Growing up in a Christian home, being told I could go to hell for thought crime, and never feeling the "presence" of god, I was convinced I was evil. No kid should have to deal with that. No adult should have to be poisoned with that. I was never assaulted. I was never physically abused. But I will always consider what I went through as child abuse. You don't need to touch a child to harm them. You don't need to physically hurt them to ruin their mind for decades.
When something good happens, it’s God fault. When something bad happens, it’s your fault. Or The Devil’s. Convenient. Keyser Soze almost got it right. The greatest trick God ever pulled was convincing the world that The Devil exists.
As a former Christian, it flabbergasts me how much work believers put into manufacturing a sense of God's presence, without ever noticing how much work they're putting into manufacturing a sense of God's presence.
What I mostly remember is the things were forbidden that could generate a similar feeling. Yoga and dance, secular or classical music. Just to be save we only feel those things as a precense of god...
Metalheads: You don't listen to *insert metal genre here* so you're not a real metalhead!!!!!!! It sounds familiar for some reason. Do those noble, pure-harted christians really want to associate with us heathens?
@@Andrea-cq6eg The real question is. Do we noble, pure hearted meatheads want to be associated with those heathen Christians. I answer a profound, HELL NO! -Ex-Christian
That line was on repeat for me all throughout the video. Along with "Or maybe because he doesn't exist?" every time they tried to blame the person starting to doubt.
one of the most poisonous aspects of growing up christian is the pathological fear of being too comfortable or happy. the sheer amount of times as a kid i had the stray thought that my enjoyment of video games, or talking to my non christian friends or even just playing outside would separate me from god and i was convinced it was him giving me a message. "them or me". the amount of times i guilted and scared myself into being needlessly unhappy because "suffering produces the best in us spiritually". it felt so gross. ive suffered enough thanks, ill take my joy now.
Yep, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. It makes me so angry now that I was forced to spend so much precious time thinking like that instead of just being allowed to enjoy life!
They always told me that "God speaks as quiet as a mouse", so your mind needs to be quiet to hear him. OK God, how do you expect me to have a calm mind when ADHD exists!?
What do you mean?! ADHD doesn’t exist, you’re just not trying hard enough! Just pay attention and the answers will just come to you! This is a joke btw
@@KlutzerBomb Maybe the real answer is the same way the Philosopher's Stone works, in the alchemical sense. The time when you attain that level of closeness to God, is when you least needing His help.
I always found Christian "logic" baffling...Why does an all powerful being need to be so obtuse and vague? To the point it's indiscernable whether he exists or not. Funny how the "presence of God" and the non-existence of a god, seem to be the same thing, huh?
Definitly not a good idea. I can’t help thinking that Anton Lavey on his deathbed sees,feels the devil jump up and bite his ass. “Oh my. Oh God, what have I done.?”
omnibenevolent, omniscient being beyond time can't cram a minute in everyone's day to help them.. how lovely. you know someone loves you when they ignore you and make you feel like you did something wrong.
I’ve never ever felt gods presence. I grew up feeling like something was wrong with me and then after being SA’ed by my stepfather I felt it was because I wasn’t pure enough. I’m so glad I’m an atheist now! ❤
Zero things wrong with you (even being traumatized isn't wrong. Same bro haha), and yes. It is so good to release the shame. What is real is real. To sense it on a neurological level is to remember we can create our own fun and hurtful things do not have control over us.
I love how that in this video they're talking about how busyness is not close to godliness and then in other videos we watch them complain about people being too lazy. make up your mind
Ah yes, the 'sin' of 'sloth'. You're supposed to work for me 6 days a week, and on the 7th day you 'rest'... 'rest' by working to travel to my location and give me the money you made on the previous 6 days.
I could never really "feel God," but as a Christian I lied to everyone (including myself) about it until I couldn't anymore. I'll never forget something one of my youth counselors said to me after I started deconstructing. She said "Maybe you expect too much from God." This was shocking to me, after all the assurances from the pulpit about "ask and ye shall receive" and the unlimited power of the Almighty.
Sounds like a rationalization she came up with to silence her own doubts. Treating a deity like a disappointing parent. It's like something you'd say to a kid disappointed Santa Claus didn't bring them a new bike.
@@wilberwhateley7569 "omnimax" 😆 Makes me think of "looks-maxxing": "Check it out, God be over here "almighty-maxxing" so he can pull more followers." (you pick up some of the terminology when you lurk in RP/PUA groups, lol).
As someone who has suffered severe major depressive disorder since I was quite young (grade school if not before), I remember trying every single thing anyone recommended to feel closer to god. I remember crying and screaming and begging to stop feeling the way I did, to make the bullying stop, to get the help I needed, to stop wanting to unalive myself, and being met with ......... nothing. Just deafening silence. And then being told it must be my fault.
I'm sorry you experienced this instead of getting evidence based medical assistance. Not that medicine has a magic pill, but at least it doesn't claim to. When atheists/agnostics describe religion as a harmless belief and question my fairly vehement anti-theism, well, stories like this are why. Victim blaming is always ugly. Victim blaming mental illness is particularly atrocious.
My sister said religion is harmful. I did not believe her. She was a "wild" reader. I thought she was just being "funny" and just would like to "show off" every time she narrated origins, tenets, time frame,.... words I haven't heard of. For so many years, I did not believe her. When I started watching channels like this (very recent), it is only then I realized we're in deep deep trouble. I am very sorry to hear what you went through and for all that endured the same, I am sorry. I am guilty of good things I could have done but did not do. (Voltaire)
Or God did talk to you but you don't know it yet or God will work with you but not now or like the magic 8 ball,Outlook not so good. There's always a reason why you hear nothing but it's still there somehow. Anyone who cares if their beliefs are true and honestly looks would be agnostic. I don't see how a God could be but I am open to believe if the evidence is there.
Thanks for covering this topic! Having OCD, I would became literally obsessed with finding or feeling God. And then feeling like i was an awful sinner if I didnt. A very unhealthy cycle im thankful to be out of!
Scrupulosity/ moral OCD sucks . I remember when I went to church. Whenever they asked the kids who haven't prayed for forgiveness yet if they wanted to pray, I would always go up because I never felt "saved" enough. I also became heavily self sacrificing because I felt like I had to make up for the lack of a real savior/ Messiah. I only got over it in the last 3 years.
@@Whoohoonutty2020 I hear you, I experienced something very similar. Constant cycle of never feeling enough. The irony of these pastors claiming we need to slow down... 2020 forced me to slow down and gave me an acceptable reason to stop going to church. That's when I actually had time to process my feelings of guilt, lean into deconstruction, and then eventually discover my OCD diagnosis! I hope you're finding a healthier mental place ♥️
me too jfdjjdkd. im in therapy for it right now, and i hope everyone else who deals with this stuff gets the help that they need! ive always been obsessed with the idea of forgiveness, like every small thing was a sin and i had to do a million things to make sure i was saved. i was also told i was gifted to feel god's presence, and when i felt nothing i started praying all the time and begging for him to let me feel him because i was so scared id end up in hell. im a minor, and ive only started deconstruction a few months ago, so my ocd does get bad sometimes even when i know it doesnt make sense. for everyone else, i hope you know you arent alone and that recovery is a real possibility, no matter how consuming these thoughts may be.
@@superlur in terms of religious fear I'm definitely gotten better. I was at least lucky enough to not be forced to go church and I've been atheist for at least 6 1/2 years. And while I was diagnosed with OCD at a very young age it seemed like no one around me knew what it was. I only fully realized how bad things were for me mentally in 2020. Thanks for sharing your experience though. I hope that things are going better for you and others with OCD as well.
I remember those days as a Christian: trying to go somewhere beautiful, peaceful, and close to nature, like a park or a beach, in order to "spend time with God" and hopefully restore my soul with his presence. It never really worked, but I kept doing it. Turns out I just liked being close to nature. 😁
Nature may not love us, but at least its _real_ and it's clearly got no _problem_ with us either. We're part of it, and we can experience it much more tangibly than God. God, is just constant "Do better, you're not good enough to be with me yet/right now, etc." Nature relationship vs. God relationship? Nature wins in my book.
I had a severe mental breakdown when I was younger because I misattributed OCD like symptoms to god telling me what to do. I was "told" to do menial things like washing my hands after touching basically anything, and avoiding "secular" sources of entertainment. It destroyed the skin of my hands and my mental state for months. I'm so glad to have resolved that for myself, and found some peace in a little bit of selfishness.
Can you imagine a child trying to connect with their father, and the father just giving them the silent treatment? Making them think they’re “not doing the right thing” to get his attention. This mentality is completely abusive and fucked up!
sad. And even then, if the child really REALLY wanted to, he/she probably could find some evidence for his/her father's existence. in many ways, a vanishing father is way better than this g0d... thing / stuff / myth / rant. (I had to pile up some words because I really don't know what my fellow humans mean by the word "god")
Is your father deceased? If such is the case, he's most likely wallowing in the putrescent abominably polluted waters of Perdition. (Or not. I'm just being facetiously dramatic here.) I would have to say that you've ultimately won. And I will say too: Peace to You.
It was always so scary watching people get deep into worship, and I never could. I spent years thinking it was some flaw in me. It finally made sense when I went to a secular concert for the first time. Turns out I just don’t get moved by music the way a lot of people do. I just kinda stand there. But it’s really, if someone is falling away and *begs* God to show up, if he doesn’t, it’s not their fault. If my child is crying for me, I will do anything I can for them to know I am there for them. I’m not going to expect them to go through hoops.
This exactly. Always felt like I was watching a horror movie. I couldn’t participate in it - I could only watch these people screaming and crying and babbling. Never felt anything except unease.
I still believe, but I never could do it either. I loved the music, I could sing along, but I never felt the same arm-lifting passion that others felt…
Honestly, listening to some of those pastors talking about how you 'feel' god practically flirts with astrology with how flimsy it comes across to a non-believer. "How do you know your god exists?" "I feel something! Only sometimes though! A vague feeling that I'm calling God!" Said with a kind of breathless excitement as if that's supposed to be even the slightest fraction of a bit convincing to anyone else.
The thing about these religions is that they’ve already primed you to interpret everything negative as YOUR fault, so when you come to them with these questions and say “Am I doing something wrong?” their answer is always going to be, “of course you did.” So glad to be out of that mess.
I was vulnerable to religion simply because I already felt like something was wrong with me. Depression, neurodivergence, being queer... I was ripe for it.
I was working on my degree in clinical psychology around the same time my sister was diagnosed with a severe mental illness from religious trauma. Every time I watch one of your videos I think about how these preachers are creating toxic environments for their groups and the effects they are having. This video feels like the best example of psychological abuse. Gaslighting at its finest. Thanks for compiling these to help me understand how these religious leaders work.
I kinda wish they'd stick RTS in the DSM, shamefully too many people are against even labelling it as 'religious trauma' because it draws attention to how religions are inherently harmful in so many ways. I have another family member who was raised catholic I recently found out is suffering due to religious trauma and induced acute depression, who's trying to reach out and convince people that something's wrong with them but the religious people around them are just telling her she's lazy and a bad mother. Which seems to have stemmed from their children being autistic, the church blaming her kids being autistic on her being a bad parent, and everyone else treating her like everything's fine when she's seriously struggling and ignoring her when she seeks help. It's reached a point where everyone I counsel's problems basically either stem from capitalism or religion.
