All the prices in the Nkt now have rocked up. Your well out of date in your prices agenda. Their worse now than years back, there structure now in targeting students has expanded & they still deceive people, Big Time.
No, mindfulness will NOT lead to compassion, nor is it brining liberation from samsara. It's a tool so you are no longer controlled by the content of random thoughts because you have learned to let them go without getting hooked by the content of some random throught and creating an endless chain of afterthoughts about that topic, that's all. It's a good basis if you want to enhance compassion with contemplative techniques to foster more compassion in your mind, but in itself mindfullness can at best give you peace of mind within the worldly realm. For that reason after attaining shamata (restful mind) you need to continue with vipasshana (insight meditation to gain direct insight into the true nature of reality, emptiness nature of reality) and meditation on compassion if you want to go the spiritual route. But of course you can use shamata for totally worldly goals like being a more effective manager. Or sniper. Motivation is everything.
Agree. Motivation is the key. Buddha taught out of compassion, even if his first inclination was not to teach and live the life of a solitary ascetic. A knife can be used in many ways: by a cook, by a surgeon, by a thief, by a carpenter...
It’s not Buddhism, it’s Guruism, if such a word exists. There is mention of the 4 Noble Truths fleetingly, but nothing I recall about the Noble Eightfold Path. I try and follow the advice the Buddha gave to the householder but I don’t attend any place. I read and lead my life.
To a certain extent I’m starting to think that individuals who are perceived as antisocial by society, are indeed the only ones who have a "hint" of free will; in contrast to “normal” born people. If one views such individuals as misprogrammed by nature, one could also view them as individuals who lack any restrictive programming and in that respect are truly free. So, in a unintelligible way, I think that they are enlightened. Which, on the other hand, makes the whole concept of enlightenment absurd... lol
it is a very interesting point - a few people are non-social rather than antisocial. To be free from remorse is a particular freedom, but that comes without the capability to feel love (especially for yourself, if you're a vulnerable narcissist, and have replaced love with the addiction to adulation). I'm not a believer in enlightenment, but I am sure we can be better. And to be happy, I think we have to be better (unless we're schizoidal or have some deficit of emotion), which means being aware of the rights and needs of others and doing something to satisfy those rights and needs. I'm also sure that antisocial people are always free of companionship, of friendship and of all but momentary satisfaction. Hubbard, Moon, Rajneesh and so many others lived in constant fear of discovery. They experienced very little satisfaction.
Such a powerful and toxic idea when applied to another human being: "just" a mara, therefore not to be valued and dangerous to even listen to. Not even real, just an illusion. Not to be helped, just to be kept at arm's length. Totally dismissible, and even guilt-inducing. If you start to feel convinced by anything they say, it's further evidence that you need to run home and practice more.
Spike here - in my little cult, most everyone who wasn't in our tiny group was a "construct" - that is, a body without any soul, just put there to keep the world running while we waited for the Great Cataclysm, when Atlantis would rise, the Illuminati would welcome our leader as their new master, and we would take our place as the rulers of the world. In the meantime, anything anyone said to us - professors, parents, former friends - was to be disregarded, unless it could be twisted to serve the leader's message. What could possibly go wrong?
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 hi Spike, wow that's a really overt case of it. How do you get a soul? From the leader? I experienced various degrees of 'people with dust in their eyes' like Jon mentions here. More subtle but the long term effect is the same.
@@gobiwaq I'm not sure how folks got a soul, as our theology (such as it was) changed day to day. We were more like a street gang with Tarot decks instead of switchblades than the 'magickal order' we claimed to be; beliefs changed rapidly depending on what fevered imaginings went on in the man's head, bolstered with the music of Nine Inch Nails and various sci-fi and fantasy franchises, along with whatever drugs he was on at the time. It was quite a wild little journey, only lasting 2 - 3 years and involving less than a dozen people. Jon wants me to tell my tale sometime for our channel, but I'd like to do some other vids with him first, as doubtless some of the more bizarre elements might make folks think I was totally insane, especially if that was their first introduction to me! The 'dust in their eyes' quote is one of my favorites, and one that Jon often quotes me when I'm feeling discouraged and wondering just what the holy heck I'm doing with my life. He's a good boss and a great friend.
The first time I saw someone call me a mara online, I felt completely dehumanised, demonised, not just a no'body' but someone they wished would go away and die quietly
It would be interesting if someone made some research about how NKT come to be. The so called Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was invited to their root center, Manjusrhri, Cumbria, by two other lamas, Lama Yeshe, now passed away, and his disciple, Lama Zopa Rinpoche. Actually Geshe Kelsang was not the only Geshe there, but at a certain point, that Geshe decided to leave to go back to India. Geshe Kelsang also at some point in the 80s of last century decided not to get along with any other Tibetan lama and soon after his disciples were discouraged to attend other Buddhist teacher's teachings, retreats and so on. Many people were in a difficult position at that time, being disciples of other lamas, like Lama Yeshe or other Buddhist teachers from other traditions. Of courses people who attend a course today are not aware of this long history. Usually Tibetan lamas love to invite their teachers and also lama-mates, so to speak, to their centers to teach and give blessings. In the NKT you will not hear of any other teacher than G.K.G or his disciples. Is it not funny?
