The Broken Beaver Part 1: Wood Chipper Repair
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- The Broken Beaver; A Vermeer 1800-A with a 110 HP John Deere, I Tech Motor W / Turbo, spinning a chipping drum a minimum of 2,000 RPM's and the shaft breaks and becomes three pieces! That would make your woody job go limp! This is part one to a series that fabricates a new rotating unit for the tree chipper, looking at what we have to replace and starting to whittle away on some steel for the center shaft!
What an outstanding machinist you are Keith. You inspire. Thank you for your professionalism . This great country is great because of people like you .
I watch other machining channels but when I watch your videos I feel like I'm visiting a buddy's shop and he's explaining everything he's doing, not just the what's but the why's. Thanks for posting these vids!!
"And then we got the woodstock..."
That line just got you a sub from the UK!
One day when I grow up I want a big lathe like yours. I have no need for it, but watching your videos really makes me want one :)
Keith, terrific work, terrific teaching skills, terrific camera work, terrific onscreen presence.Dave, gardner ma.
Very impressive! That's quite a chunk of metal... It will be a great series to watch.
Thanks! High time for a serious turning, smokin' blue chips vid! Cookin' with that Colchester once you got below the skin and dialed into the sweet spot. I like warm handles too, but can't quite keep a fire all night in the small stove in my workshop; temp drops to 50 or so by dawn. Once finally warm it only cools slowly, with 7 or so tons of machines in 400 square feet of space. I'll have to try green wood, lord knows there is plenty after Sandy. Wish my woodpile was as big as yours!
thanks. it feels like i am hanging out in the shop with you and talking weather. nice work and beautiful tools.!
i can relly appreciate the warm shop idea !!!!! being a mechanic and working on cars when its 20 degrees outside ( even with the doors closed ) is really hard on your hands !!!
Cool video! Pretty neat to see the difference in surface finishes with nothing more than a change in tool geometry. Nothing like seeing a good size lathe hogging some metal off!
I'll be back for part 2 that's one big shaft !!! I love what comes in the door Videos !!!
My grandparents retired in Eastham. When I was a kid I spent a summer with them. That was when they were moving the Truro light. Brought back a great memory!
great vids. funny at work today we were talking about guys who think they know it all run a bridgeport, but the guys that actually know whats going on run a horizontal ;). fav part of these vids is when you make a mistake of any sort you laugh and take a second to smile seemingly to your self about the little snafu. a rare trait indeed.
When you first said "100 thousandths clearance" my mind said "1 thousandths clearance" and I'm thinking "That seems about right... what's the big deal?" and then you put that rattly-ass shaft in there and I'm like "Oh *that's* the big deal!" So if I were your friend I'd definitely be calling Vermeer and telling them about this. They may want to recall these chippers in order to prevent catastrophic failures. Drum failures can be deadly with wood chippers. Seriously. Call Vermeer.
Nice vid!
That belt drive drill is a beautiful thing man.
would be great to see a close up of the tool bit from the top to understand the positive and negative thanks for making great videos.
Keith, you're the best, as usual! :] Can't wait for the rest of the series! Thanks for all the time you take to share all your knowledge with us :]
Another winner. Thanks Keith!
"We got a lot of stock...wood stock." Ha! that cracked me up. I'm watching all of your early videos to catch up on your channel. I watch the new ones the day that they come out, but I like your style, and I learn a lot by watching your earlier videos. Keep up the good work.
I spent the best years of my life on the Cape and I sure miss the weathered cedar shakes like on your shop. Rain, cold, sleet, snow and then do it all over again the next day. The best time of year is the winter on the Cape. No tourists. Ha! Pete
thanks for showing the different insert results, im just getting into using insert tooling. ive got alot to learn about it! thanks again sir
I have a wood stove just like that. Its been keeping us warm for over 35 years.
Keep trucking, your concern proves your workmanship expectations. You’re only going to be supporting the ends of your part; you need to support the middle as well, not just because of weight but because of the sag also! Use High pressure lube and keep an eye on them. If it makes you feel better drill a larger hole and single point the taper to suit your comfort zone size. If there was a set of rules for the limits someone would ignore them anyhow. ;{)---
nice one. the bit on harmonics is interesting.. the closeup shows a bit of a dig in a regular pattern, no doubt when the wave is pushing on the tool as it processes around the work. (looks like every 3/4in or so?) i've noticed this on smaller pieces on my lathe; it looked more like chatter, but there was definitely a resonance pattern. looking forward to #2!
awesome! i love it, a few chips lol... the highlight of all my youtube subscriptions. im looking forward to the rest of this job
Yes it is and was done that way because your strength in the pull is stronger than push and you don’t have to adjust your stance to loosen the tailstock.
