The absolute best part of this video is the Santa Altera section. I don't think I've seen any of you as heated about anything as you guys were about the Santa Altera vs Billy the Kid argument. It was the most intense mid off in history and a 10/10 experience.
They do bring great alternative POVs. I just really would like to hear their full comments instead of constant interruptions. If I was getting talked over that much, I wouldn't come back, but also if it's normal for how these guys interact with each other and they're all cool with it, it's not as bad.
The game is not ready for Emiya. Gilgamesh level is still acceptable. Emiya's original level of Art NP is not. If they did not nerf him, he would be the king of Art loop...from the beginning of the game.
Tametomo was kinda tragic. The way he was teased in Traum makes you think he would be an NP focused unit but you would need alot more steroids if you want to be a new NP focused unit since no NP upgrade anytime soon.
@@milten76 I don't remember if it was buffed before the vid, but it's probably his charisma buff that elevated him to EX. It practically made his NP hit much much harder than before. Remember, the best buffs a Buster looper can have is either a Attack up or NP damage up to multiply it to the Buster ups Double Koyan gives out. Gil has the best of both worlds, having a 5 turn 21% Attack up and 20% NP damage up to stack for 2nd wave, effectively having 42% Attack up and 40% NP damage up on the 2nd and 3rd turn(don't forget the 30% NP damage up on his NP for one turn). Remember that ik farming, Gil also has the best boost in damage in the game, Oberon, making his numbers pretty much close to that of a single target Buster NP. Having a 20 star bomb also helps for things like CQs. Only ones that come close to his third turn damage is either Tesla with the same set up or a double Summer Chloe Arash, though Tesla has an Advantage with having less resources used on him being that he has a 50% NP charge compared to Gil's 30%.
@@Urd-Vidan Great summary bro. His buff just made him a bigger friend of Oberon. Any Servant with NP Up is Oberon's friend but now Gil is only getting better. They had to buff him to make him catch up with his competition. Power creep and such.
This. He's my main archer along with Tesla, and he's doing pretty good job since his synergy with Merlin and Castoria is very good imo (I often bring him more when doing stories). But I agree he needs more buffs, same with Artemis
@@terra_chad2905 same here pal :') he's one of my fav personality wise, and is treated well in my chaldea (bond 11, np2, still trying to 2000/2000 him). I give his art card fou's paws so if it set correctly, 1 crit art card can fill 70% of his np bar. I hope people could give him a chance to shine and use him before burning him 😢
@@ReInvader this is very true. That's specifically why i think Arjuna could get another buff because if it's just him alone he can be very underwhelming
Tesla was my first SSR back in 2017 and I finally managed to get him to 120. I try and clear every challenge quest at least once with a team built around him, and it almost always works thanks to the insane damage and survivability (plus supporting his supports with NP gain). Can't wait to never miss his second skill ever again after the upcoming buff. Love to see the EX placement :)
noticeably there's not actually a lot of great dps options for archers in boss killing / CQ. You have orion, and gil (who is kinda situational, and not great against a lot of LB bosses as they're not servants), and that's about it. So it kinda makes sense that a berserker ends up here.
Hey Myst can you vocalize more stuff on screen more? Sometimes you don't say things like final ratings or refund/damage numbers. I love listening to your content in the car like a podcast but it sucks when you don't say the final rating and I'm left wondering what it is because I can't check my phone in the middle of the highway.
Tametomo had good utility with Double Bypass, but whoever thought giving him a 1 Hit NP Damage Buff should get their brain checked Barghest. why the hell do they still give her a crap attack stats. It's worse now that she also need to deal with Archer Class Damage penalty. That and her S2's cooldown is kinda overpriced since she only gets a 30% Charge Durga. Honestly, really wish they gave her a more synergistic Niche. Sky has the least coverage compare to the 3 Common Attribute and Ibuki is the only one that can get the full damage from her NP
Ah yes, kinda sad Tametomo got disrespected like that.. I mean, in the Bakin event, he's introduced as a literal world destroying Archer with his massive nuke arrow. He's completely different Archer than an anti personnel ones like Chiron and Tell, and he also do not have any divine "blast" attack like Ishtar and Arjuna. So it makes sense that he requires time to charge his massive arrow. But one hit only, then all the NP buff gone the next turn? Even then 5 turn stacking NP damage won't make him like OP top tier must have servants. 5 turn is one hell of a long time. Waiting 5 turn without using NP will severely hurt his damage output. Bcs once they use NP, all his stacks are vanish. Sure, they can be paired amazingly with Oberon to deal comically large numbers, but again... 5 turns waiting without NPing to achieve that? Such a joke..
On the few comments about talking over others, I think it's mostly fine, but you do have a habit of cutting the other hosts off when you know what they're about to say. You might as well let them finish the point themselves
Activate on "death" buffs are kinda hard to understand, in plushie's case, on Shana Oh CE on Yui comp, I *PRESUME* that he used it with a Gong NP to cycle the servant holding the CE out. In this case, Shana Oh's Quick Up, would actually get activated on your turn, and a Full Turn actually consist of yours and the enemy's turn, with it's effect only lasting for 1 turn, Shana Oh's Quick up would actually only extend until the end of enemy's turn. Different case when the CE holder dies with enemy's attack on enemy's turn (this also includes DoTs, because it activates After you finished your turn, a.k.a the start of enemy's turn), the CE effect of 1 turn would then extend on your next turn of attack, and then expire on enemy's turn. This case can also be viewed with Offensive Guts activation effects, for example Leonidas. In one of my Video of recent F/SR CQ, a TA run of Chloe with bronze supports, you can see that Leonidas got his Guts activated for the first time at "Turn 2" with Takeru's NP a.k.a enemy's turn, which marks the start of his 20% aoe Atk Up of 3 turns. Now if you fast forward to Turn 4, the transition to Turn 5, you can see that the Buffs that was casted on my turn on "Turn 2" (that lasts for 3 turns, aka Hans & Mata Hari) would expire, but not Leonidas' First Guts Activated Atk Up that's still up on Turn 5, even tho it got activated on Turn 2, but on enemy's turn. Another weird Buff Duration case, is with NP gains, on normal categorization, NP Gain Ups are not treated as offensive buff, but expiration wise, it still is. You understand how the turn your 'Atk Up' is supposed to expire, the symbol would disappear on enemy's turn? It's the same with NP Gain Up, it won't be a full x turn(s). Now, NP Gain Up 'when attacked' is a different buff than normal NP Gain Up, not a defensive buff, but expiration wise it is, hence why it ends at enemy's turn, it makes sense. But why not normal NP Gain Up? >:( This also somewhat explain why they give Bazette that one Unique Passive, extending the duration of her offensive buffs. Now... mentioning defensive buff's duration, ONE THING, I griped the most, is the bamboozling with George's Bond CE. IF he dies on enemy's turn, which is the normal usage with his taunt, his Bond CE's Defensive Buffs WILL activate on that Enemy's Turn, which means that it will expire right as Our Turn Ends, which complicate things because the Defensive Buffs we're used to have, will end after the enemies attack. But because the defensive buffs activates on enemy's turn, the buff's Display and Effects will still apply on our turn, but as soon as the enemy start their turn, George's Bond CE buffs disappears... :'v Which means, effectively we will only have a *2 Turns* of 1 Hit Invul and Damage Cut, IF George dies by enemy attack with his taunt active. IF George dies on our turn, aka Gong NP, we would actually be able to fully use the 3 turns of his damage cut :'v The same case also apply to Avicebron's on death Invul skill... I think. Sorry not sorry for the long rant :'v
Thanks Myst! I really enjoyed the stream! This tier list really feels more comfortable than the Saber tier list, as if this one is much more objective, not far-fetched and without excess in criticism of characters
I might write a whole essay later describing my desired kit for Takasugi. But in the meantime, he should have been more unique man, like Ptolemaios levels of unique ):
Gotta say I love these so much, even if I have a good idea of what you guys think by now. It's like a nice summary of everything that has changed in fgo up until now. Definitely one of the highlight of a new year for me, is when this series starts up again.
