7:20 Reminds me of the Annihilator I built in Mechwarrior 3. It turns out, 7 ER PPCs firing at once is the secret to unlocking the star hidden in the middle of your 'mech and letting it wash the world around you in Atom's purifying glow.
That's the only thing I could think of to do to make it any kind of useful, except as a distraction. And even then it is still mediocre at best, as it lacks armor or speed to be of real use, as it dies so fast.
@@Dang_Near_Fed_Upwhich is why I also proposed stealth armor in my rebuild. Hiding makes the armor less likely to be tested and found wanting. It also allows more time to line up shots to make limited round number count.
This is a homebrew variant, but I'm baffled that its not an official variant because it improves on the basic IS Hunchback in every way but armor (and its only a 7 point difference in the 4G's favor). Swap the UAC20s and two tons of ammo for two UAC10s and four tons of ammo. Upgrade to FF and add an extra two tons to armor. This gives it the total damage equivalent of two AC20s (assuming all four shots hit), and you get the +4 damage and extra range from the ERMLs; with the added benefit of bring the heat down to 26. This gives it a BV of 1,683 and a cost of 7,792,000 C-bills The fact that this isn't a variant, but there are ones with HLLs and RACs confuses the frak out of me.
Yeah, in Roguetech, I see uac10 clans more often than stock builds. First Huncie I ran into, was the dual uac20 build. A pair of Hammer mechs with allies opened and killed it with ammo explosion and a Stackpole that wiped it's bodyguard vehicles (srm carrier and lrm carrier respectively) Weren't much clan salvage after. Those Hammers torched two more with combined salvos (headshots x 2 and torso destruction -> incapacitated pilot) near full good salvage there. My lights, with TSM and spiked boots/talons double legged the last guy. Of course I had 3/12 salvage so no full mechs or tanks. I took all the clan gear I could. 😊
It does make complete sense in the clanner weirdo mindset, you're either going to win big or die hard. Such things like logistics, battlefield sustainability, making lower-caste nobody mechanics upset by the damage done to it is a really very tertiary concern to the average clan mech warrior who will just turn around and look at you going "Other People's Problems". I mean, they gave you a HB2C so you turned up with it when asked, shot someone up and got shot up in the process is pretty much the extent of their job responsibility. Provided they didn't get a face full of ER-PPC or eject and land in a swamp- that's also pretty much the extent of their idea of what normal people call personal consequences.
As I am fond of saying: "There is a Hunchback for every occasion." The Original 4H and 4G variants are your iconic dakka-brawling boom-pow with an excellent, utterly unambiguous eye-level firing position for their main cannon, the 4J is there acting as Archer Jr. (which is by no means bad), the 4P and its absolutely terrifying simple but effective combination of medium laser spam, and the 4-SP for glorious, hardcore SRM brawling. ...And then the Clans made the Hunchback IIC for something entirely different: For the inner sphere, it's giving mech commanders and pilots the mech equivalent of a Chupacabra; a nightmarish monster that comes out of seemingly nowhere to devour you and your kin before you can react. But for the Clans, it served the dual functions of first, being Clan's Valhalla Retirement Delivery Package for old warriors incapable of doing much else but dying in glorious combat, and being engineered to beat the "metagame" of Clan's obsession of using Trial-By-Combat to resolve every stupid little thing. For this, it trades speed, armor and ammo to become the single most outrageously upgunned medium mech in the franchise. Speaking from a purely operational standpoint in Mechwarrior, well, there's a lot to say about the HBK-IIC. The first big thing that the IIC line does far better than any of its Inner Sphere Succession-War counterparts is the addition of Jump Jets. I cannot overstate just how important these things are to short-range ambush-style mechs. To wit, the comparison to the Urbanmech is most apt, as the Hunchback IIC takes the design pihilosophy of the little ol' Urbie and pushes it to its limits. Being able to jump away into difficult or unusual terrain creates many opportunities to use the Assault-Mech weapons loadout on some poor victim. Now, onto the bad. Beyond the absolutely pitiful armor scheme and mediocre speed, the main complaint I have are the primary weapon pods on the shoulders. While they are SUPERBLY positioned vertically, they protrude far too much forward and consequently act as a giant pair of blinders for the cockpit. Worse, protracted fire tends to blind the cockpit with smoke and other weapon flashes. (I recommend Clan Gauss Rifles over the UAC-20s for this very reason) This singular problem forces the HBK-IIC frame into adopting one of two roles: Close-Range Ambusher or Corridor Sniper. While it excels at either role in ways even Clan Heavies often fail to, it fares VERY poorly in any protracted engagement due to its limited ammunition, weak armor and in combined-arms engagements, its poor visibility also becomes a liability vs swarms of light and medium vehicles zapping you from underfoot. (bad pilots rely solely on their instrumentation for situational awareness anyway; these are mechs, not aerospace fighters) Other later variants of the IIC move towards more traditional attrition-based combat and brawling with the occasionally suicidal weapons loadout (presumably just to remind pilots of what mech they're driving), but I find there are better mechs to handle these roles elsewhere, including other Inner Sphere variants of the Hunchback. Because, again...there's a Hunchback for every occasion.
@@MechanicalFrogYeah, well. Succession War dakka mechs tend to lean that way no matter how you slice it. Having recently talked to a long time BT tabletop player, I've been told it's why the HBK-4P is considered one of the safest, best medium IS mechs for the 3025 era while its O.G. big cannon cousins in the 4G and 4H families are "walking ammo detonations".
The way Goonhammer put it is on-point - “Take this mech if you want to send yourself and your opponent to god, same day shipping…this Mech sends a ****ing message” My WIP Clan Project is nicknamed Clan Meth Weasel, and this lunatic is the mascot
@MechanicalFrog salvaged a pair in a MegaMek ATB campaign. Added gauss rifles and dropped the lasers for more armor. Keep them on the back line to guard a Thunder Hawk and that lance is pure murder. Edit: It's a IIC, why not give it the Warhammer treatment and make it a jump capable heavy mech? 70t, more armor, more heatsinks, bigger XL engine... Like you said, it would make the others look bad. Lol.
They're primarily issued to Solahma units looking to go out with a bang. Giving them big, expensive, long-range space guns might prove to the Clans that being old isn't an insurmountable obstacle.
The OG configuration is definitely a perfect example of a glass cannon in the game. This is another one of those mechs that has a very narrow scope of use. But if you can get it in that scope, you can get a hole in one. And if nothing else, make sure you have the auto eject on 🙂.
I wouldn't be surprised if Clanners "forgot" to install an auto-eject on this machine. You're either coming back from a glorious victory or not at all.
I am pretty sure there is not an auto-ejection system in the Hunchback IIC Prime given that it is there to send old warriors without bloodnames to the hereafter so they will not become a burden on Clan Society. Remember: Wastefulness and inefficiency are among the greatest sins in Clan society.
@@Sierra026 LOL yeah, good point. You also have to hope you don't ricochet off one of those massive cannon housings on the way out, if you do eject. And as a Clanner the shame of surviving an ejection is almost worse than death itself in their minds.
I did not know about the ATM version. That is a terrifying 108 damage potential with HE rounds. That and the RAC version: all hail his holy RAC, may its BRRRTTTT sing thee to thy rest. Is it the most damaging, no, is it fun, for me yes.
Another GREAT vid for the collection, Frog! This is the first review of the Hunchback 2C that I've ever seen... Hard to believe that the good folks who brought us world-ending wrecking machines like the Marauder 2C and the Warhammer 2C (clans) made...this... I can't help but feel the burning question churning up inside - "What were they thinking..."? This mech is the ED-209 (Robocop, 1997) of the Battletech universe! - "I had a guaranteed military sale with the Hunchback 2C! Renovation programs! Spare parts for 25 years! WHO CARES if it WORKED or NOT"! - Dick Jones - Omni Consumer Products
@@MechanicalFrog NO argument there! I'm just left thinking that it was probably a Friday evening, the designers and engineers were all tired after working long hours all week...they all wanted to go home...possibly a holiday weekend...perhaps many were catching flak from their families for being away at the office too much... Who knows! Whatever the case, NOT their best work!
surprisingly every time I've run a Hunchback IIC in TT Battletech it comes out untouched in every match not so much for my opponent I don't know if my Trueborn Clan Pilots are either extremely lucky or exceptionally cursed
Chicago-borne clanners be like: "We're gonna make him a batchall he can't refuse, give 'em the Hunchback 2, C? You'll be sleepin' with the freebirths, myea."
Well its a hunchback that would be enough for me. But its clan so its a pass but then it gets bonus points for being this "Swan Song" type of assignment which makes it cool again. I can see the 'Witness me!!!' yell from Mad Max Fury Road as you leap out of the brush firing wildly. Then overheat, explode or just fall down xD Good times may follow.
