This is what UA-cam is for man, niche videos on games I played 20 years ago. Absolutely amazing amount of detail in this documentary, my hats off to you.
@@benoitbedard8468 disco is mid reddit quips, it's safe and boring, not comparable at all to PT (even if it may be better than the rest of the current swill).
I love these retrospectives, but Jesus Christ, every time you learn details about the making-of of some of your all-time favorites you can't help but get the feeling that part of what made them outstanding seems to be there almost by accident rather than by design.
That's one reason that attempts to "capture lightning in a bottle" a second (third, etc.) time in sequels and spin-offs usually fail. Happy accidents are often just that - accidents.
It’s like watching sausages being made at the butcher’s and realizing that particularly amazing sausage you ate yesterday may be impossible to reproduce exactly…. Whether this spoils one’s taste for sausages altogether depends on the individual.
I’m like 44mins in and just want to chime in and say the breadth of coverage on this is pretty incredible. Feels like a history lesson and in all the right ways.
Ah shit, a six hour review on what's possibly the best video game that I've been trying to forget for the last 15 years so I can finally experience it all again fresh. You really know how to lay waste to a guy's plans.
Was that before or after you dug up reviews from Avault? Lord have mercy I haven't thought about Avault for so long I'm getting nostalgia whiplash here. @@MrEdders123
Planescape Torment is one of the most important games of all time. I have finished it for the first time when I was 10 or 11 and since then I have been playing it regularly. It is a true art.
Same story friend, i was 11, finished it multiple times. Never got bored, whenever i start a new playthrough i always feel like coming back home. This game is where my soul resides.
Same, to be honest. Played it in the back half of elementary school, so... at 12 or 13? I'm over 30 now and it's still the first thing that comes to mind when people talk about games with great writing.
He’s a thoughtful guy with interesting thoughts. But I much prefer what Edders do which is analyzing the entire game from pre production to game play with an insane amount of research from old magazines. Really fascinating. I really like Warlockracy as well, he has a major focus on CRPGs and their mods with an Eastern European perspective which is interesting when analyzing mods and games developed in that part of the world, he also has a good sense of humor without it being overbearing like some UA-camrs, and interesting gameplay and development takes. An insanely popular one is Joseph Anderson, who is also a favorite of mine. He’s sadly too inactive as he seems to think a longer script is better or at least that’s how the direction of his work has gone. No wonder it’s probably feels overwhelming for him. People like him need a harsh editor lol. My problem with Gervais is the fact that the background gameplay often has no relation other than being the game he’s referring too. So it might as well be audio.
Content? Wtf is that? Oh I'll just fill some time and that means it's good? Joseph is one of those cats that says "it's either raining or it's not" ... ie saying absolutely nothing. Constantly checking himself to the point of meaninglessness. You should be ashamed of yourself. "Oh but it's hours of content" wut? Is it any good? Does it have a point? Edders being long-form is a consequence of the depth, meaning and effort. Sounds like you should just knock yourself out with an anunnaki video.
Youve been my favorite youtuber for about 6 months now! I LOVE watching these videos. I also hugely appreciate all the art and illustration from different media you include as a form of world building that goes above and beyond showing the gameplay by itself. That extends to when you show articles and the like through the Wayback Machine or some archives. It does an excellent job of applying the "show dont tell" mantra to something like a historical video game retrospective and makes everything more compelling and real. I havent seen that nearly as much in most other game retrospectives on youtube. It's clear you put a mammoth amount of effort and research into producing these and I'd like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart! I hope you enjoy making these videos anywhere close to how much I enjoy watching them. Also, I hope it pleases you to know that your videos just keep getting better and better, so it really feels like youre honing your craft! Cheers!
OMG the effort you must put into producing such well documented, high quality and LONG videos must be monumental! Thank you so much for going to such lengths and making so good content.
I just ran through this game again and I still loved it. That world, man. I'd love to go back one day on a new adventure. Considering how much I loved the voice cast Larian used for BG3, I'd be spoiled if they decided to do a game in that setting in the future.
I don't really want a remake of Torment, not because i'm afraid they'll "ruin" it but because its such a lightning in a bottle example of keeping everything open ended enough for the story to be interpreted and experienced in so many ways. Like its not "'this studio can't do it", I don't think anyone can do it. But I do wan't to see another game set in Sigil. Though even then I don't think it can be rendered properly on a realistic budget. It'd be an expensive game, and expensive games end up written by a boardroom of shortsighted execs who are too worried of turning off a quadrant of the market to say anything substantial.
@@MrEdders123 I mean the epilogue for BG3 has all but guaranteed that the unification of the Githyanki and Githzerai is next on the agenda, and the fact that Avellon had been planning something similar with Dak'kon as a continuation, we will probably be seeing Dak'kon and the setting return, and Avellon himself based on his previous experience working with Larian on DOS2.
@@abdalln8554- Art controlled by executive committee, distorted by a publisher to be “marketable,” is not really art at all, is it? The final product is just that - a product. Looking around at the gaming industry today there is not much hope for another game based in Sigil. We seem to be drowning in mediocrity.
@@ColdHawk So like uh, we agree. Tbh the only way I can see a planescape game with as much breadth as fits the setting is if the graphics were scaled back a console gen or two while still letting the game have the development time of an AAA game. Capital G gamers would blow a gasket for the former and execs would skin you for the latter. So ripperoni jabroni.
Planecape does not need much introduction to the seasoned player. I love your work. You're really doing these games justice (even if it's Decent to Undermountain).
I watched your DTUM video last night from yt autoplay and thought damn, this guy has the perfect formula for how I like my retrospectives, where you actually talk about the history of the development, the context of the time, media from the time etc, rather than the ego stroking "I played this old game for the first time and this is what I think about it for 12 redundant hours" from some other channels that I will not name here. It feels far more professional, calculated and organized like a real piece of old school gaming media. Came to see if you had anything else and see this, perfect timing! thanks for the content Mr.Edder. You're definitely gonna get bigger in this space.
Long-form review and analysis videos like these are like finding treasure. Your passion for video game journalism and attention to lore details shows. Thank you very much for bringing us this work of art.
I just found your channel, and it feels like I’ve struck gold. These retrospective video series are soooo nostalgic and bring back so many memories and emotions, THANK YOU! (That’s not even mentioning the depth, information, and every single detail you keenly cover. Every video is so well done!!)
I've watched a bunch of video essays on PS:T (it's one of my favourite games) but this was by far the most comprehensive and interesting, and I'm blown away by how much I learned about this game and it's development. Magnificent job!
Man, oh man. This is incredible. It’s as weighty as a Master’s Thesis. I am struggling to grasp the level of carefully detailed research here. It is easy to see how, in the future this may actually form the backbone of some budding Historian’s doctoral work. Drilling down into the thoughts and motivations of individuals who contributed, and the commentary regarding the influence of trends, themes and issues affecting the industry made this compelling for me. (I am surprised at how much I enjoyed these elements.) Well done!
just commenting to hopefully bring some more attention to this channel which totally deserves it. Your retrospectives and analyses really show these older games in not only their relative gaming context, but also their social and cultural contexts as well which makes me appreciate them even more.
Im so glad that i found your channel. Love that you dig up old forum posts, interviews etc. I have never finished Planescape, think i got halfways trough, but i want to go back and try again someday. Want more RPGS with wierd worlds and designs.
Even before watching i can say, that the more time pass, the more Planescape Torment is appreciated. Almost 5 hours and 40 minutes (and probably hundred hours to make this video) says a lot, the longest on YT. For me clearly this is far more than a game or book. This is work of art, I can say even a masterpiece in it's own core elements. Thank you. Time is not your enemy, Forever is.
This is THE Planescape video. Combining the best of those who have covered the lore of Planescape like AJ Picket and Michael Snow, with the reviews of the game by Mortismal and Strat-Edgy. Thank you for this, for being part of the passionate fanbase of this oft neglected and half remembered setting that has yet to truely show its potential off the tabletop.
You never know when youre living in the good old days. Hearing that critique of a lack of quality control for a full priced product was surreal. Now reviewers give a game a 10 and say "hopefully some patches will be coming soon". Great vid. Much easier to appreciate this game in the modern day. Its really something and always was.
Gamers will preorder a game from a studio that's known for releasing broken games, the game will release with only the cash shop functioning right, they'll complain about it for like 5 minutes, and then say "guys its fixed now, and the battlepass is great!" As much as corprorate reviewers have a perverse incentive to fluff up games or risk studios ignoring them. Studio execs themselves have been given more incentives by us consumers to not provide as whole of a product anymore. The ideal game to them are gacha/slot machine games, but thankfully we atleast expect something better for now lol.
This is possibly THE definitive video on Planescape: Torment, I've watched a fair number of the others and not many of them delve into the game's development and background with such detailed exanimation of the minutiae. Your criticism, research and presentation is incredibly interesting and well written, and I look forward to more videos. Thank you!
I wouldn't say definitive hehe, ideal video would have consulted more team members, and there are big gaps, like exactly what happened between Avellone originally pitching his idea in his job interview and 96/97. There are probably many more concept sketches/design docs lying around someone's old office. I hope one day some more details on the cancelled Planescape projects (e.g. Zeb Cook's) come out too :)
@@MrEdders123 Indeed, there's probably still more gold in these hills, hopefully the new Planescape release in 5e reignites interest in P:T? It'd be wild if someone like Larian could get a hold of the IP and the license from Wizards to create a new title set in the Outer Planes 🤔 And then of course, an officially funded retrospective/documentary that could dig into all the details that are hard to get access to for the general public. A man can dream ☺
I have been waiting for your next content and have been replaying this masterpiece just today! I'm glad someone as you remembered about this gem and made video for it
I also love that you play the originals for these videos. I still play them also -- a certain charm. In the case of BG1, superior sprites as well. Lilura's CRPG blog is a great resource for these games.
Your whole channel is amazing. I have been a big fan of infinity engine games for years and because of your videos I learned a lot of information I wasn't aware of before. Keep up the good work, sir!
It’s just dawned on me that for nearly 25 years I’ve been misreading the title of this game as “PLANETscape”. Only realised I was wrong when I heard it said out loud in this video
It's been referred to as "Planetescape" or "Planescape Tournament" quite a few times, to the point calling it "Planetescape Tournament 2k4" became a bit of a running joke.
I'm not even half through, but, I couldn't be happier with another well researched old game documentary. I don't have enough praise, and it's praise you certainly deserve. Well done, just well done. Ah. Torn. Torn was the first game I really followed prior to . . . A release that never came. A grand series of Torn what ifs have occupied my brain over the years. For some reason I have a, possibly incorrect, memory of its protagonist being described as "accident prone on a cataclysmic level." That always captured my interest, regardless of accuracy.
what a meticulously crafted review. im only one hour in and the amount of background information you present is stunning. i loved your other videos as well and i hope you get the recognition you deserve as one of the top long form review channels. best of luck mate.
Thank you for making this video, I love the Planescape setting and this got me into it. It was just so different, strange and made you feel like anything could happen, I got a taste of it in the game and I wanted more. I would've loved to have more Planescape games, I'm sad to see they never got made. I'm still not excited for the promise of new stuff from WotC, everything they've released for a good while has been terrible in my opinion. I'm glad to hear you're going to make shorter videos though I like your long-form content as well, thanks for showing my favorite setting so much love. Can't wait for the next videos. :)
This is great, tysm! I just cannot get myself to play these old games but I love their depth, vibe and stories so much. I could never experience them anywhere close to as well without you and other channels that to retrospectives and similar this in-depth I really appreciate that.
I want to tell you I really appreciate you doing these part-review, part historical studies. They are entertaining, informative, and critical. I had more or less gotten to a point where I'd given up on anything longer than an hour claiming to be "analysis" because it was almost guaranteed to be a guy quite literally summarizing the plot and interjecting a quip every three minutes or so. I really enjoy your well-researched and scholarly perspectives that have a respect for the material (though the odd bit of humor does not go amiss, e.g. 2:43:10 ). Thank you.
now knowing i was robbed of a world where i could get a kings field style black isle rpg is immensly saddening... at least shadow tower exists to kind of fill that gap
So I watched 10 mins of this video and bought the game last night. I just found.. dammit I cannot remember his name, old man in the buried village, sends you to the catacombs. I then got teleported by a rat/human..... and I'm stuck. So far this game has been massively interesting and a very refreshing change of pace as I was lost in multiplayer games. Thanks!
I enjoy your videos, they have a very balanced combination of historical retrospective and honest game analysis, and it the videos just have a degree of sincerity to it that its hard to come by nowadays, if that makes sense. I enjoy to hear your videos while working, so thank you for your channel!
A late comment, but I just wanted to say you do awesome work. I missed this video because it came out around the time my daughter was born and got lost in the shuffle. I was going through my subscriptions to see what I've missed in the past year and realized I have a 5+ hour of unwatched MrEdders content and I was legitimately giddy about it. Keep it up!
Thank you for this deeply comprehensive review, I just know it will be keeping me company during my quiet moments this week. It's always a pleasure to learn more about how one of my favorite games of all time came to be.
One of the handful games that truly deserves a 5+ hour video essay treatment, along with the original Deus Ex, Fallout 1 and 2 and Arcanum. Thank you for making this, sir , your videos are always very informative and interesting.
Finally finished this one. I must say, if there was such a thing as a critical magnum opus, THIS would be it. Bare none, one of the most in-depth, well-written critical reviews of the UA-cam age. I may not agree on Edders' stance on the Enhanced Editions, but my god, his videos are amazing. Bravo!
Just recently got into the CRPG craze, started playing Disco Elysium, and was blown away by its systems. And then of course I find a 5 hour documentary on one of the staples of the genre. Thank you for your hard work, it doesn't go unnoticed. Subscribed.
Campanella's journey from 2D to creating beautiful works of 3D art is very inspiring and wholesome. We all learnt on the job. Within game dev, we had periods and episodes where we adapted and readapted to completely new tools, libraries, languages, techniques and interpersonal skills. I am glad I don't have to make games anymore as games were and still are a disorganized jumble of messy ideas and techniques through chaotic productions, but going through this video brought back some mild nostalgia. Thank you, Edders.
I literally just subbed after watching some of your videos, I wrapped up your BG2 video today and was thinking about how excited I was for this to drop
An Epic Retrospective which i thank you from the bottom of my heart! I can only imagine the titanic effort you did to search for answers and materials to put it together which would have taken days, weeks and even months. Back in the early 2000's i got the Game from the White Label Package (BG1 too!) and explored a world unknown from anything i knew about Fantasy. It was stressing at first keeping up with the conventions, its world, rules and laws until i felt overloaded with all the infos which ended me quitting it after some time. Only later when i grew older and wiser, i could tackle the game again and beat it for the first time and finally appreciating for what it is. It left me speechless and somewhat empty with its ending that felt bitter sweet and not what i thought it would be if you played similar Fantasy Games with a more "happier" ending. Besides the Art, the Music itself captured me heavily. When i was at the Brothel, i felt somehow at peace and would actually linger there just to listen to it even though it had a melancholic twist. Replaying it several times opened me up to new things i never knew if i didn't do things differently, like finding an item which would turn crucial for the final confrontation and changing the outcome! I have to agree here, that it can become quite a slog due to the amount of text if you replay it several times. I also played Tides of Numenera back then which i backed and it was also an interesting journey, but i couldn't really see it as a successor since i think it tried too hard to "emulate" PT in many ways making it feel like it hadn't its own soul. Disco Elysium on the other hand was way more interesting and i really think it captured the essence of PT but going its own way. In the End, i really hope that in the future we get another Planescape game or something similar which offers something different than normal fantasy which we got in abundance over the last 20 years since PT. I would even be happy for a new Dark Sun Game which is also an interesting Setting rarely explored. One last thing which is a very minor negative point about Chapter 3:1 which shows some Spoiler imo, so maybe putting an info like you did for 5:2. Other than that i have nothing more to say and hope you continue with your marvellous retrospectives :)
Thanks very much, although the video is only a long as it is because there are so many sources to be found (interviews/other retrospectives/people who spoke to me etc.) so all I can take credit for is compiling it into a video :)
One thing that baffled me at the time was the weird hate the Infinity Engine got from the games press. Here we are in 1999, a little less than one calendar year since the first BG game come out and they are already talking about how it needs much needed improvements. And it would only get worse from there by the time Throne of Bhaal and IWD2 they were scathing with their contempt. I don't get it man, it was a great engine for RPGs.
A lot loved it, but there were "real" 3d CRPGs coming out by that point and by 2000 devs were getting hammered for 2d graphics (even when they sold well, e.g. RA2, AoE2 etc.)
I think it was because of the technological context at the time. Games graphics were seeing major leaps, with each year bringing insane improvments by developers, so there was a lot of pressure to be up to date with the "arms race" that computer graphics had become. The infinity engine was beaultiful, but a step away from the "path to progress". The same criticism was thrown at Diablo 2, which released even later in 2001 but still with pre rendered 3d graphics
2:15:00 I want to address this myth of "bad combat" - as one who has played nearly every CRPG and often returns to PT -just- for the joy of combat. ADnD Fighters may be simple but mages elevate the experience, providing a plethora of control, healing, defensive, ranged and aoe options. Spell collecting and spell slot management is fun and its % vs basic attacks is just the right amount. (Contrast Pillars of E's overly demanding micromanagement where you repeat the same clicks for every character for each battle which'd have worked better if more sparse or automated.) Attacks are well paced and pop ups and voices make it easy to follow whether attacks missed or hit and how much damage each dealt. (Seems obvious? Check how many games actually achieve it.) Devs wrote around ADnD's weaknesses Morte's taunt turns him into a tank character and TNO's early team revive ability is essential and keeps mistakes from being punishing and forcing a reload. Quick exp or equipment is usually close by if you find yourself struggling. (Compare BG1/2's or Neverwinter's RNG hell where you constantly reload, map after map after map, to keep your 4 HP wizard alive with no easy xp or revive in sight.) Points of criticism would be the lack of challenging enemy tactics (as all are just bags of hp and damage), and ease of kiting (learning to get taunted enemies stuck renders most fights trivial). These are absolutely true but you can still have fun with tactics on the player side and also, most rivals, especially contemporaries, do worse.
Thanks for the fantastic review! I was especially thankful for chapter 5:1 because I haven't played Planescape: Torment but the world sounded really intriguing. I got the game after watching your video and I hope I can find some time to play it.
@@TheBaca219That's something creators say for PR reasons to not piss off some of their Fans. It's obvious it's supposed to be Sigil (Sij-ill) because of it's position and purpose in the universe.
I hope that you do more game retrospectives! This is fantastic! I just found your channel. I loved Nox! I played all of the games you have reviewed. I know I will enjoy watching your take on these games. Keep up the great work.
Finally I finished watching this video. I'm very impressed by amount of work and effort you dedicated to analyse this brilliant and unique game. I love how much information and facts you sourced and presented, but for my taste there are just too many personal opinions included. But hey - that's me. I'm just not interested in what others like or dislike based on their personal preferences, especially "professional" critics whom you quoted, they give me cringe chills. But the sea of knowledge, insights into lore and history of production were absolutely enough for me to really enjoy this labour of love. I played PT story many times science it's premiere. And it always delights me with some new aspects or interpretations based on me being older and smarter with time. The amount of text was never a problem for me, fighting mechanics didn't matter in a grander scale of story telling, when it premiered in 1999 I was a late teenager and it was truly unique and fresh experience unmatched by any previous game I tried. An unorthodox take didn't insult me even that I used to play tabletop rpgs as long as I remember because my father was a huge nerd who introduced me to pen and paper games. For me it's not "only" a game but a true interactive and immersive piece of thought provoking art. Even if some of fans conclusions may be considered far-fetched, pretentious or unintentional everyone should remember that the receiver is the one who holds the keys to interpretation, not the creator. When work is finished intentions of it's maker do not matter anymore. Thank you so much for taking time to give this game a spotlight. I truly hope younger people will be interested in playing it thanks to your efforts. And I truly envy them because I would love to play PT for a first time again.
Thank you for making this video. I loved every hour of it. Damn thing took me two days to watch, but it was worth it. I’m a massive Planescape fan, and I really appreciate how well researched this piece was, and how you demonstrate a very detailed knowledge of the Planescape setting.
This is one of the most important classic CRPGs in history, and one of my favorites. Great story, charismatic characters, decent role-playing system and best of all; a comic but deep narrative. Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite video games. A great, great classic from Black Isle Studios. Thank you very much for this extensive analysis, I am going to enjoy it very much!! :)
I watched all of it, on the course of several days. Not used to comment in YT but I had to say a big Thank You for for research, and efforts to make this extensive retrospective on one of my fav game of all time.
This is what UA-cam is for man, niche videos on games I played 20 years ago. Absolutely amazing amount of detail in this documentary, my hats off to you.
Planescape is one of the best books I've ever played.
I've been saying it's the best book I have ever played and the best game I have ever read since 2005.
Best drug i ever did
Until 2019 and disco elysium appeared.@planescaped
@@benoitbedard8468 disco is mid reddit quips, it's safe and boring, not comparable at all to PT (even if it may be better than the rest of the current swill).
I love these retrospectives, but Jesus Christ, every time you learn details about the making-of of some of your all-time favorites you can't help but get the feeling that part of what made them outstanding seems to be there almost by accident rather than by design.
That's one reason that attempts to "capture lightning in a bottle" a second (third, etc.) time in sequels and spin-offs usually fail. Happy accidents are often just that - accidents.
i tttt
Straight on! Failure breeds Perfection :)
Welcome to real life bro
It’s like watching sausages being made at the butcher’s and realizing that particularly amazing sausage you ate yesterday may be impossible to reproduce exactly…. Whether this spoils one’s taste for sausages altogether depends on the individual.
I’m like 44mins in and just want to chime in and say the breadth of coverage on this is pretty incredible. Feels like a history lesson and in all the right ways.
Ah shit, a six hour review on what's possibly the best video game that I've been trying to forget for the last 15 years so I can finally experience it all again fresh. You really know how to lay waste to a guy's plans.
I'm only watching after I replay it
I just drink a fuckton of alcohol
Thank you so much for these long videos on crpg's.
Just wanted you to know that there's another person out there who really appreciates your hard work
it's not as niche as it used to be. It's a billion dollar industry worldwide.
The video must have taken you ages to make. Thank you for this, and I will eventually get through the whole thing.
Nah I just read the Wikipedia entry for 5hrs :D
Was that before or after you dug up reviews from Avault? Lord have mercy I haven't thought about Avault for so long I'm getting nostalgia whiplash here. @@MrEdders123
@@MrEdders123 Ah, the Arch Warhammer method!
@@MrEdders123🧢
This will take awhile, but I'll watch every second! "Updated my journal..."
How cool to see you here @TheRPGChick!!! 😁 I hope your recovery is slowly but surely going well.
@@charliebee5154 Thanks, cutter! Haha, no, thank you for real. My comeback will soon arrive. :)
There is no other game that sends shivers down my spine just by thinking about it even to this day. This game is as immortal as the protagonist.
Planescape Torment is one of the most important games of all time. I have finished it for the first time when I was 10 or 11 and since then I have been playing it regularly. It is a true art.
Same story friend, i was 11, finished it multiple times. Never got bored, whenever i start a new playthrough i always feel like coming back home. This game is where my soul resides.
@@torment4723 That's a great story buddy. Planescape Torment is so great.
I've been waking up to "Annah's Theme" on my alarm clock for twenty years now ;D @@torment4723
Same, to be honest. Played it in the back half of elementary school, so... at 12 or 13? I'm over 30 now and it's still the first thing that comes to mind when people talk about games with great writing.
Today was a good day. A new retrospective from you (on Torment no less) and a Caldwell-Gervais Fallout series retrospective. Wew.
Gervais is like Joseph compared to this. Ain't nobody got time for that. Gervais just makes things look pretty. He sucks ass man.
Ooh look at my camera-work while I talk bollocks.
