What I've gathered is whether Homura's a good or bad person doesn't matter compared to the fact that she IS a person, and the choices she made, good or bad, were made out of her humanity
im not sure I agree here. As homura says herself, she is /not a person/. Not anymore. Her love for Madoka, while so /human/, is what pulled her away from personhood. Now she has a purpose and she fulfils it, painfully effectively, no matter how pointless it is. I think this is a big part of homura’s character! She doesn’t care for her personhood, her wellbeing she only cares for madoka’s. She isn’t the girl from the start anymore, she’s lost any of the human characteristics there, perhaps she is evil. But she’s evil /for madoka/ and that’s the only part that matters to her. It’s hard to even call her selfish with how absurdly self sacrificial she is
The way you described how Homura keeps Madoka from growing was never something I thought about after watching the show. I thought that it was more something like a refusal to let madoka disappear or become a Witch, but those are in fact the same thing. Madoka is like a domesticated bird that wants to fly, but Homura keeps the bird caged because she knows that if the bird flies, it would probably not survive in the wild.
I think its less the fear of it not surviving in the wild, but moreso the fear that the bird will no longer *need* her to survive. its the fear that the bird will fly and soar and homura will no longer be able to keep it in her sight.
@@calacalamari3977this was pretty much disproven in rebellion. At the end of the show madoka made her wish and homura let her bc madoka told her that that’s what she truly wants. Then after homura started finding out the truth in rebellion and was talking to madoka she told her about a nightmare she had which was basically the end of the anime, then madoka started comforting homura and told her that she could never be happy never being with her friends and family again. That’s when homura started spiralling and regretting letting madoka make that wish. She never wanted to trap madoka, not even at the end of rebellion. She wanted her to be happy but knew that madoka would never prioritise her own happiness over someone else’s. Pls watch the anime and the movie again I can’t stand homura slander 😭.
@@Kayta-Lindathere has been countless straight romances where that has happened before and no one has ever had an issue with it but god forbid a lesbian wants to save and protect the person they love.
@ i'm not slandering homura! trust me, her and madoka are my absolute FAVORITE characters to come out of this series, and probably in my top 5 characters over all in general. homura is a very interesting character for me to analyze. it's not slander to point out her actions *are* selfish and possessive. homura has grown completely disconnected from madoka and the rest of humanity because of her time loops. its very interesting to think about and *see* the effects that had on her character which is why she singles madoka out almost like an object to attain instead of a person to connect to. in her mission to save madoka, she grew farther and farther away from what she originally had with her, which was a genuine and real connection (that wasn't built on fear, lies, or anything of the sort). its important to the note that everyone in homura's labrynth during rebellion are in some way under homura's subconscious control. madoka acts the way *homura* expects her to act, just like everyone else. its why sayaka and kyoko are close friends and kyoko lives at sayaka's house in this world while mami still lives alone (despite mami and kyoko having known eachother longer). madoka says "i could never do this" even though she DID, and she *has* made that sacrifice. madoka during the flower field scene has none of her prior memories and is effected by the labyrinth, she's saying things homura subconsciously wants to hear. the entire labyrinth is a reflection of homura's subconscious. you can say what you will about homura's intentions, but it doesnt change the fact homura took away madoka's agency and forced her to live the way *homura* wanted her to. like that part still very much happened
3:43 also this part when you consider Mami as "mother" it got me flashbacks of Bebe because Bebe means "baby" in French I think. Mami and Bebe... Mommy and baby...
It needs the "e" to be changed into "é" (bébé) but yeah that's basically it. It's also not the only language where mami and bebe echo the words for mother and child (maman, mama, mommy...)
I dont think Homura is selfish in that she wants Madoka to keep depending on her, i think she just genuinely believes Madoka, her version Madoka, needs saving. In rebellion the law of cycles has forgotten about her godhood so when they talk in the feild of lillies, it really is Madoka talking to Homura, who is already aware that this is her labyrinth. Madoka tells Homura that there is no way she'd ever go alone to somewhere no one else can see her again because she's so wimpy, Homura took that as Madoka admitting that becoming Madokami was scary and made her very sad. Madokami the God is able to recognise that her existence/ non existence is for the better of all magical girls, but Madoka the human girl still just wants to be with her friends and family and is hurting deeply, the two beings still exist together clearly as otherwise Homura wouldn't of been able to rip them apart. Madoka's wish is objectively very selfless yes, but also very selfish, Madoka has consistently shown her own low self-esteem at the beginning of the series, she talks frequently about being nothing special and doubting if she is even worthy to be a magical girl, saving other people and making a difference on others is the only way she believes she can have value. She loves her friends and family, and wants them to be happy ofc, but she also believes they can be happy without her, undervaluing how much she means to them and hence disrespecting them, homura isn't the only one who remembered her, her little brother did too in someway which just showed the impact she had despite erasing herself. Her wish was very selfish to her loved ones, but benevolent to everyone else. I think Homura is the polar opposite, completely selfish to everyone else by ripping Madokami apart despite how much she's helped the world, but very selfless to the only one she loves and cares for. Personally i think Homura is the only one who sees Madoka, I think if Madoka had said anything to indicate that she was truly content with her descision in their conversation, then Homura would've let go and let Madokami take her away. Despite being this mature and mysterious character at the start and madoka being very childish and innocent, i think as things are now they've switched roles; Madoka is the mature one who sees that this is the way things have to be for the greater good who wants to grow and embraces suffering, Homura is the childish one who will stop at nothing to get what she wants who wanst things to stay the same and will go through suffering just to avoid it.
Love this analysis. I'll throw mine on top. tl;dr Madoka splitting in two is actually a necessary consequence of her graceful, general selflessness trying to coexist with Homura's own directed selflessness. You have to ask how Homura could give in to despair and become a witch. Her wish must become a curse: she must realise that even as her wish was granted and Madoka was able to ascend under Homura's protection, Homura lost what she really wanted. Paradoxically, if Homura could accept Madoka's version of the ending, she could never reunite with Madoka because. Her faith that Madoka was waiting for her would keep her wish from becoming despair, and prevent her from achieving it. If Madoka cannot save Homura directly, perhaps she could find an alternate route. If Madoka could indulge Homura's selfishness, Homura would never give in to despair, and Madoka's wish to save Homura would truly be fulfilled. But if Homura is a paradox, Madoka is a tautology. Madoka wishes that she herself could never despair. Cureice said none of the girls got their real wishes, but that's not true in Madoka's case. Because for her to save herself from becoming a curse, she must have made the perfect wish: a wish that she can never regret or doubt. And, importantly, this isn't a result of Madoka being a perfect wish-maker. Homura is the counterexample to that. So how is Madoka's wish perfect? It made itself perfect, as part of her ascension. Madoka became a being incapable of refusing salvation to any who need it, incapable of regret, incapable of doubt. She wished away her own agency in order to protect herself from its consequences. And thus, the true paradox: Madoka's tautology and Homura's paradox cannot simultaneously exist. Madoka's wish-the law of metaphysics she created-demands she complete the impossible task of saving Homura, while simultaneously making it impossible. The two wishes each insist that Homura and Madoka be allowed to sacrifice themselves to save the other. And so the goddess must be split in two, and the world rewritten, to resolve this contradiction at the heart of Madoka's new reality. Homura said it herself. It was always going to end this way.