Thanks for this bit of history! To answer the final "is it not funny?", well, only if you don't know that NKT is a destructive, insular, authoritarian group. Groups that are not authoritarian are happy to welcome all sorts of like minded (and even not so like-minded) people, and will not mind their members reading whatever they want and taking their wisdom from whatever they want. But in an authoritarian group, only the leader's teachings are valid, only the group's practices are allowed, and no one else is welcome to teach or lead.
it's amazing (and dismaying) to see to what lengths folks will go to blame the victim. My least favorite manifestation of this is the belief prevalent in New Age/Neo-Pagan thought that you *choose your parents* . As if Rose and Fred West's kids, in some inter-life dimension, said, "let's get born to a couple of murderous rapists; that sounds like a good life lesson!" or every crack baby actually *decided* they wished to life a life of pain and debilitation, or even all the kids born to poverty, or abuse, or being killed simply because they're a second or third child in China, just chose that for some reason. It's a viewpoint totally lacking in reason or compassion. /i rant over
@@lronhubbard8031 lol, I was born to a devout atheist mother and a born-again agnostic father. So, at five years old, I ran to my mother shouting 'look - someone you don't believe in is making it snow!' She was suitably amused.
@@lronhubbard8031 mine aren't slimy, particularly. They're just eccentric freethinkers, which is where I get it from, I suppose! :D Oh! you were talking about the snails, weren't you? Yes, well, due to the fact that I used to keep snails as pets, Jon and I have had Words about his ongoing vendetta against the gastropods in his garden. He claims they're eating his tomatoes, but, as I point out, he and his family also enjoy the tomatoes, so, why this feud?
All the prices in the Nkt now have rocked up. Your well out of date in your prices agenda. Their worse now than years back, there structure now in targeting students has expanded & they still deceive people, Big Time.
Jon, the concept of Budhha in Mahayana-Vajrayana is not the same as the Theravada one or the historical one.
No, mindfulness will NOT lead to compassion, nor is it brining liberation from samsara. It's a tool so you are no longer controlled by the content of random thoughts because you have learned to let them go without getting hooked by the content of some random throught and creating an endless chain of afterthoughts about that topic, that's all.
It's a good basis if you want to enhance compassion with contemplative techniques to foster more compassion in your mind, but in itself mindfullness can at best give you peace of mind within the worldly realm. For that reason after attaining shamata (restful mind) you need to continue with vipasshana (insight meditation to gain direct insight into the true nature of reality, emptiness nature of reality) and meditation on compassion if you want to go the spiritual route. But of course you can use shamata for totally worldly goals like being a more effective manager. Or sniper. Motivation is everything.
Agree. Motivation is the key. Buddha taught out of compassion, even if his first inclination was not to teach and live the life of a solitary ascetic. A knife can be used in many ways: by a cook, by a surgeon, by a thief, by a carpenter...
Lovely! A special thank you to Sam for asking the exact questions I wanted answers to. Well done all!
Thank you! That's what I hoped to do. Michelle was such an excellent guest.
It’s not Buddhism, it’s Guruism, if such a word exists. There is mention of the 4 Noble Truths fleetingly, but nothing I recall about the Noble Eightfold Path. I try and follow the advice the Buddha gave to the householder but I don’t attend any place. I read and lead my life.
*Please Read newest comment's on here first.*
To a certain extent I’m starting to think that individuals who are perceived as antisocial by society, are indeed the only ones who have a "hint" of free will; in contrast to “normal” born people. If one views such individuals as misprogrammed by nature, one could also view them as individuals who lack any restrictive programming and in that respect are truly free. So, in a unintelligible way, I think that they are enlightened. Which, on the other hand, makes the whole concept of enlightenment absurd... lol
it is a very interesting point - a few people are non-social rather than antisocial. To be free from remorse is a particular freedom, but that comes without the capability to feel love (especially for yourself, if you're a vulnerable narcissist, and have replaced love with the addiction to adulation). I'm not a believer in enlightenment, but I am sure we can be better. And to be happy, I think we have to be better (unless we're schizoidal or have some deficit of emotion), which means being aware of the rights and needs of others and doing something to satisfy those rights and needs. I'm also sure that antisocial people are always free of companionship, of friendship and of all but momentary satisfaction. Hubbard, Moon, Rajneesh and so many others lived in constant fear of discovery. They experienced very little satisfaction.
Such a powerful and toxic idea when applied to another human being: "just" a mara, therefore not to be valued and dangerous to even listen to. Not even real, just an illusion. Not to be helped, just to be kept at arm's length. Totally dismissible, and even guilt-inducing. If you start to feel convinced by anything they say, it's further evidence that you need to run home and practice more.
