As a 6 year CWI with NDE background I can assure you that anyone that has achieved the certification, is qualified to conduct a visual and mechanical examination of the weld. In your video you were speaking of reading film...... this is not a CWI requirement unless the client has requested the CWI to be certified as a Radiographic interpreter. This is the requirement of the level II or level III Radiographer that is certified according to ASNT TC1A. I have the upmost respect for tradesmen and appreciate the work they perform. We all have a job to do and strive to better ourselves in every aspect. Codes and Specifications determine acceptance criteria. Welds have to be determined acceptable or rejected according to said Codes and Specifications.
ive been inspecting for 6 months now, i do not know how to strike an arc or make a weld pass, that being said i know way more theory about acceptable welds than these welders, I have better eyes than they do and have strong moral code, my coworker who used to be a welder lets a lot more things slide because he used to be a welder and thinks its fine if a weld repairs profile is 2x the oem weld, I know that causes distortion and is more prone to overlap cracks so i call it he does not because he knows even if its not full penetration and theres overlap there is a lot of weld mateerial there so he thinks thats stronger. i have a mechanical engineering technologist diploma and have a larger understanding of internal stresses and how loads are applied so i know that when an engineer designs a weld it is supposed to be that size not bigger not smaller its that size for a multitude of reasons that the engineer has designed
@@nathanthompson4077, You are the exact kind of CWI I and welders do not respect. You have not paid your dues to inspect something you cannot even do. Having the welder's respect on a project/job site goes a long way when performing our job duties and, most of all, getting them dialed into the WPS. Believe me when I say welders do not respect CWIs who were not welders. In addition, especially those CWIs with an attitude who think they know it all about welding when they have never even done it. As a retired welder of 24 years and a CWI of 20 years, I know that my welding experience has made me a much better inspector than many I know (like you) who have never welded. Trust me, I know and have worked with many CWIs who were never welders. I can tell walking through the shop or site if a welder is out of parameters by the sound. I can tell by looking at the weld if he was out of parameters and what should be done during the actual welding process to make it better to make all our jobs easier (thinking you cannot as you never did it before). Welders should be inspectors not those who have never done it. Just saying it like it is from many years of experience.
The problem is that Some Inspectors that have never welded think all welds have too look like the ones they seen on their books or pics they think we are robots and no matter what we fighting wind ,heat ,cold conditions foreman’s pushing a bad day,tight spots, have too switch from waking the cup too free hand ,bad fits and I can go on a wc that’s been a welder looks at your weld and knows even if it’s not the best looking the most important thing is will it shoot and we need more or them
My question to the welder would be..."How much inspection experience do you have?" I would ask you do you think welders need inspection experience? Do you need to know how to inspect to weld? If your answer is no, then that's the same answer when you ask if inspectors need welding experience. In my opinion, some type of training for non-welders would help inspectors, but on the flip side of the coin, wouldn't that mean welders should learn about film reading? Should welders understand how to use gauges and all the tools/inspection techniques to make them a better welder? I'm an Inspector, not a CWI, but I want to become one. Right now at my current job I ask tons of questions to welders, I observe them, I'm on youtube looking up different welding videos(that's how I came across your video) and I'm trying to understand welding more because I feel I'll become a better inspector. I would think that same logic would apply to a welder with learning more about inspections.
Yes I believe a welder should understand an inspectors job and what he is looking for as well as a inspector should understand what it takes to make the type of weld he is requiring and looking for
Excellent point Robert ! I don't have enough time to count how many welds I've come across that the welder has left simple fixable anomalies on their welds that I could have rejected and did them a solid and chipped that surface slag off for them per say. That includes Nuclear work that I have 10+ years experience in. The best advice i convey to the new welders out there is, "The welder is the first Inspector". As a welder you have to know basics of Inspection as I have to know the basics of welding and the procedures that govern.
When I went to welding school we covered everything destructive and NDT as well as metallurgy. We also covered D1.1, the best inspectors I have known when I was a welder had all been welders. The pain in the ass inspectors where not welders.
As a 25 yr welder that now has a CWI I can understand your point, however as for knowing how the weld is built is none of there/our concern as long as it is to AWS/ASME/API standard. I use to think the same but as I've learned the rules are the rules.
A couple things here, first there are “industry experience” requirements depending on your education level to become a CWI pretty much bottoming out at 5 years unless you have a degree specific to welding/ metallurgy engineering. Second, the first part of the three part test to become a CWI is 150+ questions on general welding and fabrication knowledge including welding safety, metallurgy, print reading etc all chosen at random so you do have to know your way around welding to get past that part. Finally in some cases not having that welding experience actually works to the advantage of the inspector... if safety and objectivity are critical as they are on pipeline, then having someone who won’t make the excuses and will continually ask why is actually quite valuable. The code doesn’t care if a weld was hard to do or had lousy conditions...it cares about safety and maintaining standards for everyone involved from fabrication to consumer. And yes I am a CWI with industry experience but no formal training as a “welder.”
Welderbeast LLC don’t get me wrong it’s real easy for a non experienced CWI to abuse their title and overstep their purview but if they’re actually doing their job they will stick to the code and contract.
I started out as a LVL 2 NDT Tech. I never worked as a welder. When i moved up in my company, a CWI was my next step. Luckily for me I worked under a SCWI for 2 years. Although i never learned how to weld before. I bought a hood and worked with the SCWI who was a pipeline welder in his younger days. The experience from those training days was unmatched by any books or study prep i did for the cwi test. Learning how each weld process works and how weld defects are caused and how to fix them has helped me earn the respect from the welders i inspect. Welders gave me a lot of shit when i started lol. But i worked at my welding until i was able to pass a standard SMAW bend test. I do not have the skill to weld but now i understand and respect the difficulty of welding.
I'm so glad to find your videos and read these comments. I've been welding for 9 years now mainly GMAW and FCAW, I have my 6GR and a few other and looking to go for CWI within the next 5 months. To see others view on the job, I believe will help with decisions.
