Great explanation! The word choice of “geometrically reduce” also immediately stood out to me, I kind of want to see a full statistical analysis of opening hands that generate 5+ mana turn two now!
@@itsAnnaMargaret to be fair - that is what I thought this video was going to do :) --- how many opening hands get to 5+ mana by turn 2 pre and post ban etc ;)
Sol Ring is the last card that we as players get to experience "an explosive turn" outside of treasures now. It's inexpensive ramp and we ALL have them. So the playing opportunity is equal. Wizards said time and time again they will never ban a Sol Ring, a card that doesn't need banning. It's a card so ubiquitous with commander that it would be like banning commanders. You can't. Sol Ring is the one card we have that showcases Wizard's isn't ENTIRELY greedy. It's a card game, we all pay taxes and life is a slog at times, at least have some freedom and ONE FREE COLORESS EXTRA MANA and have some fun. So it doesn't defy physics, it is the one break we get from the natural unfair mechanics of magic and the mental gymnastics a game of magic can take. It's one card we actually need. The game has never not had a Sol Ring as well. End random rant lol. Good day sir.
@@Nex41354 in the ban announcement the RC said: “Sol Ring is the iconic card of the format, and it's sufficiently tied to the identity of the format that it defies the laws of physics in a way that no other card does.” So it seems like they agree with you!! As a physicist, I think the use of “breaks the laws of physics” is funny and interesting and I might want to chat about that phrase specifically, not necessarily why it should or shouldn’t be banned.
By 'defying the laws of physics' I took that to be a cheeky reference to 'what goes up must come down', and how Sol Ring usage instead just keeps going up up and up with each new deck that's built. It doesn't wax and wane, it just keeps expanding.
Another Ma(th)gic the Gathering video? Yessss! This is an interesting insight into this ban announcement, and I’m here for it. Thanks for putting in the work! Also I’m thinking Sol Ring breaks the first law of thermodynamics, but that’s just conjecture
I interpreted "geometrically reduces" as a probability thing, the hypergeometric distribution describes k successes in n draws where a sucess is getting an object out of a set K within a larger set N For fixed k and n they reduce the probability by restricting how large K can be (K being the number of fast mana/explosive start enablers, N being the whole deck) Alternatively it can refer to the geometric distribution of games where someone has an explosive start, where by lowering the probability of explosive starts (see previous paragraph), the number of games needed to encounter someone having an explosive start is also increased, i.e. the rate of explosive starts is reduced via this geometric distribution I don't know nearly enough about algebraic geometry to comment on that aspect you bring up though
Ooooo this is a super interesting comment! Since they used the phrase pretty loosely I think your interpretation of what they meant is super valid! I‘ll have to think about it! I think it’s super fun that use of math terms in MTG ban announcements can lead to such discussions!
I thought they were just using geometric in a geometric vs arithmetic / quadratic vs linear sense I did not actually think this hard about it this is amazing. Also I think I would've actually gone thru and finished my algebraic geometry degree had I known I could make youtube videos about a children's card game with it XD
I knew when I played that commander game with you and Gavin at CommandFest LA, I would never look at this card game from my childhood the same again. ❤❤❤
I took "geometrically reduces" to mean that each mulligan you are willing to take greatly increases your chance of having a busted start. That means it was correct to throw back a perfectly good hand because it wasn't a totally busted hand in a lot of cases. I think that, for quite a lot of decks, that is now not the case! So, in a way, they've improved your games before they even began, because people will be encouraged to mulligan less often.
You give the basic tenets of linear algebra here without actually using that to determine the numbers. I am unconvinced linear algebra is required here, but instead combinatorics seems like the better branch of math to utilize. "Geometric" can often refer to equations that involve an exponent, such as squared or cubed, which would apply here to the combinatorics involved in determining the probability of drawing a hand capable of generating 5 mana on turn 2. The presence of exponents in the binomial theorem explain the word "geometric" in the calculations here to determine the probability of drawing an opening hand that meets their upper bound on mana generation.