Man the musashi situation is both hilarious and kinda sad (from a gameplay standpoint), and even more hilarious is you putting her in there, loved it lol. Thankfully this time I didn't loose the latest wellfare from the list, even if she isn't as broken as goku grindset saber. As always really fun to watch the tier list, the whole video. Can't wait for next week :)
Jarcher is actually awesome at 1 job: farming zerkers She has insane refund which is important with berserkers and her anti zerk append + effective damage transforms her weak damage into actually pretty solid number. I actually never use her vs saber she spishtar blows her out of the water tbh lol, but when it comes to berserker farming she is actually really solid and usually my go to.
I believe Archer Barghest deserved an A, or at least to talk a liiitle bit more about her synergy in Mash(since she DOES count as a low star for Baghrests 1st skill) and Castoria comps for CQs. Reducing the cooldowns of those two is kinda huge, and they can cycle 2 different targeted invuls to protect Barghest, who in turn gives THEM 1 turn invul. She basically takes Merlin's slot in that comp, but now you actually have like 6 times the damage output.
I know you guys got worried sometimes about certain tiers getting bloated, but I think that's just the nature of the game balance. Some classes in particular just have a bunch of really similar value Servants.
Biggest disagreement for me is Summer Illya. The looping spreadsheet doesnt do her justice. She can black grail loop with triple skadi. I've also had great success using her as a DPS. She has some survivability, nuclear crits, consistent star gen, healing (even though it's RNG). I cleared some of the last grail fronts singlehandedly using her. A+ for me but full disclosure, I am biased, as she's one of my favorites.
2:55:00 I definitely agree with you Myst. I feel like our community can turn into echo chambers because most people don’t roll every unit and we tend to be biased towards units we use and against those we don’t have experience with. I prefer these tier lists with multiple hosts because i can get multiple different perspectives. I feel like you can tell when someone doesn’t have a lot of experience with a unit that they review and it makes me start to question how much i can trust that person’s opinions. I greatly prefer to hear multiple perspectives because your copy and someone else’s copy aren’t always the same and sometimes you need a friend to convince you to give a unit a second look Cheers gentlemen thanks again for another great smobcast- i mean tier list 😂
Tametomo’s big problem other than a lack of an NP upgrade is his third skill. It is a bit undertuned. If it was upgraded to give 20% charge per turn instead of 10%, he would be more flexible compared to other buster farmers. On top of that, he doesn’t get his first stack of NP damage until the turn after activation. I’d fix it to give him the NP dmg up upon activation as well as a ramping defense up for flavor. Save my boi Edit: Also at the time of this comment a bunch of Traum servants got buffed, but not Tametomo
EMIYA needs a 3 turns rainbow 🌈 buff on his skill 3. It also needs to give him extra buffs that allow him to get his NP back faster as well as give him a significant Crit Star Gather Rate Up.
well his trademark is "jack of trades master of none" so i think if there should be any final buff it should be to his 1st skill that gives like 3 turns of invul or something like that to the entire team (referring to rho aias)
Emiya is a personal A. That dude can slide into an absurd number of compositions f2p or whale depending on the battle. That atk down saves a good number of cqs and fights
22:52 if we’re talking about supports that give stars per turn don’t forget we also have Himiko whose also a buster support and yui who’s an omni/quick and buster support
@1:42:21 You can technically *"dodge"* Sugitani cards by card reshuffling with either the MC for it, or Bunnytoria. Or you can just use Summer BB (X1 or X2) to ensure that she can ramp up her Crit Up and NP buffs. But if some people are too impatient to wait for even Salome's *"7 turn"* skill 3 to cast its NP charge buff or Kingprotea to reach max stacks of her ramp up *"10 turn"* Growth Up buff, then why would they wait for Sugitani to ramp up too. IMHO, the best buff for Sugitani would be to give her an Order Change skill Strengthening Up that *automatically* sends her to the frontline 3 turns after her skill finishes ramping up. This would give you the option to either leave her on the frontline and risk the dangerous game of accidentally using her cards, or letting her have the ultimate invulnerability by ramping up safely in the backline. Or it could have been a bond CE that automatically sends her to the frontline after sending her to the backline right after her ramp up skill is activated.
As someone with a level 100 Chen Gong and a level 80 Arash I don't regret either of them. even in the buster looping meta you can get around annoying comps with arash still if you've invested in him even just a little bit.
I usually don't comment but I am genuinely curious about something, sorry if this was asked already. What changed in your opinion to change the placement of S.Helena so drastically compared to last year? You put her in A or A+ but now she is back down to the bottom tiers? Was it just a blunder last year or getting swept up in the "she can BG loop now" hype? Cause you defended her a bit when people said she should be moved down last year but now without much of a discussion she is bad again. I am not a fan of hers at all but it's a bit jarring when you remember last years lists. Besides that, thanks for providing me with entertainment during work with these!❤
I wanna say, about the discussion of billy being unable to gen stars. Yes, there's plenty ways of generating stars out of cards and it doesn't need to be a problem always, but the card gen will be useful for when the buffs run out. A good example is lancer Caenis, who also wants to be doing crits non stop. She can generate good stars with her cards only. I use her a lot for solos and there's not one turn, with buffs or without them, that she can't land a crit. I wouldn't say the same for billy without the help of command codes. I'm this same regard, I used Altera for years cuz I liked the character and she's definitely better at getting stars than billy. She's handicapped by her own S3, but you can solve that with tamamo command code, with billy you need to sacrifice using crit damage codes and use instead crit gen codes which does make a number on her damage when his buffs are not up.
Just wanna say I love these videos as background noise as well as the insight. it really does feel like a podcast and I can just have it playing while I’m grinding on FGO or anything else. thanks Myst 🙏
So much time was spent discussing OG Tristan, and to my knowledge, no one brought up that the skill utility nearly always goes to waste. If you are spamming your NP for damage, you'll need to use his s1 and s2 turn 1 because s1 is his steroid and without s1, s2 forces you to stall NPs for a turn. The only safe time you can simply eat the NP seal without cleansing it is during down turns when getting back his NP is also no longer a priority. And by using the S1 turn 1, the healing, enemy NP mitigation, and cleanse is also whiffing. And if you don't use it turn 1, then his damage drops below other archers with similar utility. If the steroid was on S3 it would be completely different as there's a decent chance you will want to purge buffs also on the turns you ramp up damage output. Either you make use of his above average damage, or you can manage to use one of his many s1 utility effects. It's just a very awkward set of skills with effects that look good on paper. Chiron has a more flexible skillset by comparison, but unless he's hitting earth, his damage is only brought up to other top archers by his interlude and doesn't exceed them... except in the narrow case that he and his competitor are both NP1 when he benefits the most. Even then, the damage is not insurmountably higher. Other archers have better stats and steroids, making for an equivalent NP even without the interlude. I'd definitely take his defensive buff purge on NP over Tristan's buff removal every 5 turns, though. Do either of these things affect the tier placements? No clue. But Chloe is too high for such an empty kit with a 1 turn steroid to affect the NP that is the only reason you'd ever take her, but that was discussed in the video. Those ST gold archers are quite tough to compare.
You guys completly missed the point on Emyia Archer. As far as is mi experience, I do NP Arts, and depending with who you team him up which gives a lot of versatility you may do np arts again or, next turn I do NP Buster when with Gilgamesh you cant acomplish that feat. The thing going for Gilgamesh is his hits, Emyia has limited hits and less attack but surpases on survivability. Now, compared to Gilgamesh, Emyias crit its still superior and most of the time, you do more without NP. He is a servant that goes all around but if studied, he is the most versatile archer and its quite cheap to upgrade. Like a 900% Arts damage to do it twice and third turn an buster np with 600% damage is still no joke, considering you lower enemys damage by 20-30% already, you ad 18% defence of Emyias skill and he all of a sudden survives for a double NP again. I dont believe you ranked this Servants properly based on experienece from todays changes.