I have been a CWI for six years. Currently contracting for the Army Core of Engineers as a CWI. Also a Welding Instructor for Palm Beach State College in South Florida. I've been a Pipe Welder & Pipeline Welder for over 13 years back home in South Texas. But every job site that test any Welder to specific codes must follow within those codes. Yes, some CWI can take it to the extreme if they choose if it falls within the code. So the answer is "What code were you tested to & what does it cover. Acceptance Criteria etc. " you as a Welder have the right & authority to ask for the WPS you were tested to , & or are going to be tested to. You should always ask for the WPS before testing. Then you need the code book. The only way to have it your way with the Quality Control Inspector is to have the codes that verify your point of view. Then show the Inspector the code your following & what it says your qualified for. Or the CWI should be able to tell you what your Qualified for. My perspective as a CWI is to assist the Welder by offering my experience if need be. But my responsibility is to verify, witness, document, manage, all documentation according to the code. The CWI & the Welder should always be with the understanding of Quality & Excellence. When something isn't done meeting those expectations it is the job of the Inspector to correct & call out the defects according to the code. The Welder then has the opportunity to state his or her opinion of what went wrong. Learn from it , correct it as soon as possible & move on. Some production companies would give people a percentage of how many X Ray's you passed to how many you failed within 3 months. You could possibly lose your job because they were going to retest again in order for you to keep your job. That's pressure. Found out it was how he was striking & starting his tie ins . After he took the advice of the Experienced CWI he was to correct his mistake & keep his job with a flawless 0 % X ray failure rate for the next 5 years until the company closed. Any way. I love both worlds Inspecting & Welding. That's why I do both even today.
Knowing how to weld can only make a CWI that much better and well rounded. It's like an architect that's never having picked up a hammer or tape measure before, design buildings.... field experience can only make him/her better at their craft.
I'm from Pennsylvania and I moved to Nebraska to go to school to be an NDT tech and every school I have looked at has a welding class build into the program. Plus any CWI who has went to school for that profession goes in really deep with the welding process itself just the same as welders do if not deeper. I think we should have welding experience but I believe both the welder and the CWI get thrown into the deep end of the pool when it comes to learning how steel reacts at those temperatures and the discontinues that come from that process.
I agree, but my point was that without understanding what it physically takes to make a weld look and be like a CWI is requesting, there are many times demands beyond what most welders can do. If a CWI has welding experience he can understand what it really takes to do the things he asks a welder to do, most strict CWIs I’ve worked around were ex-welders but they were fair. The CWIs that were overbearing and unfair in their demands had no experience so in my opinion had no leg to stand on as far as knowing what it took to fulfill their demands. Being realistic is a big part of a working relationship when a welder can lose his job over the perception and personal call of a CWI
@@Welderbeast yeah I agree I was just saying.. most associates degrees and schooling in general has a required welding class that teaches the fundamentals of welding. But since CWIs aren't required to have an associates degree I think they should still have a working knowledge on how to weld.
@@paulnelson2468 yeah I graduated about a year ago. Always surprises me how much reach those guys have to their name. About 5 times I’ve been working with other ndt techs and they know bill and randy too
The inspector you mentioned using a dental pick to check undercut was out of code. The standard is visual inspection to include lights, mirrors, magnifiers, or any visual aid. If undercut is visually determined then it needs to be gaged to verify acceptance. The important question is what are the codes, specs., standards, and weld procedures being used, not some inspector or manager or technicians whim.
The client pays the CWI to ensure that everything is done to code. The codes are very specific. Any variations from the code have to be accepted/approved by the client.
Doing my CWI stuff currently and out of the 15 people in my class 2 have welding experience, myself included. Been doing certified work for 10 years and fab shop stuff for 8 years. I agree with you 100 percent. I would actually find it more difficult to do this classroom and tests without some experience and knowledge.
A CWI is a CWI. They don’t weld. They don’t have to be a welder. That is not their job requirement or their task. If the welder did not do his job properly to pass inspection according to the book, then that’s the welders fault and issue. Humming and hawing over a CWI being able to do your job to make you feel better about telling you that you didn’t do your job, shouldn’t even be a discussion. If a welder doesn’t know all the ins and outs, know how to inspect a weld according to all of the proper codes and regulations, know everything about the steps, paperwork and process from front to back and can’t do the CWIs job, then why are they concerned about someone with a totally different job and certification being able to do there’s? If the weld inspector is wrong, then they should be handled accordingly. But majority of the time, It’s an ego problem.
In my honest opinion I feel that CWI's should learn the craft of welding becuase not only thry understand whats going on under the hood and feel the pain and hard work it is to create a good weld from the prep work to the wire wheel and might also help them understand. I really want to become a CWI for these reasons but also to encourage people to do better in their work not bring them down. I also respect CWI's more who are welders than those who aren’t it just shows just a opinion of a welding student working on their dreams.
There’s benefit in them not being a welder. Physiologically, you may feel for the welder and not maintain objectivity. You mentioned that sometimes a tight spot might not be perfect. Allowances are put in the codes, anything outside of that is not the CWIs call. That has to be fed up higher on the chain for exceptions. Like a boss or engineer. Don’t be pressured into making exceptions that someone gets paid more Money to have to make. That’s there burden. Though, An inspector should have a solid understanding of welding. Calling slag in a GTAW weld is probably not good.
no one that cant do the job should be allowed to qualify to inspect. 2 years verifiable full time experience, in my opinion, even if not a "great" welder, as long as can weld ok, they will have a good understanding of process.
I’ve been told by CWIs that they have to have a minimum of 5 year verifiable welding experience before they are even allowed to take the class to become one.
Unless that’s a new thing I’m not sure that is true. I’ve had CWIs tell me straight up they have never welded and don’t know how to weld. They may need 5 years field or construction experience
Welderbeast I’ve heard it both ways. I would much deal with a cwi who has experience in the field. The ones who have told me experience was required were ones who were in their 60s. I had asked out of curiosity of what it takes to become one.
You have to have at least 5 years experience before you are even aloud to test for the CWI I have been a CWI for 30 years and agree some interpretations are incorrect because not everyone can read film correctly nor are even quanified for interpretation.....alot of college grads get their CWI just for the money...
Code shall be followed as written. No gray areas or leniency. Either acceptable or reject. Someone who is lenient to code has never sat through an RCI or lawsuit. Welding experience is a plus but like you said know your job well.
