If you're on your own writing or worldbuilding journey, make sure to sign up for my free weekly newsletter which is packed with practical advice and strategies on key elements, from character development and plot structuring to creating immersive fantasy worlds: thetaletinkerer.com/newsletter
Or, people could simply collaborate both strategically and effectively. 💪😎✌️ 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ --Diamond Dragons (series)
You’re forgetting type 6! Unmedicated ADHD: the ability to synergize and rapidly develop the skills of all 5 categories but the physical inability to see any story through lol
There’s a sixth option: the prose demon. Patrick Rothfuss is a way better example of this than he is of a character-driven author. Also, you can point to folks like Guy Gavriel Kay or Susana Clarke. There’s fantasy authors out there that spend weeks and weeks fixating on every word, trying to make it sound perfect. They don’t write “fantasy,” they write proper literature, just with fantasy elements. At some point, it seems more likely that they’re writing narrative poetry, than a fantasy novel. The big issue with them is that they’re perfectionists and don’t finish projects because they get too deep in the weeds. See Patrick Rothfuss’s Doors of Stone or that Susana Clarke has only ever published two books. That said, when they do finish something, it’s beautiful. It might be a bit strange, content-wise, and the worldbuilding might be a bit shallow, but the words are magnetic.
I think you can further generalize these things in just writers in general outside of Fantasy. Setting (What you call Worldbuilding) - Focused on the particulars within the setting. Characters - Focuses on Fleshing out the Actors Plot - Focuses on the structure of the Narrative Themes (What you call Myths) - Focuses on symbols and iconography Mechanics (What you call Magic Systems) - Focuses on the minuate details of a process, hobby, study etc can also apply to technology, whodunnit mysteries, or politics. I'd add a 6th category. Aesthetics - Focuses more on the "vibe" or the feel of the work, the atmosphere etc
I’m a lot more character focused. The way I’ve gotten myself to world build is to write something about the world as if written by a character of the world. For me the world serves the characters
This really helped me settle on a direction for a story I’ve been tinkering with for months. I can leverage my world building and love of myths to create an anthology of shorter fantasy tales that eventually may (or may not) tie together. Thank you!!
I'm glad to hear that the video inspired / helped you move forward with your own story - thanks for leaving the feedback, that is always one of the greatest things to read underneath a video :-)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Flattering but I'm still struggling through my first draft so I'm not sure if I'm excelling at anything at the moment lol But I have at least been writing and thinking about writing craft for most of my life so there's that.
You're welcome - I had this one in mind for a while but wasn't sure if it provided enough real value for people. But then I started to find enough angles where I felt it could be helpful 🙂
I'm definitely #2 with a dash of #5 and a pinch of #3 lol I highly value structual integrity in narrative and can be a bit of a stickler for logic and internal consistency with my stories, but more than anything, my stories are driven by my character.
So basically learning to use all these in the right amount to balance your strengths and weaknesses is the key to great storytelling. Even great writers tend to be off balanced and suit only their target audience
What is more interesting to me than finding how I fit into this is how you are constructing your perceived limitations of fantasy as a genre within a set of archetypes. A person who is fascinated by narrative themes can be working from mythology, or they can work from philosophy, personal experience, or even just a sense of curiosity and experimentation. A person who is interested in magic can do so through systematization and explanation, or they can do so through expression of emotion, cultural history, spirituality and belief, or just as an analogy for experiences and practices that have defined their life. To me, this demonstrates the way that fantasy as a genre has been reified by a fandom who unreasonably elevate the work of a few authors seen as foundational to its identity.
I am very much 1 and 4, but am trying to learn more about 2 and 3. I have put developing my skills at 5 on a backburner by focussing on low fantasy for the time being.
You treat us writers with so much kindness! 😂 very positive approach. I'm definitely a type 4 symbolist-mythological type, trying to get everything not so tight as not to make it boring while having plot twists and progression well planned, so a bit of type 3 too.
I'm Tzeentch, the everchanging. I'm sometimes like this, sometimes like that. I get lost in small details which I get facinated with in the heat of the moment. Sometimes it is a quircky dialogue between my weird characters, sometimes a certian aspect of the world, sometimes some unexpected plot twist, or it is just some fun fact which I learn about the daily life of the medieval people trough my writing journey. I'm prone to get lost in one aspect of the writing and I tend to forget about the others. So I need to revisit what I wrote regurarly to fill the missing details. I'm slowly getting better at it though.
I'm a mix of #5 and #2 with a dash of #1. I love to come up with fun characters that can showcase different aspects of my magic systems, while also having complex relationships with each other (that are often heavily affected by the magic system as well). I often have trouble with coming up with actual plot events and pacing within the broader story arcs though. Also I spend way too much time on politics.
Mix of #2 and #4 for me. Love telling sagas about epic, complex characters, with tons of references to old myths, eastern ideas, and classic western literature.