Damage IS a joke though from the NP. Because of you switching card types, you can't properly support his damage. Sure it's nice you basically refund for free with the Arts NP but I'd rather bring someone who is full Arts at that point and just get more damage too because the supports would make the amazing refund redundant anyway for the most part. You are heavily overrating the versatility of the card type switch.
@@MystFGO the point is that arts buffs you use it on 100% crit damage later. Im saying that Emyia is not "EX" servant but definetly not that low, by the time you have Gilgamesh maxed out I have already maxed Emyia and passed the story with him.
I'm a bit salty about the Napoleon placement, considering his damage is practically unstoppable and is only slightly lower than Ishtar in farming. In my opinion, any competitive Buster farmer should never be placed lower than A. Always happy to see Chiron appreciation, guy is super versatile, I even used my NP2 Chiron in one of the Tunguska raids with good efficiency. Can never value defensive buff removal enough as well.
My thoughts on the tier list: Despite the controversies in Chat/with plushie I have a lot less to say here than the saber tier list, overall much better than Sabers Arash: I think he is one of the few where double Summer chloe is relevant because he is a 1 star. Party cost is the usual issue there, and Arash being a 1 star fixes that. This obviously doesn’t change his placement, because he is already EX. Robin absolutely should be EX. Unless the enemy is debuff immune/has high resistance or some niche/utility that isn’t already covered by Castoria comes into play, I would never take another ST archer for DPS. Even Super Orion loses at NP1. (seriously, taking their best scenario: 148k average crits+732k average NP vs 860k with crits and no NP if you don’t include the wild beast mod) Plus he is Arts with all the benefits of that. Even comparing everyone at NP5, and considering crits, Robin Hood is the 4th highest damage ST archer in the entire game despite being a 3 star. And that is being generous to the archers that rely on crit damage to close the gap, the spreadsheets ignore that you aren’t going to get that full damage all the time. You only have 5 cards every 3 turns. So if Robin Hood NPs twice or more in 3 turns, those crit based archers are going to struggle hard to keep up. He even runs proto merlin+Castoria or double Castoria for great defense on top of offense. Emiya is way more usable than you have him at. He should be A. I still use Emiya as both a farmer and a DPS sometimes, despite having Tesla. But if you run him multicore (for example having Oberon clear wave 1) he does enough damage to do lower end nodes with just Oberon and Castoria support, no need to run plug. And while the split nature of supports means he can’t match Zenobia in damage, he does have more flexibility in farming. I have also run Crit farming comps with him (though the last time I did that was on NA with the land of shadows lotto rerun well over a year ago). Granted I am not sure I would use Emiya as often if I had a dedicated arts looping archer like Zenobia who could loop 6CE without plug. But even so, he feels drastically misplaced compared to everyone else around him. Gil being EX I am not sure about. He is carried by his damage and wave 2 (where buster often struggles the most anyway)his damage is lower than Tesla and Ishtar despite being higher wave 1 and 3. He has much worse defense than Tesla, 20% less battery, no pierce invul. His gains aren’t even that insane. Tesla has better arts cards and quick cards (though a worse extra). Also, when your only niche is damage and Summer Musashi comes along and beats you in damage, it hurts you worse than someone with other niches like pierce invul and a 50% battery. 1/1/1 looping isn’t super practical for an AoE servant if you have ST servants. But 1/1/3 can be and requires the same refund. I think being able to handle 1/1/X is more useful for an AoE than some give credit for. Ptolemy is super awkward compared to Melusine, because Melusine can’t reuse the skill when she is arts, but can in buster, which is where she needs it most anyway.
Again, such a fun and entertaining thermistor to watch be made. Wish Emita wasn't so gimped like so many servants from Year One, but still fun and informational. Keep up the amazing work!
Why have whe a so low number of archer class servants, who actually are using bows? I came on 7 servants, who are using bows as there main weapon. And by 2 of them am i not sure, if they use the bow as main weapon (Archer of Inferno and the rice guy)
I can count 15 of them using bow (although few of them didnt use bows as their main weapon) Well, emiya being the OG archer of the fate series seems like effecting the whole archer classes
I want a Servant that sends themselves to the backline for a few turns while they charge a ramp up ATK UP or Special ATK UP or something similar. Then I want them to return to the frontline AFTER they finish charging their ramp up buff. Kinda like if Salome sent herself to the backline to protect herself while she waits for her skill 3 to cast. I got the inspiration from the new 3 star Archer, Sugitani, that stacks up ramp up buffs. That and Miss Crane's order change NP. Or it could be another order change skill. All that matters to me is that the hypothetical order change Servant automatically swaps back to the frontline after sending themselves to the backline after several turns have elapsed.
I love this idea! Not only is it creative as shit but this immediately made my brain go "oh, like how you would never put a spell caster on the front line... ... Wait a second, we have an entire class of those!" Somehow it never clicked to me how odd/funny it is that FGO has a front/back line but it never actually get used like you would in virtually any other game 😂 like even Final Fantasy on the NES you would move your mages back and your melee units to the front 🤷♂️
A couple I would move in a and a+ as well as Illya to b+ as she is a servant ive used a ton so have a pretty good feel for her. But half tier shifts are not a big deal
Summer Jeanne could definitely use an NP buff, but until then, she _is_ still a Black Grail looper, thanks to her excellent refund. She even has some Oberon synergy, if you need to really push third wave damage.
I have a 10/10/10 NP2 Moriarty, I use him regularly and I can confidently say that A is too high for him. He should have been B+ or lower and its mostly because of how terrible his deck is. Buster NP with 3 Arts might be the worst possible deck, combine that with very low NP gain on arts and a pathetic 3-hit quick makes his deck one of the worst among 5*. Also because every saber has resistance the def debuff on the NP fails way too frequently and is very inconsistent. That does in fact hurt his damage more than it should, since he doesn't have many steroids or buffed np. Aside from that I'm glad you re-evaluated Saika. Thanks for the video Myst.
Honestly, in theory, the Caster deck would've been one of the best decks in the game, if the Servants themselves doesn't have a naturally low or gimped NP gain or low hit counts. I know it's for the sake of "balance", but I still don't like it, especially when the trade off isn't worth it.
Thank you for taking the time to make these tier lists, really love the discussions you have. One suggestion I do have is to make better use of the bottom tiers, since shifting everything down will give more space to accurately depict the differences in the higher tiers (and make more people mad that their favorite servants are too low which is fun to watch). This list just had no one in E and D tier, so shifting most of the list down a half or full tier would have helped organize the A/A+ tiers, which is where most of the final adjustments are concentrated.
I understand but it really comes down to how one treats the tiers. The way I treat them is that if a Servant is good, they get a good tier and vice versa. I'm not gonna start dragging people down to rank them in an order better. Like basically you would be asking for us to put stuff in E for the worst archer because they happen to be the lowest of the rankings but imo that would be unfair for the Servant if I don't think they are actually that bad. So really it's just a preference thing.
1 time Kid Gil ended up being useful for me was when I decided that my first clear of Kiara would be without whip, and the only team I could come up with was double Merlin + Kid Gil. Since Large Kiara does buff-stripping before damage, the only way to survive her NP is by debuffing her to do less damage, and Kid Gil was the only one in my Chaldea who did enough of that reliably. Still have a screenshot of the last turn from that fight, a total of 137)
Excited for the archer tier list :D also just a heads up, the link in the description that's supposed to take you to the AOE NP Looping damage spreadsheet links to the ST damage spreadsheet instead
Could make an argument for EX honestly. I have him grailed to level 90 and is my main Archer DPS due to no 5 star in that class (which is insane considering I have 30+ SSR's). He's just so consistent and gets better the longer a fight goes. He's NP2 and he nukes enemies by himself with no outside support. He's too good man.