This is one of those mechs that’s absolutely better in Mechwarrior than it is in Battletech, due to a real person aiming. The IIC-C from MWO which swaps out the UAC/20s for 10s, adds 2 more MLs and more ammo, is a pretty great hill peeker due to the high mounted ACs
@@ghoulbuster1 MWO is more akin to a movie like "Shoot Em Up" where insane plot armor is applied to make worthless mechs survivable, than true Battletech. Sadly many people never know just how much MWO slants the game to help some mechs and against others.
Though there are actual nuances of combat allowed by it being real time and factoring things like weapon positioning. Just barely peeking your cannons over cover is playing smart in a way tabletop doesn't allow.
The mech for people who like to narrow volley their overloaded torpedoes. On the bright side no game will go past 3 rounds so you can get to the snack bar early.
I adore gimmick Mechs. To me, they reflect Battletech at its best - when all the talk of pragmatism and sound tactical decisions are thrown out of the window, and instead we ask "what would make the best story?" And what does make the best stories? Those glorious moments when pin your hopes on a Hail Mary and go for it! Sure, you are going to fail spectacularly a lot of the time, but when you finally do achieve the dream of wasting an Assault Lance with a few turns of frantic autocannon fire it will all be worth it.
If you have been around for a while, you know to take the AC/20's reputation to be a one-shot mech killer with more than a grain of salt. I'm sure you ran up to a Grasshopper or an Awesome, put in three shots and figured the other guy was still standing, tearing you apart in the process. Heavier mechs can sometimes soak multiple AC/20 shots without dying. So the Hunchback IIc can go down taking one or two enemies, but in some cases the net result is zero and another Clanner gets all the glory for taking out one more inferior Spheroid. At the end of the day it's a suicide machine, the equivalent of the Capellan penal battalion where they figure you can take out a mech if send in enough convicts with pole mines.
@@tomarmadiyer2698 no see I don't think you understand what I mean, Egor was a hunchbacked assistant to Dr Frankenstein, Egor wasn't really of any use, same as this mech 😂
the hunchback iic is the best clan mech ever made in every way that matters, he has 2 big guns, 10 shots (i cant even count that high), he solos goku, he ball
@@MechanicalFrog Well, I think in the Phoenix Hawk IIC's case had they called it the Charger IIC, I might have been more favorable to it. But as a reimagine of the Phoenix Hawk, it does not work. Even then, I haven't found much use for it. There's never been an instance where I've had the choice between a PHIIC and, oh say, a Penthesilea and the Penthesilea hasn't managed to outperform the Phoenix Hawk IIC, despite being a 10 ton lighter IS mech. And the worse part is I can't quite put my figure on why.
For me any IIC has never fit my playstyle in any game. Can't speak for TT bc I don't play TT. But every time I could choose a IIC, an Omni or just an IS and pay similar money for all I'd choose an IS or an Omni.
Eh, the PHawk IIC LRM variant is fun, especially in the ilClan Era. Dump 80 LRMs downrange for twelve turns, then once your ammo runs dry, it’s DFA time!
Why do we love the Hunchback IIC... Because it is the ideologically supreme mech clanners can pilot into battle. The near total lack of endurance, short range and weak armour is symbolic of their notions of logistics. And as everyone knows, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. You have a moment of glory, then you're gone. You become a "no drek, there we were" story told in bars and smokepits for years. It really is the only mech they need, everything else shows doubt and fear. I'd rather drive a Panther. Or an Archer.
Great vid. Thx. Never tried tabletop but I am a huge Hunchback fan since Mechcommander Gold. "Show yourself my little...Sh*t...Ejecting-Ejecting-Ejecting"
Hey Frog. The Hunchback has always been a 'friendly' Mech in my experiences on the tabletops. Yes, it cannot go toe to toe against most of the Heavies and Assaults and win, but with a bit of modification once one has access to Clan tech, it can become a terrifying presence in battle. My first 'mod' of this design carries 4 ER Medium Lasers, and a pair of Ultra-AC 20's, with 5 shots per AC. It is armored like most, with only the CT able to take a direct hit from the larger weapons types, but it does move at 4/6/4. And those four jump jets come in very handy for maneuvering in the somewhat tight confines of cities and other urban areas. The 'refit' of the above design loses 2 of the Lasers, in favor of additional ammo for its guns, giving the Mech 10 shots per gun. As an aside, I designed the Mech so that one ER Medium Laser is in each torso, located directly next to the original ammo bin, so that swapping the laser out for another bin of ammo would be fast, cheap, and easy for the Mech-Techs to perform. And finally, a further 'refinement' of the IIC... the addition of TSM. One of my 'brighter' ideas in retrospect. To explain... in a battle against a Clan foe, my units fell back into a town and defended the site from the attackers. The Smoke Jaguars had not seen my IICs yet, as I had carefully led their forces to pursue me into the town, and kept my Hunchbacks in cover. Arrogant as usual, the Jaguars ran in to cripple and destroy my 'smaller' force. Figuring that, I must have had a substantial force of light Mechs that would flank around and attack from their rear. Instead, my forces fell back to the town's central plaza and turned to fight. The Jaguars ran in to 'kill' my forces, and were promptly 'boxed in' by Hunchbacks leaping the surrounding buildings and into their rear arcs. This did not really cause concern to the Jaguar player, who concentrated on taking down my heaviest Mechs, before polishing off the rest of the 'lighter' forces. My star of Hunchback IICs marched into close range and unloaded into the Jaguars. Killing four Mechs in the first volley. I chose to 'kill' the lightest Mechs first, reducing the number of opponents available to shoot back at my forces. The attacking player shrugged, and kept on with his 'plan'. It was then that my Hunchbacks closed the distance to point-blank range and fired Alpha Strikes, followed by TSM enhanced punches. The other player called 'foul' and called for a GM to adjudicate the issue. I had figured this would happen, and had both my Mech Record Sheets, and the listing of the calculations needed to build the design. The GM looked over my design, did a bit of math to follow my thought process, and declared the Mechs to be 'legal'. And thus, my Hunchbacks cored several of his largest Mechs, and then punched hard enough to either totally cripple them, or in some cases, rip out the entire internal structure of the Mech in that location. 2 AC-20 shots to the same location, followed by at least one TSM enhanced punch, were more than enough to 'destroy' any Mech. And we all know how lightly most Jaguar Mechs are armored. Battle Results: Total destruction or capture of all enemy forces. My own losses were less than five Mechs.
The IIC 4 does have 1 additional ton of armor and having nearly double the range of the Ultra 20s and larger ammo reserves (40 shots per gun) does help a bit, even with the drop of potential damage. But honestly, 12 double heatsinks are more than adequate for the design, unless outside forces or jump jets are used with an Alpha strike (full burst RAC/5s do 6 points of heat and ER Mediums do 5, giving a full burst Alpha Strike 22 points of heat generation)
"We love it because it's absurd and proud of it" *circles this in bright red and taps the sign* Yes this all of this. The HB IIC is the closest thing to a crazy ork unit a Mech can get and every one who's played it has a wildly insane story.
@MechanicalFrog Absolutely. Makes them faster. Get better jump distance. Purple is also a good option for getting those sweet sweet back armor shots for the UAC/20's
I was having a really rough start to the day with a severe migraine as I was trying to get packed & out the door for a 5 hour drive & 12 hour work shift. I was counting on this to lift my spirits, but the Clans kicked me while I was down. An awesome Hunchback IIC shouldn't be that hard. I need to crunch the numbers, but I would be more than happy with a Clan tech 4P. Maybe a pair of clan ER medium lasers & 6 med pulse lasers with some x2 heat sinks & ferrofibrous & I'm good to go! I haven't used a IIC on the tabletop (&likely won't!), but from MW I don't recall disliking the HBK. Anyways thanks for this uncomfortable, but honest video Frog. I hope the next one is more positive, but it's probably going to involve us losing some NEC characters we have grown to love. 😂
I have a horror story. I had 6 IS battle armor units 3 Fa Shih Battle Armor [MG], 2 Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser], 1 Fa Shih Battle Armor [TAG], and Demolisher Heavy Tank (Arrow IV) in a suburban setting. Verses Hunchback IIC, 2 Adder's, and 3 Elemental Battle Armor [MicroPL]. Started out good. Tag unit got one of the Adder's down with a Tagged head location with riding Elemental unit with the Arrow IV. Hunchback IIC wasn't detected yet just the two Adder's. The rest jumped on the other Adder and engaged the riding elemental unit on top of it in a glorious melee brawl on top of the moving mech. That's when the Hunchback IIC shows up with LBX20 whipes out the Tag unit in one shot. Then started to swat way the other battle armored units off the mech. 2 IS-BA jumped to the Hunchback IIC after while one left behind plants the tandum charge on the cockpit and go boom killing everyone on the Adder and the mech it self. With the Tag unit out the Demolisher had to get in LOS. At that point it was 2 BA left on the two units VS. 3 elementals. The mech won the intuitive JJ over to get behind it and slammed it in the rear with LBX20 and 3 MED pulse lasers. When it jumped the all the BA and Elementals fell off. Two of the Elementals fell to their deaths and the IS BA's and the 1 elemental survived landing on the same roof top. Poor Elemental took a direct SRM-OS and died and the Hunchback IIC finishes IS BA off with the LBX20.
