A possible video idea: discuss the tropes used in Daisy Darker and why you like/dislike it while providing books that were successful that used Daisy Darker's final twist and others that weren't.
this just further confirms our twin status because i HATED rock paper scissors and DNFed daisy darker and i have all the same thoughts that you did lmao
That ending can work, but you have to set it up well. Space to, hopefully, hide spoiler for 20+ year-old movie I think The Others pulled it off by being a ghost story.
The internment camp that he was in is near my hometown in AR, and I was an ADULT before I knew anything about this history in my home state. I’ve bought this book for my teens and they loved it!
I just finished Rebecca, which has been on my "classics" TBR for years. I gave it 5 stars. I loved it! There are of course a few cringe moments as far as societal views, but I do believe authors from so long ago deserve some grace for not being modern because they ... aren't
I really enjoyed the rant at the end coupled with the cheery Jingle Bells tune. Also loved Legends & Lattes. I'm here for the cozy SFF movement that seems to be happening.
Oh! I just loved Alan Rickman, young or old!!! He was such a kind man. I received a lovely thank you note from him many years ago after I sent him something.
I read Legends & Lattes in November as well and it was my favorite of the month. I loved all of the characters, but Thimble was my favorite as well & the descriptions of the baked goods he was baking were amazing!
I agree that my least favorite part of the celestial kingdoms duology was the character work for our lead. But I actually really loved the pacing, it all kind of reminded me of telenovella dramas and the twist and turns that happen there and when I talked to Tammie its apparently paced very similarly to c dramas so I do think the pacing was less a debut author mistake and more intentional and just not something we are use to in western fantasy, but I also get why that pacing would still be jarring and not fun to consume for some people. For me its just a solid 4 star fantasy with some elements I find cozy
@@bookslikewhoa Another quick note is that DotMG is based on Wuxia, which means Martial Heroes, as is a genre of Traditional Chinese dramas. The pacing of these 40+ episode series is very off, and if you've never watched and enjoyed one, reading one is probably going to seem really off to you. I'm a pacing freak and I normally hate things that are slow, but I love these chinese dramas so much. If you ever want to there is a website called Viki that allows you to watch some of the dramas for free with ads. You might be able to see if it was the writing style for you or if it's just 100% not the genre for you. For me I went into the book knowing what I was going to get lol.
Sorry regarding the ending of Daisy Darker! I usually write off authors completely who have put me through dumb endings like that. Speaking of the isolated closed circle mystery trope, have you seen Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery? I think it will be on Netflix later this month so would love your thoughts on it when it does hit streaming :)
Thank you for reading ‘Daisy Darker’ so we don’t have to - LOL! I am not a big mystery reader, but was debating whether or not to put this on my TBR. Thank you for warning us to not bother😅
I finally read Daisy Darker so I could come back and see your rant...lol. I so totally agree with your anger at the ending! I ended up giving it two stars as I was pretty bored, I guess some things about the ending, but that one thing really was just...ugh. I texted my friend and I was like on no no no that isn't what she is doing... :( Your rant cracks me up because I am so with you!
Came in hard at the end with the spoilers section- loved it, and me too!!! So glad I borrowed this one from the library and didn't waste a single penny on it.
I believe in the US, the feminist movement was powered by Quakers and other minority protestant religious groups with a strong basis in the arts, such as writing and painting. I thought a lot of the funding for the women's "vote" was powered by pro-prohibition because alcoholism and its massive negative affect on the average family unit at the time. Many lower class women entered unwillingly into the workforce for much less pay and safety rights in the factories during the industrial revolution, and a lot of that was blamed on male alcoholism. I think there was also roots in men just being away at war and returning home dead, too damaged or traumatized to function, but also because women realized in this time that they could be self-sufficient with rights and many in fact enjoyed the autonomy free from men. The evangelical mindset did have a strong hand in both of sides of pro- and anti-feminism. There was also sort of pro-feminism artistic renaissance during this time that really shaped Christian thinking at the time, as well as the emergence of the middle class that played a part. There were even more moving parts than that really, I think. There was just a lot of factors and moving parts of feminism in both the US and Britain, honestly.
This is so interesting, thank you for writing this! I’d love to read a historical fiction about this paragraph exactly. I wanted to add, I learned in the last few years another reason for women pushing for the vote was because of child labor; children working on farms, not going to school past a certain age. That put so much into perspective for me. I had always thought about the importance of women having the right and the freedoms to vote, that was the first time I started thinking about what their votes would be for, what changes that would make. I realized of course before that all those votes would shift something, but it just opened up a lot more for me to think about. On a side note even the history of PE in this country is interesting..if my research is correct it has to do with going to war someday, that’s why it was so uniform, it does play out in a military way when you think of it. Although there have been changes in some schools in recent years in how PE is done. Thanks again for this thoughtful comment.
@Gabriel The Magolor Main 👁 I have done a lot of personal reading and research on the history of feminism. You are right in that expectations about education were changing, and that was seen amongst feminist groups as well. Especially when it came to child labor laws. I think the abandonment of feudlist mindsets played a part in Britain as well. Education was no longer being viewed as exclusive to the upper classes, and that I do think was seen in protestant religious groups pretty strongly. The idea that all people should be able to read and understand the bible in a more profound way, including women, was a defining protestant value. Turns out once people learn to read, they developed all sorts of radical ideas for the time like feminism. There was, it seems to me, no one social class or religious group that contributed, but them all working together that really pushed the feminist wave in the late 1900s and 1920s. There was a serious rubber band effect though in the 30s through 50s that led to the next wave of feminism in the 60s and 70s in the US. I admit, I only know about White Feminism in the US and some British feminist history, really. I'd like to know more about feminism amongst other races, as well as outside the British and US.