Madoka was one of the first anime that introduced me to he world of magical girls. As a result, unlike every other magical girl veteran viewer, some scenes didn't hit for me as much (like Mami's death and the twist that magical girls become witches). And yet, the franchise pulled me in because of Madoka. Like Madoka, I love my family, but unlike her, I lack any friends (at least close ones). Seeing a girl as pure as Madoka sacrificing herself for the sake of the world, people she knows, people she doesn't know, people she loves, and maybe even people she hates, resonates with me. Madoka was my template for what I like in a magical girl: heroism, kindness, humility, humor, and love. And even if one becomes selfish at some point, Madoka really does show that a good deed can outdo all the wrong ones. This is also the reason why I (to some extent) despise Homura and hope she doesn't succeed in her rebellion against the law of cycles and Madoka's sacrifice. She's going up against everything I admire. Those are just my thoughts. I really enjoyed the video and seeing Madoka through someone else's perspective!
@enanomi I dont think they mean that at all, when looking at Rebellion one realizes that Madoka is very much not acting like herself in the end, it shows that despite being technically "happy" homura has even if unintentionally warped her personality to fit her view of madoka, madoka isnt human anymore shes both god and girl and her godly half is very much unhappy being appart from her, I believe homura isnt evil for what she did but I also believe Homura knew what she was doing wasn't good either
Homura is so damn tragic like I genuinely understand why she went so crazy in rebellion but what homura wants and what madoka wants fundamentally will never align with each other. Universally they are literally destined to not be together and I genuinely hope homura finds something to live for in herself and not madoka
It's always a releif to see someone else understand the toxic nature of Madoka and Homura's love. The shippers hate me for it but Homura has to let Madoka become Self-Actualised and Madoka needs to stop throwing herself off the dang bridges.
Oh totally, I love madoka magica so much, and I love madoka and homuras love, but they’re also 14 and both went to extremes to save each other, sacrificing themselves without even asking if that’s what the other wanted, because they’re young and stoopid, but they’re *my* young and stoopid damnit 😂
I don't think i've met anyone who thinks their love is healthy, it is pure doom but it is there none the less. I personally think the 4th movie is gonna end up with Madoka dead in a way that is unchangeable and permanent, and Homura has to live on with the consequences of her actions. Or its gonna be a bs cashgrab 2 parter
@@onionarmpit do not go to the madoka subreddit lmao, you'll literally get put on a list if you say "Homura did everything wrong" and that her relationship with Madoka is not leading up to a happy ending 😂
I love Madoka Magica ^^ It really surprised me on how it showed the darker side of what a magical girl could be ^^ Madoka, Mami & Homora are my favourite characters and what made the anime for me ^^ Great video as always ^^
I really love this series, I personally felt like Homura wanted Madoka to live for herself and experience her own joy instead of always worrying about others. I definitely feel like Homura is more interested in her own view of what Madoka wants than actually what Madoka wants but at the same time, she can't really ask Madoka if she's happy or what she wants since Madoka is so distant in the Rebellion movie. Homura spent a lot of time trying to save Madoka too, close to 100 timelines just living in a loop, her whole life, all she's wanted is to protect Madoka and she definitely doesn't see Madoka as someone who's capable of looking out for her own interests. I believe there's some reasons for her to feel that way after spending more time with Madoka(albeit more and more distantly each time) than she's actually lived. She doesn't have the ability to step back and see the way things could change in each timeline because she's seen the same thing happen so many times. Homura has known Madoka's regrets and weaknesses so deeply and each time she failed probably took something out of her emotionally to a point of severe damage. I really hope in the upcoming movie that Madoka and Homura can talk and Madoka can prove that she doesn't need to be taken care of anymore so Homura can let her go. I want them both to be happy and find resolution. I don't want witches to begin existing in universe again.
Madoka's struggle to act selfishly is something the series brings up. But Homura is also being quite selfish by limiting Madoka's freedom. It's a great recipe for tension
This is my last comment I swear, but the reason why Madoka is my favorite fictional character of all time is because I think Madoka represents survivors guilt. Throughout the Madoka's been desperate in need to help her friends as she watches everyone fighting for their lives as magical girls. She saw mami died, she saw the truth of soul gems, she got to witness syaak break down, realizing that she just an empty shell, seeing sayaka as a witch. Knowing that Homura has spend decades of years trying to save Madoka, and the end of the world that Madoka saw in her dream. Madoka is willing to do anything to help her friends and during these events, she was scared, not doing what to do. She wanted to be a magical girl but Homura would stop her everytime. When Homies gave up and admits defeat, madoka come in to help her and to put a stop to this once and for all. When kyubey offer her a wish, mami told her to treat herself with eh wish bu madoka doesn't know what to wish on. When madoka saw Kyoko and sayaka fighting, madoka's was quick to make a wish sign sh wanted to stop the two from fighting but now since homura'a down and there's nobody left to fight, madoka makes the wish to erase all witches so that not just her and her friends, but every magical girl from the past, present and future won't have to suffer from despair every again. I can't explain madoka's character arc as much as you did but I just wanted to share what I felt about madoka and why she my all time favorite.
genuinely one of the best madoka magica analyses…if not the best one ive ever seen.. i always see people over complicate the show or misrepresent the show by fixating on minor details without looking at the show as a whole. Genuinely an amazing watch thank you for making this
GOD this was so good. thank you for creating it! it really helps put into words why i love madoka magica so much, its usually the "darkest" shows with the most hopeful messages. madoka magica is about love, hope, growing up, and like you said, our fleeting connections with others making life worth living. i truly think the next movie will expand on homura's selfishness. i think madoka will forcibly (with the help of her friends) break free from this cycle homura has forced them all into, that they'll no longer be stuck in this birdcage. that you're not really *living* if you never get hurt. theres so much i wish i could eloquently explain, but you did a wonderful job at at it in this vid!!!!! just subbed :3 . im glad you pointed out the nature of homura's obsession, and that the "good person/bad person" homura arguments dont really matter. homura wants to be the one depended on, she wants some sort of *control*, something that the endless march of time takes away from all of us. its just these are the consequences when she *gets* that control, its unnatural. the whole point is she's human, she wants to elongate the time she has with someone she loves, but by doing so she's going against nature. madoka's extreme selflessness in the show only happens because of homura keeping her from being able to do anything, after all. homura is the reason madoka makes her wish, and i think that makes it even harder for homura to bear. its just.............so good.......... despite it all madomagi says its not useless to dream, and to hope, and to wish for a better world. that girls deserve to have their wishes heard and granted
This was a wonderful video essay! I always love hearing people talk about this show cause there is always something interesting someone has to say about it.
Ice this maybe your best one yet I love the breakdown you did and it actually makes me really want to watch the show. I’ve heard about it for years, but wasn’t aware of how dark it actually was which is maybe why it’s so popular. Great work.
I do think that in the story of both the anime and the movie, they convey very well the theme of Homura alone has achieved adulthood. Not only repeating the loop multiple granted her knowlegde and time to mature the others didn't have enough, she also learned to be selfish as Madoka's mother tells is necessary to grown into adulthood, and Homura is not afraid to break someone else's happy ending for hers, to prolongue her connections, even if she is dissatisfied. It also connects very well with the themes of womenhood, where pursuing your own interests will have you villanized and repreatedly shun for it. At the end of the movie her efforts achieve the closest to her wishes, but not what she needs, and perhaps she is adamantly refusing her needs for she knows that would be her actual end, and Homura embody the refusal to yield.
