The main problem is that these people who don’t care about us, have absolute control over thing that as fans we love. They are the bulldozer destroying the main forest and we’re the natives who are being crushed and they are the indifferent operators who are having a smoke and listening to the radio.
That's just it though. He's saying that because he thinks it's "punishing" the rest of us because of his great "talent". Waid fully expected to be begged not to retire, "No Waid! We need your glorious writing skills!"
@@Theorphan81 I don't really know what his writing skills are like these days, but I'm thinking about how people often don't keep producing quality work their entire lives. Take Chris Claremont. I started buying Fantastic Four in the late 90s or early 2000s because I saw that he was writing it, and I remembered his stories from the '80s being so much better than I expected from comic books at the time. So if Waid has lost his touch like Claremont did, and if he were still expecting people to beg him not to retire, that would be pretty comical. 😁
My kid has started to crack on K-Pop. She's finding out about industry shenanigans and abuse of the performers and the illusion is wearing off. Never meet your heroes. (Except that one time I met George Perez and he was awesome.)
@@adamfrey4920yeah, my daughter knows about what goes on in the industry. But she’s one of those who can separate art from the artist at least until they do something really horrible.
Yea I’ve abandoned every single franchise, there’s not a single one left that I consume. But I found much better franchises in manga & anime so I don’t care too much, it’s still sad what happened to Star Wars.
The best way to deal with these types of creators is this: 'I'm Sorry. Who are you again?" and then respond with "Oh. bless your heart." and then proceed to ignore them.
The longer I think about it, I think what’s really worse isn’t their attitude towards the fans, ultimately it doesn’t really matter for the fans if they do things out of hate or arrogance, it’s bs and will not be fixed either way, but what this means for them and who they are. Hate looks like a terrible emotion, but hate can be overcome more easily and in fact, most of us do leave some flashes of hate behind us all the time. Arrogance can imo become more of a long term problem than many are aware of as it has a habit of warping the person‘s perception. Yes, I think it’s easier to cleanse myself of hate than arrogance and I‘m honestly more afraid of becoming a victim of arrogance.
A certain comic book writer for whom I have zero respect left as a person, regardless of his level of talent, once decided to defend Frank Miller online one time. I believe he was defending Miller from fans who were saying that the film adaptation of The Spirit wasn't any good, or was underwhelming. And this guy said something like "Ants shouldn't condescend to eagles." Man, talk about *arrogance*! That really takes the cake, like "Frank Miller is an eagle and how dare you criticize him, you lowly ant. He is an eagle because he wrote comic books. I am also an eagle, because I write comic books, so that makes me a very important person, much more important than the vast majority of people who read my work." This doesn't seem to be an uncommon attitude within the industry, even though it's quite laughable; if you are unfamiliar with comics, then you likely have never heard of any of these people, so they really aren't very important at all. I could say to somebody "Gail Simone says this" or "Kurt Busiek says that" and they'd be like "I'm sorry, should I recognize those names?"
I'm sure that the CEO of United Healthcare didn't think about the people he's hurt either. They probably weren't even real to him. However, I'm sure that he'd regret that decision now. No, I'm not saying that we should do the same thing to bad creators. It's just insane that people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
People truly do get so high on their own farts they become "the guy in the matrix MAN" I swear most of these mfs come off like they think they're the only intelligent life forms on the planet 🙄😂
Yeah. As someone who consumes social media, that's one of my fears. I have to keep checking in with friends, family, and people outside my social circle, who can reassure me that my farts smell as bad as ever. Not that I need much reassurance on that. Perhaps, more fruits and vegetables are in order?
I have a sense that the mythical "Perch beer" is on a good number of your fans bucket list 😂 or at least I'd imagine so, you're a chill guy and I bet all of us have something in common lol
I understand what you are saying and think you are right. What I don't understand is why you don't call it hate. It seems a bit of hair splitting. To be so prideful as to consider others as having no value, like ants, seems practically indistinguishable from hate. So yes, I understand that the people are extremely arrogant and look down on others. Real question: why is it important to you that this not be called hate?