Ohoho, I was waiting for this one! *Rubs hands eagerly* The Hunchback IIC is pretty much the "Warhammer 40k Ork" of the Battletech Clan 'mechs. It may win. It may lose. But damned if you try and ignore it. It will leave an impact. One way or another. Even if that impact is in the form of a crater where it once stood. The outcome will either be glorious, funny, or both combined. Edit: Does the Hunchback IIC/II have three or four large heavy lasers? I thought I heard you mention four, but the readout on the screen says three.
I love the Battletech Universe for its sometimes crazy designs. The Hunchback IIC is a Glasscannon and has the same BV as 2 SRM Carriers. (8 to 4 Million C Bills and less logistics needed) So there already is a very capable unit for City Fights that is compareably cheap and reliable but there is a need for a Mech with not 1 but 2 Ultra AC20s. I love the BT Universe for this because it feels so beliveable. People do make stupid stuff.
I love unique mechs and the fact that everything isn't min/maxed to perfection. It's far more realistic in a universe where not everyone has access to the best equipment and you work with what you have.
I drew one of these at Gen Con this year and got randomly dropped in the middle of a melee. I stood still and rained fire onto my friend and hit with everything and both ACs hit so I did do 94 points of damage to a single mech. I lasted one round cause someone got behind me but it was a memorable round.
This sounds like it might be dangerously close to having a practical battlefield application and I'm not sure if most Clans allow that sort of thinking.
Late comment but, I was taking my friends through a narrative Battletech campaign, starting from late 3015 to Tukayyid. By the later stages, we had a bunch of really good mechs, including a Nightstar acquired through exciting salvage. At one point, we were fighting Smoke Jaguar and the clan had rolled a Hunchback IIC. Halfway through the battle, I'm using the Nightstar to aggressively push a flank when I forget that a Hunchback IIC has jump jets. It proceeded to jump directly behind my Nightstar and unloaded a full salvo that killed my poor mech instantly. It was glorious
I agree with you entirely on the IIC hunchback :-) its horrible if it actually gets to shoot you but it dies so often...i almost ignore it to the point where its getting too close lol....great overview
There's a slight error at 7:07. Instead of Ultra AC 20's you said Ultra AC 2's. Not a big issue, just got me thinking about if you could strap Ultra 2s into a Hunchback IIC and have it still conform to it's original vision. (Some quick theory crafting tells me you could fit five UAC2's with two tons of ammo if you drop a heat sink. Seems like a "reasonable" Hunchback IIC build to me)
I have good memories with my hunchback 2c in mw5. Mine had a pair of er ppc’s which change the mech completely but that punch was absolutely invaluable in my hangers.
An idea, even if it'd take more funding than needed and jaunts around the known 'verse : Dbac-10's, super charger, two Er M lasers. Whatever space left over isn't used for armor, add CASE. maybe even a laser AMS. Using bloody dove's BTA3062 as best reference- zero experience at table top. Just trying to find a way to make things a little better. Then again if only we could fill those shoulder ports with plasma-ppc's. Thanks for doing these vids!
It's a mech with an unmatched ability to defend and hold a position for the tonnage. It's mere existence in an urban or entrenched position is something any sane person would fear having to advance on. Especially when supported. Its a battlemech that cannot afford to be ignored at any point in time. Though, it mech that only fits an incredibly niche set of circumstances unless you're customizing it. Shoutouts to the twin guass.
It can make anyone back down, but it is let down by the ammo capacity. Sure, throw this at the rear of an assault lance, and it will put fear into them, while also probably downing at least the biggest one, but when those bins run dry, it will be beaten into a scrap heap. Assuming that the armor holds out longer than the ammo bins.
It's really only bad if you go All In on any one weapons system. A 50 ton mech doesn't need twin AC 20s or 3 heavy large lasers or 3 ATM12s but if you mix and match these systems (I have one with an LBX-20 and an ER large) you get a vastly more balanced and useful machine
This mech was my go-to choice for the Solaris VII fights in MW4: Mercs. This thing can go toe to toe with assault mechs with a good chance at winning if you know what you're doing.
I faced two of These buggers once. City fight, my whole setup was comprised of Light and mediums, with two demolisher tanks. When i realised they had paperthin armour i almost regreted firing two U/AC 20 at them. Almost...
The Hunchback IIC 5 is the better variant, though I would've used ER Medium Lasers so I could increase the ammo and armor levels by a ton each. However, that isn't what I did with my Hunchback IIC ISM variant, though I did use the 5 as a base. I dropped the loadout completely in order to mount a pair of HAG/20s with 2 tons of ammo each, to ER Medium Pulse Lasers, and 2 tons devoted to increasing the armor which was exchanged for Ferro Fibrous instead of the standard. And amazingly enough, while I retained the Jump Jets I avoided adding a partial-wing to it, which would have created difficulties of its own that I didn't want to deal with. At this time.
A even more practical variant than a dual guass one. A hunchback IIC with a gauss rifle with 2 tons of ammo on one side and 2 LPLs on the other which drops the 2 ER medium lasers for a acceptable amount of armor. Can also drop the 12th heatsink for more armor if running slightly hot when running or jumping is acceptable to the design team
I'd only double fire one of the acs if the to hit numbers where good if at all. I found it lasted longer than expected on the battlefield. Usually, positioning kept it from feeling to threatening and thus keeping it alive so it could control a small section of map giving me less explosive advantages. I guess I'm not aggressive enough lol.
I always dedicate a couple of LRM 20 volleys to these jerks when i see them. They are usually pretty easy to pop and stay out of range of, but hit FAR too hard just to ignore.
Idk how it translates to TT, but narrative & video game wise, the best use of a IIC is for the 4P that killed it long before the IIC got into range to salvage the clan Tech out of the IIC and upgrade itself. Only thing better than a 4P is a heat neutral 4P with jump jets. Which I guess is just the 5P.
Duel UAC10 with ERMLs would have made more sense. Put extra tonage into ammo, which is not as big of issue with UAC10 vs UAC20, and armor. Doubles the output of the original hunch back at longer range and for more turns
Sime 'mechs are ride or die. The Hunchback IIC is ride *and* die. More seriously, it's a 'mech I love not because of it's place on the battlefield, but it's place in the lore. On the table, it's specialised to the point of uselessness, but that's the point. It's there for that final charge, either receiving a glorious end that absolves all prior sins or dying in ignominy, so ignoble that the only good thing about you is that your passing didn't waste a valuable Omnimech. It's a design that illustrates the Clan mentality incredibly well, even if it's a deathtrap.
Would be great if you could, at some point in the time, go over the mad cat family tree from original to the IV. There are some nice mechs in there and most of them show up for big events in the lore. Keep on keeping on with the great content 🦾
I like the Hunchback IIC because it's silly. But if you can get lucky, and position it well so that it is a pain to hit, you might just get a kill on their star mech. It is a gambit, high risk, mid rewards, but you might just get a fun story out of it. and if that's not how you play games, to have a fun story to tell, I'm not sure what to tell you.
There are 3 ways to survive on the battlefield. 1 - Armor (shake it off kid you're gonna be fine), 2 - speed / mobility (it doesn't hurt, if they can't land the punch in the first place), 3 - Stealth (see 2 above). The Hunchback IIC has NONE of these, it's ONLY hope is to instakill it's opponent before the opponent lands a hit on this travesty of a mech. Of all the Clan mechs I would likely rate this as the absolute worst, as both a concept and in execution. It's slow for a medium, it's got the armor of a light, lacking ammo for even a moderate duration encounter, and to my opinion no redeeming qualities at all outside of city defense duty where you have to make the asinine battleplan of allowing the enemy into the city before you engage them. The best thing I can think of to say about the Hunchback IIC is that it can be a good source of salvage after it gets put down quickly.
The Hunchback IIC is such an extreme design, one has to wonder what went through the minds of its designers, aside from bullets. It is capable of dishing out a HUGE amount of damage in a minimal time frame but then is left without ammo and barely enough firepower worth mentioning. At least for its weight class. Still, i like to see a more balanced approach, swap the Ultra 20s for Ultra 10s and additional ammo, you get more range and become an outstanding gunner mech. Well, outstanding for a medium. Oh yes, that Rotary version would be good as well. But, at least in MWO where the autocannons don´t have a 10 second cooldown, my 4xUAC2 can prove DEVASTATING XD.
If I were redesigning, I'd just drop one of the UAC20s and invest in armor, ammo, and create a mech that is still quite deadly, but not quite so helpless.