Yes, it's definitely fair to say the origins of feminism were multifactoral! I was just speaking on the fly about one of those elements, but yes, evangelicals were definitely influential on both sides the debate in both the US & UK, though they definitely move to the "anti" camp by the turn of the 19th century with the rise of fundamentalism, which was defined in large part by its opposition to the "new woman" and flappers. My fav book on this topic is Gender & Fundamentalism, 1875 to Present by Bendroth
High Church in England is much more connected to how close to Catholicism and low Church is much more stripped back nearer to the puritans but puritans as they were after the English Civil Wars. Evangelism is a whole other stream in the UK and whilst There are connections within Anglican churches I would saythat there are different oversight authorities. Though at the time of Trollope I would assume that the space between the two wouldn't be quite as distinct as They are today.
Yes, in this period, the evangelicals were much more incorporated into the low church vs. branching outside of Anglicanism. That definitely changed in the 20th century (which was also a trend in the US - evangelicals were in the "mainline" Prostestant denominations thru the 19th century but then start splintering more and more into their own branches of the denominations as time went on, esp. after the American civil war). But totally agree that today conflating evangelicalism with the low church would not be a fair assumption!
I was all set to comiserate with you regarding hatred of Daisy Darker when I realized I had not read it, I was thinking of The House Across the Lake, which has an ending that seemed like a total cheat on par with "it was all a dream."
Spoiler response to Daisy darker: so far, you are the only person on UA-cam who agreed with me about the ending. Not only the twist, I predicted Trixie was a part of this. Nana set her great granddaughter up to be found guilty for her entire family's deaths!!!! I think authors keep rewriting "and then there were none" because of the open ending.
I enjoyed this video so much and have been waiting for your DD rant since you mentioned your dislike for the book on an earlier video!! Your church politics discussion was really interesting and I’d love to hear more in a video essay! Sounds like others found this topic very intriguing, too!! Happy reading!!
Finally someone who hated Daisy Darker as much as I did!! I thought I was the only one who didn’t like the writing with all the metaphors that were trying too hard to be deep. I was wondering if I should give Alice Feeney another shot but now I’m thinking maybe not.
I haven’t read Doctor Thorne, but I’ve seen an adaptation several times and I LOVE it!!! It has me wanting to read all the books but I haven’t gotten there yet.
Your reaction to Barchester Towers made me so happy! Mrs. Proudie is one of my favorite characters in the whole series because she is SO over the top. I wanted to slap her so bad whenever she appeared. Please make the rest of the series a priority because the final book brings together many of the characters in the previous books and is such a satisfying conclusion to the series.
You are such a cutie crack up! Not feeling any of these and L&L just stopped me dead with title. Hear nothing but good about it but nope. Decided to branch out try something new so joined Pop Sugar Challenge and going to start book journal. Will say PSC has many INTENSE peeps! For me reading is pleasant escape relax tend to avoid becoming to TECH focused because then it starts to seem like yet ANOTHER work project. Not so much with PSC. They are ON IT! So for a minute I shall continue as paper&pen outlier rather than well oiled machine. Also quite surprised the INTENSE REQUIREMENTS for PROPER words POV. Example issues on use of words Fat Queer Disabled, etc. Assumption was those were loaded trigger words and peeps using them need to be disciplined or I shall leave etc. Switch to DECAF babee guurrl and relax!. Had to start blocking peeps immediately again to decrease criticism++ and flame throwing.
I have been waiting for your Daisy Darker rant... I read it and enjoyed but I am new to the Thriller/Mystery genre. But definitely a polarizing ending - anytime you pull in a supernatural element and people aren't ready for it...
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
I loved Legends and Lattes. The Inn Keeper Chronicles are an under-rated (in my opinion) series. Cozy sci-fi romance is the best definition for it. I was not aware you had a podcast for it. I will be watching those now that I know they're a thing. 😊 I have enjoyed many a Honey Phillips paranormal romp. Her stuff is just full of monster 👾 goodness. Patting myself on the back for the auto-pass on Daughter of the Moon Goddess. 👏 When something is that popular on Book Tube and Tik Tok it trips warning ⚠ bells and red 🚩 for me. And I'm generally correct. Alice Feeney is the female version of Riley Sager. All the over writing, "twisty like an M Night Shyamalan-in that unless you're in a coma you see it coming from a mile away", with poor character and plot development. Lazy writing is their true Hallmark; sadly, I've found that to be the case with the vast majority of popular authors. (Emily Henry, James Patterson, Sarah J Maas, Cassandra Clare, Ali Hazelwood, CoHo- just to name a few serial offenders 😏)
Yessssss every time you’ve mentioned wanting to read Daisy Darker I have been on my tip toes waiting for you to hate it. I had a full body jolt when I got to the ending like wtfffff
I picked Doctor Thorne as a book club pick and hearing you talk about Barchester Towers is confirming that I want to read the first 2 before I pick it up! I was also REALLY disappointed in Daughter of the Moon Goddess! it felt so mediocre to me. Rather than feeling like YA, to me it read more like a fantasy book that thinks because it is Serious Adult Fantasy it doesn't have to do good character and plot work - so similar feeling but from a different direction? lol truly the worst twist!!!! wow.
Your discussion about church politics was insightful - it was always something I struggled to understand in Lit classes at Uni because I wasn’t raised in the Catholic/Christian religion. Sadly, most (if not all) “classics” from British authors in a certain time period almost all had some comparisons/dichotomies relating to the Church…. It was just lost on me 😣 The class you taught would’ve probably helped me immensely!
It's definitely "of its time" and makes it harder to follow if you've not had the context explained! It would be like if someone in 150 years from now was expected to catch references to contemporary worship music debates but they aren't even Christians in their own time period, much less 150 years ago :/
New viewer to your channel and I’m enjoying your content. Thank you ❤ I was NOT going to read Daisy Darker. I knew that Alice Feeney’s writing was not for me. Two seconds into the spoiler and now I have to read it! I will not enjoy it, it will not be fun for me, but I have to.
