Oh my God. I see certain points or observations but the spacing and precision of the quadrant I would screw up pretty quickly and I do not have cognitive issues. Under certain situations the stress of testing could be introduced as a factor. After performing the drawing the patient should be asked is there is anything they would want to change. Ms. White Coat also lends an element of stress with the medicalized setting. I took an IQ test when I was 16 and when putting together a puzzle of an elephant I placed its trunk as a tail!!! I was nervous and I new I was being "assessed". These tests need to be conducted and interpreted very carefully and I don't feel great confidence with what I see.
I agree It seems very harsh to expect an as close to perfect circle from anyone , and the spacing looked pretty ok for me Alot of people just arent good at drawing , its a bit much to expect people to be otherwise, esp going from this example
I agree. Especially the first one was very good. She drew it quickly and methodically. So what the spacing was a little off . That lady looked to be 75 or 80. I'm in my late 50s and would have done about the same. I've already lost a good bit of confidence in the medical profession ( and police) I'd hate to be drawing a stupid clock for someone to determine if I'm mentally ok. Ask me to name three objects from a few minutes ago , shoot, I'm onto something else now. I might or might not remember them.
I agree. We could also keep in mind that some older people are likely to have less fine motor skills and poorer eyesight which could be due to several reasons like medication, injuries or illnesses. That could also affect her precision. I don't think perfection should be the point. She got all the main elements of a clock correct, as the doctor highlighted. Should not matter if some numbers are a few millimeters off. I think she drew the clock well off-hand. She also did not know she would be graded based on her drawing precision such as the placing of each number or closing of the circle. Some people don't even close their 'o's or 'a's when writing.
Im a healthy individual in my 20s and I bet I would have drawn a similar image without knowing the marking. But of course, I would be able to score all 3 points perfectly if I knew what she was looking for.
Thank you, doctor, for this clarification. Please. I am a clinical psychologist. I am looking for a way to correct the test. Where can I find it? Do you have a copy?
Where are the actual efficacy studies on both the 3 word recall and clock test? I can't find actual good studies proving how this relates to cognitive function except everyone just says it does. Thanks
Come on, what does this have to do with Alzheimer? You did not say the patient has to draw a nice clock. If you told me to draw the clock, I would have done the same. Doesn't it matter if you get the numbers in the correct order and point at the correct numbers? What you are giving are points for nice looking clocks.
The whole point is they are testing how the numbers are placed, the spatial reasoning, the order the numbers are in, etc. If they tell you to give a specific time and you fundamentally don't understand what a clock is then you are going to make mistakes. This could be knowing that it's one through 12 but not understanding how to divide up a circle into 12 segments or cut it into four and then three, some of those basic mathematical reasoning skills that are fundamental can get damaged while the rest of you is working fine. You can be really intelligent and your brain damage only affects your ability to do some of these math problems which is how people know to put the six at the bottom and the 12 at top and then the three and the nine at the two sides. But you might still understand that a clock is supposed to have 12 numbers going around in a circle and so you might write them but you don't space them out enough. There's all kinds of different things that can be figured out from a couple of clock tests.
Total BS on the first lady. She did it in under 30 seconds. Pretty good I think.
Oh my God. I see certain points or observations but the spacing and precision of the quadrant I would screw up pretty quickly and I do not have cognitive issues. Under certain situations the stress of testing could be introduced as a factor. After performing the drawing the patient should be asked is there is anything they would want to change. Ms. White Coat also lends an element of stress with the medicalized setting. I took an IQ test when I was 16 and when putting together a puzzle of an elephant I placed its trunk as a tail!!! I was nervous and I new I was being "assessed". These tests need to be conducted and interpreted very carefully and I don't feel great confidence with what I see.
I agree
It seems very harsh to expect an as close to perfect circle from anyone , and the spacing looked pretty ok for me
Alot of people just arent good at drawing , its a bit much to expect people to be otherwise, esp going from this example
I agree. Especially the first one was very good. She drew it quickly and methodically. So what the spacing was a little off . That lady looked to be 75 or 80. I'm in my late 50s and would have done about the same. I've already lost a good bit of confidence in the medical profession ( and police) I'd hate to be drawing a stupid clock for someone to determine if I'm mentally ok. Ask me to name three objects from a few minutes ago , shoot, I'm onto something else now. I might or might not remember them.
I agree. We could also keep in mind that some older people are likely to have less fine motor skills and poorer eyesight which could be due to several reasons like medication, injuries or illnesses. That could also affect her precision. I don't think perfection should be the point. She got all the main elements of a clock correct, as the doctor highlighted. Should not matter if some numbers are a few millimeters off. I think she drew the clock well off-hand. She also did not know she would be graded based on her drawing precision such as the placing of each number or closing of the circle. Some people don't even close their 'o's or 'a's when writing.
so, what happens with the young people nowadays who have never used or seen a clock and therefore, don't know what it is?
2:58 That clock is actually pretty good!
Im a healthy individual in my 20s and I bet I would have drawn a similar image without knowing the marking. But of course, I would be able to score all 3 points perfectly if I knew what she was looking for.
Yes, Thank you
Thank you, doctor, for this clarification. Please. I am a clinical psychologist. I am looking for a way to correct the test. Where can I find it? Do you have a copy?
See my other comment.
Where are the actual efficacy studies on both the 3 word recall and clock test? I can't find actual good studies proving how this relates to cognitive function except everyone just says it does. Thanks
what if someone put lines out of clock?
Could you tell me about scoring for this test ...?
Where are all the other episodes
Hello Lynda, here is the link to the playlist for this series: ua-cam.com/video/8wQnhZe67-U/v-deo.html.
Come on, what does this have to do with Alzheimer? You did not say the patient has to draw a nice clock. If you told me to draw the clock, I would have done the same. Doesn't it matter if you get the numbers in the correct order and point at the correct numbers? What you are giving are points for nice looking clocks.
The first clock looked like something Picasso would draw. It looks artistic!
what does it matter how the numbers are placed
The whole point is they are testing how the numbers are placed, the spatial reasoning, the order the numbers are in, etc. If they tell you to give a specific time and you fundamentally don't understand what a clock is then you are going to make mistakes. This could be knowing that it's one through 12 but not understanding how to divide up a circle into 12 segments or cut it into four and then three, some of those basic mathematical reasoning skills that are fundamental can get damaged while the rest of you is working fine. You can be really intelligent and your brain damage only affects your ability to do some of these math problems which is how people know to put the six at the bottom and the 12 at top and then the three and the nine at the two sides. But you might still understand that a clock is supposed to have 12 numbers going around in a circle and so you might write them but you don't space them out enough. There's all kinds of different things that can be figured out from a couple of clock tests.
I agree. I drew the clock when she told the patient the instructions. My clock was NOT centered AT ALL. I wasn't told to draw a nice clock.
@@mhhmmmmhmm not trying a straight clock only gives you one or two points and doesn't count as Alzheimer's
try 23:55
What is the time civvie11
Eight ten.
It's... it's Jank O'clock.
@@jeffd.683 yayyyyyyy