I’m gonna edit this as I watch through this: I don’t really agree with the idea that homura wasn’t happy in her world because she couldn’t protect madoka. She wasn’t happy in her world because she started to realize things weren’t right; nightmares weren’t the enemies magical girls fought against it was wraiths and when Homura and Kyoko try to leave mitakihara city they can’t. Very importantly, Homura originally doesn’t like the new world because she sees it as a world that defiles Madoka’s original wish, a wish that made it so homura wasn’t able to protect her anymore. Also, I disagree big time with the idea that homura split madoka off from the law of cycles so have a version of her she could protect. Homura, while putting up a facade, was clearly unhappy with what she did and probably resents herself deeply as seen with her Clara dolls throwing tomatoes at her. She says herself that she knows that one day Madoka will become her “enemy” but that she doesn’t care and that she’ll keep wishing for a world where Madoka can just be happy. Which she wasn’t wrong to, there are many little details hinting that Madoka wasn’t happy as a god; in the MadoMagi ending “See You Tomorrow”, many of the lyrics are implied to be from Madoka’s perspective as a god, putting on a brave face even as she misses all her family and friends. And while Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyoko, and Nagisa are all seen having fun with each other or their families at the end of the movie, Homura’s alone. With no one else but Kyubey there with her. Speaking of Kyubey, something to note about Kyubey’s involvement in the movie is that his whole plan was luring out Madoka using Homura so he could control her, and he almost succeeds in doing so if it weren’t for what Homura did; which hints to the idea that Homura probably had no other choice but to split madoka from the law of cycles. Was what Homura did ultimately flawed and maybe even a little selfish, yes. I don’t disagree with that. I just think that Homura’s actions in rebellion have far more complexity to them than her just wanting Madoka’s dependency again. Sorry if I missed anything; I just thought your analysis on Homura was interesting even if I did disagree with it ^^
Having been on the ground floor when Madoka released, instead following the studio SHAFT arthouse X Gen Urobutcher despair, it's at least a little neat to still see essays out there that can give further insight in Madoka after more than decade. While "MADOKA DECONSTRUCTS MAGICAL GIRLS" has become it's own stagnation as a perverse admiration, having seen more than a couple of Gen Urobuchi's interviews on "needing to reintroduce 'poison' for children's entertainment to teach them of the world", i.e. mirroring the "Either you die a Magical Girl or live long enough to become a Witch" conundrum. I see Madoka in continuity more with Gen's themes than within Magical Girl's genre ethos; Partially since up to that point, beyond random episodes of CardCaptors on cable, the only Magical Girl show I'd watched to completion by then was amusingly Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, directed by the OTHER Madoka Showrunner, Akiyuki Shinbo. But also since so much of Gen's "BEING MEGUCA IS SUFFERING" is an extension of "BEING A HERO OF JUSTICE/SEIGI NO MIKATA IS SUFFERING" (worth noting that Sayaka's theme is literally titled Hero of Justice etc..). Although it is more so that the direness and despair exentuate "truly pure heroism", in one of his quotes: "The Darkness is there so that they can shine" -Interview 2013 in Kamen Rider Kuuga, Agito, Ryuki retrospective. Still, I actually deeply enjoyed the emphasis that even within despair that "the bonds of connection are our salvation", in Mami's respite from loneliness, Kyouko's last act of mercy for Sayaka, and paradoxically twisted where Madoka's ultimate Self-Sacrifice contrasts Homura's selfish rebuke with a "gift of immortality", ironically that their love for each other is incompatible in understanding each other. Actually it's that theme of Bonds and Connection that winds up being a major theme in Magia Record, and as one of the maybe 20 people who actually watched the whole spin-off anime, I'm also one of the maybe 3 people who actually enjoyed the bittersweet conclusion. In extension and it's own conversation of Magia Record > OG, it further pushes a "Sacrifice to end all Suffering", in incredible directions, in Tragedy, but also selflessness, and even in truth that being Heroic itself breaks the ability to understand those who are "less heroic". But to continue back to the Video and OG's point, the Salvation of Bonds manifests quite literally through Connection, but rather than extend and falsely prolong despair via Doppel system (basically soft-Witchdom if you vent your despair, with unknown side-effects), the conclusion that it is in Sharing the Burden of being Magical Girls that saves. In more eloquent terms, while so many memes of Gen and Madoka being "Being Meguca is suffering" and along side Rebellion's cliff-hanger downer, Magia Record dares to respond that even through an inevitable tragedy, because all these Magical Girls can share the burden, that it ISN'T a mistake to become a Magical Girl for the connection of others.
I loved reading this comment. I found Madoka while binging other magical girl shows and while I recognized its darkness, I do think its aesthetic stuck with me more than anything. As an adult, it was fun to see what still held up and what I could've missed. I should check out Nanoha.
@@cureice Will disclose even as a big fan, that Nanoha did pioneer the late-night side of Magical Girls meaning some sketchy otaku fanservice (nothing on Kill La Kill levels but it is worth noting) but also had hard-hitting hero drama that I haven't seen replicated even from later shows. It's still definitely worth checking out, especially in having the major sapphic ship build throughout the main Nanoha stories and while it's mostly been a collab/merch well until this year, I found the right level of "Connecting with your adversaries with both force and kindness" lead all the way into it's last double feature movies of Reflection-Detonation And even still, both Nana Mizuki's big role in Nanoha, and Aoi Yuki in Madoka do later lead to Symphogear which is very much in the same lineage (can't wait for the same team to be working on Princession Orchestra in April)
@@Anonlyso Nanoha pioneered Mecha Magical Girl hybrids (and RWBY on the western side) but its far from the first Otaku audience magical girl show. Mahō Tsukai Tai!, Jubei-chan, Akihabara Dennō Gumi and the Pretty Sammy OVA already brought in the male otaku audience. While clearly descended from Nanoha, Symphogear is more of a mecha/henshin hero throwback series than a Magical Girl one. By StrikerS most of the magical girl parts of Nanoha were vestigal. Mecha Musume series like Strike Witches and Skygirls are rarely counted as Magical Girl shows but owe more than a little to Nanoha and Mai Otome (even if Bubblegum Crisis established the female mecha show long before then).
Sailor Moon was my first magical girl series to give me interested in the franchise of magical girls and to be honest I always wanted to be a magical girl when I was little I would always imagine myself and my cute magical girl outfit with my companion by my side with my friends, also being magical girls I always love that child like wonder and that’s why I will always love magical girl shows because of how interesting and how heartwarming or how tragic the series can be and the ones that made me feel comfort like precure and Tokyo new new and my all-time favorite that you probably never heard of Soushin shoujo matoi or matoi the sacred slayer which is something that I will always run back to when I need something to watch
I don't think that most of these sacrifices are intended to be worthwhile. I think that the underlying theme is that only with labor can the wish be worthwhile.
I've talked on end about how Homura essentially doesn't view Madoka as a person anymore. Everything she did was out of love for Madoka, but through the endless timeloops and going back to fix things, her knowledge about the world exceeds Madoka's by a vast amount. She can basically predict the future, and she uses that ability all the time to protect Madoka. Madoka is an object of her protection. Homura loves Madoka, but Madoka is not the person she loves. She loves the idea of Madoka, the fantasy of being able to give Madoka what she loved Madoka for giving her. Love, especially romantic crushes, and unrequited love, essentially dehumanises the object of affection.
Whatever you think of this show, I think it is relavent even 10 years later. Its still pretty revolutionary too. Not just for redifining the Magical Girl genera, but of its perspective on humanity through the characters. Its a subversion of a fantasy, but a very realistic one. It looks at the magical girl story and says "No, this is probably what would actually happen." Even Kiyube serves to point this out. He says repeatedly that the magical girl gets what she wants (paraphrasing obv), but he does it in such a way that its clear thats not all shes signing up for. He never expressly says the down sides, but he does show them, and does admit to them when questioned (at least somewhat). Mortality too, is definatly a fair argument with this show. Kyubei definatly doesnt see the girl's lives in the same way they (or we) do. They are fuel and a means to an end. Nothing more. People say its a message on cruelty, but I think its more accuratly described as a message on empathy. Not everyone has as much empathy or shows it in the same way, and thats ok. Just look at Homura. I can't shake the notion that her desire to protect Madoka, while selfish, stemms from a place of empathy. She doesn't want Madoka to suffer, because she doesn't want to suffer. They are foils for eachother. Madoka wants to save everyone, but Homura wants to prevent Madoka from doing that so that neither of them have to suffer, nevermind the rest of the world or the magical girls in it. Both, to some extent, are empathetic notions, even if Homura's is definatly more selfish than empathetic. She's the bad guy of the series, but she isn't a bad guy. She does tell them the truth. Her role, more or less, is to show what being a magical girl is really like, above and beyond what kyubei says.
Magical girls becoming witches to me was such a poignant message to me, bc how could girls go through such a cruel world and not feel fury. They become witches bc what powerful magical woman wouldn’t retaliate against a world that put them through so much
I really do love that Madoka’s development in the show, growing into someone confident and strong, was in small part thanks to Homura helping Madoka realize that someone out there values somebody as “insignificant” as her and was willing to sacrifice so much for her. Homura helped Madoka grow but sadly Homura doesn’t see this in Rebellion and effectively controls her in an effort to save her. At the end of Madoka Magica Madokami tells Sayaka the only way to truly save Sayaka was to make it so she never made the wish, but she understood Sayaka would never want this and thus let’s her pass on. Madoka respects and understands people, all she wanted from her wish was to give every magical girl in history some form of dignity when they pass on. In contrast, when Homura gains power she “saves” Madoka without ever truly understanding and respecting why Madoka made that wish to begin with, that the wish Madoka made was inspired by Homura fighting for her for so long. It’s genuinely an interesting contrast and I can’t wait to see how the new movie concludes(?) this story.
Something I want to point out is although Homura is selfish for ripping Madoka from the Law of cycles, Madoka basically says she's unhappy as it. You say Homura wants the meek and helpless Madoka, but I feel she ,mostly, just want her to be happy in the end. And the reason she wanted to break out of the 'Perfect world' was because she realized Madoka was in danger from Kuuybi.
They should put a warning for new watchers cuz people who watched the show are not this same people they used to be before watching the show.... After watching it... I started constantly thinking about God and wither or not I believe in him 😭
A lot of people watch Madoka Magica because they know the premise. I read the manga, then watched the anime, with absolutely ZERO awareness of what it was, at like 12. And I absolutely loved it
Madoka: I will perform the greatest act of sacrifice for the good of all magical girls, and in fact the good of all beings, and become a pillar of eternal hope out of love for others (becomes a god and creates a literal heaven) Homura: I am sad about this. I, the Catholic in the group, will BECOME THE DEVIL FROM THE BIBLE and drag you down from your throne so I can ensure that you live a happy life. Madoka: homura I literally don’t want that why are you doing this? Homura, the devil from the Bible: AI YO
Im a big fan of seeing someone re-examine the original precipice of the series and subsequent franchise. With the release of side stories, games, manga, anime, etc. I feel like many of the main themes of the original anime were beginning to be a bit forgotten. Instead choosing to delve further into nitty-gritty lore details. Overall I enjoy that you're willing to focus on what the show was trying to talk about. A look at humanity, connection and care.
Two things that put Mami's death after achieving a moment of happiness in context for me: 1. Madoka takes heavy inspiration from Goethe's Faust, and Faust quotes are heavily referenced (in runes) in the first couple episodes. The deal Faust makes with Mephistopheles is that if he can give a moment so blissful he wishes to remain it forever, the Devil gets his soul. This pretty much mirrors Mami experiencing such a moment of bliss before immediately dying. 2. There is a route in the Portable game (the Bonus Route) where Homura basically goes around fulfilling all of the girl's true wishes so they can be happy and not turn into witches. They all survive and fight Walpurgisnacht together but are not strong enough to win. It felt to me like kind of a longer exploration of the themes of Mami's death and made me think back to it. Basically the idea that magical girls cannot achieve happiness and live.
less than a minuet in and I can tell I am probably going to agree with this 100% as I did a critical analysis video years ago about how Madoka Magica isn't horror but just another magical girl anime that shows what everyone thinks of the genre vs what the genre actually is once you get a bit into it A lot of people don't even consider that the original Sailor Moon manga ended their first arc with an attempted s*icde/m*rder between the protagonist and her brainwashed love interest don't even get me started on the heavily censored anime version of the first arc where all the girls just straight up died and needed to be resurrected with memory wipe for season 2 genre is way dark than people think and madoka was trying to teach people that
i never took homura's intentions as to keep madoka dependent, weak, or a child forever. as long as madoka continues to become a magical girl, she cannot ACTUALLY grow up. she will always die or become something else. homura wants madoka the human girl to have a chance to grow up and become a human woman, not a witch or a god or a corpse.
Well this is the first video I've seen that hasn't mentioned kubey at all. He is the pinnacle of the whole thing. I disagree about the themes. It's about how something bright and promising actually turns out to be a really bad idea and how they were too young and innocent to understand that at the time and the moral of the story is don't become a magical girl.
The magical girl power up isn’t the driving motivation for most though, it’s the all encompassing wish that you get for trading your soul (whether it’s renewed life or time travel or a piece of cake)
10:46 I don't like sayaka but I do love her wittting and her moments that make her realistic. She much better in the Rebillon movie and even with her good writhing, I just can't stand her in the anime. I just don't like how her realistic scenes are executed(aside from the train scene) especially with her interactions with Homura
this isn't some profound new idea youve come across. any actual magical girl fan could've told you this from the numerous references to sailor moon and revolutionary girl utena they have in the show and movie💀
What I've gathered is whether Homura's a good or bad person doesn't matter compared to the fact that she IS a person, and the choices she made, good or bad, were made out of her humanity
Yeah, I think the need to find a "good" and "bad" person in their relationship distracts from why they both turned out the way they did
im not sure I agree here. As homura says herself, she is /not a person/. Not anymore. Her love for Madoka, while so /human/, is what pulled her away from personhood. Now she has a purpose and she fulfils it, painfully effectively, no matter how pointless it is. I think this is a big part of homura’s character! She doesn’t care for her personhood, her wellbeing she only cares for madoka’s. She isn’t the girl from the start anymore, she’s lost any of the human characteristics there, perhaps she is evil. But she’s evil /for madoka/ and that’s the only part that matters to her. It’s hard to even call her selfish with how absurdly self sacrificial she is
The way you described how Homura keeps Madoka from growing was never something I thought about after watching the show. I thought that it was more something like a refusal to let madoka disappear or become a Witch, but those are in fact the same thing. Madoka is like a domesticated bird that wants to fly, but Homura keeps the bird caged because she knows that if the bird flies, it would probably not survive in the wild.
I think its less the fear of it not surviving in the wild, but moreso the fear that the bird will no longer *need* her to survive. its the fear that the bird will fly and soar and homura will no longer be able to keep it in her sight.
There’s a reason her original wish wasn’t for Madoka to be saved, but for herself being the one to protect her.
@@calacalamari3977this was pretty much disproven in rebellion. At the end of the show madoka made her wish and homura let her bc madoka told her that that’s what she truly wants. Then after homura started finding out the truth in rebellion and was talking to madoka she told her about a nightmare she had which was basically the end of the anime, then madoka started comforting homura and told her that she could never be happy never being with her friends and family again. That’s when homura started spiralling and regretting letting madoka make that wish. She never wanted to trap madoka, not even at the end of rebellion. She wanted her to be happy but knew that madoka would never prioritise her own happiness over someone else’s. Pls watch the anime and the movie again I can’t stand homura slander 😭.
@@Kayta-Lindathere has been countless straight romances where that has happened before and no one has ever had an issue with it but god forbid a lesbian wants to save and protect the person they love.
@ i'm not slandering homura! trust me, her and madoka are my absolute FAVORITE characters to come out of this series, and probably in my top 5 characters over all in general. homura is a very interesting character for me to analyze. it's not slander to point out her actions *are* selfish and possessive.
homura has grown completely disconnected from madoka and the rest of humanity because of her time loops. its very interesting to think about and *see* the effects that had on her character which is why she singles madoka out almost like an object to attain instead of a person to connect to. in her mission to save madoka, she grew farther and farther away from what she originally had with her, which was a genuine and real connection (that wasn't built on fear, lies, or anything of the sort).
its important to the note that everyone in homura's labrynth during rebellion are in some way under homura's subconscious control. madoka acts the way *homura* expects her to act, just like everyone else. its why sayaka and kyoko are close friends and kyoko lives at sayaka's house in this world while mami still lives alone (despite mami and kyoko having known eachother longer). madoka says "i could never do this" even though she DID, and she *has* made that sacrifice. madoka during the flower field scene has none of her prior memories and is effected by the labyrinth, she's saying things homura subconsciously wants to hear. the entire labyrinth is a reflection of homura's subconscious.
you can say what you will about homura's intentions, but it doesnt change the fact homura took away madoka's agency and forced her to live the way *homura* wanted her to. like that part still very much happened
3:43 also this part when you consider Mami as "mother" it got me flashbacks of Bebe because Bebe means "baby" in French I think. Mami and Bebe... Mommy and baby...
Awww, that's sweet. I never even noticed
Also in Spanish, baby is bebé, but some people say bebe so close enough.
Also Mami is mommy in Spanish
It needs the "e" to be changed into "é" (bébé) but yeah that's basically it. It's also not the only language where mami and bebe echo the words for mother and child (maman, mama, mommy...)
@@hyobro8392 Its called a 'nursery word' in linguistics.
I dont think Homura is selfish in that she wants Madoka to keep depending on her, i think she just genuinely believes Madoka, her version Madoka, needs saving. In rebellion the law of cycles has forgotten about her godhood so when they talk in the feild of lillies, it really is Madoka talking to Homura, who is already aware that this is her labyrinth. Madoka tells Homura that there is no way she'd ever go alone to somewhere no one else can see her again because she's so wimpy, Homura took that as Madoka admitting that becoming Madokami was scary and made her very sad. Madokami the God is able to recognise that her existence/ non existence is for the better of all magical girls, but Madoka the human girl still just wants to be with her friends and family and is hurting deeply, the two beings still exist together clearly as otherwise Homura wouldn't of been able to rip them apart. Madoka's wish is objectively very selfless yes, but also very selfish, Madoka has consistently shown her own low self-esteem at the beginning of the series, she talks frequently about being nothing special and doubting if she is even worthy to be a magical girl, saving other people and making a difference on others is the only way she believes she can have value. She loves her friends and family, and wants them to be happy ofc, but she also believes they can be happy without her, undervaluing how much she means to them and hence disrespecting them, homura isn't the only one who remembered her, her little brother did too in someway which just showed the impact she had despite erasing herself. Her wish was very selfish to her loved ones, but benevolent to everyone else. I think Homura is the polar opposite, completely selfish to everyone else by ripping Madokami apart despite how much she's helped the world, but very selfless to the only one she loves and cares for. Personally i think Homura is the only one who sees Madoka, I think if Madoka had said anything to indicate that she was truly content with her descision in their conversation, then Homura would've let go and let Madokami take her away. Despite being this mature and mysterious character at the start and madoka being very childish and innocent, i think as things are now they've switched roles; Madoka is the mature one who sees that this is the way things have to be for the greater good who wants to grow and embraces suffering, Homura is the childish one who will stop at nothing to get what she wants who wanst things to stay the same and will go through suffering just to avoid it.
That's an interesting reading. Homura's takeaway from that convo lines up with her actions.
this is such an incredibly based take thank you
Love this analysis. I'll throw mine on top. tl;dr Madoka splitting in two is actually a necessary consequence of her graceful, general selflessness trying to coexist with Homura's own directed selflessness.
You have to ask how Homura could give in to despair and become a witch. Her wish must become a curse: she must realise that even as her wish was granted and Madoka was able to ascend under Homura's protection, Homura lost what she really wanted. Paradoxically, if Homura could accept Madoka's version of the ending, she could never reunite with Madoka because. Her faith that Madoka was waiting for her would keep her wish from becoming despair, and prevent her from achieving it.
If Madoka cannot save Homura directly, perhaps she could find an alternate route. If Madoka could indulge Homura's selfishness, Homura would never give in to despair, and Madoka's wish to save Homura would truly be fulfilled.
But if Homura is a paradox, Madoka is a tautology. Madoka wishes that she herself could never despair. Cureice said none of the girls got their real wishes, but that's not true in Madoka's case. Because for her to save herself from becoming a curse, she must have made the perfect wish: a wish that she can never regret or doubt.
And, importantly, this isn't a result of Madoka being a perfect wish-maker. Homura is the counterexample to that. So how is Madoka's wish perfect? It made itself perfect, as part of her ascension. Madoka became a being incapable of refusing salvation to any who need it, incapable of regret, incapable of doubt. She wished away her own agency in order to protect herself from its consequences.
And thus, the true paradox: Madoka's tautology and Homura's paradox cannot simultaneously exist. Madoka's wish-the law of metaphysics she created-demands she complete the impossible task of saving Homura, while simultaneously making it impossible. The two wishes each insist that Homura and Madoka be allowed to sacrifice themselves to save the other.
And so the goddess must be split in two, and the world rewritten, to resolve this contradiction at the heart of Madoka's new reality. Homura said it herself. It was always going to end this way.
Madoka was one of the first anime that introduced me to he world of magical girls. As a result, unlike every other magical girl veteran viewer, some scenes didn't hit for me as much (like Mami's death and the twist that magical girls become witches). And yet, the franchise pulled me in because of Madoka. Like Madoka, I love my family, but unlike her, I lack any friends (at least close ones). Seeing a girl as pure as Madoka sacrificing herself for the sake of the world, people she knows, people she doesn't know, people she loves, and maybe even people she hates, resonates with me. Madoka was my template for what I like in a magical girl: heroism, kindness, humility, humor, and love. And even if one becomes selfish at some point, Madoka really does show that a good deed can outdo all the wrong ones. This is also the reason why I (to some extent) despise Homura and hope she doesn't succeed in her rebellion against the law of cycles and Madoka's sacrifice. She's going up against everything I admire.
Those are just my thoughts. I really enjoyed the video and seeing Madoka through someone else's perspective!
I'm glad that Madoka resonated with you. She's a really good character
so youd rather madoka, a normal teenage girl, be taken advantage of, stripped of all her personal relationships and suffer eternally?
@enanomi I dont think they mean that at all, when looking at Rebellion one realizes that Madoka is very much not acting like herself in the end, it shows that despite being technically "happy" homura has even if unintentionally warped her personality to fit her view of madoka, madoka isnt human anymore shes both god and girl and her godly half is very much unhappy being appart from her, I believe homura isnt evil for what she did but I also believe Homura knew what she was doing wasn't good either
Homura is so damn tragic like I genuinely understand why she went so crazy in rebellion but what homura wants and what madoka wants fundamentally will never align with each other. Universally they are literally destined to not be together and I genuinely hope homura finds something to live for in herself and not madoka
@enanomi That's such a bad faith asumtion
It's always a releif to see someone else understand the toxic nature of Madoka and Homura's love. The shippers hate me for it but Homura has to let Madoka become Self-Actualised and Madoka needs to stop throwing herself off the dang bridges.