Ooh I wanna read the ABCs of Socialism!! I read Rock Paper Scissors earlier this year and enjoyed it, but it wasn't great... I'm still sorta curious about Daisy Darker lol OMG that twist though 😂
I completely agree about the overwrought prose in Daisy Darker. Initially, I was really not enjoying that part of it but I was on board with the plot, setting, atmosphere. But then the ending made me more annoyed by the prose because it didn't fit the maturity of the pov character for (spoiler reasons.)
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
I can definitely see how Alice Feeney's prose can be really annoying. I think the audiobook narration helped me like Daisy Darker more. I also figured out the twist you ranted at the end about 20-25% into the book, but I actually didn't mind it. I will say at least the book foreshadows the ending pretty clearly because when i figured it out, the text made it very obvious that my theory was correct.
I also thought the text foreshadowed the ending pretty strongly, especially with all the talk of Halloween and whatnot. It's one of the reasons it didn't bother me.
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
Truly, for the sake of your reading enjoyment, I'm so sorry you hated Daisy Darker so much. I had a reaction like this to a book earlier this year, and it really sucked. When I came to the ending of DD I wasn't shocked by it, but I did have a moment where I was like, ok, am I ok with this or do I hate it? I was very much on the fence of hate it or love it, lol. In the end I was ok with it and really enjoyed the book as whole, but I do get the hate. I also didn't love the ending of Rock Paper Scissors, but I did enjoy reading the book a lot, so I definitely like her writing style (and the fact that doggos are apparently always safe in her books, lol). Thimble was probably my favorite character in Legends & Lattes. The way you could hardly talk about him without descending into complete gushing as I how I feel about him (and really the whole book). It's definitely one of my top reads of the year and a new personal favorite. I haven't read Trollope yet, but clearly I should move him up on my Victorian TBR. I have also heard Doctor Thorne is great, but Barchester Towers sounds pretty fun too.
Ugh, THIMBLE! He just has my whole heart! And I'm glad you enjoyed Daisy Darker more than I did! It's just a matter of personal preferences on writing style & plot resolution, but I am glad she has an audience who enjoys her work more than I did. And HARD agree on the lack of dog harm! Leave the puppies alone, thriller authors!
I managed to guess the end of Daisy Darker very early on, so I actually enjoyed the experience while knowing what was going on although I still agree that it’s dumb. I also went into the book not a fan of Alice Feeney so I was quite prepared to be rolling my eyes 😂
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
@@bookslikewhoa hahaha yes! I was kind of doing the same thing and then finally I was just like okay I accept this is what’s happening and had fun with it. But I 100% understand your reaction and low rating! I’ve definitely felt the same about that same twist in other stories.
Thank you re: Daisy Darker/Alice Feeney. I DNFed in chapter 3 because of the sappy/cheesy/awful/nonsensical writing and was in awe at all the 4 & 5 star reviews on GR/StoryGraph. I thought I was missing something, or had gone crazy, or was just being a jerk. I truly can't believe this book got published AND chosen for BOTM. I really considered canceling my BOTM subscription. So glad I didn't persevere to the end (which I predicted in chapter 2 😆), but wish I could get my money back 🤷
Doctor Thorne doesn't have any of the church politics stuff of the first two, it is thematically quite different, a lot more about class and money and doesn't really feel like a direct follow-on from Barchester Towers. I personally didn't enjoy it as much, but I've just finished Framley Parsonage and think it really pays off when some of the new characters from Doctor Thorne and the ones from Barchester Towers are drawn in the same picture. Also Doctor Thorne himself is thoroughly excellent.
i finished Daisy Darker last night and I honestly really loved the writing 😭 But everything else was a let down because I loved His and Hers so much. The characters were bland and I hated the constant flashback scenes so much. AND THE ENDING. It was so ridiculous! I didn't hate it like you did but I was dissapointed, I wanted something so much more exciting
I have suspected that Alice Feeney is not for me but the rant confirmed it. There are ways to do that type of ending but most authors use it as a cheat. I felt that way about The Shadows by Alex North. Last quarter of the book made me so mad because it could have been done better from the beginning.
Interesting…I really enjoyed Rock Paper Scissors and enjoyed the twists. But the again I hate ice planet barbarians and dnf’d that. But we do agree on many books. I think it’s great that different books appeal to different people…we are not after all Stepford wives. I always listen to and enjoy your channel
So now what to do? I added Alice Feeney as an author I might like based on Alexa's review of some of her older books. But based on your reviews now I'm no longer sure she's an author for me. The spoiled ending...nope, not for me, especially if there was no inkling of it all along. Hope your work day improved after the way your morning started. Your little tidbits of your work life in your videos have reconfirmed that avoiding the PM role was the right decision for me.
I DNF’d Daughter of the Moon Goddess and it’s part of the reason why I’ve become disillusioned with Booktube. This book was hyped so much so I bought it off the strength. If I had known it was YA (which it is) I wouldn’t have bothered. It is classified as adult fantasy but this is clearly YA and should be marketed as such.
I also didn't like the pacing or character development in Daughter of the Moon Goddess. There were moments when I was really enjoying the plot, but then there would be a huge section that I was incredibly bored. Plus, hated the way the love triangle was done. There was no investment in the interactions of the characters for me.
If you are a romance reader already or are open to a romance forward book, I'd say Burn for Me. If you're more romance shy, I think Innkeeper is a good place to start, so I'd say Clean Sweep
So I haven't finished Daisy Darker yet because fanfiction exists, but does the whole family dynamic read a little like a thriller version of La Familia Madrigal to you? Like I feel like she's trying to push their specific contributions to the family a little too aggressively? Like we get it. When Disney does it, it's cute. In this case? Not so much. I'm only about 100 pages in but that's the main thing that is bothering me right now. Will add more when I finish!
