It's quite clear and definitive that the U.S began scaling back the space shuttle program in preparation to move IP into the private sector before anyone attempted to colonize the moon, and I believe that it's been avoided. Make no mistake that this is quite possibly the most important endeavor that has been occurring right before our eyes that is more important than any other issue including oil. It was masterfully executed.
They talked about potential conflicts, with guns (or lasers) but what about cyber warfare? The premise of the book is that tech will develop exponentially as it has been which will lead to all the possibilities of easy mining etc; how much bigger will be the kind of tech warfare using hacking etc (or the 20 years-from-now equivalent)?
11:36 Interesting point about ownership as a concept Alex. The problem with your claim to owning the commet, is that my god, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, told me it's actually MINE! But seriously, it gives pause to the question of whether we can truly claim to OWN ANYTHING other than ourselves and our own lives.
I think the entire concept of land ownership has always stemmed from violence inherently. The earth itself has been here for literally billions of years, the land beneath our feet for hundreds of millions. Far far older than humanity. To think we can claim it as ours is hubris of the highest order, and has only ever served to empower the land "owners" with the ability to exploit those without land to "own".
@vinegar10able Sounds familiar. The one I like is, 'we don't own the planet, we're just borrowing it from our children.' I like it because if you don't have any children you don't have to give anything back. 😁
Grayling has wonderful breadth of mind. A genuine philosopher. And Alex is such an intelligent interlocutor. This is a treat for the curious. However, not sure if China is biggest threat as he seems to imply and also the Ukraine/Russia/NATO example may lack some nuance
37:04 the idea that somebody goes and blows up a base on the noon or an asteroid just because that somebody doesn’t want others to go there is very disturbing.
This was great! Also, you gotta get Michael Knowles back on the pod at some point to discuss Catholicism (considering that’s what he really wanted to talk about on your last podcast)
On an astrophysics level I do wonder if we will see a similar crisis on the same planetary level as climate change with the transfer of raw mass from the moon and asteroid mining back to earth. By slowing increasing Earth's mass over centuries, will we shift its orbit around the sun? Will we lessen the Moon's mass to the point where it will leave our orbit faster than what is currently estimated? 🤔
We can’t even get anyone out of low earth orbit right now, but we’re gonna have “moon bases” in the next few years? Sorry, but that’s kinda silly. I think it’s a question to be discussed, but let’s not get sensational about it.
39:36 the idea that NATO is the reason the conflict is not spreading is based on? Doesn’t seem to me that there is any intention for the conflict to spread any further.
I love Alex, but the questioning on this interview is some of the worst, if not the worst, I've seen from him. I'm wondering if anyone thinks this way, too?
I did see some other comments about it, but I dont understand why these aren't good questions. Its an under discussed topic, I can understand why he'd ask some semantic questions
If you ignore anyone that thinks Bexit was a bad idea, you end up with a pretty small group of headbangers to listen to. How do you think we ended up with the current Conservative Cabinet?
@@tcritt you clearly missed the temperament thing. There's thinking it's a bad idea (I voted remain) and being obsessed and shrill about it. Grayling is the latter.
I'm not interested in giving government (the people's) research and development and all of its knowledge to private interests. People have to stop fighting and unite against greedy billionaires or they will have everything and they won't play fair
Once we start thinking deeply about the nature of ownership, the current circumstances and outcomes of the world start to make sense. Might is right. That's why the US spend so much money on their military. You want to secure your land and claim ownership to more land. Need a strong military. I wish it wasn't this way but unfortunately it seems to be
Who owns the sea bed would be a lot more immediate and a better topic. The moon is not going to be mined for at least 50 years if ever. This is almost a laughable conversation.
Jesus is powerless on his own: All of the power that Jesus has comes from the one true God, the Father (2 Corinthians 5:18). Jesus is powerless without God. God GAVE all power and authority to his Son (Matthew 11:27; Matthew 28:18). It is God the Father who possessed Jesus in the beginning, before his works of old (Proverbs 8:22); It is God the Father that is the reason that Jesus lives, for it is God who raised Jesus from the dead (John 6:57, Romans 8:11); It is God the Father who teaches all things to Jesus (John 8:28); It is God the Father who commands Jesus to say and speak his commandments for everlasting life to us (John 8:28; John 12:48-50); As Jesus has told us, we are to serve and pray to God only (Matthew 6:9; Luke 4:8). Those who do not know the Father cannot know the Son, for it is the Son who spoke of the Father and came to finish his work (John 8:19; John 4:34).