With so many other clan mechs getting a bump up in tonnage compared to their IS counterpart, I’m surprised this one didn’t. Imagine if it had couple more tons of armor and was slightly faster 🤷🏻♂️
Imagine if they had merely used Clan tech to outfit the standard Hunchback with Endosteel, FF armor, and Double heatsinks. Without touching the weapons load out, except to use Clan variants of the same weapons. That alone would allow for a big boost in armor tonnage, and made a much better mech than the IIC piece of trash we see here. But I would go a step further and replace the AC20 with a Gauss Rifle to eliminate heat issues entirely and add ranged attack to the mech as well.
I just got a hunchback IIC miniture and I was looking forward to getting its stats from you so I could make a record sheet...then I heard you say 6 tons of armor for a 50 ton mech and I damn near flipped my table. LOL bruh...Ill just make my own mech. smh
Unsure if intentional, but you referred to the RAC version as the "Hunchback 4C-4", and the Laserboat variant as "4x Large heavy lasers" while listing only 3x in the text.
"I say Gunslinger is that the up and coming chap frog over there by the crosswalk?" "Why I do believe so, yes" "Oh let's get him!" *drives up to frogs exosuit* "Oh frog!" *frog gives most wholesome smile and wave with exo arm* "I DISAGREE!" *drives off in Hannah Barbara car noises*
@@MechanicalFrog hahaha! I can literally bring any old joke and this frog will work with me, I love it, this and the content keeps pulling me back in like my name was Al Pacino.
The Hunchback llC is one of those mechs that just looks Soo Kewl. So of course it's to be popular. That is until you realize it's a walking death trap. I'm surprised they didn't make a reasonable change to twin ultra ac10's take that weight savings and add more ammo and armor. You'd have better range and more protection. Though the idea of twin RAC 5's is tempting. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!
This is what the IS should have done with the standard Hunchback. Put the arm mounted ML in the CT. This would make a better zombie/ brawler mech. It would give the ability to continue to alpha strike at the same time punch. With its arms, it would give it extra damage. If both torsos are destroyed, it would still have both ML and small laser to continue to fight.
@@MechanicalFrogI agree. It feels like a "hey look what we can do with clan tech" it would be a little bit better with dropping 2 DHS for 2 more tons of ammo, or better yet replace the UACs with dule gauss drop 2 DHS and give them 4 tons of ammo. But I suppose that would defeat the purpose of a last chance for honor kind of mech.
Sadly, with only two tons of AC/20 ammo, a pair of UAC/20s will burn through its ammo in two and a half volleys. Yes, getting hit by a full salvo will kill any 'Mech, but because ammo is so sorely limited, pilots have to be very sure of their shots. So they won't be firing every turn. All you need to do is successfully avoid it for a few turns and it's suddenly a bigger, slower Spider. That's the reason that you see most of the Hunchbacks in the cartoon just firing their lasers and not the ACs. :D
The hunchbot, both IS and Clan, are both kinda.....meh in my mind. The thing the hunchback does best is force the enemy to pay attention. Whatever the mechs problems, you can't ignore those big cannons, and a smart commander uses that to mold the battlefield
honestly, the best mod for the hunchback IIC is to remove the jump jets for more armor - problem solved while i enjoy my jump jets in classic - there IIC is used as a hammer against enemy units that are being distracted by other members of the star i always have 2 walking next to each other, staying in cover as possible, but they always make an entrance as some enemy blows up
I ever tell you how much I love RAC's? Yeah, I'm a Davion player. Anyways, back to the topic. I have a real hatred for this thing, going back to Mech Commander, and it only got worse with a truly horrendous variant that I ran into in BTA 3062: twin HAG 30'S.( Or maybe 40's). It was paired up with the ATM Variant. Needless to Say, my poor Nightstar was scrap after that little encounter.
We love it because not many other mechs can so much as hope to compete with the attitude let alone the role of "F that guy in particular" 😂 More seriously though, its a story generator....for better or worse.
The heavy lasers make it an oven but the pilot is the bread. I have no idea why someone thought mire than 2 would be a good idea. Maybe if it were the heavy medium lasers but thats the limit
@@MechanicalFrog well then we need to turn this into more of a sermon, we need to find like a fire and brimstone style preacher to preach the truth of the rotary autocannon from the pulpit 😀.
7:20 Reminds me of the Annihilator I built in Mechwarrior 3. It turns out, 7 ER PPCs firing at once is the secret to unlocking the star hidden in the middle of your 'mech and letting it wash the world around you in Atom's purifying glow.
Ah the hunchback IIC....a mech that could easily be fitted with dual guass rifles and be transformed from occasionally scary to consistently scary
Maybe too good...
Nice to see someone else suggest that idea.
That's the only thing I could think of to do to make it any kind of useful, except as a distraction. And even then it is still mediocre at best, as it lacks armor or speed to be of real use, as it dies so fast.
@@Dang_Near_Fed_Upwhich is why I also proposed stealth armor in my rebuild. Hiding makes the armor less likely to be tested and found wanting. It also allows more time to line up shots to make limited round number count.
@@bthsr7113 I would agree, stealth is sadly lacking from the design and could make it a much more potent killing machine.
"WITNESS ME!!!"
-- Hunchback IIC pilot, quoting an ancient Terran holovid, mere seconds before an ammo detonation
Kablooey!
“MEDIOCRE”
-The Hunchback pilot’s Star commander quoting said ancient Terran holovid.
WITNESS HIIIIIIM!!!
The trick about the IIC is that once you fire enough amount to worry about it overheating, you are already out of ammo to detonate.
They had ammo left to blow up? Substandard.
This is a homebrew variant, but I'm baffled that its not an official variant because it improves on the basic IS Hunchback in every way but armor (and its only a 7 point difference in the 4G's favor).
Swap the UAC20s and two tons of ammo for two UAC10s and four tons of ammo. Upgrade to FF and add an extra two tons to armor. This gives it the total damage equivalent of two AC20s (assuming all four shots hit), and you get the +4 damage and extra range from the ERMLs; with the added benefit of bring the heat down to 26. This gives it a BV of 1,683 and a cost of 7,792,000 C-bills
The fact that this isn't a variant, but there are ones with HLLs and RACs confuses the frak out of me.
That seems to be a commonly desired weapons swap.
that's what i did with one of mine in MWO.
Yeah, in Roguetech, I see uac10 clans more often than stock builds.
First Huncie I ran into, was the dual uac20 build.
A pair of Hammer mechs with allies opened and killed it with ammo explosion and a Stackpole that wiped it's bodyguard vehicles (srm carrier and lrm carrier respectively)
Weren't much clan salvage after.
Those Hammers torched two more with combined salvos (headshots x 2 and torso destruction -> incapacitated pilot) near full good salvage there.
My lights, with TSM and spiked boots/talons double legged the last guy.
Of course I had 3/12 salvage so no full mechs or tanks.
I took all the clan gear I could. 😊
I did something similar but with lbx10s. Both are really fun.
It does make complete sense in the clanner weirdo mindset, you're either going to win big or die hard. Such things like logistics, battlefield sustainability, making lower-caste nobody mechanics upset by the damage done to it is a really very tertiary concern to the average clan mech warrior who will just turn around and look at you going "Other People's Problems". I mean, they gave you a HB2C so you turned up with it when asked, shot someone up and got shot up in the process is pretty much the extent of their job responsibility.
Provided they didn't get a face full of ER-PPC or eject and land in a swamp- that's also pretty much the extent of their idea of what normal people call personal consequences.
It's the ethos taken to the most extreme.
"Rip & tear until it's done!" is what defines Hunchie IIC. Granted, it was created by Smoke Jags - descendants of Davionists
Heh.
As I am fond of saying: "There is a Hunchback for every occasion."
The Original 4H and 4G variants are your iconic dakka-brawling boom-pow with an excellent, utterly unambiguous eye-level firing position for their main cannon, the 4J is there acting as Archer Jr. (which is by no means bad), the 4P and its absolutely terrifying simple but effective combination of medium laser spam, and the 4-SP for glorious, hardcore SRM brawling.
...And then the Clans made the Hunchback IIC for something entirely different:
For the inner sphere, it's giving mech commanders and pilots the mech equivalent of a Chupacabra; a nightmarish monster that comes out of seemingly nowhere to devour you and your kin before you can react.
But for the Clans, it served the dual functions of first, being Clan's Valhalla Retirement Delivery Package for old warriors incapable of doing much else but dying in glorious combat, and being engineered to beat the "metagame" of Clan's obsession of using Trial-By-Combat to resolve every stupid little thing.
For this, it trades speed, armor and ammo to become the single most outrageously upgunned medium mech in the franchise.
Speaking from a purely operational standpoint in Mechwarrior, well, there's a lot to say about the HBK-IIC.
The first big thing that the IIC line does far better than any of its Inner Sphere Succession-War counterparts is the addition of Jump Jets. I cannot overstate just how important these things are to short-range ambush-style mechs. To wit, the comparison to the Urbanmech is most apt, as the Hunchback IIC takes the design pihilosophy of the little ol' Urbie and pushes it to its limits.