I actually didn’t talk about linear algebra! (But I love linear algebra) Although that is definitely a valid approach! The real question here of whether particular cards lead to explosive mana ramp I think can be approached in a number of ways- it can even be addressed in more of a stats paradigm. The RC used this *specific* language: “geometrically reduces”. And this video is an explanation of what that term means and how it *could* relate to what they are trying to say by talking about an interesting higher level math concept. I pointedly am not actually addressing the answer to the question here although I am interested in maybe doing some math for a follow up video and love seeing your thoughts here!
I really don't understand these bans. The philosophy behind them is instantly negated with their philosophy on why Sol Ring has plot armor. Who cares if someone has a flashy start every once in awhile? People run infinite combos that can be just as explosive and lead to "non-slower paced games"
@@maidenless_tarnished it’s actually a pretty cohesive philosophy. The fast mana that was banned are all designed-for-commander (crypt’s story is a little more complicated but it’s still in this boat) cards. Sol ring is from alpha and it’s been a part of the magic story the whole time. There is enormous support for reducing or eliminating commander centric designs. These cards represent the worst offenders in that category. By removing just the commander centric designs, you don’t eliminate fast starts (which was not their goal), you just make them less likely (their stated goal), while addressing outcry against unpopular commander first designs. If these were all $5 cards, this would be a universally loved move. Of course, the RC has no control over prices.
So ban sol ring and any mana rock or ability etc that costs 1 or0. If not, hypocrisy. In addition look at the cards they sold off prior. Lastly WOTC promoted how Mana vault was a commander staple, bait and switch.
I definitely took a financial hit as well. My gut reaction was to feel really sad about it, but I cope best with humor so my second thought was on their use of math and physics terms in the announcement. I’m hoping that this can make people smile
Mana Crypt has often been regarded as one of the safest cards to spend money on outside of the reserved list. Similar to force of will, etc. These are format defining cards.
I agree. I have three mana crypts. One for each of my CEDH decks. Hoping they make a cedh ban list soon because otherwise I feel nothing is safe. This ban took away a lot of my faith in my investments. My grim monolith and vaults might be next.
I comment on that towards the end of the video actually! I think a lot of people online agree with you. By the RCs rationale for the other bans Sol Ring would also be banned, but they comment that Sol Ring a notable exception. They specifically say it “breaks the laws of physics” which is a little odd but gets their point across I guess
You really don't need to label your video with this "geometric" smart vibe--like, yeah, less fast and free mana equals math of not fast and free anymore.
I would normally agree with you that the excessive use of “math” terms when the video isn’t about math would be misleading, but rather than focusing on the bans, to do kinda hyperfixate on their use of a math term in their announcement… so I felt like it was important to let people know that’s what I’m actually talking about!
@@MalcIgg If that's the case they could have just enacted a rule regarding fast mana. For example impose deckbuilding restrictions that only allow you to play 1 zero cost mana rock in your deck. They should've adopted a points system for these busted high power cards like Canadian Highlander
@@xeper9458 they did not want to remove all of these cards or ban fast mana entirely, just remove the consistency of running multiple of them. The goal was not a master rule but a deckbuilding limiter.
@@unfrogettable9495 Ok sure but then you can't just pick a few and justify the fact that you left all the other offenders. Now all that has been done is you have shifted the priority to those other cards which take the place of the banned, not to mention royally pissed off a ton of people
The commander rules committee is garbage, grim monolith, time twister and cradle still perfectly legal, these bans are stupid and make it unsafe to spend any real money playing this game.
Game piece army soldier detected. No they are not just game pieces they are COLLECTIBLE trading cards. If they aren't worth anything Wotc can't charge the exorbitant prices for cardboard anymore
I’m also really curious if this will lead to cedh splintering into its own format with a separate ban list. My cedh decks were definitely hit hard with these bans
I hope so, but since the failed cEDH RC after Jim Lepage tweeted that the RC doesn’t care about cEDH… it doesn’t look super rosy. Big sad today. I hope the uproar forces them to walk back the JLo and Crypt bans.
