I recently deleted a comment thread about this Review being a Paid/Sponsored Review... As I said in the beginning of the video, Enlightened Equipment does not Sponsor me or Pay me to review any of their products. From time to time, I am contacted and asked if I would like to "Field Test" a product and give Feedback to the company. There is no contract or agreement as to what I do with the product after I have tested it and given feedback. Sometimes I decide (on my own) to Video Review the product for my UA-cam Audience to let you guys know what I think of a piece of gear and/or recommend it. If you have Questions or Concerns on how I do my reviews, send me an email. The comment section of my videos is meant for Viewers to discuss the product and give feedback about what they think about the product. It is not meant to discuss "legalities" of how I should post my reviews. I am quite aware of how to work on UA-cam. Thanks. Hike On, Darwin
Ugh! Just got the Ghost Whisperer based on your recommendation when I saw you rocking the Torrid Apex. I like the GW and I'm sure I would like the Apex too. Thanks for reviewing this stuff for us!
The 20D fabric one seems like the perfect mid-layer. And always go hooded. You lose so much heat from your head and feet important to keep them insulated as close to your core as possible. And DWR.. these are solid. Packable. Relatively water resistant, synthetic fill.. good brand and I believe USA Made. Seems like a solid pickup for anyone from campers to through-hikers. 7D fabric wouldn’t handle brambles well.. I’d go atleast 10D
Great review! It is nice to have a review that is detail oriented and not just general statements. Thanks for sharing! Unfortunately I live in AZ so if I would a jacket I would probably melt.
My prototype has a drawstring closure on the bottom hem, I would much rather have the elastic waistband. I seem to recall mentioning that too them early on. Just like you regarding the micro cord locks on the hood/collar region, every time I sleep in mine, the micro lock cords on the waistband dig into my hips at night, so yeah, be glad you got a jacket that does not do that ;) I tried really hard to get EE to put a two-way zipper as the primary zipper. It makes selective drafting so much nicer.
Thanks for the review. I too have recently made the switch to synthetic. I’ve never been able to actually hike in a down jacket because I would got overheated real fast and then start sweating, which can get the down wet. I find synthetic breathes much better and I can actually wear it while hiking without worrying about it getting wet.
Love all your great gear reviews. They are always spot on. I'm definitely going to pick up a Torrid Apex. I'm glad to see you went with the size Medium. I was leaning towards that given the jackets run a size larger. I'm 6' 4", 185 pounds and wasn't sure if it would be big enough. Also, loved your gear reviews on the CNOC bladder and trekking poles and picked up both items. Also picked up the BRS stove. It's terrific for its weight and size. You're a one stop review house for great, light weight gear. Thank you Darwin for everything you do. Kinda bummed I missed you at Joshua Tree as I was there the same week as you. Enjoy AZ. Happy Trails :-)
Thanks KV! Glad I can help!.... I'm actually still in JT. Was just camping in the Park last night at Jumbo Rocks! We will be headed out tomorrow for Sequoia... Cheers! Hike On, Darwin
I have been using synthetic jackets since 1992. I had a custom jacket made of Climashield apex made of the same material and fill weight a few years ago. Now I am cold natured. With a long sleeve shirt I was comfortable to 21 degrees. When moving at those temps I had to remove the hood to keep from overheating.
Now lets say the jacket gets soaked. No matter how high the humidity if the rain isn't directly falling on it while wearing it it will dry in about 20 minutes. You can just about watch it drying it will dry that fast. And lets say the jacket gets a hole in it and after time whos jacket don't get holes. It will still preform at the same level. No fill pouring out of the holes like a down jacket.
Hey Darwin, awesome video! I use to have an Atom Lt (60gsm) but sold it recently and that was never warm enough for me with all of my layers (100-200 wt fleece, baselayer, and rain jacket) in 20- 30 degree weather at camp. I have a revelation quilt and love it. I choose not to purchase down due to ethical reasons. I'm looking for a new insulated layer for my CT hike this summer and am trying to decide between this jacket and the Nunatek Skaha APEX jacket in 85 gsm or 122 gsm. Both are cottage companies which I am glad to support. I am from Florida, so cold isn't necessarily in my blood... Thank you again for the review, and am looking forward to your feedback!
Hey George,did you buy the EE Apex Torrid Jacket? What size has it become? What size do you have with the Atom LT? How does it compare to the Atom? Thank you for your answer. Best regards Pipente
I'm about to spring for one of these, and I'm wondering if I should do 7D or 10D on the outside. I don't care about the 1 oz weight difference at all, and would appreciate a bit more durability. Why do you like the 7D more? Is it breathability? Note I'd be bringing a rain / wind shell too, so the coating would be unnecessary. Also one more question: do you have a recommendation for similarly insulated pants? Thanks for the videos!
Hey Darwin, Now that you appear to be gaining a new appreciation for synthetics have you given any thought to a synthetic quilt like the spirit from MLD? I am in the process of building out a new winter kit (think wet not super cold) and also have the torrid and have a spirit in the works.
I have the EE Revelation 20 and never considered synthetic. But that Feathered Friends Flicker 20 UL looks interesting. Haven't been able to find any online reviews - hint, hint :) Bueller...Bueller...
Great review and solid criticisms. I own the small hooded 10D version, and I was quite impressed with its warmth. I run pretty cold (70F is chilly unless I'm burning fats/carbs), and this got me to 40F with only a t-shirt while stationary in 30mph winds, hood down (polartek beanie on). With a mid baselayer and my Helium II I'd trust this jacket to 15F, and probably much lower, but I haven't tested it in temps that far down yet, so your mileage may vary. I'd absolutely buy this jacket again, but I do wish they did the hood shock cord better, and I do wish I could stuff it into its own pocket fully like other jackets. The wrists are a bit tight on mine, too.
Pretty nice jacket and I"m surprised by its weight. I guess not having so much stitching to create baffles helps save that thread weight and they apply it towards the insulation. I've been sporting a Zpacks micro fleece lately but this is something that seems very tempting.
I pack my down jacket (Patagonia Down Sweater) without using the interior pocket feature. Just stuff it in. The stuff sack shape creates wasted space in my pack.