That definitely is ideal, yes, and having that is for sure very helpful, as I tried to convey in the video. But I did find it interesting to break it down because it really does make a difference knowing where your personal focus lies, and what strengths and challenges that brings - at least for me it was helpful 🙂
100% I'm a character driven writer. My first drafts are always centered around the characters in the scene. Afterwards I have to flesh out everything else to add sensory information and create a sense of place. I get complimented a lot on my characters feeling real and engaging. Conversations and arguments? I've got a knack for those. It's the things that no one comments on that I know are my weaknesses. I'm realizing I need to pull back and think of the world, its magic, and its political structures as their own characters that interact with and profoundly shape the people I'm writing about. I have to think about the specific arcs I need characters to experience and how they will intertwine with each other. If I don't, it's all too easy for me to get sidetracked and let a subset of characters go off and bond with one another. Often, they end up finding connection and resolving emotional issues in interesting ways. But, they don't advance the plot at all. Planning the story beats ahead is turning out to be of paramount importance so I can carefully choose moments for this emotional bonding and growth so that it coincides with key moments in the bigger story. I need to choose who learns what and when ahead of time so that all the secondary characters can grow alongside the main characters without constantly splitting the narrative in opposing directions.
I feel like I’m a mix of all these but I would lean towards world building and character development. I also do artwork for my stories so sketching characters is a big thing for me!
His advice about setting a time limit for world building truly works. I did this with my current WIP. I gave myself two weeks to build enough to get started and then I had to either zero draft or plot sketch. After a few weeks I could give myself a weekend of connecting the dots of all the random things I'd made up along the way and all of a sudden I had a growing, deepening world along with a plot. I actually had to give up on the world bible thing. I was spending all my effort on making it as complete as possible, and was using it to avoid the hard part, which for me is plotting and drafting.
Somehow, I'm all of these types either by force or by choice. I became a dialog/character driven author out of necessity since it seemed like the best way to engage the reader, I absolutely love worldbuilding, developing both complex magic systems, settings, myths, etc, and of course the plot cannot be forgotten either, so I know I cannot neglect it. In short, I'm somehow a balance of all 5 writer types.
Thank you for the amazing feedback - I really appreciate it. This was a bit of a test, especially weaving in this much "story", so I'm glad to see that the initial reception seems to be quite well 🙂
I'm totally a worldbuilder, with a minor in plot architect. I love coming up with wild, grand and sweeping world concepts, and then obsessing over the political interplay between factions. My dialogue suffers as a result (unless I REALLY dig a character). Also I don't sweat the smaller details (someone at work asked me what the exact military chain of command was for a major faction, and looked at me like I was an alien when I told him I hadn't made that).
I actually thought this was true for me as well, but the more I refined the script for the video based on research, the more I started to notice that I actually have a hard time to put myself into one category. Hopefully, this means I'm starting to be more well-rounded rather than just bad at everything 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer Epic. It’s always nice to look back and see how you’ve improved. Like when you read some old thing that’s been sat in the back of your drive and say, “Wow, this is awful. I can’t believe I was actually proud of this.” Then you realize your standards and skills have improved like CrAzY! I’m getting better at characters and pacing, and right now I think I’ve master them, but I’m certain I’ll look back on it in a month and facepalm. Wish I could speed up the process, but oh well! 🤷♂️
I do a little of all 5, but mostly magic systems and characters...I actually struggle to write main plots for my stories because I'm too busy crafting the individual magic elements and character backstories, and imagining all the cool things someone can do with my universe's magic. I'm a lifelong superhero & fantasy fan, so cool characters doing dope stuff is my bread and butter. Political intrigue? Never met him. But in truth I'm the ADHD writer who never gets out of the outline phase.
I think I’m a combination of world builder, myth builder, and magic system enthusiast. And my biggest weakness is probbaly info dumping. I have a pretty good understanding of plot and character development (not enough to be categorized as a master in the other categories) but I struggle with giving too much information at once, or spoiling plot twists. I just feel like everything I make on my world is important. (And it usually is because I’m compelled for everything to be connected to the plot somehow) I just need to figure out WHEN to introduce them. My first story draft basically had everything important introduced in the first few pages/season so I’m trying to spread things out but it’s so HARD to stay silent on certain things.
Im definitely a world builder and a plot architect and I suffer from not really knowing who my characters are until the story reveals them and this tends to slow me down when it comes to character development because I feel like if they are a meaningful character than they should have a compelling arch that contributes to the overall story without being contrived, it can be difficult especially when I have been developing my magic system for a while now so that it makes sense and is believable while also maintaining that atmosphere of mystery.
Truly feeling like a worldbuilder and plot architect means there is a lot of structure in you - that is a good thing! Lean in to that and make it the solution to your character problems. As suggested in the video (at least I hope I did actually mention it in there ^^) one of the ways for plot architects to craft more engaging characters is to create a character arc alongside the plotting - ensuring that the evolution of the character makes sense and supports whatever direction the character takes 🙂
I am somewhere between Type two and three. Love character writing, dialogue, pacing and thematic narrative. But I'm kinda lost in the worldbuilding and myths, mostly thinking It just superficially.
My writing style does have aspect of character developing, because all of my characters move off page. No NPCs in my world, sorry Twitter users. While I also do have mythological weaving, especially when I’ll publish my next book. The Strongest element in my writing style is subtlety because I can hide foreshadow within character dialogues, character, actions, descriptions, one of the jokes, names of characters, and even within spells.
I love writing magic systems or building history for some tales, while others have literally wrote themselves because of the characters. I have some knowledge of mythology both Norse and Greco-Roman (I personally prefer the Greek names; why call them Mars, Diana, or Vulcan when Ares, Artemis and Hephestus are available? Zeus is much more interesting than Jupiter.) The stories where I have the world and/or the magic system often feature a rough plot outline as well, with minute details still to be explored. I guess I am more towards worldbuilding, characters, and magic with a bit of lore and a dabble of plot. I tell myself the skeletal storyline before writing to test out the idea. Any revisions can be made there before I get too invested in one aspect.
