Electrical Standards - WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Caravan Electrical Installations: Battery Installs, Fusing, Solar Panels & More.
The WHO, WHAT, WHY & HOW
In this video Dan explains key points to help you better understand the Standard: ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS - CONNECTABLE ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION AND SUPPLY ARRANGEMENTS, Part 2: Connectable electrical installations: AS/NZS3001.2:2022
In layman’s terms, WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW when doing an upgrade, alterations, or new install of your off-grid 12v power set-up in your caravan.
This video is all about:
👉Who Needs To Comply
👉When Do You Need To Comply
👉Why This Standard Is Important
👉When Don’t You Need To Comply
👉Where Can A Battery Be Installed
👉How A Battery Is To Be Installed
👉Plus more!
We're not here to break the internet with our amazing UA-cams 🤣
🏖️Instead, we aim to showcase how off-grid caravan, motorhome and 4WD electrical installations should be done the first time for off-grid hassle free camping!
Have questions? You know what to do👍
All our builds come standard with:
✅Installation by Qualified Electrician with over 20 years’ experience
✅External Anderson for portable solar panels
✅240v fully integrated (power at all GPO’s)
✅Thorough handover
✅Unlimited technical support
✅Lifetime warranty on workmanship
✅5 year warranty on electrical components.
✅Compliant to AS/NZS3001.2:2022
✅Electrical Safety Certificate
🔌NO HIDDEN COSTS🔌
⚡240V Electrical Works - Electrical Contractor’s Licence
Design & installation of 12v 240volt electrical systems are completed in house by our qualified electrician. We deliver a seamless solution, & 1 quote inclusive of 240 volt installation and hardwiring⚡
Perfect for those who need an experienced electrician to get it RIGHT the FIRST time.
📱Contact Us Today!
If you enjoy our content, please subscribe to our channel now and click that little bell to be notified when our videos go live! 🔔😁
Facebook / outechoffgrid
Instagram / outechoffgrid
Dan Blackford
✍️Qualified Electrician and Camping Enthusiast
✍️EC14408 | MRB9303
✅ Licensed Electrician | Qualified 12 volt and 240 Volt Electrician
Thank you, very informative and it will come in very useful in the rebuild of my caravan. I now understand what is involved in the solar and battery side of a caravan rebuild.
Glad you got some decent info out of it.
A gold star and a elephant stamp for you Dan, video is on mark for those of us whom dont quite understand it all, a credit to you professional approach to the return back you give to the industry.
Thank for the feedback Sam. Hope your well
And getting out there travelling 👍
Best explanation of the standard yet. This is so helpful. Thanks Dan, keep up the good work.
Thanks mate. Glad you found it useful. Feel free to share it around.
Hope you guys are well.
You explained the new regulations really well mate and glad to see an installer doing things to a high standard.
Most of the caravans I’ve worked on have horrendous wiring, either directly from the manufacturer or peoples terrible diy work.
Thanks mate. Yes there are some very average standards in this industry that’s for sure.
Excellent overview Dan, so much misinformation regarding AS/NZS3001:2.2022 on social media. Your simple lay explanation was just what is needed. Love your work 👍
Thanks Peter. Glad you enjoyed it.
Great people, great advice, exceptional workmanship
Than you @TyS-bs1pk
Thank you for this. I'm in the US, and while we have the NEC & AYBC, there's pretty much nothing for the RV industry. I am a bit perplexed by the external venting standards for Lithium batteries, is this just a blanket coverage so LA aren't somehow placed in the space? There's nothing about fire rating, so since Lithium doesn't vent (to my knowledge), it has to be something to do with LA.
There is a requirement to have the lithium ion battery enclosed and separated from the habitable space. This includes sealing the enclosure to prevent the possibility of a gassing/damaged battery gas entering the habitable space. If you don’t vent that enclosure then you create a pressurized vessel so venting is required to prevent the potential gas from entering the habitable space.
We agree that enclosing LFP batteries is a unique to Australia requirement.
