I've been anxiously awaiting part 2. It's almost unbelievable the change you've made in this machine. It's really hard to believe that it was even possible for it to come as clean as it did, let alone that anyone would have the patience and the skills to get it done. Excellent job bring this great old machine back to life!
I'm so impressed with this refurbishing. I don't think anyone on youtube can still clean some plastic with IPA, replace a chip and call it a 'refurb'. This is a reference video. And pretty cool that it's an 800xl :)
The ultrasonic cleaner is your best friend, yet it's underutilized here. It's the ideal way to clean PCBs and switches, but you need the right temperature and cleaning solution. For very dirty boards and switches, completely dismantle the switches and soak them in soap and hot water for a few hours and thoroughly rinse. Avoid scrubbing as the dirt can abrade away the traces and solder mask, or ruin the appearance of the plastic. Once you have all the heavy dirt removed, make a thick paste of baking soda and use it to scrub the heavily a tarnished areas with a toothbrush. Rinse immediately in a water and vinegar solution to neutralize the baking soda which can corrode the metals parts if not removed. Spray some brake cleaner and wipe it off to remove any surface corrosion or grime left over. From there, place switches and boards separately in the ultrasonic cleaner at clean them at 50C or just under the melting point of plastic using PCB cleaner. The ultrasonic cleaner will not only remove grime and dirt, but can also dislodge traces, which is expected given the age of the board. Finally, soak the boards and switches in alcohol for a few minutes. This will force the water out of the nooks and crannies, leaving the board dry after an hour or so. Make any repairs and clean up with brake cleaner. The end result is a much cleaner board.
After the first clean and the pads and traces started to lift I think it put me off using it again on the keyboard. I do use baking soda as a paste on the motherboard and it worked very well.
@@leesmithsworkshop If those traces lifted in the ultrasonic cleaner, then they were bound to be problematic later on. I once ultrasonically cleaned a batch of five dead, spare iPhone logic boards and noticed a few components lifted off the PCB and others completely disintegrated. I replaced them components and powered each board just to see what would happen. To my astonishment, four of them came back to life! It appears the ultrasonic cleaner not only removed the corrosion, but fingered the bad components.
To coin a phrase, WOW. That’s a phenomenal transformation Lee. Congratulations. I’m loving this series. Thanks for taking a chance on it, it does make great viewing content.
Excellent work, Lee. I can't get over how good the keyboard looks (and works) considering what you started with. Can't wait for part 3. BTW love the DankPods music at 36:35. 😄
I remember it being a pain in the bum to copy and hand etch a new keyboard PCB for my 800XL back in the late 80s. Mine wasn't near as bad a state as yours, but I still decided to make the new one. I also remember that at least one key never shows up on the Keyboard Self-Test. IIRC, it was one of the function keys, possibly one that wasn't on the original 400/800 models. Great job, so far.
Wow... I'm super surprised you managed to get the keyboard working. I probably would've just made and ordered a new board but seeing you getting it working is amazing.
impressive! I would advise to give all the keys a little bit of hot glue for support. the solder pads are not really strong enough to fully support the heavy key structure.
I think I'd have been tempted to wire wool the solder mask off the keyboard and flow solder over the top to make sure its a solid connection. you can use enameled copper wire for the big breaks. One hell of a transformation though!
i always found super glue never wants to stick to the kind of plastic those ribbons are made of so i took to using uv glue, so long as you can get the uv through the other side it held wonderfully, other than that gorilla glue worked well but you need something to clamp the metal down with like a metal ruler either side
Baking soda and vinegar neutralize each other, so it’s likely that only one was doing the work… whichever was in greater quantity and was left over after neutralizing all of the other. Should’ve tried just baking soda or just vinegar.
Wow, I would probably have given up on that keyboard. Thanks for talking about super glue for the ribbon cable, I have a Commodore Plus/4 with the same issue that has been driving me crazy.
