@@FMD-FullMetalDragon Honestly though china has many serious issue with it's ethnic/religious minorities, it's still much better than saudi. In china women can own property and walk around without male chaperone. Though homosexuality is frowned upon, it's not illegal. Again, not saying it's a free country by any means but definitely better
I think some of the skepticism is well placed, but BO3 single round robin is at minimum, the same amount of games we get in a double round BO1, plus we get to see draft adaptation. Hope it works, looking forward to watching it, still wish we could get a higher quantity of games.
The reason I am for this news is the fact that Bo3s are lot easier for me to get engaged in. In addition with how the league meta has been, I really hate when a team brings out a niche/pocket pick and catches another team offguard and not get to see how the team that lost would adjust to it. It’s so much more fun imo and the league has already declined with Bo1 format so I appreciate them giving us Bo3 lovers what we’ve been wanting for awhile now.
@@Daedalus33, it had been up for 11 seconds and I have never had the opportunity to be the first comment on something that fresh. I shot my shot. No regrets.
So I’m not sure how much it resonates with the “average” fan but if given the options between last split’s format of double round robin with 8 teams vs single round with bo3, I’m definitely happy with the change. The main thing I want is to see a more compelling and accurate representation of strength throughout the league and I think a single bo3 is more indicative of that than 2 isolated bo1
I just wanted more games than the 14 we got last split. This likely gives us more, but I'm not sure it's exactly what I was hoping for. Still, I'm excited to see how it plays out. I wasn't watching the last time we did bo3, so I'm not sure what to expect.
8 teams in the league one team plays against 7 others so at most 21 games, at least 14, its not a big change and single round robin kind of sucks as teams will be better or worse on different patches, wish we could just copy the LCK's format.
Would be nice if they would do a double round robin giving each team a red side and blue side advantage. A couple superweeks and an early / late add on would allow the time. We have way too long breaks in the LCS.
No it wouldn't. Double round robin is a 14 week season, you could make it 12 weeks if you have 2 superweeks but you still have to add 2 weeks due to break for Saudi's tournament, so you back up to 14. If they start at the beginning of June, they would finish the regular season mid September which is way too late. Trying to condense the season down further will just lead to problems. The only way to do Double round robin with best of 3s is to have multiple streams.... which is what they did last time...
@@Wulfeylol That requires enough viewership to afford doubling the pay to all the production. Pretty much impossible since the current problem is viewership.
Thanks as always for covering the league Travis! I tend to be on the side of trying new things and I definitely feel like bo3s might be something that can help...not sure about only doing a single round robin though I feel like that almost defeats the purpose of trying the bo3s. It'll also be interesting to see what playoff format they are hoping to use for summer finals i think that plays a role as well
I think there is a creative and effective way to do both BO1 and BO3 during a split. Either by mixing up BO3 and BO1 on the same days or changing to 3 days a week. You know worlds usually has a BO1 Stage and B03 stage only makes sense to have Live experience with both types during the split. Creates opportunity for the creative teams that might innovate to win the BO1 compared to more well rounded teams who can adapt and take over a BO3 series. I think this is also the only thing to make teams actually try a rare or really unique draft or pick on stage. Ive been a huge fan of the LCS and LOL sense it first began. I still try to watch every game no matter the day or times. So i understand i could be unique or bias in this thinking. But i do understand the possible kickback of the huge in devour of making this happen and the sustainability, and trying to register with the newer viewer. All that said i really like the idea of BO3. One round robin is just still not enough games. I get there has to be practice and days for review for teams. I just cant grasp how Live in game experience, adapting to actually playing out team fights and macro situations when it matters most isn't the best practice you can get. Teams have to get more games during the split if they ever want to narrow the gap. Hard work wins. Lazy scrims or lack of focus practices benefits no one. Put the game on the line make it count. If you want results the focus has to be to play more. If you can beat LCK and LPL teams, possibly win worlds. Viewers and players will join the hype. Always been that way. Hope LCS teams could put egos aside and just work hard and become better people and teamates and find ways to win.
Hallelujah! I have wanted best of 3s to return forever. And this is from someone who had to suffer through best of 3s for post Breaking Point Team Liquid. (Midlet was pretty funny, though.)
I hated single games so fuckin boring and felt like nothin is achieved, just whoever gets lucky in draft and game. BO3 brings better drafts and makes you feel like ur watching something that matters. Can’t wait to start watching LCS again
Thanks for reporting this, Travis. I'm stoked for this change! I started watching right after the last Bo3 era, so I haven't experienced it before. Even if it hurts viewership overall, I will definitely be watching more. I feel like Bo3 makes each game feel like a playoffs series, instead of a one-off game once a week.
Hey Travis, you said you read every comment so I wanted to say I love all of your content, but also ask a question -- what would you think of a format where a coach from each team is able to be on stage and in game as a spectator?
Best of 3 sounds better, even as a single round robin we get same amount of games + a tie breaker for each I do agree that bo3 of the 2 bottom teams might get tedious, but overall I like the idea, in the end whatever helps the lcs grow for me.
I'm definitely sad to see single round robin but otherwise I'm pretty excited. Mainly just the hope that the league stays as competitive as it was this split so we average above 5 games and LCS can last a little longer. The cut down time between games was amazing but also it happening the split we go to 8 teams definitely made some of those LCS days feel like quick little 3 hour banger streams and then nothing for another week which wasn't great. I do feel like average viewership will probably go down with this, and I hate that because of what it will probably mean for the league, but as a fan who plans on being here it kinda seems like we were headed that way anyways so I would rather the viewing experience (and competitive experience) be the best it can be now, if it's gonna die let it die trying to show us some competition and not just ten players rolling out of bed for another scrim they don't care about cause 75% of the league makes playoffs anyways and nothing matters until best of series start.
The lcs not doing 2 round robins bo3 is just outrageous. There are so many ways they could do it. And finances is a BS reason, they games don’t need to have the full budget, and the players NEED to play more games.
My honest opinions as a long time fan of 1 team. I wouldn't call myself a fan of LCS, but my favorite team plays in the region. Here are a couple of things I like from this change: 1. Depending on scheduling (assuming it's going to be like VCT) I like that I have gained a whole extra day, I no longer have to worry about catching a game on both Saturday and Sunday. 2. I am probably going to watch the team that plays before (not sure about after) because I have a whole free day rather than tuning in for 1 game and going back to doing things. 3. Less variance. I will mostly know how good the teams are going into a game now that it's bo3 Some things I am hesitant about: 1. Game quality. If the meta is solved and it's just the same games over and over I would get bored faster because we potentially doubled the amount of games in a patch. 2.if a team crash and burns thats a lot of wasted air time 3. LONG games. I'm down for a 55 min game, but if it's 3 55 min games back to back, I will want to die. Single round robin: I think it's fine actually. I hated it last year in vct but once playoffs came around but the mystery kinda built up the hype. "Team 1 beat team 2 in week 1 but since then Team 2 has shown massive improvement." If this is the only price we have to pay for bo3 I would be fine with it.
My belief is that BO3's ideally allow adaptation and experimentation for teams so that 1) team strength is more accurately represented and 2) individual players can show different things, hopefully building hype or interest on the viewer side. Rich had 1 game each on Rumble, TF, and Jayce last split when he's known as a carry/ranged carry guy (at least in lane). Hopefully, we get more games to see more from players.
I'll be one watching MORE for best of threes. I've always been more of a vod reviewer but now I see more value in being present while the games are playing on. I, for one, HATE watching a series where I know the outcome (usually spoiled by the comments or vod length, besides caedrel)
Excited to see how it plays out, also excited to see if your hypothesis / scepticism is correct or not. As an aside, you are such an important voice for the community, really enjoyed the content this year (I've enjoyed it every year since s3), something about your coverage this year is really clicking with me. Best wishes Travis!
I think it's interesting that we had all been asking for BO3 back when viewership was strong. Not only did the LCS take WAY too long to listen and give it a try, but a single round robin is a clear toe dip into the idea, with likely no intention of jumping in. Viewership is unlikely to get anywhere near what it ever was. Experimenting this late in the game and acting like spikes in dismal viewership is a valid metric that you should be using is the wrong idea. The LCS should always have been more focused on keeping their viewers happy than in gaining new viewers. If The LCS had followed this obvious strategy back when it really mattered, then we would either be playing BO3, and seeing those results internationally, or we would all be griping at the new kids about why it didn't work; and it would be coming from a retained player base 10 times the current size.
It can definetley be the case where less popular teams like Immortals, Dig game days are goimg to have really low viewership, and game days with polular teams just ends up with average viewership. Hopefully thats not the case, but maybe there will be some other benefits to the change.
the first league event i ever went to was lcs spring last year in raleigh! i wanted to go again this year if it was somewhat close to me but i didnt want to travel out to california :(
1. I love that as time goes on and things (in general) keep getting worse and worse, Travis becomes ever so slightly more unhinged in his videos lol. 2. Very curious as to how Bo3 will go this time around. On the one hand I’m excited for the competitive aspect, I think a best of series is more compelling in general, but on the other hand my team was always TSM and I no longer have a team to root for. I still watch just about every LCS game, skipping the 8th vs 7th place matches generally, but I wonder if I’ll lose interest without having a horse in the race so-to-speak. Ultimately, I’m happy with the overall direction under Mark. The changes he’s made (sorry, his TEAM has made) feel different than the typical Riot change where most of us fans and even creators/personalities in the space are wondering what the heck they’re doing. I’m optimistic!
What I actually find interesting is that they are implementing this change mid season instead of btw seasons. Maybe it shows how efficient the new commissioner is!
I really like bo3 because it allows for draft adaptation in a non playoff match i think the only reason it didn't work last time we tried it was because the teams involved didn't have a lot of hype for the lower teams but now that the league is a bit more competitive with itself it leads to people watching the games that they wouldn't have when it was the first time at attempted it
The reason I advocate for BO3 over BO1 is for the competitiveness of the region and the quality of the practice for the players, and the quality of the matches for the viewers second. I've written about BO3 v. BO1 elsewhere, so I'll copy paste what I've written on it here. Super pleased to see this implemented in any fashion, net positive even if it lowers viewership imo. "I've been saying for years that BO1 format is a huge part of the reason for the west failing to meet expectations every year. BO3 is a true marker of who's the better team on the day, and it drives improvement forward more than BO1. There are 0 competitive negatives for BO3 to not be standard in all leagues. Teams get more stage games, BO3 trains players to perform in BO5 and the audience gets to watch a higher standard of play across the board. BO1 is simply easier for quick entertainment, but what drives esports is exciting competition not entertainment. Seriously laughable to me that the west hasn't adopted BO3 format, it actively dilutes the level of international competition, which is boring. If you've played BO3 all year, teams have played so many more games than BO1. Easier to adapt to BO1 from BO3 than it is to adapt to B03 from BO1, BO3 creates more experienced players that are better at adapting their draft/playstyle."
With only 8 teams in the League now and how the league looked in Spring, I'm excited for B03s. One of he biggest arguments for the decline of viewership with Bo3s is that there are matches that people don't want to watch 3 times, but I think all teams were pretty competitive last split and some just needed more stage time. I started watching LCS back around the time when it did Bo3s and I loved it. I've missed it a lot these years since. Plus Travis, your biggest argument is that viewership will decline, but sadly, viewership is declining as is with Bo1s anyway. LCS needed a big change and the Bo1s double round robin did not feel good to me with only 8 teams. It felt too short, too crunched, and it felt like teams were not adequately given the time to improve and show what they can do. Wish it was double round robin Bo3s, but I feel like this is a compromise headed in the right direction, considering the limitations that Riot has.
Its kind of sad. I watch the LCK finals and they have a full stadium, multi-million views, a great pre-show, etc... Then I watch the LCS/LEC and its in a warehouse of 20 people with no pre-show.
Honestly, I think bo2s are far better for the summer split, mostly due to what should be, more games and more stage time. I think playing bo1s are unnecessary as none of the high level games can be decided by bo1s, bo3s need to be saved for playoffs as they will be more exciting and are good for actual gameplay.
IMO I believe the reason for BO3 in LCS is for it to become more successful in international competition, if it does work and a team/s gets to a semi's or even finals- naturally more people will start checking in with the region next year :)
Best of 3's would be amazing for the LCS. It'll put the NA players at a better chance vs. the other international regions. More games = more playing time, practice, strategies, more serious gameplay. If the LPL, LCK and LEC are already doing this and perform much better on the international stage, why wouldn't we in LCS?
Interesting. While I'm skeptical of it being a single round robin we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. It's also not the first NA league to have SRRBO3 as NACL did that in Spring, though they also used Fearless draft for the regular season as well (i.e. champs can only be picked by a team once per series, so if team A picked Teemo in G1 they can't pick him again in G2-3). Perhaps if Summer is successful LCS could try implementing Fearless draft in the future as well.
Although a single round robin isn’t ideal, I’m excited for Bo3. I believe teams will start innovating draft a bit more. I wonder how it’s going to be with pre recorded drafts?
Genuinely think this will propell the LCS to new heights in terms of competition, this bridges the gap in skill between the regions and even offers more opportunities for academy players to play a game.
I think it is an interesting idea. I am not overly bothered by single round robin. It means teams have a 14-21 game regular season as opposed to our current flat 14. Hope they find a way to make each day have one solid best of 3. Thanks for the update Travis! Is the commissioner still coming on Hotline League next Monday?
I'm disappointed, this was the best split of the LCS in a while but I get this was the best compromise to get BO3s into the format. At least we're not going back to 10 teams.
I'm excited for best of threes, only downside is it being single round robin because we know teams can have bad days. However, this also makes each unique matchup happen less frequently which could potentially be a plus for viewership.
Really liked this video (and the last about bo3) and I see your point. I can see this going either way but I hope it works. But I do think (anf hope) what riot will get huge flame for that world cup shit
Before last split started, I agreed (and for many of the same reasons). However I think many teams are on such a fairly close level that I was excited to watch almost all of the games, so I think it will be true in the summer, and as long as skill levels are similar, this should be a good change. Instead of 1 game of rank 10 vs rank 9 team clown fiesta we get potentially 3!!!! And in the case of rank 1 vs rank 10, it'll either be a quick 2-0 and it won't matter much OR the rank 10 pulls a win and it gets interesting.
I think the biggest take away is that LCS is committed to trying different things and is attempting to listen. SO even if it fails, I think it's nice that they (markz) is trying.
Is there a reason why NA has been reluctant to follow LCKs format? I know its a lot more time in the studio and a longer day for the casters but i'm curious what are the hold ups in it? LCK teams seems to do pretty well at MSI and Worlds, why not follow what they do?
work ethic, people in LA are extremely lazy and self centered, people in Korea are driven to me thats literally the only logic and reasoning as to why the differences are there considering the amount of MONEY that is poured into the LCS each year by the teams rosters and sponsors.
I like BO3's, but in the right situation. I like BO3's (and BO5's) because you can get more hyped up about a matchup between 2 rivalling teams and see the matchup evolve over the course of the matches. However, in the case of the LCS (and also LEC) I don't prefer BO3's for the regular season, certainly not if this implies that it will only be a single round robin. In the LCK and LPL it (BO3's in the regular season) works well because, let's be honest, the general skill level and level of play is higher and more exiting to see. But even there, if you have 2 lower tier teams matching up it can become boring. With BO1's it can be a boring match but hey, it's 1 game and it's on to the next match which might be more exiting. With a BO3 there it can turn into 3 boring games back to back and then you've lost me as a viewer. My ideal situation still remains BO1 for the regular season with a double round robin and then some sort of playoffs with BO3's and BO5's. You could argue about what the best format for playoffs would be (only the top 4, 6 or even 8 teams, upper bracke/lower bracket, you loose you're out or getting another chance etc etc.), but in playoff's things matter more generally, as you're fighting for the championship and spots in international events. During the regular season you're only fighting for "not being bottom 2" aka preparing for playoffs.
I think for serious fans of the league this is an improvement, but it might hurt viewership among more casual fans. But I do hope that trade will pay off in the long term. The single round robin doesn't feel great, but a double round robin Bo1 with eight teams already felt bad. Dropping two teams made a 38% reduction in games, a fact that Riot seems to just be sweeping under the rug. Every single match could go to the third game and it's still fewer games in a season than we had with ten teams before. Meanwhile, most fans and as far as I hear all of the pros view more stage games as one of if not the biggest format priority. I can't speak for everyone, but if the problem really is just budget, I'd happily take more games at lower production quality, up to and including half of the games played remotely. So, an improvement over last split, but a half-assed one in the larger scheme of things. The break and the Esports World Cup are just dumb. Do better Riot.
insanely excited for bo3 i feel like it will help teams get better at drafting and more creative, and force teams to learn how to beat their opponents through more in game and in draft decisions
If the teams are as competitive as the last split and if they all look good, then I do believe Bo3 would be a good thing. But if there's any really bad teams. It would be boring to watch the top teams dominate the bottom teams and it be an easy 2-0 series.. i feel like it just depends on how good the teams are in summer split..
I somewhat agreed with your take that best of 3s wouldn't be good for the game in NA with your focus on past best of 3 experience and how viewership flopped. An issue with having best of 3s, but not extending production days misses why lck and lpl are succesful with having almost entire week coverage from wednesday to sunday. They will also schedule the most exciting games on fridays and saturdays. It seems pretty clear that NA is lacking the funding to expand production days, but wants to change their schedule to be like korea and china and thinks that will improve the experience.
I love Best of 3's. Works great in the eastern leagues and makes results much more true to reality. Any team can get a random win over another team with a great draft or a pocket pick but doing it twice in best of 3's is much harder!
I don’t know how much sway Mr mark z has in these decisions but I feel like the first year of his tenure is more about making change for the sake of data, the short spring split that was bo1 viewer data can be compared to summer bo3 data and then a decision for next year can be made about the correct path forward
I am excited for Bo3s I have wanted them forever. I am not however, excited about taking two weeks off from the LCS so that we can partner with a "brutal totalitarian regime," instead of playing a double round robin. This is just the first split doing this so I am going to cross my fingers that they fix it for spring split next year.
best of 3 might be good for results, but last time we did this I only watched TSM games and didn't have time for other teams. this year even though we didn't have enough games I watched them all, and became fans of all the teams in one way or another.
LCS is a product but it's a competitive video game product. It's no surprise that a lot of people do not want to watch it in a region that is not competitive. I think most people who want Bo3 see that as a stepping stone towards it becoming competitive.
Brutal Totalitarian Regime was a great line lmao
was he talking about riot or saudi arabia?
@@milkman2266 yes
and its edited meaning he said something else originally lol
Is Saudi worse than China....??
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon Honestly though china has many serious issue with it's ethnic/religious minorities, it's still much better than saudi. In china women can own property and walk around without male chaperone. Though homosexuality is frowned upon, it's not illegal. Again, not saying it's a free country by any means but definitely better
Love how u just immediately start with the news, no filler. This kind of content rocks.
i think we interact on twitter sometimes, but you and i might be the only glocca morra enjoyers in lolesports
I think some of the skepticism is well placed, but BO3 single round robin is at minimum, the same amount of games we get in a double round BO1, plus we get to see draft adaptation. Hope it works, looking forward to watching it, still wish we could get a higher quantity of games.
you can get 1 more game depending on not 2-0ing. so technically more games?
@@davidflaherty2152 Yessir, At minimum, same amount, maximum 50% more games.
B01 is an absolutely useless waste of time.
No one wants to watch a bad bo3 this is the worst decision Riot has made.
@@Jose-cr3zn I watch bad BO3s all the time. LEC. LCK, LPL. They all have bad BO3s. If you don't like the region then you won't watch. Is what it is.
The reason I am for this news is the fact that Bo3s are lot easier for me to get engaged in. In addition with how the league meta has been, I really hate when a team brings out a niche/pocket pick and catches another team offguard and not get to see how the team that lost would adjust to it. It’s so much more fun imo and the league has already declined with Bo1 format so I appreciate them giving us Bo3 lovers what we’ve been wanting for awhile now.
Dope!
Edit: just got to the single round robin part... I'd like to modify to a more medium dope level.
Lol you didn’t even watch 20 seconds into the video before commenting?? Wild
Me too 😂
@@Daedalus33, it had been up for 11 seconds and I have never had the opportunity to be the first comment on something that fresh. I shot my shot. No regrets.
@@sslusky i respect that
So I’m not sure how much it resonates with the “average” fan but if given the options between last split’s format of double round robin with 8 teams vs single round with bo3, I’m definitely happy with the change. The main thing I want is to see a more compelling and accurate representation of strength throughout the league and I think a single bo3 is more indicative of that than 2 isolated bo1
There is the really obvious better method of triple round Robin that actually forces teams to adapt to each other
I just wanted more games than the 14 we got last split. This likely gives us more, but I'm not sure it's exactly what I was hoping for. Still, I'm excited to see how it plays out. I wasn't watching the last time we did bo3, so I'm not sure what to expect.
8 teams in the league one team plays against 7 others so at most 21 games, at least 14, its not a big change and single round robin kind of sucks as teams will be better or worse on different patches, wish we could just copy the LCK's format.
Would be nice if they would do a double round robin giving each team a red side and blue side advantage. A couple superweeks and an early / late add on would allow the time. We have way too long breaks in the LCS.
No it wouldn't. Double round robin is a 14 week season, you could make it 12 weeks if you have 2 superweeks but you still have to add 2 weeks due to break for Saudi's tournament, so you back up to 14. If they start at the beginning of June, they would finish the regular season mid September which is way too late. Trying to condense the season down further will just lead to problems. The only way to do Double round robin with best of 3s is to have multiple streams.... which is what they did last time...
@@arthurmarshall6825 or just have more game days a week like lck
@@Wulfeylol That requires enough viewership to afford doubling the pay to all the production. Pretty much impossible since the current problem is viewership.
Just do loser get side selection
Thanks for the update, Travis
Travis in shambles
me checking the upload date isn't april 1st
Thanks Mark
Thanks as always for covering the league Travis! I tend to be on the side of trying new things and I definitely feel like bo3s might be something that can help...not sure about only doing a single round robin though I feel like that almost defeats the purpose of trying the bo3s. It'll also be interesting to see what playoff format they are hoping to use for summer finals i think that plays a role as well
I think there is a creative and effective way to do both BO1 and BO3 during a split. Either by mixing up BO3 and BO1 on the same days or changing to 3 days a week. You know worlds usually has a BO1 Stage and B03 stage only makes sense to have Live experience with both types during the split. Creates opportunity for the creative teams that might innovate to win the BO1 compared to more well rounded teams who can adapt and take over a BO3 series. I think this is also the only thing to make teams actually try a rare or really unique draft or pick on stage. Ive been a huge fan of the LCS and LOL sense it first began. I still try to watch every game no matter the day or times. So i understand i could be unique or bias in this thinking. But i do understand the possible kickback of the huge in devour of making this happen and the sustainability, and trying to register with the newer viewer. All that said i really like the idea of BO3. One round robin is just still not enough games. I get there has to be practice and days for review for teams. I just cant grasp how Live in game experience, adapting to actually playing out team fights and macro situations when it matters most isn't the best practice you can get. Teams have to get more games during the split if they ever want to narrow the gap. Hard work wins. Lazy scrims or lack of focus practices benefits no one. Put the game on the line make it count. If you want results the focus has to be to play more. If you can beat LCK and LPL teams, possibly win worlds. Viewers and players will join the hype. Always been that way. Hope LCS teams could put egos aside and just work hard and become better people and teamates and find ways to win.
Hallelujah! I have wanted best of 3s to return forever. And this is from someone who had to suffer through best of 3s for post Breaking Point Team Liquid. (Midlet was pretty funny, though.)
I hated single games so fuckin boring and felt like nothin is achieved, just whoever gets lucky in draft and game. BO3 brings better drafts and makes you feel like ur watching something that matters. Can’t wait to start watching LCS again
Thanks for reporting this, Travis. I'm stoked for this change! I started watching right after the last Bo3 era, so I haven't experienced it before. Even if it hurts viewership overall, I will definitely be watching more. I feel like Bo3 makes each game feel like a playoffs series, instead of a one-off game once a week.
Hey Travis, you said you read every comment so I wanted to say I love all of your content, but also ask a question -- what would you think of a format where a coach from each team is able to be on stage and in game as a spectator?
I think that would be interesting for a show match, but I don't see the game picking it up.
The players can't hear each other. Only the coach can hear and talk to all of them to relay info. :)
I hope things start to look up for you Travis. You are so great and I hope that you can continue to work on this channel
❤❤❤ tell the commish, great idea... Love it🎉🎉
Does this kill the pre draft thing that sped up transition times then?
I'm excited to see how best of 3 works out! Just wanted to say thanks for all the updates ❤ I appreciate your videos
single round robin is kind of expected but this is dope
Best of 3 sounds better, even as a single round robin we get same amount of games + a tie breaker for each I do agree that bo3 of the 2 bottom teams might get tedious, but overall I like the idea, in the end whatever helps the lcs grow for me.
I'm definitely sad to see single round robin but otherwise I'm pretty excited. Mainly just the hope that the league stays as competitive as it was this split so we average above 5 games and LCS can last a little longer. The cut down time between games was amazing but also it happening the split we go to 8 teams definitely made some of those LCS days feel like quick little 3 hour banger streams and then nothing for another week which wasn't great. I do feel like average viewership will probably go down with this, and I hate that because of what it will probably mean for the league, but as a fan who plans on being here it kinda seems like we were headed that way anyways so I would rather the viewing experience (and competitive experience) be the best it can be now, if it's gonna die let it die trying to show us some competition and not just ten players rolling out of bed for another scrim they don't care about cause 75% of the league makes playoffs anyways and nothing matters until best of series start.
i feel this as well. so many times it ended and i felt unsatisfied wanting more. that sucked and hopefully these go full 3 games often as you say.
With only 8 teams I was hoping for something like this.
The lcs not doing 2 round robins bo3 is just outrageous. There are so many ways they could do it. And finances is a BS reason, they games don’t need to have the full budget, and the players NEED to play more games.
My honest opinions as a long time fan of 1 team. I wouldn't call myself a fan of LCS, but my favorite team plays in the region. Here are a couple of things I like from this change:
1. Depending on scheduling (assuming it's going to be like VCT) I like that I have gained a whole extra day, I no longer have to worry about catching a game on both Saturday and Sunday.
2. I am probably going to watch the team that plays before (not sure about after) because I have a whole free day rather than tuning in for 1 game and going back to doing things.
3. Less variance. I will mostly know how good the teams are going into a game now that it's bo3
Some things I am hesitant about:
1. Game quality. If the meta is solved and it's just the same games over and over I would get bored faster because we potentially doubled the amount of games in a patch.
2.if a team crash and burns thats a lot of wasted air time
3. LONG games. I'm down for a 55 min game, but if it's 3 55 min games back to back, I will want to die.
Single round robin: I think it's fine actually. I hated it last year in vct but once playoffs came around but the mystery kinda built up the hype. "Team 1 beat team 2 in week 1 but since then Team 2 has shown massive improvement." If this is the only price we have to pay for bo3 I would be fine with it.
I want more games and to be able to see all the teams every week. If this change leads to that great.
I’m excited for it. Thanks for your content, Travis!
Thank you Travis.
My belief is that BO3's ideally allow adaptation and experimentation for teams so that 1) team strength is more accurately represented and 2) individual players can show different things, hopefully building hype or interest on the viewer side. Rich had 1 game each on Rumble, TF, and Jayce last split when he's known as a carry/ranged carry guy (at least in lane). Hopefully, we get more games to see more from players.
I'll be one watching MORE for best of threes. I've always been more of a vod reviewer but now I see more value in being present while the games are playing on. I, for one, HATE watching a series where I know the outcome (usually spoiled by the comments or vod length, besides caedrel)
Excited to see how it plays out, also excited to see if your hypothesis / scepticism is correct or not. As an aside, you are such an important voice for the community, really enjoyed the content this year (I've enjoyed it every year since s3), something about your coverage this year is really clicking with me. Best wishes Travis!
I think it's interesting that we had all been asking for BO3 back when viewership was strong. Not only did the LCS take WAY too long to listen and give it a try, but a single round robin is a clear toe dip into the idea, with likely no intention of jumping in. Viewership is unlikely to get anywhere near what it ever was. Experimenting this late in the game and acting like spikes in dismal viewership is a valid metric that you should be using is the wrong idea.
The LCS should always have been more focused on keeping their viewers happy than in gaining new viewers. If The LCS had followed this obvious strategy back when it really mattered, then we would either be playing BO3, and seeing those results internationally, or we would all be griping at the new kids about why it didn't work; and it would be coming from a retained player base 10 times the current size.
It can definetley be the case where less popular teams like Immortals, Dig game days are goimg to have really low viewership, and game days with polular teams just ends up with average viewership. Hopefully thats not the case, but maybe there will be some other benefits to the change.
the first league event i ever went to was lcs spring last year in raleigh! i wanted to go again this year if it was somewhat close to me but i didnt want to travel out to california :(
Peak LCS was bo3s. Super fucking hyped and this helps rookies get more stage time on their resume
1. I love that as time goes on and things (in general) keep getting worse and worse, Travis becomes ever so slightly more unhinged in his videos lol.
2. Very curious as to how Bo3 will go this time around. On the one hand I’m excited for the competitive aspect, I think a best of series is more compelling in general, but on the other hand my team was always TSM and I no longer have a team to root for. I still watch just about every LCS game, skipping the 8th vs 7th place matches generally, but I wonder if I’ll lose interest without having a horse in the race so-to-speak.
Ultimately, I’m happy with the overall direction under Mark. The changes he’s made (sorry, his TEAM has made) feel different than the typical Riot change where most of us fans and even creators/personalities in the space are wondering what the heck they’re doing. I’m optimistic!
im just glad we have the potential to get more games!! just 8 teams bo1s was not enough games, so at least we have the potential for a few more
Travis Gafford, Your videos always make me happy, so I subscribed!
You've commented this multiple times, but YT says you're not a subscriber, so I assume this is a bot you run.
I hope this encourages them to experiment with comps now that there’s less risk
What I actually find interesting is that they are implementing this change mid season instead of btw seasons. Maybe it shows how efficient the new commissioner is!
Travis, you convinced me about the dangers of LCS Bo3 with your previous video on the topic. I hope it works out, but this news has me anxious.
I really like bo3 because it allows for draft adaptation in a non playoff match i think the only reason it didn't work last time we tried it was because the teams involved didn't have a lot of hype for the lower teams but now that the league is a bit more competitive with itself it leads to people watching the games that they wouldn't have when it was the first time at attempted it
The reason I advocate for BO3 over BO1 is for the competitiveness of the region and the quality of the practice for the players, and the quality of the matches for the viewers second. I've written about BO3 v. BO1 elsewhere, so I'll copy paste what I've written on it here. Super pleased to see this implemented in any fashion, net positive even if it lowers viewership imo.
"I've been saying for years that BO1 format is a huge part of the reason for the west failing to meet expectations every year. BO3 is a true marker of who's the better team on the day, and it drives improvement forward more than BO1. There are 0 competitive negatives for BO3 to not be standard in all leagues. Teams get more stage games, BO3 trains players to perform in BO5 and the audience gets to watch a higher standard of play across the board. BO1 is simply easier for quick entertainment, but what drives esports is exciting competition not entertainment. Seriously laughable to me that the west hasn't adopted BO3 format, it actively dilutes the level of international competition, which is boring. If you've played BO3 all year, teams have played so many more games than BO1. Easier to adapt to BO1 from BO3 than it is to adapt to B03 from BO1, BO3 creates more experienced players that are better at adapting their draft/playstyle."
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
With only 8 teams in the League now and how the league looked in Spring, I'm excited for B03s. One of he biggest arguments for the decline of viewership with Bo3s is that there are matches that people don't want to watch 3 times, but I think all teams were pretty competitive last split and some just needed more stage time. I started watching LCS back around the time when it did Bo3s and I loved it. I've missed it a lot these years since. Plus Travis, your biggest argument is that viewership will decline, but sadly, viewership is declining as is with Bo1s anyway. LCS needed a big change and the Bo1s double round robin did not feel good to me with only 8 teams. It felt too short, too crunched, and it felt like teams were not adequately given the time to improve and show what they can do. Wish it was double round robin Bo3s, but I feel like this is a compromise headed in the right direction, considering the limitations that Riot has.
Its kind of sad. I watch the LCK finals and they have a full stadium, multi-million views, a great pre-show, etc...
Then I watch the LCS/LEC and its in a warehouse of 20 people with no pre-show.
Do we know the timeslot/days for the games?
Honestly, I think bo2s are far better for the summer split, mostly due to what should be, more games and more stage time. I think playing bo1s are unnecessary as none of the high level games can be decided by bo1s, bo3s need to be saved for playoffs as they will be more exciting and are good for actual gameplay.
BRUTAL TOTALITARIAN REGIME LMAOOO
IMO I believe the reason for BO3 in LCS is for it to become more successful in international competition, if it does work and a team/s gets to a semi's or even finals- naturally more people will start checking in with the region next year :)
LETSSS GOOOOO!!!!!
Best of 3's would be amazing for the LCS. It'll put the NA players at a better chance vs. the other international regions. More games = more playing time, practice, strategies, more serious gameplay. If the LPL, LCK and LEC are already doing this and perform much better on the international stage, why wouldn't we in LCS?
BEST VIDEO I'VE SeEN TRAVIS MAKE SO FAR!
LETS FREAKING GOOOOOOO IM SO HYPED
Best of three interview format now
Interesting. While I'm skeptical of it being a single round robin we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. It's also not the first NA league to have SRRBO3 as NACL did that in Spring, though they also used Fearless draft for the regular season as well (i.e. champs can only be picked by a team once per series, so if team A picked Teemo in G1 they can't pick him again in G2-3). Perhaps if Summer is successful LCS could try implementing Fearless draft in the future as well.
Cant unsee that bloodied tooth
im so sorry travis
Although a single round robin isn’t ideal, I’m excited for Bo3. I believe teams will start innovating draft a bit more. I wonder how it’s going to be with pre recorded drafts?
makes a series more crucial as they only play vs each other once a split. I'm for it
Excited for best of 3s, I get the production limits but single round robin is a bummer for sure
Genuinely think this will propell the LCS to new heights in terms of competition, this bridges the gap in skill between the regions and even offers more opportunities for academy players to play a game.
Pumped about this news. