@@pdxcncI too am a machinist, and I just assumed to go with climb milling. Now that I hear you say it, it makes sense. I seriously appreciate you getting straight to the point. Keep it up 👌
Yeah, I was trying to cut out some plywood on my CNC mill, and have done lots of metal, and I have always used climb, but I'll be grabbing a compression bit and conventional milling. Thanks for that info. I just never would have thought of it, but it's obvious as heck looking back.
Very nice! Thanks for putting this out there. For some people with higher horsepower spindles, or just looking to improve efficiency, my ShopSabre IS408 w/ a 10hp spindle, we do 3/4" baltic birch plywood a lot, and we use 1/4" compression bits, single pass full depth, no tabs or onion skin, a bit over 300ipm and 16,000 rpm and get perfectly clean edges. We use 1/4" compression for just about everything due to it's ability to do smaller geometry compared to 3/8". Plus, for holding down small parts (around 10 in^2 surface area), full depth single pass, no onion or tabs is the way to go as the chips pack and keep them in place. Will never onion skin or tab again, but that's just our preference. Cheers!
@@pdxcnc you know they certainly will get blackening over time yes, I'm not 100% sure what I should expect for tool life with what I'm doing, but one 1/4" compression tool will last maybe 40-50 sheets before I feel the need to change it due to seeing some fuzzies start to appear on the part edges. Any thoughts? Always looking for input! :)
@garretehrick6137 yeah, I ask because I started out around those speeds and was blackening tools. I eventually found out I was feeding too slow and the blackening is too much heat in the cut. I’d push that 1/4” more like 380-390 IPM at 16k and you’ll see longer tool life
@@pdxcnc Thanks so much for the feedback! Full depth pass at those speeds for you? I have yet to break a bit at my feedrates, so I'm definitely keen to speed them up a bit.
Just watched this, Great and straight to the point. Love it. We cut ply and tbh quality doesn't matter on the edges as what we cut is all one time use mould forms. But I have always wanted to get better cuts and ill try the climb direction trick tomorrow morning. Will do 2 cuts on the same piece with both directions and see. Nice one
Did a test, with a change in cutting direction and also did with leaving some radial stock then doing a second finishing pass. Most deffinatly. a huge improvment to the finish. Now need to stop entering on a plunge, what sort of ramp angle would you recommend? usually using a 6mm compression on 18mm plywood.
is doing two seperate passes better than doing a "finishing pass" in the first operation? I often tell it to "finish at final depth" and it does just one finish. might just be a two ways to skin situation.
@@pdxcnc much appreciated (as are your contributions in the FB group). i'm coming from Shaper Origin so the idea of ploughing through 3/4 material in a single pass is blowing my mind at the moment. Seeing this, along with the right feeds and speeds, is helping me take that big step up and get off to a good start. I have it all wired up. Replumbing my compressed air system and Should be firing it up in the next few days as soon as I receive those bits! I noticed you don't have a tool library yet for vectric (still ramping up on fusion) - is it best to just add the bits I ordered manually? Any guidance you have there would be great.
Absolutely. Glad to hear it, there's a lot to get going when you setup your first machine. Libraries: Yeah we're still getting these going. Which tools are you looking for in Vectric, I can try to get those setup first?
Great video. I love using Fusion to design my ideas but I am struggling to figure out the toolpath/manufacturing aspect of fusion. Do you have or know any good ways to learn that? Thanks for any help
Cool video. I didn't know to use conventional with compression cutters, I don't cut much plywood. @7:39 Why do you use a second 2d contour operation for your finish pass rather use roughing and finish passes within the first 2d contour operation?
Hey Kip, thanks. Good question. I guess didn't explain that but often it works better to rough fully and not break the vacuum seal then come back with the lighter cut cleanup finish pass with much lower tool pressure.
@@pdxcnc I gotcha. But couldn't you achieve the same outcome by checking "Finish Only at Final Depth", and unchecking "Rough Final", setting a finishing stepdown all under the "Multiple Depths section" and then using the "Stepover" under the "Passes" Dropdown. To compare it with using two operations The finishing stepdown setting is essentially the axial stock to leave that was set in the roughing operation and the stepover is the radial stock to leave set on the roughing operation. I use a finish pass on most of the parts I make and this is how I do it with one operation. But I am well aware that there are usually multiple strategies to get the same or similar outcomes.