@@bookslikewhoa You haven't seen Encanto? Also I just read this for several hours in order to finish it because I was curious and I just have to say one thing: Don't ever read Vanishing Girls by Lauren Oliver. Lol I definitely did not hate it as much as you did. I was more annoyed with the fact that it just seemed like she was trying too hard to emphasize certain concepts to the point where she was very repetitive in places.
I think for daisy darker I saw the ending coming from the beginning so I already knew to not take it too seriously 😭 The writing felt very immature but then I gave it a pass because of the ending . I’m currently struggling through rock paper scissors though and I think I might DNF it 😭
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
Imagine if "Daisy Darker" wins the Goodreads choice awards! 😱. Although the potential winner is the piece of crap "The Paris apartment" 😱..oh I hate Lucy Foley even more than I hate Alice Finney. I voted for "Wrong place wrong time" but I know it has no chances. If "The Maid" defeats Foley and Finney I'll be victory dancing 💃
I despised Rock Paper Scissors probably as much as you hated Daisy Darker. I couldn't stop seeing the one-liners like "Tiny violins always sound loudest to those playing them." Or "The best lessons are often the ones we don't realize we're being taught." Throughout the entire book! I won't read more from her.
Here for the spoilers of a book I’ll never read lol One of my most disappointing books this year I just finished - Girl Gone Missing by Marcie R. Rendon was barely a genre mystery/crime novel and worse… it was boring and predictable with the characters and plot 😴 at least it was a fast read and I didn’t hate the writing (though it wasn’t great)
Finally, someone who feels like I do!! If you’ve watched Sixth Sense, how could you not guess Daisy is a ghost!!! I was so pissed. And then, A FIFTEEN YEAR old is left with a house full of dead people, and everything’s fine????? WTF!!!!
I’ll admit I am not liking authors that write adult novels but they read like young adult god I am not a fan of that and I think authors need to grow a pair and just write an adult novel that has adult writing I don’t get it
formal request for all future wrap up videos to have an ending where the worst book of the month gets spoiled after the goodbye
lol I will take it under advisement!
A possible video idea: discuss the tropes used in Daisy Darker and why you like/dislike it while providing books that were successful that used Daisy Darker's final twist and others that weren't.
That's a fun idea, I'll have to think about it! I'm hard pressed to think of ones I liked with that twist :D
@@bookslikewhoa that's a fair point lol. It still might be interesting to do a "deep dive" into the tropes used and just share your insights on them.
this just further confirms our twin status because i HATED rock paper scissors and DNFed daisy darker and i have all the same thoughts that you did lmao
💀💀💀Twin synergy continues!!!
That ending can work, but you have to set it up well.
Space to, hopefully, hide spoiler for 20+ year-old movie
I think The Others pulled it off by being a ghost story.
The internment camp that he was in is near my hometown in AR, and I was an ADULT before I knew anything about this history in my home state. I’ve bought this book for my teens and they loved it!
I just finished Rebecca, which has been on my "classics" TBR for years. I gave it 5 stars. I loved it! There are of course a few cringe moments as far as societal views, but I do believe authors from so long ago deserve some grace for not being modern because they ... aren't
Daphne du Maurier is a gem!
I really enjoyed the rant at the end coupled with the cheery Jingle Bells tune.
Also loved Legends & Lattes. I'm here for the cozy SFF movement that seems to be happening.
LOL I'm still in the spirit even if I'm annoyed
Yessss LOL I was cracking up!!
Oh! I just loved Alan Rickman, young or old!!! He was such a kind man. I received a lovely thank you note from him many years ago after I sent him something.
I loved They Called Us Enemy! yes, agree that he did a wonderful job balancing the stories. And I also loved his parents!!
I read Legends & Lattes in November as well and it was my favorite of the month. I loved all of the characters, but Thimble was my favorite as well & the descriptions of the baked goods he was baking were amazing!
THIMMMMBLLLEEE
I agree that my least favorite part of the celestial kingdoms duology was the character work for our lead. But I actually really loved the pacing, it all kind of reminded me of telenovella dramas and the twist and turns that happen there and when I talked to Tammie its apparently paced very similarly to c dramas so I do think the pacing was less a debut author mistake and more intentional and just not something we are use to in western fantasy, but I also get why that pacing would still be jarring and not fun to consume for some people. For me its just a solid 4 star fantasy with some elements I find cozy
I think that is why I loved DotMG because I love traditional C-Dramas. This is one of my rare 5-stars.
That is great perspective - I've not seen any C dramas, so totally missed that reference. Perhaps that pacing of storytelling is not for me :/
@@bookslikewhoa Another quick note is that DotMG is based on Wuxia, which means Martial Heroes, as is a genre of Traditional Chinese dramas. The pacing of these 40+ episode series is very off, and if you've never watched and enjoyed one, reading one is probably going to seem really off to you. I'm a pacing freak and I normally hate things that are slow, but I love these chinese dramas so much. If you ever want to there is a website called Viki that allows you to watch some of the dramas for free with ads. You might be able to see if it was the writing style for you or if it's just 100% not the genre for you. For me I went into the book knowing what I was going to get lol.
Your joy when talking about Legends and Lattes made me so happy!!
Ugh, it is so good!!
Me staying for the spoilers of a book I have no context for and will never read: 👀
lol same girl, I'm always here for a rant whether I've read it or not
I love spoiler rants ❤😂
Loved your rant about Daisy Darker. It's fun to hear different perspective. Reading is a personal journey. Happy reading!