I had the same issue with the ribbon cable of my atari800xl. I tried the super glue but didn't really last. Well its a good solution only if you put it back and never touch it again. Since I was rebuilding and testing the machine I had to try a different approach. I removed the last centimeter of the ribbon cable by cutting it off and then, by using a sharpy, I revealed "fresh" wire tips by "shaving" the plastic coating of the cable...one by one for each flat wire! If you can afford "shortening" the length of the ribbon cable...that's a more permanent fix. If you are not planning to take it off and on multiple times Lee's solution is just fine.
The issue with the Plus 4 is the cable is already pretty short. With the way is is attached to the board I may try to change out to a plug style connector, but the space constraints may not allow for it. It's a tightly packed little machine.
@@BarnokRetro That is always a problem. In my case I was lucky because the cable was long enough to cut it short twice due to broken wires in different heights near the connector. If the glue works and you don't pull it out and reconnect it that many times, I think it will be fine.
What an effort. I would have thought the keyboard PCB is barely worth saving. Given you had it stripped, might as well put it on a flatbad scanner, which is dimensionally accurate, and retrace it in a PCB CAD. Then also, might as well have a wire ribbon cable there instead, terminated with a machine pin header and machine sockets on the opposite side. The original PCB is made from phenolic paper rather than the more stable glass epoxy, so even for units in better condition, losing pads and traces is something that will inevitably happen and having a replacement PCB you can just order from a proto house at much higher quality can be worthwhile. The metal pieces after being brushed down and rust removed, you can plate them with nickel, i have been experimenting with that. You can make your own nickel plating solution by electrically dissolving some nickel in vinegar or citric acid solution. The most critical part can be purchasing nickel, you need a pure nickel electrode - often times what you get sold instead are battery strips, which are actually made of steel with just a little nickel coating on top, they will ruin your solution, they don't work. Nickel is quite expensive, it can't be a 2€ item, a tiny little genuine nickel electrode will cost about 10€.
if I just replaced everything without trying what is the fun in that ? I would replace if this was to be sold after, but it was for my own entertainment as much as anything else and it kept my weekends busy and I was very happy.
@@leesmithsworkshop To be honest i would have done the exact same thing, gotten the original PCB working again with as much patching as it takes. I didn't have anything in this sort of conditions but i tend to do less sensible and more laborious repairs a LOT.
WOW. :)
HARDCORE recovery. Absolute bullheaded determination. Pity on whoever/whatever tries to say "no" to Lee Smith!
@@Grunchy005 Thanks for watching all three :)
Wow! This 2 parter was like watching a horror movie in reverse! I'm still blown away that you got it working! Mad respect!
Incredible! I can't believe how much work you've done! I never thought in a million years that computer could be saved.
Your channel is very refreshing and entertaining. I watch those repair videos just to realize that it was strait up 50 mins
A million things to watch but I can’t stop watching this, should I seek a professional help? Anyone?
I've been anxiously awaiting part 2. It's almost unbelievable the change you've made in this machine. It's really hard to believe that it was even possible for it to come as clean as it did, let alone that anyone would have the patience and the skills to get it done. Excellent job bring this great old machine back to life!
I can't believe the transformation.
I'm so impressed with this refurbishing. I don't think anyone on youtube can still clean some plastic with IPA, replace a chip and call it a 'refurb'. This is a reference video. And pretty cool that it's an 800xl :)
Great job on those mod wires - a lot of patience is required for something like this!
That board looked absolutely gone... amazed you managed to save it from the bin!
Great progress! Looking forward to the next part!
Almost ready to start putting components back into the board.
@@leesmithsworkshop Woohoo!
The ultrasonic cleaner is your best friend, yet it's underutilized here. It's the ideal way to clean PCBs and switches, but you need the right temperature and cleaning solution. For very dirty boards and switches, completely dismantle the switches and soak them in soap and hot water for a few hours and thoroughly rinse. Avoid scrubbing as the dirt can abrade away the traces and solder mask, or ruin the appearance of the plastic. Once you have all the heavy dirt removed, make a thick paste of baking soda and use it to scrub the heavily a tarnished areas with a toothbrush. Rinse immediately in a water and vinegar solution to neutralize the baking soda which can corrode the metals parts if not removed. Spray some brake cleaner and wipe it off to remove any surface corrosion or grime left over.