I’m almost certain that I’m the second type of writer, since all I ever do is focus on my characters, and then try to build a story or universe around them, which is actually meant to be space opera like Star Wars.
I really love your videos Tale Tinkerer, they're so well thought out and articulate. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You said you've been writing for 25 years, have you published anything? I assume you have. Just curious. 😊👋🏻
Thank you for the kind feedback - it is really appreciated 🙂 I will self-publish my first novel next year. While having completed novels before, I was never interested in traditional publishing. Never even sent something in anywhere because the traditional publishing world just didn't resonate with me. By which I mean no offense, criticism or anything towards those working there or authors taking that route - it just isn't for me. Since self-publishing means a lot of additional work though that you have to do yourself (besides writing), I never felt it was the right time (especially given 80+ hours per week in gaming/tech for years). A few months ago though, I've decided to pursue my creative ideas full-time going forward, and that also means to finally publish something fully 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer I love mythology, but I'm really into tarot, and it's something that I want to incorporate more into my stories and worlds. Plus, I just love lore and the idea of creating worlds with lots of deep lore and a mythic feeling that gives readers something to explore even beyond the story.
@@akwashingtontarot card can go many places besides future telling they can be used to explain a character I know it's a kids movie but princess and the frog did that. The reader used his cards to read the characters past and present. Also sort of shown their flaws. You can use it that way especially for a mystic type.
If it feels to me that a character is being dragged around by the plot, then I'm highly likely to put down the book or turn off the movie/show. A story needs to be character driven to me, regardless how it was designed behind the scenes 🙂
EVERYTHING is important in order to craft exemplary work. And a hefty portion of "everything" means dramatic structure, character arcs, thematic underpinnings, literary techniques, color palettes (yup), relevant world-building, and even things like pacing, environment, weather, ToD, and music. If any of those are slipshod, banal, or completely missing, you can start betting your bucks that the creator isn't very seasoned. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
You are forgetting the 6th type Me who is the chosen one, master of all types and the one who'll never agree with anything lesser than the 5 because of my larger than life ego
My now-defunct writing blog was cartography themed. My one in-world avatar is a cartgropher who went mad after being shipwrecked on a magical mystery continent. Guess that's sorted...😂
Sorry, I don't recognise myself in none of these. I'm a imaginative storyteller, seeking to explore some big questions, challenging fantasy clichés, and have some fun with the genre.
Yep, no problem, got all that in spades....just hate doing, and often can't do, believable dialog. Got huge gaps where 12 notes that say, "this chr does this via that and this, to achieve that with that/these chrs." I know that is 3-5 pages of dialog (prob 2-3x if it;s actually good) ...and I just move on to the next scene, cause...ugh>
I wrote a myth once for a short story project in school. Gave a little history to my fictional world in which my current book is set. It was very fun :)
I'm a worldbuilder, though the way my world is developing story comes first. That's because the main setting of the first book is a magical school, and the world itself won't become important until later. I also have my four main characters planned out. Elkar is the main main. He starts out a sweet and timid little boy (they are 11-13/14 in the first book) that is easily frightened. He's also awful with a sword. But he's smart. Really, really smart. At the school there's a saying that he eats books for breakfast. He also has a flute passed down from his mother (he's an orphan, by the way) that he likes to play. As he grows older he's going to have to face his drawbacks head-on, as well as his recently emergent gay feelings for his friend, Rikter.🏳🌈 I should also mention that Elkar is the only non-human of the four. Rikter is a prince, the third son of the local ruler's younger brother. He was sent to the school when he was 8 because he's so far down the line of succession he's unlikely to inherit anything. He saved Elkar from the school bully a few weeks after he arrived and they've been friends ever since. He's the popular kid, who's tall, athletic and by far the best with the sword out of anyone in their year-group. He's also extremely kind towards (almost) everyone he meets. Which is a strength, but it will become a major weakness later on. Emisia is Elkar's childhood friend. Like Elkar she's an orphan. She's a tomboy and a feminist. They've grown up in a place that's far more progressive than the rest of the world (the school belongs to an ancient order that dates back to a lost civilization that was far more advanced than the primitive world in which the story takes place). They don't care if you prefer different pronouns than your birth gender, and they allow same-sex marriage. Girls and boys also wear the same stuff. This has allowed Emisia to develop some rather... radical views. This will likely get her into trouble later on. She's also very protective of Elkar. Though they are the same age their relationship has a strong big sister-little brother vibe. Zak is Rikter's best friend. He came to the school at 8, around the same time Rikter arrived and they've been friends since day one. He doesn't have a very high opinion of Elkar, whom he sees as a craven and a weakling. He only hangs out with him because of Rikter. They are, however, going to bond later on. He's from a fallen noble house that's squandered its wealth. One of the reasons I decided to make Elkar gay (besides being a part of the rainbow community myself) is that scene in Game of Thrones where Jon Snow and Sam talks about girls and Sam asks him if he doesn't like girls and Jon goes, "Of course I like girls!" And that made me think. Why is the "Aragorn archetype" never gay? And yes, I realise the descriptions makes it seem like Rikter is the "Aragorn archetype" (he's gay too, you know), but remember this is them as children. Elkar is definitely the "Aragorn archetype" of my story.