@@Welderbeast I agree that some inspectors believe there is room for their personal experience/interpretation when it comes to applying the code. I can't speak for all of the Engineers who design the connections, weld size, coverage, type...etc. but, I haven't seen too much wiggle room in the D1.1 or API 1104, and as these are the only codes I am all that familure with, I hope that the inspector isn't massaging the code to allow conditions that are listed as "Shall not" such as D1.1 (6.1). When it comes to the "should" articles...well, that is up to the engineer. His/her drawing should be detailed enough that coupled with the code...there is no room for interpretation. I know many welders who are inspectors...by and far they are much harder on welders than non welder inspectors. At the end of the day...safety and quality are the aim of production, anything else is fluff.
Specific criteria for becoming a CWI. CWI can have no welding experience, but have a bachelor's degree in engineering or metallurgy. You can find some amagalmation of degrees and weld experience all the way down to having no high school diploma and being a welder for 12 years. CWI is very strict on these standards. Being NDT/VT inspector is not the same as CWI.
That's correct, you should be an experienced welder before becoming an inspector, so that you could know what's right from wrong when it comes to Inspecting welds.
I agree to disagree. I am a CWI and a welder. I was a welder first who was fortunate enough to earn my CWI through the company that I work for. My job now is to be the Subject Matter Expert in the tank car fabrication field. I train welders and hold our inspectors accountable. If the inspector makes a bad call I go in and correct them. At the same time if we are getting a high amount of defects from particular welding operation I go in and correct that as well. What I don’t agree with is the comment that if a difficult weld might not meet the code or spec being welded to that it’s ok. That’s our job to make sure that it does meet that code or standard and make the correct changes to that proses that will improve it so that it can meet that particular code or standards. But being a welder first is a Huge advantage in this field. I would highly recommend to any future CWI to get some under the hood experience first!
Inspection is a craft period. Painters don't need to be welders to paint weldments, same applies to Inspectors. The acceptance criteria is just that. A welding inspector with integrity should NEVER knowingly reject acceptable welds, and should NEVER accept rejectable welds. It is NOT ok to accept a weld because it is hard for the welder to make it, that has NO BEARING on the acceptance criteria. The code does not say "Undercut allowance is 1/32" unless the weld is hard to make, in that case it is 1/8".... Also, a CWI should not give welders advice, ESPECIALLY if they are QA(work for the owner) or 3rd party. QC(work for the Contractor) may, with permission from their employer help supervision by coaching or correcting the welders within their company, however a welding inspector that does not work for the CONTRACTOR should only convey their concerns to the CONTRACTORS supervision. Any advice given by a CWI that does not work for the CONTRACTOR, that results in any change, especially extending the time to weld, makes the INSPECTOR liable for the extra time the welder spends. It is WHOLLY the CONTRACTORS supervisions responsibility to direct their welders. Typically, welders that complain that Inspectors need welding experience are not good welders and frequently have their welds rejected....that's been my experience over the last 35 years anyway....good welders don't normally get rejected welds, and don't normally care if the inspector was ever a welder, as long as they are good at the craft of inspection. Are there less experienced Inspectors, absolutely, just like there are less experienced welders. Do Inspectors need to have been accomplished welders, NO, absolutely NOT.
It's been many years since I made this video and I have to say I stand 100% behind what your saying now that I've been around just a little bit longer. Not near your 35 years but enough to know that what you say is correct on every point.
I think the thing you're not appreciating is how broad a field welding is. Learning how to stick weld isn't relevant for a fab shop QC inspector that only deals in FCAW and GTAW. There are CWIs who work on manufacturing where it's all automated welds and welding operators. Being able to run a bead has no value to that aspect of the field. Also many engineers get their CWI to help with procedures but never do any inspections. I understand the frustration, I've had the conversation with enough welders mad that I can't do it better. And yes I've worked with inspectors or engineers who couldn't even run a tape measure. Actually most inspectors have to deal with other inspectors as the customer rep, so everything you deal with and hate we deal with as well. Except we dont think the customer inspectors is outside the scope or being too critical, we know the code book so we know their wrong. But its very rare that arguing and angering an inspector is the most efficient way to get a job done.
I've been away from welding for a year now and I have to say I have gained a lot of perspective. You are 100% correct, that my original argument was very narrow minded and I agree with you 100% Everyone has a job and to do their job well they don't need to understand someone else's job. Thanks for bringing some objectivity to the conversation.
I am interested in becoming an NDT Technician and want to know what your opinions would be on me needing to know how to weld. I was told by my school that they would teach me the basics of the welding process but my husband swears that I am going to need to know how to actually weld to become an NDT technician. I want to start off with NDT and then work my way to becoming a CWI. I have also been told by current NDT technicians that they had no welding experience whatsoever and they became an NDT technician. What kind of advice could you all give me on this?
You don’t have to have the experience to become one I just think it helps to better understand what is actually going on under a weld hood before someone gets super critical on pointing out imperfections
luis lopez I just obtain education an AAS in welding, I spoke to an instructor about 5 years ago, and he advised me that without a degree you need about 5 years of experience to qualify for the CWI test 😎.
luis lopez that’ why Bro, you should look into the AWS website, it might provide you information on how locations to go take your AWS test ( you are more than qualified). On a different note , could you provide me tips on what type of jobs should I look for ? Consider I want to make decent Money ( I’m making around $18-2 now). I would leave my Job for similar amount since I don’t want my AAS to go to waste, but I do need the experience 😬
Pay for inspectors varies with every job. Just like pay for hands varies as well. Down in Houston area I've seen as low as 18 dollars an hour. And out in California its around 78 an hour. So it just depends where u go.
I feel your pain brother !!LOL!!! And I know it's no joke... but on the same note and you go to look at it from two sides... and I'm not trying to be judgmental or sarcastic... but in my humble opinion.. a certified welder.. regardless of the code.. should have some type of reduced or preliminary CWI test... you're saying welding inspectors should know more about what the actual welder is doing... and I agree with that to some extent.. but more importantly and above all the certified welder should know what the certified welding inspector is looking for and doing... three-quarters of the certified welders can't even give you a ballpark on what amperage they're running at the machine.. I could go on and on but I'm not I'll just leave it there..
Boooooooommmm, 🎤 drop! Your the first to point this out and you’re 100% right I was coming at it from the assumption all welders read up about welding and understand what they are doing. Thank you for bringing objectivity to this subject!
