You're Included - Hope for All Humanity
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2015
- For Interview Transcripts, Study Guides, and Discussion Topics: www.gci.org/YI083
Dr. Parry discusses God's purpose for salvation. He shares with us that Christ's salvation is already achieved for everyone and we can participate in that.
Dr. Robin Parry is Theological Books editor for Wipf and Stock Publishers. He is the author of "Worshipping Trinity: Coming Back to the Heart of Worship," "Old Testament Story and Christian Ethics," and "Lamentations."
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This quiet, humble, shy, almost timid-sounding man comes across with more sheer power than ANY shouting, slobbering, or smug high intellectual-sounding "Hellfire" preacher I've ever heard!
I agree. This is part of why I love listening to Robin. There’s power in humility.
evil is not immortal. It will not live on in some torture chamber. God will be all in all. The cosmos will be perfected.
THIS IS THE TRUE CHRISTIANITY THAT EVENTUALLY EVERYONE HAS TO ARRIVE AT! We need to properly verbelize it and bring it to the nations and mainly to the Christians that are still immersed in the dualistic doctrine of hell and heaven..
Those who disagree need to listen very careful. Lean not on your own understanding. In all you ways take notice of Him and He Himself will make your paths straight. In the end God will be all in all. In the Cross is Grace and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.
Love this message, God will not fail to save everyone
Great! This is the theology that reality LIBERATES us...hence full of HOPE .I personally am convinced? Adam+ Eve+ Pharoah+ Nebuchadnezzar+ King Pilate+ Judas Iscariot + or any other evil/ sinner whom we have preposterous consigned to HELL fire? God is is absolute LOVE who absolutely hate evil- sin. Yet absolutely LOVE the human!! Thank uu for this eye opener ( positive) Theology. This is the Holy Spirit ...working thru you.Fullstop.
*The Victorious Glorious Gospel of Grace.*
Shalom everyone.
Peace mercy and grace be to you.
Thank you for this upload.
Please have patience with me.
We have great joy and bring you the best news ever, for everyone.
This is been given to us freely and will be given freely.
The Lord your God Jesus The Christ is the savior of everyone. No exceptions !
Not having any respect of persons, giving Grace to all, everyone in its own order.
*He is the savior of the world and will reconcile all things to Himself.*
Not death nor pagan places called hell to give a spirit of fear and to control you, will seperate us from His love. God forbid.
Pray to Him, He is faithfull in all things.
*None will be lost.*
Believe in Him, His everlasting mercy and never ending grace towards us and rejoice.
Thank you (and everyone else) for your patience reading this.
Peace to the brethren and sisters, and love, with faith, from God the Father, the Lord Jesus The Christ! Amen.
May Father YAHweh bless your understanding and show you His Resurrected Son YAHwehShua. Praise Father YAHweh.
If I am lifted up, I will draw (drag) ALL men to Myself...(John 12:32) God Is Love, and Love never fails (1 Cor 13:8) God is the savior of ALL mankind, especially (not exclusively) those who believe (now)( 1Tim 4:10) It is Gods desire that ALL mankind be saved, but will God be able to? (Isa 46:10) With God , ALL things are possible (Matt 19:26) So , just logically speaking or thinking, if it was possible that God could save the worst sinner the world has ever known, would He do it? What did P)aul say? 1 Tim 1:15......the worst of sinners was Paul and he was saved!!
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Context, my friend. :)
Jesus speaks about the Kingdom of Heaven (verses 1-14). It may mean that only a few are chosen to enter in this lifetime. Heaven is a place on earth. Isn't it interesting that Jesus deals with the question of resurrection in the same chapter (verses 23 ff.)? And yet they don't seem directly connected since there is the subject of paying the Imperial tax to Caesar inbetween (verses 15-22).
His love is greater than his justice....lets never forget that!
If there is no universal Salvation, then it seems the Muslims are right about us all believing in the same god, for, there are scriptures that help solidify a Calvinist perspective of God's sovereignty.
I think THE foundational problem in understanding salvation is that while God could have revealed Himself in such a way as to make its understanding absolutely clear to all, He has chosen not to do so. Why is that? Why is "the Gospel" hindered by various interpretations, by circular reasoning of its interpreters, by hundreds of methods of achieving salvation within Christendom? I think that is THE root problem...EXACTLY what is the Gospel? If this question cannot be answered, Christianity is a reprehensible system of works/sin avoidance.
Wheat and tares, sheep and goats, depart from me i never knew you, lake of fire, unforgivable sins - despite the finished work of Christ and his death and resurrection for all there are those who refuse this salvation and that absurdity is a reality.
