Did Leung Bik teach Ip Man?
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2023
- Did Leung Bik teach Ip Man?
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Very interesting findings!
Thank you.
I have watched many of your previous videos on UA-cam and always enjoy it. I do not know much about the history of Wing Chun, although I have heard about Leung Bik from the movies. Always learn so much from you Sifu!
What a great video to relaunch your channel! Look forward to more videos.
Thank You 😊
nice video, a brilliant idea. I really like the style in which the explanation is given. Very real. It feels like to be there with you.💯
Thank you Paolo 👍👊🏼
thanks a lot about it!!
Sifu Sergio is one of the most sincere practitioners and person I've seen to date. I'm looking forward to future videos!
Appreciate the words 🙏🏻
Great Video, thanks !!
You are welcome
Great Video Sifu Always follow you and i’m Just bought the last Wingchun Illustrated.😊
😊 Enjoy the read
Great video and explanation!👍
Thank you
Glad to hear you Sifu Sergio.
😊👍
I also did a lot of research about this topic and I agree, but I have found a hint, that the story about learning from Leung Bik existed already in the mid 1950s. Sifu Donald Mak writes in his book "willow in the wind" about his teacher GM Chow Tze Chun: " Sifu Chow does recall that during his discipleship Yip Man once mentioned that he learned from Leung Bik but did not elaborate further. Sifu Chow further recalls that couplets were hung in his kwoon at Lee Tat Street stating his learning from Chan Wah Shun and Leung Bik..."
The Story about Leung Bik started in the mid 1950's yes, just like the visits to Dai Dak lan
When I was doing research, Complete WCK had just been released, LT's Book was out and the VT museum was just founded. I had the first translation of the intro of Willow in the Wind by CTC done, and had numerous direct video interviews and demonstrations of many of the non famous YM students that were remaining, decades ago, which was part of a preservation project by my business partner and I alongside a financial backer. There was an entire series being worked on, that ended up falling through, due to financial backing falling out, because of the greed and everyone wanting more money than the next guy. And the backer ended up thinking everyone was insane.
In modern times I have seen some of the footage from our project surface in various ways, which always bummed me out, it wasnt able to come to fruition, in the way we had planned with videos and books for each student of Yips.
To be clear, CTC saying that, isnt a clue or hint of anything, or we could take LTs book and look at it as a billion hints to all sorts of things.
Besides, in my opinion book reading in terms of a martial art is only a jump off point. You have to compare systems in person via direct experieance.
After studying 8 different YM sub lineages and being exposed to 6 or 7 others in person, as well as the Pan Nam system, WC dao, as well as various Kulo branches, and most importantly YKS lineage, over 20 years, I jumped ship never looking back and realized that the YKS system had everything, all together, in a complete system, that was diffused and spread out in YMs. Of course its closed door for the most part, and one must spend quit awhile in the public portions of the system, even to this day.
At times I had considered contributing more to the WCK world still, but by that time Sifu Sergio was already documenting things, and I didnt see the need. And to be honest, I was tired of the hatred, negativity, greed and blindness within the community. So I retired from having anything to do with the WCK world at large, and instead invest my time in music.. And I dont want anything to do with it, as all it did was bring me suffering. I only made this post because you brought up Willow in the Wind, and to help substantiate Leung Bik being code for YKS.
Its common knowledge within the YKS and Foshan world of older times, that YM learned a substantial amount from YKS, as Mr.Yuen sr and Mr.Yip sr were friends, and after the Yip estate had been set fire to the Yuens let them live with them until they got back on their feet. Mr.Yuen asked his son to help train young Yip to help take his mind off of his woes, as well as the fact that he knew young Yip had been accepted by a very old CWS and so most of his learning came from Ng Chun So. YKS was actually in CWS generation, not Yips. And they both had the same Grandmaster. Though Sum recounts that YKS told him, he wasnt happy about it, but his Dad made him lol.
One of YKS teachers, Fung Siu Ching, was actually on the Red Boats and his first Sifu For Bo Chuen was a classmate of Leung Jan's via Wong Was Bo. So in Foshan YKS was 'the' WCK master. So LB being a code name for what he learned from YKS and at DDL isnt a new idea, and has ALOT of substance to it when examining all the various periods of Yips teachings, and how things changed and evolved,(even though in all periods there was still variation). And if this is compared and contrasted with all the other Foshan lineage time lines, lined up, theres an obviousness to it. And most importantly comparing the systems directly has many 'markers' in it. Anyways, good luck in your quest.
