Although these are pretty controversial to us, we want to hear your thoughts about board game design! Let us know what your "Commandments" are in the comments below! Or join our discord and we can chat every day! 🟣 Join our Discord community! - discord.gg/SZ7wQnZrPp We continue the discussion during the Being Friends After Show on our Patreon! Check it out! 🟠 Support us on Patreon! - www.patreon.com/beingfriends
This was a really good take on Tom’s article, in my opinion. I think you got that one of the conceits of Qt3 is that the headline reveals itself to be a joke of sorts once you get into the article. It totally is a list of pet peeves. But good ones, I think! Btw, just FYI, I think Tom had soured on plastic baggies. OMG! It’s like Moses said, “Wait, do over!”
My thoughts on the board game ten commandments: 10 - There are other options than plastic bags. A plastic tray where everything has it's place is also fine. Though to be honest I have never felt bitter grabbing a few Ziploc bags to put pieces in if they aren't included. Not something I would have thought to gripe about. 9. Ties are fine, nothing wrong with playing a game as equally well as someone else. At this point in my life I don't need to win or lose to have fun. 8. Absolutely nothing wrong with variants. Use them if you want or ignore them if they don't sound fun. Some games absolutely rely on variant rules depending on the number of players for instance and that is fine. Often there is more than one way to do things and that's okay. 7. Pieces covering up vital pieces of information. Yes that can be a problem, especially in war simulation games where you are amassing armies on a map, but sometimes I understand it's unavoidable. If your strategy involves amassing the largest army in the smallest country of the map, it's going to cover up vital information. If I enjoy the game I'll get used to it. 6. Sure, minimize downtime, but again it is unavoidable. I try to not take to long on my turns, even at the expense of not thinking everything through fully at times to make an effort to minimize downtown for those I'm playing with but really that's a personal choice and some players want to do the best they can and they should be allowed to think through there turn as much as is reasonable. So much hinges on the personalities of the people playing the games. Heck, even roll and move games have to much downtime if you are playing with kids. "Okay roll the dice, no don't throw it over the table just roll nicely on the table. That's a five, move five spaces. You're not the monkey your the squirrel, no move it in the direction of the arrows. No that was six spaces you rolled five, I know you don't want to land on that space but that's the rules of the game. Now take a card, you can have a snack after you finish your turn, just take a card and finish your turn. Come back here..." Well you get my point. 5. You can have just as much fun playing and interacting with your friends with a game like Cartographers where there is minimal forced interaction. In fact those kinds of games usually have very minimal downtime. 4. No estimated length of the game on the box? Please don't ever get rid of that, when I am deciding on a game I want to buy I would like to know if it is a more casual game to pull out if you have a bit of time or a cancel all of your plans for the day to play it (as well as your plans for the next day because you will also be up all night). Yes the game usually takes longer than the estimate but usually it is because you are laughing, sharing stories, eating snacks and all around having a good time with your friends while playing the game. That's why it's an estimate. 3. Needing to reference to rulebook constantly is a pain, however in more complicated board games it is also unavoidable. I like games with lots of choices and wrinkles and usually no matter how well everyone who is playing knows the rules, someone will come across a choice that no one has come across or thought about and suddenly you need to pause the game and sort out whether so an so can actually do that or what happens if these two things happen at once etc. Nothing wrong with a game that can give provide all the rules you need to know on a little card for every player but I also sometimes want to play a game with more complicated rules, which often makes it mandatory to have the rulebook close by. 2. The only rule I think I can get behind. Yes, have a clear rulebook, have it laid out in proper steps. Have a section for first time players, have an index for more complicated games. I really appreciate games when they do this. I think this is the only rule here that I think everyone could agree on, I doubt anyone would want a confusing and vague rulebook for their new game...unless the game is to cooperate with everyone trying to decide a cryptic rulebook and you win the game when you figure out how to play the game together! My head hurts. 1. Seriously? You're going to play the "I'm an adult so I don't play with toys anymore" card? You literally just wrote an article about games, which could be considered toys. Good grief, get off your high horse and just let people enjoy what brings them joy without trying to justify what you like as more adult and what you don't like as childish. If I was designing a board game, this is not a list of rules I would live by.