These verses are addressed in the books. You need to address the verses that sound universalist.
Are the demons and Satan ( Lucifer) also then going to be reconciled to God according to what Robin is saying here ?
I'm not sure what Robin believes about this. I don't think that scripture is as clear on that as it is about all humans being restored. However, if God chooses to do that He will. We should not fear or be upset about that. Because, if He does they will be made perfect in Christ as well, in His time and way.
Thanks for your reply Cathy. I haven't read any of Robin's books yet, perhaps he answers my question in one of them.
How is that making a character judgement of God? What is love, if not seeking what is best for the object of that love? How can throwing someone into eternal endless torment, by anybody's standard of "love", be seeking what is best? I don't know what to do with the scriptures you quote, but I do know this. Classic Christian theology and eternal hell belief has convoluted the word "love" to the point where it has pratically no meaning any more... at least for me.
The Bible says that God will have mercy on ALL His works. A number of the early church fathers, including Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, and Jerome, believed that, at the end of the ages, God would restore even the "inventor of evil" himself. The Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, are quite clear, that EVERY knee will bow at the Name of Jesus, and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, and vow allegiance to the Lord.
Would you be mad at God if God chose to restore ALL of His creation?
Exactly! Furthermore, if people were in hell, would they bow their knee and confess Jesus, the one who just threw them in hell to burn forever? Unless it was forced? But God would never accept forced worship.
The reason for a person believing that God can’t save Hitler but can save some people is the belief that somehow some people are not as evil as Hitler. It’s a prideful view. I need Gods grace and I have no hope that I’m inherently better than anyone else.
A heaven in which all the people we care about who rejected or didnt know jesus or people who never had a chance to hear the gospel are burning forever in a fire and in eternal torment is not a heaven. It is a sad heaven not a joyful heaven, and therefore incoherent and illogical. The only way heaven is logical and coherent is in a universal salvation context.
It's your thinking. But plain teaching of the Bible is the opposite.
@@KM-leons There's literally no Biblical support for ECT unless you completely mangle the definition of death.
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21: 5-8
People wake up please there is no resurrection from the second death and no restoration because God Himself said "BEHOLD, I AM MAKING ALL THINGS NEW" please repent turn away from sin and this heretical teachings for the sake of your soul! Christ Jesus offers salvation while we here on earth and then judgment!
18:57 - 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12: 31-32
19:27 - 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.1 Corinthians 6: 9-10
This man just lie and lie and lie on God and on His Word!
good points sir ... what about those who NEVER heard the gospel? Will they be thrown in the lake of fire for not having the opportunity to hear it? Would that be good & fair judgement ?
@@thestream1 Your question may be difficult to answer but that is not a refutation of the verses in the first comment.
There may be no hell, but for sure fire and brimstone awaits the ungodly people! The old testament confirms the event! And so says the words of Jesus, from the new testament! Do not speak otherwise with your own nonsense opinion! Do not call Jesus a liar!!
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Psa 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psa 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
Psa 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom IT RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, AND DESTROYED THEM ALL.
Luk 17:30 EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE IN THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE!!!!
No universalist denies the existence of post mortem punishment. Its the everlasting part we deny
I find his point of view problematic, as it requires the belief that A) the Bible is full of untrue stories (God didn't really kill Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit, God didn't do the multitude of similar acts in the OT, the scriptures that say that those who do not believe will not inherent eternal life, etc.), and B), for us to judge God's character on our standard and understanding of what love is. I can make sinful, unjust decisions based on legitimate love, but can God?
I believe the reason we face this endless discussion is rooted in our inability to see the realm of God, how He operates, and what goes on within His point of view. There is so much we do not understand about it, so I would error on the side of Biblical truth over making character judgements of God based on my human understanding of love, then throw out the problematic scriptures.
I believe there is too many scriptures on warning people of judgment and condemnation to ignore because I cannot figure out how God's love works. Just my 2 cents.
Hi Jay.
Disclaimer first: When I ask questions in text, I haven't yet figured out how to inject the earnesty you would otherwise hear in my voice. So, often my questions sound interrogative and confrontational. There's no intention of that though. Please give me the benefit of the doubt as you proceed. Thanks :)
Can you clarify why doubt in eternal concious torment requires disbelief in the story of Ananias and Sapphira and God's temporal judgment in the OT? Even as a non-universalist (so far), I would question the notion that Ananias and Sapphira were not only killed but cast into eternal torment. Also, how would you respond to the following statement? "Those who do not believe will not inheret eternal life... until they come to believe." I've got my own thoughts on it, but I'd like to know yours.