Sorry regarding the ending of Daisy Darker! I usually write off authors completely who have put me through dumb endings like that. Speaking of the isolated closed circle mystery trope, have you seen Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery? I think it will be on Netflix later this month so would love your thoughts on it when it does hit streaming :)
I think it's going to be our family's Christmas movie so I'll report back after that if I have enough to say!
I just became a " book nerd", I have watched a number of your videos and enjoyed them very much.
welcome!!
Thank you for reading ‘Daisy Darker’ so we don’t have to - LOL! I am not a big mystery reader, but was debating whether or not to put this on my TBR. Thank you for warning us to not bother😅
haha my pleasure
I finally read Daisy Darker so I could come back and see your rant...lol. I so totally agree with your anger at the ending! I ended up giving it two stars as I was pretty bored, I guess some things about the ending, but that one thing really was just...ugh. I texted my friend and I was like on no no no that isn't what she is doing... :( Your rant cracks me up because I am so with you!
Came in hard at the end with the spoilers section- loved it, and me too!!! So glad I borrowed this one from the library and didn't waste a single penny on it.
thank god for the library!
Your thoughts on Daisy Darker yes yes yes!!! I knew most of the book and it distracted me the whole time.
I believe in the US, the feminist movement was powered by Quakers and other minority protestant religious groups with a strong basis in the arts, such as writing and painting. I thought a lot of the funding for the women's "vote" was powered by pro-prohibition because alcoholism and its massive negative affect on the average family unit at the time. Many lower class women entered unwillingly into the workforce for much less pay and safety rights in the factories during the industrial revolution, and a lot of that was blamed on male alcoholism. I think there was also roots in men just being away at war and returning home dead, too damaged or traumatized to function, but also because women realized in this time that they could be self-sufficient with rights and many in fact enjoyed the autonomy free from men. The evangelical mindset did have a strong hand in both of sides of pro- and anti-feminism. There was also sort of pro-feminism artistic renaissance during this time that really shaped Christian thinking at the time, as well as the emergence of the middle class that played a part. There were even more moving parts than that really, I think. There was just a lot of factors and moving parts of feminism in both the US and Britain, honestly.
This is so interesting, thank you for writing this! I’d love to read a historical fiction about this paragraph exactly.
I wanted to add, I learned in the last few years another reason for women pushing for the vote was because of child labor; children working on farms, not going to school past a certain age. That put so much into perspective for me. I had always thought about the importance of women having the right and the freedoms to vote, that was the first time I started thinking about what their votes would be for, what changes that would make. I realized of course before that all those votes would shift something, but it just opened up a lot more for me to think about. On a side note even the history of PE in this country is interesting..if my research is correct it has to do with going to war someday, that’s why it was so uniform, it does play out in a military way when you think of it. Although there have been changes in some schools in recent years in how PE is done.
Thanks again for this thoughtful comment.
@Gabriel The Magolor Main 👁 I have done a lot of personal reading and research on the history of feminism. You are right in that expectations about education were changing, and that was seen amongst feminist groups as well. Especially when it came to child labor laws. I think the abandonment of feudlist mindsets played a part in Britain as well. Education was no longer being viewed as exclusive to the upper classes, and that I do think was seen in protestant religious groups pretty strongly. The idea that all people should be able to read and understand the bible in a more profound way, including women, was a defining protestant value. Turns out once people learn to read, they developed all sorts of radical ideas for the time like feminism. There was, it seems to me, no one social class or religious group that contributed, but them all working together that really pushed the feminist wave in the late 1900s and 1920s. There was a serious rubber band effect though in the 30s through 50s that led to the next wave of feminism in the 60s and 70s in the US. I admit, I only know about White Feminism in the US and some British feminist history, really. I'd like to know more about feminism amongst other races, as well as outside the British and US.
Yes, it's definitely fair to say the origins of feminism were multifactoral! I was just speaking on the fly about one of those elements, but yes, evangelicals were definitely influential on both sides the debate in both the US & UK, though they definitely move to the "anti" camp by the turn of the 19th century with the rise of fundamentalism, which was defined in large part by its opposition to the "new woman" and flappers. My fav book on this topic is Gender & Fundamentalism, 1875 to Present by Bendroth
Ah, I can't wait to read Legends and Lattes!
High Church in England is much more connected to how close to Catholicism and low Church is much more stripped back nearer to the puritans but puritans as they were after the English Civil Wars. Evangelism is a whole other stream in the UK and whilst There are connections within Anglican churches I would saythat there are different oversight authorities. Though at the time of Trollope I would assume that the space between the two wouldn't be quite as distinct as They are today.
Yes, in this period, the evangelicals were much more incorporated into the low church vs. branching outside of Anglicanism. That definitely changed in the 20th century (which was also a trend in the US - evangelicals were in the "mainline" Prostestant denominations thru the 19th century but then start splintering more and more into their own branches of the denominations as time went on, esp. after the American civil war). But totally agree that today conflating evangelicalism with the low church would not be a fair assumption!
your visceral hatred of Alice Feeney....hilarious 🤣🤣
I was all set to comiserate with you regarding hatred of Daisy Darker when I realized I had not read it, I was thinking of The House Across the Lake, which has an ending that seemed like a total cheat on par with "it was all a dream."
Oh NO!!! :D
Someones compared Alice Feeney's writing to fortune cookies and I agree.
omg YES
Marple in the background is so relatable 😂
She was so vocal that day :D
@@bookslikewhoa I definitely thought it was my own cat asking for second breakfast until you called it out haha
@@petiolereads I thought it was my own cat too! 😸
Spoiler response to Daisy darker: so far, you are the only person on UA-cam who agreed with me about the ending. Not only the twist, I predicted Trixie was a part of this. Nana set her great granddaughter up to be found guilty for her entire family's deaths!!!! I think authors keep rewriting "and then there were none" because of the open ending.