I think for the object of their hate or arrogance it matters little which one it is, but from a perspective of what these emotional positions say about the person, I somehow agree with Perch that this level of hubris or narcissistic behavior is worse. Hate is an emotional state that rushes in, takes over for a hot red minute, but then may leave our mind again. Hubris is warping our self, sometimes in permanent ways, and it’s way worse to face as a form of self-failure. It’s absolutely possible to simply walk away from hate, to leave it behind and no longer be defined by it, we often do that during our life, but getting rid of such arrogance? Not that easy.
I think in order to hate something or someone you have to have had some feelings toward that thing to begin with. The strongest hate will come from loving something to begin with. If you have no connection with something or someone then there’s never really strong hatred. But if you’re in an industry like this you will truly hate the things connected to it, especially if your livelihood is dependent on these people.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- I wonder if Perch gets a different impression of comics creators due to their behaviour towards him being tempered by the fact that he's rich.
@@ComicsOdyssey Honestly, the way I imagine him to be, I think it boils down to charisma more so than money or influence. But it’s also normal for people to be different face to face than online.
@@davidgantenbein9362 well, my thinking is that Perch has the ability to disrupt the industry with his wealth and knowledge in tech. A slimey person working in comics, knowing this may work to endear themselves to such a potential disruptor.
Comic book creators are highly evolved spiritual, intellectual beings far beyond such concepts of hate and love and the need for your reverence, your social media likes and paltry dollars.
Haven't even watched the full video so I don't know the context, but I agree that apathy and indifference is the true death of, well, any subject. There are thriving cottage industries around shilling-for or hating the guts-of content in entertainment. There's no market for Meh, Whatever.
I have enjoyed every Mark Waid story I've read, and I've been reading his comics for decades. As for his social media presence, I don't subscribe to Facebook or Twit or any of those things so what he writes there is irrelevant to me.
Consider yourself fortunate. Reading what people in the industry have to say on social media, at least for me, makes it a LOT more difficult to enjoy their work without remembering the ugly things they said. I make a point of *not* following anybody whose work I actually like.
Some of the "THEY HATE YOU" talk is exaggeration because I've seen it in other fandoms as well. However, these other fandoms don't always have terminally online creators throwing hot takes online, sometimes it's just because of an unpopular decision. It's not usually a rational conclusion - and its made worse when people start taking speculation as fact - but it can be a statement of frustration. A lot of comic creators do themselves no favors when they act up online, validating this idea that they personally hate fans in this way. But you're right, this dehumanizing idea of haters being nothing is worse.
First, I have no issue with them not thinking about me (see title) … I actually would consider that to be healthy. But what you really describe about them is actually a very unhealthy type of hubris and now I feel a bit bad for them, because I do pity people like that despite them not having it earned. Luckily I’m pretty good at walking away from trying to feel for others that don’t deserve it, so it will go away fast. Second, I do wonder what mask they wear, when they deal with you as I‘m not sold about they being more honest to you than to others. But I also think that being constantly a troll on the internet at some point stops to be a bit and actually is part of that person‘s character at some point. Third, I myself am actually ok to get to a place, where I’m totally indifferent towards these people you describe here and their output. Where I‘m just somewhere else, enjoying the creative products of totally different people. The nasty thing in this industry is that I as a customer also have become quite indifferent to many of these writers. Fourth, nowadays I only feel real sympathy for the readers that are still full of hope for better days in the future … it’s damn hard to have to wait for years upon years and still keep hope. I really wish those readers will one day get better creatives than these wannabe gods of Olympus you seem to meet all the time.
One bad apple can spoil the barrel. They are selling mass produced commercial art to a mass audience of plebs. That's equivalent to hot dog venders or McDonald's art wise imo. Not exactly high art.
Yea they’re equally bad, hate & indifference, take Mark Waid that really hates everyone, and then that Spider-Man editor (can’t remember his name), they’re equally bad.
Perch😂😂, please😂 I can’t stop laughing at the idea that 90%+ of the industry that seeks approval, validation through their art are indifferent to the negative responses of readers.😂😂😂 Tell me another one.
The validation and approval matters from peers not us ants. Though some ants have a wicked bite and some of these people are the thinnest of skinned. Like Waid and Brooks.
@PrivateCitizen84 The thing is people don't go out of their way to step on ants. Or if you saw someone do that you'd say there was something seriously wrong with them.