@@theharlequin3088 that is a sad story. My sister’s son is also autistic and requires a lot of care. It’s difficult to care for children with special needs and our world isn’t equipped to help those people or their caregivers. Evangelical communities DO perpetuate, capitalism and individualism as righteousness and in hand they are supported by corporate donations and political power. It’s the Neoliberal Triad that controls the minds, hearts and wallets of many Americans. I’m a black trans woman with mental illness peppered through my communities. I see my entire family and community collapse on themselves as a result of in congruent ideology like the Religion Right and the Nation of Islam. It hurts.
@@MxFourhornes It's incredibly difficult, especially when we can't just tell people 'you're mental cause your religious cult fucked you up.' ...and you're not even allowed to mention the subject because those religions have made it illegal, meanwhile those same religions are allowed to do horrendously inhumane things and operate genocidal campaigns against people with impunity. I'm also trans, and I have copy/pasta I've just started spamming on every vid mentioning religion and lgbtqia+ you might like just to try and combat some of the bigotry and exploitation. "For context, right-wing cults and organizations have spent the past few decades paying for propaganda to portray lgbt people as a religious/political ideology. The members of their cult and those who fall for their indoctrination genuinely believe that trans people don't exist... that gay people don't exist, that lesbians don't exist, that bisexual people don't exist, that intersex people don't exist, that asexual people don't exist... etc. Despite extensive and conclusive evidence that all these people are real, and do in fact exist... and are simply a natural part of the broad spectrum of humanity. It's a bit like the flat-earth cult convincing people that the earth isn't round, because it keeps them engaging with and giving money to the flat-earth cult. In cult psychology, you do this to control the perception and exposure of those you wish to exploit. For example, pretend you run one of those flat-earth clubs with membership fees and merchandise... you can't disprove all the concrete evidence that the earth is round, and if your cult members learn about our solar system they'll realize you're a fraud and stop giving you money. So you don't show them the evidence and disprove it, you tell them that the evidence is made up so that you can claim you don't have to disprove it... the earth isn't 'round', that's just a made up ideology by big globe tech or a fake religion made up by the big globe illuminati. Now if that cult members sees a working model of the solar system, they won't think - 'Oh cool what's that? How does our planet work?' like a normal person and learn about it... that cult member will see the solar system and subconsciously dismiss it and think 'Oh I know everything about that! That's a fake made up scam ideology!' ...and learn nothing about it. Controlling a person's perception and experience in this manner keeps them ignorant and easy to manipulate... and keeps them coming back and buying your flat-earth cult T-shirts. The same principles are used by bigoted political and religious cults against lgbt+ people to dehumanize and invalidate their existence. Such organizations can't disprove the overwhelming substantive evidence for trans peoples' existence, nor do they wish to allow their members to learn anything about trans people. Instead they falsely advertise and misrepresent it as 'trans ideology' and 'trans activism' or 'woke ideology' and 'gender ideology'... which just like the flat-earth cult, keeps their victims ignorant and easy to manipulate. So now like you see here, they don't say 'Oh? What's a trans person?' nor learn anything about reality... ...they say 'I know everything about this! Why are you forcing this made up religious ideology on me!?'. Because they are under the delusion that trans people aren't real, and that everyone merely 'believes' they're real... as if we're believing the tooth-fairy is real and activists are forcing them to put their teeth under our pillows for us. Once you've convinced all these victims to believe in such a delusion, that the evil tooth fairy activists are coming for their teeth and their wife's teeth and their children's teeth... you can then tell them you're 'anti tooth-fairy', you're 'anti-fairy', you're against the 'woke teeth agender'... ...and you need good honest noble heroes to give you money and vote for you so that you can finally stop the evil globalist tooth-fairy 1984 apocalypse that's definitely happening right now! This is why such hysteria exists around these subjects. The same type of propaganda manipulation was used against women in the 1930's. Then against working class people in the 1950's. Then against black people in the 1960's-70's. Then against gay people in the 1980's. Then against atheists. Then against muslims. Then against bisexuals. Then against young generations. Then against migrants. Etc. etc. etc... I know this is a fairly long read, but if you understand it please copy and share it so that more people are aware and have a better chance of protecting themselves from exploitation. Knowing how you can be exploited is part of how you protect yourself from being exploited."
"I don't feel God's presence anymore. According to pastors it's because I somehow moved away" Few thousand years ago: "there was thunder. The gods are angry! We must've moved away from the gods somehow!"
I remember when I lost my faith completely over the pandemic, first time I went back to church all the fuzzy spiritual feelings were gone and I realized all the music and ritual was just making my brain feel things for no logical reason.
Re: supernatural/spiritual meaning- when i was 17, my 20 year old brother- who was by far the most important person in my life- was killed by a drunk driver. A few days after the funeral a myself and a group of friends got together for an impromptu wake of sorts. One of the things my brother really loved was fireworks...as the night went on we all started to notice a vast number of 'shooting stars'. we were outside of the city so there was no light interference. As we sat there watching this incredible display we all felt that my brother was putting on a fireworks show for us. For years I believed this and would tell this story of my "spiritual event." Until I told someone familiar with the Perseid meteor shower- that happens every year that time 🙃. At first it bummed me out, then i realized that i can watch it every year and have done so for 38 years.
Even when I was a little kid and we were going to church regularly, I never felt any real connection to God. It just didn't make much sense to believe in something you can't touch, see, or hear.
Same here - I always found church to be a boring experience that I was obligated to go through on Sundays and Wednesdays. I always preferred a good film or book over a church service.
I clung, yes clung, to my Baptist beliefs so hard that I rejected non-Christian social groups and was therefore incredibly lonely and left to feel like an “other,” I volunteered at Awana even though I wasn’t permitted to interact with the children because I travel for work and did not provide suitable stability for them (but I think they were just appalled that a married woman didn’t stay home for her husband), and the icing on the cake was that I fasted for 20 days in prayer just so god would reveal to me why I was so lost in his community. The only positive thing that came of all that was that my eyes were opened to the incredible isolation, misogyny, and bullshit that is the so called “Loving people of God.”
"Please Lord, I beg of you, at your Feet, show me you are real, in a way that I will understand" The same Prayer I prayed for years, before my De-conversion
Only the weak-minded abandon belief for that reason. The world and all of its magnificence is proof. You think that was formed by accident? Science has never suggested life created itself.
Wow, this is sobering. As a life long atheist, I never had these thoughts and since I don't watch apologetics outwardly aimed at christians, I never saw these "arguments". It's utterly appalling. "It's your fault! No, the omnipotent dude up in the sky isn't the one bad at communication, it's YOU!" Seriously, how can anyone in their right mind listen to these snake oil salesmen and think they're the ones you should listen to in the first place?
I've been an atheist for 37 years, and never experienced the same fervor that some have...and for some reason, I'm drawn to this channel. I'm curious, as an atheist, why are you interested in this? Sometimes when I listen I feel like I'm invading something, like I'm not supposed to be here. I'm just curious what you get out of it.
Usually it's conditioning from a young age. If not that, churches often seek out vulnerable people who are struggling in one way or another and just need community and support.
@@JenniferDesrosiers-r3p For me at least, it's important that I think through any beliefs or, well, lack of belief I have. Many people are atheists simply because they haven't gone to church, and religious people of all kinds take advantage of that because many struggle to articulate their position of why they don't need or want a god
Well said. So, you actively make a decision to be an atheist, even though you've never been religious. Do you think atheists who've never been exposed to church would become religious if given a chance? All atheists know have been religious at some point, and their move away from religion has been a long, slow process, but that may be because of my age. It was just normal to go to church as a kid, and step away as an adult. Most of my family and friends have the same story. I'm struggling with trying to understand my absolute hatred of God, religion, and the people that believe. I've got a history of abuse, and was told that God didn't do anything about it because I wouldn't have found the strength within myself if he did it for me. Lol, what a crock. But thank you for your answer.
@@JenniferDesrosiers-r3p "So, you actively make a decision to be an atheist" No, I have not. I am an atheist because being a theist is impossible for me. I quite literally can not believe in a god. You can't choose your convictions after all. That's also why I would never accuse a theist of not actually believing in their deities, no matter how often they claim the reverse for me. It's just intellectually lazy. "Do you think atheists who've never been exposed to church would become religious if given a chance?" Some of them, sure. People get convinced of something of a plethora of reasons. But the vast majority of theists are theists because their parents indoctrinated them into their belief structure. I myself grew up in a religion-free household and only read the bible at 19yo. I just laughed at the book and in my juvenile stupor thought that everyone who believes in it is simply stupid. Now I understand that intelligence has a correlative effect, but doesn't fully explain it. You could be one of the most intelligent people in the world and still believe in it. That's how powerful childhood indoctrination is. And that's also why I admire people who went through that and still managed to leave their cults.
Christianity’s doctrine of waiting for God to act on his own time as well as always believing no matter what brought me away from the religion in the first place. It never helped me when I prayed to be free of my abusers or to have relief from my depression and OCD. After leaving, I’ve found that relying on myself above all else is what brings me my real strength.
I love it when your videos show up. I am convinced that religious belief is a mild form of of narcissism. The more fervent the belief, the higher the narcissism.
Considering the Bible is essentially a Choose-Your-Own-Beliefs book where people cherry-pick the passages that validate how they are, in some form or another, BETTER than other people... yeah... I'd say more than 'mild'.
i cant disagree, but emotionally, i dont want to thik of myself as a recovered or recovering narcissist yet you make too much sense new existential crisis unlocked
Narcissism is an aspect of personality, in popular culture it's used to describe a disorder or people who are full of themselves. It only becomes an issue when it becomes things like NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), with people developing over-exaggerated or delusional estimations of their ability, often more to their own detriment than others. For example, I lived with a friend who has NPD who believed they were an amazing driver, but never bothered to practice because of that belief and never managed to get a license cause they believed they were already great and amazing. Another NPD friend thought they could leap over a 7ft wall and dislocated their kneecap in the attempt. Psychologically what we might call narcissism is more an aspect of self-esteem or self-confidence, which is a normal part of a healthy working brain. It's the part of your psyche that tells you 'yes you are capable of boiling an egg, you don't need to be anxious and second-guess yourself'. What we might call 'narcissistic' is believing you can boil an egg even if you've never done it before and know nothing about cooking. So like most things, there's a spectrum that everyone usually falls somewhere on... and you can reach the extremes. I would tend to agree about how religion influences narcissistic tendencies like this though, even just from the 'god is with me so I can do anything!' delusional attitude it instils in people... and it can make people more fervently narcissistic. So I get what you're saying, just thought I'd add more info cause I like to ramble about psychology.
It doesn’t help that even though their savior acts like he preaches love and acceptance, he also is the one that introduces the concept of hell into the New Testament, and he makes it pretty clear that if you’re not with him, you’re against him. This really gives people the fall superiority that they are somehow better than others or deserving more than others, as well as that false entitlement to push it on folks. Leave it to religion to simultaneously give people a victim and superiority complex at the same time.
13:45 after I left the Mormon church, I brought up with my believing mother how I get the same feeling of “the spirit” that I did at church at secular music. She then reveals to me that she believes that if you get that feeling then the artist must have divine inspiration!
@@KlutzerBomb hey, if there _is_ a god or gods, and they _do_ sometimes inspire music and musicians, Trent Reznor is clearly near the top of the list of likely recipients of that beneficence.
the Christian athlete Eric Liddell, famous quote on the lines of "God made me to run fast, and when I run I feel his pleasure". which I still find kinda sweet tbh
I guess by her logic pretty sunsets and beaches have divine inspiration too. Lol. There are many ways of evoking what they think of as spiritual feelings, but arr really just happiness and calm. Ex mo also. Congratulations for leaving.
I remember my grandma and aunt professing their genuine love for God and I remember wanting so badly to feel what they felt and never being able to. I gave up at 13. Been agnostic ever since.