Hi Darwin, love your vids! I was just thinking about a non-down jacket was well so this was very interesting. About the end of that shock cord poking your neck... it looks like the cord is just tied in an overhand knot? I wonder if you could take a small plastic bead that has a hole just big enough for the cord, drill it out partway with a bigger hole, put it on the cord, tie an overhand really tight and cut off any excess, and put a drop of glue inside, thus creating a smooth round surface covering the knot that wouldn't be irritating? Or maybe just glue the bead on, no knot required? Or put a round smooth bead of glue on the cord big enough to keep it from disappearing into the hood? Just tossing out some DIY ideas :) Of course EE should have thought of this already...
You could take some extra 10D fabric and make some covers for the shock cord. Use cuben fiber to attach the fabric cover. I guess you could sew the fabric on if you wanted to test it out....
Was looking at purchasing this jacket and found your review which are the colors I chose except I will use the yellow for the outer shell because these are WVU's colors. Thanks for sharing
Because their stuff is "Made to Order" & there is a High Demand for their stuff, they are usually pretty backed up with orders. WORTH IT though! Hike On, Darwin
After a couple of soggy raining and snowy days on pct late sept, my EE Revelation and MH Ghost Whisper were starting to get dampish. Some time ago I bought an Icebreaker wool jacket thinking that would be my non-down jacket solution. No, not really a packable jacket. I have a Torrid on order.
Would be a bit worried using 7D and even 10D with packstraps rubbing constantly on the coat over time. Great material for a sleeping bag/quilt as is breathable, maybe for light or occasional use.. Have you tried the new Patagonia Micro Puff for comparison which is 10D ripstop Pertex Quantum, water resistant and windproof DWR (264g, 9.3oz)? I think the fit of the E.E. Apex looks good and colour selection is great, better than Patagonia in those respects. I would go for a 7d interior and 20D external if it was also windproof. Shock cord collar simple fix is just to tie the working end back on to the main end so it tucks in. Can you show us how compressible it is versus your Ghost Whisperer? What about insulation shifting? Can it also serve as a good wind layer? Will hood fit a bike or climbing helmet? A good option for E.E. is to make a combination down + synthetic coat with synthetic in areas of high moisture exposure (shoulders, pits, front collar). On a side note would be excited to see the synthetic sleeping bags from Patagonia and E.E. using these compressible synthetic materials, down is still good there though as we all protect them like crazy. Cheers!
I have a Patagonia long sleeve cap4 (thermal weight grid fleece) I use in layering/sleep but still like an insulated layer like this for those lower temps/early mornings or around camp. I currently use an Arcteryx Atom LT (20D, 360g, tough synthetic, thermal wind and light rain)(love it, it's my goto) or Arcetryx Cerium LT (down + synthetic, wind and light snow) depending on conditions.
Darwin! Thanks for the review. One question: is the jacket not sweaty? Have a synthetic jacket and it sweats the hell out of me... Just wondering... Marc Krone
Hey Darwin, given that you are impressed by the synthetic material used in this jacket, is it worth researching/reviewing some synthetic quilts/sleeping bags that use the same insulation; as these will presumably also be lighter and easier to look after than their down equivalent, or are there no bags/quilts like this yet. Cheers, Rick #timeToDitchDown?
Arrowhead Equipment has some lightweight Climashield quilts. They do not compete with top end down quilts in terms of warmth to weight IMO. Not sure what else is out there. I keep hoping a synthetic alternative will come out that can compete for lots of reasons.
There is hardly anything at this price point --- IF it can provide the warmth of those other options. Most jackets that are highest rated in warmth and low weight are close to OR above $300. This is a GREAT option IF and ONLY if it provides the warmth. The lack of features are a windfall of the lower price, but things we would still like to have such as a packable pocket.
Respectfully highly disagree. All that maters to people is: 1) i need a thing 2) i can only spend X dollars 3) Within the range of prices I can afford, which will give me the best bang for the buck and function in minimum ways that I need it to. If this is a great super amazing wonderful jacket but there's an option out there that cost less and performs better, why should I care about this jacket? It's a waste of my time to consider it. I know you don't like to waste people's time. That's why we're here! So you can save us time by guiding us with your super valuable life experience. So--what you could do is review the jacket and then end it by saying... but, for this price point... I think you'd be better off going with the lighter and warmer....coat X. Or, compared to the rest of the coats I've experienced, you should consider this coat because I haven't found a coat that's lighter and warmer than this coat. See--look at this fancy table on the screen that shows various coats and prices and amount of down fill weight!! That would be super helpful info!
Brent Welborn You are totally entitled to your opinion. Though, I’d say that you do not speak for the “people”. You definitely do not speak for me. This is an opinion piece not a scientific research thesis. He can review or not review whatever he wants.
Darwin- Any feedback on the Torrid Pants? Thinking about picking some up for my winter AT section. I may just end up buying the jacket, pants, and down socks.
Hey Darwin. Great videos! Huge fan! I have a question ... do you use a selfie stick on your trail videos or do you have a trekking pole with a camera attachment on the end? Please let me know what brand/model you use. Thanks in advance!
Great review Darwin. I've been considering this exact jacket vs a few others and have been waiting to see a review. Could you give any feedback about what kind of temperatures you've comfortably taken the Torrid to compared to the Ghost Whisperer? I really need to pull the trigger on a good jacket for the colder months and this would really help me in making my decision. Thanks brother! Happy trails
Thanks for the review. Will EE be notifying you when/if the 7D version is available? Suggestion to EE, IF they are custom made to order, why not offer a shock cord/elastic option in the waste band? Additionally, placing the shock cord from the hood at the end of the hood in lieu of the inside would probably fix the discomfort issue. Keep the good stuff coming!!
Hey Darwin, and anyone else reviewing this jacket before purchase, I just unpacked my new Torrid Apex a few moments ago (03/24/2018). It appears that the design has been changed. The irritating strings on the inside of the hood/collar are no longer there.
good review. got me really interested. you went for a medium right? i have trouble deciding if i should go for a medium or small. what are your measurements? height, weight? thank you
Hello from Canada. I discovered your videos about a year ago and I am a huge fan. I have a Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer, which I love and I am thinking of getting an EE Torrid Apex. Could you tell me what size your Whisperer and OR Helium 2 Rain jackets are? I wear a large Whisperer and I am debating if I should get the large or XL Torrid Apex and Helium. Keep up the great work and thanks for your help.
What temps is this for? I read the Ghost Whisperer is only good down to 50 with just a t-shirt, which really isn't very warm. Do these lightweight down and synthetic jackets just take the place of a medium weight fleece. The advantage being the down jacket or this jacket take up much less room?
