matches to solve problems when the pedigree collapse is between two parts of your tree. I'd keep working with the matches. If you aren't familiar with diagramming, you might try that. I'll make a video soon, but here's a blog post: www.danaleeds.com/visualizing_clusters_2nd_3rd_cousins/
Hi Dana so delighted you are doing this series. I am working to identify unknown maternal grandparents. When I do the Leeds Method I get 6 clusters - 2 paternal and 4 maternal. The 2 paternal groups show overlap and I'm fairly sure the 2nd group lead match is connected to my great grandmother's family (going by the surname - no response from the match) - should I merge these 2 groups? I'm also pretty sure I can identify which lines are my maternal grandparents and that the other 2 groups are leading me to the identity of my maternal great grandfather if I'm making sense. So if I merge the 3 maternal maternal groups would I be correct? This is a bit clumsy, I'm working with 2 immediate generations involving adoption/fostering. I redid my Leeds Chart along with your video. This is a great video!
Thank you!
It can be difficult when you have multiple adoptions! As far as combining, my rule of thumb is “if most of the people in one color are also in the other” you can combine them. (Though you don’t have to.) So let’s say you have 6 yellows but 4 of them are also red. Well, 4 of the 6 - so most of them - are also red, so I would combine them. Whether you combine them or not, the next step is to figure out how the people in each cluster are related to each other and then how they’re related to you. You seem to already know how some of those work out, so you are trying to work with some “mystery” (or unknown) clusters.
Hope this helps!
I have very, very few people who have tested here in the UK 🇬🇧 should I go lower than 90 cms? This is like learning a foreign language 😅
Hi! First, try without going lower and see what kind of clusters you get. Then go ahead and go lower. Let me know how it goes!
Thank you @@DanaLeeds
Method is nice but cannot be done on ancestry anymore unless you are willing to pay.
To see shared matches, you need an Ancestry Family History Membership or AncestryDNA Plus. They just had great sales for Thanksgiving, and I'm sure they'll have sales again soon.