Regarding your point B: I've been looking into this debate for a couple months now and I've listened to Robin give additional lectures. I don't think he would agree that he's discarding scriptures. The questions arise because of how we (modern English-speakers) have translated ancient non-English text. I believe he would argue that his point of view is based on a more restoration-centric interpretation of the ancient text, especially surrounding words that we've come to translate as "hell" and "forever."
Full disclosure: I've been a solo scriptura guy for a long time myself. I'll spare you the story of the circumstances that led me from thinking Universalism was heresy to today, where I'm at least allowing myself to ask God the questions and research the answers earnestly (whereas before when I'd ignore the argument altogether). So I'm not a Universalist per se. So if you don't want to waste time conversing with me, I'd understand. But I have been questioning all of the assumptions I once had that caused me to ignore other points of view. At the very least, I'm no longer comfortable stating with assurance that the idea is heresy.
There are a big amount of Church Fathers like St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Isaac the Syrian, St. Maximus the Confessor who claimed that torment in hell is not eternal. They also warned that hell will be excruciating. Church Fathers were the holiest Christians to ever live.
I don't think 1 Corinthians 13 (for example) is problematic in describing love. It is really clear about what Love is and (thus) what God is... clearly stated, I don't see a place for inserting eternal conscious torment. It is no character judgement toward God to biblically hold Gods own explanation of His character up to be viewed. There IS judgement... their IS condemnation but a doctrine declaring that God is sovereign AND unwilling to bring about the repentance of His clay beings... that is not as direct and God honoring as,
"For to this end [c]we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
OR "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation."
OR " Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We can defend almost any doctrine with a long enough discussion and a few clever tricks... the real question at the moment actually excludes God from being part of the issue. What type of God are we willing to worship? IF God is the sort of being who lets his children (by design) exercise self-harm and does nothing about it OTHER THAN brutally torture them forever for their design (his design, I must add) then what do we want to be? THAT is the point being made about the experiments involving electric shock... do we WANT to be okay with eternal conscious torture when God presents 100s of verses that tell us that HE is working to save everyone?
God is at Peace with You Very well stated. I can further add if adherents of ECT claim that God’s ways are above our understanding and we need to trust what scripture says ....then do we not render words like “Love” and “Father” completely meaningless? I could argue what is scripture really saying if the words have no relationship to our understanding?
Matthew 5:38-48 is the best primer in creation as to where the Father’s perfection lies in regard to vengeance and justice. Matthew 5:48, and the preceding ten verses establish that God the Father's perfection lies in this: He always overcomes evil one way and one way only--- with goodness. He always blesses His enemies to overcome their evil. He endlessly turns the other cheek, tirelessly walks the extra mile, generously gives the extra cloak, etc. And Jesus tells us at the end of that passage to always do the same, so that we can “be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect."
We should remember that the functions of true divine justice and true divine wrath must always be in submission and service to the two constituent divine qualities of love and light. So what would the wrath of a God who was wholly light and love look like? Well, if we are too believe Paul’s 1 Corinthian 13 opus on love’s qualitative acts, then we would have to see the Lord’s justice as ultimately curative, His wrath as ultimately rehabilitative, and His vengeance as ultimately restorative. Paul there tells us the nature of agape-love “hopes all thing, believes all things, endures all things, and NEVER fails.” So, Jesus is the “Great Physician,” not the “Great Revenger.”
Robin Parry, It's not what you think it makes absolutely no sense at all, I just can't see why the disciples would labour and suffer reproach even face the prospect of death if all will be saved in the end.
I believe Jesus is the Saviour of all men, but only if men accept the offer of salvation, specially of those that believe in Jesus.
Many sinners believe in Jesus, but they have not made a commitment.
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Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe,
Conclusion verse 16
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1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Act 13:46-48 It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Jesus warned sinners of judgement day, he mentioned fire and brimstone. No Greek language can overturn what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the Flood. Sodom and Gomorrah was a real event, people died by fire and brimstone that rained down from heaven, you just cannot deny that. History will repeat itself says the words of Jesus.
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Luk 17:26-33 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
The Greek words are translated in this video. My brother I just hope this video turns your way of thinking to the right ways of the Lord, he will not allow sinners to get away with evil deeds and deadly crimes. No unconvered sinner will ever enter the kingdom of God.
My brother I just hope this video turns your way of thinking to the right ways of the Lord, he will not allow sinners to get away with evil deeds and deadly crimes.
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