Why do you think you are bad at all this? In the end, this is just an attempt of mine to break something down that I've noticed over time (in myself and others) and hopefully provide some value to other writers. You could still be an amazing writer or become one, even if you don't feel you're excelling in any of these "types" right now 🙂
Now I am working on characters and then I will create a chronological history that is conducive to the mood and themes I want to write about. Then I will see what they do in this mess😂
I m very much a world builder. However to get the reader to experience the alien world of my sci fi story I created nyra a character who’s development shows the world and forces the aliens to explain what they do. In the process of writing nyra character focus took center stage until she gets thrown into difficult situations. Another alien character I call sokea has crashed on a planet inhabited by humans with mechs. I intent on going into political intrigue with that arc.
I think worldbuilding is a great foundational skill to have, and I do love it myself as well. The biggest risk - at least in my experience - is just that it never ends and you really need to get yourself to focus on writing the story as well. If that is what you want of course 🙂
A ragtag bunch of completely different fantasy writers who all believe they are the chosen one, destined to unleash the power of a magical story pen? It does at least sound like a unique story 😀
@@TheTaleTinkerer Yes! While not unique in nature, unique in execution a full spectrum magic system. I've been going back with ChatGPT and codifying it.
Does anyone know anyone who is a magic system maker? Because I've always heard of magic systems being secondary, as in no one writes a good story just to show off a magic system. It seems like that aspect is mixed in with the other four types, and might be something the writer is enthusiastic about or a prompt that gets the story going, but it never works independently from the previous styles.
I have a great magic system in my fantasy book. I have thought of everything, from how and what magic is to the limit and everything in-between. It's actually the disruption in the magical system/setup there is the plot in my story and what needs to be fixed but of course the characters don't know that in the beginning. They are just out on a quest to find the 'evil' character (there actually had a very good reason to start a conflict) When I started thinking about my story, I just wanted to make a story with as few loose ends, that I could manage because I hated the idea of reading about another fantasy book, where magic is just magic that some persons can use/learn often without limitations but still some is stronger than others but we dont know why
Beta reader: your world building is excellent and you have thought about everything but you shouldn't use a whole word page describing a mountain Me: thanks. I did use time to create my nine different types of character populations ( two have subcategories) where each has special gifts wicked into each other, living in a disrupted political world because two magical character populations are dead and now magic gets harvested from the last magical population so everyone can use magic. I know my main character should have a bigger inner development but she is selfish, acting childish and doesn't want to change. My other two (almost) main characters have bigger inner changes. And I have big plans for all of them
Find out for yourself. But in my professional opinion (30+ years of work), I don't exactly fit into some banal and generic definition. It's just not a plausible way to describe my dedication to dramatic structure, character arcs, thematic underpinnings, literary techniques, world-building, etc. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ --Diamond Dragons (series)
HOOOOOLLLD up jk rowling a world builder???? how does the magical world and mundane world coexist and hasnt been exposed to everyone yet? how does the magic work? yeah if shes a world builder than im not sure shes a good example.
If you're on your own writing or worldbuilding journey, make sure to sign up for my free weekly newsletter which is packed with practical advice and strategies on key elements, from character development and plot structuring to creating immersive fantasy worlds: thetaletinkerer.com/newsletter
Or, people could simply collaborate both strategically and effectively. 💪😎✌️
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
--Diamond Dragons (series)
You’re forgetting type 6!
Unmedicated ADHD: the ability to synergize and rapidly develop the skills of all 5 categories but the physical inability to see any story through lol
Me fr
Amen brother
YUP
Concept artist is a profession. Keep track of those notebooks; even decorate them appropriately .
My people!
There’s a sixth option: the prose demon. Patrick Rothfuss is a way better example of this than he is of a character-driven author. Also, you can point to folks like Guy Gavriel Kay or Susana Clarke.
There’s fantasy authors out there that spend weeks and weeks fixating on every word, trying to make it sound perfect. They don’t write “fantasy,” they write proper literature, just with fantasy elements. At some point, it seems more likely that they’re writing narrative poetry, than a fantasy novel.
The big issue with them is that they’re perfectionists and don’t finish projects because they get too deep in the weeds. See Patrick Rothfuss’s Doors of Stone or that Susana Clarke has only ever published two books.
That said, when they do finish something, it’s beautiful. It might be a bit strange, content-wise, and the worldbuilding might be a bit shallow, but the words are magnetic.
Beethovens of fantasy writing. (Douglas Adams would qualify, only for science fiction.)
I think you can further generalize these things in just writers in general outside of Fantasy.
Setting (What you call Worldbuilding) - Focused on the particulars within the setting.
Characters - Focuses on Fleshing out the Actors
Plot - Focuses on the structure of the Narrative
Themes (What you call Myths) - Focuses on symbols and iconography
Mechanics (What you call Magic Systems) - Focuses on the minuate details of a process, hobby, study etc can also apply to technology, whodunnit mysteries, or politics.
I'd add a 6th category.
Aesthetics - Focuses more on the "vibe" or the feel of the work, the atmosphere etc
I’m a lot more character focused. The way I’ve gotten myself to world build is to write something about the world as if written by a character of the world. For me the world serves the characters
fantastic explanations - i love your use of the 5 characters you created to make the abstract information land easier. thank you!! subscribed!
Thank you for the feedback - I'm really glad to hear the "experiment" by using the characters seems to be well understood and received 🙂
This really helped me settle on a direction for a story I’ve been tinkering with for months. I can leverage my world building and love of myths to create an anthology of shorter fantasy tales that eventually may (or may not) tie together. Thank you!!