Yeah, they're both such extreme versions of selfishness and selflessness.
Oh totally, I love madoka magica so much, and I love madoka and homuras love, but they’re also 14 and both went to extremes to save each other, sacrificing themselves without even asking if that’s what the other wanted, because they’re young and stoopid, but they’re *my* young and stoopid damnit 😂
I don't think i've met anyone who thinks their love is healthy, it is pure doom but it is there none the less. I personally think the 4th movie is gonna end up with Madoka dead in a way that is unchangeable and permanent, and Homura has to live on with the consequences of her actions. Or its gonna be a bs cashgrab 2 parter
@@onionarmpit do not go to the madoka subreddit lmao, you'll literally get put on a list if you say "Homura did everything wrong" and that her relationship with Madoka is not leading up to a happy ending 😂
Pretty sure shippers know Madohomu isn't healthy at all 😭 I haven't seen anyone claiming that they're not toxic
I love how every Madoka essay has something new to it? This was really nice to watch < 3
Glad you enjoyed it 🎉
I love Madoka Magica ^^ It really surprised me on how it showed the darker side of what a magical girl could be ^^ Madoka, Mami & Homora are my favourite characters and what made the anime for me ^^ Great video as always ^^
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really love this series, I personally felt like Homura wanted Madoka to live for herself and experience her own joy instead of always worrying about others. I definitely feel like Homura is more interested in her own view of what Madoka wants than actually what Madoka wants but at the same time, she can't really ask Madoka if she's happy or what she wants since Madoka is so distant in the Rebellion movie. Homura spent a lot of time trying to save Madoka too, close to 100 timelines just living in a loop, her whole life, all she's wanted is to protect Madoka and she definitely doesn't see Madoka as someone who's capable of looking out for her own interests. I believe there's some reasons for her to feel that way after spending more time with Madoka(albeit more and more distantly each time) than she's actually lived. She doesn't have the ability to step back and see the way things could change in each timeline because she's seen the same thing happen so many times. Homura has known Madoka's regrets and weaknesses so deeply and each time she failed probably took something out of her emotionally to a point of severe damage.
I really hope in the upcoming movie that Madoka and Homura can talk and Madoka can prove that she doesn't need to be taken care of anymore so Homura can let her go. I want them both to be happy and find resolution. I don't want witches to begin existing in universe again.
Madoka's struggle to act selfishly is something the series brings up. But Homura is also being quite selfish by limiting Madoka's freedom. It's a great recipe for tension
This is my last comment I swear, but the reason why Madoka is my favorite fictional character of all time is because I think Madoka represents survivors guilt. Throughout the Madoka's been desperate in need to help her friends as she watches everyone fighting for their lives as magical girls. She saw mami died, she saw the truth of soul gems, she got to witness syaak break down, realizing that she just an empty shell, seeing sayaka as a witch. Knowing that Homura has spend decades of years trying to save Madoka, and the end of the world that Madoka saw in her dream. Madoka is willing to do anything to help her friends and during these events, she was scared, not doing what to do. She wanted to be a magical girl but Homura would stop her everytime. When Homies gave up and admits defeat, madoka come in to help her and to put a stop to this once and for all. When kyubey offer her a wish, mami told her to treat herself with eh wish bu madoka doesn't know what to wish on. When madoka saw Kyoko and sayaka fighting, madoka's was quick to make a wish sign sh wanted to stop the two from fighting but now since homura'a down and there's nobody left to fight, madoka makes the wish to erase all witches so that not just her and her friends, but every magical girl from the past, present and future won't have to suffer from despair every again. I can't explain madoka's character arc as much as you did but I just wanted to share what I felt about madoka and why she my all time favorite.
@@Idkmanfanpan She's incredibly selfless. It's genuinely inspiring
This is easily one of the best video analysis I've ever seen, it's well written and explained and made me want to re-watch the anime in a new light.
Glad you liked it🥳 can't wait for the new movie
genuinely one of the best madoka magica analyses…if not the best one ive ever seen.. i always see people over complicate the show or misrepresent the show by fixating on minor details without looking at the show as a whole. Genuinely an amazing watch thank you for making this
Glad you enjoyed it. One of the videos I've worked the hardest on.
GOD this was so good. thank you for creating it! it really helps put into words why i love madoka magica so much, its usually the "darkest" shows with the most hopeful messages. madoka magica is about love, hope, growing up, and like you said, our fleeting connections with others making life worth living. i truly think the next movie will expand on homura's selfishness. i think madoka will forcibly (with the help of her friends) break free from this cycle homura has forced them all into, that they'll no longer be stuck in this birdcage. that you're not really *living* if you never get hurt. theres so much i wish i could eloquently explain, but you did a wonderful job at at it in this vid!!!!! just subbed :3 . im glad you pointed out the nature of homura's obsession, and that the "good person/bad person" homura arguments dont really matter. homura wants to be the one depended on, she wants some sort of *control*, something that the endless march of time takes away from all of us. its just these are the consequences when she *gets* that control, its unnatural. the whole point is she's human, she wants to elongate the time she has with someone she loves, but by doing so she's going against nature. madoka's extreme selflessness in the show only happens because of homura keeping her from being able to do anything, after all. homura is the reason madoka makes her wish, and i think that makes it even harder for homura to bear. its just.............so good.......... despite it all madomagi says its not useless to dream, and to hope, and to wish for a better world. that girls deserve to have their wishes heard and granted
Loved reading this. Considering we have so much to discuss based on 12 episodes and a movie I can only imagine what the fourth will bring
This was a wonderful video essay! I always love hearing people talk about this show cause there is always something interesting someone has to say about it.
Thanks. It's such a rich show
i havent watched this yet but the comments are giving me hope god bless
Ice this maybe your best one yet I love the breakdown you did and it actually makes me really want to watch the show. I’ve heard about it for years, but wasn’t aware of how dark it actually was which is maybe why it’s so popular. Great work.
Thanks! This was a huge project so I'm glad we all enjoyed it🥳🥳🥳
"The Magical Girl never becomes a Magical Woman... Only a Witch."
I do think that in the story of both the anime and the movie, they convey very well the theme of Homura alone has achieved adulthood. Not only repeating the loop multiple granted her knowlegde and time to mature the others didn't have enough, she also learned to be selfish as Madoka's mother tells is necessary to grown into adulthood, and Homura is not afraid to break someone else's happy ending for hers, to prolongue her connections, even if she is dissatisfied. It also connects very well with the themes of womenhood, where pursuing your own interests will have you villanized and repreatedly shun for it. At the end of the movie her efforts achieve the closest to her wishes, but not what she needs, and perhaps she is adamantly refusing her needs for she knows that would be her actual end, and Homura embody the refusal to yield.
Yeah, I love that about Homura
I’m gonna edit this as I watch through this:
I don’t really agree with the idea that homura wasn’t happy in her world because she couldn’t protect madoka. She wasn’t happy in her world because she started to realize things weren’t right; nightmares weren’t the enemies magical girls fought against it was wraiths and when Homura and Kyoko try to leave mitakihara city they can’t. Very importantly, Homura originally doesn’t like the new world because she sees it as a world that defiles Madoka’s original wish, a wish that made it so homura wasn’t able to protect her anymore.