Being able to jump away into difficult or unusual terrain creates many opportunities to use the Assault-Mech weapons loadout on some poor victim. Now, onto the bad. Beyond the absolutely pitiful armor scheme and mediocre speed, the main complaint I have are the primary weapon pods on the shoulders. While they are SUPERBLY positioned vertically, they protrude far too much forward and consequently act as a giant pair of blinders for the cockpit. Worse, protracted fire tends to blind the cockpit with smoke and other weapon flashes. (I recommend Clan Gauss Rifles over the UAC-20s for this very reason)
This singular problem forces the HBK-IIC frame into adopting one of two roles: Close-Range Ambusher or Corridor Sniper.
While it excels at either role in ways even Clan Heavies often fail to, it fares VERY poorly in any protracted engagement due to its limited ammunition, weak armor and in combined-arms engagements, its poor visibility also becomes a liability vs swarms of light and medium vehicles zapping you from underfoot. (bad pilots rely solely on their instrumentation for situational awareness anyway; these are mechs, not aerospace fighters)
Other later variants of the IIC move towards more traditional attrition-based combat and brawling with the occasionally suicidal weapons loadout (presumably just to remind pilots of what mech they're driving), but I find there are better mechs to handle these roles elsewhere, including other Inner Sphere variants of the Hunchback.
Because, again...there's a Hunchback for every occasion.
"A Hunchback for every occasion," except surviving.
@@MechanicalFrogYeah, well. Succession War dakka mechs tend to lean that way no matter how you slice it.
Having recently talked to a long time BT tabletop player, I've been told it's why the HBK-4P is considered one of the safest, best medium IS mechs for the 3025 era while its O.G. big cannon cousins in the 4G and 4H families are "walking ammo detonations".
The way Goonhammer put it is on-point - “Take this mech if you want to send yourself and your opponent to god, same day shipping…this Mech sends a ****ing message”
My WIP Clan Project is nicknamed Clan Meth Weasel, and this lunatic is the mascot
It sure is something...
*Clan Meth Weasel*
Clan Meth Weasel.
They say that when a Hunchback II-C jumps and fires both guns at once, the mech does a backflip
Would be more interesting if it did.
How they didn't develop an up-armored 2x clan gauss rifle variant is beyond me.
They don't want to make the rest of the IICs look bad.
@MechanicalFrog salvaged a pair in a MegaMek ATB campaign. Added gauss rifles and dropped the lasers for more armor.
Keep them on the back line to guard a Thunder Hawk and that lance is pure murder.
Edit: It's a IIC, why not give it the Warhammer treatment and make it a jump capable heavy mech? 70t, more armor, more heatsinks, bigger XL engine... Like you said, it would make the others look bad. Lol.
They're primarily issued to Solahma units looking to go out with a bang. Giving them big, expensive, long-range space guns might prove to the Clans that being old isn't an insurmountable obstacle.
The OG configuration is definitely a perfect example of a glass cannon in the game. This is another one of those mechs that has a very narrow scope of use. But if you can get it in that scope, you can get a hole in one. And if nothing else, make sure you have the auto eject on 🙂.
Aff.
I wouldn't be surprised if Clanners "forgot" to install an auto-eject on this machine. You're either coming back from a glorious victory or not at all.
I am pretty sure there is not an auto-ejection system in the Hunchback IIC Prime given that it is there to send old warriors without bloodnames to the hereafter so they will not become a burden on Clan Society.
Remember: Wastefulness and inefficiency are among the greatest sins in Clan society.
@@Sierra026 LOL yeah, good point. You also have to hope you don't ricochet off one of those massive cannon housings on the way out, if you do eject.
And as a Clanner the shame of surviving an ejection is almost worse than death itself in their minds.
I did not know about the ATM version. That is a terrifying 108 damage potential with HE rounds. That and the RAC version: all hail his holy RAC, may its BRRRTTTT sing thee to thy rest. Is it the most damaging, no, is it fun, for me yes.
Good times had by all...
The Hunchback perfect form: stomping forward while spitting auto cannon shells like a boss
Another GREAT vid for the collection, Frog! This is the first review of the Hunchback 2C that I've ever seen... Hard to believe that the good folks who brought us world-ending wrecking machines like the Marauder 2C and the Warhammer 2C (clans) made...this... I can't help but feel the burning question churning up inside - "What were they thinking..."? This mech is the ED-209 (Robocop, 1997) of the Battletech universe! - "I had a guaranteed military sale with the Hunchback 2C! Renovation programs! Spare parts for 25 years! WHO CARES if it WORKED or NOT"! - Dick Jones - Omni Consumer Products
I cannot explain why the Clans would waste their resources on such a mech. It defies logic.
@@MechanicalFrog NO argument there! I'm just left thinking that it was probably a Friday evening, the designers and engineers were all tired after working long hours all week...they all wanted to go home...possibly a holiday weekend...perhaps many were catching flak from their families for being away at the office too much... Who knows! Whatever the case, NOT their best work!
Hah. I can see that.@@Star-qc4br
surprisingly every time I've run a Hunchback IIC in TT Battletech it comes out untouched in every match not so much for my opponent I don't know if my Trueborn Clan Pilots are either extremely lucky or exceptionally cursed
Maybe you have all the luck.
I think I've found a saying that fits "going into Battle expecting Death you shall surly Live, going into Battle hoping to Live you shall find Death"
Chicago-borne clanners be like: "We're gonna make him a batchall he can't refuse, give 'em the Hunchback 2, C? You'll be sleepin' with the freebirths, myea."
Correction: Hunchback IIC II "Died Honorably to a volley of LRM fire."
Well its a hunchback that would be enough for me. But its clan so its a pass but then it gets bonus points for being this "Swan Song" type of assignment which makes it cool again. I can see the 'Witness me!!!' yell from Mad Max Fury Road as you leap out of the brush firing wildly. Then overheat, explode or just fall down xD Good times may follow.
I am most disappointed that there isn’t an official Swayback IIC that swaps out the twin AC 20s for 12! ER Medium Lasers.
Maybe some day, if we're good.
That mech already is in game, it is the Nova Prime.
I gave it a Medium and Large ER Laser in each Torso Box, an LRM 5 in each wrist... And a Partial Wing!
YOU WILL BELIEVE A HUNCH CAN FLY!!!
that's just the pre-recall easy bake oven with extra steps
This is one of those mechs that’s absolutely better in Mechwarrior than it is in Battletech, due to a real person aiming. The IIC-C from MWO which swaps out the UAC/20s for 10s, adds 2 more MLs and more ammo, is a pretty great hill peeker due to the high mounted ACs
Yeah MWO really is its own universe at this point.
MWO loves high damage, and hunchies have plenty.
The low armor/ammo is compensated by skill nodes
@@ghoulbuster1 MWO is more akin to a movie like "Shoot Em Up" where insane plot armor is applied to make worthless mechs survivable, than true Battletech. Sadly many people never know just how much MWO slants the game to help some mechs and against others.
Though there are actual nuances of combat allowed by it being real time and factoring things like weapon positioning. Just barely peeking your cannons over cover is playing smart in a way tabletop doesn't allow.
The mech for people who like to narrow volley their overloaded torpedoes. On the bright side no game will go past 3 rounds so you can get to the snack bar early.
I appreciate their respect for the audience's time.
I adore gimmick Mechs. To me, they reflect Battletech at its best - when all the talk of pragmatism and sound tactical decisions are thrown out of the window, and instead we ask "what would make the best story?"
And what does make the best stories? Those glorious moments when pin your hopes on a Hail Mary and go for it!
Sure, you are going to fail spectacularly a lot of the time, but when you finally do achieve the dream of wasting an Assault Lance with a few turns of frantic autocannon fire it will all be worth it.
I knew there would be some of you in the comments. :D
If you have been around for a while, you know to take the AC/20's reputation to be a one-shot mech killer with more than a grain of salt. I'm sure you ran up to a Grasshopper or an Awesome, put in three shots and figured the other guy was still standing, tearing you apart in the process.
Heavier mechs can sometimes soak multiple AC/20 shots without dying.
So the Hunchback IIc can go down taking one or two enemies, but in some cases the net result is zero and another Clanner gets all the glory for taking out one more inferior Spheroid.
At the end of the day it's a suicide machine, the equivalent of the Capellan penal battalion where they figure you can take out a mech if send in enough convicts with pole mines.
Aff. Just not a mech I'd take into a serious fight. Especially against heavies or assaults.
It's a one hit kill if you strike the cockpit. But assuming head shots is usually not something you should base your regular battles around.
I give this mech the nickname "Egor" because he's a hunchback
ITS EYE GORE
I get this reference...
@@MechanicalFrog
It's all a setup for someone to come in and *Eridani Light Horse Laugh*
@@tomarmadiyer2698 no see I don't think you understand what I mean, Egor was a hunchbacked assistant to Dr Frankenstein, Egor wasn't really of any use, same as this mech 😂
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33
Marty Feldman commands respect
One thing that surprises me is that there is a Heavy Large laser version yet no one ever thought to mount a pair of ERPPCs onto one?