;{)---
this is an excellent series! all sorts of good techniques. i wish i had the money to increase tooling.
Thanks for the comment Fred, I'm a bit winded, from doing the project and geting everthing else started for the new year! I'll get the rest posted sometime this week! ;{)---
Oh I love inside jobs.. lol... ty for another great video.
I watched you video on those guys running the chipper i can see why it broke, that machine not designed for saw log's . great job as always.
Well only because you mentioned it! LOL Last night I talked to The owner and around tenish today I get my first chance to watch it in action. He said that it has never ran so smooth and the recovery time is 45% faster after a major bogging load. ;{)---
Hi Keld,Thanks for giving me something to glance at with my coffee this morning! Yes my wipers need to be refelted or felt up or minimum played with! LOL ;{)---
Keith had explained in response somewhere in this mixed mess of comments and I am inclined to think it is a good idea, to quote Keith... "more offen than not you have to change your stance to loosen a right hand thread, because your stronger on the pull!" sorry it was easier to cut and paste! ;{)---
I would think, shear pin means, giving way and free spinning. This broke the shaft and removed 1/4" plating around the drum, snapped one blade off after it removed the bolts holding the shut assembly on and some other stuff you can't see in the photos he gave me from his phone. ;{)---
Thanks for the comment, that method is right there in my book also; in fact I show it in other videos! This particular job, I wanted a more rigged set up for hogging off some serious metals before getting down to size and showing other ways to getter done. I switch over to the four jaw to finish the shaft in the rest of the series. ;{)---
Hi Keith
In the land down under we call the a a Centre Square
Learning heeps
Keep up the good work :-)
Looks to me like no preheat on the fabrication of that shaft and flange, which caused the cracking throughout the heat-affected-zone on the toe of that weld nugget! Amazing to see such a massive shaft destroyed by such an (initially) small fault over time... Really informative channel Keith, thanks! =)
Nice to see some failure analysis. To be really certain about root cause for the failure you have to look closely on all details and understand the loading this part has. However, from the radial marks you have near the welds it indicates multiple starting point of cracks. Making welds always means initiated cracks so the root cause is maybe a small part due to bad welding but mostly bad design having a weld at that location. Depending on the loading the clearance might influence the life.
Keith had explained in response somewhere in this mixed mess of comments and I am inclined to think it is a good idea, to quote Keith... "more offen than not you have to change your stance to loosen a right hand thread, because your stronger on the pull!"
A positive rake on a tool bit, scoops under the metal, giving the ease of downward travel of the material from the cutting edge, across the top surface and negative rake on a tool bit, lifts or pushes the metal coming off the cutting edge almost giving a ricochet / skipping effect, due to the increased tool pressure. ;{)---
When it comes to older machines and equipment leave the carbide home!
...another question Keith! Please explain difference in positive and negative tool bits.
Thanks
Dave
Yes it is, came that way, it only felt odd for awhile, more offen than not you have to change your stance to loosen a right hand thread, because your stronger on the pull! ;{)---
This is a great vid ,, I enjoy your workings alot , keep them coming
Some inserts can't handle the interrupted cutting and the pounding of weld build up! Sometimes massaging the top of the build ups with a grinder softens the impacting and you can get under the surface faster. I'm not sure what your cutting or insert type just thowing a tip out of the hat! ;{)---
Thanks for spending your Time/ 2 share your Knowledge.
I used to be employed as a mechanic at a Vermeer dealer, and this is not the first broken shaft I've seen. That part takes a very high amount of abuse in the normal course of operation. Not only is it spinning and having to deal with the uneven types of wood the blades are cutting, it also has hydraulic feed rollers pushing the wood in against the drum. You'd think they would have considered these forces in the design process, and not left so much tolerance in the hub's bore. That's what you get with mass production I guess.