Does this thermal fleece you linked to run small since it is from the UK? I am not sure what size to get. I am 5'8" and 155 pounds. The largest they have left is a med/large. You only wear this fleece and Gortex shell and that keeps you warm at 15-20 Fahrenheit? You had -20 c listed which is -4 F.
This jacket with a lite long sleeve will take you to 21 easy. At that temp while lightly moving you will need to remove the hood. With my experience with the thermal fleece you mentioned the Torrid jacket would dry at a much faster rate.
This is a great review. Just wanted you to know just in case you tried. I contacted EE and they said that the jacket doesnt have a feature to fit into its own pocket and if you do and the zipper rips or something happens to the fabric then it isnt covered under warrenty. It still packs down small but I wouldnt recommend packing it like how uve shown. Other than that. great VIDS
Shouldn't affect temp ratings, what it denotes is "durability". 20D is more durable than 10 or 7D, you "pay" for that durability in terms of weight. For instance: 7D is 7.8oz, 10D is 8.1oz and the 20D is 9.15oz. Those are weights in a hooded medium.
7D - least durable, most breathable, least wind resistance, less water resistance, lightest. 20D most durable, not very breathable, decent water/wind resistance , heaviest. IMO, if you are getting it for backpacking, 7D is the perfect choice mainly for breath-ability under a wind/rain shell.
I've been wondering ever since you first got this jacket. You say you don't like synthetic jackets, but you've loved this one ever since you got it... what about them do you usually dislike, that this one does better? Or is it just that you had more time with it?
Hello, it has been a year since review and new hike completed PCT. What jacket are you using and most satisfied with. All your gear reviews are good information to me. I'm trying to upgrade as I can, to decrease my base weight and gear that works the best. Please give me your current recommendation. Thanks
My wife and I are planning a SOBO hike of the AT starting in June. I know you said the EE Torrid Apex would be a good choice for the thail, but if you were to go back, would you choose it or your MH Ghost Whisperer? Also, I head that you shouldnt hike in a down so it doesnt get soaked with sweat, is this true, or what do you do when hiking in the cold?
Hey Darwin, I've seen several of your videos and haven't watched one where you mention your height and weight. I am curious to know because I am typically between a M and L, favoring the L jackets because my arms are a bit longer than average. I am 6'2 and 175lbs. Would you recommend the M or L for this jacket? I am always a bit reluctant to go off of the numbers on websites as they are a great guidance system, but I'll take real feedback any day. Thanks for any response, man. Love the videos.
I have been buying synthetic jackets since the mid 90s. There you would need something of no less then 5 ounce weight climashield. That jacket with a long sleeve tshirt is good to 21 degrees with little wind. With wind not enough. In the Whites in winter that would not be enough. Hope that helps.
Darwin onthetrail, I’m surprised you say the Torrid is lighter than the Ghost Whisperer. My GW weighs in at 190 g, so is significantly lighter. It’s a size M with hood.
My Ghost Whisperer (Med with Hood) weighs 8.1 oz (232g), & my 7D Torrid weighs 7.8 oz (221g), which is Lighter..... You might want to check your Scale. I always use 2 scales to verify my weights. Hike On, Darwin
Darwin, thanks for going to the trouble of listing your weights and correctly doubting my scale‘s accuracy. As it turned out, my scale was fine - I was the culprit. ;-) Must have somehow goofed up when weighing it previously (perhaps part of the jacket was touching the table), for now it weighs in at 258 g (in M). The fact that mine‘s actually heavier than yours might have to do with my having used TecWash to make it a bit more water repellent and dirt-resistant. Based on the warm-when-damp factor AND weight, I‘m definitely keen on picking up an EE. Maybe I‘ll hold off a couple more months in the hopes they figure out how to make the drawstring for the hood a bit less cactus-like. ;-)
See Wee the 'D' stands for Denier which is a thickness measurement of the yarn in the fabric weave. Supposedly the measurement is based off the thinnest silk yarn you can possibly create at 1D. So in real terms it denotes the overall fabric thickness. 7D is the lightest available I know of in synthetics fabrics and was developed maybe less than 10 years ago, it was first made for a sponsored fast mountain climber (forget his name sorry). For comparison; typically your average sleeping bag fabric is 20-30D thick, sleeping pads are 30-75D thick, lightweight tents used to average out at 30D thick (Tarptent, MSR, etc) but 15D thick is a new ultralight trend, and lightweight backpack materials tend to be 75-350D thick. You drop in thickness to save weight, but loose abrasion and tear resistance.
Mark Eldridge that's a good question. Short answer is I don't know and I don't have personal experience. Maybe Darwin can chime in. It's fair to assume that thinner fabric allows more airflow, but it would all come down to the tightness of the weave, and thinner threads can equate to a tighter weave. So the reverse could be true, in that 7D might breathe the least. We would need more info on the weave. D or Denier only denotes the yarn thickness and not the construction method.
My Torrid Apex is Warmer than any other Down Jacket I have had to date! Which Really Surprised me! I've always been on the fence about Synthetic Insulation, but the Torrid made me a Believer in it! Hike On, Darwin
I contacted EE about this jacket and if you can use a pocket as a stuff sack. This was there response: "The pockets on our Torrid APEX Jacket are not reinforced and we do not recommend using them as a stuff sack" which for me is a deal breaker. I hope EE fixes this soon.
Yeah, I really do like the Self Stuff pocket. I'm sure the jacket will go through changes as more feedback comes in.... That's always how it works! Hike On, Darwin
I suppose having it self-pack in a pocket would be cool, but I just cram my Ghost Whisperer into a tiny, left-lover stuff sack - and that only if the weather is looking wet (and if not wearing my GW under my rain shell because of the cold and rain). Otherwise I‘m not bothered by stuffing it into some otherwise unfolded nook or cranny in my pack. The missing pocket for packing doesn‘t bother me at all. But of course, different strokes...
Hey Darwin :) i´m thinking about getting the Women's Torrid APEX Jacket Custom size m or l for females. but i´ve got quite long arms and i can not try out the jacket. do you have experience with the sleeve fit?
I"d love to go for this but worried about sizing.... I have bigger shoulders and slimmer waist and usually go with a large to fit my shoulders and armpits. I hear it runs on the larger size?