There is a lot of negative stories about Ip man since Leung Ting's book, roots and Branches, which started some bad feeling among other lineages whose students seem to do overtime making various claims from there is no leung bik to their teachers was Ip's real Sifu. Leung Bik has been mentioned by many sources from the time he began teaching in Hong Kong and Including Kwok Fu who trained with Ip in Foshan in the 40's! Kwok fu further mentions clearly the relationship with Yuen kay san, as he was there, Did Chi sau with both and NO he did not teach Ip man! You can see a video interview of Kwok fu saying this on youtube as well! He was mentioned by non Ip man lineages such as Chu Cheung man's story of Big mountain Shu and not to mention Leung Bik's relatives in HK today. The real question is exactly what Ip man learned. I am sure this will be deleted before people can see for themselves!
I flow you sence a long time and watched all of your videos and learned a lot about wing chun history even i done my own research abut the wing chun history and masters and always and up on the same informations you already know so thanks a lot for all the information and knowledge that opened my eyes and mind i wish i could be one of your students but unfortunately i am talent and poor can't afford even online lessons
Interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you!☯️
You are very welcome
Great to hear you back. I personally hope to hear more about the YKS system at some point.
👍 Thanks for the feedback
Nice video!
Thank you
Hello Sifu.Do you have any information on Mo Pai Kung fu under Sifu John Chang.Thank You Always.
Sergio, greetings! Thanks for your videos. I enjoy them.
On this video which discusses if Leung Bik actually taught Ip Man or not. Ip Man said so. Maybe there are reasons why he chose to omit that from his essay. An essay is not meant to be in depth they are a brief argument or opinion on a given topic usually. Just as your videos are. Sergio, it is my firm belief. We should not doubt what great and responsible teachers tell us about where they have learned and who taught them. They are passing along history. In my world, if Ip Man, my si jo, and yours, I believe, gives us the history of where he learned and from whom he learned, let's learn. Let's not question what he told us. After all it's giving credit to who is responsible for his acquired skills. I believe every word of Ip Man's history of learning wing chin and who he says taught him. Peace my brother. Keep em coming. I'm happy for what you are chronicling on video about wing chin.
Thank you so much for all that you have done for Wing Chun over the years. When one looks at all the information that you have discovered, UNcovered and collated it is truly amazing and of so much value to Wing Chun, Gung fu and history in general. Dor Jeh Sifu Sergio.
Thank you I appreciate it, the third edition of my book is coming out soon with lots of extra content over 100 pages extra
@@SifuSergioChannel Yep I paused this video and looked up the book as soon as you mentioned it. Can't wait. Thanks for replying.
I really appreciate your videos. Especially the videos where you dive a little deeper into applications of the movements within the empty hand forms
Thank you will make some of those again also
While practicing at Tsui Sheung Tin's club in Hong Kong he once mentioned Si Gong/GM IP Man learned from Leung Pik. I trust his character and Kung Fu ability. IP Ching received from his father a pressure point strike book which he donated to the Ving Tsun museum Ohio. I have seen it.
I know the so called pressure point book which is actually just a medical journal which is also held at the museum in Foshan nothing special about the journal and not specific to Wing Chun. More importantly I asked Tsui Sheung Tin about Leung Bik a long time ago and although he said that Ip Man mentioned it, he himself has never seen Leung Bik nor did he fully believe in the story. There are many more points that I did not mention in this video and will save for an eventual part 2 although I heard somebody else will also make a video on this topic which will make the obvious even more clear.
While I am here in my younger years the Wing Chun system was a mystery to me and I always relied on my teacher Victor Kan for knowledge/guidance. I got some further tips from Tsui Sheung Tin later on. From then on I have never stopped learning carrying on. I think that is the most import point is to grow what you have..I find its just like a waterwelll always filling with water.. always forever springtime new beginnings. @@SifuSergioChannel
Thankyou Sifu.I missed your expert advice and lessons.Sorry for the doubt people have had in the past.How could they ever understand this power . Excellent.Will be watching the old and new clips. Always.A little of your amazing Knowledge and journey.Thankyou.
Baz
Hes back
👍👊🏼
The new name of your channel shows us there will have 50% wing chun and 50% tai chi, I hope so, not only wing chun.
Thanks a lot for your work
Video about Taijiquan will be coming up more regularly in 2024 but it will be around 60% Wing Chun and 30% Taijiquan and then the rest about Weng Chun, Emei, Fujian White Crane
Thanks for your speed answer🙏
what if I tell you it could be a person with different name than Leung Bik but his name sounds similar ?
Tang Yik?
@@corneliusclay9501 nope
Its funny how in the movie Ip Man (The legend is born) Leung Bik its portrayed by Ip Chun the son of Ip Man who fight against the character of Ip Man 😂 anyway i always heard that story about Leung Bik and Ip Man but withouth any source to prove that fact.