This one is true. I have schizophrenia. I have a particular tendency for having religious delusions I assume because of my religious upbringing. I absolutely felt 'god'. The voices and what I saw were god to me. Even when it become harmful some in the church directly enabled/encouraged my delusion and said what I was experiencing was real. My experience with religion was extremely damaging in getting a diagnosis and help and eventually learning what my entire reality was based around was..not real. Naturally after I was doing better and knew I had schizophrenia the same people who told me the voices were really god and I was very blessed were much less accepting. T hey didn't care that I was doing better for myself, they disliked me now because I had lost my faith. It didn't matter that what I had been told was a strong connection to god was a mental condition. If anything I imagine the average person's discrimination against schizophrenic people since they see us as dangerous played a part as well, though I can't say that for sure. the psychological conditioning of many of the churches showed in the video is so especially dangerous to people who struggle with psychotic disorders because many of us such as me can be such easy victims of it.
I was convinced that I could feel the Holy Spirit's presence in my just by thinking of it. My religious friends took it to mean that God was with me. Years later, I discovered that a small percentage of the population can give themselves goosebumps and the warm fuzzies on command. I felt so duped and stupid.
It's astonishing reading so many of these comments and seeing the common thread of psychological abuse that so many of us grew up with. It's incredibly sad that we're united in this way, because our childhoods, our innocence, our potential for who knows what great things were ripped away from us. 💔 I hope that we can all find ways to heal as much damage as possible, and be a source of strength for other people who have suffered/are still suffering similarly. 💜 I think that our Younger Selves would be proud of us for overcoming our traumatic experiences, and happy to know that we finally found freedom💜
When the guy was going "If you *didn't* feel him... Whose fault is it?" I actually paused the video, swallowed my supper and cussed him out. Gods that's *gross* of him to put on people! And man, footsteps in the sand is so condescending. All I'd ever asked for was for the god I worshiped to get the school admin to just do their job and send someone down to see the bullying I'd told them was happening. No answer, until I was pushed into the darkest despair... And only survived that because of a video game announcement I was waiting for. Things only got done well over a year later, not because god did anything. Because my dad had enough and basically told the admins "Do your job or I'll do it for you". I used to "feel god". And it was nothing but raging disappointment that "uugh, this loser sinner again who can't keep his thoughts under control? Begging for forgiveness AGAIN?". When I finally realized it was just my anxiety being cranked up to 11, and not really "god", it was such a relief. It took years to unlearn that senseless anxiety and I'm so much better for it. That whole rant starting at 37:40 rings SOOOO true for me.
Even as a Christian, that pastor saying "who's fault is it??" feels so condescending and wrong. We're taught not to be quick to judge but quick to be empathetic. At least for me, God reveals himself to people at separate times. Not everyone is going to be moved by a worship service that feels like a concert, which is what a lot of churches have turned in to (including my own, but i love it).
So when I was a Christian, I had the same thing. Why can't I feel/see/hear God? "Maybe you just aren't worthy of his attention." "You aren't listening hard enough. God is always speaking to us. You just aren't listening." "Maybe you are just too full of Sin." This was all changed when I was at the end of my Christian journey, and I asked someone who wasn't a Christian. I asked a Jewish Rabbi. Instead of making it my fault, he instead gave me the Jewish response, which was, "Well, sometimes God just doesn't feel like he has to answer. He's kind of a schmuck like that sometimes. Why do you think Moses was lost in the desert for forty years? He asked where he was supposed to be going, and God just decided to not answer for a while. And they didn't have any gas stations where he could buy a map." That made more sense to me than anything else. He also told me that if you hear God too often, then it's probably time for psychotherapy.
"How can you help my affliction If you're the sickness and not the cure Too long I've faked this addiction Another sacrifice to make us pure ... I know I can never prove this illusion You aren't the one that I thought you were So I learn to embrace this delusion The line that separates us starts to blur You tear me down and then you pick me up You take it all but still it's not enough You try to tell me you can heal me But I'm still bleeding and you will be the death of me And you will be the death of me I won't forget, I cannot forget this And you will be the death of me" -Death Of Me by Red I love that some Christian rock helped me during deconstruction.
I absolutely _ached_ to feel God. then I learned to let humans in. I learned to allow healthy touch and open communication. that's what I really needed: human connection.
Wow!!!! This is really INSIGHTFUL!!!!! *(I'm serious. I know this sounds like common sense but it's not always.... especially if we are still deep in it.)* Thank you!!❤
I actually realised I was an atheist when I was 7 and I had this realisation that "oh crap, I'm supposed to have God COMMUNICATE with me?". I come from a country where most people belong to the church, but most people don't actually focus on religion. Like, if you go to church on the weekends, you're considered weird. But it was still a really difficult and scary realisation, because my family was in the church, my school had church visits, and I didn't know if anyone else felt this way. It also led to some early life existential crises, but I also attribute that somewhat to my very unhealthy growing up. I notice I never feel like that when I'm happy. And I was a miserable child.
Also this video reminds me of this story of a woman who believed in God wholeheartedly because she "felt him" during church music performances. Then she went to a Taylor Swift concert and realised she just liked live music.
Man, I wish I could send this to my mother, and that she would actually watch it. You lay out so clearly why this belief-system is just a way to control people and victim blame them when they inevitably feel that it doesn't live up to its promises.
I got a pink invisible, levitating, cold blooded intangible dragon in my house. Why should you believe me ? Because if not the dragon will eat your food in secret. And this is how i started pink draconianism (literally), a new religion
Still more credible than most other religions! And as long as your dragon doesn't unalive entire populations, more moral than most other religions as well.
What I want to know is if I don't follow pink draconianism and my food still goes missing... does that mean I'm the one eating it? If so do I gain the weight? Cause if I don't fuck yea, that's superpower level
One of the important things to realize about religions and churches is that they are still cult organizations. Organizations that for the past thousand years have perfected their sociopathy down to an artform of manipulation. And the psychological damage this manipulation does to a person can be incredibly challenging to recover from. I have a great deal of respect and empathy for all of you who've managed to survive through it all. And for those with the stamina, I highly recommend learning about cults and cult psychology to be able to better protect yourselves and others from such inhumane exploitation.
I'm pretty sure the takeaway from the speech at 12:00 wasn't supposed to be that "god is really underwhelming and easily replaced by cute girls, UA-cam videos, and bubble baths", but that's what I got from it. ...cute girls, UA-cam videos, and bubble baths in such a vibe tho.
Why don't they just come out and say "we want a community primarily composed of credulous, neurotypical people with money and time to spare for our benefit."?
the only time i ever really *felt* any presence was at those summer camps with the bands playing those big emotional songs that we held hands up and sang along to. The Great I Am was always my favorite. and i was *sure* without a doubt that the power of the Lord was flowing through me. that is until a couple years later at an EDM fest with porter robinson and realized that's just the power of good music i was feeling.
I know you will probably never see this comment, but I just want to say thank you for these deconstructing videos. I struggled with not feeling god's presence for years, and I've finally realized that it wasn't my fault that I didn't feel him, and that if he actually exists, he clearly doesn't want a relationship with me. Cause I tried for years, I prayed, I read my Bible, I accepted him into my heart so so SO many times, and he never responded. Your videos have helped me a lot with realizing that my feelings were valid and that I'm not alone, so thank you.
This hits home so hard because I grew up thinking there was something wrong me and that I was going to hell because I couldn't speak in tongues like everyone else around me. Thanks for doing what you do.
The emotional manipulation and gaslighting that goes into being a christian is both disgusting and exhausting. I never had to deal with having my entire world view come crashing down and having to come to terms with having lived a lie for most of my life so all I can offer you and others like you my sympathies.
Funny you mention "moist robots" cuz I was just watching the scene in Scavengers Reign where the little alien robot exists for 2 minutes just to pollinate a flower. It's life was so short but meaningful
It's always been a very hard sell to convince me that I *need* to believe in something that we can't observe or verify the same way we can with nearly every other thing in the universe Sometimes, apologists will use analogies that fall flat like "you can't see the wind," "you can't measure love," or "you've never seen a billion dollars." While these might seem persuasive, you're comparing apples to oranges and things like the wind and money can be accurately measured.
Footprints remains one of my favorite poems. Even if I were to stop believing (I still am a believer), it would still be. Why? Because it reminds you that, no matter what, you’re never alone in this world no matter how much it tries to put you down.
This video unlocked so many memories for me. Memories of innocently asking for clarity in church and being told I was being difficult. Memories of sitting in church and struggling to feel that closeness and conviction that I was holy, a Christian, saved, going to Heaven. Memories of struggling to understand _why_ I would want to spend eternity worshiping and trying to convince myself that my mind would be altered to enjoy it (and that this was somehow good). And memories of so many days and nights spent praying, pleading, sobbing quietly over my Bible for God to show me a sign, to show me what to do, to help me understand "difficult truths" I'd been taught my entire life that were somehow not meshing with the reality I was having to live. It took well over a decade after I stopped pleading with God for help to start believing I might not be a horrible person. It's still a work in progress. I'm still a work in progress. But I'm not anyone's clay but my own. There's no potter but me. And as terrifying as that can be sometimes, it's freeing.
After I left the priesthood I drank for almost a decade because I still felt the presence of something all the time. I didn’t need to drink anymore when I realized I felt a connection to other people and an empathy for the human condition
I dropped out of seminary in 87. I knew there was something after death and still do. Christianity actually takes humanity away from ever realizing this. Christianity actually ruins the quality of life one can have knowing this. Religion/Christianity is like being held in a state hospital psychiatric ward, all drugged up, keeping one in a comatose state of nothingness.
For about 2 years, I volunteered 3 services every Sunday. I went to small group on Wednesday nights. I still felt imposter syndrome because I didn't read my bible and I didn't feel "close to God". I always felt guilty because all of the advice I was given was "just keep trying to move closer to God" but I felt like I was at my limit of how much I was doing for "God" and for the church. I look back and I'm proud for getting myself out of that situation.
There were times I was positive I felt God, there were times I was positive he was working in my life, there were times where I thought he led me directly. Wondering why I associate God with these perfectly normal feelings that everyone experiences is one of the things that led me down my deconstruction
Great video! I held on to all the verses and promises for so long and blamed myself for god not answering my prayers or for not feeling close. I am so much happier now.
I used to get chills in worship (still do honestly, sometimes) but I also do watching Lord of the Rings or listening to a great song. There’s some fascinating neuroscience about the whole body chills and stuff apparently
12:21 You know, when I was a teenager and still a believer, I had made the observation that if you took God out of a lot of the Christian music my mom played in the car, a good amount of that music would sound like love songs, and this clip reminded me of that.
I remember learning this at my church in my senior year of high school, I was completely involved with youth groups and the church. Towards the end of my faith I remember one night I had prayed and screamed into my pillow for these bad feelings to go away. I was met with silence, I remember bringing this up to my youth leader and he just said that I needed to pray more and harder. I felt like I was giving it my all that one night, I remember praying for hours. I eventually stopped putting my energy and time into it. It's still unfortunate to see my whole family believe such toxic and mentally deranged things
My experience was kind of the opposite. I was hearing all these people around me talk about how they felt God and had him speak to them and stuff. I never did. It wasn't for a lack of trying. I constantly wondered what I was doing wrong and why I couldn't feel God or why he never spoke to me. Funny now seeing all the memes where people talk about how they went to their first (non religious) concert/live music event and it turns out it wasn't God, they just really like live music.
I grew up secular and all of this stuff is so fascinating to me. Its insane how normalized it is to straight up brainwash people into believing some random book. To the point it makes people delusional. It truly is a different way to live life. When you don't grow up with any of it you can really see how its just a made up story book, no different from anything else you read. Christians have had thousands of years to prove anything and they've failed. Really proud of everyone who was able to get out! Y'all deserved better ❤️.