A travesty, for sure.
I love this thing. A mech that has enough ammo and armor to last for only three turns is perfect for my ADD
Hah!
the hunchback iic is the best clan mech ever made in every way that matters, he has 2 big guns, 10 shots (i cant even count that high), he solos goku, he ball
Lovely. :D
Ah, the hunchback IIC, it and the Phoenix Hawk IIC are the only IIC mech I would recommend taking the 3025 variants over the Clan variants.
Oh we will get to the Phoenix Hawk... just you wait.
@@MechanicalFrog Well, I think in the Phoenix Hawk IIC's case had they called it the Charger IIC, I might have been more favorable to it. But as a reimagine of the Phoenix Hawk, it does not work. Even then, I haven't found much use for it. There's never been an instance where I've had the choice between a PHIIC and, oh say, a Penthesilea and the Penthesilea hasn't managed to outperform the Phoenix Hawk IIC, despite being a 10 ton lighter IS mech. And the worse part is I can't quite put my figure on why.
For me any IIC has never fit my playstyle in any game. Can't speak for TT bc I don't play TT. But every time I could choose a IIC, an Omni or just an IS and pay similar money for all I'd choose an IS or an Omni.
Eh, the PHawk IIC LRM variant is fun, especially in the ilClan Era. Dump 80 LRMs downrange for twelve turns, then once your ammo runs dry, it’s DFA time!
Why do we love the Hunchback IIC... Because it is the ideologically supreme mech clanners can pilot into battle. The near total lack of endurance, short range and weak armour is symbolic of their notions of logistics. And as everyone knows, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. You have a moment of glory, then you're gone. You become a "no drek, there we were" story told in bars and smokepits for years. It really is the only mech they need, everything else shows doubt and fear. I'd rather drive a Panther. Or an Archer.
Great vid. Thx. Never tried tabletop but I am a huge Hunchback fan since Mechcommander Gold. "Show yourself my little...Sh*t...Ejecting-Ejecting-Ejecting"
Hah!
Hey Frog.
The Hunchback has always been a 'friendly' Mech in my experiences on the tabletops. Yes, it cannot go toe to toe against most of the Heavies and Assaults and win, but with a bit of modification once one has access to Clan tech, it can become a terrifying presence in battle.
My first 'mod' of this design carries 4 ER Medium Lasers, and a pair of Ultra-AC 20's, with 5 shots per AC. It is armored like most, with only the CT able to take a direct hit from the larger weapons types, but it does move at 4/6/4. And those four jump jets come in very handy for maneuvering in the somewhat tight confines of cities and other urban areas.
The 'refit' of the above design loses 2 of the Lasers, in favor of additional ammo for its guns, giving the Mech 10 shots per gun.
As an aside, I designed the Mech so that one ER Medium Laser is in each torso, located directly next to the original ammo bin, so that swapping the laser out for another bin of ammo would be fast, cheap, and easy for the Mech-Techs to perform.
And finally, a further 'refinement' of the IIC... the addition of TSM. One of my 'brighter' ideas in retrospect. To explain... in a battle against a Clan foe, my units fell back into a town and defended the site from the attackers. The Smoke Jaguars had not seen my IICs yet, as I had carefully led their forces to pursue me into the town, and kept my Hunchbacks in cover.
Arrogant as usual, the Jaguars ran in to cripple and destroy my 'smaller' force. Figuring that, I must have had a substantial force of light Mechs that would flank around and attack from their rear. Instead, my forces fell back to the town's central plaza and turned to fight. The Jaguars ran in to 'kill' my forces, and were promptly 'boxed in' by Hunchbacks leaping the surrounding buildings and into their rear arcs.
This did not really cause concern to the Jaguar player, who concentrated on taking down my heaviest Mechs, before polishing off the rest of the 'lighter' forces. My star of Hunchback IICs marched into close range and unloaded into the Jaguars. Killing four Mechs in the first volley.
I chose to 'kill' the lightest Mechs first, reducing the number of opponents available to shoot back at my forces. The attacking player shrugged, and kept on with his 'plan'. It was then that my Hunchbacks closed the distance to point-blank range and fired Alpha Strikes, followed by TSM enhanced punches.
The other player called 'foul' and called for a GM to adjudicate the issue. I had figured this would happen, and had both my Mech Record Sheets, and the listing of the calculations needed to build the design. The GM looked over my design, did a bit of math to follow my thought process, and declared the Mechs to be 'legal'.
And thus, my Hunchbacks cored several of his largest Mechs, and then punched hard enough to either totally cripple them, or in some cases, rip out the entire internal structure of the Mech in that location.
2 AC-20 shots to the same location, followed by at least one TSM enhanced punch, were more than enough to 'destroy' any Mech. And we all know how lightly most Jaguar Mechs are armored.
Battle Results: Total destruction or capture of all enemy forces. My own losses were less than five Mechs.
The Hunchback is a fun one.
The IIC 4 does have 1 additional ton of armor and having nearly double the range of the Ultra 20s and larger ammo reserves (40 shots per gun) does help a bit, even with the drop of potential damage. But honestly, 12 double heatsinks are more than adequate for the design, unless outside forces or jump jets are used with an Alpha strike (full burst RAC/5s do 6 points of heat and ER Mediums do 5, giving a full burst Alpha Strike 22 points of heat generation)
From knowing the designer of it yes it absolutely is the ultimate death of glory machine.
Heh!
"We love it because it's absurd and proud of it"
*circles this in bright red and taps the sign*
Yes this all of this. The HB IIC is the closest thing to a crazy ork unit a Mech can get and every one who's played it has a wildly insane story.
So... you're saying we should paint them red?
@MechanicalFrog Absolutely. Makes them faster. Get better jump distance.
Purple is also a good option for getting those sweet sweet back armor shots for the UAC/20's
Just had a thought about covering a Hunchback IIC with strands of teeth...
I was having a really rough start to the day with a severe migraine as I was trying to get packed & out the door for a 5 hour drive & 12 hour work shift. I was counting on this to lift my spirits, but the Clans kicked me while I was down.
An awesome Hunchback IIC shouldn't be that hard. I need to crunch the numbers, but I would be more than happy with a Clan tech 4P. Maybe a pair of clan ER medium lasers & 6 med pulse lasers with some x2 heat sinks & ferrofibrous & I'm good to go!
I haven't used a IIC on the tabletop (&likely won't!), but from MW I don't recall disliking the HBK. Anyways thanks for this uncomfortable, but honest video Frog. I hope the next one is more positive, but it's probably going to involve us losing some NEC characters we have grown to love. 😂
Sorry it couldn't be more cheerful. The next one will be more fun.
I have a horror story. I had 6 IS battle armor units 3 Fa Shih Battle Armor [MG], 2 Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser], 1 Fa Shih Battle Armor [TAG], and Demolisher Heavy Tank (Arrow IV) in a suburban setting. Verses Hunchback IIC, 2 Adder's, and 3 Elemental Battle Armor [MicroPL]. Started out good. Tag unit got one of the Adder's down with a Tagged head location with riding Elemental unit with the Arrow IV. Hunchback IIC wasn't detected yet just the two Adder's. The rest jumped on the other Adder and engaged the riding elemental unit on top of it in a glorious melee brawl on top of the moving mech. That's when the Hunchback IIC shows up with LBX20 whipes out the Tag unit in one shot. Then started to swat way the other battle armored units off the mech. 2 IS-BA jumped to the Hunchback IIC after while one left behind plants the tandum charge on the cockpit and go boom killing everyone on the Adder and the mech it self. With the Tag unit out the Demolisher had to get in LOS. At that point it was 2 BA left on the two units VS. 3 elementals. The mech won the intuitive JJ over to get behind it and slammed it in the rear with LBX20 and 3 MED pulse lasers. When it jumped the all the BA and Elementals fell off. Two of the Elementals fell to their deaths and the IS BA's and the 1 elemental survived landing on the same roof top. Poor Elemental took a direct SRM-OS and died and the Hunchback IIC finishes IS BA off with the LBX20.
Oof... rough day to be an Elemental.
Ohoho, I was waiting for this one! *Rubs hands eagerly*
The Hunchback IIC is pretty much the "Warhammer 40k Ork" of the Battletech Clan 'mechs. It may win. It may lose. But damned if you try and ignore it. It will leave an impact. One way or another. Even if that impact is in the form of a crater where it once stood. The outcome will either be glorious, funny, or both combined.
Edit: Does the Hunchback IIC/II have three or four large heavy lasers? I thought I heard you mention four, but the readout on the screen says three.
The 2C-2 has 4 Large Heavy lasers.
I love the Battletech Universe for its sometimes crazy designs.
The Hunchback IIC is a Glasscannon and has the same BV as 2 SRM Carriers. (8 to 4 Million C Bills and less logistics needed)
So there already is a very capable unit for City Fights that is compareably cheap and reliable but there is a need for a Mech with not 1 but 2 Ultra AC20s. I love the BT Universe for this because it feels so beliveable.