I’m here because I was told there was going to be a rant. I have my hypothetical snacks ready.
Honestly thank you for the Daisy Darker spoilers because I *loathe* those kind of endings and it saved me time, money, and effort! Thanks!
My pleasure!
I would love to read your paper. It sounds so interesting.
Love your channel! I have been binge-watching it!
You made a sad weekend better.
I'm so glad!
I learned about George Takei only much later in ‘Larry Crowne’ where he played Dr. Ed Matsutani. He was hilarious in that movie.
I enjoyed this video so much and have been waiting for your DD rant since you mentioned your dislike for the book on an earlier video!! Your church politics discussion was really interesting and I’d love to hear more in a video essay! Sounds like others found this topic very intriguing, too!! Happy reading!!
Finally someone who hated Daisy Darker as much as I did!! I thought I was the only one who didn’t like the writing with all the metaphors that were trying too hard to be deep. I was wondering if I should give Alice Feeney another shot but now I’m thinking maybe not.
I haven’t read Doctor Thorne, but I’ve seen an adaptation several times and I LOVE it!!! It has me wanting to read all the books but I haven’t gotten there yet.
Your reaction to Barchester Towers made me so happy! Mrs. Proudie is one of my favorite characters in the whole series because she is SO over the top. I wanted to slap her so bad whenever she appeared. Please make the rest of the series a priority because the final book brings together many of the characters in the previous books and is such a satisfying conclusion to the series.
I'm hoping to get through 2/year until I finish the series!
@@bookslikewhoa Good for you!!
Haven't read Daisy yet, but Rock, Paper is one of my all time favourites 😆.
Whoopsssss 🙈
@@bookslikewhoa it's importat that we both LOVE Agatha 😁
You are such a cutie crack up! Not feeling any of these and L&L just stopped me dead with title. Hear nothing but good about it but nope. Decided to branch out try something new so joined Pop Sugar Challenge and going to start book journal. Will say PSC has many INTENSE peeps! For me reading is pleasant escape relax tend to avoid becoming to TECH focused because then it starts to seem like yet ANOTHER work project. Not so much with PSC. They are ON IT! So for a minute I shall continue as paper&pen outlier rather than well oiled machine. Also quite surprised the INTENSE REQUIREMENTS for PROPER words POV. Example issues on use of words Fat Queer Disabled, etc. Assumption was those were loaded trigger words and peeps using them need to be disciplined or I shall leave etc. Switch to DECAF babee guurrl and relax!. Had to start blocking peeps immediately again to decrease criticism++ and flame throwing.
I have been waiting for your Daisy Darker rant... I read it and enjoyed but I am new to the Thriller/Mystery genre. But definitely a polarizing ending - anytime you pull in a supernatural element and people aren't ready for it...
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
I loved Legends and Lattes. The Inn Keeper Chronicles are an under-rated (in my opinion) series. Cozy sci-fi romance is the best definition for it. I was not aware you had a podcast for it. I will be watching those now that I know they're a thing. 😊 I have enjoyed many a Honey Phillips paranormal romp. Her stuff is just full of monster 👾 goodness. Patting myself on the back for the auto-pass on Daughter of the Moon Goddess. 👏 When something is that popular on Book Tube and Tik Tok it trips warning ⚠ bells and red 🚩 for me. And I'm generally correct. Alice Feeney is the female version of Riley Sager. All the over writing, "twisty like an M Night Shyamalan-in that unless you're in a coma you see it coming from a mile away", with poor character and plot development. Lazy writing is their true Hallmark; sadly, I've found that to be the case with the vast majority of popular authors. (Emily Henry, James Patterson, Sarah J Maas, Cassandra Clare, Ali Hazelwood, CoHo- just to name a few serial offenders 😏)
Yessssss every time you’ve mentioned wanting to read Daisy Darker I have been on my tip toes waiting for you to hate it. I had a full body jolt when I got to the ending like wtfffff
It was NOT for me 😒
Loved the rant !! No desire to read the book - which has been confirmed 😂
I agree with everything you said about The Daughter of the Moon Goddes! And now I don’t need to read Daisy Darker! 😂
Finally someone else who hated Daisy Darker as much asI did hahahaha
I've read 3 Alice Feeney books and concluded that she's not for me. As you said, different strokes for different folks.
"It was meant to be lyrical...or profound...or something." lol
I picked Doctor Thorne as a book club pick and hearing you talk about Barchester Towers is confirming that I want to read the first 2 before I pick it up!
I was also REALLY disappointed in Daughter of the Moon Goddess! it felt so mediocre to me. Rather than feeling like YA, to me it read more like a fantasy book that thinks because it is Serious Adult Fantasy it doesn't have to do good character and plot work - so similar feeling but from a different direction? lol
truly the worst twist!!!! wow.
I loved The Warden & Barchester Towers so if you have time, highly recommend it!
Your discussion about church politics was insightful - it was always something I struggled to understand in Lit classes at Uni because I wasn’t raised in the Catholic/Christian religion. Sadly, most (if not all) “classics” from British authors in a certain time period almost all had some comparisons/dichotomies relating to the Church…. It was just lost on me 😣 The class you taught would’ve probably helped me immensely!
She would be so great to have as a professor!
It's definitely "of its time" and makes it harder to follow if you've not had the context explained! It would be like if someone in 150 years from now was expected to catch references to contemporary worship music debates but they aren't even Christians in their own time period, much less 150 years ago :/
20:28 "It is meant to be lyrical or profound or something" has me *screaming* 😂😂😂
New viewer to your channel and I’m enjoying your content. Thank you ❤
I was NOT going to read Daisy Darker. I knew that Alice Feeney’s writing was not for me. Two seconds into the spoiler and now I have to read it! I will not enjoy it, it will not be fun for me, but I have to.