Must have been an anomaly in the material supply???Shizz happens. And a "gitter-done" day! Ha ha. Gota ponder the mfg. warrantee....... Bet Keif's shaft will spin longer than the OEM.
For the spindle of the tailstock, I would probably go with 1137 or 1141, due to the amount of machining steps, a medium-carbon steels W / Higher Mech. Properties. QQ-S-637 - UNS G11370, G11410. ;{)---
It is basically the tool bits or insert bits angle of approach to the part. If the angle of the approach is tilted toward the part its cutting it is referred to, as a negative angle and if tilting away it is a positive angle. There are variations to the shape of the top side of some inserts that give one the others characteristic. ;{)---
Many thanks from Germany for all your videos. I enjoy them. I wish you were on Metrics. ;)
The color of the chip is or can be progressive in the changing, after it has been removed, still flying in the air from natural, yellow, golden blue, purple to dark blue almost black! But if it is coming off the tool or insert light golden color you’re in the good production chip or maximized the combination of speed feed and depth of cut for the material. ;{)---
Keith, my friend...don't late with another parts, please!
Ya, you are going to have some gear noise and the reason you can hear it is because everything else is quite! I did have the small gear that drove my power feed out of alignment when I first started mine; give a hell of a gear screech. As long as you can definitely feel back lash in all the gears for their complete rotation, it will be fine! ;{)---
You are exactly right and you will see me change set ups, even though I don’t run the job between centers, I switch up to other ways that you may be able to true turn your projects, as this series progresses! ;{)---
I'm Ready to watch !!!
You were talking about the temp in your shop, and how you handle it. I do the same my shop is heated all winter long, one of the bigger problems is condensation, bad stuff for electronics and machines
It is a King, it has a 6 inch stove pipe, next video gives a closer look. ;{)---
I use a stock and reference book, if not familiar with app. The threaded parts or screws, first thought is to go to 1213/15 screw machine stock, but reading on, stressproof and 1144 Hi stress ASTM A311 class B or Fatigue-proof TM LaSalle Steel Co. are recommended for lead screw making, high accuracy and smooth gloss finishes. ;{)---
You know your making chips when you end up with a metal hay bale lol and you have to use a bale hook to move it 😂 great video I love big lathes and machinery I’d love to own a big monarch one day stay safe everyone god bless
I watched this series a few years ago. Now with Putin on the march, it gives me comfort to see something positive.
Somewhere around 13 -14 foot, that room with all that machinery is 18' by 18' square. ;{)---
I have no old school rules for that one and looked in the MHB only a chart for the sizes. One my web site is a 12" x 24' long marine shaft, we turned the finals on that shaft, between centers and they were # 8's and on was gualded from turning for a week, I had to scrape it to sell the TIR check point! ;{)---
I save and scrap some of my materials, personally and other goes to a transfer station and then they recycle as they see fit! ;{)---
They are the same height or thickness, I'm sure you could just Google DNMP & DNMG to compare tool design on the top face of the two! I will be grabbing the camera and giving a glimpse in part three, the part two that is loading right now starts out with a cool close up of the CNMP! ;{)---
Just for kicks, did you by any chance put the old shaft in the lathe just to see how much run out it may have had?
I would recommend, one that fits your budget, fits the space you have and can be driven by the power supply you have access to! ;{)-----
I caught that as well. Apparently a standard we are not aware of for some reason.
What was the most proud era for machinist, like in your opinion what decade cared the most about their workmen ship. A thousand seems a whole lot. Do you find a grey area from the late 70's to the mid 80's? Do you know what I mean.
I feel that the generation before anyone throughout history was or seems to be the better, because that was where the next generation learned from. I would have to say the most impressive generation would be any of those before the err of standard tolerances were developed. ;{)-----
Keith, I'd enjoy seeing it in action too. I can imagine the old shaft wasn't very well balanced compared to your replacement. Your vids came at just the right time, as I have just started training on the lathe. Now, if I can figure out why I was chipping inserts last friday... :0
No! there are a couple dozen beavers on cape!
Is the vice on your KT mill made by ENCO? It looks just like one I have. Thanks for all the great videos, it's cold here and i don't have any heat in my shop, watching your videos is the next best thing!
Hi Keith Why not just put the stock in the lathe and using a steady rest drill the holes for the centers?