My stances on these are: Ties: I dislike tiebreakers that make no sense. That indeed feels like a cheap way out. Even if tiebreakers make sense then I also feel like it should be max on about 2 criteria. I think it would be hard to even find a meaningful 3rd one anyway. Variants: Again it depends. If it makes complete sense then sure why not allow variants. But if it's somehow less good then I rather don't have it. I feel like playing without events in Spirit Island is one of these as well. The game is clearly not designed with that in mind if you look at the beast tokens. It actually requires quite a bit off analysing to realize that. So yeah in that case then suck it up and just recommend only the full experience. At the very least be up front about it. I actually feel that way about player counts as well. The amount of games that are listed as 2-5 players that really should just be 3-4 is really a shame. Downtime: Depends again. Sometimes it's ok. A lot of the time it's a nessary but acceptable evil. Minimizing it is usually a good thing though. Interaction in games: I agree, so many times the interaction is where it's really at. Honestly I kind of feel like that the people who really dislike it are slighly noob... :) Rule books: Everyone knows they are important. And we probably still under estimate it. Miniatures: Each their own I guess. To me some games do really seem to be overdoing it.
Hello fellas. A bit too late but... A real "commandment" should be: "thou shall not write a rulebook full of ambiguities". It's a nightmare trying to "interpret" rules 😢😅
Hey guys, big like on the video. I think ties are fine in shorter length games, especially if it's a really good game. The tie just encourages me to want to play an extra round. I can see if you are playing a really long game like Twilight 4, and just invested 5 hours away without a clear victory. That might feel frustrating. And, as far as variants go, bring em' on! They can be like the spice of life that makes a great game more replayable......and I don't have to buy the expansion.😁
luckily I don’t believe it’s possible to tie in twilight 4! it’s possible (if not probable) for 2 players to get to 10 points in the same round but the win goes to the player who has the lowest number tactic tile or whatever it’s called! it is entirely possible to plan for this and if you are doing well enough, ensure the victory 🤌🏻 and i totally agree on the variants thing. i JUST like them. I won’t always play them, but i always appreciate them being included. half of the time it’s a variant for me and the other half of the time it’s not! but that is okay. -evan
if its a kid's game, ties are essentials.... otherwise NO ties!!! 😂 Downtimes is subjective. Downtime in Wingspan is super annoying, downtime is Spirit Island can be pretty nice. I don't totally disagree with him in regards to the last one... especially when considering people spend $800 Marvel United... just saying! This guy is probably the most well spoken troll ever! Thanks for sharing!
Although these are pretty controversial to us, we want to hear your thoughts about board game design! Let us know what your "Commandments" are in the comments below! Or join our discord and we can chat every day!
🟣 Join our Discord community! - discord.gg/SZ7wQnZrPp
We continue the discussion during the Being Friends After Show on our Patreon! Check it out!
🟠 Support us on Patreon! - www.patreon.com/beingfriends
This was a really good take on Tom’s article, in my opinion. I think you got that one of the conceits of Qt3 is that the headline reveals itself to be a joke of sorts once you get into the article. It totally is a list of pet peeves. But good ones, I think! Btw, just FYI, I think Tom had soured on plastic baggies. OMG! It’s like Moses said, “Wait, do over!”
I personaly think some toys like birdfeeder from Wingspan or the big tree from Everdell are iconic and should be included.
So agree there! They bring the game to life in a unique way. 🙂
Before the video was over, the young gentlemen on the left referred to it as a "rules book". My work here is done.
My thoughts on the board game ten commandments:
10 - There are other options than plastic bags. A plastic tray where everything has it's place is also fine. Though to be honest I have never felt bitter grabbing a few Ziploc bags to put pieces in if they aren't included. Not something I would have thought to gripe about.
9. Ties are fine, nothing wrong with playing a game as equally well as someone else. At this point in my life I don't need to win or lose to have fun.
8. Absolutely nothing wrong with variants. Use them if you want or ignore them if they don't sound fun. Some games absolutely rely on variant rules depending on the number of players for instance and that is fine. Often there is more than one way to do things and that's okay.
7. Pieces covering up vital pieces of information. Yes that can be a problem, especially in war simulation games where you are amassing armies on a map, but sometimes I understand it's unavoidable. If your strategy involves amassing the largest army in the smallest country of the map, it's going to cover up vital information. If I enjoy the game I'll get used to it.
6. Sure, minimize downtime, but again it is unavoidable. I try to not take to long on my turns, even at the expense of not thinking everything through fully at times to make an effort to minimize downtown for those I'm playing with but really that's a personal choice and some players want to do the best they can and they should be allowed to think through there turn as much as is reasonable. So much hinges on the personalities of the people playing the games. Heck, even roll and move games have to much downtime if you are playing with kids. "Okay roll the dice, no don't throw it over the table just roll nicely on the table. That's a five, move five spaces. You're not the monkey your the squirrel, no move it in the direction of the arrows. No that was six spaces you rolled five, I know you don't want to land on that space but that's the rules of the game. Now take a card, you can have a snack after you finish your turn, just take a card and finish your turn. Come back here..." Well you get my point.
5. You can have just as much fun playing and interacting with your friends with a game like Cartographers where there is minimal forced interaction. In fact those kinds of games usually have very minimal downtime.
4. No estimated length of the game on the box? Please don't ever get rid of that, when I am deciding on a game I want to buy I would like to know if it is a more casual game to pull out if you have a bit of time or a cancel all of your plans for the day to play it (as well as your plans for the next day because you will also be up all night). Yes the game usually takes longer than the estimate but usually it is because you are laughing, sharing stories, eating snacks and all around having a good time with your friends while playing the game. That's why it's an estimate.
3. Needing to reference to rulebook constantly is a pain, however in more complicated board games it is also unavoidable. I like games with lots of choices and wrinkles and usually no matter how well everyone who is playing knows the rules, someone will come across a choice that no one has come across or thought about and suddenly you need to pause the game and sort out whether so an so can actually do that or what happens if these two things happen at once etc. Nothing wrong with a game that can give provide all the rules you need to know on a little card for every player but I also sometimes want to play a game with more complicated rules, which often makes it mandatory to have the rulebook close by.
2. The only rule I think I can get behind. Yes, have a clear rulebook, have it laid out in proper steps. Have a section for first time players, have an index for more complicated games. I really appreciate games when they do this. I think this is the only rule here that I think everyone could agree on, I doubt anyone would want a confusing and vague rulebook for their new game...unless the game is to cooperate with everyone trying to decide a cryptic rulebook and you win the game when you figure out how to play the game together! My head hurts.
1. Seriously? You're going to play the "I'm an adult so I don't play with toys anymore" card? You literally just wrote an article about games, which could be considered toys. Good grief, get off your high horse and just let people enjoy what brings them joy without trying to justify what you like as more adult and what you don't like as childish.
If I was designing a board game, this is not a list of rules I would live by.
Thank you 🙏
But seriously, all great points. 🤩
Inserts >>>bags every time
My stances on these are:
Ties: I dislike tiebreakers that make no sense. That indeed feels like a cheap way out. Even if tiebreakers make sense then I also feel like it should be max on about 2 criteria. I think it would be hard to even find a meaningful 3rd one anyway.
Variants: Again it depends. If it makes complete sense then sure why not allow variants. But if it's somehow less good then I rather don't have it. I feel like playing without events in Spirit Island is one of these as well. The game is clearly not designed with that in mind if you look at the beast tokens. It actually requires quite a bit off analysing to realize that. So yeah in that case then suck it up and just recommend only the full experience. At the very least be up front about it. I actually feel that way about player counts as well. The amount of games that are listed as 2-5 players that really should just be 3-4 is really a shame.
Downtime: Depends again. Sometimes it's ok. A lot of the time it's a nessary but acceptable evil. Minimizing it is usually a good thing though.
Interaction in games: I agree, so many times the interaction is where it's really at. Honestly I kind of feel like that the people who really dislike it are slighly noob... :)
Rule books: Everyone knows they are important. And we probably still under estimate it.
Miniatures: Each their own I guess. To me some games do really seem to be overdoing it.
love your naruto and jojo shirts!
YESSS
great video i agree with most of your comments except ties. when i get a tie with my kids its a huge win for me because they usually kick my but!
i am with you on that😂😂 -evan
Hello fellas. A bit too late but... A real "commandment" should be: "thou shall not write a rulebook full of ambiguities". It's a nightmare trying to "interpret" rules 😢😅
Hey guys, big like on the video. I think ties are fine in shorter length games, especially if it's a really good game. The tie just encourages me to want to play an extra round. I can see if you are playing a really long game like Twilight 4, and just invested 5 hours away without a clear victory. That might feel frustrating. And, as far as variants go, bring em' on! They can be like the spice of life that makes a great game more replayable......and I don't have to buy the expansion.😁
luckily I don’t believe it’s possible to tie in twilight 4! it’s possible (if not probable) for 2 players to get to 10 points in the same round but the win goes to the player who has the lowest number tactic tile or whatever it’s called! it is entirely possible to plan for this and if you are doing well enough, ensure the victory 🤌🏻
and i totally agree on the variants thing. i JUST like them. I won’t always play them, but i always appreciate them being included. half of the time it’s a variant for me and the other half of the time it’s not! but that is okay. -evan
if its a kid's game, ties are essentials.... otherwise NO ties!!! 😂 Downtimes is subjective. Downtime in Wingspan is super annoying, downtime is Spirit Island can be pretty nice. I don't totally disagree with him in regards to the last one... especially when considering people spend $800 Marvel United... just saying! This guy is probably the most well spoken troll ever! Thanks for sharing!
hahaha! 😂😂
no one ever said that being into miniatures games is responsible 🤭😵😂 but hey whatever brings you joy! -evan
@@BeingFriends its true its true :)
I don’t get this guy. What games does he even like???
anything but mage knight