I'm glad to hear that the video inspired / helped you move forward with your own story - thanks for leaving the feedback, that is always one of the greatest things to read underneath a video :-)
I'm definitely a world builder, I do like creating stories of key events in the world's history though.
I'm Jack, the trader who never got his master's degree
Or you are the humble veteran who excels in all five roles?! 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer Flattering but I'm still struggling through my first draft so I'm not sure if I'm excelling at anything at the moment lol
But I have at least been writing and thinking about writing craft for most of my life so there's that.
"Discipline. Consistency. Deadlines. Creativity. Reflection. Repeat." --an award-winning author
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
Definitely number three, the plotter. Really appreciate this breakdown.😁
You're welcome - I had this one in mind for a while but wasn't sure if it provided enough real value for people. But then I started to find enough angles where I felt it could be helpful 🙂
I'm definitely #2 with a dash of #5 and a pinch of #3 lol
I highly value structual integrity in narrative and can be a bit of a stickler for logic and internal consistency with my stories, but more than anything, my stories are driven by my character.
So basically learning to use all these in the right amount to balance your strengths and weaknesses is the key to great storytelling. Even great writers tend to be off balanced and suit only their target audience
What is more interesting to me than finding how I fit into this is how you are constructing your perceived limitations of fantasy as a genre within a set of archetypes.
A person who is fascinated by narrative themes can be working from mythology, or they can work from philosophy, personal experience, or even just a sense of curiosity and experimentation. A person who is interested in magic can do so through systematization and explanation, or they can do so through expression of emotion, cultural history, spirituality and belief, or just as an analogy for experiences and practices that have defined their life.
To me, this demonstrates the way that fantasy as a genre has been reified by a fandom who unreasonably elevate the work of a few authors seen as foundational to its identity.
I am very much 1 and 4, but am trying to learn more about 2 and 3. I have put developing my skills at 5 on a backburner by focussing on low fantasy for the time being.
You treat us writers with so much kindness! 😂 very positive approach.
I'm definitely a type 4 symbolist-mythological type, trying to get everything not so tight as not to make it boring while having plot twists and progression well planned, so a bit of type 3 too.
I'm Tzeentch, the everchanging. I'm sometimes like this, sometimes like that. I get lost in small details which I get facinated with in the heat of the moment. Sometimes it is a quircky dialogue between my weird characters, sometimes a certian aspect of the world, sometimes some unexpected plot twist, or it is just some fun fact which I learn about the daily life of the medieval people trough my writing journey.
I'm prone to get lost in one aspect of the writing and I tend to forget about the others. So I need to revisit what I wrote regurarly to fill the missing details. I'm slowly getting better at it though.
I'm a mix of #5 and #2 with a dash of #1. I love to come up with fun characters that can showcase different aspects of my magic systems, while also having complex relationships with each other (that are often heavily affected by the magic system as well). I often have trouble with coming up with actual plot events and pacing within the broader story arcs though. Also I spend way too much time on politics.
Mix of #2 and #4 for me. Love telling sagas about epic, complex characters, with tons of references to old myths, eastern ideas, and classic western literature.
I think that everyone have a bit of all but at different levels
That definitely is ideal, yes, and having that is for sure very helpful, as I tried to convey in the video.
But I did find it interesting to break it down because it really does make a difference knowing where your personal focus lies, and what strengths and challenges that brings - at least for me it was helpful 🙂
100% I'm a character driven writer. My first drafts are always centered around the characters in the scene. Afterwards I have to flesh out everything else to add sensory information and create a sense of place. I get complimented a lot on my characters feeling real and engaging. Conversations and arguments? I've got a knack for those. It's the things that no one comments on that I know are my weaknesses.
I'm realizing I need to pull back and think of the world, its magic, and its political structures as their own characters that interact with and profoundly shape the people I'm writing about. I have to think about the specific arcs I need characters to experience and how they will intertwine with each other.
If I don't, it's all too easy for me to get sidetracked and let a subset of characters go off and bond with one another. Often, they end up finding connection and resolving emotional issues in interesting ways. But, they don't advance the plot at all. Planning the story beats ahead is turning out to be of paramount importance so I can carefully choose moments for this emotional bonding and growth so that it coincides with key moments in the bigger story. I need to choose who learns what and when ahead of time so that all the secondary characters can grow alongside the main characters without constantly splitting the narrative in opposing directions.
I feel like I’m a mix of all these but I would lean towards world building and character development. I also do artwork for my stories so sketching characters is a big thing for me!
I am definitely very focused on world building to the point that it’s hard to write! I’m trying to have balance and write a good story.
His advice about setting a time limit for world building truly works. I did this with my current WIP. I gave myself two weeks to build enough to get started and then I had to either zero draft or plot sketch. After a few weeks I could give myself a weekend of connecting the dots of all the random things I'd made up along the way and all of a sudden I had a growing, deepening world along with a plot.
I actually had to give up on the world bible thing. I was spending all my effort on making it as complete as possible, and was using it to avoid the hard part, which for me is plotting and drafting.
Somehow, I'm all of these types either by force or by choice. I became a dialog/character driven author out of necessity since it seemed like the best way to engage the reader, I absolutely love worldbuilding, developing both complex magic systems, settings, myths, etc, and of course the plot cannot be forgotten either, so I know I cannot neglect it. In short, I'm somehow a balance of all 5 writer types.
This was beautifully done, Sascha. You put a lot of work into this video and it shows! :) Thank you.
Thank you for the amazing feedback - I really appreciate it. This was a bit of a test, especially weaving in this much "story", so I'm glad to see that the initial reception seems to be quite well 🙂
Anyone else watch this and feel like they should be part of a team of five authors to write their next epic?
I'm totally a worldbuilder, with a minor in plot architect.
I love coming up with wild, grand and sweeping world concepts, and then obsessing over the political interplay between factions. My dialogue suffers as a result (unless I REALLY dig a character). Also I don't sweat the smaller details (someone at work asked me what the exact military chain of command was for a major faction, and looked at me like I was an alien when I told him I hadn't made that).
Number one all the way 😅 Characters and pacing have always been my bane.
I actually thought this was true for me as well, but the more I refined the script for the video based on research, the more I started to notice that I actually have a hard time to put myself into one category. Hopefully, this means I'm starting to be more well-rounded rather than just bad at everything 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer Epic. It’s always nice to look back and see how you’ve improved. Like when you read some old thing that’s been sat in the back of your drive and say, “Wow, this is awful. I can’t believe I was actually proud of this.” Then you realize your standards and skills have improved like CrAzY! I’m getting better at characters and pacing, and right now I think I’ve master them, but I’m certain I’ll look back on it in a month and facepalm. Wish I could speed up the process, but oh well! 🤷♂️
I am the avatar 😂 I take from all of these.
That's not a bad spot to be in, if you ask me 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer yeah! It just takes time to get in each mindset.
I do a little of all 5, but mostly magic systems and characters...I actually struggle to write main plots for my stories because I'm too busy crafting the individual magic elements and character backstories, and imagining all the cool things someone can do with my universe's magic. I'm a lifelong superhero & fantasy fan, so cool characters doing dope stuff is my bread and butter. Political intrigue? Never met him.
But in truth I'm the ADHD writer who never gets out of the outline phase.
I think I’m a combination of world builder, myth builder, and magic system enthusiast. And my biggest weakness is probbaly info dumping. I have a pretty good understanding of plot and character development (not enough to be categorized as a master in the other categories) but I struggle with giving too much information at once, or spoiling plot twists. I just feel like everything I make on my world is important. (And it usually is because I’m compelled for everything to be connected to the plot somehow) I just need to figure out WHEN to introduce them. My first story draft basically had everything important introduced in the first few pages/season so I’m trying to spread things out but it’s so HARD to stay silent on certain things.
Type 2 with a lot of type 1 and 4 combined i guess, thanks for the insight!
Plot architect. My weakness is character building and their relations. Nevertheless I realized that this creates great ideas for the plot. 😅
Any great ideas you want to share? 🙂
Im definitely a world builder and a plot architect and I suffer from not really knowing who my characters are until the story reveals them and this tends to slow me down when it comes to character development because I feel like if they are a meaningful character than they should have a compelling arch that contributes to the overall story without being contrived, it can be difficult especially when I have been developing my magic system for a while now so that it makes sense and is believable while also maintaining that atmosphere of mystery.
Truly feeling like a worldbuilder and plot architect means there is a lot of structure in you - that is a good thing! Lean in to that and make it the solution to your character problems.
As suggested in the video (at least I hope I did actually mention it in there ^^) one of the ways for plot architects to craft more engaging characters is to create a character arc alongside the plotting - ensuring that the evolution of the character makes sense and supports whatever direction the character takes 🙂
I am somewhere between Type two and three. Love character writing, dialogue, pacing and thematic narrative. But I'm kinda lost in the worldbuilding and myths, mostly thinking It just superficially.
Seeing yourself as a blend of different types is not a bad thing - if you ask me. It certainly means there is some versatility present already 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer That's a really encouraging thing to hear! Thanks a lot! Love the channel and your nuanced insights helps lot for my writing!
My writing style does have aspect of character developing, because all of my characters move off page. No NPCs in my world, sorry Twitter users. While I also do have mythological weaving, especially when I’ll publish my next book. The Strongest element in my writing style is subtlety because I can hide foreshadow within character dialogues, character, actions, descriptions, one of the jokes, names of characters, and even within spells.
that's cool!
You said to leave a like, two seconds after I left a like. xD
This was an incredible and extremely helpful video. Thank you very much.
Glad to hear my request was well timed then ^^ And obviously even more happy that the video was useful for you 🙂
Based off this video, seems I am only really weak at plotting/outlining but I can learn that and I will.
My struggle( like there's one) is when I have to alter the world to make the story work.
I love writing magic systems or building history for some tales, while others have literally wrote themselves because of the characters. I have some knowledge of mythology both Norse and Greco-Roman (I personally prefer the Greek names; why call them Mars, Diana, or Vulcan when Ares, Artemis and Hephestus are available? Zeus is much more interesting than Jupiter.) The stories where I have the world and/or the magic system often feature a rough plot outline as well, with minute details still to be explored.
I guess I am more towards worldbuilding, characters, and magic with a bit of lore and a dabble of plot.
I tell myself the skeletal storyline before writing to test out the idea. Any revisions can be made there before I get too invested in one aspect.
I’m almost certain that I’m the second type of writer, since all I ever do is focus on my characters, and then try to build a story or universe around them, which is actually meant to be space opera like Star Wars.
I really love your videos Tale Tinkerer, they're so well thought out and articulate. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You said you've been writing for 25 years, have you published anything? I assume you have. Just curious. 😊👋🏻
Thank you for the kind feedback - it is really appreciated 🙂
I will self-publish my first novel next year. While having completed novels before, I was never interested in traditional publishing. Never even sent something in anywhere because the traditional publishing world just didn't resonate with me.
By which I mean no offense, criticism or anything towards those working there or authors taking that route - it just isn't for me.
Since self-publishing means a lot of additional work though that you have to do yourself (besides writing), I never felt it was the right time (especially given 80+ hours per week in gaming/tech for years).
A few months ago though, I've decided to pursue my creative ideas full-time going forward, and that also means to finally publish something fully 🙂
I'm a mix between Worldbuilder and Plot Architect, but I would like to be more of a Myth Weaver. Really love this breakdown!
Thank you for the feedback - glad to hear you liked the video. What exactly makes you want to be more of a myth weaver in particular? 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer I love mythology, but I'm really into tarot, and it's something that I want to incorporate more into my stories and worlds. Plus, I just love lore and the idea of creating worlds with lots of deep lore and a mythic feeling that gives readers something to explore even beyond the story.
@@akwashingtontarot card can go many places besides future telling they can be used to explain a character I know it's a kids movie but princess and the frog did that. The reader used his cards to read the characters past and present. Also sort of shown their flaws. You can use it that way especially for a mystic type.
Its probably easier to write a good character driven story, but most great stories are plot driven I believe.
You got that in reverse. Every great story ever is character driven.
If it feels to me that a character is being dragged around by the plot, then I'm highly likely to put down the book or turn off the movie/show.
A story needs to be character driven to me, regardless how it was designed behind the scenes 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer NO PUNCHING BAGS FOR THE PLOT. If the character ain't making their own choices, how will they seem real??
EVERYTHING is important in order to craft exemplary work. And a hefty portion of "everything" means dramatic structure, character arcs, thematic underpinnings, literary techniques, color palettes (yup), relevant world-building, and even things like pacing, environment, weather, ToD, and music.
If any of those are slipshod, banal, or completely missing, you can start betting your bucks that the creator isn't very seasoned.
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Those of us who have already developed strength in more than one of these areas MAY have foreseen where this video was destined to go in the end.
I love a good cold reading. I know someone who's name starts with a 'C'!!!
You are forgetting the 6th type
Me who is the chosen one, master of all types and the one who'll never agree with anything lesser than the 5 because of my larger than life ego
Pleased to meet another hack other than myself
I am the phantom writer because I only ever think about what to write but never actually write it
We are fantasy writer with those traits yet we all struggle with writing good prose
My now-defunct writing blog was cartography themed. My one in-world avatar is a cartgropher who went mad after being shipwrecked on a magical mystery continent.
Guess that's sorted...😂
It might be, yeah... 😀
I combine character-drivenness and myth-weaving.
I'm the mix of all the flaws mentioned 😂😂
Sorry - but that one really made me laugh, thank you for that 😀
@@TheTaleTinkerer hahaha it's ok. I'm actually writing my first novel, so I'm trying to improve
Sorry, I don't recognise myself in none of these. I'm a imaginative storyteller, seeking to explore some big questions, challenging fantasy clichés, and have some fun with the genre.
I feel like I switch up what type I am based on the project I'm working on LOL
Yep, no problem, got all that in spades....just hate doing, and often can't do, believable dialog. Got huge gaps where 12 notes that say, "this chr does this via that and this, to achieve that with that/these chrs." I know that is 3-5 pages of dialog (prob 2-3x if it;s actually good) ...and I just move on to the next scene, cause...ugh>
I'm definitely of the myth weaver group.
Great to hear, that there are people out there who identify with this. Any myths in particular that you keep coming back to? 🙂
I wrote a myth once for a short story project in school. Gave a little history to my fictional world in which my current book is set. It was very fun :)
I'm a worldbuilder, though the way my world is developing story comes first. That's because the main setting of the first book is a magical school, and the world itself won't become important until later. I also have my four main characters planned out.
Elkar is the main main. He starts out a sweet and timid little boy (they are 11-13/14 in the first book) that is easily frightened. He's also awful with a sword. But he's smart. Really, really smart. At the school there's a saying that he eats books for breakfast. He also has a flute passed down from his mother (he's an orphan, by the way) that he likes to play. As he grows older he's going to have to face his drawbacks head-on, as well as his recently emergent gay feelings for his friend, Rikter.🏳🌈 I should also mention that Elkar is the only non-human of the four.
Rikter is a prince, the third son of the local ruler's younger brother. He was sent to the school when he was 8 because he's so far down the line of succession he's unlikely to inherit anything. He saved Elkar from the school bully a few weeks after he arrived and they've been friends ever since. He's the popular kid, who's tall, athletic and by far the best with the sword out of anyone in their year-group. He's also extremely kind towards (almost) everyone he meets. Which is a strength, but it will become a major weakness later on.
Emisia is Elkar's childhood friend. Like Elkar she's an orphan. She's a tomboy and a feminist. They've grown up in a place that's far more progressive than the rest of the world (the school belongs to an ancient order that dates back to a lost civilization that was far more advanced than the primitive world in which the story takes place). They don't care if you prefer different pronouns than your birth gender, and they allow same-sex marriage. Girls and boys also wear the same stuff. This has allowed Emisia to develop some rather... radical views. This will likely get her into trouble later on. She's also very protective of Elkar. Though they are the same age their relationship has a strong big sister-little brother vibe.