😮There is this old joke from soviet era. -Rusians and Americans are racing to mark a new territory as man is about to claim this beloved celestial rock. Suddenly missions control gets a radio from mission Apollo: Mission control, mission controll! It's them they have landed, we can see them... Mission control: Roger Apollo, what is the status of Sovjets? Apollo: Omg mission control they are painting Moon in red .... :- stand by Apollo, Keep the low profile and let them finish... - mission control, they have done it. Moon is red , bloody red...... What shall we do . - mission control Now take the White paint an wrote Coca Cola 😂😂
The practical answer to "Who owns the moon" is also a rather pessimistic one: Whoever is the first to set up colonies on the moon, and is able to defend them from other actors trying to stake their claim, owns the moon.
Perhaps the Antarctic Treaty could be used as a guide. The Moon and The Antarctic have significant characteristics in common. It's hard to get to, it's inhospitable, it doesn't have any useful resources, yet. I actually think it will be possible to establish a self sustaining human society on the Moon. Interestingly the near side of the Moon is permanently visible to the Earth. The far side will need lunar satellites to be observed. The polar regions will be settled initially as temperatures there can be moderated more easily.
Who Owns the Moon? Can you Read my Mind?!. Who Break the Law of God?!. Leviticus 5:17. Isaias 28:9?!. Hebreo 5:13. Hebreo 4:12. Psalms 144:9. When you tell me that you love me?!. Hebreo 10:31. Malachi 1:11.
Have you seen the documentary "Dinosaur 13"? It tells the story of paleontologists who meticulously unearthed a complete T-Rex skeleton, only to have the FBI seize it days later. The government claimed ownership with little regard for the scientists' painstaking work. This story raises concerns about potential struggles over future discoveries, like those on the Moon. Words about collaboration might be important, but actions will speak louder. How can we ensure that the immense effort put into space exploration is protected?
As put, that is easily answered : The Victors (plural). Who are the likely to be the victors in taking possession of our local moon - apart from humanity, of course - that depends on variable (and largely temporary) factors (will, profit, technology, access, interest, and force). I'd plump for .. AI directed robotic mechanisms (and thus not so much one single communal, tribal, national, international, global or commercial effort*). Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o) * Who for instance 'owned' the whole world .. and eventually lost it (or lost control of that ownership): China, Persia, Macedonia, Rome, the Arabs, the Portuguese, the Spanish, the British, US American Capitalism, Soviet or Maoist Communism, Capitalistic Communism/ Communistic Capitalism, Hollywood, Google ....?
interesting discussion. Much of this has been covered in SciFi in any number of decades. as well, there was no discussion around whether at some point those on the moon have the strategic "high ground" in terms of simply being able to throw rocks at the earth to enforce some of their demands. As well, why would different countries' moon bases not attack one another if there is a war on earth. I always do feel that there is a level of naivety in these geopolitical discussions. It is assumed that everyone is a rational actor but leaders are not. I recall many pundits saying that the war in the Ukraine woudl be over in months because the Oligarchs of Russia woudl force Putin to stop the war or that russia woudl lose money and international reputation, so Putin woudl change direction and stop the war. but that assumed rationality.
Well, I've often wondered why being born in SE England gives me the right to live here and own land here, except in the sense that I have, in some small way, through working here, contributed to making the UK what it is
States are just hanging back, as usual, waiting for the corporations to start heading out and discovering resources, before they start seriously talking about responses and regulations etc
I like your podcast Alex but this has been done before. The first Despicable Me film addressed this question thoroughly
🤣🤣🤣
True, im sick of philosophers plagiarising the noble arts.
Vector as Elon Musk?
that's my great uncle!
@@price69420 I thought it was my gran at first. What's he done to his hair?
What a treat and a pleasure to see my former professor from Birkbeck College after so many years. Hello Anthony!
That must have been a great experience
@@sulljoh1 Indeed!
The moonarchy.
Finally we’re asking the real important questions
Who owns Palestine?
@@7pinky791 Who owns America, or the Atlantic ocean, or London?
Who owns my banana?
@@ZER0-- it sure seems like there's a particular group that owns all of them
Comments like this get likes from people who take it literally and take it as satire
I'm pretty sure Mr. Beast gave it to an orphanage already
Grayling is always a joy to listen to. Very thoughtful conversation, well done Alex.
Moon scramble sounds delicious
My favourite contemporary philosopher!!!