Great Video and explanation of the revised Electrical Standards, thank you for taking the time to do this for the YT world. We took delivery of our New Caravan in October 2023 (so just prior to the new Elec Standards) we have chassis mounted Twin AGM's 100ah & twin 170watt Roof Top Panels, the budget didn't stretch to a Lithium setup that was another $15k (option) on top of the purchase price on an already stretched budget! If/when the AGM's are due for replacement in the future and we replace the 100ah AGM's to something larger say a 120-135ah AGM what compliance issues would we run into then? Unfortunately all anyone talks about these days is Lithium, but AGM/Lead Acid is still a real thing especially for those that are budget conscious! An explanation of the Standards where the Batteries are being replaced with the same chemistry though upgraded from 100ah AGM (generally budget Vans are fitted with one of these as a minimum) to 135+ ah AGM would be most appreciated, again for those that are budget conscious and most likely DIY Installers! Look forward to your reply, Cheers.
Hi thanks for the feedback.
We focus on LFP batteries as our systems just wouldn’t be suitable for lead acid style batteries. To get the grunt out of a lead acid battery bank of the nature that is required by the standard to run a decent sized inverter for extended periods of time, the battery bank would be weight prohibitive.
However, to answer your question, the location of the battery is the only relevant part of a lead acid battery installation. Ventilation and enclosures are required if they are installed inside the van and the standard is quite prescriptive about how that should be considered. If your battery is located on the chassis then this is all irrelevant as the location of enclosure is already external.
To increase from a 100ah to a 135ah there are no other changes required.
Cheers.
Great video Dan very informative cheers mate
Cheers Clemo👍
At last a little bit more transparency from a caravan system installer!. 🤙.
I see you use blade fuses for solar fusing. Can we shed more light on what's allowed and why. Some still use MC 4 Connector fusing up on the roof and is there clarification on wether the solar disconnect needs to be MCB Circuit breaker of a certain size or a 2 or 4 pole solar isolator switch is sufficient to the new standard?
Would be great to hear also some more info on RCD/RVD AND RCD DUO protection for inverter chargers such as Victron vs renogy (centre tapped )
for compliance for a sparky to comply and able to give a certification of compliance which I presume every customer should receive?
Thanks for the comment. Yes there is a lot of misinterpretation (or just general making things up) out there from lots of content creators in particular. Hopefully we kept it simple enough for the lay to understand an overall requirement. As with every standard there are a lot of intricacies that are tied into not only this standard but others which are referenced such as the Wiring Rules AS/NZS3000:2018.
The standard doesn’t specify fuse type. It specifies circuit protection and under what circumstances. It’s up to the electrician to determine the type that’s required. In this case the blade fuse is fine as the panels used have a VOC of 24V DC which is well within the specifications of the blade fuses used. There is also no specific requirement within the standard for isolator type. Again however, the installer should choose the most appropriate for the installation. If the PV voltage was higher, say 48v dc or above, then the types of circuit protection and isolation used in this particular installation would no longer be appropriate.
With regards to RCD/RVD protection, the standard is quite clear in its requirement. There is no requirement in the standard for an RVD (in either 3001 or 3000) however, if the installer deemed it appropriate then they would be able to install the type of RVD that allowed for an MEN connection as that is definitely specified in the standard.
To answer your last question, as we are electrical contractors, all of our installations come with an electrical safety certificate which is relevant for the installation that has take place. In our opinion, all installations of this nature should be also supplied with the same. However, as we know, this is not always the case as a lot of installations are undertaken by installers that are not licenced electricians/contractors.
Cheers.
Very well presented, I imagine there will be some minor misinterpretation by people with limited electrical knowledge and experience, however you will never be able to compensate for that in any video shorter than the time it takes to obtain a trade qualification. I would have liked to have seen a further explanation as to why having batteries in boxes attached to the chassis, or in a similar location, is not a good idea. I have a fair idea on this, but many people out there who would be the target audience for this presentation will not appreciate this topic. Many qualified A/C electricians do not appreciate the issues around this aspect, and some of those with their own UA-cam channel have proven their lack of understanding. Unfortunately there will be people who watch that and follow what has been shown elsewhere, therefore a further explanation would have been of significant benefit. Thanks for clarifying the recent amendments of the standards.