I bought this jacket and received it the other day. It's seriously amazing, WAAAAAY warmer than the 7-8oz down jackets out there, seriously not even a competition. I feel like they have it mislabeled on the website though. They advertise it as being half size larger, but the one I received was AT LEAST a full size bigger. I'm usually a M/L so I thought the medium would be perfect but it's laughably big. Pretty disappointing, guess I'll try and exchange it for a small. 5'10" 160 pounds, shouldn't have to buy a small, but I digress.
For backpacking, I'm trying to decide between 20D and 10D on the outer layer, durability/water resistance vs. Breathability/comfort respectively ... any suggestions/suggestions?
@@DrJosh2 i didn't go with 7D, I have 7D on my inner material of my Torrid jacket and it feels good. I'm unsure I'd feel comfortable with a 7D on the quilt. I was hanging it on bushes and other objects to dry it out and so the stronger material resists tears better. Just imo.
Hey Darwin, I believe I’ve read through all the earlier comments. I’m curious how tall you are and your weight? I’ve had bad luck buying jackets on the internet and they are to large. I’m 5’11”-155lbs, would a small be the best fit in your opinion? I understand not all body types are the same, I just don’t want it to loose. Also, I get tickled reading some of the comments. I’m amazed how opinionated ppl can be about something they’ve never even touched. Through aside the fact that you’ve been using it for months, they still know more about the jackets and you do. AND, many of them don’t even have any kind of content on their channel. Trolls I guess? Sad...
I had no idea they made a jacket. I love their quilts, now I'm really tempted to give this a shot. Thanks for the review, I never would have known otherwise!
There are a dozen other jackets on the market just like this one and they all have the same flaw; no usable pockets when wearing a pack. Rab, Montane and Montbell all make very similar ones with large chest pockets at about the same price. They also have fleece material on the inside of the chin/face area so the cold nylon is not right against your skin. Small extras like these make the EE jacket seem overpriced to me.
No offense @Darwin onthetrail but if they're giving you that stuff I'm not too inclined to believe these are unbiased reviews. You have some experimental stuff in ur post AZT too. Who can afford this stuff to buy and review, but I don't see you reviewing other stuff, just the stuff enlightened equipment sends you. Where you sent the Ghost Whisperer too?
I bought this jacket because of this review. I had a hard time trying to decide on the size. I went with a medium although I ALWAYS wear lg everything. It fits pretty good over a large cotton Levi shirt. I was worried about moving in it but it seems to have plenty of room were it counts and feel no restriction when I reach up, out or anyway which way. The arms are long and the stretch band at the waist and wrist is plenty tight. Maybe too tight at the wrist but I think that will work for me in the long run. I measured myself per their sizing recommendations and was 43 at the chest and went with that. The medium was "up to" 44 ". At 5'11" 180 pounds I was so worried the dang thing would be too small. I think I am glad it fits like it does :
Another one of these jackets that zip up through the collar. Please somebody make a jacket that doesn't do that. You always have this big gaping hole when you don't have to zip it up all the way through collar and hood. Also, it's too shiny.
I recently deleted a comment thread about this Review being a Paid/Sponsored Review... As I said in the beginning of the video, Enlightened Equipment does not Sponsor me or Pay me to review any of their products. From time to time, I am contacted and asked if I would like to "Field Test" a product and give Feedback to the company. There is no contract or agreement as to what I do with the product after I have tested it and given feedback. Sometimes I decide (on my own) to Video Review the product for my UA-cam Audience to let you guys know what I think of a piece of gear and/or recommend it. If you have Questions or Concerns on how I do my reviews, send me an email. The comment section of my videos is meant for Viewers to discuss the product and give feedback about what they think about the product. It is not meant to discuss "legalities" of how I should post my reviews. I am quite aware of how to work on UA-cam. Thanks.
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin onthetrail well said!
No worries. Doing great - "Now - go DO - that VOODOO - that you DO - so wellll!" Anyone guess the movie :)
Steve Faculak III Labyrinth!
Ugh! Just got the Ghost Whisperer based on your recommendation when I saw you rocking the Torrid Apex. I like the GW and I'm sure I would like the Apex too. Thanks for reviewing this stuff for us!
I appreciate your honest and objective review. I too would have to have more pockets and storage pocket, especially for that price! Thanks!
The 20D fabric one seems like the perfect mid-layer. And always go hooded. You lose so much heat from your head and feet important to keep them insulated as close to your core as possible.
And DWR.. these are solid. Packable. Relatively water resistant, synthetic fill.. good brand and I believe USA Made.
Seems like a solid pickup for anyone from campers to through-hikers. 7D fabric wouldn’t handle brambles well.. I’d go atleast 10D
Great review! It is nice to have a review that is detail oriented and not just general statements. Thanks for sharing! Unfortunately I live in AZ so if I would a jacket I would probably melt.
AZ is actually where I tested it!
Hike On,
Darwin
Awesome! How often are you in AZ? I am always looking to head out on hikes with friends and would love to hit the trail
My prototype has a drawstring closure on the bottom hem, I would much rather have the elastic waistband. I seem to recall mentioning that too them early on. Just like you regarding the micro cord locks on the hood/collar region, every time I sleep in mine, the micro lock cords on the waistband dig into my hips at night, so yeah, be glad you got a jacket that does not do that ;) I tried really hard to get EE to put a two-way zipper as the primary zipper. It makes selective drafting so much nicer.
Killer Info & Feedback John.... It's funny everyone likes something just a little different.
Hike On,
Darwin
John Abela I
An elastic waistband would be better.
Thanks for the review. I too have recently made the switch to synthetic. I’ve never been able to actually hike in a down jacket because I would got overheated real fast and then start sweating, which can get the down wet. I find synthetic breathes much better and I can actually wear it while hiking without worrying about it getting wet.
I'm starting to def become a believer in Synthetic!
Hike On,
Darwin
Love all your great gear reviews. They are always spot on. I'm definitely going to pick up a Torrid Apex. I'm glad to see you went with the size Medium. I was leaning towards that given the jackets run a size larger. I'm 6' 4", 185 pounds and wasn't sure if it would be big enough. Also, loved your gear reviews on the CNOC bladder and trekking poles and picked up both items. Also picked up the BRS stove. It's terrific for its weight and size. You're a one stop review house for great, light weight gear. Thank you Darwin for everything you do. Kinda bummed I missed you at Joshua Tree as I was there the same week as you. Enjoy AZ. Happy Trails :-)
Thanks KV! Glad I can help!.... I'm actually still in JT. Was just camping in the Park last night at Jumbo Rocks! We will be headed out tomorrow for Sequoia... Cheers!