Zak is Rikter's best friend. He came to the school at 8, around the same time Rikter arrived and they've been friends since day one. He doesn't have a very high opinion of Elkar, whom he sees as a craven and a weakling. He only hangs out with him because of Rikter. They are, however, going to bond later on. He's from a fallen noble house that's squandered its wealth.
One of the reasons I decided to make Elkar gay (besides being a part of the rainbow community myself) is that scene in Game of Thrones where Jon Snow and Sam talks about girls and Sam asks him if he doesn't like girls and Jon goes, "Of course I like girls!" And that made me think. Why is the "Aragorn archetype" never gay? And yes, I realise the descriptions makes it seem like Rikter is the "Aragorn archetype" (he's gay too, you know), but remember this is them as children. Elkar is definitely the "Aragorn archetype" of my story.
nice video really interesting
Personally my style is a blend if Worldbuilding and Folklore. My goal is to create a new fictional mythology for animals. 🐦🔥
I am all 4 except the character-driven one cuz I have everything lined up but I still don't know who is who or who is doing what.
How would you classify Terry Pratchett? I'm thinking magic system (as it resembles particle physics) but also character driven.
I guess I’m a plotter…. With occasional splashes of character drive. But honestly this just makes me realise how bad I am at all of this.
Why do you think you are bad at all this?
In the end, this is just an attempt of mine to break something down that I've noticed over time (in myself and others) and hopefully provide some value to other writers.
You could still be an amazing writer or become one, even if you don't feel you're excelling in any of these "types" right now 🙂
Now I am working on characters and then I will create a chronological history that is conducive to the mood and themes I want to write about. Then I will see what they do in this mess😂
Then you have Eichiiro Oda, a Worldbuilding mastermind who's got all the stuff stored inside the One Piece Universe.
I m very much a world builder. However to get the reader to experience the alien world of my sci fi story I created nyra a character who’s development shows the world and forces the aliens to explain what they do. In the process of writing nyra character focus took center stage until she gets thrown into difficult situations. Another alien character I call sokea has crashed on a planet inhabited by humans with mechs. I intent on going into political intrigue with that arc.
I think worldbuilding is a great foundational skill to have, and I do love it myself as well. The biggest risk - at least in my experience - is just that it never ends and you really need to get yourself to focus on writing the story as well. If that is what you want of course 🙂
Who else wants to read a story about the five "characters" described in the beginning of the video?
A ragtag bunch of completely different fantasy writers who all believe they are the chosen one, destined to unleash the power of a magical story pen?
It does at least sound like a unique story 😀
Type 2 all the way.
What's your favorite fantasy novel character? 🙂
I think I'm all types of fantasy writer
This one is many characters multiple connected plots but ultimately connected to a common threat...which one?
Not sure if it in here but im the dice set and paper statistics kind
I'm me, the low self-esteemer
On the other side of your character arc is the exact opposite 🙂
Urgh im too mixed its going book by book on wich one I think Im two and three on these syfy books but my fantasy books one,four, and two help!
Type number 5 here.
Any unique magic system ideas you're working on right now? 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer Yes! While not unique in nature, unique in execution a full spectrum magic system. I've been going back with ChatGPT and codifying it.
Does anyone know anyone who is a magic system maker? Because I've always heard of magic systems being secondary, as in no one writes a good story just to show off a magic system. It seems like that aspect is mixed in with the other four types, and might be something the writer is enthusiastic about or a prompt that gets the story going, but it never works independently from the previous styles.
I have a great magic system in my fantasy book. I have thought of everything, from how and what magic is to the limit and everything in-between.
It's actually the disruption in the magical system/setup there is the plot in my story and what needs to be fixed but of course the characters don't know that in the beginning. They are just out on a quest to find the 'evil' character (there actually had a very good reason to start a conflict)
When I started thinking about my story, I just wanted to make a story with as few loose ends, that I could manage because I hated the idea of reading about another fantasy book, where magic is just magic that some persons can use/learn often without limitations but still some is stronger than others but we dont know why
Sometimes I do at least get the feeling that Brandon Sanderson has a particular love for magic systems 🙂
Muscle magic
"There is no good or evil, only weight and those too weak to lift it"
-Swoledemort
If I am not one of these 5, I am not a fantasy writer?
Beta reader: your world building is excellent and you have thought about everything but you shouldn't use a whole word page describing a mountain
Me: thanks. I did use time to create my nine different types of character populations ( two have subcategories) where each has special gifts wicked into each other, living in a disrupted political world because two magical character populations are dead and now magic gets harvested from the last magical population so everyone can use magic.
I know my main character should have a bigger inner development but she is selfish, acting childish and doesn't want to change.
My other two (almost) main characters have bigger inner changes. And I have big plans for all of them
Any plotters need a character developer to trade skills with?? I need your help, maybe you need mine(:
Find out for yourself. But in my professional opinion (30+ years of work), I don't exactly fit into some banal and generic definition. It's just not a plausible way to describe my dedication to dramatic structure, character arcs, thematic underpinnings, literary techniques, world-building, etc.
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"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
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--Diamond Dragons (series)
Idk I ain't good enough for this
HOOOOOLLLD up jk rowling a world builder???? how does the magical world and mundane world coexist and hasnt been exposed to everyone yet? how does the magic work? yeah if shes a world builder than im not sure shes a good example.
Rowling, back when I was willing to give her any sort of thought beyond 'ugh, TERF', struck me as a character & lore writer first.
I'm like all of them but at beginner level