People do make stupid stuff.
I love unique mechs and the fact that everything isn't min/maxed to perfection. It's far more realistic in a universe where not everyone has access to the best equipment and you work with what you have.
I drew one of these at Gen Con this year and got randomly dropped in the middle of a melee. I stood still and rained fire onto my friend and hit with everything and both ACs hit so I did do 94 points of damage to a single mech. I lasted one round cause someone got behind me but it was a memorable round.
That's awesome. What a memorable moment.
Really, I think the big thing the 5 variant needed was to just replace the pulse lasers with normal ER mediums, and 2 extra tons of LBX ammo.
because even the clans had to go extreme to meaningfully improve upon the perfection that is the 4P
Tall order.
Forgot the one with dual arm 12's- a useful sweeper! Good video and yes they all generally are handicaps :)
Hah.
The epitome of the term 'glass cannon'.
Indeed.
The crazy idea I had for refitting was stealth armor and a pair of gauss rifles to shoot and scoot.
Hmm... *pondering*
This sounds like it might be dangerously close to having a practical battlefield application and I'm not sure if most Clans allow that sort of thinking.
While your at it, give it the Warhammer treatment and bump it up to 70t. More armor, more heat sinks, give it a bigger XL engine too.
@@DjornNorthfield I said refit, not rebuild or redesign. I was specifically looking at what could be done with the chassis as it stands.
Late comment but, I was taking my friends through a narrative Battletech campaign, starting from late 3015 to Tukayyid. By the later stages, we had a bunch of really good mechs, including a Nightstar acquired through exciting salvage. At one point, we were fighting Smoke Jaguar and the clan had rolled a Hunchback IIC. Halfway through the battle, I'm using the Nightstar to aggressively push a flank when I forget that a Hunchback IIC has jump jets. It proceeded to jump directly behind my Nightstar and unloaded a full salvo that killed my poor mech instantly. It was glorious
I agree with you entirely on the IIC hunchback :-) its horrible if it actually gets to shoot you but it dies so often...i almost ignore it to the point where its getting too close lol....great overview
I'm not going to say it is horrible but, it's definitely not for me. I know people out there really do love it so, to each his own.
Always a pleasure
Cheers! Have a great day!
When the alternative is being dispossessed, any mech is a good mech.
Sets a low bar.
I’m really enjoying this iic series
Thanks, it's really fun to do.
I have use a IIC in a city and found it quite useful and use no double shots and take down a lot a lot of mechs with back shots
Glad you've had luck with it.
There's a slight error at 7:07. Instead of Ultra AC 20's you said Ultra AC 2's. Not a big issue, just got me thinking about if you could strap Ultra 2s into a Hunchback IIC and have it still conform to it's original vision. (Some quick theory crafting tells me you could fit five UAC2's with two tons of ammo if you drop a heat sink. Seems like a "reasonable" Hunchback IIC build to me)
Ah, yeah that sometimes happens when I rattle on with numbers in the script.
@@MechanicalFrog No worries! I think I'd do the same in your position.
I have good memories with my hunchback 2c in mw5. Mine had a pair of er ppc’s which change the mech completely but that punch was absolutely invaluable in my hangers.
Good times had by all. Except your targets.
I come to listen and again request a crab video. Good work.
Some day, perhaps. Maybe I can cook up a Crab IIC...
We called the Hunchback affectionately "HuBa." 😄
Kablooey.
An idea, even if it'd take more funding than needed and jaunts around the known 'verse :
Dbac-10's, super charger, two Er M lasers.
Whatever space left over isn't used for armor, add CASE. maybe even a laser AMS.
Using bloody dove's BTA3062 as best reference- zero experience at table top.
Just trying to find a way to make things a little better.
Then again if only we could fill those shoulder ports with plasma-ppc's.
Thanks for doing these vids!
Thanks for giving it a go. The Hunchback IIC is an odd duck, for sure.
I love this series, I hope you will at some point cover the bane.
Pretty likely once I get done with the IICs.
@@MechanicalFrog wonderful! I'm looking forward to it! Bane-3 + ARAD lrms doesn't get enough love.
The good, old one-two-three-punch.
"I hit you, you hit the floor, I melt into slag"
I see Frog got a new TV.
The old one was taking up too much real estate.
It's a mech with an unmatched ability to defend and hold a position for the tonnage. It's mere existence in an urban or entrenched position is something any sane person would fear having to advance on. Especially when supported. Its a battlemech that cannot afford to be ignored at any point in time.
Though, it mech that only fits an incredibly niche set of circumstances unless you're customizing it. Shoutouts to the twin guass.
I'd take a Shadow Hawk IIC over A Hunchback IIC any day.
It can make anyone back down, but it is let down by the ammo capacity. Sure, throw this at the rear of an assault lance, and it will put fear into them, while also probably downing at least the biggest one, but when those bins run dry, it will be beaten into a scrap heap. Assuming that the armor holds out longer than the ammo bins.
It's really only bad if you go All In on any one weapons system. A 50 ton mech doesn't need twin AC 20s or 3 heavy large lasers or 3 ATM12s but if you mix and match these systems (I have one with an LBX-20 and an ER large) you get a vastly more balanced and useful machine
Aff. The Hunchback IIC would be a much better design with just one UAC20 and a variety of smaller weapons systems + armor.
This mech was my go-to choice for the Solaris VII fights in MW4: Mercs. This thing can go toe to toe with assault mechs with a good chance at winning if you know what you're doing.
With a little pluck and a lot of luck.
I faced two of These buggers once. City fight, my whole setup was comprised of Light and mediums, with two demolisher tanks. When i realised they had paperthin armour i almost regreted firing two U/AC 20 at them. Almost...
...almost... :D
The Hunchback IIC 5 is the better variant, though I would've used ER Medium Lasers so I could increase the ammo and armor levels by a ton each.
However, that isn't what I did with my Hunchback IIC ISM variant, though I did use the 5 as a base. I dropped the loadout completely in order to mount a pair of HAG/20s with 2 tons of ammo each, to ER Medium Pulse Lasers, and 2 tons devoted to increasing the armor which was exchanged for Ferro Fibrous instead of the standard. And amazingly enough, while I retained the Jump Jets I avoided adding a partial-wing to it, which would have created difficulties of its own that I didn't want to deal with.
At this time.
Comparing the hunchback and the hunchback IIC is like comparing Ds and DDs. Both are great, but...
My version is with 2 ERPPC 4 MPL. 16 DHS. REST IN ARMOR. LOVE IT
Sounds like a completely different mech at that point. :D
@@MechanicalFrog True, it sounds like a usable mech as well.
A even more practical variant than a dual guass one.
A hunchback IIC with a gauss rifle with 2 tons of ammo on one side and 2 LPLs on the other which drops the 2 ER medium lasers for a acceptable amount of armor. Can also drop the 12th heatsink for more armor if running slightly hot when running or jumping is acceptable to the design team
Interesting proposal.
goes from close in fighter with basically no ammo to a scary sniper. albeit it does need FF to max the armor
I'd only double fire one of the acs if the to hit numbers where good if at all. I found it lasted longer than expected on the battlefield. Usually, positioning kept it from feeling to threatening and thus keeping it alive so it could control a small section of map giving me less explosive advantages. I guess I'm not aggressive enough lol.
In certain circumstances, it can be quite effective.
I always dedicate a couple of LRM 20 volleys to these jerks when i see them. They are usually pretty easy to pop and stay out of range of, but hit FAR too hard just to ignore.
Any chance you get if they step into view.
I would take a Hunchback 4P with double heatsinks.
I wouldn't turn one down.
Idk how it translates to TT, but narrative & video game wise, the best use of a IIC is for the 4P that killed it long before the IIC got into range to salvage the clan Tech out of the IIC and upgrade itself.
Only thing better than a 4P is a heat neutral 4P with jump jets.
Which I guess is just the 5P.
Duel UAC10 with ERMLs would have made more sense. Put extra tonage into ammo, which is not as big of issue with UAC10 vs UAC20, and armor. Doubles the output of the original hunch back at longer range and for more turns
Good idea.
Sime 'mechs are ride or die.
The Hunchback IIC is ride *and* die.
More seriously, it's a 'mech I love not because of it's place on the battlefield, but it's place in the lore. On the table, it's specialised to the point of uselessness, but that's the point. It's there for that final charge, either receiving a glorious end that absolves all prior sins or dying in ignominy, so ignoble that the only good thing about you is that your passing didn't waste a valuable Omnimech. It's a design that illustrates the Clan mentality incredibly well, even if it's a deathtrap.
Gotta go sometime, I guess.