I have a buddy who is a CWI but he's also a welder and was first. When he was taking his CWI course he found out that he was the only welder there and then tore a strip off every person in the course including the instructor. He said how the f@&% are you supposed to tell someone that their weld fails when you have no idea why or how to fix the problem, you just know that your book says it's no good. Now I understand that they have a job to do but I also think they should have an idea about why the things they're inspecting are doing what they're doing too.
If they understood the how and why they would be able to have more leniency and understanding when the weld doesn't come out perfect. Good on your buddy for getting into those guys, what came of it?
@@Welderbeast one of the welding instructors at this place took him to show him around their facility and showed him some of the new welding equipment and procedures they had (like how to weld aluminum to galvanized steel) and then took him out for dinner after.
Imagine a welder who has no clue about inspections paired with an inspector that is clueless about welding. Compare that to a welder that has maybe taking a course on film interpretation and maybe some inspection techniques. Now pair him with an inspector that's taking a stick welding course. I'm sure the latter group would produce more quality welds and have a better quality inspection than the former group. The inspector AND the welder should have some type of idea of the each person's trade. At least it would help in my opinion.
It's not important whether or not they know how to weld. It holds no relevancy to the standard that is held when an inspection is required. What is important is whether or not your welds can stand the tests and provisions that have been provided by the AWS. They don't need to know what was going on under the hood, they don't need to know what the weather was that day or how emotional you were. That is completely irrelevant. They do need to know whether or not your world will fail under test. Those standards were put in place for a reason. If you don't believe that look at pipelines when they break. That said, I think they should know how to weld because it will give them a greater body of knowledge and perhaps allow them greater latitude with their decision making, however, the AWS has already decided on this and if we want to be held to the highest standard and we have to follow some of the rules- unfortunately.
At four minutes he says laws are laws.. whatever I don't know how this relates at all but.. after 45 years I've heard the term codes.. not laws!! And some codes have variances when approved..
If you can't produce the weld it doesn't matter what the inspector is this just trying to make an excuse. I've noticed a lot of X-ray techs level 2 don't know how to read x-rays either but don't blame the welding inspector for that and the X-ray tech has never been a welder. Lol The X-ray techs have to be welders right? Lol
# 1: If a fellow has 18" of esi in a continuous line then HE needs to sell his shit an quit welding because thats ridiculous, # 2: if a cwi looks me out on something because his book tells him its not suppose to look like that then he needs his ass run off, there should be no way in hell, which i know theres a bunch that cant even start a welding machine, a fellow should be able to get his cwi if hes never welded before because if u cant SHOW ME how to make my weld look like YOU want it to look then how in the hell does that give u the ability to look me out, it SHOULDNT!! Just like i cant show a doctor how to do heart surgery therefor its not right for me to tell him he cant get this job because my book says he aint doing it right...Point being i think in order to be a cwi u should 1st be a welder.
To your first point I have to agree if the call was a good call but the instance I was thinking on they just called 18" of esi because they didn't know what to call it. It turned out to be because the bead was too straight. We cut that weld out and it had to be one of the best beads I had seen, sent it to town to be reshot by our weld test facility and they called the weld good. The call was bogus and to the short of the story, on that job we had to accrue over a million dollars in repairs and bad calls before they brought in a 4th party high level film reader to review the calls. I can't remember the exact percentage but I believe it was over 90 percentile were overturned and deemed satisfactory. Moral of the story, if we didn't have such an exceptional Welder Boss fighting for us tooth and nail cause he knew they were calling bogus calls(he had his own film reading light in his office to read every film that was considered a bust) there would have been a lot of welders that would have lost their jobs. Which leads to your second point, that was the job that made me believe exactly like you. When you have the power over a mans livelihood you better know what your doing when you call a bust. I was using this video cause I thought I was being callused on the point due to my experiences but now I'm seeing I'm not the only one that feels the same way as you very thoroughly described.
@@Welderbeast what do u mean the bead was "to straight" that makes no sense. Elongated slag inclusion looks NOTHING like bead. Whoever made that call had absolutely no idea what they were doin
Beau Godwin RIGHT?! That’s literally my point, the job was a nightmare because of calls like that! I can’t explain what a bead being too straight means because it doesn’t make sense, that was the only explanation for why they called it that way when there was no slag found after the test lab reshot the weld
Beau Godwin I know brother, your preaching to the choir! I don’t know what else to tell you, I did not make the call. We all said exactly what you are saying to the X-ray techs but they still didn’t overturn the call. Like I said before it was a very messed up job
Sometimes it's just the personality of the guy being a jerk. Itnhas nothing to do with if he was a welder. There nothing in the code book that requires me to be a welder or should have passion for what the welder goes through except that he produces acceptable welds. That might seem harsh but that is the code book. Of course I'm a realist and I'm flexible but I could see where a lot of Inspector are a holes from that standpoint because they like the control
As a 6 year CWI with NDE background I can assure you that anyone that has achieved the certification, is qualified to conduct a visual and mechanical examination of the weld. In your video you were speaking of reading film...... this is not a CWI requirement unless the client has requested the CWI to be certified as a Radiographic interpreter. This is the requirement of the level II or level III Radiographer that is certified according to ASNT TC1A. I have the upmost respect for tradesmen and appreciate the work they perform. We all have a job to do and strive to better ourselves in every aspect. Codes and Specifications determine acceptance criteria. Welds have to be determined acceptable or rejected according to said Codes and Specifications.
ive been inspecting for 6 months now, i do not know how to strike an arc or make a weld pass, that being said i know way more theory about acceptable welds than these welders, I have better eyes than they do and have strong moral code, my coworker who used to be a welder lets a lot more things slide because he used to be a welder and thinks its fine if a weld repairs profile is 2x the oem weld, I know that causes distortion and is more prone to overlap cracks so i call it he does not because he knows even if its not full penetration and theres overlap there is a lot of weld mateerial there so he thinks thats stronger. i have a mechanical engineering technologist diploma and have a larger understanding of internal stresses and how loads are applied so i know that when an engineer designs a weld it is supposed to be that size not bigger not smaller its that size for a multitude of reasons that the engineer has designed
@@nathanthompson4077, You are the exact kind of CWI I and welders do not respect. You have not paid your dues to inspect something you cannot even do. Having the welder's respect on a project/job site goes a long way when performing our job duties and, most of all, getting them dialed into the WPS. Believe me when I say welders do not respect CWIs who were not welders. In addition, especially those CWIs with an attitude who think they know it all about welding when they have never even done it.