Hike On,
Darwin
I have been using synthetic jackets since 1992. I had a custom jacket made of Climashield apex made of the same material and fill weight a few years ago. Now I am cold natured. With a long sleeve shirt I was comfortable to 21 degrees. When moving at those temps I had to remove the hood to keep from overheating.
Now lets say the jacket gets soaked. No matter how high the humidity if the rain isn't directly falling on it while wearing it it will dry in about 20 minutes. You can just about watch it drying it will dry that fast. And lets say the jacket gets a hole in it and after time whos jacket don't get holes. It will still preform at the same level. No fill pouring out of the holes like a down jacket.
I agree with Darwin. I would prefer a draw cord around the waist.
No more zipper pockets! MORE ZIPPERS MEAN MORE WEIGHT!! I like that there is only one zipper.
All great points David! Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwn
Still want your stoveless setup and meal thoughts.
Coming Soon Steve!
Hike On,
Darwin
Thoughtful comprehensive review Darwin. Thanks
Thanks Deb!
Hike On,
Darwin
I find my rain jacket is perfect in spring summer and fall. Im gonna grab this down jacket. Thanks bro
It really is a Killer Jacket! I hope EE eventually releases the 7D Version for the public!
Hike On,
Darwin
Hey Darwin, awesome video!
I use to have an Atom Lt (60gsm) but sold it recently and that was never warm enough for me with all of my layers (100-200 wt fleece, baselayer, and rain jacket) in 20- 30 degree weather at camp. I have a revelation quilt and love it. I choose not to purchase down due to ethical reasons. I'm looking for a new insulated layer for my CT hike this summer and am trying to decide between this jacket and the Nunatek Skaha APEX jacket in 85 gsm or 122 gsm. Both are cottage companies which I am glad to support. I am from Florida, so cold isn't necessarily in my blood...
Thank you again for the review, and am looking forward to your feedback!
Hey George,did you buy the EE Apex Torrid Jacket?
What size has it become?
What size do you have with the Atom LT?
How does it compare to the Atom?
Thank you for your answer.
Best regards Pipente
I'm about to spring for one of these, and I'm wondering if I should do 7D or 10D on the outside. I don't care about the 1 oz weight difference at all, and would appreciate a bit more durability. Why do you like the 7D more? Is it breathability? Note I'd be bringing a rain / wind shell too, so the coating would be unnecessary.
Also one more question: do you have a recommendation for similarly insulated pants?
Thanks for the videos!
I can't speak highly enough of my EE quilt, so its great to see the same quality in their jackets. I'm very tempted to get one on my next USA visit.
I love all their stuff! Tim & the Crew really deliver some Top Notch Quality!
Hike On,
Darwin
Hey Darwin, Now that you appear to be gaining a new appreciation for synthetics have you given any thought to a synthetic quilt like the spirit from MLD? I am in the process of building out a new winter kit (think wet not super cold) and also have the torrid and have a spirit in the works.
Yeah I have! Thinking about diving into some more Synthetic Gear within the next year.
Hike On,
Darwin
I have the EE Revelation 20 and never considered synthetic. But that Feathered Friends Flicker 20 UL looks interesting. Haven't been able to find any online reviews - hint, hint :) Bueller...Bueller...
Great review and solid criticisms. I own the small hooded 10D version, and I was quite impressed with its warmth. I run pretty cold (70F is chilly unless I'm burning fats/carbs), and this got me to 40F with only a t-shirt while stationary in 30mph winds, hood down (polartek beanie on). With a mid baselayer and my Helium II I'd trust this jacket to 15F, and probably much lower, but I haven't tested it in temps that far down yet, so your mileage may vary. I'd absolutely buy this jacket again, but I do wish they did the hood shock cord better, and I do wish I could stuff it into its own pocket fully like other jackets. The wrists are a bit tight on mine, too.
Pretty nice jacket and I"m surprised by its weight. I guess not having so much stitching to create baffles helps save that thread weight and they apply it towards the insulation. I've been sporting a Zpacks micro fleece lately but this is something that seems very tempting.
I was really surprised by the weight too! I didn't think they would be able to make it so light for a Synthetic jacket!
Hike On,
Darwin
I pack my down jacket (Patagonia Down Sweater) without using the interior pocket feature. Just stuff it in. The stuff sack shape creates wasted space in my pack.
do you like your Patagonia Puffy ?
@@julien7980 I dunno about Matt but I love my Patagonia Puffy!!!
Hi Darwin, love your vids! I was just thinking about a non-down jacket was well so this was very interesting. About the end of that shock cord poking your neck... it looks like the cord is just tied in an overhand knot? I wonder if you could take a small plastic bead that has a hole just big enough for the cord, drill it out partway with a bigger hole, put it on the cord, tie an overhand really tight and cut off any excess, and put a drop of glue inside, thus creating a smooth round surface covering the knot that wouldn't be irritating? Or maybe just glue the bead on, no knot required? Or put a round smooth bead of glue on the cord big enough to keep it from disappearing into the hood? Just tossing out some DIY ideas :) Of course EE should have thought of this already...
You could take some extra 10D fabric and make some covers for the shock cord. Use cuben fiber to attach the fabric cover. I guess you could sew the fabric on if you wanted to test it out....
On the fence to order. I have an email in about sizing. Looking at other options as well.
Was looking at purchasing this jacket and found your review which are the colors I chose except I will use the yellow for the outer shell because these are WVU's colors. Thanks for sharing
Have you dared to take in next to a camp fire? Do you know how resistant to hot embers it is? Great review!
Is it as warm as the ghost whisperer?
I asked them last week if these would be ready before December, unfortunately they won't be.
Because their stuff is "Made to Order" & there is a High Demand for their stuff, they are usually pretty backed up with orders. WORTH IT though!
Hike On,
Darwin
After a couple of soggy raining and snowy days on pct late sept, my EE Revelation and MH Ghost Whisper were starting to get dampish. Some time ago I bought an Icebreaker wool jacket thinking that would be my non-down jacket solution. No, not really a packable jacket. I have a Torrid on order.
Would be a bit worried using 7D and even 10D with packstraps rubbing constantly on the coat over time. Great material for a sleeping bag/quilt as is breathable, maybe for light or occasional use.. Have you tried the new Patagonia Micro Puff for comparison which is 10D ripstop Pertex Quantum, water resistant and windproof DWR (264g, 9.3oz)? I think the fit of the E.E. Apex looks good and colour selection is great, better than Patagonia in those respects. I would go for a 7d interior and 20D external if it was also windproof.
Shock cord collar simple fix is just to tie the working end back on to the main end so it tucks in.
Can you show us how compressible it is versus your Ghost Whisperer? What about insulation shifting? Can it also serve as a good wind layer? Will hood fit a bike or climbing helmet? A good option for E.E. is to make a combination down + synthetic coat with synthetic in areas of high moisture exposure (shoulders, pits, front collar).
On a side note would be excited to see the synthetic sleeping bags from Patagonia and E.E. using these compressible synthetic materials, down is still good there though as we all protect them like crazy.
Cheers!
I have a Patagonia long sleeve cap4 (thermal weight grid fleece) I use in layering/sleep but still like an insulated layer like this for those lower temps/early mornings or around camp. I currently use an Arcteryx Atom LT (20D, 360g, tough synthetic, thermal wind and light rain)(love it, it's my goto) or Arcetryx Cerium LT (down + synthetic, wind and light snow) depending on conditions.
Oooo... excellent idea (20/7)! And questions re: helmets, wind. Anybody have answers?
have you tested the Micro Puff ? what do you think about it ? Thinking to get one for my PCT
Great video and information. Thank you.
No Prob Leslie! Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin! Thanks for the review.
One question: is the jacket not sweaty? Have a synthetic jacket and it sweats the hell out of me...
Just wondering...
Marc Krone
Isn't the 7D-Version more susceptible to abrasion at the backpack straps?
Hey Darwin, given that you are impressed by the synthetic material used in this jacket, is it worth researching/reviewing some synthetic quilts/sleeping bags that use the same insulation; as these will presumably also be lighter and easier to look after than their down equivalent, or are there no bags/quilts like this yet. Cheers, Rick #timeToDitchDown?
No time to "Ditch Down" but I will definitely be looking into Synthetic Gear a lot more in the future!
Hike On,
Darwin
Arrowhead Equipment has some lightweight Climashield quilts. They do not compete with top end down quilts in terms of warmth to weight IMO. Not sure what else is out there. I keep hoping a synthetic alternative will come out that can compete for lots of reasons.
A lot of choices out there for $175, maybe you should discuss that aspect.
Um... Yep there sure is. However this is a Specific Review on this Jacket, not a General Jacket Video.
Hike On,
Darwin
How much out there competes at this weight in this price range.
There is hardly anything at this price point --- IF it can provide the warmth of those other options. Most jackets that are highest rated in warmth and low weight are close to OR above $300. This is a GREAT option IF and ONLY if it provides the warmth. The lack of features are a windfall of the lower price, but things we would still like to have such as a packable pocket.
Respectfully highly disagree. All that maters to people is: 1) i need a thing 2) i can only spend X dollars 3) Within the range of prices I can afford, which will give me the best bang for the buck and function in minimum ways that I need it to. If this is a great super amazing wonderful jacket but there's an option out there that cost less and performs better, why should I care about this jacket? It's a waste of my time to consider it. I know you don't like to waste people's time. That's why we're here! So you can save us time by guiding us with your super valuable life experience.
So--what you could do is review the jacket and then end it by saying... but, for this price point... I think you'd be better off going with the lighter and warmer....coat X. Or, compared to the rest of the coats I've experienced, you should consider this coat because I haven't found a coat that's lighter and warmer than this coat. See--look at this fancy table on the screen that shows various coats and prices and amount of down fill weight!! That would be super helpful info!
Brent Welborn You are totally entitled to your opinion. Though, I’d say that you do not speak for the “people”. You definitely do not speak for me. This is an opinion piece not a scientific research thesis. He can review or not review whatever he wants.
Darwin- Any feedback on the Torrid Pants? Thinking about picking some up for my winter AT section. I may just end up buying the jacket, pants, and down socks.
Hey Darwin. Great videos! Huge fan! I have a question ... do you use a selfie stick on your trail videos or do you have a trekking pole with a camera attachment on the end? Please let me know what brand/model you use. Thanks in advance!
Good review. But I'm curious how you'd rate the warmth of this jacket as compared to the Ghost Whisperer. Is it as warm? Cooler? Warmer?
Great review Darwin. I've been considering this exact jacket vs a few others and have been waiting to see a review. Could you give any feedback about what kind of temperatures you've comfortably taken the Torrid to compared to the Ghost Whisperer? I really need to pull the trigger on a good jacket for the colder months and this would really help me in making my decision. Thanks brother! Happy trails
i'm also curious of how the 2 compare for temp. i have a GW jacket that i want to trade out because it doesn't fit quite right.
Thanks for the review. Will EE be notifying you when/if the 7D version is available? Suggestion to EE, IF they are custom made to order, why not offer a shock cord/elastic option in the waste band? Additionally, placing the shock cord from the hood at the end of the hood in lieu of the inside would probably fix the discomfort issue. Keep the good stuff coming!!
Love the videos, was curious what’s the color combo on your personal 7D jacket? I dig it!
Keep on trekking on!
Nice review on a nice product. Thanks!
Hey Darwin, and anyone else reviewing this jacket before purchase, I just unpacked my new Torrid Apex a few moments ago (03/24/2018). It appears that the design has been changed. The irritating strings on the inside of the hood/collar are no longer there.
good review. got me really interested. you went for a medium right? i have trouble deciding if i should go for a medium or small. what are your measurements? height, weight? thank you
Darwin, you say you like the jacket, but the real question is will it be replacing you GWhisperer jacket in everyday hiking use?
he can't answer that... it's only a jacket review, not a general jacket video! *wink wink darwin*
Hello from Canada. I discovered your videos about a year ago and I am a huge fan. I have a Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer, which I love and I am thinking of getting an EE Torrid Apex. Could you tell me what size your Whisperer and OR Helium 2 Rain jackets are? I wear a large Whisperer and I am debating if I should get the large or XL Torrid Apex and Helium. Keep up the great work and thanks for your help.