@@NobuNobuSimp same, mines lv100 tho only np1. His crits+def down are so insane, he can take down even class neutral enemies with 400k HP by himself. Love him fr
Gil and tesla have the problem that if You don't fight vs servant lost so much potential, the better in general is ishtar because isnt depend of niches
Dude if I was getting interrupted multiple times per servant and I was a *guest* on this long stream, I'd reconsider coming back. Don't ask me to be a guest and then not let me talk, like what am I here for?
Lol as the only adult here il comment. You kill the vibe with such an outburst. As a guest you never act like that. Justified or not. It’s social retardation. He’s so weird. Awkward af on his podcast too. Great representation of the community fam! 😂
I used Kiyohime with Paris!🤭 I thought I invented this combo myself and thought it was so smart too hahah 😆 😅I used to do this combo for farming octuplet crystals in Camelot. That node had 2 waves of enemies and a strong single enemy as a 3rd wave. I used Arash for the 1st wave, Kiyohime for the 2nd and Paris for the mini boss. Castoria also helped. I didn't know about looping, so just taking 3 characters with 3 Kscopes was my idea of a 3 turn farming
As a Archer Artoria enjoyer with a NP5 LV120 copy. I'm still very sad from that skill buff. Yea that buff would have so much better on Artemis Archer Artoria buff should have been a NP buff instead. Even if its just damage buff and they keep the drain at 70%. I feel like Archer Artoria with 100% drain would be ridicilous.
Guys, I’ve playing for almost 3 years now, and I still don’t have a single 5* Archer, i have all cards supported, with that in mind what Anii 7th GSSR Archer banners should go for 😢?
The Emiya Alter downplay is crazy, easily the best ST farmer of the class and yet somehow 3 tiers below Squirtoria. Plus his nice defensive skill (not tied to any demerit like Squirtoria) and utility on his NP makes him fine even outside his main role.
For Tomoe Gozen maybe increased damage to burning enemies on her first skill as well as the attack increased to 20 or 22 and the np dmg to 30. Second skill just add a crit dmg buff. Third maybe a 30% battery.
Idky they shat so hard on EMIYAs 3rd skill buff. He can black grail loop with no suit because of it…. Im not saying hes an amazing unit by any means cause his dmg from his np is pretty bad, but i dont think his second buff to his third skill “did nothing”. Thats a VERY hot take imo
in defense of UDK barghest, she loops well enough with 2 castoria + xu fu from my experience(np1), but single target ? give up, she wont refund shit, i think she could be a bit higher but i cant disagree on the placement exactly
Honestly I think Archer Astoria should be EX. Her damage with double Castoria is fantastic. But her defense is ridiculous. Like c’mon now. 70% to reduce a charge? I get if this was a normal NP that you did every 2-5 turns and you don’t think it’s going to land often. But with double Castoria you’re going to np every single turn. You can essentially lock out a boss from their NP, plus you have healing, and party defense, plus Castoria’s dodges. That’s absolutely insane. What single target arts archer comes close? She’s so easy to cheese bosses and to control fights it’s ridiculous. You say she needs ‘a bit of damage’ but I say nping every turn makes up for that plus outshines every other archers defense by effectively negating the np
I think both Ishtar and Jarcher are EX. Ishtar has just really nice NP and crit damage, just cause it isn't higher than Gills...doesn't mean it's not there. When she crits on her Buster Card the damage is just "cheffs kiss" nice and you can buster loop with her cause 50% battery. Jarcher...I have no idea how you can just sit there and say that she doesn't do damage when she can 3T farm with a black grail without any problems...even if you don't have Castoria of your own you can get away with a Tamamo Caster or just another 50% career and she loops without any problems...you literally have a free pick on any CE (Black grail) and Mystic Code that you can put on her to loop...her numbers don't go sky high but the question is if you need them to go Sky High...This is my personal experience, I do have her NP3 and I am working on getting her to lvl 120 but...dem coins. The main thing is that you don't really just put a 50% charge CE on her and think she's gonna do damage like Gil...naa dawg, you put that BBG and let her cook! Besides her numbers, her kit is just well rounded, she has attack up, she has a 2 hit 3 turn invincibility tied to a 40% battery and NP damage for 3turns effect, and she has that arts up...everything you need really, you can compensate for the low numbers with Gold Fous and just play her more till you get a good feel for her.
Jarcher isn’t ex because Ptolemy and Durga are just better than her and can bg loop. Jarcher suffers from her really low attack and the refund difference between Durga and Jarcher is minimal and ptolomy has an 80% battery which just makes bg looping completely brainless. I would argue Durga is the best of the 3 because of her rainbow buff giving synergy with Yui as well as her damage being one of highest of any archers in the entire game when her sp damage conditions are met (demonic and/or sky enemies). Np1 Durga vs demonic enemies is equivalent to np4 Jarcher with same support (no yui) and ce.
If Archer is "bad" cause most of the Servants got the 2Q/2A deck, wait till the Rider class, the other class with the most number of Servants with this deck type 🤭
I do too. He uses his buffs on Demon Nobu, Waver/Merlin brings his NP to 100, he uses his NP and brings out (support) Himiko while buffing Demon Nobu even further.
The absolute best part of this video is the Santa Altera section. I don't think I've seen any of you as heated about anything as you guys were about the Santa Altera vs Billy the Kid argument. It was the most intense mid off in history and a 10/10 experience.
Wait till you see Illya vs Sanzang in the Caster tier list
*"Archer class are really made out of Archers."*
Me, sees Ptolemy: *"BULL, RIN!! RESPECTFULLY, BULL!!"*
I hope the guests become a main stay in these tierlists, makes them more interesting
Agreed. Otto was a welcomed edition to the Plushie and Myst duo.
They do bring great alternative POVs. I just really would like to hear their full comments instead of constant interruptions. If I was getting talked over that much, I wouldn't come back, but also if it's normal for how these guys interact with each other and they're all cool with it, it's not as bad.
Two is a company. 3 a crowd
every year they should add one new guest so that when EOS year comes it's just a whole chorus of people
I like how arash has golden borders instead of the bronze one.
as He deserves
Surely most players would have him grained to 80 at minimum
*Posts 6 and 1/2 hour video right before I go to sleep*
well played
Emiya went from EX, to A to B over the course of the three tier lists, you would think they would be nerfing him 😂
That what happens when new servants cover his perks 😂
The game is not ready for Emiya. Gilgamesh level is still acceptable. Emiya's original level of Art NP is not.
If they did not nerf him, he would be the king of Art loop...from the beginning of the game.
@@cynt4416But he had a buster only NP?
@@BygoneT In one of the oldest trailer of FGO, people clearly saw his Art NP. Never made it into the official game tho, too broken.
@@cynt4416 I see. Maybe his noodle damage in the original release was meant to be to balance the arts refund. Awful decision, but still.
Tametomo was kinda tragic. The way he was teased in Traum makes you think he would be an NP focused unit but you would need alot more steroids if you want to be a new NP focused unit since no NP upgrade anytime soon.
Barghest (Archer) is pronounced "Barcher"
Barchester*
Gilgamesh in EX. Love to see it!
About time. I have been FUMING for an entire year.
Cant watch the video rn. Why is he suddenly ex? Nothing changed since last time.
@@milten76 I don't remember if it was buffed before the vid, but it's probably his charisma buff that elevated him to EX. It practically made his NP hit much much harder than before. Remember, the best buffs a Buster looper can have is either a Attack up or NP damage up to multiply it to the Buster ups Double Koyan gives out. Gil has the best of both worlds, having a 5 turn 21% Attack up and 20% NP damage up to stack for 2nd wave, effectively having 42% Attack up and 40% NP damage up on the 2nd and 3rd turn(don't forget the 30% NP damage up on his NP for one turn). Remember that ik farming, Gil also has the best boost in damage in the game, Oberon, making his numbers pretty much close to that of a single target Buster NP. Having a 20 star bomb also helps for things like CQs.