If we look at it from a more tilted angle (Perch is looking at what they tell/show him, but we can look at it from what they want him to see), then we could argue that trying to project a picture of „they are just ants“ or „they are just bots“, is actually how people succumbing to narcissistic personality traits deal with feedback. That type of person is usually defined as being unable to deal with negative feedback and instead focusing totally on a warped reality, where they look great. PS: and before somebody brings it up: no, I don’t call them narcissists or, to use the medical term, suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder. People can show narcissistic personality traits long before it becomes a full on disorder.
@@davidgantenbein9362 Talking people you don't know well at one's word is a bit naive. I see that mistake with a lot of honest heart types. Not factoring in other people maybe full of BS.
If a person says insulting things while ignoring the existence of the person on the other end of that insult, you've just described a sociopath.
This should be pinned.
Comic book creators hate you like an insurance company hates you
The main problem is that these people who don’t care about us, have absolute control over thing that as fans we love. They are the bulldozer destroying the main forest and we’re the natives who are being crushed and they are the indifferent operators who are having a smoke and listening to the radio.
“I so don’t care about the readers that I’m considering retiring from comics because they voted for a person I also don’t care for.”
Mark Waid gets to spend the rest of his life being Mark Waid.
That's just it though. He's saying that because he thinks it's "punishing" the rest of us because of his great "talent".
Waid fully expected to be begged not to retire, "No Waid! We need your glorious writing skills!"
@@Theorphan81 I don't really know what his writing skills are like these days, but I'm thinking about how people often don't keep producing quality work their entire lives. Take Chris Claremont. I started buying Fantastic Four in the late 90s or early 2000s because I saw that he was writing it, and I remembered his stories from the '80s being so much better than I expected from comic books at the time. So if Waid has lost his touch like Claremont did, and if he were still expecting people to beg him not to retire, that would be pretty comical. 😁
Indeed, the key to saving IPs like Star Wars and Star Trek isn't getting mad about them. It is ignoring them completely.
Well said, Perch. Well said. 👏
I am sad to report that my Twitter timeline is now filled with people claiming that the old Ranma anime sucked.
They are nuts.
The intended target audience of the live-action remakes of Disney movies.
I haven‘t seen the old nor the new (only ever read Ranma), but I‘m pretty sure that they are all delusional trolls 😅
I love my fandoms and when they start to degenerate I get vocal. When I realize it doesn’t matter, I stop caring and there goes that fandom.
My kid has started to crack on K-Pop. She's finding out about industry shenanigans and abuse of the performers and the illusion is wearing off.
Never meet your heroes. (Except that one time I met George Perez and he was awesome.)
@@adamfrey4920yeah, my daughter knows about what goes on in the industry. But she’s one of those who can separate art from the artist at least until they do something really horrible.
@@adamfrey4920also UA-cam ate one of your comments.
Yea I’ve abandoned every single franchise, there’s not a single one left that I consume. But I found much better franchises in manga & anime so I don’t care too much, it’s still sad what happened to Star Wars.
The best way to deal with these types of creators is this: 'I'm Sorry. Who are you again?" and then respond with "Oh. bless your heart." and then proceed to ignore them.
The longer I think about it, I think what’s really worse isn’t their attitude towards the fans, ultimately it doesn’t really matter for the fans if they do things out of hate or arrogance, it’s bs and will not be fixed either way, but what this means for them and who they are.
Hate looks like a terrible emotion, but hate can be overcome more easily and in fact, most of us do leave some flashes of hate behind us all the time. Arrogance can imo become more of a long term problem than many are aware of as it has a habit of warping the person‘s perception. Yes, I think it’s easier to cleanse myself of hate than arrogance and I‘m honestly more afraid of becoming a victim of arrogance.
A certain comic book writer for whom I have zero respect left as a person, regardless of his level of talent, once decided to defend Frank Miller online one time. I believe he was defending Miller from fans who were saying that the film adaptation of The Spirit wasn't any good, or was underwhelming. And this guy said something like "Ants shouldn't condescend to eagles."