From there, place switches and boards separately in the ultrasonic cleaner at clean them at 50C or just under the melting point of plastic using PCB cleaner. The ultrasonic cleaner will not only remove grime and dirt, but can also dislodge traces, which is expected given the age of the board. Finally, soak the boards and switches in alcohol for a few minutes. This will force the water out of the nooks and crannies, leaving the board dry after an hour or so. Make any repairs and clean up with brake cleaner. The end result is a much cleaner board.
After the first clean and the pads and traces started to lift I think it put me off using it again on the keyboard. I do use baking soda as a paste on the motherboard and it worked very well.
@@leesmithsworkshop If those traces lifted in the ultrasonic cleaner, then they were bound to be problematic later on. I once ultrasonically cleaned a batch of five dead, spare iPhone logic boards and noticed a few components lifted off the PCB and others completely disintegrated. I replaced them components and powered each board just to see what would happen. To my astonishment, four of them came back to life! It appears the ultrasonic cleaner not only removed the corrosion, but fingered the bad components.
To coin a phrase, WOW. That’s a phenomenal transformation Lee. Congratulations. I’m loving this series. Thanks for taking a chance on it, it does make great viewing content.
Yes mate, I really enjoyed that. Roll on part 3.
Excellent work, Lee. I can't get over how good the keyboard looks (and works) considering what you started with. Can't wait for part 3.
BTW love the DankPods music at 36:35. 😄
Wow, you have done an amazing job there!
I remember it being a pain in the bum to copy and hand etch a new keyboard PCB for my 800XL back in the late 80s. Mine wasn't near as bad a state as yours, but I still decided to make the new one. I also remember that at least one key never shows up on the Keyboard Self-Test. IIRC, it was one of the function keys, possibly one that wasn't on the original 400/800 models. Great job, so far.
Nice job so far 👍. Keep up the good work.
I‘m so impressed! You did a wonderful job with the keyboard!
I don't know what's the most sensible way of securing those loose keyswitches but those weakened pads are all liable to fracture for good.
Hot glue?
That looks so much nicer now, fantastic job to get that keyboard working! I'm looking forward to seeing what you manage to do with that motherboard.
Wow... I'm super surprised you managed to get the keyboard working. I probably would've just made and ordered a new board but seeing you getting it working is amazing.
Just imagine the comments if I just replaced all the parts with new !
@@leesmithsworkshop WoW....I don't even want to think about it....(neither the comments nor new parts).
Amazing work I cant belive you saved that keyboard
That is astonishing work. Astonishing.
Epic effort mate. By far the most extreme rebuild of a retro machine on UA-cam.
The transformation already is outstanding mate 👍 Very well done!
Looking forward to part 3!
Did i save the best for last or just put off the hardest part !
Wow! I can't wait for part 3! 😀 Wow!
WOW
Man, i'm in awe!
Well done!
A true Labour of love. Wonderous job
impressive! I would advise to give all the keys a little bit of hot glue for support. the solder pads are not really strong enough to fully support the heavy key structure.
i will do that at some point
I think I'd have been tempted to wire wool the solder mask off the keyboard and flow solder over the top to make sure its a solid connection. you can use enameled copper wire for the big breaks. One hell of a transformation though!
not sure the traces would survive that
Congrats on the progress. Above my skill's.
What a great series this is!
Thank you for watching.
Nice video and great work but watching this at almost 2am was putting me to sleep. lol Keep it up my guy.
I love it, cant wait for the next video, thankyou.
Fantastic job sir! So far so good!
Ouch! That's a real labour of love there. Hats off to your patience and dedication. Hope the board isn't as much of a pain in the tits........