Only ones that come close to his third turn damage is either Tesla with the same set up or a double Summer Chloe Arash, though Tesla has an Advantage with having less resources used on him being that he has a 50% NP charge compared to Gil's 30%.
@@milten76Not necessarilly but he shouldve been EX from the beginning
@@Urd-Vidan Great summary bro. His buff just made him a bigger friend of Oberon.
Any Servant with NP Up is Oberon's friend but now Gil is only getting better.
They had to buff him to make him catch up with his competition.
Power creep and such.
I'm still mad that the 2023 anniversary ssr archer buff went to archuria. It should've been arjuna
Man is literally rotting in e-sports hell.
This. He's my main archer along with Tesla, and he's doing pretty good job since his synergy with Merlin and Castoria is very good imo (I often bring him more when doing stories). But I agree he needs more buffs, same with Artemis
@@rururiri7814 I do bring him to stories
But i want to see him as an A+ dps
@@terra_chad2905 same here pal :') he's one of my fav personality wise, and is treated well in my chaldea (bond 11, np2, still trying to 2000/2000 him). I give his art card fou's paws so if it set correctly, 1 crit art card can fill 70% of his np bar.
I hope people could give him a chance to shine and use him before burning him 😢
@@rururiri7814 everyone can do a great work between merlin and caltria
@@ReInvader this is very true. That's specifically why i think Arjuna could get another buff because if it's just him alone he can be very underwhelming
Tesla was my first SSR back in 2017 and I finally managed to get him to 120. I try and clear every challenge quest at least once with a team built around him, and it almost always works thanks to the insane damage and survivability (plus supporting his supports with NP gain). Can't wait to never miss his second skill ever again after the upcoming buff. Love to see the EX placement :)
I really needed an ssr archer and when I got the free 5 star ticket Tesla seemed the obvious choice. Never regretted it.
LOL, Summer Musashi makes EX on the archer tier list.
noticeably there's not actually a lot of great dps options for archers in boss killing / CQ. You have orion, and gil (who is kinda situational, and not great against a lot of LB bosses as they're not servants), and that's about it. So it kinda makes sense that a berserker ends up here.
Hey Myst can you vocalize more stuff on screen more? Sometimes you don't say things like final ratings or refund/damage numbers. I love listening to your content in the car like a podcast but it sucks when you don't say the final rating and I'm left wondering what it is because I can't check my phone in the middle of the highway.
Yeah makes sense, I'll try to at least mention placements vocally if I remember.
@@MystFGO Thank you! If you can just say the final placement of the previous servant right before starting the next servant, that will be plenty.
Tametomo had good utility with Double Bypass, but whoever thought giving him a 1 Hit NP Damage Buff should get their brain checked
Barghest. why the hell do they still give her a crap attack stats. It's worse now that she also need to deal with Archer Class Damage penalty. That and her S2's cooldown is kinda overpriced since she only gets a 30% Charge
Durga. Honestly, really wish they gave her a more synergistic Niche. Sky has the least coverage compare to the 3 Common Attribute and Ibuki is the only one that can get the full damage from her NP
Ah yes, kinda sad Tametomo got disrespected like that.. I mean, in the Bakin event, he's introduced as a literal world destroying Archer with his massive nuke arrow. He's completely different Archer than an anti personnel ones like Chiron and Tell, and he also do not have any divine "blast" attack like Ishtar and Arjuna. So it makes sense that he requires time to charge his massive arrow.
But one hit only, then all the NP buff gone the next turn? Even then 5 turn stacking NP damage won't make him like OP top tier must have servants. 5 turn is one hell of a long time. Waiting 5 turn without using NP will severely hurt his damage output. Bcs once they use NP, all his stacks are vanish. Sure, they can be paired amazingly with Oberon to deal comically large numbers, but again...
5 turns waiting without NPing to achieve that? Such a joke..
On the few comments about talking over others, I think it's mostly fine, but you do have a habit of cutting the other hosts off when you know what they're about to say. You might as well let them finish the point themselves
Activate on "death" buffs are kinda hard to understand, in plushie's case, on Shana Oh CE on Yui comp, I *PRESUME* that he used it with a Gong NP to cycle the servant holding the CE out.
In this case, Shana Oh's Quick Up, would actually get activated on your turn, and a Full Turn actually consist of yours and the enemy's turn, with it's effect only lasting for 1 turn, Shana Oh's Quick up would actually only extend until the end of enemy's turn.
Different case when the CE holder dies with enemy's attack on enemy's turn (this also includes DoTs, because it activates After you finished your turn, a.k.a the start of enemy's turn), the CE effect of 1 turn would then extend on your next turn of attack, and then expire on enemy's turn.
This case can also be viewed with Offensive Guts activation effects, for example Leonidas. In one of my Video of recent F/SR CQ, a TA run of Chloe with bronze supports, you can see that Leonidas got his Guts activated for the first time at "Turn 2" with Takeru's NP a.k.a enemy's turn, which marks the start of his 20% aoe Atk Up of 3 turns.
Now if you fast forward to Turn 4, the transition to Turn 5, you can see that the Buffs that was casted on my turn on "Turn 2" (that lasts for 3 turns, aka Hans & Mata Hari) would expire, but not Leonidas' First Guts Activated Atk Up that's still up on Turn 5, even tho it got activated on Turn 2, but on enemy's turn.
Another weird Buff Duration case, is with NP gains, on normal categorization, NP Gain Ups are not treated as offensive buff, but expiration wise, it still is. You understand how the turn your 'Atk Up' is supposed to expire, the symbol would disappear on enemy's turn? It's the same with NP Gain Up, it won't be a full x turn(s).
Now, NP Gain Up 'when attacked' is a different buff than normal NP Gain Up, not a defensive buff, but expiration wise it is, hence why it ends at enemy's turn, it makes sense. But why not normal NP Gain Up? >:(
This also somewhat explain why they give Bazette that one Unique Passive, extending the duration of her offensive buffs.
Now... mentioning defensive buff's duration, ONE THING, I griped the most, is the bamboozling with George's Bond CE.
IF he dies on enemy's turn, which is the normal usage with his taunt, his Bond CE's Defensive Buffs WILL activate on that Enemy's Turn, which means that it will expire right as Our Turn Ends, which complicate things because the Defensive Buffs we're used to have, will end after the enemies attack. But because the defensive buffs activates on enemy's turn, the buff's Display and Effects will still apply on our turn, but as soon as the enemy start their turn, George's Bond CE buffs disappears... :'v
Which means, effectively we will only have a *2 Turns* of 1 Hit Invul and Damage Cut, IF George dies by enemy attack with his taunt active. IF George dies on our turn, aka Gong NP, we would actually be able to fully use the 3 turns of his damage cut :'v
The same case also apply to Avicebron's on death Invul skill... I think.
Sorry not sorry for the long rant :'v
Thanks Myst! I really enjoyed the stream! This tier list really feels more comfortable than the Saber tier list, as if this one is much more objective, not far-fetched and without excess in criticism of characters
I might write a whole essay later describing my desired kit for Takasugi.
But in the meantime, he should have been more unique man, like Ptolemaios levels of unique ):
Gotta say I love these so much, even if I have a good idea of what you guys think by now. It's like a nice summary of everything that has changed in fgo up until now. Definitely one of the highlight of a new year for me, is when this series starts up again.
Man the musashi situation is both hilarious and kinda sad (from a gameplay standpoint), and even more hilarious is you putting her in there, loved it lol. Thankfully this time I didn't loose the latest wellfare from the list, even if she isn't as broken as goku grindset saber.
As always really fun to watch the tier list, the whole video. Can't wait for next week :)
Jarcher is actually awesome at 1 job: farming zerkers
She has insane refund which is important with berserkers and her anti zerk append + effective damage transforms her weak damage into actually pretty solid number. I actually never use her vs saber she spishtar blows her out of the water tbh lol, but when it comes to berserker farming she is actually really solid and usually my go to.
I use her with x2 Castoria on Oxford to 3 turn bond primary. Very good unit
Ayo Thanks for posting Myst! Love the tier lists gonna be watching the whole thing like always.
I believe Archer Barghest deserved an A, or at least to talk a liiitle bit more about her synergy in Mash(since she DOES count as a low star for Baghrests 1st skill) and Castoria comps for CQs. Reducing the cooldowns of those two is kinda huge, and they can cycle 2 different targeted invuls to protect Barghest, who in turn gives THEM 1 turn invul. She basically takes Merlin's slot in that comp, but now you actually have like 6 times the damage output.
I know you guys got worried sometimes about certain tiers getting bloated, but I think that's just the nature of the game balance. Some classes in particular just have a bunch of really similar value Servants.
Biggest disagreement for me is Summer Illya. The looping spreadsheet doesnt do her justice. She can black grail loop with triple skadi. I've also had great success using her as a DPS. She has some survivability, nuclear crits, consistent star gen, healing (even though it's RNG). I cleared some of the last grail fronts singlehandedly using her. A+ for me but full disclosure, I am biased, as she's one of my favorites.
2:55:00 I definitely agree with you Myst. I feel like our community can turn into echo chambers because most people don’t roll every unit and we tend to be biased towards units we use and against those we don’t have experience with.
I prefer these tier lists with multiple hosts because i can get multiple different perspectives. I feel like you can tell when someone doesn’t have a lot of experience with a unit that they review and it makes me start to question how much i can trust that person’s opinions. I greatly prefer to hear multiple perspectives because your copy and someone else’s copy aren’t always the same and sometimes you need a friend to convince you to give a unit a second look
Cheers gentlemen thanks again for another great smobcast- i mean tier list 😂
I think summer musashi should have had an extra slot for saber destroyer xD
Tametomo’s big problem other than a lack of an NP upgrade is his third skill. It is a bit undertuned. If it was upgraded to give 20% charge per turn instead of 10%, he would be more flexible compared to other buster farmers. On top of that, he doesn’t get his first stack of NP damage until the turn after activation.
I’d fix it to give him the NP dmg up upon activation as well as a ramping defense up for flavor.
Save my boi
Edit: Also at the time of this comment a bunch of Traum servants got buffed, but not Tametomo
EMIYA needs a 3 turns rainbow 🌈 buff on his skill 3. It also needs to give him extra buffs that allow him to get his NP back faster as well as give him a significant Crit Star Gather Rate Up.
Is an sr, you wont expect one mini ishtar in one free character
@@ReInvaderbro, he isn free. You have to roll him with SQ.
well his trademark is "jack of trades master of none" so i think if there should be any final buff it should be to his 1st skill that gives like 3 turns of invul or something like that to the entire team (referring to rho aias)
Emiya is a personal A. That dude can slide into an absurd number of compositions f2p or whale depending on the battle.
That atk down saves a good number of cqs and fights
Euryale and Robin in A+
Based as always 😊👍
22:52 if we’re talking about supports that give stars per turn don’t forget we also have Himiko whose also a buster support and yui who’s an omni/quick and buster support
@1:42:21
You can technically *"dodge"* Sugitani cards by card reshuffling with either the MC for it, or Bunnytoria.
Or you can just use Summer BB (X1 or X2) to ensure that she can ramp up her Crit Up and NP buffs.
But if some people are too impatient to wait for even Salome's *"7 turn"* skill 3 to cast its NP charge buff or Kingprotea to reach max stacks of her ramp up *"10 turn"* Growth Up buff, then why would they wait for Sugitani to ramp up too.
IMHO, the best buff for Sugitani would be to give her an Order Change skill Strengthening Up that *automatically* sends her to the frontline 3 turns after her skill finishes ramping up. This would give you the option to either leave her on the frontline and risk the dangerous game of accidentally using her cards, or letting her have the ultimate invulnerability by ramping up safely in the backline.
Or it could have been a bond CE that automatically sends her to the frontline after sending her to the backline right after her ramp up skill is activated.
As someone with a level 100 Chen Gong and a level 80 Arash I don't regret either of them. even in the buster looping meta you can get around annoying comps with arash still if you've invested in him even just a little bit.
I usually don't comment but I am genuinely curious about something, sorry if this was asked already.
What changed in your opinion to change the placement of S.Helena so drastically compared to last year?
You put her in A or A+ but now she is back down to the bottom tiers?
Was it just a blunder last year or getting swept up in the "she can BG loop now" hype?
Cause you defended her a bit when people said she should be moved down last year but now without much of a discussion she is bad again.
I am not a fan of hers at all but it's a bit jarring when you remember last years lists.
Besides that, thanks for providing me with entertainment during work with these!❤
Guess I’m staying up till morning watching this 😅
Appreciate the time you guys put into this 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
LMAO, Summer musashi buff ironically making her double class Archer/Berseker and its made on top of the list. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wanna say, about the discussion of billy being unable to gen stars. Yes, there's plenty ways of generating stars out of cards and it doesn't need to be a problem always, but the card gen will be useful for when the buffs run out.
A good example is lancer Caenis, who also wants to be doing crits non stop. She can generate good stars with her cards only. I use her a lot for solos and there's not one turn, with buffs or without them, that she can't land a crit. I wouldn't say the same for billy without the help of command codes.
I'm this same regard, I used Altera for years cuz I liked the character and she's definitely better at getting stars than billy. She's handicapped by her own S3, but you can solve that with tamamo command code, with billy you need to sacrifice using crit damage codes and use instead crit gen codes which does make a number on her damage when his buffs are not up.
Seeing Paris causing discord in opinions was very fun to see.
I love archers and it's sad to see that the best damage dealers against their counter class (Sabers) are from other classes.
I still think Base Tristan should have stayed in A+. He has so much utility and his np is upgraded so he does decent damage too.
Finally! I'm on the weekly tier list needle now
Just wanna say I love these videos as background noise as well as the insight. it really does feel like a podcast and I can just have it playing while I’m grinding on FGO or anything else. thanks Myst 🙏
So much time was spent discussing OG Tristan, and to my knowledge, no one brought up that the skill utility nearly always goes to waste. If you are spamming your NP for damage, you'll need to use his s1 and s2 turn 1 because s1 is his steroid and without s1, s2 forces you to stall NPs for a turn. The only safe time you can simply eat the NP seal without cleansing it is during down turns when getting back his NP is also no longer a priority. And by using the S1 turn 1, the healing, enemy NP mitigation, and cleanse is also whiffing. And if you don't use it turn 1, then his damage drops below other archers with similar utility. If the steroid was on S3 it would be completely different as there's a decent chance you will want to purge buffs also on the turns you ramp up damage output. Either you make use of his above average damage, or you can manage to use one of his many s1 utility effects. It's just a very awkward set of skills with effects that look good on paper.
Chiron has a more flexible skillset by comparison, but unless he's hitting earth, his damage is only brought up to other top archers by his interlude and doesn't exceed them... except in the narrow case that he and his competitor are both NP1 when he benefits the most. Even then, the damage is not insurmountably higher. Other archers have better stats and steroids, making for an equivalent NP even without the interlude. I'd definitely take his defensive buff purge on NP over Tristan's buff removal every 5 turns, though.
Do either of these things affect the tier placements? No clue. But Chloe is too high for such an empty kit with a 1 turn steroid to affect the NP that is the only reason you'd ever take her, but that was discussed in the video. Those ST gold archers are quite tough to compare.