Bro that Fallout video is almost 10 hours. What a huge amount of content.
He’s a thoughtful guy with interesting thoughts. But I much prefer what Edders do which is analyzing the entire game from pre production to game play with an insane amount of research from old magazines. Really fascinating.
I really like Warlockracy as well, he has a major focus on CRPGs and their mods with an Eastern European perspective which is interesting when analyzing mods and games developed in that part of the world, he also has a good sense of humor without it being overbearing like some UA-camrs, and interesting gameplay and development takes.
An insanely popular one is Joseph Anderson, who is also a favorite of mine. He’s sadly too inactive as he seems to think a longer script is better or at least that’s how the direction of his work has gone. No wonder it’s probably feels overwhelming for him. People like him need a harsh editor lol.
My problem with Gervais is the fact that the background gameplay often has no relation other than being the game he’s referring too. So it might as well be audio.
Content? Wtf is that? Oh I'll just fill some time and that means it's good? Joseph is one of those cats that says "it's either raining or it's not" ... ie saying absolutely nothing. Constantly checking himself to the point of meaninglessness. You should be ashamed of yourself. "Oh but it's hours of content" wut? Is it any good? Does it have a point? Edders being long-form is a consequence of the depth, meaning and effort. Sounds like you should just knock yourself out with an anunnaki video.
"henkel has complained that avellone and mccomb were too disorganized and inefficient in their work on torment." stereotypes exist for a reason.
Man I think I just found one of my new favorite channels
A five and a half hour retrospective of Planscape? We are truly blessed.
Youve been my favorite youtuber for about 6 months now! I LOVE watching these videos. I also hugely appreciate all the art and illustration from different media you include as a form of world building that goes above and beyond showing the gameplay by itself. That extends to when you show articles and the like through the Wayback Machine or some archives. It does an excellent job of applying the "show dont tell" mantra to something like a historical video game retrospective and makes everything more compelling and real. I havent seen that nearly as much in most other game retrospectives on youtube. It's clear you put a mammoth amount of effort and research into producing these and I'd like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart! I hope you enjoy making these videos anywhere close to how much I enjoy watching them. Also, I hope it pleases you to know that your videos just keep getting better and better, so it really feels like youre honing your craft! Cheers!
OMG the effort you must put into producing such well documented, high quality and LONG videos must be monumental! Thank you so much for going to such lengths and making so good content.
I just ran through this game again and I still loved it. That world, man. I'd love to go back one day on a new adventure. Considering how much I loved the voice cast Larian used for BG3, I'd be spoiled if they decided to do a game in that setting in the future.
Maybe a small DLC adventure to tie into the tabletop relaunch or something 🤔
I don't really want a remake of Torment, not because i'm afraid they'll "ruin" it but because its such a lightning in a bottle example of keeping everything open ended enough for the story to be interpreted and experienced in so many ways.
Like its not "'this studio can't do it", I don't think anyone can do it. But I do wan't to see another game set in Sigil. Though even then I don't think it can be rendered properly on a realistic budget. It'd be an expensive game, and expensive games end up written by a boardroom of shortsighted execs who are too worried of turning off a quadrant of the market to say anything substantial.
@@MrEdders123 I mean the epilogue for BG3 has all but guaranteed that the unification of the Githyanki and Githzerai is next on the agenda, and the fact that Avellon had been planning something similar with Dak'kon as a continuation, we will probably be seeing Dak'kon and the setting return, and Avellon himself based on his previous experience working with Larian on DOS2.
@@abdalln8554- Art controlled by executive committee, distorted by a publisher to be “marketable,” is not really art at all, is it? The final product is just that - a product. Looking around at the gaming industry today there is not much hope for another game based in Sigil. We seem to be drowning in mediocrity.
@@ColdHawk So like uh, we agree.
Tbh the only way I can see a planescape game with as much breadth as fits the setting is if the graphics were scaled back a console gen or two while still letting the game have the development time of an AAA game.
Capital G gamers would blow a gasket for the former and execs would skin you for the latter. So ripperoni jabroni.
This is my one of my favorite CRPGs of all time. The hard work you put into this honours you, sir
Planecape does not need much introduction to the seasoned player. I love your work. You're really doing these games justice (even if it's Decent to Undermountain).
I watched your DTUM video last night from yt autoplay and thought damn, this guy has the perfect formula for how I like my retrospectives, where you actually talk about the history of the development, the context of the time, media from the time etc, rather than the ego stroking "I played this old game for the first time and this is what I think about it for 12 redundant hours" from some other channels that I will not name here. It feels far more professional, calculated and organized like a real piece of old school gaming media. Came to see if you had anything else and see this, perfect timing! thanks for the content Mr.Edder. You're definitely gonna get bigger in this space.
Long-form review and analysis videos like these are like finding treasure. Your passion for video game journalism and attention to lore details shows. Thank you very much for bringing us this work of art.
Absolutely incredible (so far) the first hour flew by. Can't wait to finish the rest.
I just found your channel, and it feels like I’ve struck gold. These retrospective video series are soooo nostalgic and bring back so many memories and emotions, THANK YOU! (That’s not even mentioning the depth, information, and every single detail you keenly cover. Every video is so well done!!)
10.8k subs, and 10.2k views after 23h. Such loyalty is rare, it has to be said.
I've watched a bunch of video essays on PS:T (it's one of my favourite games) but this was by far the most comprehensive and interesting, and I'm blown away by how much I learned about this game and it's development. Magnificent job!
Man, oh man. This is incredible. It’s as weighty as a Master’s Thesis. I am struggling to grasp the level of carefully detailed research here. It is easy to see how, in the future this may actually form the backbone of some budding Historian’s doctoral work. Drilling down into the thoughts and motivations of individuals who contributed, and the commentary regarding the influence of trends, themes and issues affecting the industry made this compelling for me. (I am surprised at how much I enjoyed these elements.) Well done!
just commenting to hopefully bring some more attention to this channel which totally deserves it. Your retrospectives and analyses really show these older games in not only their relative gaming context, but also their social and cultural contexts as well which makes me appreciate them even more.
Thanks! My Nox review will analyze the story in the context of the Kosovo War of 1998-1999.
@@MrEdders123 was that meant to be about a game or the actual history ?
@@Jean-uw4tz lol
Im so glad that i found your channel.
Love that you dig up old forum posts, interviews etc.
I have never finished Planescape, think i got halfways trough, but i want to go back and try again someday.
Want more RPGS with wierd worlds and designs.
A five and a half hour long retrospective of one of my favourite games?! Hell yes!
Even before watching i can say, that the more time pass, the more Planescape Torment is appreciated. Almost 5 hours and 40 minutes (and probably hundred hours to make this video) says a lot, the longest on YT. For me clearly this is far more than a game or book. This is work of art, I can say even a masterpiece in it's own core elements.
Thank you.
Time is not your enemy, Forever is.
This is THE Planescape video. Combining the best of those who have covered the lore of Planescape like AJ Picket and Michael Snow, with the reviews of the game by Mortismal and Strat-Edgy.
Thank you for this, for being part of the passionate fanbase of this oft neglected and half remembered setting that has yet to truely show its potential off the tabletop.
You've been my my sleeping soundtrack for 3 months now, thanks so much you really are the best retrospective maker in my eyes. Greatly appreciated.
The amount of work put into this is incredible. And it shows, too. What a video. Well done!
Finally finished this incredibly thorough video. Amazing work.
You never know when youre living in the good old days. Hearing that critique of a lack of quality control for a full priced product was surreal. Now reviewers give a game a 10 and say "hopefully some patches will be coming soon". Great vid. Much easier to appreciate this game in the modern day. Its really something and always was.
Gamers will preorder a game from a studio that's known for releasing broken games, the game will release with only the cash shop functioning right, they'll complain about it for like 5 minutes, and then say "guys its fixed now, and the battlepass is great!"
As much as corprorate reviewers have a perverse incentive to fluff up games or risk studios ignoring them. Studio execs themselves have been given more incentives by us consumers to not provide as whole of a product anymore. The ideal game to them are gacha/slot machine games, but thankfully we atleast expect something better for now lol.
This is possibly THE definitive video on Planescape: Torment, I've watched a fair number of the others and not many of them delve into the game's development and background with such detailed exanimation of the minutiae. Your criticism, research and presentation is incredibly interesting and well written, and I look forward to more videos. Thank you!
I wouldn't say definitive hehe, ideal video would have consulted more team members, and there are big gaps, like exactly what happened between Avellone originally pitching his idea in his job interview and 96/97. There are probably many more concept sketches/design docs lying around someone's old office. I hope one day some more details on the cancelled Planescape projects (e.g. Zeb Cook's) come out too :)
@@MrEdders123 Indeed, there's probably still more gold in these hills, hopefully the new Planescape release in 5e reignites interest in P:T?
It'd be wild if someone like Larian could get a hold of the IP and the license from Wizards to create a new title set in the Outer Planes 🤔
And then of course, an officially funded retrospective/documentary that could dig into all the details that are hard to get access to for the general public. A man can dream ☺
Dude! We've all been waiting for this. Thank you - so rad.
I have been waiting for your next content and have been replaying this masterpiece just today! I'm glad someone as you remembered about this gem and made video for it
Loved this game so much as a teen.
Great video.
Also could listen to the soundtrack for ages
"What can change the nature of a man"
I also love that you play the originals for these videos. I still play them also -- a certain charm. In the case of BG1, superior sprites as well. Lilura's CRPG blog is a great resource for these games.
Your whole channel is amazing. I have been a big fan of infinity engine games for years and because of your videos I learned a lot of information I wasn't aware of before. Keep up the good work, sir!
5 hour review on my favorite CRPG of all time? Yes please and thank you! :D
It’s just dawned on me that for nearly 25 years I’ve been misreading the title of this game as “PLANETscape”. Only realised I was wrong when I heard it said out loud in this video
It's been referred to as "Planetescape" or "Planescape Tournament" quite a few times, to the point calling it "Planetescape Tournament 2k4" became a bit of a running joke.
I'm not even half through, but, I couldn't be happier with another well researched old game documentary. I don't have enough praise, and it's praise you certainly deserve. Well done, just well done.
Ah. Torn. Torn was the first game I really followed prior to . . . A release that never came. A grand series of Torn what ifs have occupied my brain over the years. For some reason I have a, possibly incorrect, memory of its protagonist being described as "accident prone on a cataclysmic level." That always captured my interest, regardless of accuracy.
I had just finished your Ultima The Savage Empire retrospective when I saw the notification for your next upload and a wave of bliss conquered me😂😍
what a meticulously crafted review. im only one hour in and the amount of background information you present is stunning. i loved your other videos as well and i hope you get the recognition you deserve as one of the top long form review channels. best of luck mate.
Some of the best Retrospective reviews of games on UA-cam... cracking content as always
Thank you for making this video, I love the Planescape setting and this got me into it. It was just so different, strange and made you feel like anything could happen, I got a taste of it in the game and I wanted more. I would've loved to have more Planescape games, I'm sad to see they never got made. I'm still not excited for the promise of new stuff from WotC, everything they've released for a good while has been terrible in my opinion. I'm glad to hear you're going to make shorter videos though I like your long-form content as well, thanks for showing my favorite setting so much love. Can't wait for the next videos. :)
I have a bunch of painting to do, a 5.5 hour video is exactly what I needed!
Have been waiting for this retrospective, since the discovery of a his channel.
Your work on this video is impressive, even the montage you made for the beginning of the video is incredible !
This is great, tysm! I just cannot get myself to play these old games but I love their depth, vibe and stories so much. I could never experience them anywhere close to as well without you and other channels that to retrospectives and similar this in-depth I really appreciate that.
I want to tell you I really appreciate you doing these part-review, part historical studies. They are entertaining, informative, and critical. I had more or less gotten to a point where I'd given up on anything longer than an hour claiming to be "analysis" because it was almost guaranteed to be a guy quite literally summarizing the plot and interjecting a quip every three minutes or so. I really enjoy your well-researched and scholarly perspectives that have a respect for the material (though the odd bit of humor does not go amiss, e.g. 2:43:10 ). Thank you.