Also, I disagree big time with the idea that homura split madoka off from the law of cycles so have a version of her she could protect. Homura, while putting up a facade, was clearly unhappy with what she did and probably resents herself deeply as seen with her Clara dolls throwing tomatoes at her. She says herself that she knows that one day Madoka will become her “enemy” but that she doesn’t care and that she’ll keep wishing for a world where Madoka can just be happy. Which she wasn’t wrong to, there are many little details hinting that Madoka wasn’t happy as a god; in the MadoMagi ending “See You Tomorrow”, many of the lyrics are implied to be from Madoka’s perspective as a god, putting on a brave face even as she misses all her family and friends. And while Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyoko, and Nagisa are all seen having fun with each other or their families at the end of the movie, Homura’s alone. With no one else but Kyubey there with her.
Speaking of Kyubey, something to note about Kyubey’s involvement in the movie is that his whole plan was luring out Madoka using Homura so he could control her, and he almost succeeds in doing so if it weren’t for what Homura did; which hints to the idea that Homura probably had no other choice but to split madoka from the law of cycles.
Was what Homura did ultimately flawed and maybe even a little selfish, yes. I don’t disagree with that. I just think that Homura’s actions in rebellion have far more complexity to them than her just wanting Madoka’s dependency again.
Sorry if I missed anything; I just thought your analysis on Homura was interesting even if I did disagree with it ^^
I love reading about Homura.
There's a lot going on in Rebellion, so I'm always happy to hear other perspectives.
Having been on the ground floor when Madoka released, instead following the studio SHAFT arthouse X Gen Urobutcher despair, it's at least a little neat to still see essays out there that can give further insight in Madoka after more than decade. While "MADOKA DECONSTRUCTS MAGICAL GIRLS" has become it's own stagnation as a perverse admiration, having seen more than a couple of Gen Urobuchi's interviews on "needing to reintroduce 'poison' for children's entertainment to teach them of the world", i.e. mirroring the "Either you die a Magical Girl or live long enough to become a Witch" conundrum.
I see Madoka in continuity more with Gen's themes than within Magical Girl's genre ethos; Partially since up to that point, beyond random episodes of CardCaptors on cable, the only Magical Girl show I'd watched to completion by then was amusingly Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, directed by the OTHER Madoka Showrunner, Akiyuki Shinbo. But also since so much of Gen's "BEING MEGUCA IS SUFFERING" is an extension of "BEING A HERO OF JUSTICE/SEIGI NO MIKATA IS SUFFERING" (worth noting that Sayaka's theme is literally titled Hero of Justice etc..). Although it is more so that the direness and despair exentuate "truly pure heroism", in one of his quotes: "The Darkness is there so that they can shine" -Interview 2013 in Kamen Rider Kuuga, Agito, Ryuki retrospective.
Still, I actually deeply enjoyed the emphasis that even within despair that "the bonds of connection are our salvation", in Mami's respite from loneliness, Kyouko's last act of mercy for Sayaka, and paradoxically twisted where Madoka's ultimate Self-Sacrifice contrasts Homura's selfish rebuke with a "gift of immortality", ironically that their love for each other is incompatible in understanding each other.
Actually it's that theme of Bonds and Connection that winds up being a major theme in Magia Record, and as one of the maybe 20 people who actually watched the whole spin-off anime, I'm also one of the maybe 3 people who actually enjoyed the bittersweet conclusion. In extension and it's own conversation of Magia Record > OG, it further pushes a "Sacrifice to end all Suffering", in incredible directions, in Tragedy, but also selflessness, and even in truth that being Heroic itself breaks the ability to understand those who are "less heroic". But to continue back to the Video and OG's point, the Salvation of Bonds manifests quite literally through Connection, but rather than extend and falsely prolong despair via Doppel system (basically soft-Witchdom if you vent your despair, with unknown side-effects), the conclusion that it is in Sharing the Burden of being Magical Girls that saves.
In more eloquent terms, while so many memes of Gen and Madoka being "Being Meguca is suffering" and along side Rebellion's cliff-hanger downer, Magia Record dares to respond that even through an inevitable tragedy, because all these Magical Girls can share the burden, that it ISN'T a mistake to become a Magical Girl for the connection of others.
I loved reading this comment. I found Madoka while binging other magical girl shows and while I recognized its darkness, I do think its aesthetic stuck with me more than anything. As an adult, it was fun to see what still held up and what I could've missed. I should check out Nanoha.
@@cureice Will disclose even as a big fan, that Nanoha did pioneer the late-night side of Magical Girls meaning some sketchy otaku fanservice (nothing on Kill La Kill levels but it is worth noting) but also had hard-hitting hero drama that I haven't seen replicated even from later shows.
It's still definitely worth checking out, especially in having the major sapphic ship build throughout the main Nanoha stories and while it's mostly been a collab/merch well until this year, I found the right level of "Connecting with your adversaries with both force and kindness" lead all the way into it's last double feature movies of Reflection-Detonation
And even still, both Nana Mizuki's big role in Nanoha, and Aoi Yuki in Madoka do later lead to Symphogear which is very much in the same lineage (can't wait for the same team to be working on Princession Orchestra in April)
Yeah, people who call madoka a decontruction didn't understood or didn't actually watched madoka
@@Anonlyso Nanoha pioneered Mecha Magical Girl hybrids (and RWBY on the western side) but its far from the first Otaku audience magical girl show. Mahō Tsukai Tai!, Jubei-chan, Akihabara Dennō Gumi and the Pretty Sammy OVA already brought in the male otaku audience.
While clearly descended from Nanoha, Symphogear is more of a mecha/henshin hero throwback series than a Magical Girl one. By StrikerS most of the magical girl parts of Nanoha were vestigal. Mecha Musume series like Strike Witches and Skygirls are rarely counted as Magical Girl shows but owe more than a little to Nanoha and Mai Otome (even if Bubblegum Crisis established the female mecha show long before then).
This is so well articulated and put together, made me realize so many things I didn’t notice on my own about the story, thank you for the hard work!!
Glad you enjoyed it🎉
Sailor Moon was my first magical girl series to give me interested in the franchise of magical girls and to be honest I always wanted to be a magical girl when I was little I would always imagine myself and my cute magical girl outfit with my companion by my side with my friends, also being magical girls I always love that child like wonder and that’s why I will always love magical girl shows because of how interesting and how heartwarming or how tragic the series can be and the ones that made me feel comfort like precure and Tokyo new new and my all-time favorite that you probably never heard of Soushin shoujo matoi or matoi the sacred slayer which is something that I will always run back to when I need something to watch
Oh I should check that out👀
I know that you like them also and happy precure day
I don't think that most of these sacrifices are intended to be worthwhile. I think that the underlying theme is that only with labor can the wish be worthwhile.
I've talked on end about how Homura essentially doesn't view Madoka as a person anymore. Everything she did was out of love for Madoka, but through the endless timeloops and going back to fix things, her knowledge about the world exceeds Madoka's by a vast amount. She can basically predict the future, and she uses that ability all the time to protect Madoka. Madoka is an object of her protection. Homura loves Madoka, but Madoka is not the person she loves. She loves the idea of Madoka, the fantasy of being able to give Madoka what she loved Madoka for giving her. Love, especially romantic crushes, and unrequited love, essentially dehumanises the object of affection.
Great analysis! I'm glad so many people are sharing their thoughts on Homura's view of Madoka.