Great explanation! The word choice of “geometrically reduce” also immediately stood out to me, I kind of want to see a full statistical analysis of opening hands that generate 5+ mana turn two now!
That’s a really interesting question! Maybe I’ll need a follow up video!
@@itsAnnaMargaret to be fair - that is what I thought this video was going to do :) --- how many opening hands get to 5+ mana by turn 2 pre and post ban etc ;)
Looking foward to the sol ring defying physics video
Don’t worry. @giraffanat and I have plans!
Sol Ring is the last card that we as players get to experience "an explosive turn" outside of treasures now. It's inexpensive ramp and we ALL have them. So the playing opportunity is equal. Wizards said time and time again they will never ban a Sol Ring, a card that doesn't need banning. It's a card so ubiquitous with commander that it would be like banning commanders. You can't. Sol Ring is the one card we have that showcases Wizard's isn't ENTIRELY greedy. It's a card game, we all pay taxes and life is a slog at times, at least have some freedom and ONE FREE COLORESS EXTRA MANA and have some fun. So it doesn't defy physics, it is the one break we get from the natural unfair mechanics of magic and the mental gymnastics a game of magic can take. It's one card we actually need. The game has never not had a Sol Ring as well. End random rant lol. Good day sir.
@@Nex41354 Should 1000% still be banned lol. Makes for the most inconsistent gameplay ever.
@@Nex41354 in the ban announcement the RC said: “Sol Ring is the iconic card of the format, and it's sufficiently tied to the identity of the format that it defies the laws of physics in a way that no other card does.” So it seems like they agree with you!! As a physicist, I think the use of “breaks the laws of physics” is funny and interesting and I might want to chat about that phrase specifically, not necessarily why it should or shouldn’t be banned.
By 'defying the laws of physics' I took that to be a cheeky reference to 'what goes up must come down', and how Sol Ring usage instead just keeps going up up and up with each new deck that's built.
It doesn't wax and wane, it just keeps expanding.
I love this breakdown of that specific language of the announcement. Fun video, though we are bummed with the bans.
I’m honestly also pretty bummed - but also easily distracted by math/physics references 😅
Another Ma(th)gic the Gathering video? Yessss! This is an interesting insight into this ban announcement, and I’m here for it. Thanks for putting in the work! Also I’m thinking Sol Ring breaks the first law of thermodynamics, but that’s just conjecture
I interpreted "geometrically reduces" as a probability thing, the hypergeometric distribution describes k successes in n draws where a sucess is getting an object out of a set K within a larger set N
For fixed k and n they reduce the probability by restricting how large K can be (K being the number of fast mana/explosive start enablers, N being the whole deck)
Alternatively it can refer to the geometric distribution of games where someone has an explosive start, where by lowering the probability of explosive starts (see previous paragraph), the number of games needed to encounter someone having an explosive start is also increased, i.e. the rate of explosive starts is reduced via this geometric distribution
I don't know nearly enough about algebraic geometry to comment on that aspect you bring up though
Ooooo this is a super interesting comment! Since they used the phrase pretty loosely I think your interpretation of what they meant is super valid! I‘ll have to think about it! I think it’s super fun that use of math terms in MTG ban announcements can lead to such discussions!
Inquiring minds NEED TO KNOW HOW SOL RING DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
We demand an explanation 😂
I actually have a funny plan… 😉
I thought they were just using geometric in a geometric vs arithmetic / quadratic vs linear sense I did not actually think this hard about it this is amazing.
Also I think I would've actually gone thru and finished my algebraic geometry degree had I known I could make youtube videos about a children's card game with it XD
This is one of the few moments I get to use my physics degree as a content creator lol
Great video! I look forward to reading your future thesis on how sol ring breaks the laws of physics.
Haha @giraffanat and I have PLANS!