Great review. Thanks
What temps is this for? I read the Ghost Whisperer is only good down to 50 with just a t-shirt, which really isn't very warm.
Do these lightweight down and synthetic jackets just take the place of a medium weight fleece. The advantage being the down jacket or this jacket take up much less room?
downcopperheadroad. Is this from experience or you opinion? The Climashield apex is warmer and packs better and certainly dries faster. Much faster!
Does this thermal fleece you linked to run small since it is from the UK? I am not sure what size to get. I am 5'8" and 155 pounds. The largest they have left is a med/large.
You only wear this fleece and Gortex shell and that keeps you warm at 15-20 Fahrenheit? You had -20 c listed which is -4 F.
This jacket with a lite long sleeve will take you to 21 easy. At that temp while lightly moving you will need to remove the hood. With my experience with the thermal fleece you mentioned the Torrid jacket would dry at a much faster rate.
This is a great review. Just wanted you to know just in case you tried. I contacted EE and they said that the jacket doesnt have a feature to fit into its own pocket and if you do and the zipper rips or something happens to the fabric then it isnt covered under warrenty. It still packs down small but I wouldnt recommend packing it like how uve shown. Other than that. great VIDS
How did the jacket stand in the washing machine test? :)
Darwin, what does the 7D vs 10D vs 20D mean for weight and temp ratings? I'm unfamiliar with it
Shouldn't affect temp ratings, what it denotes is "durability". 20D is more durable than 10 or 7D, you "pay" for that durability in terms of weight. For instance: 7D is 7.8oz, 10D is 8.1oz and the 20D is 9.15oz. Those are weights in a hooded medium.
7D - least durable, most breathable, least wind resistance, less water resistance, lightest. 20D most durable, not very breathable, decent water/wind resistance , heaviest. IMO, if you are getting it for backpacking, 7D is the perfect choice mainly for breath-ability under a wind/rain shell.
You never talked about durability? How durable is the fabric?
Hey Darwin, love your videos. Would you consider replacing your down jacket and rain jacket with the torrid?
My down Jacket, but not my Rain Jacket!
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin, what is your rain jacket? Brand, model? Thanks.
Do they make a women’s specific? Didn’t see that option available.
I don't think so... All of their products are "Uni-Sex".
Hike On,
Darwin
Renae, EE just came out with a women's version!
enlightenedequipment.com/womens-torrid-apex-jacket
I've been wondering ever since you first got this jacket. You say you don't like synthetic jackets, but you've loved this one ever since you got it... what about them do you usually dislike, that this one does better? Or is it just that you had more time with it?
Hello, it has been a year since review and new hike completed PCT. What jacket are you using and most satisfied with. All your gear reviews are good information to me. I'm trying to upgrade as I can, to decrease my base weight and gear that works the best. Please give me your current recommendation.
Thanks
How warm is this jacket? Can it be used for winter hiking?
Hay Darwin, how windproof is this jacket? Do you need to add a shell to windproof it?
Hello Darwin ! Is this jacket Breathable ?
Does the ghost whisperer or the torrid pack down smaller?
My wife and I are planning a SOBO hike of the AT starting in June. I know you said the EE Torrid Apex would be a good choice for the thail, but if you were to go back, would you choose it or your MH Ghost Whisperer? Also, I head that you shouldnt hike in a down so it doesnt get soaked with sweat, is this true, or what do you do when hiking in the cold?
have you (or someone) tried Micro Puff from Patagonia ? in Europe (France) not easy to test EE.
Hey Darwin, I've seen several of your videos and haven't watched one where you mention your height and weight. I am curious to know because I am typically between a M and L, favoring the L jackets because my arms are a bit longer than average. I am 6'2 and 175lbs. Would you recommend the M or L for this jacket? I am always a bit reluctant to go off of the numbers on websites as they are a great guidance system, but I'll take real feedback any day. Thanks for any response, man. Love the videos.
I'm built similar, 6'3" 180lbs. Did you end up getting the jacket? If so do you recommend a size?
I live up in new hampshire and want to get some winter hiking in up in the whites. Do you think this would be good winter layer for under a shell?
I have been buying synthetic jackets since the mid 90s. There you would need something of no less then 5 ounce weight climashield. That jacket with a long sleeve tshirt is good to 21 degrees with little wind. With wind not enough. In the Whites in winter that would not be enough. Hope that helps.
But is it a sweaty jacket?
Why do you prefer the 7D version?
Lighter!
Hike On,
Darwin
How do you think the warmth to weight ratio compares to a similar down jacket?
The Torrid is actually "Warmer" than my Ghost Whisperer Down Jacket & weighs less. It totally surprised the hell out of me!
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin onthetrail, I’m surprised you say the Torrid is lighter than the Ghost Whisperer. My GW weighs in at 190 g, so is significantly lighter. It’s a size M with hood.
My Ghost Whisperer (Med with Hood) weighs 8.1 oz (232g), & my 7D Torrid weighs 7.8 oz (221g), which is Lighter..... You might want to check your Scale. I always use 2 scales to verify my weights.
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin, thanks for going to the trouble of listing your weights and correctly doubting my scale‘s accuracy. As it turned out, my scale was fine - I was the culprit. ;-) Must have somehow goofed up when weighing it previously (perhaps part of the jacket was touching the table), for now it weighs in at 258 g (in M). The fact that mine‘s actually heavier than yours might have to do with my having used TecWash to make it a bit more water repellent and dirt-resistant. Based on the warm-when-damp factor AND weight, I‘m definitely keen on picking up an EE. Maybe I‘ll hold off a couple more months in the hopes they figure out how to make the drawstring for the hood a bit less cactus-like. ;-)
What size did you go with?
Great review..
whats the 10D / 20D rating referring to? don't know what that is
See Wee the 'D' stands for Denier which is a thickness measurement of the yarn in the fabric weave.
Supposedly the measurement is based off the thinnest silk yarn you can possibly create at 1D. So in real terms it denotes the overall fabric thickness. 7D is the lightest available I know of in synthetics fabrics and was developed maybe less than 10 years ago, it was first made for a sponsored fast mountain climber (forget his name sorry).
For comparison; typically your average sleeping bag fabric is 20-30D thick, sleeping pads are 30-75D thick, lightweight tents used to average out at 30D thick (Tarptent, MSR, etc) but 15D thick is a new ultralight trend, and lightweight backpack materials tend to be 75-350D thick.