As a retired welder of 24 years and a CWI of 20 years, I know that my welding experience has made me a much better inspector than many I know (like you) who have never welded. Trust me, I know and have worked with many CWIs who were never welders. I can tell walking through the shop or site if a welder is out of parameters by the sound. I can tell by looking at the weld if he was out of parameters and what should be done during the actual welding process to make it better to make all our jobs easier (thinking you cannot as you never did it before).
Welders should be inspectors not those who have never done it.
Just saying it like it is from many years of experience.
@@nathanthompson4077 ...Yeah but not as good as an x-welder can.
The problem is that Some Inspectors that have never welded think all welds have too look like the ones they seen on their books or pics they think we are robots and no matter what we fighting wind ,heat ,cold conditions foreman’s pushing a bad day,tight spots, have too switch from waking the cup too free hand ,bad fits and I can go on a wc that’s been a welder looks at your weld and knows even if it’s not the best looking the most important thing is will it shoot and we need more or them
My question to the welder would be..."How much inspection experience do you have?"
I would ask you do you think welders need inspection experience? Do you need to know how to inspect to weld? If your answer is no, then that's the same answer when you ask if inspectors need welding experience. In my opinion, some type of training for non-welders would help inspectors, but on the flip side of the coin, wouldn't that mean welders should learn about film reading? Should welders understand how to use gauges and all the tools/inspection techniques to make them a better welder? I'm an Inspector, not a CWI, but I want to become one. Right now at my current job I ask tons of questions to welders, I observe them, I'm on youtube looking up different welding videos(that's how I came across your video) and I'm trying to understand welding more because I feel I'll become a better inspector. I would think that same logic would apply to a welder with learning more about inspections.
Yes I believe a welder should understand an inspectors job and what he is looking for as well as a inspector should understand what it takes to make the type of weld he is requiring and looking for
Excellent point Robert ! I don't have enough time to count how many welds I've come across that the welder has left simple fixable anomalies on their welds that I could have rejected and did them a solid and chipped that surface slag off for them per say. That includes Nuclear work that I have 10+ years experience in. The best advice i convey to the new welders out there is, "The welder is the first Inspector". As a welder you have to know basics of Inspection as I have to know the basics of welding and the procedures that govern.
Damn, that's a good answer. How much inspection experience do you have? I will look for every variation of this for the rest of my life and use it!
When I went to welding school we covered everything destructive and NDT as well as metallurgy. We also covered D1.1, the best inspectors I have known when I was a welder had all been welders. The pain in the ass inspectors where not welders.
We inspect our welds every time before we call qc soo I think it’s a lot more then you bud
As a 25 yr welder that now has a CWI I can understand your point, however as for knowing how the weld is built is none of there/our concern as long as it is to AWS/ASME/API standard. I use to think the same but as I've learned the rules are the rules.
A couple things here, first there are “industry experience” requirements depending on your education level to become a CWI pretty much bottoming out at 5 years unless you have a degree specific to welding/ metallurgy engineering. Second, the first part of the three part test to become a CWI is 150+ questions on general welding and fabrication knowledge including welding safety, metallurgy, print reading etc all chosen at random so you do have to know your way around welding to get past that part. Finally in some cases not having that welding experience actually works to the advantage of the inspector... if safety and objectivity are critical as they are on pipeline, then having someone who won’t make the excuses and will continually ask why is actually quite valuable. The code doesn’t care if a weld was hard to do or had lousy conditions...it cares about safety and maintaining standards for everyone involved from fabrication to consumer. And yes I am a CWI with industry experience but no formal training as a “welder.”
Thank you, I appreciate you clarifying! It helps to see what it really takes to be a CWI
Welderbeast LLC don’t get me wrong it’s real easy for a non experienced CWI to abuse their title and overstep their purview but if they’re actually doing their job they will stick to the code and contract.
I started out as a LVL 2 NDT Tech. I never worked as a welder. When i moved up in my company, a CWI was my next step. Luckily for me I worked under a SCWI for 2 years. Although i never learned how to weld before. I bought a hood and worked with the SCWI who was a pipeline welder in his younger days. The experience from those training days was unmatched by any books or study prep i did for the cwi test. Learning how each weld process works and how weld defects are caused and how to fix them has helped me earn the respect from the welders i inspect. Welders gave me a lot of shit when i started lol. But i worked at my welding until i was able to pass a standard SMAW bend test. I do not have the skill to weld but now i understand and respect the difficulty of welding.
That is awesome!
Hoot3000 was he an A.P.I. 1104 C.W.I. or D1.1 C.W.I.?
JT'S Toy Adventure api 1104.
I'm so glad to find your videos and read these comments. I've been welding for 9 years now mainly GMAW and FCAW, I have my 6GR and a few other and looking to go for CWI within the next 5 months. To see others view on the job, I believe will help with decisions.
I hope it has helped you
I have been a CWI for six years. Currently contracting for the Army Core of Engineers as a CWI. Also a Welding Instructor for Palm Beach State College in South Florida. I've been a Pipe Welder & Pipeline Welder for over 13 years back home in South Texas. But every job site that test any Welder to specific codes must follow within those codes. Yes, some CWI can take it to the extreme if they choose if it falls within the code. So the answer is "What code were you tested to & what does it cover. Acceptance Criteria etc. " you as a Welder have the right & authority to ask for the WPS you were tested to , & or are going to be tested to. You should always ask for the WPS before testing. Then you need the code book. The only way to have it your way with the Quality Control Inspector is to have the codes that verify your point of view. Then show the Inspector the code your following & what it says your qualified for. Or the CWI should be able to tell you what your Qualified for. My perspective as a CWI is to assist the Welder by offering my experience if need be. But my responsibility is to verify, witness, document, manage, all documentation according to the code. The CWI & the Welder should always be with the understanding of Quality & Excellence. When something isn't done meeting those expectations it is the job of the Inspector to correct & call out the defects according to the code. The Welder then has the opportunity to state his or her opinion of what went wrong. Learn from it , correct it as soon as possible & move on. Some production companies would give people a percentage of how many X Ray's you passed to how many you failed within 3 months. You could possibly lose your job because they were going to retest again in order for you to keep your job. That's pressure. Found out it was how he was striking & starting his tie ins . After he took the advice of the Experienced CWI he was to correct his mistake & keep his job with a flawless 0 % X ray failure rate for the next 5 years until the company closed. Any way. I love both worlds Inspecting & Welding. That's why I do both even today.