@7:58 - the ONLY part of the video I slightly disagree with. I don´t think a bit has to scream (vibrate!). at least I try to avoid it if possible. with a 8mm compression cutter and the sheet firmly sucked down with vacuum that is usually possible for me. If I push a tool too much or use it too long after it got too dull (which is totally possible with a compression cutter :) I had contact corrosion issues in the past. Iso30 in a HSD here too. looking at the tools in the toolchanger I have to say they look totally fine. This makes me wonder if my pullstud/drawbar thingie in the spindle maybe does not provide enough clamping force and that´s the reason for me babying my machine :D great video Justin!
I don't wholly disagree but a 1/4" (6.3mm) compression tool has always made that noise for us, no matter brand or age of my machine/spindle. I believe a combination of a lot of things but it's just not very rigid, maybe the tool holder/collet is sucking in and out as well, 18,000 RPM's can likely cause it to drop a little, ISO30 is no HSK.
Not sure on the CNC aspect cause I'm new to it, but for milling door parts out of hardwood (what I've been doing for 10 years) climb cut drastically reduces tear out, especially on harder woods.
No, there's a few options for nesting, one is called Arrange which is the easiest and what I used here. Would really depend on your use case, it's got considerable more control over every operation than VCarve. One caveat would be engraving, VCarve has Fusion beat there.
I’d also be interested in tool path strategies to avoid tear out on hardwoods. I have found no good way to turn a 90 degree outside profile without some splintering. I’ve also played with Fusion’s preserve sharp corners technique which seems to help, but still doesn’t work perfectly.
@@TheUofastudentI have a Stepcraft Q.408 with a 2.2kW ATC spindle and cut Birch plywood in one pass. MDF is much softer, so give it a try! I do mostly 3/8 compression bit at RPM 18K. If spindle speed is high, keep the feed speed high too. Seams crazy at first, but after trying and seeing such a difference in efficiency and finish quality, I’m glad I did lol
That’s awesome !! Due to the electricity limitations I have I can only run either the cnc or the vacuum pumps so gonna try to hold the 4 by 8 sheet with 8 screws to a clamped on board then try to cut the 5/8 plywood board in one pass with out a vacuum pump table turned on ! Do you think that would work ?
@@TheUofastudent I don't have a vacuum table, so I always screw the 3/4 ply down to the spoil board. After learning how to cut full sheets in matter of minutes, I wish I had a vacuum table!
Cheap plywood splitting is annoying. Mdf core would have been better for large slab doors. They stay flat forever vs plywood which will warp almost immediately in a garage.
🔻 Download the Cabinet model CAM + CNC Tool Kits s.pdxcnc.com/blogs/a/flawless-cnc-plywood
Great tips and great production! New to the CNC world so doing as much research as I can. Thanks for the vid!
Thanks, glad we can help
I tried the conventional cutting and that's a game changer. Thanks
💪
I am a cnc machinist and I didn’t know to cut conventional with a compression bit. Thanks for the info.
Yeah totally 🤜
@@pdxcncI too am a machinist, and I just assumed to go with climb milling. Now that I hear you say it, it makes sense. I seriously appreciate you getting straight to the point. Keep it up 👌
Yeah, I was trying to cut out some plywood on my CNC mill, and have done lots of metal, and I have always used climb, but I'll be grabbing a compression bit and conventional milling. Thanks for that info. I just never would have thought of it, but it's obvious as heck looking back.
It's definitely quirky but works!
this was absolutely perfect, I recently bought a semi-pro CNC machine and had all these questions. great content and thanks for sharing 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Awesome. Happy to help, reach out if we can answer any more questions
Very nice! Thanks for putting this out there. For some people with higher horsepower spindles, or just looking to improve efficiency, my ShopSabre IS408 w/ a 10hp spindle, we do 3/4" baltic birch plywood a lot, and we use 1/4" compression bits, single pass full depth, no tabs or onion skin, a bit over 300ipm and 16,000 rpm and get perfectly clean edges. We use 1/4" compression for just about everything due to it's ability to do smaller geometry compared to 3/8". Plus, for holding down small parts (around 10 in^2 surface area), full depth single pass, no onion or tabs is the way to go as the chips pack and keep them in place. Will never onion skin or tab again, but that's just our preference. Cheers!
Nice. Do your compression tools have any blackening on them?
@@pdxcnc you know they certainly will get blackening over time yes, I'm not 100% sure what I should expect for tool life with what I'm doing, but one 1/4" compression tool will last maybe 40-50 sheets before I feel the need to change it due to seeing some fuzzies start to appear on the part edges. Any thoughts? Always looking for input! :)
@garretehrick6137 yeah, I ask because I started out around those speeds and was blackening tools. I eventually found out I was feeding too slow and the blackening is too much heat in the cut. I’d push that 1/4” more like 380-390 IPM at 16k and you’ll see longer tool life
@@pdxcnc Thanks so much for the feedback! Full depth pass at those speeds for you? I have yet to break a bit at my feedrates, so I'm definitely keen to speed them up a bit.