As somebody raised in the Evangelical/Charismatic movement, I was told over and over about the importance of having “close encounters” with that deity - and yet I never really experienced what I was supposed to: sure, I told my family that I did because it was expected but it was a lie to fit in. The reality is that, even though I accepted the value system of the faith, my beliefs were more intellectually assenting to those concepts (with various questions and doubts popping up frequently - which were then put out of mind when I couldn’t get satisfactory answers to them) without spiritual experiences that everyone else around me was having (or at least pretending to have…). Once the questions and doubts could no longer be ignored, it was pretty easy for me to walk away as there was no real emotional connection to the alleged deity holding me back - and that made my leaving the faith a simple matter of shifting my social circles towards those that more closely reflected my newly-formed value system.
This is why I left, I never felt any kind of presence. I remember as a young kid looking around at church at the people with raised hands and wondering what they were experiencing that I wasn't. When I prayed it felt like I was talking to myself and I wondered what was wrong with me. I kept trying my best and reading the bible. I thought it might be because i was still young and it would start to make sense as I got older, but it never did. I realized it just wasn't for me and gave up around 14 after someone close to me died. Now that I'm coming up on 30 I'm finally starting to discover a different kind of presence that actually resonates, a true awe and love for my place in the universe that actually comes from within.
I never felt god as a kid even though my mum and RE teachers said I must have. I had one religious experience at about 19 when the environment, music, people (speaking in tongues) and being at a retreat created the atmosphere for my brain to create that experience. What I did have was being told I was a good kid while at the same time being taught I was a horrible person who would go to hell just because of who I am. I’m so glad I finally left the cult I was born into and allowed myself to live my real self.
When I was a kid growing up in the South, we used to go to a river near our house that had a train trestle. When a train would cross the river, we’d try to count the cars. If you’ve ever tried to count moving train cars, you know how difficult it is, especially when they’re moving at 50 or 60 miles an hour. Usually we just had to give up. When it comes to feeling the presence of god, I remember how impossible it felt to feel god, especially when I needed the reassurance the most. Instead of answers, you get an ever shifting, seemingly unending list of excuses for why it was my fault. This video reminded me of trying to count the train cars and why I quit Christianity. I grew exhausted with the excuses for god and reached the conclusion, I don’t feel him because he’s not there!
At the Catholic church I used to attend, they repeated the same quote: "Where is God? God is where YOU left him. " This was very heartbreaking to me because I never missed mass and even went twice a week at some point, and I prayed ALL. THE. TIME., yet when I experienced the worst depression I've had to endure, I felt quite abandoned by the one I never left its side: God. Prayers were not enough for the deep sadness I felt. So much so that the abandonment of my God in these tough times made me feel even worse. I was stuck in that depression for over a year and found healing... right after leaving the church. It's been 5 years, and my mental state has gotten way better while learning to unlearn all the things that are normal are not quite as sinful as they paint it.
Videos like these make me so happy that I could see the hypocrisy of my parents religion early and that I grew up in public school with secular (and pagan) friends.
"We had no money" is quite the statement from a dude talking about constantly playing golf. Like, if he is sincere in all he's saying there, dude was burning the funds that he did have to play golf, cause its an expensive sport, but I suspect it is more a matter of the guy not having ever known actual hardship.
As someone who was never really a Christian, it consistently baffles me how any adult with a functioning brain can listen to the words coming out of these people's mouths and not immediately turn and run in the opposite direction.
They say that God can't happear to humans to preserve free will, but they also claim to have personal relationships with him Shouldn't they consider it a tragedy? That they don't have free will anymore😮
Thank you. I'm 48 and stopped believing in God when I was 11, but I've always harbored resentment. A hatred of both God and those that believed. I've been listening to all of your podcasts and its made me realize that those that follow God are just bamboozled by religion and churches, its not that God didn't love me. Something my brain knew, but my heart struggled with. I consider myself atheist, and I'm so confused at the part of myself that hates Christianity. If I don't belive, why do I still feel so much?
I remember as a child, I was so jealous of everyone else around me having encounters. My mom would read me a book filled to the brim of this missionary woman's account of encounters galore. When my mom read me a chapter about a miracle of healing body parts, I started crying and yelled "Why can't he heal me? Why can't he encounter me? What am I doing wrong?!". Well, it's rather simple you haven't learned how to trick yourself into seeing every single positive thing as a miracle. I learned that the key is desperation to blind your critical thinking. Also speaking in tongues is just speaking gibberish in an accent when you feel a rush of adrenaline. Once I started deconstructing, I stopped tricking myself and like turning on a lightbulb in a dark room, the encounters and miracles faded in an instant.
The Christian God is like a deadbeat dad. He’s never around when you need him. Whenever he doesn’t show up, or fails to live up to expectations, it’s always your fault and you just don’t understand how hard he’s trying! But he always wants to hear about how great he is and remind you of that birthday card he sent you when you were six.
Thanks for putting words to feelings I’ve had but haven’t been able to express. I still feel ashamed because I left the faith primarily due to guilt and dwindling closeness with God. It bothers me because it’s easy prey for family and friends to brush it off and say that I failed to endure. Which hurts, because I put so much time into connecting with God on my own and at church. I didn’t want to leave, but I couldn’t take it anymore, and I already had rising doubts about things I was taught that didn’t align with my experiences of the world. I’m a lot happier and healthier mentally now, but sadly my folks have a hard time comprehending this fact. It’s hard to explain to them.
We love and adore you back. You’re looking rly healthy and contented lately (like one of your cats). I remember, near the end of my belief, that I couldn’t bear to sit still and pray or meditate on god or huge doubts would begin to intrude. I had to actually avoid the quietness of prayer bc of this and eventually, as that repetition waned, clarity bloomed
huge doubts would begin to intrude....not an intrusion...sounds more like a meditation.... Black widows arrive 3 weeks in advance. and they are a constant intrusion. till they actually show in in real life. pay attention to such intrusions on your thoughts.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Thank People(that’s my new replacement for the generic Thank God) that I did get those lovely “intrusive” doubts n thoughts. Saved me from a lifetime of voluntary near slavery to an imaginary bad guy
The title card for this episode (1:07) is awesome. I've been a subscriber since you released your 2nd video essay, and your production values just keep getting better and better (while also not putting so much emphasis on style that it takes the focus away from the video's actual content). As a fellow former fundamentalist Christian myself, your videos have been incredibly helpful to me on my own path of deconstruction. A thousand sincere thank yous to you from me and everyone else you've helped along the way
Wonderful talk, and that's coming from a Christian. Funny thing, I've never expected to "feel" some sort of "presence". If God wants me to "feel his presence", that's up to God, not me. However, whenever I've thought that I should give up on trusting God, that's when uncanny things happened that would draw me back.
@@justin2308 it wasn't a feeling. i think feelings are unreliable. it was events that took place that consistently pointed me to Jesus. The first time, something made no sense and thought I shouldn't follow him. Immediately I went into a trance, walked over to a colleague's bookshelf, picked up a book, turned to a particular page, and started reading. when i came out of the trance, i discovered that it had addressed my concern spot on. Other experiences were not as dramatic but they all consistently pointed me to Jesus.
Reading the book Silence (the one the movie is based on) when I was in highschool is one of the reasons for my deconvergion. It made me reflect on the fact that I have always experienced an abscence of god in my personal life but also made me think of all the horrors that ocur all over the world that none, Christian or otherwise, are spared from experiencing. The book is brilliant but it still haunts me to this day and I can't recommend it to anyone.
Growing up in a Christian home, being told I could go to hell for thought crime, and never feeling the "presence" of god, I was convinced I was evil. No kid should have to deal with that. No adult should have to be poisoned with that. I was never assaulted. I was never physically abused. But I will always consider what I went through as child abuse. You don't need to touch a child to harm them. You don't need to physically hurt them to ruin their mind for decades.
One of the sickest organization is the Southern Baptist leadership.
Raising a child in a way that makes them grow up believing that they are evil despite not having done anything is definitely child abuse.
You were psychologically abused.
Yes, same. No child should be made to feel like 'Jesus is disappointed in you'. I can't help mistakes, I'm a kid.
Oh goooods, I know that feel. x_x
"God is the leader of our relationship." But nothing is his fault.
He takes all credit and no responsibility.
@@BlackCover95 yup
When something good happens, it’s God fault.
When something bad happens, it’s your fault. Or The Devil’s. Convenient.
Keyser Soze almost got it right. The greatest trick God ever pulled was convincing the world that The Devil exists.
@@darren.mcauliffe
Or it’s good actually, because God’s Plan.
@@BlackCover95 If it’s good it must be God’s plan. It couldn’t possibly be because of us.
The upside to losing faith because you didn't hear God is it's proof you're not mentally ill.
Or at least not the type of mentally ill that causes one to hear disembodied voices.
@@bradleyyurk5744 I was thinking that after I posted 😄
I know someone that*does* hear voices, but is atheist.
I have the mental illness that makes me hear voices, when I was religious I thought it was god 😭 I’m on meds now so much better!
But then you find out all the mental illnesses that faith gave you lmao
As a former Christian, it flabbergasts me how much work believers put into manufacturing a sense of God's presence, without ever noticing how much work they're putting into manufacturing a sense of God's presence.
*THIS*
What I mostly remember is the things were forbidden that could generate a similar feeling. Yoga and dance, secular or classical music. Just to be save we only feel those things as a precense of god...
@@JudithRBosIndeed! My parents totally freaked out when I tried meditation 😂
When everyone else in church says they feel God’s presence, there is tremendous pressure (on kids especially) to invent your own god experience.
Christianity is an exhausting religion and I mean that literally. It can be so taxing mentally, spiritually and intellectually.
Uh oh, here come the "you were never a real Christian 😠" comments
Reply: Then 'you're' not a Christian and never was either.
🙄
Metalheads: You don't listen to *insert metal genre here* so you're not a real metalhead!!!!!!!
It sounds familiar for some reason. Do those noble, pure-harted christians really want to associate with us heathens?
@@Andrea-cq6eg
The real question is. Do we noble, pure hearted meatheads want to be associated with those heathen Christians. I answer a profound, HELL NO! -Ex-Christian
Gotta love the "no true Scotsman" fallacy
When the dude said god told him to give the pastor his golf clubs I let out an involuntary “oh fuck off!”
That line was on repeat for me all throughout the video. Along with "Or maybe because he doesn't exist?" every time they tried to blame the person starting to doubt.
I too had that exact same reaction: oh fuck off
That must have been the day that god took a day off killing babies with preventable diseases
@@philbydee Same in a Logan Roy tone of voice
@@pascalcasimier7748 that's the exact voice I read that in 😅
one of the most poisonous aspects of growing up christian is the pathological fear of being too comfortable or happy. the sheer amount of times as a kid i had the stray thought that my enjoyment of video games, or talking to my non christian friends or even just playing outside would separate me from god and i was convinced it was him giving me a message. "them or me". the amount of times i guilted and scared myself into being needlessly unhappy because "suffering produces the best in us spiritually". it felt so gross.
ive suffered enough thanks, ill take my joy now.
Dang you sound homeschooled or something
This is exactly how I felt growing up!
Yep, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. It makes me so angry now that I was forced to spend so much precious time thinking like that instead of just being allowed to enjoy life!
Same they should be teaching connections and friends are important not that you should be alone even hate your family and be alone to follow jesus.
That happened to me with writing books. Suddenly an innocent hobby became a sin because I liked it too much.
They always told me that "God speaks as quiet as a mouse", so your mind needs to be quiet to hear him.
OK God, how do you expect me to have a calm mind when ADHD exists!?
What do you mean?! ADHD doesn’t exist, you’re just not trying hard enough! Just pay attention and the answers will just come to you!
This is a joke btw
Not to mention the fact that a disquiet mind is *when you would need God's help to begin with*
@@KlutzerBomb Maybe the real answer is the same way the Philosopher's Stone works, in the alchemical sense.
The time when you attain that level of closeness to God, is when you least needing His help.
@@chewxieyang4677 yes...counterintuitive and frustrating...stress ruins everything.
I always found Christian "logic" baffling...Why does an all powerful being need to be so obtuse and vague? To the point it's indiscernable whether he exists or not.
Funny how the "presence of God" and the non-existence of a god, seem to be the same thing, huh?
At the very very end of my deconstruction, I prayed to Satan, just in case.
He ignored me, too.
Lol😂😂😂😂 love it😂😂😂
Yeah, Satan isn’t really into the whole “prayer” thing - he prefers to finance death metal bands these days…
Powerful
their is no Satan....hell is 4.0
Definitly not a good idea. I can’t help thinking that Anton Lavey on his deathbed sees,feels the devil jump up and bite his ass. “Oh my. Oh God, what have I done.?”
“God didn’t move. You did.” Blame the victim.
How does an omnipresent entity move anyway? And how does one move away from such an entity anyway? The logistics don’t make sense…
Did you get covid? God says you didn't pray hard enough to be well.
omnibenevolent, omniscient being beyond time can't cram a minute in everyone's day to help them..
how lovely. you know someone loves you when they ignore you and make you feel like you did something wrong.
I’ve never ever felt gods presence. I grew up feeling like something was wrong with me and then after being SA’ed by my stepfather I felt it was because I wasn’t pure enough. I’m so glad I’m an atheist now! ❤
I’m so sorry and I’m glad you an atheist too!
wtf
Zero things wrong with you (even being traumatized isn't wrong. Same bro haha), and yes. It is so good to release the shame. What is real is real.
To sense it on a neurological level is to remember we can create our own fun and hurtful things do not have control over us.
@@domeatown 🥰
Soo sorry you went through that 😢
I love how that in this video they're talking about how busyness is not close to godliness and then in other videos we watch them complain about people being too lazy. make up your mind
Yup!!!
Ah yes, the 'sin' of 'sloth'.
You're supposed to work for me 6 days a week, and on the 7th day you 'rest'... 'rest' by working to travel to my location and give me the money you made on the previous 6 days.
Welcome to Christian double talk.
@@Rawnblade13 doubleplusungood talk
I could never really "feel God," but as a Christian I lied to everyone (including myself) about it until I couldn't anymore.
I'll never forget something one of my youth counselors said to me after I started deconstructing. She said "Maybe you expect too much from God." This was shocking to me, after all the assurances from the pulpit about "ask and ye shall receive" and the unlimited power of the Almighty.
Sounds like a rationalization she came up with to silence her own doubts. Treating a deity like a disappointing parent. It's like something you'd say to a kid disappointed Santa Claus didn't bring them a new bike.
How can you “expect too much” from an omnimax entity - the very concept is a contradiction!
@@wilberwhateley7569So much of Christianity falls apart when you remember that part of their theology and apply basic logic to it.
@@wilberwhateley7569 "omnimax" 😆 Makes me think of "looks-maxxing": "Check it out, God be over here "almighty-maxxing" so he can pull more followers." (you pick up some of the terminology when you lurk in RP/PUA groups, lol).
As someone who has suffered severe major depressive disorder since I was quite young (grade school if not before), I remember trying every single thing anyone recommended to feel closer to god. I remember crying and screaming and begging to stop feeling the way I did, to make the bullying stop, to get the help I needed, to stop wanting to unalive myself, and being met with ......... nothing. Just deafening silence. And then being told it must be my fault.
Yo same
Same :DDD
I'm sorry you experienced this instead of getting evidence based medical assistance. Not that medicine has a magic pill, but at least it doesn't claim to. When atheists/agnostics describe religion as a harmless belief and question my fairly vehement anti-theism, well, stories like this are why. Victim blaming is always ugly. Victim blaming mental illness is particularly atrocious.
My sister said religion is harmful. I did not believe her. She was a "wild" reader. I thought she was just being "funny" and just would like to "show off" every time she narrated origins, tenets, time frame,.... words I haven't heard of. For so many years, I did not believe her. When I started watching channels like this (very recent), it is only then I realized we're in deep deep trouble. I am very sorry to hear what you went through and for all that endured the same, I am sorry. I am guilty of good things I could have done but did not do. (Voltaire)
Or God did talk to you but you don't know it yet or God will work with you but not now or like the magic 8 ball,Outlook not so good. There's always a reason why you hear nothing but it's still there somehow. Anyone who cares if their beliefs are true and honestly looks would be agnostic. I don't see how a God could be but I am open to believe if the evidence is there.
Thanks for covering this topic! Having OCD, I would became literally obsessed with finding or feeling God. And then feeling like i was an awful sinner if I didnt. A very unhealthy cycle im thankful to be out of!
Scrupulosity/ moral OCD sucks . I remember when I went to church. Whenever they asked the kids who haven't prayed for forgiveness yet if they wanted to pray, I would always go up because I never felt "saved" enough. I also became heavily self sacrificing because I felt like I had to make up for the lack of a real savior/ Messiah. I only got over it in the last 3 years.
@@Whoohoonutty2020 I hear you, I experienced something very similar. Constant cycle of never feeling enough.
The irony of these pastors claiming we need to slow down... 2020 forced me to slow down and gave me an acceptable reason to stop going to church. That's when I actually had time to process my feelings of guilt, lean into deconstruction, and then eventually discover my OCD diagnosis!
I hope you're finding a healthier mental place ♥️
@@stubbwinkley4015
I'm convinced religion often causes more harm than good for us neurospicy folk if it's not taken with great care!
me too jfdjjdkd. im in therapy for it right now, and i hope everyone else who deals with this stuff gets the help that they need!
ive always been obsessed with the idea of forgiveness, like every small thing was a sin and i had to do a million things to make sure i was saved. i was also told i was gifted to feel god's presence, and when i felt nothing i started praying all the time and begging for him to let me feel him because i was so scared id end up in hell. im a minor, and ive only started deconstruction a few months ago, so my ocd does get bad sometimes even when i know it doesnt make sense. for everyone else, i hope you know you arent alone and that recovery is a real possibility, no matter how consuming these thoughts may be.
@@superlur in terms of religious fear I'm definitely gotten better. I was at least lucky enough to not be forced to go church and I've been atheist for at least 6 1/2 years. And while I was diagnosed with OCD at a very young age it seemed like no one around me knew what it was. I only fully realized how bad things were for me mentally in 2020.
Thanks for sharing your experience though. I hope that things are going better for you and others with OCD as well.
I remember having a personal crisis because I thought I'd hardened my heart. Now I know I was disassociating.
Ah friend, I have been there. I feel robbed of years sometimes. It's ridiculous
I remember those days as a Christian: trying to go somewhere beautiful, peaceful, and close to nature, like a park or a beach, in order to "spend time with God" and hopefully restore my soul with his presence.
It never really worked, but I kept doing it.
Turns out I just liked being close to nature. 😁
Nature may not love us, but at least its _real_ and it's clearly got no _problem_ with us either. We're part of it, and we can experience it much more tangibly than God.
God, is just constant "Do better, you're not good enough to be with me yet/right now, etc."
Nature relationship vs. God relationship? Nature wins in my book.
Yeah, even if you're there to 'reconnect with God' or not, spending time in nature is truly refreshing. Coming from an agnostic.
I had a severe mental breakdown when I was younger because I misattributed OCD like symptoms to god telling me what to do. I was "told" to do menial things like washing my hands after touching basically anything, and avoiding "secular" sources of entertainment. It destroyed the skin of my hands and my mental state for months. I'm so glad to have resolved that for myself, and found some peace in a little bit of selfishness.
Can you imagine a child trying to connect with their father, and the father just giving them the silent treatment? Making them think they’re “not doing the right thing” to get his attention. This mentality is completely abusive and fucked up!
sad. And even then, if the child really REALLY wanted to, he/she probably could find some evidence for his/her father's existence.
in many ways, a vanishing father is way better than this g0d... thing / stuff / myth / rant.
(I had to pile up some words because I really don't know what my fellow humans mean by the word "god")
Is your father deceased? If such is the case, he's most likely wallowing in the putrescent abominably polluted waters of Perdition. (Or not. I'm just being facetiously dramatic here.) I would have to say that you've ultimately won. And I will say too: Peace to You.
It was always so scary watching people get deep into worship, and I never could. I spent years thinking it was some flaw in me. It finally made sense when I went to a secular concert for the first time. Turns out I just don’t get moved by music the way a lot of people do. I just kinda stand there.
But it’s really, if someone is falling away and *begs* God to show up, if he doesn’t, it’s not their fault. If my child is crying for me, I will do anything I can for them to know I am there for them. I’m not going to expect them to go through hoops.
Looking back I was never able to be moved by music in church
I just never could
But video game music always could
This exactly. Always felt like I was watching a horror movie. I couldn’t participate in it - I could only watch these people screaming and crying and babbling. Never felt anything except unease.
I still believe, but I never could do it either. I loved the music, I could sing along, but I never felt the same arm-lifting passion that others felt…
Honestly, listening to some of those pastors talking about how you 'feel' god practically flirts with astrology with how flimsy it comes across to a non-believer.
"How do you know your god exists?"
"I feel something! Only sometimes though! A vague feeling that I'm calling God!"
Said with a kind of breathless excitement as if that's supposed to be even the slightest fraction of a bit convincing to anyone else.
Lol!!!!
Astrology is "fun", I am cancer
The thing about these religions is that they’ve already primed you to interpret everything negative as YOUR fault, so when you come to them with these questions and say “Am I doing something wrong?” their answer is always going to be, “of course you did.” So glad to be out of that mess.
I was vulnerable to religion simply because I already felt like something was wrong with me. Depression, neurodivergence, being queer... I was ripe for it.
I was working on my degree in clinical psychology around the same time my sister was diagnosed with a severe mental illness from religious trauma. Every time I watch one of your videos I think about how these preachers are creating toxic environments for their groups and the effects they are having. This video feels like the best example of psychological abuse. Gaslighting at its finest. Thanks for compiling these to help me understand how these religious leaders work.
Hope your sister's doing well. And you too.❤
I kinda wish they'd stick RTS in the DSM, shamefully too many people are against even labelling it as 'religious trauma' because it draws attention to how religions are inherently harmful in so many ways.
I have another family member who was raised catholic I recently found out is suffering due to religious trauma and induced acute depression, who's trying to reach out and convince people that something's wrong with them but the religious people around them are just telling her she's lazy and a bad mother.
Which seems to have stemmed from their children being autistic, the church blaming her kids being autistic on her being a bad parent, and everyone else treating her like everything's fine when she's seriously struggling and ignoring her when she seeks help.
It's reached a point where everyone I counsel's problems basically either stem from capitalism or religion.
@@pickledragonrebel thank you. My family is doing the best we can to make sure she’s being properly cared for.
@@theharlequin3088 that is a sad story. My sister’s son is also autistic and requires a lot of care. It’s difficult to care for children with special needs and our world isn’t equipped to help those people or their caregivers. Evangelical communities DO perpetuate, capitalism and individualism as righteousness and in hand they are supported by corporate donations and political power. It’s the Neoliberal Triad that controls the minds, hearts and wallets of many Americans. I’m a black trans woman with mental illness peppered through my communities. I see my entire family and community collapse on themselves as a result of in congruent ideology like the Religion Right and the Nation of Islam. It hurts.