Lol get your popcorn and enjoy!! 😆
The way you came in hot after that 3,2,1 spoilercountdown 😆😆😆
lol I brought the fire!!
I just love your energy and the end of the video was so genuine and fun!!!
I just read The Small House of Allington which was my favorite so far:)
Ooh I wanna read the ABCs of Socialism!! I read Rock Paper Scissors earlier this year and enjoyed it, but it wasn't great... I'm still sorta curious about Daisy Darker lol OMG that twist though 😂
I love the rant because I have been dying to talk about how much I hated Daisy Darker! It put me in such a reading slump!
Thimble was my favorite character!
Mara, there’s no dearth of nerdy people. You are not alone.
I completely agree about the overwrought prose in Daisy Darker. Initially, I was really not enjoying that part of it but I was on board with the plot, setting, atmosphere. But then the ending made me more annoyed by the prose because it didn't fit the maturity of the pov character for (spoiler reasons.)
Daisy spoilers!!!!!
Daisy Darker was fun BUT I saw the twist from the very beginning. Other characters never acknowledge the main character etc.
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
I fully agree with the moon goddess I felt I was the only one! I almost dnf it but I pushed thru but I did not like it at all!
I can definitely see how Alice Feeney's prose can be really annoying. I think the audiobook narration helped me like Daisy Darker more. I also figured out the twist you ranted at the end about 20-25% into the book, but I actually didn't mind it. I will say at least the book foreshadows the ending pretty clearly because when i figured it out, the text made it very obvious that my theory was correct.
I also thought the text foreshadowed the ending pretty strongly, especially with all the talk of Halloween and whatnot. It's one of the reasons it didn't bother me.
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
After Verity, I’ve never hated an ending more than Daisy Darker. I don’t usually dislike Alice Feeney’s books, but I was as infuriated as you Mara!😂😂😂
lol glad I'm not alone!
I hate Verity's ending as well (and the whole book in general lol)
oh my goodness, i thought i was the only one who hated „verity“ with passion and was beginning to doubt myself!
i have found my people. ☺️
@@monica_has116lentilsand2cats we accept you with open arms 😄
@@monica_has116lentilsand2cats
😂😂😂
💯 there for salty (spoilery) rants!😊
Truly, for the sake of your reading enjoyment, I'm so sorry you hated Daisy Darker so much. I had a reaction like this to a book earlier this year, and it really sucked. When I came to the ending of DD I wasn't shocked by it, but I did have a moment where I was like, ok, am I ok with this or do I hate it? I was very much on the fence of hate it or love it, lol. In the end I was ok with it and really enjoyed the book as whole, but I do get the hate. I also didn't love the ending of Rock Paper Scissors, but I did enjoy reading the book a lot, so I definitely like her writing style (and the fact that doggos are apparently always safe in her books, lol).
Thimble was probably my favorite character in Legends & Lattes. The way you could hardly talk about him without descending into complete gushing as I how I feel about him (and really the whole book). It's definitely one of my top reads of the year and a new personal favorite. I haven't read Trollope yet, but clearly I should move him up on my Victorian TBR. I have also heard Doctor Thorne is great, but Barchester Towers sounds pretty fun too.
Ugh, THIMBLE! He just has my whole heart! And I'm glad you enjoyed Daisy Darker more than I did! It's just a matter of personal preferences on writing style & plot resolution, but I am glad she has an audience who enjoys her work more than I did. And HARD agree on the lack of dog harm! Leave the puppies alone, thriller authors!
I totally agree with you. I hated the ending of Daisy Darker. What a horrible way to end a book.
Loved the mini rant at the end 😂 there are just some books that leave us fuming 😅
TRULY!
I managed to guess the end of Daisy Darker very early on, so I actually enjoyed the experience while knowing what was going on although I still agree that it’s dumb. I also went into the book not a fan of Alice Feeney so I was quite prepared to be rolling my eyes 😂
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
@@bookslikewhoa hahaha yes! I was kind of doing the same thing and then finally I was just like okay I accept this is what’s happening and had fun with it. But I 100% understand your reaction and low rating! I’ve definitely felt the same about that same twist in other stories.
Extra Virgin Gargoyle is a hilarious title.
The way I burst out laughing then you held up rock paper scissors 😂 I strongly disliked Daisy Darker but yea all her ends are like that
That book being in the goodreads choice final round when it’s literally not even realistic. The twist is a play on reality
Thank you re: Daisy Darker/Alice Feeney. I DNFed in chapter 3 because of the sappy/cheesy/awful/nonsensical writing and was in awe at all the 4 & 5 star reviews on GR/StoryGraph. I thought I was missing something, or had gone crazy, or was just being a jerk. I truly can't believe this book got published AND chosen for BOTM. I really considered canceling my BOTM subscription. So glad I didn't persevere to the end (which I predicted in chapter 2 😆), but wish I could get my money back 🤷
Some people really like the writing style, but for me, it's just too much!
You made my day with your rent. Thank you.
Doctor Thorne doesn't have any of the church politics stuff of the first two, it is thematically quite different, a lot more about class and money and doesn't really feel like a direct follow-on from Barchester Towers. I personally didn't enjoy it as much, but I've just finished Framley Parsonage and think it really pays off when some of the new characters from Doctor Thorne and the ones from Barchester Towers are drawn in the same picture. Also Doctor Thorne himself is thoroughly excellent.