@garretehrick6137 shouldn’t no. Ramp in, what brand is it?
Outstanding tips video, guys!
😊🤜
Great info and presentation. I am a hobbyist using the Shaper Origin, I'll try using the compression bit. Thanks.
Hey thanks. Just get that upcut buried on the first cut!
@@pdxcnc Thanks.
Great tips thanks
@Alastair_Freebird 🙌
Thanks
Just watched this, Great and straight to the point. Love it. We cut ply and tbh quality doesn't matter on the edges as what we cut is all one time use mould forms. But I have always wanted to get better cuts and ill try the climb direction trick tomorrow morning. Will do 2 cuts on the same piece with both directions and see. Nice one
Did a test, with a change in cutting direction and also did with leaving some radial stock then doing a second finishing pass. Most deffinatly. a huge improvment to the finish. Now need to stop entering on a plunge, what sort of ramp angle would you recommend? usually using a 6mm compression on 18mm plywood.
Anywhere from 15-25° works fine
is doing two seperate passes better than doing a "finishing pass" in the first operation? I often tell it to "finish at final depth" and it does just one finish. might just be a two ways to skin situation.
yeah two ways to do it. that works too.
Just switched to conventional and wow what a difference it makes!!
Love to hear it!
Where can I find some info on speeds and feeds for router cutters? For example, 6mm 2 flute down cut.
Hey each tool manufacturer should have Feeds and Speed recommendations. Ours is here shop.portlandcnc.com/pages/tooling#feeds
Quality info, thank you! Nudged me to use your bits for my maiden voyage with my SS Pro 408!
Oh awesome, happy to help if you have questions!
@@pdxcnc much appreciated (as are your contributions in the FB group). i'm coming from Shaper Origin so the idea of ploughing through 3/4 material in a single pass is blowing my mind at the moment. Seeing this, along with the right feeds and speeds, is helping me take that big step up and get off to a good start. I have it all wired up. Replumbing my compressed air system and Should be firing it up in the next few days as soon as I receive those bits!
I noticed you don't have a tool library yet for vectric (still ramping up on fusion) - is it best to just add the bits I ordered manually? Any guidance you have there would be great.
Absolutely. Glad to hear it, there's a lot to get going when you setup your first machine.
Libraries: Yeah we're still getting these going. Which tools are you looking for in Vectric, I can try to get those setup first?
Is that all Baltic birch plywood? Where do you source it?
Great video. I love using Fusion to design my ideas but I am struggling to figure out the toolpath/manufacturing aspect of fusion. Do you have or know any good ways to learn that? Thanks for any help
Great content! A lot of this is tacit knowledge in our CNC shop. Great to have a video to refer to!
Glad it was helpful!
Cool video. I didn't know to use conventional with compression cutters, I don't cut much plywood. @7:39 Why do you use a second 2d contour operation for your finish pass rather use roughing and finish passes within the first 2d contour operation?
Hey Kip, thanks. Good question. I guess didn't explain that but often it works better to rough fully and not break the vacuum seal then come back with the lighter cut cleanup finish pass with much lower tool pressure.
@@pdxcnc I gotcha. But couldn't you achieve the same outcome by checking "Finish Only at Final Depth", and unchecking "Rough Final", setting a finishing stepdown all under the "Multiple Depths section" and then using the "Stepover" under the "Passes" Dropdown. To compare it with using two operations The finishing stepdown setting is essentially the axial stock to leave that was set in the roughing operation and the stepover is the radial stock to leave set on the roughing operation. I use a finish pass on most of the parts I make and this is how I do it with one operation. But I am well aware that there are usually multiple strategies to get the same or similar outcomes.
@@kip1168 you absoultely can. I feel there's more control with doing two separate operations.
@@pdxcnc I can see that. Pros and cons to doing it different ways depending on other factors as well. Thanks for the cool video and discussion.
Thanks for the great info and hot plywood tips!
🥵 🪵 👋
@7:58 - the ONLY part of the video I slightly disagree with. I don´t think a bit has to scream (vibrate!). at least I try to avoid it if possible. with a 8mm compression cutter and the sheet firmly sucked down with vacuum that is usually possible for me. If I push a tool too much or use it too long after it got too dull (which is totally possible with a compression cutter :) I had contact corrosion issues in the past. Iso30 in a HSD here too. looking at the tools in the toolchanger I have to say they look totally fine. This makes me wonder if my pullstud/drawbar thingie in the spindle maybe does not provide enough clamping force and that´s the reason for me babying my machine :D
great video Justin!