Man, talk about *arrogance*! That really takes the cake, like "Frank Miller is an eagle and how dare you criticize him, you lowly ant. He is an eagle because he wrote comic books. I am also an eagle, because I write comic books, so that makes me a very important person, much more important than the vast majority of people who read my work." This doesn't seem to be an uncommon attitude within the industry, even though it's quite laughable; if you are unfamiliar with comics, then you likely have never heard of any of these people, so they really aren't very important at all. I could say to somebody "Gail Simone says this" or "Kurt Busiek says that" and they'd be like "I'm sorry, should I recognize those names?"
I'm sure that the CEO of United Healthcare didn't think about the people he's hurt either. They probably weren't even real to him. However, I'm sure that he'd regret that decision now. No, I'm not saying that we should do the same thing to bad creators. It's just insane that people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
People truly do get so high on their own farts they become "the guy in the matrix MAN" I swear most of these mfs come off like they think they're the only intelligent life forms on the planet 🙄😂
Yeah. As someone who consumes social media, that's one of my fears. I have to keep checking in with friends, family, and people outside my social circle, who can reassure me that my farts smell as bad as ever. Not that I need much reassurance on that. Perhaps, more fruits and vegetables are in order?
I have a sense that the mythical "Perch beer" is on a good number of your fans bucket list 😂 or at least I'd imagine so, you're a chill guy and I bet all of us have something in common lol
Nick Lowe should be in jail
I should probably just stop going to cons.
No wonder nothing improves if they think this way, did they also believe bad grades at school were scored by bot accounts and not real teachers?
I understand what you are saying and think you are right. What I don't understand is why you don't call it hate. It seems a bit of hair splitting. To be so prideful as to consider others as having no value, like ants, seems practically indistinguishable from hate.
So yes, I understand that the people are extremely arrogant and look down on others. Real question: why is it important to you that this not be called hate?
I think for the object of their hate or arrogance it matters little which one it is, but from a perspective of what these emotional positions say about the person, I somehow agree with Perch that this level of hubris or narcissistic behavior is worse. Hate is an emotional state that rushes in, takes over for a hot red minute, but then may leave our mind again. Hubris is warping our self, sometimes in permanent ways, and it’s way worse to face as a form of self-failure. It’s absolutely possible to simply walk away from hate, to leave it behind and no longer be defined by it, we often do that during our life, but getting rid of such arrogance? Not that easy.
I think in order to hate something or someone you have to have had some feelings toward that thing to begin with. The strongest hate will come from loving something to begin with.
If you have no connection with something or someone then there’s never really strong hatred. But if you’re in an industry like this you will truly hate the things connected to it, especially if your livelihood is dependent on these people.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- I wonder if Perch gets a different impression of comics creators due to their behaviour towards him being tempered by the fact that he's rich.
@@ComicsOdyssey Honestly, the way I imagine him to be, I think it boils down to charisma more so than money or influence. But it’s also normal for people to be different face to face than online.
@@davidgantenbein9362 well, my thinking is that Perch has the ability to disrupt the industry with his wealth and knowledge in tech. A slimey person working in comics, knowing this may work to endear themselves to such a potential disruptor.
The phrase that always angers me the most is: "it's nothing personal. "
@@ExplodingPrinny "It was personal to me." -- Liam Neeson
@@adamfrey4920Which movie? I believe I heard it, but can’t remember where exactly.
Coldsteel the Hedgeheg has ruined that phrase for me.
"It kinda feels personal." -Steve Rogers, from one of the *good* MCU movies.
Comic book creators are highly evolved spiritual, intellectual beings far beyond such concepts of hate and love and the need for your reverence, your social media likes and paltry dollars.
Haven't even watched the full video so I don't know the context, but I agree that apathy and indifference is the true death of, well, any subject. There are thriving cottage industries around shilling-for or hating the guts-of content in entertainment. There's no market for Meh, Whatever.
I have enjoyed every Mark Waid story I've read, and I've been reading his comics for decades. As for his social media presence, I don't subscribe to Facebook or Twit or any of those things so what he writes there is irrelevant to me.
Eh that Worlds Finist Teen Titans book he did sucked
Consider yourself fortunate. Reading what people in the industry have to say on social media, at least for me, makes it a LOT more difficult to enjoy their work without remembering the ugly things they said. I make a point of *not* following anybody whose work I actually like.