Spike here - in my little cult, most everyone who wasn't in our tiny group was a "construct" - that is, a body without any soul, just put there to keep the world running while we waited for the Great Cataclysm, when Atlantis would rise, the Illuminati would welcome our leader as their new master, and we would take our place as the rulers of the world. In the meantime, anything anyone said to us - professors, parents, former friends - was to be disregarded, unless it could be twisted to serve the leader's message. What could possibly go wrong?
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 hi Spike, wow that's a really overt case of it. How do you get a soul? From the leader?
I experienced various degrees of 'people with dust in their eyes' like Jon mentions here. More subtle but the long term effect is the same.
@@gobiwaq I'm not sure how folks got a soul, as our theology (such as it was) changed day to day. We were more like a street gang with Tarot decks instead of switchblades than the 'magickal order' we claimed to be; beliefs changed rapidly depending on what fevered imaginings went on in the man's head, bolstered with the music of Nine Inch Nails and various sci-fi and fantasy franchises, along with whatever drugs he was on at the time. It was quite a wild little journey, only lasting 2 - 3 years and involving less than a dozen people. Jon wants me to tell my tale sometime for our channel, but I'd like to do some other vids with him first, as doubtless some of the more bizarre elements might make folks think I was totally insane, especially if that was their first introduction to me!
The 'dust in their eyes' quote is one of my favorites, and one that Jon often quotes me when I'm feeling discouraged and wondering just what the holy heck I'm doing with my life. He's a good boss and a great friend.
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 that's great, look forward to watching!
The first time I saw someone call me a mara online, I felt completely dehumanised, demonised, not just a no'body' but someone they wished would go away and die quietly
It would be interesting if someone made some research about how NKT come to be. The so called Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was invited to their root center, Manjusrhri, Cumbria, by two other lamas, Lama Yeshe, now passed away, and his disciple, Lama Zopa Rinpoche. Actually Geshe Kelsang was not the only Geshe there, but at a certain point, that Geshe decided to leave to go back to India. Geshe Kelsang also at some point in the 80s of last century decided not to get along with any other Tibetan lama and soon after his disciples were discouraged to attend other Buddhist teacher's teachings, retreats and so on. Many people were in a difficult position at that time, being disciples of other lamas, like Lama Yeshe or other Buddhist teachers from other traditions. Of courses people who attend a course today are not aware of this long history. Usually Tibetan lamas love to invite their teachers and also lama-mates, so to speak, to their centers to teach and give blessings. In the NKT you will not hear of any other teacher than G.K.G or his disciples. Is it not funny?
Thanks for this bit of history! To answer the final "is it not funny?", well, only if you don't know that NKT is a destructive, insular, authoritarian group. Groups that are not authoritarian are happy to welcome all sorts of like minded (and even not so like-minded) people, and will not mind their members reading whatever they want and taking their wisdom from whatever they want. But in an authoritarian group, only the leader's teachings are valid, only the group's practices are allowed, and no one else is welcome to teach or lead.
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 I should have added something like irony one 😉
@@acgracia0220 Oh! sorry... Jon often chides me for what he calls my 'American' inability to detect irony. I'm compelled to agree... ;)
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 😉😘
"Karma" always blame the victim.
it's amazing (and dismaying) to see to what lengths folks will go to blame the victim. My least favorite manifestation of this is the belief prevalent in New Age/Neo-Pagan thought that you *choose your parents* . As if Rose and Fred West's kids, in some inter-life dimension, said, "let's get born to a couple of murderous rapists; that sounds like a good life lesson!" or every crack baby actually *decided* they wished to life a life of pain and debilitation, or even all the kids born to poverty, or abuse, or being killed simply because they're a second or third child in China, just chose that for some reason. It's a viewpoint totally lacking in reason or compassion. /i rant over
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 I was born to a devout catholic mother and an atheist father mum "go to church" father "wait until he becomes an adult".
@@lronhubbard8031 lol, I was born to a devout atheist mother and a born-again agnostic father. So, at five years old, I ran to my mother shouting 'look - someone you don't believe in is making it snow!' She was suitably amused.
the realms that was like what (hell) lol theres one freezing cold think they mean manchester
LOL, or Vermont. I'm on the cold side of the jetstream!
Spike here; I'd like to thank Sam for being so patient and letting me put his head on a Buddha.
when evening fell sam stood noticing he had 108 snails on his head.
@@lronhubbard8031 LOL!!!! I dunno; the way they treat snails in the Atack garden, I'd be worried...
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 slimy parents
@@lronhubbard8031 mine aren't slimy, particularly. They're just eccentric freethinkers, which is where I get it from, I suppose! :D
Oh! you were talking about the snails, weren't you? Yes, well, due to the fact that I used to keep snails as pets, Jon and I have had Words about his ongoing vendetta against the gastropods in his garden. He claims they're eating his tomatoes, but, as I point out, he and his family also enjoy the tomatoes, so, why this feud?
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 no offence intended snails/slimy