@@MxFourhornes It's incredibly difficult, especially when we can't just tell people 'you're mental cause your religious cult fucked you up.'
...and you're not even allowed to mention the subject because those religions have made it illegal, meanwhile those same religions are allowed to do horrendously inhumane things and operate genocidal campaigns against people with impunity.
I'm also trans, and I have copy/pasta I've just started spamming on every vid mentioning religion and lgbtqia+ you might like just to try and combat some of the bigotry and exploitation.
"For context, right-wing cults and organizations have spent the past few decades paying for propaganda to portray lgbt people as a religious/political ideology.
The members of their cult and those who fall for their indoctrination genuinely believe that trans people don't exist... that gay people don't exist, that lesbians don't exist, that bisexual people don't exist, that intersex people don't exist, that asexual people don't exist... etc.
Despite extensive and conclusive evidence that all these people are real, and do in fact exist... and are simply a natural part of the broad spectrum of humanity.
It's a bit like the flat-earth cult convincing people that the earth isn't round, because it keeps them engaging with and giving money to the flat-earth cult.
In cult psychology, you do this to control the perception and exposure of those you wish to exploit.
For example, pretend you run one of those flat-earth clubs with membership fees and merchandise... you can't disprove all the concrete evidence that the earth is round, and if your cult members learn about our solar system they'll realize you're a fraud and stop giving you money.
So you don't show them the evidence and disprove it, you tell them that the evidence is made up so that you can claim you don't have to disprove it... the earth isn't 'round', that's just a made up ideology by big globe tech or a fake religion made up by the big globe illuminati.
Now if that cult members sees a working model of the solar system, they won't think - 'Oh cool what's that? How does our planet work?' like a normal person and learn about it... that cult member will see the solar system and subconsciously dismiss it and think 'Oh I know everything about that! That's a fake made up scam ideology!' ...and learn nothing about it.
Controlling a person's perception and experience in this manner keeps them ignorant and easy to manipulate... and keeps them coming back and buying your flat-earth cult T-shirts.
The same principles are used by bigoted political and religious cults against lgbt+ people to dehumanize and invalidate their existence.
Such organizations can't disprove the overwhelming substantive evidence for trans peoples' existence, nor do they wish to allow their members to learn anything about trans people.
Instead they falsely advertise and misrepresent it as 'trans ideology' and 'trans activism' or 'woke ideology' and 'gender ideology'... which just like the flat-earth cult, keeps their victims ignorant and easy to manipulate.
So now like you see here, they don't say 'Oh? What's a trans person?' nor learn anything about reality...
...they say 'I know everything about this! Why are you forcing this made up religious ideology on me!?'.
Because they are under the delusion that trans people aren't real, and that everyone merely 'believes' they're real... as if we're believing the tooth-fairy is real and activists are forcing them to put their teeth under our pillows for us.
Once you've convinced all these victims to believe in such a delusion, that the evil tooth fairy activists are coming for their teeth and their wife's teeth and their children's teeth... you can then tell them you're 'anti tooth-fairy', you're 'anti-fairy', you're against the 'woke teeth agender'...
...and you need good honest noble heroes to give you money and vote for you so that you can finally stop the evil globalist tooth-fairy 1984 apocalypse that's definitely happening right now!
This is why such hysteria exists around these subjects.
The same type of propaganda manipulation was used against women in the 1930's.
Then against working class people in the 1950's.
Then against black people in the 1960's-70's.
Then against gay people in the 1980's.
Then against atheists.
Then against muslims.
Then against bisexuals.
Then against young generations.
Then against migrants.
Etc. etc. etc...
I know this is a fairly long read, but if you understand it please copy and share it so that more people are aware and have a better chance of protecting themselves from exploitation.
Knowing how you can be exploited is part of how you protect yourself from being exploited."
"I don't feel God's presence anymore. According to pastors it's because I somehow moved away"
Few thousand years ago:
"there was thunder. The gods are angry! We must've moved away from the gods somehow!"
God is the Sun and you don't want to join him.
@@harveywabbit9541 Obviously. Who'd want to fly into the sun?
@@FinckelsteinIcarus?
@@Finckelstein
We have millions of fools who are waiting to be raptured up to Join Jesus, the SUN.
@@wilberwhateley7569 look how that ended up for him
I remember when I lost my faith completely over the pandemic, first time I went back to church all the fuzzy spiritual feelings were gone and I realized all the music and ritual was just making my brain feel things for no logical reason.
Re: supernatural/spiritual meaning- when i was 17, my 20 year old brother- who was by far the most important person in my life- was killed by a drunk driver. A few days after the funeral a myself and a group of friends got together for an impromptu wake of sorts. One of the things my brother really loved was fireworks...as the night went on we all started to notice a vast number of 'shooting stars'. we were outside of the city so there was no light interference. As we sat there watching this incredible display we all felt that my brother was putting on a fireworks show for us. For years I believed this and would tell this story of my "spiritual event." Until I told someone familiar with the Perseid meteor shower- that happens every year that time 🙃. At first it bummed me out, then i realized that i can watch it every year and have done so for 38 years.
Aww that’s so sweet condolences to your brother tho
@@MrAnonymous55592 thanks, 💚
Even when I was a little kid and we were going to church regularly, I never felt any real connection to God. It just didn't make much sense to believe in something you can't touch, see, or hear.
Same here - I always found church to be a boring experience that I was obligated to go through on Sundays and Wednesdays. I always preferred a good film or book over a church service.
@@wilberwhateley7569Same here, I really don’t see the importance of church even nowadays
I clung, yes clung, to my Baptist beliefs so hard that I rejected non-Christian social groups and was therefore incredibly lonely and left to feel like an “other,” I volunteered at Awana even though I wasn’t permitted to interact with the children because I travel for work and did not provide suitable stability for them (but I think they were just appalled that a married woman didn’t stay home for her husband), and the icing on the cake was that I fasted for 20 days in prayer just so god would reveal to me why I was so lost in his community. The only positive thing that came of all that was that my eyes were opened to the incredible isolation, misogyny, and bullshit that is the so called “Loving people of God.”
I sure do love having a strong (all powerful) man inside me at all times (omnipresence)!
Me too! (I’m atheist)
sure? if he is omnipresent, his mouth is also in the sewers.
@@istvansipos9940even better tbh. love a supposedly-powerful man that'll degrade himself for me all the time
this just felt like a compilation of gaslighting. Trust what you’re feeling but under no circumstances trust what you’re feeling!
That's most of the clips in these videos to me
"Please Lord, I beg of you, at your Feet, show me you are real, in a way that I will understand"
The same Prayer I prayed for years, before my De-conversion
Only the weak-minded abandon belief for that reason. The world and all of its magnificence is proof. You think that was formed by accident? Science has never suggested life created itself.
Please Lord, I beg of you, show me your feet
Wow, this is sobering. As a life long atheist, I never had these thoughts and since I don't watch apologetics outwardly aimed at christians, I never saw these "arguments". It's utterly appalling. "It's your fault! No, the omnipotent dude up in the sky isn't the one bad at communication, it's YOU!"
Seriously, how can anyone in their right mind listen to these snake oil salesmen and think they're the ones you should listen to in the first place?
I've been an atheist for 37 years, and never experienced the same fervor that some have...and for some reason, I'm drawn to this channel. I'm curious, as an atheist, why are you interested in this? Sometimes when I listen I feel like I'm invading something, like I'm not supposed to be here. I'm just curious what you get out of it.
Usually it's conditioning from a young age. If not that, churches often seek out vulnerable people who are struggling in one way or another and just need community and support.
@@JenniferDesrosiers-r3p For me at least, it's important that I think through any beliefs or, well, lack of belief I have. Many people are atheists simply because they haven't gone to church, and religious people of all kinds take advantage of that because many struggle to articulate their position of why they don't need or want a god
Well said. So, you actively make a decision to be an atheist, even though you've never been religious. Do you think atheists who've never been exposed to church would become religious if given a chance? All atheists know have been religious at some point, and their move away from religion has been a long, slow process, but that may be because of my age. It was just normal to go to church as a kid, and step away as an adult. Most of my family and friends have the same story. I'm struggling with trying to understand my absolute hatred of God, religion, and the people that believe. I've got a history of abuse, and was told that God didn't do anything about it because I wouldn't have found the strength within myself if he did it for me. Lol, what a crock. But thank you for your answer.
@@JenniferDesrosiers-r3p "So, you actively make a decision to be an atheist"
No, I have not. I am an atheist because being a theist is impossible for me. I quite literally can not believe in a god. You can't choose your convictions after all.
That's also why I would never accuse a theist of not actually believing in their deities, no matter how often they claim the reverse for me. It's just intellectually lazy.
"Do you think atheists who've never been exposed to church would become religious if given a chance?"
Some of them, sure. People get convinced of something of a plethora of reasons. But the vast majority of theists are theists because their parents indoctrinated them into their belief structure.
I myself grew up in a religion-free household and only read the bible at 19yo. I just laughed at the book and in my juvenile stupor thought that everyone who believes in it is simply stupid.
Now I understand that intelligence has a correlative effect, but doesn't fully explain it. You could be one of the most intelligent people in the world and still believe in it. That's how powerful childhood indoctrination is.
And that's also why I admire people who went through that and still managed to leave their cults.
Christianity’s doctrine of waiting for God to act on his own time as well as always believing no matter what brought me away from the religion in the first place. It never helped me when I prayed to be free of my abusers or to have relief from my depression and OCD. After leaving, I’ve found that relying on myself above all else is what brings me my real strength.
I was LITERALLY like I hope a new belief it or not is out and I opened UA-cam and here it was 😂
Thank you for getting him to post LMFAO
Praise the algorithms of the omnissiah!
Same!!
Praise Holy Algo!
I love it when your videos show up. I am convinced that religious belief is a mild form of of narcissism. The more fervent the belief, the higher the narcissism.
Oh it totally is! Talk to any Christian, they are are narcissistic.
Considering the Bible is essentially a Choose-Your-Own-Beliefs book where people cherry-pick the passages that validate how they are, in some form or another, BETTER than other people... yeah... I'd say more than 'mild'.
i cant disagree, but emotionally, i dont want to thik of myself as a recovered or recovering narcissist
yet you make too much sense
new existential crisis unlocked
Narcissism is an aspect of personality, in popular culture it's used to describe a disorder or people who are full of themselves.
It only becomes an issue when it becomes things like NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), with people developing over-exaggerated or delusional estimations of their ability, often more to their own detriment than others.
For example, I lived with a friend who has NPD who believed they were an amazing driver, but never bothered to practice because of that belief and never managed to get a license cause they believed they were already great and amazing.
Another NPD friend thought they could leap over a 7ft wall and dislocated their kneecap in the attempt.
Psychologically what we might call narcissism is more an aspect of self-esteem or self-confidence, which is a normal part of a healthy working brain.
It's the part of your psyche that tells you 'yes you are capable of boiling an egg, you don't need to be anxious and second-guess yourself'.
What we might call 'narcissistic' is believing you can boil an egg even if you've never done it before and know nothing about cooking.
So like most things, there's a spectrum that everyone usually falls somewhere on... and you can reach the extremes.
I would tend to agree about how religion influences narcissistic tendencies like this though, even just from the 'god is with me so I can do anything!' delusional attitude it instils in people... and it can make people more fervently narcissistic.
So I get what you're saying, just thought I'd add more info cause I like to ramble about psychology.