Some of the "THEY HATE YOU" talk is exaggeration because I've seen it in other fandoms as well. However, these other fandoms don't always have terminally online creators throwing hot takes online, sometimes it's just because of an unpopular decision. It's not usually a rational conclusion - and its made worse when people start taking speculation as fact - but it can be a statement of frustration. A lot of comic creators do themselves no favors when they act up online, validating this idea that they personally hate fans in this way.
But you're right, this dehumanizing idea of haters being nothing is worse.
Late stage Perch is killing it with his finest work. Bravo
We have strayed so far away from our original comic book mantra, “with great power, comes great responsibility.”
Mad Men truly was one of the best shows of the 21st century.
First, I have no issue with them not thinking about me (see title) … I actually would consider that to be healthy. But what you really describe about them is actually a very unhealthy type of hubris and now I feel a bit bad for them, because I do pity people like that despite them not having it earned. Luckily I’m pretty good at walking away from trying to feel for others that don’t deserve it, so it will go away fast.
Second, I do wonder what mask they wear, when they deal with you as I‘m not sold about they being more honest to you than to others. But I also think that being constantly a troll on the internet at some point stops to be a bit and actually is part of that person‘s character at some point.
Third, I myself am actually ok to get to a place, where I’m totally indifferent towards these people you describe here and their output. Where I‘m just somewhere else, enjoying the creative products of totally different people. The nasty thing in this industry is that I as a customer also have become quite indifferent to many of these writers.
Fourth, nowadays I only feel real sympathy for the readers that are still full of hope for better days in the future … it’s damn hard to have to wait for years upon years and still keep hope. I really wish those readers will one day get better creatives than these wannabe gods of Olympus you seem to meet all the time.
One bad apple can spoil the barrel. They are selling mass produced commercial art to a mass audience of plebs. That's equivalent to hot dog venders or McDonald's art wise imo. Not exactly high art.
I love comics for the comics, totally disengaged from drama queens and soap operas.
Hard to be loving while not ever thinking of people.
Yea they’re equally bad, hate & indifference, take Mark Waid that really hates everyone, and then that Spider-Man editor (can’t remember his name), they’re equally bad.
I recently found one of the best combinations ever: Larceny Barrel Proof and a cup of really strong coffee. Magical!
Thats funny I don't think twice about today's comic creators.
I’m shocked that this was a surprise to you. It makes perfect sense.
What is difference between anger towards indifference or hatred? Our loathing of them is not less in either paradigm.
Well said.
So this confirms my opinion that the biggest problem with the comic book industry is pride.
Perch, Perch Perch....those so called pros (name whichever one you want), couldn't carry Don Draper's jock.
Thanks Perch for showing images of Antman, even if the topic was these writers that treat fun as ants.
It’s hard to disagree with this particular take.
Perch😂😂, please😂 I can’t stop laughing at the idea that 90%+ of the industry that seeks approval, validation through their art are indifferent to the negative responses of readers.😂😂😂
Tell me another one.
The validation and approval matters from peers not us ants. Though some ants have a wicked bite and some of these people are the thinnest of skinned. Like Waid and Brooks.
@PrivateCitizen84 The thing is people don't go out of their way to step on ants. Or if you saw someone do that you'd say there was something seriously wrong with them.
@@folly6682 Little kids do it. I have seen it. So that shows me the mentality of some of these comic book pro's. Not much beyond a little kid really.
If we look at it from a more tilted angle (Perch is looking at what they tell/show him, but we can look at it from what they want him to see), then we could argue that trying to project a picture of „they are just ants“ or „they are just bots“, is actually how people succumbing to narcissistic personality traits deal with feedback. That type of person is usually defined as being unable to deal with negative feedback and instead focusing totally on a warped reality, where they look great.
PS: and before somebody brings it up: no, I don’t call them narcissists or, to use the medical term, suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder. People can show narcissistic personality traits long before it becomes a full on disorder.
@@davidgantenbein9362 Talking people you don't know well at one's word is a bit naive. I see that mistake with a lot of honest heart types. Not factoring in other people maybe full of BS.
"Infinitely worse" - seems to be overstating the case...a least a bit...
anyway we paid their indifference with our indifference of their products. A shame that the victim will be the industry of comics
👀