Fascinating future-minded discussion thanks.
I dont know why but "I really want to stay in your house" was playing in my head while listening to this.
Me. I do. I own the moon.
Which one?
One guy literally tried this. He's selling plots to fools
Can I borrow it on Wednesday? I've got a date!
Can you move it to cover Uranus?
It's quite clear and definitive that the U.S began scaling back the space shuttle program in preparation to move IP into the private sector before anyone attempted to colonize the moon, and I believe that it's been avoided. Make no mistake that this is quite possibly the most important endeavor that has been occurring right before our eyes that is more important than any other issue including oil. It was masterfully executed.
Grayling has done some great stuff on Wittgenstein. Speaking of, Peter Hacker would be great for this podcast.
DarkMatter 2525 sent me to your channel. Very high recommendation.
I adore A.C Grayling's work. Thank you for this.🌛
Do you need some people to chip in for a mic stand Alex 😂
Interesting conversation 👍
Fire vid.
4 wide
Alex, have you watched the TV show called 'The Expanse'? Definitely hit on this issue at large.
If I go to Mars and bring back Pathfinder, can I keep it?
Thanks Alex for covering a variety of topics.
They talked about potential conflicts, with guns (or lasers) but what about cyber warfare? The premise of the book is that tech will develop exponentially as it has been which will lead to all the possibilities of easy mining etc; how much bigger will be the kind of tech warfare using hacking etc (or the 20 years-from-now equivalent)?
This vid seems to lack some of the gravity typical of Alex's other works.
Darkmatter2525 gave the tip to your channel. Happy I found it
This appears to be a discussion that could have referenced Heinlein's The moon is a harsh mistress and Netflix Spaceforce.
11:36 Interesting point about ownership as a concept Alex. The problem with your claim to owning the commet, is that my god, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, told me it's actually MINE!
But seriously, it gives pause to the question of whether we can truly claim to OWN ANYTHING other than ourselves and our own lives.
I think the entire concept of land ownership has always stemmed from violence inherently. The earth itself has been here for literally billions of years, the land beneath our feet for hundreds of millions. Far far older than humanity. To think we can claim it as ours is hubris of the highest order, and has only ever served to empower the land "owners" with the ability to exploit those without land to "own".
Property is theft. Was it Proudhon that said that?
@vinegar10able Sounds familiar. The one I like is, 'we don't own the planet, we're just borrowing it from our children.' I like it because if you don't have any children you don't have to give anything back. 😁
Damnit Finland! Can't take you guys anywhere can we?!
Grayling has wonderful breadth of mind. A genuine philosopher. And Alex is such an intelligent interlocutor. This is a treat for the curious. However, not sure if China is biggest threat as he seems to imply and also the Ukraine/Russia/NATO example may lack some nuance
37:04 the idea that somebody goes and blows up a base on the noon or an asteroid just because that somebody doesn’t want others to go there is very disturbing.
“Who owns the moon?” A.C Grayling owned it the whole time.
Finished it very interesting
Same 56:45 best moments
This was great!
Also, you gotta get Michael Knowles back on the pod at some point to discuss Catholicism (considering that’s what he really wanted to talk about on your last podcast)
He’s an ideologue who claims to have seen an angel on the NYC subway. Not sure how to take him seriously.
@@jadonharper1493 Well fair enough - he’s relatively charming and an engaging speaker, and I enjoyed their last conversation.
"You will own the moon and be happy"
You've got to get vsauce on this podcast now
Sunny Day Real Estate
100 million fences around us. Can we own everything including the moon, the sun and the stars.
Astronomy is the study of everything with the exception of one tiny blue dot
First one to plant their flag. That's THE RULE 😉 Easy for me to say because I'm a U.S. citizen 😆
Nah darling. It'll be the one who sets up bases there and one who's the strongest on Earth. Probably will be America still but not for long!
A.C Grayling can't be an expert on the politics of space ownership if he hasn't watched The Expanse.
On an astrophysics level I do wonder if we will see a similar crisis on the same planetary level as climate change with the transfer of raw mass from the moon and asteroid mining back to earth. By slowing increasing Earth's mass over centuries, will we shift its orbit around the sun? Will we lessen the Moon's mass to the point where it will leave our orbit faster than what is currently estimated? 🤔
Yeah we destined to screw up other Ecologies..
I hope we don't.
Living on a comment now that would be cool.
We can’t even get anyone out of low earth orbit right now, but we’re gonna have “moon bases” in the next few years? Sorry, but that’s kinda silly.