Don't you think its possible that ip man excluded mentioning Leung Bik simply for clout sake? Since he wanted to create a unified wing chun association, it would've been more prestigious to mention and give credit more to his master than a fellow student or son who never made any waves of his own? For example, Even today, would you claim your masters son as your master or as an equal, as a sibling so to speak though older or younger, but still, wouldn't it be more advantageous to mention your master who already is established and recognized by other branches of wing chun family than a student or a son who stayed in obscurity? Even ip ching, son of the late great ip man, isn't given the same prestige or claim as successor to his late father. In fact, all of his late fathers students claim ip man as their only teacher and I heard some go as far as to say they taught ip ching his fathers wing chun after he died in order to survive among other things. So you see, its very plausible for ip man to have exluded leung bik as his master or teacher. Its very possible he only saw him as a another fellow brother within their same system, and share/exchange knowledge which happens a lot among many of us today. Its all speculation of course, but we cannot ignore the fact that leung bik was mentioned by ip man himself, and because of it, has sparked a major internal rivalry between his desciples over the years that is real and disgusting to watch and experience which is why many have left the system because its just to much bs and politics rather than focusing on the art and helping it grow. Its just a grab for power and control by saying who's the new successor to the grandmaster, who is not the son by the way. They all make that very clear that he is not their master. Lol! So why wouldn't ip Man have done the same to Leung Bik where leanage and name dropping is very important within the martial arts community?! Just saying, its plausible given todays same circumstances and how the tribe has turned against itself and continues to do so with every new generation.
This right here
Why not ask his two sons about that. What intrigues me is that YM was an upper class fellow that reluctantly taught HK lower class students WC to make a living the only way he could and also satisfy his opium addiction. It would be interesting to know to what extent he simplified the style to suit students only interested in trading punches in the streets of HK. Maybe the WC he originally learned was quite different and internal who knows...
I talked so many times with his sons, they got only really involved in Wing Chun after their father passed away.
Why do you think he wrote that after meeting Leung Bik? Maybe it's a text from a time when he hasn't meet him yet
Ip man died in 1972 he was already saying he studied under Leung Bik in the 1950’s and the essay he wrote is from 1966/67
@@SifuSergioChannel ok, thank you for answering
This explanation aligns pretty well with what other thinking individuals have espoused, namely that, like many great martial artists, Grandmaster Yip Man learned from many sources.
Ultimately, he evolved his own take on Wing Chun, but, being raised with traditional Chinese respect for tradition and lineage, he did not brag about his own ideas. To do so would have been deeply disrespectful to the memories of his Sifu Chan Wah Shun and his Si-Hings, Ng Chun So and Ng Siu Lo. Instead he created the Leung Bic story to deflect attention from himself and attribute his personal innovations to the forefathers of the system.
Indeed, there are some reasons why he could not mention Yuen Kay San and Dai Dak Lan, for the time he lived in and his personal situation he did the right thing. Unfortunately In present day times it contributed to lots of confusions. The late grandmaster Ip Man could never have foreseen the Fame of Bruce Lee and the resulting explosion of his lineage of Wing Chun because of it.
I am amazed that you deleted my comment from a moment ago, which was respectful and simple. Could you tell us why you deleted it? I don't understand.
I did not delete any comment, but I deleted the first upload so that can explain it, there was a mistake in the video so had to re upload the video without the mistake. Sorry for the inconvenience 🙏🏻
@@SifuSergioChannel , thanks
@@wailofoshanplease repost your original comment
@@SifuSergioChannel , I'll try later, thank you very much. Regards.
I have read one article on the same. Who is hiding behind LB
But when you learn,in Europe they have the same like EWTO. 10 Grades then 5 Grades for the Dumny. You need 10 Years to learn that. Gary Lam make that in 2 Years and always help you. Not paying extra,he goes rich like Kernspecht.
Lets put it into modern terms; if someone had learned from Wong Shun Leung and then also later learned from Ip Chun (the son of Ip Man), would they not also mention they learned from Ip Chun? Also, would there be any reason to hide learning from Ip Chun? No.. same sigung.
Sifu Sergio, appreciate if you could show what evidence you have to support this claim?
See the video I would say, and for more details read my book
In Leung Sheung lineage there is a lesser known story kinda talked about in hushed voice, that during the early days of GM YM opening a school in Hong Kong, when there were still few students learning, there was a Wing Chun guy who stopped by and easily put GM YM on his ass without effort, repeatedly, during a time that supposedly no one could touch GM YM. The guy was supposedly from his lineage but specifically NOT Leung Bik. There was a bit of a crisis or talk among the students if they should learn from him instead, but he was either just passing through or not interested in running a school, so GM YM it was. Which makes you wonder if YM continued his training from him, but just said “Leung Bik” so he couldn’t lose students to someone who couldn’t be tracked down.