Have a happy new year Cure Ice
One thing I see constantly glossed over is that sayaka killed those men on the train or at least it’s heavily suggested
Yeah. Sayaka kill count: 2😔
Whatever you think of this show, I think it is relavent even 10 years later. Its still pretty revolutionary too. Not just for redifining the Magical Girl genera, but of its perspective on humanity through the characters. Its a subversion of a fantasy, but a very realistic one. It looks at the magical girl story and says "No, this is probably what would actually happen." Even Kiyube serves to point this out. He says repeatedly that the magical girl gets what she wants (paraphrasing obv), but he does it in such a way that its clear thats not all shes signing up for. He never expressly says the down sides, but he does show them, and does admit to them when questioned (at least somewhat). Mortality too, is definatly a fair argument with this show. Kyubei definatly doesnt see the girl's lives in the same way they (or we) do. They are fuel and a means to an end. Nothing more. People say its a message on cruelty, but I think its more accuratly described as a message on empathy. Not everyone has as much empathy or shows it in the same way, and thats ok. Just look at Homura. I can't shake the notion that her desire to protect Madoka, while selfish, stemms from a place of empathy. She doesn't want Madoka to suffer, because she doesn't want to suffer. They are foils for eachother. Madoka wants to save everyone, but Homura wants to prevent Madoka from doing that so that neither of them have to suffer, nevermind the rest of the world or the magical girls in it. Both, to some extent, are empathetic notions, even if Homura's is definatly more selfish than empathetic. She's the bad guy of the series, but she isn't a bad guy. She does tell them the truth. Her role, more or less, is to show what being a magical girl is really like, above and beyond what kyubei says.
Exactly! It's just playing with the tropes in its own way
Magical girls becoming witches to me was such a poignant message to me, bc how could girls go through such a cruel world and not feel fury. They become witches bc what powerful magical woman wouldn’t retaliate against a world that put them through so much
Exactly! That twist was amazing
I really do love that Madoka’s development in the show, growing into someone confident and strong, was in small part thanks to Homura helping Madoka realize that someone out there values somebody as “insignificant” as her and was willing to sacrifice so much for her. Homura helped Madoka grow but sadly Homura doesn’t see this in Rebellion and effectively controls her in an effort to save her. At the end of Madoka Magica Madokami tells Sayaka the only way to truly save Sayaka was to make it so she never made the wish, but she understood Sayaka would never want this and thus let’s her pass on. Madoka respects and understands people, all she wanted from her wish was to give every magical girl in history some form of dignity when they pass on. In contrast, when Homura gains power she “saves” Madoka without ever truly understanding and respecting why Madoka made that wish to begin with, that the wish Madoka made was inspired by Homura fighting for her for so long. It’s genuinely an interesting contrast and I can’t wait to see how the new movie concludes(?) this story.
That's a really good analysis. Another parallel between them
Something I want to point out is although Homura is selfish for ripping Madoka from the Law of cycles, Madoka basically says she's unhappy as it. You say Homura wants the meek and helpless Madoka, but I feel she ,mostly, just want her to be happy in the end.
And the reason she wanted to break out of the 'Perfect world' was because she realized Madoka was in danger from Kuuybi.
Yeah, Rebellion fleshed out her decision more than I focused on here
They should put a warning for new watchers cuz people who watched the show are not this same people they used to be before watching the show.... After watching it... I started constantly thinking about God and wither or not I believe in him 😭
Been a while since I’ve seen a fresh take on Madoka!
I'm happy to hear that :)
that kyoko connection was something i never noticed that was such a nice catch
Thanks
A lot of people watch Madoka Magica because they know the premise. I read the manga, then watched the anime, with absolutely ZERO awareness of what it was, at like 12. And I absolutely loved it
Best experience imo
@@cureice a g r e e d
Madoka: I will perform the greatest act of sacrifice for the good of all magical girls, and in fact the good of all beings, and become a pillar of eternal hope out of love for others (becomes a god and creates a literal heaven)
Homura: I am sad about this. I, the Catholic in the group, will BECOME THE DEVIL FROM THE BIBLE and drag you down from your throne so I can ensure that you live a happy life.
Madoka: homura I literally don’t want that why are you doing this?
Homura, the devil from the Bible: AI YO
The CHAD Protestant Kyouko VS The Blackpilled Catholic Homura
Im a big fan of seeing someone re-examine the original precipice of the series and subsequent franchise.
With the release of side stories, games, manga, anime, etc. I feel like many of the main themes of the original anime were beginning to be a bit forgotten. Instead choosing to delve further into nitty-gritty lore details.
Overall I enjoy that you're willing to focus on what the show was trying to talk about. A look at humanity, connection and care.
Glad you enjoyed it. I also worried that some of these themes were less discussed on UA-cam than I wanted them to be, so I made this video.
Two things that put Mami's death after achieving a moment of happiness in context for me: 1. Madoka takes heavy inspiration from Goethe's Faust, and Faust quotes are heavily referenced (in runes) in the first couple episodes. The deal Faust makes with Mephistopheles is that if he can give a moment so blissful he wishes to remain it forever, the Devil gets his soul. This pretty much mirrors Mami experiencing such a moment of bliss before immediately dying. 2. There is a route in the Portable game (the Bonus Route) where Homura basically goes around fulfilling all of the girl's true wishes so they can be happy and not turn into witches. They all survive and fight Walpurgisnacht together but are not strong enough to win. It felt to me like kind of a longer exploration of the themes of Mami's death and made me think back to it. Basically the idea that magical girls cannot achieve happiness and live.
I should really engage with Faust. It seems to have inspired a lot in Madoka
i love madoka magica sm
Same
*gasp* we need the tatsuya deep dive
less than a minuet in and I can tell I am probably going to agree with this 100% as I did a critical analysis video years ago about how Madoka Magica isn't horror but just another magical girl anime that shows what everyone thinks of the genre vs what the genre actually is once you get a bit into it
A lot of people don't even consider that the original Sailor Moon manga ended their first arc with an attempted s*icde/m*rder between the protagonist and her brainwashed love interest
don't even get me started on the heavily censored anime version of the first arc where all the girls just straight up died and needed to be resurrected with memory wipe for season 2
genre is way dark than people think and madoka was trying to teach people that
good essay 9/10
🎉🎉🎉
Hell yeah madoka magica video in 2025
Madoka Magica...now and forever!
We can all agree this show can be best described as wtffffffffffffffff
i never took homura's intentions as to keep madoka dependent, weak, or a child forever. as long as madoka continues to become a magical girl, she cannot ACTUALLY grow up. she will always die or become something else. homura wants madoka the human girl to have a chance to grow up and become a human woman, not a witch or a god or a corpse.
Well this is the first video I've seen that hasn't mentioned kubey at all. He is the pinnacle of the whole thing. I disagree about the themes. It's about how something bright and promising actually turns out to be a really bad idea and how they were too young and innocent to understand that at the time and the moral of the story is don't become a magical girl.
Yeah, but it's also drawing parallels between magical girlhood and other things.
The magical girl power up isn’t the driving motivation for most though, it’s the all encompassing wish that you get for trading your soul (whether it’s renewed life or time travel or a piece of cake)
10:46 I don't like sayaka but I do love her wittting and her moments that make her realistic. She much better in the Rebillon movie and even with her good writhing, I just can't stand her in the anime. I just don't like how her realistic scenes are executed(aside from the train scene) especially with her interactions with Homura
She's quite the divisive character
this isn't some profound new idea youve come across. any actual magical girl fan could've told you this from the numerous references to sailor moon and revolutionary girl utena they have in the show and movie💀
You missed the point. Thats exactly what I'm saying.
The vid changing thumbnails whenever I go into youtube: 👱🏽♂️➡️🧑🏿🦱➡️👨🏻🦳➡️👨🏼🦲➡️👩🏻🦰➡️🧓🏿
Gotta catch them all🤭