It doesn’t help that even though their savior acts like he preaches love and acceptance, he also is the one that introduces the concept of hell into the New Testament, and he makes it pretty clear that if you’re not with him, you’re against him. This really gives people the fall superiority that they are somehow better than others or deserving more than others, as well as that false entitlement to push it on folks. Leave it to religion to simultaneously give people a victim and superiority complex at the same time.
13:45 after I left the Mormon church, I brought up with my believing mother how I get the same feeling of “the spirit” that I did at church at secular music. She then reveals to me that she believes that if you get that feeling then the artist must have divine inspiration!
I get that feeling from Nine Inch Nails tho lol
@@KlutzerBomb hey, if there _is_ a god or gods, and they _do_ sometimes inspire music and musicians, Trent Reznor is clearly near the top of the list of likely recipients of that beneficence.
I’m surprised she didn’t claim it was demonic.
the Christian athlete Eric Liddell, famous quote on the lines of "God made me to run fast, and when I run I feel his pleasure". which I still find kinda sweet tbh
I guess by her logic pretty sunsets and beaches have divine inspiration too. Lol. There are many ways of evoking what they think of as spiritual feelings, but arr really just happiness and calm. Ex mo also. Congratulations for leaving.
I remember my grandma and aunt professing their genuine love for God and I remember wanting so badly to feel what they felt and never being able to. I gave up at 13. Been agnostic ever since.
This one is true.
I have schizophrenia. I have a particular tendency for having religious delusions I assume because of my religious upbringing. I absolutely felt 'god'. The voices and what I saw were god to me. Even when it become harmful some in the church directly enabled/encouraged my delusion and said what I was experiencing was real. My experience with religion was extremely damaging in getting a diagnosis and help and eventually learning what my entire reality was based around was..not real. Naturally after I was doing better and knew I had schizophrenia the same people who told me the voices were really god and I was very blessed were much less accepting. T
hey didn't care that I was doing better for myself, they disliked me now because I had lost my faith. It didn't matter that what I had been told was a strong connection to god was a mental condition. If anything I imagine the average person's discrimination against schizophrenic people since they see us as dangerous played a part as well, though I can't say that for sure.
the psychological conditioning of many of the churches showed in the video is so especially dangerous to people who struggle with psychotic disorders because many of us such as me can be such easy victims of it.
I always ask if schizophrenia'nics ever get, or got confirmations.
I was convinced that I could feel the Holy Spirit's presence in my just by thinking of it. My religious friends took it to mean that God was with me. Years later, I discovered that a small percentage of the population can give themselves goosebumps and the warm fuzzies on command. I felt so duped and stupid.
It's astonishing reading so many of these comments and seeing the common thread of psychological abuse that so many of us grew up with. It's incredibly sad that we're united in this way, because our childhoods, our innocence, our potential for who knows what great things were ripped away from us. 💔 I hope that we can all find ways to heal as much damage as possible, and be a source of strength for other people who have suffered/are still suffering similarly. 💜 I think that our Younger Selves would be proud of us for overcoming our traumatic experiences, and happy to know that we finally found freedom💜
Yea ❤
When the guy was going "If you *didn't* feel him... Whose fault is it?" I actually paused the video, swallowed my supper and cussed him out. Gods that's *gross* of him to put on people!
And man, footsteps in the sand is so condescending. All I'd ever asked for was for the god I worshiped to get the school admin to just do their job and send someone down to see the bullying I'd told them was happening. No answer, until I was pushed into the darkest despair... And only survived that because of a video game announcement I was waiting for.
Things only got done well over a year later, not because god did anything. Because my dad had enough and basically told the admins "Do your job or I'll do it for you".
I used to "feel god". And it was nothing but raging disappointment that "uugh, this loser sinner again who can't keep his thoughts under control? Begging for forgiveness AGAIN?".
When I finally realized it was just my anxiety being cranked up to 11, and not really "god", it was such a relief. It took years to unlearn that senseless anxiety and I'm so much better for it. That whole rant starting at 37:40 rings SOOOO true for me.
Seriously. The massive grin on his face too after saying that was just sickening. I had to look away. He looks and talks like a supervillain pastor.
Even as a Christian, that pastor saying "who's fault is it??" feels so condescending and wrong. We're taught not to be quick to judge but quick to be empathetic. At least for me, God reveals himself to people at separate times. Not everyone is going to be moved by a worship service that feels like a concert, which is what a lot of churches have turned in to (including my own, but i love it).
So when I was a Christian, I had the same thing. Why can't I feel/see/hear God?
"Maybe you just aren't worthy of his attention."
"You aren't listening hard enough. God is always speaking to us. You just aren't listening."
"Maybe you are just too full of Sin."
This was all changed when I was at the end of my Christian journey, and I asked someone who wasn't a Christian. I asked a Jewish Rabbi. Instead of making it my fault, he instead gave me the Jewish response, which was, "Well, sometimes God just doesn't feel like he has to answer. He's kind of a schmuck like that sometimes. Why do you think Moses was lost in the desert for forty years? He asked where he was supposed to be going, and God just decided to not answer for a while. And they didn't have any gas stations where he could buy a map."
That made more sense to me than anything else. He also told me that if you hear God too often, then it's probably time for psychotherapy.
A JEWISH RABBI told you God was a “kind of a schmuck”? I mean, I agree with the gist of that, Him choosing not to answer is how I learned it…
"How can you help my affliction
If you're the sickness and not the cure
Too long I've faked this addiction
Another sacrifice to make us pure
...
I know I can never prove this illusion
You aren't the one that I thought you were
So I learn to embrace this delusion
The line that separates us starts to blur
You tear me down and then you pick me up
You take it all but still it's not enough
You try to tell me you can heal me
But I'm still bleeding and you will be the death of me
And you will be the death of me
I won't forget, I cannot forget this
And you will be the death of me"
-Death Of Me by Red
I love that some Christian rock helped me during deconstruction.
I absolutely _ached_ to feel God. then I learned to let humans in. I learned to allow healthy touch and open communication. that's what I really needed: human connection.
Wow!!!!
This is really INSIGHTFUL!!!!!
*(I'm serious. I know this sounds like common sense but it's not always.... especially if we are still deep in it.)*
Thank you!!❤
@@Misakachichan it took me years to realize it and even longer to become comfortable reaching out to my support system.
I actually realised I was an atheist when I was 7 and I had this realisation that "oh crap, I'm supposed to have God COMMUNICATE with me?". I come from a country where most people belong to the church, but most people don't actually focus on religion. Like, if you go to church on the weekends, you're considered weird. But it was still a really difficult and scary realisation, because my family was in the church, my school had church visits, and I didn't know if anyone else felt this way. It also led to some early life existential crises, but I also attribute that somewhat to my very unhealthy growing up. I notice I never feel like that when I'm happy. And I was a miserable child.
Also this video reminds me of this story of a woman who believed in God wholeheartedly because she "felt him" during church music performances. Then she went to a Taylor Swift concert and realised she just liked live music.
Man, I wish I could send this to my mother, and that she would actually watch it. You lay out so clearly why this belief-system is just a way to control people and victim blame them when they inevitably feel that it doesn't live up to its promises.
Such a magical feeling to get to watch a video with a runtime longer than the time since it was uploaded
I got a pink invisible, levitating, cold blooded intangible dragon in my house.
Why should you believe me ? Because if not the dragon will eat your food in secret.
And this is how i started pink draconianism (literally), a new religion
Still more credible than most other religions! And as long as your dragon doesn't unalive entire populations, more moral than most other religions as well.
'Lord of the sapphire rings.' lol
I will devote 10% of my food to him.
What I want to know is if I don't follow pink draconianism and my food still goes missing... does that mean I'm the one eating it? If so do I gain the weight? Cause if I don't fuck yea, that's superpower level
"I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci"🙃
What is the difference between a child having an invisible friend and an adult having an invisible friend.
Children don't use their invisible friend as justification for running and/or ruining other people's lives.
Indica & Sativa is the difference. lol
@@DreamMonster7XXD nice
Children eventually stop believing in their invisible friends naturally as there’s no social support system to reinforce it.
The kid grows out of it, the adult doesn't
One of the important things to realize about religions and churches is that they are still cult organizations.
Organizations that for the past thousand years have perfected their sociopathy down to an artform of manipulation.
And the psychological damage this manipulation does to a person can be incredibly challenging to recover from.
I have a great deal of respect and empathy for all of you who've managed to survive through it all.
And for those with the stamina, I highly recommend learning about cults and cult psychology to be able to better protect yourselves and others from such inhumane exploitation.
It is totally my "fault" for not buying into a load of BS. Having a rational mind is such a terrible thing to have.😅
I'm pretty sure the takeaway from the speech at 12:00 wasn't supposed to be that "god is really underwhelming and easily replaced by cute girls, UA-cam videos, and bubble baths", but that's what I got from it.
...cute girls, UA-cam videos, and bubble baths in such a vibe tho.
Why don't they just come out and say "we want a community primarily composed of credulous, neurotypical people with money and time to spare for our benefit."?
the only time i ever really *felt* any presence was at those summer camps with the bands playing those big emotional songs that we held hands up and sang along to. The Great I Am was always my favorite. and i was *sure* without a doubt that the power of the Lord was flowing through me. that is until a couple years later at an EDM fest with porter robinson and realized that's just the power of good music i was feeling.
I know you will probably never see this comment, but I just want to say thank you for these deconstructing videos. I struggled with not feeling god's presence for years, and I've finally realized that it wasn't my fault that I didn't feel him, and that if he actually exists, he clearly doesn't want a relationship with me. Cause I tried for years, I prayed, I read my Bible, I accepted him into my heart so so SO many times, and he never responded. Your videos have helped me a lot with realizing that my feelings were valid and that I'm not alone, so thank you.
This hits home so hard because I grew up thinking there was something wrong me and that I was going to hell because I couldn't speak in tongues like everyone else around me. Thanks for doing what you do.
The emotional manipulation and gaslighting that goes into being a christian is both disgusting and exhausting. I never had to deal with having my entire world view come crashing down and having to come to terms with having lived a lie for most of my life so all I can offer you and others like you my sympathies.
Funny you mention "moist robots" cuz I was just watching the scene in Scavengers Reign where the little alien robot exists for 2 minutes just to pollinate a flower. It's life was so short but meaningful
Tbh this explains so much of why I end up in one-sided relationships now.
Oh my gah yes
New belief it or not just dropped, catch me with my headphones on in class rn
It's always been a very hard sell to convince me that I *need* to believe in something that we can't observe or verify the same way we can with nearly every other thing in the universe
Sometimes, apologists will use analogies that fall flat like "you can't see the wind," "you can't measure love," or "you've never seen a billion dollars." While these might seem persuasive, you're comparing apples to oranges and things like the wind and money can be accurately measured.
I'm no different....what eyes are you using?
Footprints remains one of my favorite poems. Even if I were to stop believing (I still am a believer), it would still be. Why? Because it reminds you that, no matter what, you’re never alone in this world no matter how much it tries to put you down.
This video unlocked so many memories for me. Memories of innocently asking for clarity in church and being told I was being difficult. Memories of sitting in church and struggling to feel that closeness and conviction that I was holy, a Christian, saved, going to Heaven. Memories of struggling to understand _why_ I would want to spend eternity worshiping and trying to convince myself that my mind would be altered to enjoy it (and that this was somehow good). And memories of so many days and nights spent praying, pleading, sobbing quietly over my Bible for God to show me a sign, to show me what to do, to help me understand "difficult truths" I'd been taught my entire life that were somehow not meshing with the reality I was having to live.
