As far as the wind wings on the Challengers, wind wings were experimented on each of the UP's big 3 locomotives (Big Boys, Challenger, and FEF). The idea was to try and lift drifting smoke out of the driver's view. The wind wings applied to the FEFs and some of the Challengers in passenger service proved effective due to their higher road speed while those trialled on the Big Boys and other Challengers in freight service proved ineffective due to low speeds dragging freight uphill. The result was that all of the FEFs were all eventually re-equipped with smoke wings. 4019, the only Big Boy ever fitted with wind wings, had them taken off. As far as the challengers the 4664-3 class can further be subdivided into 4664-3a and 4664-3b. The 4664-3a comprised of the first 10 members of the class and when first put in service were moved to California to work heavy passenger trains still burning coal. Once the E series of passenger diesels took over passenger work in California this class was transferred to Oregon to take over passenger work into and out of Portland from the MT (4-8-2) class. While in Oregon the 4664-3a class were all converted to burn oil and eventually all equipped with wind wings due to their primary work in the area as passenger locomotives even getting UP's two-time Grey livery used only on steam locomotives in passenger service. These locomotives eventually were repainted black, though, and once more passenger diesels were ordered and took over the rest of UP's passenger operations across the network the 4664-3a wound up working as pushers for the F series and Gas Turbines out of Ogden on the Wasatch grade until a sufficient number of GP9 and GP9B locomotives took over that role and forced them to Sherman Hill for the rest of their careers in the late 50s. They would retain their wind wings for the rest of their careers even after being taken off the passenger roster. At least 1 or 2 other members of the 4664 series of challengers were given wind wings and just kept them despite not being passenger locos (though I can't remember off the top of my head). As far as I'm aware none of the CSA class got wind wings though they were all eventually converted to burn oil and renumbered to reflect that. UP resolved the drifting smoke issue in the other locomotives by installing a smoke lifter valve in the cab which presumably used jets of steam to force the smoke coming out of the exhaust higher up into the air and away from the drivers' view.
I love the Big Boy but I highly admire and respect the 3900s. It isn't as big or as powerful, but it didn't need to be. It was built to haul freight on the plains at speed. The fundamental design principle of the 3900 was different from the other "Big" engines. The CSAs were built during a time when UP was still trying to conquer the Wasatch, something only later accomplished by the Big Boy. The 3900s came later, and by this time UP didn't need another loco to conquer the Wasatch - the Big Boy had already done it and was doing it well. What they needed now was something that could take Big Boy's tonnage once over the Wasatch Range and run with it across the plains at high speed, and do it better than a CSA. The 3900 was so designed, and it performed its intended role perfectly. While not as big or as powerful as a Big Boy but it was arguably more useful and practical than a Big Boy with its greater flexibility and higher speeds.
That's an interesting take. It's emblematic of the western roads having hills and distance to deal with, I suppose. I've read somewhere that the ideal east of Ogden was a Challenger up front, and another pushing - but can't for the life if me remember where I read it.
As far as the wind wings on the Challengers, wind wings were experimented on each of the UP's big 3 locomotives (Big Boys, Challenger, and FEF). The idea was to try and lift drifting smoke out of the driver's view. The wind wings applied to the FEFs and some of the Challengers in passenger service proved effective due to their higher road speed while those trialled on the Big Boys and other Challengers in freight service proved ineffective due to low speeds dragging freight uphill. The result was that all of the FEFs were all eventually re-equipped with smoke wings. 4019, the only Big Boy ever fitted with wind wings, had them taken off. As far as the challengers the 4664-3 class can further be subdivided into 4664-3a and 4664-3b. The 4664-3a comprised of the first 10 members of the class and when first put in service were moved to California to work heavy passenger trains still burning coal. Once the E series of passenger diesels took over passenger work in California this class was transferred to Oregon to take over passenger work into and out of Portland from the MT (4-8-2) class. While in Oregon the 4664-3a class were all converted to burn oil and eventually all equipped with wind wings due to their primary work in the area as passenger locomotives even getting UP's two-time Grey livery used only on steam locomotives in passenger service. These locomotives eventually were repainted black, though, and once more passenger diesels were ordered and took over the rest of UP's passenger operations across the network the 4664-3a wound up working as pushers for the F series and Gas Turbines out of Ogden on the Wasatch grade until a sufficient number of GP9 and GP9B locomotives took over that role and forced them to Sherman Hill for the rest of their careers in the late 50s. They would retain their wind wings for the rest of their careers even after being taken off the passenger roster. At least 1 or 2 other members of the 4664 series of challengers were given wind wings and just kept them despite not being passenger locos (though I can't remember off the top of my head).
As far as I'm aware none of the CSA class got wind wings though they were all eventually converted to burn oil and renumbered to reflect that.
UP resolved the drifting smoke issue in the other locomotives by installing a smoke lifter valve in the cab which presumably used jets of steam to force the smoke coming out of the exhaust higher up into the air and away from the drivers' view.
Correction: the 4664-4 class was the class subdivided into a and b, not the 4664-3. So 4664-4a and 4664-4b.
There is no difference. Wind wings is what UP called smoke deflectors.
Thanks for this.
I appreciate you sharing it.
@@3900Class Hey I enjoyed your videos, especially the cab ride.
I love the Big Boy but I highly admire and respect the 3900s. It isn't as big or as powerful, but it didn't need to be. It was built to haul freight on the plains at speed.
The fundamental design principle of the 3900 was different from the other "Big" engines. The CSAs were built during a time when UP was still trying to conquer the Wasatch, something only later accomplished by the Big Boy. The 3900s came later, and by this time UP didn't need another loco to conquer the Wasatch - the Big Boy had already done it and was doing it well. What they needed now was something that could take Big Boy's tonnage once over the Wasatch Range and run with it across the plains at high speed, and do it better than a CSA. The 3900 was so designed, and it performed its intended role perfectly. While not as big or as powerful as a Big Boy but it was arguably more useful and practical than a Big Boy with its greater flexibility and higher speeds.
That's an interesting take. It's emblematic of the western roads having hills and distance to deal with, I suppose.
I've read somewhere that the ideal east of Ogden was a Challenger up front, and another pushing - but can't for the life if me remember where I read it.
5:45