So far yes just as much and I have no idea what will happen when I switch on, it could be so much testing and checking every part I didn't replace.
Patience of a saint, well done! 👏
Very impressive, I doff my hat in respect to you Sir.
Awesome job!
i always found super glue never wants to stick to the kind of plastic those ribbons are made of so i took to using uv glue, so long as you can get the uv through the other side it held wonderfully, other than that gorilla glue worked well but you need something to clamp the metal down with like a metal ruler either side
They didn't stick for long and I had trouble with them this weekend.
Excellent work mate, cannot believe the difference. I really wish I had your ability with a soldering iron!
Baking soda and vinegar neutralize each other, so it’s likely that only one was doing the work… whichever was in greater quantity and was left over after neutralizing all of the other. Should’ve tried just baking soda or just vinegar.
it was just the baking soda as a paste and I used it with water after.
@@leesmithsworkshop Thanks!
Wow, I would probably have given up on that keyboard. Thanks for talking about super glue for the ribbon cable, I have a Commodore Plus/4 with the same issue that has been driving me crazy.
I had the same issue with the ribbon cable of my atari800xl. I tried the super glue but didn't really last. Well its a good solution only if you put it back and never touch it again. Since I was rebuilding and testing the machine I had to try a different approach. I removed the last centimeter of the ribbon cable by cutting it off and then, by using a sharpy, I revealed "fresh" wire tips by "shaving" the plastic coating of the cable...one by one for each flat wire! If you can afford "shortening" the length of the ribbon cable...that's a more permanent fix. If you are not planning to take it off and on multiple times Lee's solution is just fine.
The issue with the Plus 4 is the cable is already pretty short. With the way is is attached to the board I may try to change out to a plug style connector, but the space constraints may not allow for it. It's a tightly packed little machine.
@@BarnokRetro That is always a problem. In my case I was lucky because the cable was long enough to cut it short twice due to broken wires in different heights near the connector. If the glue works and you don't pull it out and reconnect it that many times, I think it will be fine.
I'm expecting to see 50 jumper wires running all over the place by the end of this...we'll see!
What an effort.
I would have thought the keyboard PCB is barely worth saving. Given you had it stripped, might as well put it on a flatbad scanner, which is dimensionally accurate, and retrace it in a PCB CAD. Then also, might as well have a wire ribbon cable there instead, terminated with a machine pin header and machine sockets on the opposite side. The original PCB is made from phenolic paper rather than the more stable glass epoxy, so even for units in better condition, losing pads and traces is something that will inevitably happen and having a replacement PCB you can just order from a proto house at much higher quality can be worthwhile.
The metal pieces after being brushed down and rust removed, you can plate them with nickel, i have been experimenting with that. You can make your own nickel plating solution by electrically dissolving some nickel in vinegar or citric acid solution. The most critical part can be purchasing nickel, you need a pure nickel electrode - often times what you get sold instead are battery strips, which are actually made of steel with just a little nickel coating on top, they will ruin your solution, they don't work. Nickel is quite expensive, it can't be a 2€ item, a tiny little genuine nickel electrode will cost about 10€.
if I just replaced everything without trying what is the fun in that ? I would replace if this was to be sold after, but it was for my own entertainment as much as anything else and it kept my weekends busy and I was very happy.
@@leesmithsworkshop To be honest i would have done the exact same thing, gotten the original PCB working again with as much patching as it takes. I didn't have anything in this sort of conditions but i tend to do less sensible and more laborious repairs a LOT.
I can't tolerate too many carnage... :)
You have indeed the patience of a saint. Were the shift keys triggering the z and n key as well?
that sally chip replacement though.. stroke of luck or what!
I know, so lucky, but I did find the sally from the spare board XE also worked and the pokey too.
Back, front, inside out, back to front again.
ayy macarena 😀
You rule
Windows 586390 needs to be updated.
Well done, the keyboard looks so horrible before
Respect to you, but are you a masochist?