Thanks for sharing brother
Knowing how to weld can only make a CWI that much better and well rounded.
It's like an architect that's never having picked up a hammer or tape measure before, design buildings....
field experience can only make him/her better at their craft.
In the same sense, knowing inspection would make a welder better...
I'm from Pennsylvania and I moved to Nebraska to go to school to be an NDT tech and every school I have looked at has a welding class build into the program. Plus any CWI who has went to school for that profession goes in really deep with the welding process itself just the same as welders do if not deeper. I think we should have welding experience but I believe both the welder and the CWI get thrown into the deep end of the pool when it comes to learning how steel reacts at those temperatures and the discontinues that come from that process.
I agree, but my point was that without understanding what it physically takes to make a weld look and be like a CWI is requesting, there are many times demands beyond what most welders can do. If a CWI has welding experience he can understand what it really takes to do the things he asks a welder to do, most strict CWIs I’ve worked around were ex-welders but they were fair. The CWIs that were overbearing and unfair in their demands had no experience so in my opinion had no leg to stand on as far as knowing what it took to fulfill their demands. Being realistic is a big part of a working relationship when a welder can lose his job over the perception and personal call of a CWI
@@Welderbeast yeah I agree I was just saying.. most associates degrees and schooling in general has a required welding class that teaches the fundamentals of welding. But since CWIs aren't required to have an associates degree I think they should still have a working knowledge on how to weld.
@@alexwhite2031 Milford squad, you take classes with bill and randy?
@@paulnelson2468 yeah I graduated about a year ago. Always surprises me how much reach those guys have to their name. About 5 times I’ve been working with other ndt techs and they know bill and randy too
@@alexwhite2031 Milford squad. Have one more year to go. Yes we just finished our welding classes. Scc best NDT school out there.
The inspector you mentioned using a dental pick to check undercut was out of code.
The standard is visual inspection to include lights, mirrors, magnifiers, or any visual aid.
If undercut is visually determined then it needs to be gaged to verify acceptance.
The important question is what are the codes, specs., standards, and weld procedures being used,
not some inspector or manager or technicians whim.
I agree
Unless he’s just knocking off slag... the weld does need to be clean to be properly examined.
The client pays the CWI to ensure that everything is done to code. The codes are very specific. Any variations from the code have to be accepted/approved by the client.
Doing my CWI stuff currently and out of the 15 people in my class 2 have welding experience, myself included. Been doing certified work for 10 years and fab shop stuff for 8 years. I agree with you 100 percent. I would actually find it more difficult to do this classroom and tests without some experience and knowledge.
A CWI is a CWI. They don’t weld. They don’t have to be a welder. That is not their job requirement or their task. If the welder did not do his job properly to pass inspection according to the book, then that’s the welders fault and issue. Humming and hawing over a CWI being able to do your job to make you feel better about telling you that you didn’t do your job, shouldn’t even be a discussion. If a welder doesn’t know all the ins and outs, know how to inspect a weld according to all of the proper codes and regulations, know everything about the steps, paperwork and process from front to back and can’t do the CWIs job, then why are they concerned about someone with a totally different job and certification being able to do there’s? If the weld inspector is wrong, then they should be handled accordingly. But majority of the time, It’s an ego problem.
Reading film is not a requirement of the of CWI except they need to have a general understanding of things of course
In my honest opinion I feel that CWI's should learn the craft of welding becuase not only thry understand whats going on under the hood and feel the pain and hard work it is to create a good weld from the prep work to the wire wheel and might also help them understand. I really want to become a CWI for these reasons but also to encourage people to do better in their work not bring them down. I also respect CWI's more who are welders than those who aren’t it just shows just a opinion of a welding student working on their dreams.
There’s benefit in them not being a welder. Physiologically, you may feel for the welder and not maintain objectivity. You mentioned that sometimes a tight spot might not be perfect. Allowances are put in the codes, anything outside of that is not the CWIs call. That has to be fed up higher on the chain for exceptions. Like a boss or engineer. Don’t be pressured into making exceptions that someone gets paid more
Money to have to make. That’s there burden.
Though, An inspector should have a solid understanding of welding. Calling slag in a GTAW weld is probably not good.
no one that cant do the job should be allowed to qualify to inspect. 2 years verifiable full time experience, in my opinion, even if not a "great" welder, as long as can weld ok, they will have a good understanding of process.
Well said brother, that's the common consensus going on with this video.
I’ve been told by CWIs that they have to have a minimum of 5 year verifiable welding experience before they are even allowed to take the class to become one.
Unless that’s a new thing I’m not sure that is true. I’ve had CWIs tell me straight up they have never welded and don’t know how to weld. They may need 5 years field or construction experience
Welderbeast I’ve heard it both ways. I would much deal with a cwi who has experience in the field. The ones who have told me experience was required were ones who were in their 60s. I had asked out of curiosity of what it takes to become one.
Larry Karr I guess the only way for me to find out for sure is to become one ha
You have to have at least 5 years experience before you are even aloud to test for the CWI I have been a CWI for 30 years and agree some interpretations are incorrect because not everyone can read film correctly nor are even quanified for interpretation.....alot of college grads get their CWI just for the money...
You are correct. Same rule applies to reading film. You can be a welder and not ever x-Rayed a weld but you can learn to read an X-ray.
I agree 100%
Code shall be followed as written. No gray areas or leniency. Either acceptable or reject. Someone who is lenient to code has never sat through an RCI or lawsuit. Welding experience is a plus but like you said know your job well.
What is written is always open for interpretation, lawyers make a living doing it;)
Will the code change if the Inspector is a former welder?