Alex Richter has a video with a WC sifu explaining that Leung Bik was real and even mentions his great grandchildren and how one even lives in the US and a wiki page even gives the names of his descendants and the regions they live do you have any info to confirm these people are fakes?
@@mgk22 see my video on Leung Bik please he was real but he never ever taught Ip Man
There is no need for Ip Man to have a pretend name for Yuen Kay San.
Sergio is making things up as he goes along.
Read my book and you might think differently, but you can always choose to stay ignorant
@@SifuSergioChannel People said that Ip Man learnt from Yuen Kay San. But even the most basics of both styles are so different, suggesting that even if Ip Man learnt from YKS, it is negligible. So I don’t see any need for Ip Man to mention YKS as his Sifu. Certainly he won’t go to the extent of inventing a pretend name.
Also, within the Wing Chun circles in Foshan, YKS is known as one of the best whilst Ip Man does not even rank. If Ip Man really learnt from YKS, wouldn’t he adapt his WC to YKS style, away from what he has learnt from Chan Wah Shun/Ng Chung So?
Fun Fact: Ip man did teach Bruce Lee!
No he didn't it was wong shun leung if you don't believe it there's a letter to thank him for that
@@ShinobiNunjitsu ip man did teach him like everyone knows that
Hello,
I am a Lo Man Kam practitioner, being lucky enough to meet Sifu Lo a few times. He is nephew of Ip Man. He told us this story, telling that it was a marketing act when Ip Man moved to Hong Kong. His friends generated the story for promoting him to be the best teacher who even learnt from Leung Bik, using the ‘whispering propaganda’ which had spread it al over the city.
Thanks for the great videos, I appreciate them.
I personally think that ip man could have beaten leung bik using more power
See the video, Ip Man did not learn anything from Leung Bik, it’s a made up story and for a good reason
who cares who taught who when
Everyone but you.
Information integrity is valued. He's right. The Leung family knew Wing Chun, but did not teach it. After Leung Jan's death, the Leung family did not really care to teach Wing Chun. They have all the information recorded and documented, but some family members chose to learn it, most didn't. It's not a "pure" lineage of style. Wing Chun Kwoons are like boxing gyms... you are free to come and go. It's basically Foshan's version of street bareknuckle boxing trained with resources that were available, local Kung fu equipment.
The Leungs were mostly traditional herbal pharmacists and merchant marines during the Nationalist Era in China, Golden Triangle, Singapore, and Indonesia. The mainline of the family in Foshan neither taught Wing Chun as a hobby nor an occupation because it does not make money and it caused village feuds. However, they'll be a open source to any curious passers-bys that ask about Wing Chun if they had idle time at the pharmacy in Foshan. Like a 5 minute quick lesson for informational purposes... for anybody.
They did standarized, but not invent, the modernized formula for dit da jow to relieve muscle soreness. For bone soreness or heavy bruising they sold 7 snake oil (no longer sold outside Asia) made from snake galls from 7 poisonous snakes. That's the only connection they have to Wing Chun other than being the library source of Leung Jan's work or give a quick 5 minute lesson to clear up any informational misunderstanding. I doubt they even do that anymore. The reason they mainly did that was to advertise the pharmacy which no longer exists. If you go to Foshan today, every herbal pharmacy has both ointments and copied of Leung Jan's teachings you can buy.
And to go further yip man only taught this to William cheung who also taught his brother David cheung.
Yeah another fantasy story
@@SifuSergioChannelSo who taught William Cheung the system he teaches? Do you think he made it up and if so how do you explain the similarities in techniques and concepts to the hung fa yi system?
@@adamwoodman4477 I have the answers to that but it’s a too political topic to go into right now, I have thought about making a video about it for many years but don’t want to get involved in a political war with the William Cheung lineage.
@@SifuSergioChannel It would be so exciting to see your views and information on William Cheung. In fact I can't describe HOW exciting.
1)You are one of if not THE most respected researchers on Wing Chun in the world so I personally don't think you should refrain from doing a video on it if you think it's right to do.
2)So many Wing Chun masters respect who you are and what you do, that's why they all allow you to interview them and give you information.
3)A political war is a RESPONSE to what in this case? Thorough research, investigation and a genuine intention of preserving information and points of view. For the sake of history I think there would be so much value in seeing a video from you on this whenever you decide to do it. A political war from the William Cheung lineage is just a silly response and should just be ignored.
ANYWAY THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR WING CHUN AND GUNG FU HISTORY. Dor Jeh Sifu Sergio.
OK, thank you.@@SifuSergioChannel