Hi and thanks for the comments. Yes I agree further information around specific items such as chassis mounted batteries would have been good to cover however, they aren’t specifically relating to the standard so we felt it was important to ‘stick to topic’ on that. We do cover reasons why it isn’t ideal to mount batteries outside on the chassis in other videos and we could in future do a tech talk on that topic also. Thanks for following along.
Looks like I need to go back over some earlier videos.
By far the clearest and mist concise video I've seen on the topic. One question I have is around alterations prior to the standard uplift as a DIY installer.
My understanding here is that it is only if I make further alterations that it'd all need to be brought up to spec. If this is correct, then any idea how this plays out for insurance (given it is an alteration from standard)? Also, is there any requirement around resale? Is change of ownership a trigger point for can compliance?
Biggest one for me will be isolating the batteries properly as from factory they're just in basic plastic battery boxes. Rest I am confident I could bring up to spec in an afternoon.
Hi thanks for the feedback and glad you got some information out of it.
Any alteration to your existing system will require the alteration to be brought up to the minimum level of the standard. However, as I mentioned in the video, it’s a good idea to bring the entire installation up to the minimum level of the standard as it just makes the whole installation more safe and maintainable.
Cheers.
Fantastic, clear explanation. Has helped me heaps. I have one question: regarding the sealed, vented box - is there a minimum requirement around what it should be made of? Wood, plastic, metal? Thanks heaps in advance!
@benexample2449 thanks for the comment. The standard requires coordination from your battery manufacturer of choice for all items such as material type and vent size. Your chosen manufacturer should be able to advise you on these items. Cheers.
Great video, thank you. A couple of questions, can you show how you have externally vented the battery compartment and also how have you sealed the internal side to still allow for battery access, ie maintenance or replacement? Cheers
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you took something out of it.
The vent is a serviceable pod filter which is located depending on the caravan.
The battery compartment can still be opened by a qualified person should they need to. It’s not a permanently sealed enclosure.
Yes but 10amp to van or car does not that's the trip point people miss
Great video. If my caravan had a lithium system installed before the new regulations came into effect, do I now need to upgrade to meet code?
Hi and thanks for watching and commenting. No if your system was installed before the recession came out then you don’t need to do anything as the standard is not retrospective.
Thanks.
RE monitoring.. Standards NSW regulator (Dept of Fair Trading) recently clarified monitoring clause to me. My take is that the monitor should not be a shunt monitor or app, but monitoring display / device which directly reads the data from the BMS. Interestingly this renders most of the batteries on the market non compliant, as there is no wired communication to the BMS, and according to the regulator an app does not cut it as the phone can be removed from the system / locked and that is useless in an emergency situation. Coms from fair trading copied below :
"The requirements of the monitoring device fall under the overall requirements of Clause 5.4.12.3 “Battery management safety system” because it is a sub-clause of this section. Clause 5.4.12.3.2 “Location” requires that the battery management safety system is no greater than 600mm from the battery. As the monitoring device is a part of this system it is also required to be located no more than 600mm from the battery. Therefore it must located within the vehicle/transportable structure and can not be via a smartphone app."
It’s been interesting to see how many different interpretations there have been on that particular clause of the standard. I have heard a similar interpretation before but the other person with the similar interpretation agreed that an app does meet their interpretation as the app directly reads the informations from the bms. Fundamentally I don’t have an issue with either interpretation. I just don’t agree with them In this case and they would have a hard time arguing their case if they were inspecting our installations as I would ask them to outline how our interpretation didn’t meet the requirements of the standard. They couldn’t.
The other issue I have with their interpretation is that the actual components used in a BMS to do tasks such as current measuring to establish the battery SOC are small and inaccurate when comparing to a specifically designed precision shunt built with high quality components.
Some manufacturers such as Victron when using their complete systems use LFP cells with a separate BMS and shunt but also have the ability to read the information directly from these units by monitor or app.