Oh interesting - I'm more excited than ever to make my way through the series, so I'll look forward to things coming back around
i finished Daisy Darker last night and I honestly really loved the writing 😭 But everything else was a let down because I loved His and Hers so much. The characters were bland and I hated the constant flashback scenes so much. AND THE ENDING. It was so ridiculous! I didn't hate it like you did but I was dissapointed, I wanted something so much more exciting
I'm glad you enjoyed it more than I did! But yeah, the ending was... not for me let's say :)
I have suspected that Alice Feeney is not for me but the rant confirmed it. There are ways to do that type of ending but most authors use it as a cheat. I felt that way about The Shadows by Alex North. Last quarter of the book made me so mad because it could have been done better from the beginning.
Legends And Lattes is going on my top 10 books of the year.
It's honestly just so lovely!
I’ve never had such a strong physical experience as I did reading Rock, Paper, Scissors. Everyone liked it so I kept going but oh dear- just Awful.
Doctor Thorne is better but my favorite is Framely Parsonage. Trollope is awesome ❤️ I had the same reaction to Daisy Darker 😂
I’m looking forward to both!!
Interesting…I really enjoyed Rock Paper Scissors and enjoyed the twists. But the again I hate ice planet barbarians and dnf’d that. But we do agree on many books. I think it’s great that different books appeal to different people…we are not after all Stepford wives. I always listen to and enjoy your channel
Exactly! 💛
So now what to do? I added Alice Feeney as an author I might like based on Alexa's review of some of her older books. But based on your reviews now I'm no longer sure she's an author for me. The spoiled ending...nope, not for me, especially if there was no inkling of it all along. Hope your work day improved after the way your morning started. Your little tidbits of your work life in your videos have reconfirmed that avoiding the PM role was the right decision for me.
I hated, hated Daisy Darker too!
Just love this video
I DNF’d Daughter of the Moon Goddess and it’s part of the reason why I’ve become disillusioned with Booktube. This book was hyped so much so I bought it off the strength. If I had known it was YA (which it is) I wouldn’t have bothered.
It is classified as adult fantasy but this is clearly YA and should be marketed as such.
I also didn't like the pacing or character development in Daughter of the Moon Goddess. There were moments when I was really enjoying the plot, but then there would be a huge section that I was incredibly bored. Plus, hated the way the love triangle was done. There was no investment in the interactions of the characters for me.
Oh yeah, I didn't even get into the love triangle but it's a big no for me
I feel so vindicated hearing you rant about Daisy Darker. I HATED THAT BOOK SO FREAKING MUCH. That ENDING !!!
Where would you recommend starting with Ilona Andrews?
If you are a romance reader already or are open to a romance forward book, I'd say Burn for Me. If you're more romance shy, I think Innkeeper is a good place to start, so I'd say Clean Sweep
@@bookslikewhoa I think I will try Clean sweep. I like clean romance but can only handle so many spicy scenes.
So I haven't finished Daisy Darker yet because fanfiction exists, but does the whole family dynamic read a little like a thriller version of La Familia Madrigal to you? Like I feel like she's trying to push their specific contributions to the family a little too aggressively? Like we get it. When Disney does it, it's cute. In this case? Not so much. I'm only about 100 pages in but that's the main thing that is bothering me right now. Will add more when I finish!
I've not seen that movie so I can't say, but yeah, the family dynamics were definitely forced IMO
@@bookslikewhoa You haven't seen Encanto? Also I just read this for several hours in order to finish it because I was curious and I just have to say one thing: Don't ever read Vanishing Girls by Lauren Oliver. Lol I definitely did not hate it as much as you did. I was more annoyed with the fact that it just seemed like she was trying too hard to emphasize certain concepts to the point where she was very repetitive in places.
I think for daisy darker I saw the ending coming from the beginning so I already knew to not take it too seriously 😭
The writing felt very immature but then I gave it a pass because of the ending . I’m currently struggling through rock paper scissors though and I think I might DNF it 😭
Trust me Daisy Darker was an improvement on ALL her books. "I know Who you Are" had the worst ending imo.
Yes, I should have mentioned that but was in a hurry :D One of the things that annoyed me was seeing the foreshadowing and being like, surely not. Surely this is just a red herring. But then... NO IT WASN'T :(
No wonder I saw Daisy Darker at 2 different Little Free Libraries so soon…it sounds disappointing.
Imagine if "Daisy Darker" wins the Goodreads choice awards! 😱. Although the potential winner is the piece of crap "The Paris apartment" 😱..oh I hate Lucy Foley even more than I hate Alice Finney. I voted for "Wrong place wrong time" but I know it has no chances. If "The Maid" defeats Foley and Finney I'll be victory dancing 💃
Lol won’t be the first time a crappy book wins
I despised Rock Paper Scissors probably as much as you hated Daisy Darker. I couldn't stop seeing the one-liners like "Tiny violins always sound loudest to those playing them." Or "The best lessons are often the ones we don't realize we're being taught." Throughout the entire book! I won't read more from her.
Exxxacctttlyyy
Here for the spoilers of a book I’ll never read lol
One of my most disappointing books this year I just finished - Girl Gone Missing by Marcie R. Rendon was barely a genre mystery/crime novel and worse… it was boring and predictable with the characters and plot 😴 at least it was a fast read and I didn’t hate the writing (though it wasn’t great)
Very annoying if a thriller fails to thrill
Number one 🎉
🎉
Is there a prize 🏆 involved? 😂
i guess i am in the minority. I loved Daisy Darker, but didn't really like Rock Paper Scissors.
Finally, someone who feels like I do!! If you’ve watched Sixth Sense, how could you not guess Daisy is a ghost!!! I was so pissed. And then, A FIFTEEN YEAR old is left with a house full of dead people, and everything’s fine????? WTF!!!!
omg I didn't even get into the niece.... :(((((
I've never been able to enjoy an Alice Feeney because the characters are all so whiney lol
I’ll admit I am not liking authors that write adult novels but they read like young adult god I am not a fan of that and I think authors need to grow a pair and just write an adult novel that has adult writing I don’t get it