Code won’t change but how he interprets the code will change. Code is susceptible to different points of view
@@Welderbeast I agree that some inspectors believe there is room for their personal experience/interpretation when it comes to applying the code. I can't speak for all of the Engineers who design the connections, weld size, coverage, type...etc. but, I haven't seen too much wiggle room in the D1.1 or API 1104, and as these are the only codes I am all that familure with, I hope that the inspector isn't massaging the code to allow conditions that are listed as "Shall not" such as D1.1 (6.1). When it comes to the "should" articles...well, that is up to the engineer. His/her drawing should be detailed enough that coupled with the code...there is no room for interpretation. I know many welders who are inspectors...by and far they are much harder on welders than non welder inspectors. At the end of the day...safety and quality are the aim of production, anything else is fluff.
These answers are unbelievable considering we have the internet. Smh
To check it off visual or film u would think u have to have exp.
You would think so wouldn't you? haha I'm not actually sure what experience is required to get a CWI, something worth looking into.
Are you talking about C.W.I. Inspectors or NDT RT inspectors?
All weld inspectors really
Specific criteria for becoming a CWI. CWI can have no welding experience, but have a bachelor's degree in engineering or metallurgy. You can find some amagalmation of degrees and weld experience all the way down to having no high school diploma and being a welder for 12 years. CWI is very strict on these standards. Being NDT/VT inspector is not the same as CWI.
Inspectors should be welders before or have a bachelors degree in metallurgy
Lol
@@daveforgot127 it’s true
That's correct, you should be an experienced welder before becoming an inspector, so that you could know what's right from wrong when it comes to Inspecting welds.
Bullshit
I agree to disagree.
I am a CWI and a welder. I was a welder first who was fortunate enough to earn my CWI through the company that I work for. My job now is to be the Subject Matter Expert in the tank car fabrication field. I train welders and hold our inspectors accountable. If the inspector makes a bad call I go in and correct them. At the same time if we are getting a high amount of defects from particular welding operation I go in and correct that as well.
What I don’t agree with is the comment that if a difficult weld might not meet the code or spec being welded to that it’s ok. That’s our job to make sure that it does meet that code or standard and make the correct changes to that proses that will improve it so that it can meet that particular code or standards.
But being a welder first is a Huge advantage in this field. I would highly recommend to any future CWI to get some under the hood experience first!
Inspection is a craft period. Painters don't need to be welders to paint weldments, same applies to Inspectors.
The acceptance criteria is just that. A welding inspector with integrity should NEVER knowingly reject acceptable welds, and should NEVER accept rejectable welds. It is NOT ok to accept a weld because it is hard for the welder to make it, that has NO BEARING on the acceptance criteria. The code does not say "Undercut allowance is 1/32" unless the weld is hard to make, in that case it is 1/8"....
Also, a CWI should not give welders advice, ESPECIALLY if they are QA(work for the owner) or 3rd party. QC(work for the Contractor) may, with permission from their employer help supervision by coaching or correcting the welders within their company, however a welding inspector that does not work for the CONTRACTOR should only convey their concerns to the CONTRACTORS supervision. Any advice given by a CWI that does not work for the CONTRACTOR, that results in any change, especially extending the time to weld, makes the INSPECTOR liable for the extra time the welder spends. It is WHOLLY the CONTRACTORS supervisions responsibility to direct their welders.
Typically, welders that complain that Inspectors need welding experience are not good welders and frequently have their welds rejected....that's been my experience over the last 35 years anyway....good welders don't normally get rejected welds, and don't normally care if the inspector was ever a welder, as long as they are good at the craft of inspection. Are there less experienced Inspectors, absolutely, just like there are less experienced welders.
Do Inspectors need to have been accomplished welders, NO, absolutely NOT.
It's been many years since I made this video and I have to say I stand 100% behind what your saying now that I've been around just a little bit longer. Not near your 35 years but enough to know that what you say is correct on every point.
I think the thing you're not appreciating is how broad a field welding is. Learning how to stick weld isn't relevant for a fab shop QC inspector that only deals in FCAW and GTAW. There are CWIs who work on manufacturing where it's all automated welds and welding operators. Being able to run a bead has no value to that aspect of the field.
Also many engineers get their CWI to help with procedures but never do any inspections. I understand the frustration, I've had the conversation with enough welders mad that I can't do it better. And yes I've worked with inspectors or engineers who couldn't even run a tape measure. Actually most inspectors have to deal with other inspectors as the customer rep, so everything you deal with and hate we deal with as well. Except we dont think the customer inspectors is outside the scope or being too critical, we know the code book so we know their wrong. But its very rare that arguing and angering an inspector is the most efficient way to get a job done.
I've been away from welding for a year now and I have to say I have gained a lot of perspective. You are 100% correct, that my original argument was very narrow minded and I agree with you 100%
Everyone has a job and to do their job well they don't need to understand someone else's job. Thanks for bringing some objectivity to the conversation.
I am interested in becoming an NDT Technician and want to know what your opinions would be on me needing to know how to weld. I was told by my school that they would teach me the basics of the welding process but my husband swears that I am going to need to know how to actually weld to become an NDT technician. I want to start off with NDT and then work my way to becoming a CWI. I have also been told by current NDT technicians that they had no welding experience whatsoever and they became an NDT technician. What kind of advice could you all give me on this?
You don’t have to have the experience to become one I just think it helps to better understand what is actually going on under a weld hood before someone gets super critical on pointing out imperfections
Hey bro I'm a welder. Been at it for 5+ years. I want to move up into inspection. Any tips? Also what's the starting rate for inspectors?
I haven’t done anything with inspection so I can’t really help you there man
luis lopez I just obtain education an AAS in welding, I spoke to an instructor about 5 years ago, and he advised me that without a degree you need about 5 years of experience to qualify for the CWI test 😎.
@@joseescalona8312 yea I know I been working as a welder for 5 years going on to 6
luis lopez that’ why Bro, you should look into the AWS website, it might provide you information on how locations to go take your AWS test ( you are more than qualified). On a different note , could you provide me tips on what type of jobs should I look for ? Consider I want to make decent Money ( I’m making around $18-2 now). I would leave my Job for similar amount since I don’t want my AAS to go to waste, but I do need the experience 😬
Pay for inspectors varies with every job. Just like pay for hands varies as well. Down in Houston area I've seen as low as 18 dollars an hour. And out in California its around 78 an hour. So it just depends where u go.