Would be great if you could, at some point in the time, go over the mad cat family tree from original to the IV. There are some nice mechs in there and most of them show up for big events in the lore. Keep on keeping on with the great content 🦾
That might be a very long video. :D
@@MechanicalFrog I’m all for it chief 👌
I like the Hunchback IIC because it's silly. But if you can get lucky, and position it well so that it is a pain to hit, you might just get a kill on their star mech. It is a gambit, high risk, mid rewards, but you might just get a fun story out of it. and if that's not how you play games, to have a fun story to tell, I'm not sure what to tell you.
Silly is a good word for it. Useful in very select circumstances.
@@MechanicalFrog I am using it in a game right now. took out a wounded highalnder and then the next round lost all of its limbs one at a time.
There are 3 ways to survive on the battlefield. 1 - Armor (shake it off kid you're gonna be fine), 2 - speed / mobility (it doesn't hurt, if they can't land the punch in the first place), 3 - Stealth (see 2 above). The Hunchback IIC has NONE of these, it's ONLY hope is to instakill it's opponent before the opponent lands a hit on this travesty of a mech.
Of all the Clan mechs I would likely rate this as the absolute worst, as both a concept and in execution. It's slow for a medium, it's got the armor of a light, lacking ammo for even a moderate duration encounter, and to my opinion no redeeming qualities at all outside of city defense duty where you have to make the asinine battleplan of allowing the enemy into the city before you engage them.
The best thing I can think of to say about the Hunchback IIC is that it can be a good source of salvage after it gets put down quickly.
It is definitely not my preferred IIC...
@@MechanicalFrog Amen to that
The Hunchback IIC is such an extreme design, one has to wonder what went through the minds of its designers, aside from bullets.
It is capable of dishing out a HUGE amount of damage in a minimal time frame but then is left without ammo and barely enough firepower worth mentioning.
At least for its weight class. Still, i like to see a more balanced approach, swap the Ultra 20s for Ultra 10s and additional ammo, you get more range and become an outstanding gunner mech.
Well, outstanding for a medium. Oh yes, that Rotary version would be good as well. But, at least in MWO where the autocannons don´t have a 10 second cooldown, my 4xUAC2 can prove DEVASTATING XD.
If I were redesigning, I'd just drop one of the UAC20s and invest in armor, ammo, and create a mech that is still quite deadly, but not quite so helpless.
@@MechanicalFrog So basically the same as me, just with shorter range and higher pin-point damage.
A good choice.
My fave Glass Cannon of the IICs
It's definitely something.
With so many other clan mechs getting a bump up in tonnage compared to their IS counterpart, I’m surprised this one didn’t. Imagine if it had couple more tons of armor and was slightly faster 🤷🏻♂️
Missed opportunity, for sure.
Imagine if they had merely used Clan tech to outfit the standard Hunchback with Endosteel, FF armor, and Double heatsinks. Without touching the weapons load out, except to use Clan variants of the same weapons. That alone would allow for a big boost in armor tonnage, and made a much better mech than the IIC piece of trash we see here.
But I would go a step further and replace the AC20 with a Gauss Rifle to eliminate heat issues entirely and add ranged attack to the mech as well.
@@Dang_Near_Fed_Upthey did. the hunchback C. they didnt use the tonnage to add that much more armor though.
The III variant is so frustrating and so close to greatness; just remove one of those ATM-12's, and you get so much more room for activities :(
It's a tin can ready to be stepped on. I wouldn't give my most hated enemy one of these. ;)
Hah. A ringing endorsement.
I just got a hunchback IIC miniture and I was looking forward to getting its stats from you so I could make a record sheet...then I heard you say 6 tons of armor for a 50 ton mech and I damn near flipped my table. LOL bruh...Ill just make my own mech. smh
It's not a mech you use for its armor. It's used to make something explode. Either your target, or you.
Unsure if intentional, but you referred to the RAC version as the "Hunchback 4C-4", and the Laserboat variant as "4x Large heavy lasers" while listing only 3x in the text.
If so, it was a flub.
its a silly boy that smacks others silly, thats why we love him
Ah yes...
Easy enough to fix - remove one of the UAC/20's, add 4 tons of armor, two SRM6's with two tons of ammo, and 3 additional heatsinks.
Aff
"I say Gunslinger is that the up and coming chap frog over there by the crosswalk?"
"Why I do believe so, yes"
"Oh let's get him!"
*drives up to frogs exosuit*
"Oh frog!"
*frog gives most wholesome smile and wave with exo arm*
"I DISAGREE!"
*drives off in Hannah Barbara car noises*
Reginold.... I disagree...
@@MechanicalFrog hahaha! I can literally bring any old joke and this frog will work with me, I love it, this and the content keeps pulling me back in like my name was Al Pacino.
My brain is full of completely useless knowledge. @@thegunslinger8806
@@MechanicalFrog i...i...my brother...I have this same problem too😭
The Hunchback llC is one of those mechs that just looks Soo Kewl. So of course it's to be popular. That is until you realize it's a walking death trap. I'm surprised they didn't make a reasonable change to twin ultra ac10's take that weight savings and add more ammo and armor. You'd have better range and more protection. Though the idea of twin RAC 5's is tempting. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!
Even just a few more tons of armor would change the game for this mech. A single Ultra AC/20 instead of two would create a much more dangerous foe.
This is what the IS should have done with the standard Hunchback. Put the arm mounted ML in the CT. This would make a better zombie/ brawler mech. It would give the ability to continue to alpha strike at the same time punch. With its arms, it would give it extra damage. If both torsos are destroyed, it would still have both ML and small laser to continue to fight.
Possibly. I just think the 2nd UAC20 is too much.
@@MechanicalFrogI agree. It feels like a "hey look what we can do with clan tech" it would be a little bit better with dropping 2 DHS for 2 more tons of ammo, or better yet replace the UACs with dule gauss drop 2 DHS and give them 4 tons of ammo. But I suppose that would defeat the purpose of a last chance for honor kind of mech.
Sadly, with only two tons of AC/20 ammo, a pair of UAC/20s will burn through its ammo in two and a half volleys. Yes, getting hit by a full salvo will kill any 'Mech, but because ammo is so sorely limited, pilots have to be very sure of their shots. So they won't be firing every turn. All you need to do is successfully avoid it for a few turns and it's suddenly a bigger, slower Spider.
That's the reason that you see most of the Hunchbacks in the cartoon just firing their lasers and not the ACs. :D
Saving it up for the perfect shot...
@@MechanicalFrog Indeed... if they can survive that long.
The hunchbot, both IS and Clan, are both kinda.....meh in my mind. The thing the hunchback does best is force the enemy to pay attention. Whatever the mechs problems, you can't ignore those big cannons, and a smart commander uses that to mold the battlefield
Aff. Not my first pick in either case for a medium.
Crunchback, times 4 Edition. This time it's personal. ™
Indeed.
honestly, the best mod for the hunchback IIC is to remove the jump jets for more armor - problem solved
while i enjoy my jump jets in classic - there IIC is used as a hammer against enemy units that are being distracted by other members of the star
i always have 2 walking next to each other, staying in cover as possible, but they always make an entrance as some enemy blows up
bold choice.
@@MechanicalFrog is it? that tactic has laid waste to many of prized mad cat 2s whose pilot was way too confident
Indeed. @@TheCADDGUY
I ever tell you how much I love RAC's? Yeah, I'm a Davion player. Anyways, back to the topic. I have a real hatred for this thing, going back to Mech Commander, and it only got worse with a truly horrendous variant that I ran into in BTA 3062: twin HAG 30'S.( Or maybe 40's). It was paired up with the ATM Variant. Needless to Say, my poor Nightstar was scrap after that little encounter.
Hit it early and often.
We love it because not many other mechs can so much as hope to compete with the attitude let alone the role of "F that guy in particular" 😂
More seriously though, its a story generator....for better or worse.
Heh, absolutely.
"It's the mech that the Urbanmech fans wish their mech could be".
This is fair.
@@MechanicalFrog I was quoting you in the vid.
The twin LBX 20 one makes Solaris V medium easy in Mech 4 Mercs.
The heavy lasers make it an oven but the pilot is the bread. I have no idea why someone thought mire than 2 would be a good idea. Maybe if it were the heavy medium lasers but thats the limit
Even just going with three would have been much better.
top video mate
and yes i agree with you mate
Thanks a lot!
What are you going to do about it Stephanie? Do another trial of grievance quineg.
I think she may just need to consider a new caste.
Hb2C is the double barrelled sawed off of mechs.
4 ac20 slugs comin atcha
Indeed...
8:56 oh I totally missed that part, okay, let me give you my lecture/sermon on rotary autocannons... just kidding 🙂.
At this point it just sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown. Wah wah wah wah...
@@MechanicalFrog well then we need to turn this into more of a sermon, we need to find like a fire and brimstone style preacher to preach the truth of the rotary autocannon from the pulpit 😀.
Can you make one of these on the Thug? Everyone I heard talk about it at least likes it, since it's really tough to hate.
Also a personal favourite.
I'm going to finish up the IICs and we'll see what happens next.
Disposable mech for disposable pilots. Kind of a waste of human resources.