Kind of looks like it might have started with small surface cracks on the edges of the weld. Doesn't help that it only had fillet welds holding it. With that clearance, the shaft would have been flexing inside the hub, which would have put surface tension on the weld cracks.
The outside diameter of the raw material is hot roll finish and is too irregular to run it in the steady rest. ;{)---
let's watch this video, looking great so far
That was some nice steel-wool you were makin' there man! XD
Hi Keith,
for shafts as such you are machining, here we set it on lathe with steady rest then center drill, by this method the job runs fairly true compared to as you see at 31:30. Is there any specific reason as to why you choose to center drill on drill press before loading on lathe?
I appreciate the details you share. 'm taking out time everyday to watch "atleast" one video of your playlist. Thank you
I have a lot more to edit for this series, maybe four more hours worth, we'll see, maybe throughout this week. ;{)---
I've made a lot of similar parts from Stressproof. It machines really well, almost as nicely as 12L14, but is stronger and more rust resistant! Speedymetals is one supplier I like for small quantities, quickly shipped.
You would have to call EMJ for the first book, buyers guide and the second one in question was a photo copy of a shop book, bearing fits back in the early 80's... ;{)---
Yes it is a knock off vice, had to modify the lower locating keys and after that works just fine. ;{)---
why didn't you use 2 centers; 1 fixed, 1 live and an carrier and catch pin ? instead of a 3-jaw and 1 live center ? this way you wouldn't have to flip it around and it wil be as concentric as it can get. then adjust the tail stock to compensate for a conelike shape of the shaft. just a tip from holland :)
I hate it when the beaver goes down because it's broke. Can you use Bear glue on a broken beaver? ;) Thank you for bringing these vids. Keep up the good work.
Can you expand more on chip color and what it tells you. I'm clueless, but I thought if the chips came out blue, I was cutting to hard or turning too fast.
Thanks
As you watch the rest of the series you will see that the ruffing was faster and would of been wasted time due to the welding on down the road. A lot of comments about the same subject throughout this series. ;{)-----
It going to be the haunting of me, I thought if I mentioned it, I wouldn't have to type a responce! LOL... I use sulfer based cutting oil.
I love your vids keith!Since thanksgiving i have watched over 250 of them!I learn so much from watching you,keep it up.GOD bless!p.s. can you tell the by looking the difference in a negative rake bit and positive?
It was a piece of hot roll, rough forging outside diameter. ;{)---
nice job
Question - at around 20.00 or so, you tightened up the tail stock locking but - you were going counter-clockwise - maybe the locking to the bed has some strange config? Anyways - that's one big-ass chunk! I use sulfur based cutting oil too but always get a bit concerned when smoke suggests super hot tool temps. You inspired me to do a 9 part series looking at some of my old work from way back, much smaller stuff - /watch?v=QeBU97uC-Yk - mostly gadgets!
Yes you can, as I edit the rest of this series, I will through in a clip of them side by side! ;{)---
Would it have been possible Keith to turn in between centers using a lathe dog to drive the stock to turn it true to the centers? I guess though that what have required a pretty big lathe dog!
hey that's a textbook example of fatigue failure!
Cleaning the weld by turning a radius on to it might solve the problem.
Best. video. name. ever.
Yes, the part could be turned between centers; it would have been a little less ridged, for the roughing. ;{)---
in this case you are using negative tool holders which hold the insert at a negative angle. therefore the inserts have no relief on the inserts themselves cause the holder creates the relief, you can seethis by putting a square on the bottom of the insert and seein that the side and bottom of the insert are perpendicular, now there are types of chip breakers on negative inserts that are referred to as positive and negative rakes. both of which u have the dmnp is a positive rake negative insert.
Keith, great vid as always. I have a question. I noted that when you changed from a positive to a negative insert you didn't make any adjustment to put the point back on center. Are the inserts designed to no adjustment is necessary and they end up on center no matter which type is used or is it that the minor difference in height makes no difference?
Looking forward to the rest of the series, thanks!
The shaft on your web site is the work I was questioning myself on how I would make. How did you determine the #8, was it called out on the print?I've never worked with anything that long before. I've worked with big dia.'s but mostly short turning and face work.In my 15 year career so far I have never found any info or reputable insight on this subject.Unless specified by print I always went with what looked proportional.
I'm watching this next to my wife and daughter as they watch real housewives of miami, ok, I'm kinda watching both