You guys completly missed the point on Emyia Archer. As far as is mi experience, I do NP Arts, and depending with who you team him up which gives a lot of versatility you may do np arts again or, next turn I do NP Buster when with Gilgamesh you cant acomplish that feat. The thing going for Gilgamesh is his hits, Emyia has limited hits and less attack but surpases on survivability. Now, compared to Gilgamesh, Emyias crit its still superior and most of the time, you do more without NP. He is a servant that goes all around but if studied, he is the most versatile archer and its quite cheap to upgrade. Like a 900% Arts damage to do it twice and third turn an buster np with 600% damage is still no joke, considering you lower enemys damage by 20-30% already, you ad 18% defence of Emyias skill and he all of a sudden survives for a double NP again. I dont believe you ranked this Servants properly based on experienece from todays changes.
Damage IS a joke though from the NP. Because of you switching card types, you can't properly support his damage. Sure it's nice you basically refund for free with the Arts NP but I'd rather bring someone who is full Arts at that point and just get more damage too because the supports would make the amazing refund redundant anyway for the most part. You are heavily overrating the versatility of the card type switch.
@@MystFGO the point is that arts buffs you use it on 100% crit damage later. Im saying that Emyia is not "EX" servant but definetly not that low, by the time you have Gilgamesh maxed out I have already maxed Emyia and passed the story with him.
I'm a bit salty about the Napoleon placement, considering his damage is practically unstoppable and is only slightly lower than Ishtar in farming. In my opinion, any competitive Buster farmer should never be placed lower than A. Always happy to see Chiron appreciation, guy is super versatile, I even used my NP2 Chiron in one of the Tunguska raids with good efficiency. Can never value defensive buff removal enough as well.
The problem is all of him competition is to much better
My thoughts on the tier list:
Despite the controversies in Chat/with plushie I have a lot less to say here than the saber tier list, overall much better than Sabers
Arash: I think he is one of the few where double Summer chloe is relevant because he is a 1 star. Party cost is the usual issue there, and Arash being a 1 star fixes that. This obviously doesn’t change his placement, because he is already EX.
Robin absolutely should be EX. Unless the enemy is debuff immune/has high resistance or some niche/utility that isn’t already covered by Castoria comes into play, I would never take another ST archer for DPS. Even Super Orion loses at NP1. (seriously, taking their best scenario: 148k average crits+732k average NP vs 860k with crits and no NP if you don’t include the wild beast mod) Plus he is Arts with all the benefits of that. Even comparing everyone at NP5, and considering crits, Robin Hood is the 4th highest damage ST archer in the entire game despite being a 3 star. And that is being generous to the archers that rely on crit damage to close the gap, the spreadsheets ignore that you aren’t going to get that full damage all the time. You only have 5 cards every 3 turns. So if Robin Hood NPs twice or more in 3 turns, those crit based archers are going to struggle hard to keep up. He even runs proto merlin+Castoria or double Castoria for great defense on top of offense.
Emiya is way more usable than you have him at. He should be A. I still use Emiya as both a farmer and a DPS sometimes, despite having Tesla. But if you run him multicore (for example having Oberon clear wave 1) he does enough damage to do lower end nodes with just Oberon and Castoria support, no need to run plug. And while the split nature of supports means he can’t match Zenobia in damage, he does have more flexibility in farming. I have also run Crit farming comps with him (though the last time I did that was on NA with the land of shadows lotto rerun well over a year ago). Granted I am not sure I would use Emiya as often if I had a dedicated arts looping archer like Zenobia who could loop 6CE without plug. But even so, he feels drastically misplaced compared to everyone else around him.
Gil being EX I am not sure about. He is carried by his damage and wave 2 (where buster often struggles the most anyway)his damage is lower than Tesla and Ishtar despite being higher wave 1 and 3. He has much worse defense than Tesla, 20% less battery, no pierce invul. His gains aren’t even that insane. Tesla has better arts cards and quick cards (though a worse extra). Also, when your only niche is damage and Summer Musashi comes along and beats you in damage, it hurts you worse than someone with other niches like pierce invul and a 50% battery.
1/1/1 looping isn’t super practical for an AoE servant if you have ST servants. But 1/1/3 can be and requires the same refund. I think being able to handle 1/1/X is more useful for an AoE than some give credit for. Ptolemy is super awkward compared to Melusine, because Melusine can’t reuse the skill when she is arts, but can in buster, which is where she needs it most anyway.
Again, such a fun and entertaining thermistor to watch be made. Wish Emita wasn't so gimped like so many servants from Year One, but still fun and informational. Keep up the amazing work!
So funny to come back to this video after Billy's 3rd skill has been gigabuffed the way it has.
Why have whe a so low number of archer class servants, who actually are using bows?
I came on 7 servants, who are using bows as there main weapon. And by 2 of them am i not sure, if they use the bow as main weapon (Archer of Inferno and the rice guy)
I can count 15 of them using bow (although few of them didnt use bows as their main weapon)
Well, emiya being the OG archer of the fate series seems like effecting the whole archer classes
I want a Servant that sends themselves to the backline for a few turns while they charge a ramp up ATK UP or Special ATK UP or something similar.
Then I want them to return to the frontline AFTER they finish charging their ramp up buff. Kinda like if Salome sent herself to the backline to protect herself while she waits for her skill 3 to cast.
I got the inspiration from the new 3 star Archer, Sugitani, that stacks up ramp up buffs. That and Miss Crane's order change NP. Or it could be another order change skill.
All that matters to me is that the hypothetical order change Servant automatically swaps back to the frontline after sending themselves to the backline after several turns have elapsed.
I love this idea! Not only is it creative as shit but this immediately made my brain go "oh, like how you would never put a spell caster on the front line... ... Wait a second, we have an entire class of those!" Somehow it never clicked to me how odd/funny it is that FGO has a front/back line but it never actually get used like you would in virtually any other game 😂 like even Final Fantasy on the NES you would move your mages back and your melee units to the front 🤷♂️
I was never this fast for a video !!!!
Fujino in A+, we won guys. sadly not EX this year but understandable. buff her second skill copium
A couple I would move in a and a+ as well as Illya to b+ as she is a servant ive used a ton so have a pretty good feel for her.
But half tier shifts are not a big deal
Summer Jeanne could definitely use an NP buff, but until then, she _is_ still a Black Grail looper, thanks to her excellent refund. She even has some Oberon synergy, if you need to really push third wave damage.
Kinda crazy how good gilgamesh is when 1 of his skill doesnt affect much on a buster servant
Him and Arjuna Alter are similar in that case. Some servants dont need a third skill
I have a 10/10/10 NP2 Moriarty, I use him regularly and I can confidently say that A is too high for him.
He should have been B+ or lower and its mostly because of how terrible his deck is. Buster NP with 3 Arts might be the worst possible deck, combine that with very low NP gain on arts and a pathetic 3-hit quick makes his deck one of the worst among 5*. Also because every saber has resistance the def debuff on the NP fails way too frequently and is very inconsistent. That does in fact hurt his damage more than it should, since he doesn't have many steroids or buffed np.
Aside from that I'm glad you re-evaluated Saika. Thanks for the video Myst.
Honestly, in theory, the Caster deck would've been one of the best decks in the game, if the Servants themselves doesn't have a naturally low or gimped NP gain or low hit counts.
I know it's for the sake of "balance", but I still don't like it, especially when the trade off isn't worth it.
It is interesting how the Archer class became the de facto husbando class.
Thank you for taking the time to make these tier lists, really love the discussions you have. One suggestion I do have is to make better use of the bottom tiers, since shifting everything down will give more space to accurately depict the differences in the higher tiers (and make more people mad that their favorite servants are too low which is fun to watch). This list just had no one in E and D tier, so shifting most of the list down a half or full tier would have helped organize the A/A+ tiers, which is where most of the final adjustments are concentrated.
I understand but it really comes down to how one treats the tiers. The way I treat them is that if a Servant is good, they get a good tier and vice versa. I'm not gonna start dragging people down to rank them in an order better. Like basically you would be asking for us to put stuff in E for the worst archer because they happen to be the lowest of the rankings but imo that would be unfair for the Servant if I don't think they are actually that bad. So really it's just a preference thing.