I don't wholly disagree but a 1/4" (6.3mm) compression tool has always made that noise for us, no matter brand or age of my machine/spindle. I believe a combination of a lot of things but it's just not very rigid, maybe the tool holder/collet is sucking in and out as well, 18,000 RPM's can likely cause it to drop a little, ISO30 is no HSK.
@@pdxcnc true! If I ever have to replace my spindle I´d really consider HSK. Hope this is a few years in the future though :D
Great video thanks alot, what you think of the streight plung bits for cutting plysheet, thanks
I think it’ll likely tear up top or top and bottom veneers
I never climb cut. Is there ever a reason to use climb over conventional? Greta video. Thanks
Yeah totally. I prefer it when roughing. It’s easier on tools. Climb when doing aluminum
Not sure on the CNC aspect cause I'm new to it, but for milling door parts out of hardwood (what I've been doing for 10 years) climb cut drastically reduces tear out, especially on harder woods.
@michaelsorensen7567 yep
Excellent Video where do you get your 5mm dowel drill from as struggling to find one that doesnt have a massive flat spot. Thanks 👍
Hey the 5mm bradpoint we use? You mean the flat on the shank? If so, that’s how they all are
@@pdxcncgotta didn't know if there was one either no flay spot. What plunge do you typically run it at in plywood. Thanks
Are you manually arranging the parts then selecting the operations in Fusion? I use Fusion but haven't seen a benefit over VCarve for plywood.
No, there's a few options for nesting, one is called Arrange which is the easiest and what I used here. Would really depend on your use case, it's got considerable more control over every operation than VCarve. One caveat would be engraving, VCarve has Fusion beat there.
We have a few videos on Nesting in Fusion - ua-cam.com/play/PLlQPaN85gB1nRfkBJYDiRyHrcAOoAa--G.html
@@pdxcnc Awesome. Keep up the excellent work!
Thanks Clayton
I like this video thanks guys ❤
Good information. What is your experience of using compression vs. downcut or upcut bits in hardwood vs plywood. Also conventional vs climb cut.
I’d also be interested in tool path strategies to avoid tear out on hardwoods. I have found no good way to turn a 90 degree outside profile without some splintering. I’ve also played with Fusion’s preserve sharp corners technique which seems to help, but still doesn’t work perfectly.
👀👀👀
Did you go over number of flutes? I watched the whole video and might have zoned for a minute
Ohh, I’m not sure. All the tools shown are 2 flute
Straight flute is the best balance and more economical
Way slower though
Спасибо за объяснение
carbide tools are good for beginners. PCD tool are way to go for real production.
In plywood?
Good content 👀
Appreciate it
Typically the screaming that the bit does is from friction aka not having correct chipload and it usually want a higher ipm or a lower rpm
I find it’s from the path turning and a new force being applied and flex happening in the tool
@@pdxcnc that's just what it was for me and it fixes. It every time for me but maybe that is what it is for you but loved the vid lots of info!
@mcfixit66_yt77 nice, thanks
So if a spindle is less then 4 horse power you don’t think it can cut 3/4 mdf in one shot ?
Good question. What size is the spindle?
@@pdxcnc it’s a 2.2 kw spindle atc
@@TheUofastudentI have a Stepcraft Q.408 with a 2.2kW ATC spindle and cut Birch plywood in one pass. MDF is much softer, so give it a try! I do mostly 3/8 compression bit at RPM 18K. If spindle speed is high, keep the feed speed high too. Seams crazy at first, but after trying and seeing such a difference in efficiency and finish quality, I’m glad I did lol
That’s awesome !! Due to the electricity limitations I have I can only run either the cnc or the vacuum pumps so gonna try to hold the 4 by 8 sheet with 8 screws to a clamped on board then try to cut the 5/8 plywood board in one pass with out a vacuum pump table turned on ! Do you think that would work ?
@@TheUofastudent I don't have a vacuum table, so I always screw the 3/4 ply down to the spoil board. After learning how to cut full sheets in matter of minutes, I wish I had a vacuum table!
damn fusion 360 looks so much better than vcarvepro.. :0
China PLY
Most of it is.
Cheap plywood splitting is annoying. Mdf core would have been better for large slab doors. They stay flat forever vs plywood which will warp almost immediately in a garage.