You drop in thickness to save weight, but loose abrasion and tear resistance.
does denier affect the breathability? For example, would a 7D be more breathable than a 20D?
Mark Eldridge that's a good question. Short answer is I don't know and I don't have personal experience. Maybe Darwin can chime in.
It's fair to assume that thinner fabric allows more airflow, but it would all come down to the tightness of the weave, and thinner threads can equate to a tighter weave. So the reverse could be true, in that 7D might breathe the least. We would need more info on the weave. D or Denier only denotes the yarn thickness and not the construction method.
M
I've been on the fence about one of these, only thing holding me back is that I'm worried it will not he as warm as a down jacket.
My Torrid Apex is Warmer than any other Down Jacket I have had to date! Which Really Surprised me! I've always been on the fence about Synthetic Insulation, but the Torrid made me a Believer in it!
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin onthetrail You’d compare it to your old Marmot 800 Fill jacket? As far as warmth?
I contacted EE about this jacket and if you can use a pocket as a stuff sack. This was there response: "The pockets on our Torrid APEX Jacket are not reinforced and we do not recommend using them as a stuff sack" which for me is a deal breaker. I hope EE fixes this soon.
Yeah, I really do like the Self Stuff pocket. I'm sure the jacket will go through changes as more feedback comes in.... That's always how it works!
Hike On,
Darwin
I suppose having it self-pack in a pocket would be cool, but I just cram my Ghost Whisperer into a tiny, left-lover stuff sack - and that only if the weather is looking wet (and if not wearing my GW under my rain shell because of the cold and rain). Otherwise I‘m not bothered by stuffing it into some otherwise unfolded nook or cranny in my pack. The missing pocket for packing doesn‘t bother me at all. But of course, different strokes...
Hey Darwin :) i´m thinking about getting the Women's Torrid APEX Jacket Custom size m or l for females. but i´ve got quite long arms and i can not try out the jacket. do you have experience with the sleeve fit?
I"d love to go for this but worried about sizing.... I have bigger shoulders and slimmer waist and usually go with a large to fit my shoulders and armpits. I hear it runs on the larger size?
Gear review - Beard
next please
Um.... Ok?
Hike On,
Darwin
Darwin, you say you wear a medium...what is your height and weight again? I'm 6'4", 200lb.
I'm 6'1, 170lbs .... If I were you I would go with a Lrg!
Hike On
Darwin
How would you say the length is? I'm 6'6" and wonder about sleeve and body length.
What is 10D? What's 20D refer to?
It is the Denier Strength of the Fabric. 10 Denier or 20 Denier.
Hike On,
Darwin
I bought this jacket and received it the other day. It's seriously amazing, WAAAAAY warmer than the 7-8oz down jackets out there, seriously not even a competition. I feel like they have it mislabeled on the website though. They advertise it as being half size larger, but the one I received was AT LEAST a full size bigger. I'm usually a M/L so I thought the medium would be perfect but it's laughably big. Pretty disappointing, guess I'll try and exchange it for a small. 5'10" 160 pounds, shouldn't have to buy a small, but I digress.
For backpacking, I'm trying to decide between 20D and 10D on the outer layer, durability/water resistance vs. Breathability/comfort respectively ... any suggestions/suggestions?
I’m leaning toward 20D/7D combo as well, knowing how careless I am with my gear. Pretty hard to find 20D reviews - any luck?
@@DrJosh2 i didn't go with 7D, I have 7D on my inner material of my Torrid jacket and it feels good.
I'm unsure I'd feel comfortable with a 7D on the quilt. I was hanging it on bushes and other objects to dry it out and so the stronger material resists tears better. Just imo.
Hey Darwin, I believe I’ve read through all the earlier comments. I’m curious how tall you are and your weight? I’ve had bad luck buying jackets on the internet and they are to large. I’m 5’11”-155lbs, would a small be the best fit in your opinion? I understand not all body types are the same, I just don’t want it to loose.
Also, I get tickled reading some of the comments. I’m amazed how opinionated ppl can be about something they’ve never even touched. Through aside the fact that you’ve been using it for months, they still know more about the jackets and you do. AND, many of them don’t even have any kind of content on their channel. Trolls I guess? Sad...
deal breaker is no stuff pocket, or inside pocket
Nice video 😊
I had no idea they made a jacket. I love their quilts, now I'm really tempted to give this a shot. Thanks for the review, I never would have known otherwise!
Sounds pretty crinkly, does that bother you?
Nope, it's no louder than any other Down Jacket I've ever owned.
Hike On,
Darwin
Hahahaha, every time you say "postin' new photos," I hear you say "postin' NUDE photos!" Consistently makes me laugh:)
Lol same!
You failed to compare the warmth to a similar down jacket.
There are a dozen other jackets on the market just like this one and they all have the same flaw; no usable pockets when wearing a pack. Rab, Montane and Montbell all make very similar ones with large chest pockets at about the same price. They also have fleece material on the inside of the chin/face area so the cold nylon is not right against your skin. Small extras like these make the EE jacket seem overpriced to me.
Mine was stolen by a someone 2nd day I had it RIP #savestevo #apexfurlife #ripstevo
No offense @Darwin onthetrail but if they're giving you that stuff I'm not too inclined to believe these are unbiased reviews.
You have some experimental stuff in ur post AZT too.
Who can afford this stuff to buy and review, but I don't see you reviewing other stuff, just the stuff enlightened equipment sends you.
Where you sent the Ghost Whisperer too?
I bought this jacket because of this review. I had a hard time trying to decide on the size. I went with a medium although I ALWAYS wear lg everything. It fits pretty good over a large cotton Levi shirt. I was worried about moving in it but it seems to have plenty of room were it counts and feel no restriction when I reach up, out or anyway which way. The arms are long and the stretch band at the waist and wrist is plenty tight. Maybe too tight at the wrist but I think that will work for me in the long run. I measured myself per their sizing recommendations and was 43 at the chest and went with that. The medium was "up to" 44 ". At 5'11" 180 pounds I was so worried the dang thing would be too small. I think I am glad it fits like it does :
Another one of these jackets that zip up through the collar. Please somebody make a jacket that doesn't do that. You always have this big gaping hole when you don't have to zip it up all the way through collar and hood.
Also, it's too shiny.
Phat neck