Damn you make some of the best retrospectives.
now knowing i was robbed of a world where i could get a kings field style black isle rpg is immensly saddening... at least shadow tower exists to kind of fill that gap
A truly incredible review - well done !!
So I watched 10 mins of this video and bought the game last night.
I just found.. dammit I cannot remember his name, old man in the buried village, sends you to the catacombs.
I then got teleported by a rat/human..... and I'm stuck.
So far this game has been massively interesting and a very refreshing change of pace as I was lost in multiplayer games.
Thanks!
I waited so long for your next documentary. Thank you for your hard work.
These reviews are always a treat, thanks so much!
Uh oh did I just find another awesome retrospective channel that will keep me up all night!?
I enjoy your videos, they have a very balanced combination of historical retrospective and honest game analysis, and it the videos just have a degree of sincerity to it that its hard to come by nowadays, if that makes sense.
I enjoy to hear your videos while working, so thank you for your channel!
A late comment, but I just wanted to say you do awesome work. I missed this video because it came out around the time my daughter was born and got lost in the shuffle. I was going through my subscriptions to see what I've missed in the past year and realized I have a 5+ hour of unwatched MrEdders content and I was legitimately giddy about it. Keep it up!
Congratulations!
I just found this game and your channel last week this is really great timing
great video, like always. the amount of research is insane. well done, good Sir.
Thank you for this deeply comprehensive review, I just know it will be keeping me company during my quiet moments this week. It's always a pleasure to learn more about how one of my favorite games of all time came to be.
This video is amazing. The best video game retrospective I've ever seen. Thank you!
24:53 - fond memories playing CotNW with my Dad in the 90s, cool to hear about the connection. Very well made doc, nice editing and video sources.
Avellone and Zeb Cook both worked on that (I think Cook wrote some things for it) :)
Now it will take some time to update my journal.
Been waiting a long while for this one!
We need the Geneforge games next! Or just Spiderweb in general.
Yes! Such good games.
One of the handful games that truly deserves a 5+ hour video essay treatment, along with the original Deus Ex, Fallout 1 and 2 and Arcanum. Thank you for making this, sir , your videos are always very informative and interesting.
Fantastic. I live for this stuff, kudos on the excellent retrospective. Looking forward to your future essays.
Kismet. I just finished watching your BG2 analysis last night, and today you dropped another economy size banger. Cheers dude.
MrEdders123 You are my favorite UA-camr, and your videos are just amazing.
Well researched and well structured. This is grade A content!
I cannot view the entirety of the video now. I want to give you a tenner for this! You finally did it! Thank you so much!
Finally finished this one. I must say, if there was such a thing as a critical magnum opus, THIS would be it. Bare none, one of the most in-depth, well-written critical reviews of the UA-cam age. I may not agree on Edders' stance on the Enhanced Editions, but my god, his videos are amazing. Bravo!
Y’all he’s back!
Seriously your videos are always a welcome notification.
Just recently got into the CRPG craze, started playing Disco Elysium, and was blown away by its systems. And then of course I find a 5 hour documentary on one of the staples of the genre. Thank you for your hard work, it doesn't go unnoticed. Subscribed.
Thanks!
Holy shit, a 5 hour planescape retrospec. I love you man!
Campanella's journey from 2D to creating beautiful works of 3D art is very inspiring and wholesome. We all learnt on the job.
Within game dev, we had periods and episodes where we adapted and readapted to completely new tools, libraries, languages, techniques and interpersonal skills. I am glad I don't have to make games anymore as games were and still are a disorganized jumble of messy ideas and techniques through chaotic productions, but going through this video brought back some mild nostalgia. Thank you, Edders.
I literally just subbed after watching some of your videos, I wrapped up your BG2 video today and was thinking about how excited I was for this to drop
An Epic Retrospective which i thank you from the bottom of my heart!
I can only imagine the titanic effort you did to search for answers and materials to put it together which would have taken days, weeks and even months.
Back in the early 2000's i got the Game from the White Label Package (BG1 too!) and explored a world unknown from anything i knew about Fantasy.
It was stressing at first keeping up with the conventions, its world, rules and laws until i felt overloaded with all the infos which ended me quitting it after some time.
Only later when i grew older and wiser, i could tackle the game again and beat it for the first time and finally appreciating for what it is.
It left me speechless and somewhat empty with its ending that felt bitter sweet and not what i thought it would be if you played similar Fantasy Games with a more "happier" ending.
Besides the Art, the Music itself captured me heavily. When i was at the Brothel, i felt somehow at peace and would actually linger there just to listen to it even though it had a melancholic twist.
Replaying it several times opened me up to new things i never knew if i didn't do things differently, like finding an item which would turn crucial for the final confrontation and changing the outcome!
I have to agree here, that it can become quite a slog due to the amount of text if you replay it several times.
I also played Tides of Numenera back then which i backed and it was also an interesting journey, but i couldn't really see it as a successor since i think it tried too hard to "emulate" PT in many ways making it feel like it hadn't its own soul. Disco Elysium on the other hand was way more interesting and i really think it captured the essence of PT but going its own way.
In the End, i really hope that in the future we get another Planescape game or something similar which offers something different than normal fantasy which we got in abundance over the last 20 years since PT. I would even be happy for a new Dark Sun Game which is also an interesting Setting rarely explored.
One last thing which is a very minor negative point about Chapter 3:1 which shows some Spoiler imo, so maybe putting an info like you did for 5:2.
Other than that i have nothing more to say and hope you continue with your marvellous retrospectives :)
Thanks very much, although the video is only a long as it is because there are so many sources to be found (interviews/other retrospectives/people who spoke to me etc.) so all I can take credit for is compiling it into a video :)
One of the greatest games of all time.
One thing that baffled me at the time was the weird hate the Infinity Engine got from the games press. Here we are in 1999, a little less than one calendar year since the first BG game come out and they are already talking about how it needs much needed improvements. And it would only get worse from there by the time Throne of Bhaal and IWD2 they were scathing with their contempt. I don't get it man, it was a great engine for RPGs.