I think it’s a question to be discussed, but let’s not get sensational about it.
Someone owns the moon, and it isn’t anyone down here.
39:36 the idea that NATO is the reason the conflict is not spreading is based on? Doesn’t seem to me that there is any intention for the conflict to spread any further.
E. U. Quisling himself
Turd-for-brains Brexiter
me i will
I love Alex, but the questioning on this interview is some of the worst, if not the worst, I've seen from him. I'm wondering if anyone thinks this way, too?
I did see some other comments about it, but I dont understand why these aren't good questions. Its an under discussed topic, I can understand why he'd ask some semantic questions
I wonder what Chrisjen Avasarala would have to say about all of this 🙂
Who will own the moon? Whoever has physical de facto control over it. There, saved you an hour
Answer : Whoever is the Strongest here on Earth (both Economically & Millitarily) and is the first to set up Bases on the Moon!
12:00 america solved this problem.
If you develop a piece of land you own it. If someone tries to take it from you, you hurt them.
Really? you got A.C. Grayling on the podcast and you talk about THE MOON?
Really? You're AC Grayling and you wrote a book about the MOON?
@@bobbabai I mean A.C. Grayling has written so much he can write whatever he want, still why would you want to talk with him only about this topic.
@@tzakman8697 I can only guess it's because he wants to promote his book.
Maybe we should end profit motive and private property
No mention of the series 'For all man kind' ..Boo
The hubris of man.
Look, I’m just trying to cover rent here.
Just like a game of monopoly. Who can own the most and how much rent can they charge.
Stopped taking this guy seriously given his complete and ongoing lack of temperament re Brexit.
If you ignore anyone that thinks Bexit was a bad idea, you end up with a pretty small group of headbangers to listen to. How do you think we ended up with the current Conservative Cabinet?
@@tcritt you clearly missed the temperament thing. There's thinking it's a bad idea (I voted remain) and being obsessed and shrill about it. Grayling is the latter.
Alex mistakenly assumes that anyone would willingly want to ever go to lithuania
I can not make the conection in WhatsApp..🤔😒
The Principality of Zeon will own the Moon!
Me.
You can have the moon, but I get to keep Mars, Jupiter, Saturn...
Please leave Uranus to me.😅
@@GlossRabbanNot touching that!
Bring Apostate prophet on the showww alex
third
What about Dawkins saying he prefers Christian Society? Waiting on that.
👍🙂
I'm not interested in giving government (the people's) research and development and all of its knowledge to private interests. People have to stop fighting and unite against greedy billionaires or they will have everything and they won't play fair
I own the Moon, seeing how I own _all_ of the green cheese!
The moon is already declared and people are buying acerage
what the hell are you wearing Alex?
Once we start thinking deeply about the nature of ownership, the current circumstances and outcomes of the world start to make sense.
Might is right.
That's why the US spend so much money on their military. You want to secure your land and claim ownership to more land. Need a strong military.
I wish it wasn't this way but unfortunately it seems to be
Who owns the sea bed would be a lot more immediate and a better topic. The moon is not going to be mined for at least 50 years if ever. This is almost a laughable conversation.
The Moonlings 😂. It's why we haven't returned.
Ffs we cant breathe 😂😂anywhere else
Within Reason killed Cosmic Skeptic.
Its easy to answer: Jeff ......its only left, while Elon claims the mars.
It's not a moon!
Don’t Earth my Moon 😂
What purpose would a military base serve? Ridiculous
Read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."
Ha! Glad you're not in charge of military strategy! 😂
The meek will inherit the Earth & tbe freaks will own the moon. 👄
Jesus is powerless on his own:
All of the power that Jesus has comes from the one true God, the Father (2 Corinthians 5:18). Jesus is powerless without God. God GAVE all power and authority to his Son (Matthew 11:27; Matthew 28:18).
It is God the Father who possessed Jesus in the beginning, before his works of old (Proverbs 8:22);
It is God the Father that is the reason that Jesus lives, for it is God who raised Jesus from the dead (John 6:57, Romans 8:11);
It is God the Father who teaches all things to Jesus (John 8:28);
It is God the Father who commands Jesus to say and speak his commandments for everlasting life to us (John 8:28; John 12:48-50);
As Jesus has told us, we are to serve and pray to God only (Matthew 6:9; Luke 4:8). Those who do not know the Father cannot know the Son, for it is the Son who spoke of the Father and came to finish his work (John 8:19; John 4:34).