I feel your pain brother !!LOL!!! And I know it's no joke... but on the same note and you go to look at it from two sides... and I'm not trying to be judgmental or sarcastic... but in my humble opinion.. a certified welder.. regardless of the code.. should have some type of reduced or preliminary CWI test... you're saying welding inspectors should know more about what the actual welder is doing... and I agree with that to some extent.. but more importantly and above all the certified welder should know what the certified welding inspector is looking for and doing... three-quarters of the certified welders can't even give you a ballpark on what amperage they're running at the machine.. I could go on and on but I'm not I'll just leave it there..
Boooooooommmm, 🎤 drop! Your the first to point this out and you’re 100% right I was coming at it from the assumption all welders read up about welding and understand what they are doing. Thank you for bringing objectivity to this subject!
I have a buddy who is a CWI but he's also a welder and was first. When he was taking his CWI course he found out that he was the only welder there and then tore a strip off every person in the course including the instructor. He said how the f@&% are you supposed to tell someone that their weld fails when you have no idea why or how to fix the problem, you just know that your book says it's no good. Now I understand that they have a job to do but I also think they should have an idea about why the things they're inspecting are doing what they're doing too.
If they understood the how and why they would be able to have more leniency and understanding when the weld doesn't come out perfect. Good on your buddy for getting into those guys, what came of it?
@@Welderbeast one of the welding instructors at this place took him to show him around their facility and showed him some of the new welding equipment and procedures they had (like how to weld aluminum to galvanized steel) and then took him out for dinner after.
@@RCRCustoms Hmmm that doesn't seem like it solved the problem lol just detoured your friends anger
@@Welderbeast I'm pretty sure that's all they were going for at that point LOL
@@RCRCustoms LOL makes sense
Imagine a welder who has no clue about inspections paired with an inspector that is clueless about welding. Compare that to a welder that has maybe taking a course on film interpretation and maybe some inspection techniques. Now pair him with an inspector that's taking a stick welding course. I'm sure the latter group would produce more quality welds and have a better quality inspection than the former group. The inspector AND the welder should have some type of idea of the each person's trade. At least it would help in my opinion.
Agreed 100%
It's not important whether or not they know how to weld. It holds no relevancy to the standard that is held when an inspection is required. What is important is whether or not your welds can stand the tests and provisions that have been provided by the AWS. They don't need to know what was going on under the hood, they don't need to know what the weather was that day or how emotional you were. That is completely irrelevant. They do need to know whether or not your world will fail under test. Those standards were put in place for a reason. If you don't believe that look at pipelines when they break. That said, I think they should know how to weld because it will give them a greater body of knowledge and perhaps allow them greater latitude with their decision making, however, the AWS has already decided on this and if we want to be held to the highest standard and we have to follow some of the rules- unfortunately.
Very well said, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
At four minutes he says laws are laws.. whatever I don't know how this relates at all but.. after 45 years I've heard the term codes.. not laws!! And some codes have variances when approved..
You have my most sincere apologies I used the wrong verbiage, I intended to say codes not laws, thanks for helping me keep things straight!
I agree with you
Of course they should. But AWS doesn't care about producing quality and knowledgeable CWIs. They just care about getting their money for the exams.
If you can't produce the weld it doesn't matter what the inspector is this just trying to make an excuse.
I've noticed a lot of X-ray techs level 2 don't know how to read x-rays either but don't blame the welding inspector for that and the X-ray tech has never been a welder. Lol
The X-ray techs have to be welders right? Lol
# 1: If a fellow has 18" of esi in a continuous line then HE needs to sell his shit an quit welding because thats ridiculous, # 2: if a cwi looks me out on something because his book tells him its not suppose to look like that then he needs his ass run off, there should be no way in hell, which i know theres a bunch that cant even start a welding machine, a fellow should be able to get his cwi if hes never welded before because if u cant SHOW ME how to make my weld look like YOU want it to look then how in the hell does that give u the ability to look me out, it SHOULDNT!! Just like i cant show a doctor how to do heart surgery therefor its not right for me to tell him he cant get this job because my book says he aint doing it right...Point being i think in order to be a cwi u should 1st be a welder.
To your first point I have to agree if the call was a good call but the instance I was thinking on they just called 18" of esi because they didn't know what to call it. It turned out to be because the bead was too straight. We cut that weld out and it had to be one of the best beads I had seen, sent it to town to be reshot by our weld test facility and they called the weld good. The call was bogus and to the short of the story, on that job we had to accrue over a million dollars in repairs and bad calls before they brought in a 4th party high level film reader to review the calls. I can't remember the exact percentage but I believe it was over 90 percentile were overturned and deemed satisfactory. Moral of the story, if we didn't have such an exceptional Welder Boss fighting for us tooth and nail cause he knew they were calling bogus calls(he had his own film reading light in his office to read every film that was considered a bust) there would have been a lot of welders that would have lost their jobs. Which leads to your second point, that was the job that made me believe exactly like you. When you have the power over a mans livelihood you better know what your doing when you call a bust. I was using this video cause I thought I was being callused on the point due to my experiences but now I'm seeing I'm not the only one that feels the same way as you very thoroughly described.
@@Welderbeast what do u mean the bead was "to straight" that makes no sense. Elongated slag inclusion looks NOTHING like bead. Whoever made that call had absolutely no idea what they were doin
Beau Godwin RIGHT?! That’s literally my point, the job was a nightmare because of calls like that! I can’t explain what a bead being too straight means because it doesn’t make sense, that was the only explanation for why they called it that way when there was no slag found after the test lab reshot the weld
@@Welderbeast 99.9999% of the time when you see a strait line on the bead its because the shoulder wasnt broke down, looks nothing like esi
Beau Godwin I know brother, your preaching to the choir! I don’t know what else to tell you, I did not make the call. We all said exactly what you are saying to the X-ray techs but they still didn’t overturn the call. Like I said before it was a very messed up job
CWI.. should have not just be a book nerd😮
Sometimes it's just the personality of the guy being a jerk. Itnhas nothing to do with if he was a welder. There nothing in the code book that requires me to be a welder or should have passion for what the welder goes through except that he produces acceptable welds. That might seem harsh but that is the code book. Of course I'm a realist and I'm flexible but I could see where a lot of Inspector are a holes from that standpoint because they like the control
as do alot of welders
I bet that fool who failed you on your welding test never welded a day in his life, lol.
Sadly he didn't but I lost my job and he still had his, thats life haha
Yes they should have exp.
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