Cheers.
@@outechoffgrid I think there has been some major oversights from those writing the standard.. Perhaps this is one of them. It is interesting though when you have multiple batteries in parallel or series.. A shunt only tells you the grouped information, and you can't dig down into individual battery data in most cases. This is where wired communication such as CANBUS can be useful.
Hi great breakdown of the new standard. I have a query on the battery location. I have recently taken delivery of a new van. The builder chose a 300ah Baintech lithium on the basis that it is IP67 rated and would be suitable to chassis mount. I'm now thinking it was only to avoid complying with an internal install. Just wondering your thoughts and reason for recommending against external mount. Thanks
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you got something out of it.
The manufacturer may have chosen to mount to the chassis to avoid the need to enclose and vent the battery if they had installed it internally. However, it doesn’t mean they aren’t subject to the other requirements of the standard.
Generally we find that although the battery may be ip67 it is still subject to dust and water as well as significant rock strike outside on the chassis. It can also be quite a distance away from the chargers and inverters if mounted that far away so the requirement for significantly larger cables to mitigate voltage drop is increased.
Hi Dan,
Just watched your video about the AS3001 standards...just checking if the new solar/battery system you intalled on our bushtracker last May 2023 is solar protected & compliant?
And the new 400AH lithium battery upgrade you did is in a box with a strap around it in our cargo hold....is this battery setup compliant & do we now have to externally vent the battery box?
Regards, Angela
Hi Angela thanks for watching.
Your solar is 100% compliant to the standard. We have always isolated and fused our solar installations, even before it was a requirement of this particular standard. We have also always installed the correct cable and mechanical protection on our installations.
Your battery is installed prior to November 18 2023 so it doesn’t have a vent installed.
Hi we have an external connection that goes through panel / safety switch, to a power board. Nothing is hard wired to the external power. I presume this makes no difference under the regulations, and if we made changes everything would need to comply?
When I say power board, it's a properly wired in gpo.
So if I understand what you are saying correctly any installations or modifications carried out after the 18.11.23 have to comply and installations and modifications done before this date don't.
Is my understanding correct?.
Thanks for the reply. That’s correct.
by putting batteries in a box what about the heat of the batteries, is that going to be a problem?
Hi and thanks for commenting.
Quality LiFePO4 batteries don’t get hot. If the battery is getting hot enough to be a concern then either there is an issue with the battery or the installation needs attending to. Enclosing the battery is a safety measure that should the cells inside the battery vent, the gas doesn’t enter the habitable space.
Cheers.
No big deal really, double insulated cable in a conduit, fuse your solar more than one string, battery must pretend to be outside!! 😂 with a vent although lifepo4 doesn't vent and hopefully no water will get in. Sounds like this one is a hangover from the old lead acid or gel and not a decision based on the chemistry.
Always a worry when they try to mod existing standards to new tech! Like when they wanted every solar string to have an isolator on the roof! How many house fires did it take for them to realise that was not a good Idea!!
The standard generally has been well written and has captured some important aspects of installation practices that have been absent from the caravanning industry. Some of the electrical installations we see in these things are actually scary. Mixed voltages with cables with ELV insulation installed into areas with 240v open terminals. PV cables run in single insulated cable with no mechanical protection. Christmas trees of fuses mounted to the ropes of batteries. The list goes on.
I generally agree with your sentiment around LFP. It took me a while to get my head around it. But its intent is to protect owners from the lower quality batteries and obvious issues relating to the other LIon chemistries.
However, I still maintain that the regs should be improved around battery manufacturing standards rather than the installer. It’s still only really regulates those of us with electrical licenses. The diyers and auto sparks of this industry still haven’t grasped the full extent of this standard and what it’s trying to achieve.
@@outechoffgrid again if they understood the chemistry it would be a lot safer to have a standard that batteries have to be LFP only! That would have been the smarter move. Because if people use Lithium NMC or Li-poly it wouldn't matter if the batteries are actually outside the RV or Van or what fancy monitor system you use the thermo runaway will consume everything!