A lot loved it, but there were "real" 3d CRPGs coming out by that point and by 2000 devs were getting hammered for 2d graphics (even when they sold well, e.g. RA2, AoE2 etc.)
I think it was because of the technological context at the time. Games graphics were seeing major leaps, with each year bringing insane improvments by developers, so there was a lot of pressure to be up to date with the "arms race" that computer graphics had become. The infinity engine was beaultiful, but a step away from the "path to progress". The same criticism was thrown at Diablo 2, which released even later in 2001 but still with pre rendered 3d graphics
Could you explain how it was a great engine for RPGs?
A lot of hype at the time for spiffy 3d graphics. I think most would agree the old 2d art aged a lot better
ironic now that these 2d games ended up aging way better than the 3d ones
2:15:00 I want to address this myth of "bad combat" - as one who has played nearly every CRPG and often returns to PT -just- for the joy of combat.
ADnD Fighters may be simple but mages elevate the experience, providing a plethora of control, healing, defensive, ranged and aoe options. Spell collecting and spell slot management is fun and its % vs basic attacks is just the right amount.
(Contrast Pillars of E's overly demanding micromanagement where you repeat the same clicks for every character for each battle which'd have worked better if more sparse or automated.)
Attacks are well paced and pop ups and voices make it easy to follow whether attacks missed or hit and how much damage each dealt. (Seems obvious? Check how many games actually achieve it.)
Devs wrote around ADnD's weaknesses Morte's taunt turns him into a tank character and TNO's early team revive ability is essential and keeps mistakes from being punishing and forcing a reload.
Quick exp or equipment is usually close by if you find yourself struggling.
(Compare BG1/2's or Neverwinter's RNG hell where you constantly reload, map after map after map, to keep your 4 HP wizard alive with no easy xp or revive in sight.)
Points of criticism would be the lack of challenging enemy tactics (as all are just bags of hp and damage), and ease of kiting (learning to get taunted enemies stuck renders most fights trivial). These are absolutely true but you can still have fun with tactics on the player side and also, most rivals, especially contemporaries, do worse.
PST and PoE both have bad combat, PST at least has nice sound effects :D
We should grab all of your videos and upload them on the Internet Archive. This is a historical stuff right there. Good job!
Been eyeing up planescape for a while now. Getting this video recommended to me just convinced me to finally pull the trigger and I'm so glad I did.
State of the Ark sent me here. Going to watch this before their podcast series.
Thanks for letting me know, I just checked it out :D
Your analysis is always so well informed and insightful! keep up the great work
Your videos are pretty epic! Thank you for putting together these deep dives!
Thanks for the fantastic review! I was especially thankful for chapter 5:1 because I haven't played Planescape: Torment but the world sounded really intriguing. I got the game after watching your video and I hope I can find some time to play it.
Bracing myself for more than five hours of Sigil being mispronounced. A true challenge to my pedantry.
Sigil's pronunciation is an in-universe thing :D
Setting's author said that both versions are correct. Makes sense when half of it's population lacks correct linguistic appendages to pronounce it.
@@TheBaca219That's something creators say for PR reasons to not piss off some of their Fans. It's obvious it's supposed to be Sigil (Sij-ill) because of it's position and purpose in the universe.
@@yan-rayiller-may8443 exactly
@@yan-rayiller-may8443 www.theweem.com/2010/09/qa-with-david-zeb-cook-2001/ Ctrl +f "sentencing a prime to death because he pronounced sigil sijil"
WOOO! Super hyped up for this one! Though I might not watch it fully, as I'm still playing -or rather reading- through it. Superb intro as usual :)
I really should've equalized the audio. Blame Interplay lol
@@MrEdders123na, audio's fine. I meant the game I'm reading through
"If you wake up to find something like this next to you, it's time to cut down the booze."
🤣
Ahhh non-PC humor of the 90s.
Particularly funny if you go back to PC Gamer/Eurogamer articles and compare them to today...
Another great CRPG! Another great retrospective! Thank you for your work!
I hope that you do more game retrospectives! This is fantastic! I just found your channel. I loved Nox! I played all of the games you have reviewed. I know I will enjoy watching your take on these games. Keep up the great work.
Finally I finished watching this video. I'm very impressed by amount of work and effort you dedicated to analyse this brilliant and unique game. I love how much information and facts you sourced and presented, but for my taste there are just too many personal opinions included. But hey - that's me. I'm just not interested in what others like or dislike based on their personal preferences, especially "professional" critics whom you quoted, they give me cringe chills. But the sea of knowledge, insights into lore and history of production were absolutely enough for me to really enjoy this labour of love. I played PT story many times science it's premiere. And it always delights me with some new aspects or interpretations based on me being older and smarter with time. The amount of text was never a problem for me, fighting mechanics didn't matter in a grander scale of story telling, when it premiered in 1999 I was a late teenager and it was truly unique and fresh experience unmatched by any previous game I tried. An unorthodox take didn't insult me even that I used to play tabletop rpgs as long as I remember because my father was a huge nerd who introduced me to pen and paper games. For me it's not "only" a game but a true interactive and immersive piece of thought provoking art. Even if some of fans conclusions may be considered far-fetched, pretentious or unintentional everyone should remember that the receiver is the one who holds the keys to interpretation, not the creator. When work is finished intentions of it's maker do not matter anymore. Thank you so much for taking time to give this game a spotlight. I truly hope younger people will be interested in playing it thanks to your efforts. And I truly envy them because I would love to play PT for a first time again.
Thank you for making this video. I loved every hour of it. Damn thing took me two days to watch, but it was worth it. I’m a massive Planescape fan, and I really appreciate how well researched this piece was, and how you demonstrate a very detailed knowledge of the Planescape setting.
This is one of the most important classic CRPGs in history, and one of my favorites. Great story, charismatic characters, decent role-playing system and best of all; a comic but deep narrative. Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite video games. A great, great classic from Black Isle Studios. Thank you very much for this extensive analysis, I am going to enjoy it very much!! :)
I watched all of it, on the course of several days. Not used to comment in YT but I had to say a big Thank You for for research, and efforts to make this extensive retrospective on one of my fav game of all time.
You're welcome dawg