1 time Kid Gil ended up being useful for me was when I decided that my first clear of Kiara would be without whip, and the only team I could come up with was double Merlin + Kid Gil. Since Large Kiara does buff-stripping before damage, the only way to survive her NP is by debuffing her to do less damage, and Kid Gil was the only one in my Chaldea who did enough of that reliably. Still have a screenshot of the last turn from that fight, a total of 137)
Excited for the archer tier list :D also just a heads up, the link in the description that's supposed to take you to the AOE NP Looping damage spreadsheet links to the ST damage spreadsheet instead
Oh whoops, fixed now.
Summer Musashi made it in the tier list lmao.
Should have put MHXX too smh
Arash EX is super solid
When I look at the archer skills there are a lot of units that would be helped with a NP gain buff.
Great video!
Ash in a+ is so based
Could make an argument for EX honestly. I have him grailed to level 90 and is my main Archer DPS due to no 5 star in that class (which is insane considering I have 30+ SSR's). He's just so consistent and gets better the longer a fight goes. He's NP2 and he nukes enemies by himself with no outside support. He's too good man.
@@NobuNobuSimp same, mines lv100 tho only np1. His crits+def down are so insane, he can take down even class neutral enemies with 400k HP by himself. Love him fr
Gil and tesla have the problem that if You don't fight vs servant lost so much potential, the better in general is ishtar because isnt depend of niches
5:35:30
i like otto, but this was kind of stupid. its not mock trial or debate club.
i think he was super tired and just getting cranky there was alot of talking over eachother throughout
Dude if I was getting interrupted multiple times per servant and I was a *guest* on this long stream, I'd reconsider coming back. Don't ask me to be a guest and then not let me talk, like what am I here for?
Why even ask for his opinion if you're going to Kanye West him.
Lol as the only adult here il comment. You kill the vibe with such an outburst. As a guest you never act like that. Justified or not. It’s social retardation. He’s so weird. Awkward af on his podcast too. Great representation of the community fam! 😂
I used Kiyohime with Paris!🤭 I thought I invented this combo myself and thought it was so smart too hahah 😆 😅I used to do this combo for farming octuplet crystals in Camelot. That node had 2 waves of enemies and a strong single enemy as a 3rd wave. I used Arash for the 1st wave, Kiyohime for the 2nd and Paris for the mini boss. Castoria also helped. I didn't know about looping, so just taking 3 characters with 3 Kscopes was my idea of a 3 turn farming
Ngl didn’t expect it to take 6h 30 for someone to mention summer musashi (or at least that I noticed)
We talked about her in the intro pre-recording and agreed to address her later instead.
Funnily enough, this makes Arash the highest tier servant I've ever grailed
As a Archer Artoria enjoyer with a NP5 LV120 copy.
I'm still very sad from that skill buff.
Yea that buff would have so much better on Artemis
Archer Artoria buff should have been a NP buff instead.
Even if its just damage buff and they keep the drain at 70%.
I feel like Archer Artoria with 100% drain would be ridicilous.
Guys, I’ve playing for almost 3 years now, and I still don’t have a single 5* Archer, i have all cards supported, with that in mind what Anii 7th GSSR Archer banners should go for 😢?
The Emiya Alter downplay is crazy, easily the best ST farmer of the class and yet somehow 3 tiers below Squirtoria. Plus his nice defensive skill (not tied to any demerit like Squirtoria) and utility on his NP makes him fine even outside his main role.
Greek is very much a living language, Otto. You’re thinking of Latin. :P
4:32:40 make Merlins able to add male attribute to enemy so it is not a dead skill against fenale
Tesla fans keep winning 🔥🔥🔥
Glad to have NP5 Hotwheels on lvl90 XD He shreds well pretty much always.
For Tomoe Gozen maybe increased damage to burning enemies on her first skill as well as the attack increased to 20 or 22 and the np dmg to 30. Second skill just add a crit dmg buff. Third maybe a 30% battery.
Idky they shat so hard on EMIYAs 3rd skill buff. He can black grail loop with no suit because of it….
Im not saying hes an amazing unit by any means cause his dmg from his np is pretty bad, but i dont think his second buff to his third skill “did nothing”. Thats a VERY hot take imo
Plushie: "Zenobia has been known as the budget Arts looping Archer"
Me hearing "Zenobia has been known as the butt-cheeks Arts looping Archer"
I feel like there's just a lot of competition in this class. If Billy was a caster we'd probably cream our pants over him but as archer he's just meh.
Yeah competition destroys him sadly
in defense of UDK barghest, she loops well enough with 2 castoria + xu fu from my experience(np1), but single target ? give up, she wont refund shit, i think she could be a bit higher but i cant disagree on the placement exactly
proud owner of a 10/10/10 skill, 10/10/10 append, level 120 arash
Honestly I think Archer Astoria should be EX. Her damage with double Castoria is fantastic. But her defense is ridiculous. Like c’mon now. 70% to reduce a charge? I get if this was a normal NP that you did every 2-5 turns and you don’t think it’s going to land often. But with double Castoria you’re going to np every single turn. You can essentially lock out a boss from their NP, plus you have healing, and party defense, plus Castoria’s dodges. That’s absolutely insane. What single target arts archer comes close? She’s so easy to cheese bosses and to control fights it’s ridiculous. You say she needs ‘a bit of damage’ but I say nping every turn makes up for that plus outshines every other archers defense by effectively negating the np
Gilgamesh on EX 😍 wait him to get buff on skill 2 and he's become EX+
So happy my summer musashi is ex in archer tier list lol
The archer class really does start with A!
"Please dont talk over me" that sounded so slimy for some reason.
Imagine if Arash becomes a Grand Archer candidate
Best Archer: Musashi summer
Good stuff
I think both Ishtar and Jarcher are EX.
Ishtar has just really nice NP and crit damage, just cause it isn't higher than Gills...doesn't mean it's not there. When she crits on her Buster Card the damage is just "cheffs kiss" nice and you can buster loop with her cause 50% battery.
Jarcher...I have no idea how you can just sit there and say that she doesn't do damage when she can 3T farm with a black grail without any problems...even if you don't have Castoria of your own you can get away with a Tamamo Caster or just another 50% career and she loops without any problems...you literally have a free pick on any CE (Black grail) and Mystic Code that you can put on her to loop...her numbers don't go sky high but the question is if you need them to go Sky High...This is my personal experience, I do have her NP3 and I am working on getting her to lvl 120 but...dem coins. The main thing is that you don't really just put a 50% charge CE on her and think she's gonna do damage like Gil...naa dawg, you put that BBG and let her cook!
Besides her numbers, her kit is just well rounded, she has attack up, she has a 2 hit 3 turn invincibility tied to a 40% battery and NP damage for 3turns effect, and she has that arts up...everything you need really, you can compensate for the low numbers with Gold Fous and just play her more till you get a good feel for her.
Jarcher isn’t ex because Ptolemy and Durga are just better than her and can bg loop. Jarcher suffers from her really low attack and the refund difference between Durga and Jarcher is minimal and ptolomy has an 80% battery which just makes bg looping completely brainless. I would argue Durga is the best of the 3 because of her rainbow buff giving synergy with Yui as well as her damage being one of highest of any archers in the entire game when her sp damage conditions are met (demonic and/or sky enemies). Np1 Durga vs demonic enemies is equivalent to np4 Jarcher with same support (no yui) and ce.
Nightingale at less than ex ?
Shocked
If Archer is "bad" cause most of the Servants got the 2Q/2A deck, wait till the Rider class, the other class with the most number of Servants with this deck type 🤭
Emiya should be B+ man dps AND farm well, not amazing but definately B+.
Out the chat on the right side of the screen
Am I the only one who uses Kscope on Nobukatsu?
You may be the only person who uses Nobokatsu.
I do too. He uses his buffs on Demon Nobu, Waver/Merlin brings his NP to 100, he uses his NP and brings out (support) Himiko while buffing Demon Nobu even further.
Arash with double chloe is the new meta