Good luck with that. I hope you picked the right one.
Let me save you all time. I own the moon. So go on, no need to watch or even think about it anymore. I own it. Me. Not you, me. You can leave now.
😮There is this old joke from soviet era.
-Rusians and Americans are racing to mark a new territory as man is about to claim this beloved celestial rock.
Suddenly missions control gets a radio from mission Apollo:
Mission control, mission controll! It's them they have landed, we can see them...
Mission control:
Roger Apollo, what is the status of Sovjets?
Apollo:
Omg mission control they are painting Moon in red ....
:- stand by Apollo, Keep the low profile and let them finish...
- mission control, they have done it. Moon is red , bloody red...... What shall we do
.
- mission control
Now take the White paint an wrote Coca Cola 😂😂
He who builds the first Walmart on the moon, shall inherit the moon.
Eddie Izzard, “do you have a flag?” springs to mind…
I've been listening to your podcast as I work installing flooring in Canada and I just want to say keep up the great work you're awesome
Came from Darkmatter2525
Darkmatter2525 is one of the all-time greats. Dude is a genius and underappreciated.
His speeches (2007) along with Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are legendary.
I.
I will own it. And no one can stop me, muhahaha
Gru
The practical answer to "Who owns the moon" is also a rather pessimistic one:
Whoever is the first to set up colonies on the moon, and is able to defend them from other actors trying to stake their claim, owns the moon.
This is the only true answer.
When did Benjamin Franklin make a time machine?
Alex, please interview Francesca Stavrakopoulou.
Some white man
Perhaps the Antarctic Treaty could be used as a guide. The Moon and The Antarctic have significant characteristics in common. It's hard to get to, it's inhospitable, it doesn't have any useful resources, yet. I actually think it will be possible to establish a self sustaining human society on the Moon. Interestingly the near side of the Moon is permanently visible to the Earth. The far side will need lunar satellites to be observed. The polar regions will be settled initially as temperatures there can be moderated more easily.
Who Owns the Moon? Can you Read my Mind?!. Who Break the Law of God?!. Leviticus 5:17. Isaias 28:9?!. Hebreo 5:13. Hebreo 4:12. Psalms 144:9. When you tell me that you love me?!. Hebreo 10:31. Malachi 1:11.
Have you seen the documentary "Dinosaur 13"? It tells the story of paleontologists who meticulously unearthed a complete T-Rex skeleton, only to have the FBI seize it days later. The government claimed ownership with little regard for the scientists' painstaking work. This story raises concerns about potential struggles over future discoveries, like those on the Moon. Words about collaboration might be important, but actions will speak louder. How can we ensure that the immense effort put into space exploration is protected?
As put, that is easily answered : The Victors (plural). Who are the likely to be the victors in taking possession of our local moon - apart from humanity, of course - that depends on variable (and largely temporary) factors (will, profit, technology, access, interest, and force). I'd plump for .. AI directed robotic mechanisms (and thus not so much one single communal, tribal, national, international, global or commercial effort*).
Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek.
God bless. ;o)
* Who for instance 'owned' the whole world .. and eventually lost it (or lost control of that ownership): China, Persia, Macedonia, Rome, the Arabs, the Portuguese, the Spanish, the British, US American Capitalism, Soviet or Maoist Communism, Capitalistic Communism/ Communistic Capitalism, Hollywood, Google ....?
awful questions. Owning the moon. Awful. Don't ask such awful questions
interesting discussion. Much of this has been covered in SciFi in any number of decades. as well, there was no discussion around whether at some point those on the moon have the strategic "high ground" in terms of simply being able to throw rocks at the earth to enforce some of their demands. As well, why would different countries' moon bases not attack one another if there is a war on earth.
I always do feel that there is a level of naivety in these geopolitical discussions. It is assumed that everyone is a rational actor but leaders are not. I recall many pundits saying that the war in the Ukraine woudl be over in months because the Oligarchs of Russia woudl force Putin to stop the war or that russia woudl lose money and international reputation, so Putin woudl change direction and stop the war. but that assumed rationality.
Well, I've often wondered why being born in SE England gives me the right to live here and own land here, except in the sense that I have, in some small way, through working here, contributed to making the UK what it is
States are just hanging back, as usual, waiting for the corporations to start heading out and discovering resources, before they start seriously talking about responses and regulations etc
Kind of got me thinking of micro-nation, a movie named: "Rose Island" (2020)