It took well over a decade after I stopped pleading with God for help to start believing I might not be a horrible person. It's still a work in progress. I'm still a work in progress. But I'm not anyone's clay but my own. There's no potter but me. And as terrifying as that can be sometimes, it's freeing.
Well this is a lovely birthday present! Happy birthday to me!
Happy birthday!
🌈🎉 Happy 🎂
PAGAN!!! Jk lol happy birthday!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FRIEND
Happy birthday!🎈🎂
After I left the priesthood I drank for almost a decade because I still felt the presence of something all the time. I didn’t need to drink anymore when I realized I felt a connection to other people and an empathy for the human condition
I dropped out of seminary in 87. I knew there was something after death and still do. Christianity actually takes humanity away from ever realizing this. Christianity actually ruins the quality of life one can have knowing this. Religion/Christianity is like being held in a state hospital psychiatric ward, all drugged up, keeping one in a comatose state of nothingness.
@@DreamMonster7X Couldn’t agree more, fellow apostate.
For about 2 years, I volunteered 3 services every Sunday. I went to small group on Wednesday nights.
I still felt imposter syndrome because I didn't read my bible and I didn't feel "close to God". I always felt guilty because all of the advice I was given was "just keep trying to move closer to God" but I felt like I was at my limit of how much I was doing for "God" and for the church. I look back and I'm proud for getting myself out of that situation.
It’s always great to hear you take down the fundamentalists. Your videos are a much more fun way to spend Sunday morning than church!
There were times I was positive I felt God, there were times I was positive he was working in my life, there were times where I thought he led me directly. Wondering why I associate God with these perfectly normal feelings that everyone experiences is one of the things that led me down my deconstruction
Well done Trevor. You’ve described perfectly the gaslighting that happens in churches. Thank you
Great video! I held on to all the verses and promises for so long and blamed myself for god not answering my prayers or for not feeling close. I am so much happier now.
I used to get chills in worship (still do honestly, sometimes) but I also do watching Lord of the Rings or listening to a great song. There’s some fascinating neuroscience about the whole body chills and stuff apparently
12:21 You know, when I was a teenager and still a believer, I had made the observation that if you took God out of a lot of the Christian music my mom played in the car, a good amount of that music would sound like love songs, and this clip reminded me of that.
That South Park episode reversed?
I remember learning this at my church in my senior year of high school, I was completely involved with youth groups and the church. Towards the end of my faith I remember one night I had prayed and screamed into my pillow for these bad feelings to go away. I was met with silence, I remember bringing this up to my youth leader and he just said that I needed to pray more and harder. I felt like I was giving it my all that one night, I remember praying for hours. I eventually stopped putting my energy and time into it. It's still unfortunate to see my whole family believe such toxic and mentally deranged things
My experience was kind of the opposite. I was hearing all these people around me talk about how they felt God and had him speak to them and stuff. I never did. It wasn't for a lack of trying. I constantly wondered what I was doing wrong and why I couldn't feel God or why he never spoke to me. Funny now seeing all the memes where people talk about how they went to their first (non religious) concert/live music event and it turns out it wasn't God, they just really like live music.
Are you me lol?
I grew up secular and all of this stuff is so fascinating to me. Its insane how normalized it is to straight up brainwash people into believing some random book. To the point it makes people delusional. It truly is a different way to live life. When you don't grow up with any of it you can really see how its just a made up story book, no different from anything else you read. Christians have had thousands of years to prove anything and they've failed.
Really proud of everyone who was able to get out! Y'all deserved better ❤️.
What country were you born
United states
As somebody raised in the Evangelical/Charismatic movement, I was told over and over about the importance of having “close encounters” with that deity - and yet I never really experienced what I was supposed to: sure, I told my family that I did because it was expected but it was a lie to fit in. The reality is that, even though I accepted the value system of the faith, my beliefs were more intellectually assenting to those concepts (with various questions and doubts popping up frequently - which were then put out of mind when I couldn’t get satisfactory answers to them) without spiritual experiences that everyone else around me was having (or at least pretending to have…).
Once the questions and doubts could no longer be ignored, it was pretty easy for me to walk away as there was no real emotional connection to the alleged deity holding me back - and that made my leaving the faith a simple matter of shifting my social circles towards those that more closely reflected my newly-formed value system.
This is why I left, I never felt any kind of presence.
I remember as a young kid looking around at church at the people with raised hands and wondering what they were experiencing that I wasn't. When I prayed it felt like I was talking to myself and I wondered what was wrong with me. I kept trying my best and reading the bible. I thought it might be because i was still young and it would start to make sense as I got older, but it never did. I realized it just wasn't for me and gave up around 14 after someone close to me died.
Now that I'm coming up on 30 I'm finally starting to discover a different kind of presence that actually resonates, a true awe and love for my place in the universe that actually comes from within.
I never felt god as a kid even though my mum and RE teachers said I must have. I had one religious experience at about 19 when the environment, music, people (speaking in tongues) and being at a retreat created the atmosphere for my brain to create that experience. What I did have was being told I was a good kid while at the same time being taught I was a horrible person who would go to hell just because of who I am. I’m so glad I finally left the cult I was born into and allowed myself to live my real self.
When I was a kid growing up in the South, we used to go to a river near our house that had a train trestle. When a train would cross the river, we’d try to count the cars. If you’ve ever tried to count moving train cars, you know how difficult it is, especially when they’re moving at 50 or 60 miles an hour. Usually we just had to give up.
When it comes to feeling the presence of god, I remember how impossible it felt to feel god, especially when I needed the reassurance the most. Instead of answers, you get an ever shifting, seemingly unending list of excuses for why it was my fault.
This video reminded me of trying to count the train cars and why I quit Christianity. I grew exhausted with the excuses for god and reached the conclusion, I don’t feel him because he’s not there!
At the Catholic church I used to attend, they repeated the same quote: "Where is God? God is where YOU left him. " This was very heartbreaking to me because I never missed mass and even went twice a week at some point, and I prayed ALL. THE. TIME., yet when I experienced the worst depression I've had to endure, I felt quite abandoned by the one I never left its side: God. Prayers were not enough for the deep sadness I felt. So much so that the abandonment of my God in these tough times made me feel even worse. I was stuck in that depression for over a year and found healing... right after leaving the church.
It's been 5 years, and my mental state has gotten way better while learning to unlearn all the things that are normal are not quite as sinful as they paint it.
I started screaming collective effervescence as soon as this episode started
Gotta love that blame game... if you don't feel close to God it's because YOU did something wrong.
If I have to do all the work to hear god then either I have authority over god or I am God! I like having all the power. 💥
Videos like these make me so happy that I could see the hypocrisy of my parents religion early and that I grew up in public school with secular (and pagan) friends.
"We had no money" is quite the statement from a dude talking about constantly playing golf. Like, if he is sincere in all he's saying there, dude was burning the funds that he did have to play golf, cause its an expensive sport, but I suspect it is more a matter of the guy not having ever known actual hardship.
As someone who was never really a Christian, it consistently baffles me how any adult with a functioning brain can listen to the words coming out of these people's mouths and not immediately turn and run in the opposite direction.
28:02 -and then Kenneth Copeland said “here, god told me to give this to you” and gave me a private jet!
I heard this woman say at a church group; “I feel like God communicates through my dreams.” I’m fr worried about her💀
"footprints" came up last weekend and I explained it to my son as "copypasta" that existed before the internet
This was what started me away from faith. Great to hear your experience too
They say that God can't happear to humans to preserve free will, but they also claim to have personal relationships with him
Shouldn't they consider it a tragedy? That they don't have free will anymore😮
I love the thrown in advocacy for working class solidarity in all of these videos they rock
Thank you. I'm 48 and stopped believing in God when I was 11, but I've always harbored resentment. A hatred of both God and those that believed. I've been listening to all of your podcasts and its made me realize that those that follow God are just bamboozled by religion and churches, its not that God didn't love me. Something my brain knew, but my heart struggled with.
I consider myself atheist, and I'm so confused at the part of myself that hates Christianity. If I don't belive, why do I still feel so much?
I remember as a child, I was so jealous of everyone else around me having encounters. My mom would read me a book filled to the brim of this missionary woman's account of encounters galore. When my mom read me a chapter about a miracle of healing body parts, I started crying and yelled "Why can't he heal me? Why can't he encounter me? What am I doing wrong?!". Well, it's rather simple you haven't learned how to trick yourself into seeing every single positive thing as a miracle. I learned that the key is desperation to blind your critical thinking. Also speaking in tongues is just speaking gibberish in an accent when you feel a rush of adrenaline. Once I started deconstructing, I stopped tricking myself and like turning on a lightbulb in a dark room, the encounters and miracles faded in an instant.
The Christian God is like a deadbeat dad. He’s never around when you need him. Whenever he doesn’t show up, or fails to live up to expectations, it’s always your fault and you just don’t understand how hard he’s trying! But he always wants to hear about how great he is and remind you of that birthday card he sent you when you were six.
Thanks for putting words to feelings I’ve had but haven’t been able to express. I still feel ashamed because I left the faith primarily due to guilt and dwindling closeness with God. It bothers me because it’s easy prey for family and friends to brush it off and say that I failed to endure. Which hurts, because I put so much time into connecting with God on my own and at church. I didn’t want to leave, but I couldn’t take it anymore, and I already had rising doubts about things I was taught that didn’t align with my experiences of the world.
I’m a lot happier and healthier mentally now, but sadly my folks have a hard time comprehending this fact. It’s hard to explain to them.
We love and adore you back. You’re looking rly healthy and contented lately (like one of your cats). I remember, near the end of my belief, that I couldn’t bear to sit still and pray or meditate on god or huge doubts would begin to intrude. I had to actually avoid the quietness of prayer bc of this and eventually, as that repetition waned, clarity bloomed
huge doubts would begin to intrude....not an intrusion...sounds more like a meditation.... Black widows arrive 3 weeks in advance. and they are a constant intrusion. till they actually show in in real life. pay attention to such intrusions on your thoughts.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Thank People(that’s my new replacement for the generic Thank God) that I did get those lovely “intrusive” doubts n thoughts. Saved me from a lifetime of voluntary near slavery to an imaginary bad guy
The title card for this episode (1:07) is awesome. I've been a subscriber since you released your 2nd video essay, and your production values just keep getting better and better (while also not putting so much emphasis on style that it takes the focus away from the video's actual content). As a fellow former fundamentalist Christian myself, your videos have been incredibly helpful to me on my own path of deconstruction. A thousand sincere thank yous to you from me and everyone else you've helped along the way
Wonderful talk, and that's coming from a Christian. Funny thing, I've never expected to "feel" some sort of "presence". If God wants me to "feel his presence", that's up to God, not me. However, whenever I've thought that I should give up on trusting God, that's when uncanny things happened that would draw me back.
What sort of uncanny things? I might’ve felt the same a couple of times.
@@justin2308 it wasn't a feeling. i think feelings are unreliable. it was events that took place that consistently pointed me to Jesus.
The first time, something made no sense and thought I shouldn't follow him. Immediately I went into a trance, walked over to a colleague's bookshelf, picked up a book, turned to a particular page, and started reading. when i came out of the trance, i discovered that it had addressed my concern spot on.
Other experiences were not as dramatic but they all consistently pointed me to Jesus.
Reading the book Silence (the one the movie is based on) when I was in highschool is one of the reasons for my deconvergion. It made me reflect on the fact that I have always experienced an abscence of god in my personal life but also made me think of all the horrors that ocur all over the world that none, Christian or otherwise, are spared from experiencing. The book is brilliant but it still haunts me to this day and I can't recommend it to anyone.
Yeah, as someone who used to be Christian in a place that wasn’t as accepting of it, the book really cemented my disbelief lol