Learn something new everyday! Though I describe my deckbuilding technique as the sound of hammering and buzzsaws, so i appreciate the handholding!
Loved the video Anna! Still waiting for Sol Ring to hit 88MPH
I knew when I played that commander game with you and Gavin at CommandFest LA, I would never look at this card game from my childhood the same again. ❤❤❤
This was produced pretty quickly for a Monday, well done!
I would double like this video if I could! You enthusiasm is charming and refreshing! Thank you for increasing the positivity on the internet!
Dude you literally have the absolute nicest and funny energy omg great video
putting the cards in a mini trash can absolutely sent me to the moon 😂😂😂
Hahaha I was hoping people would like it! I adore my tiny trashcan!
You are pretty skilled at presenting, the hand gestures are on point!
This is a really good take.
The rc is a joke now, ban cards that break the format, thats it thats the ban list. Otherwise its a bad ban list
I took "geometrically reduces" to mean that each mulligan you are willing to take greatly increases your chance of having a busted start. That means it was correct to throw back a perfectly good hand because it wasn't a totally busted hand in a lot of cases. I think that, for quite a lot of decks, that is now not the case! So, in a way, they've improved your games before they even began, because people will be encouraged to mulligan less often.
You give the basic tenets of linear algebra here without actually using that to determine the numbers. I am unconvinced linear algebra is required here, but instead combinatorics seems like the better branch of math to utilize. "Geometric" can often refer to equations that involve an exponent, such as squared or cubed, which would apply here to the combinatorics involved in determining the probability of drawing a hand capable of generating 5 mana on turn 2. The presence of exponents in the binomial theorem explain the word "geometric" in the calculations here to determine the probability of drawing an opening hand that meets their upper bound on mana generation.
I actually didn’t talk about linear algebra! (But I love linear algebra) Although that is definitely a valid approach! The real question here of whether particular cards lead to explosive mana ramp I think can be approached in a number of ways- it can even be addressed in more of a stats paradigm. The RC used this *specific* language: “geometrically reduces”. And this video is an explanation of what that term means and how it *could* relate to what they are trying to say by talking about an interesting higher level math concept. I pointedly am not actually addressing the answer to the question here although I am interested in maybe doing some math for a follow up video and love seeing your thoughts here!
Sol rring defys the laws of physics when i throw it at my friend tims head faster then light cus he cant open it that many times
I need a trashcan like that! Great vid!
I'm obsessed with my tiny trashcan!
I wish more people played like a Timmy. It was the best decision i ever made was to become a Timmy.
Sol ring? Magic invalidates the laws of physics
Honestly your comment made me laugh out loud in a coffee shop 😂
the tiny trashcan 😂😂😂😂😂
I really don't understand these bans. The philosophy behind them is instantly negated with their philosophy on why Sol Ring has plot armor. Who cares if someone has a flashy start every once in awhile? People run infinite combos that can be just as explosive and lead to "non-slower paced games"
@@maidenless_tarnished it’s actually a pretty cohesive philosophy. The fast mana that was banned are all designed-for-commander (crypt’s story is a little more complicated but it’s still in this boat) cards. Sol ring is from alpha and it’s been a part of the magic story the whole time. There is enormous support for reducing or eliminating commander centric designs. These cards represent the worst offenders in that category. By removing just the commander centric designs, you don’t eliminate fast starts (which was not their goal), you just make them less likely (their stated goal), while addressing outcry against unpopular commander first designs. If these were all $5 cards, this would be a universally loved move. Of course, the RC has no control over prices.
So ban sol ring and any mana rock or ability etc that costs 1 or0. If not, hypocrisy. In addition look at the cards they sold off prior. Lastly WOTC promoted how Mana vault was a commander staple, bait and switch.
Reduce geometrically your wallet size.😂
They single handily destroyed peoples collections worth hundreds to thousands with this and is pretty messed up
I definitely took a financial hit as well. My gut reaction was to feel really sad about it, but I cope best with humor so my second thought was on their use of math and physics terms in the announcement. I’m hoping that this can make people smile
If a few overpriced cards getting banned destroys someone's collection that collection must have sucked in the first place
Mana Crypt has often been regarded as one of the safest cards to spend money on outside of the reserved list. Similar to force of will, etc. These are format defining cards.
I agree. I have three mana crypts. One for each of my CEDH decks. Hoping they make a cedh ban list soon because otherwise I feel nothing is safe. This ban took away a lot of my faith in my investments. My grim monolith and vaults might be next.
@@itsAnnaMargaret Your video was great and funny. It brightens what was a dim day in magic
If this was the actual reason they would have banned sol ring, this is just bs
Apparently their goal was to piss everyone who onws theses cards off and hurt the game because that's what they did
@@xeper9458 can you tell the judge, where they touched you? 🤣
I comment on that towards the end of the video actually! I think a lot of people online agree with you. By the RCs rationale for the other bans Sol Ring would also be banned, but they comment that Sol Ring a notable exception. They specifically say it “breaks the laws of physics” which is a little odd but gets their point across I guess
They would never be allowed to. But hey man if you are so keen on it why don’t you try? See how well it works out for you 😂.
You really don't need to label your video with this "geometric" smart vibe--like, yeah, less fast and free mana equals math of not fast and free anymore.
I would normally agree with you that the excessive use of “math” terms when the video isn’t about math would be misleading, but rather than focusing on the bans, to do kinda hyperfixate on their use of a math term in their announcement… so I felt like it was important to let people know that’s what I’m actually talking about!
I'm not sure how they have twisted their brains to accept that lotus and crypt are too busted but sol ring, LED, and mana vault = fair and balanced.
the point is to just reduce the number of busted cards - so dropping the probability of a monster opening
@@MalcIgg If that's the case they could have just enacted a rule regarding fast mana. For example impose deckbuilding restrictions that only allow you to play 1 zero cost mana rock in your deck. They should've adopted a points system for these busted high power cards like Canadian Highlander
@@xeper9458 they did not want to remove all of these cards or ban fast mana entirely, just remove the consistency of running multiple of them. The goal was not a master rule but a deckbuilding limiter.
@@unfrogettable9495 Ok sure but then you can't just pick a few and justify the fact that you left all the other offenders. Now all that has been done is you have shifted the priority to those other cards which take the place of the banned, not to mention royally pissed off a ton of people
@@xeper9458That would be miserable to try and work out logistically. No way you could do it.
Burgeoning should also be banned by their logic.
Ah yes, the explosive 5 land opening hand. Menace of commander tables everywhere 😉
Awesome video & trash can!
The commander rules committee is garbage, grim monolith, time twister and cradle still perfectly legal, these bans are stupid and make it unsafe to spend any real money playing this game.
Your salt sustains me.
If you lost $10k from this ban, time to sell your cards and invest in something else.
Cards are game pieces, not investment portfolios.
Game piece army soldier detected. No they are not just game pieces they are COLLECTIBLE trading cards. If they aren't worth anything Wotc can't charge the exorbitant prices for cardboard anymore
@@xeper9458 from the mouth of Garfield - cards shouldn't be more than $20 or so
stupid bans. a lot of people lost a lot of hard earned cardboard value today. cedh needs it’s own RC.
I’m also really curious if this will lead to cedh splintering into its own format with a separate ban list. My cedh decks were definitely hit hard with these bans
I hope so, but since the failed cEDH RC after Jim Lepage tweeted that the RC doesn’t care about cEDH… it doesn’t look super rosy. Big sad today. I hope the uproar forces them to walk back the JLo and Crypt bans.
Nobody needs to play with these 4 cards anyways. These should’ve been banned years ago
I agree they should’ve banned Nadu in design.
2:37 WAS THAT PARAVIEW???
YES!!! Shout out to open source visualization software!
@@itsAnnaMargaret YES! scientific viz for the win!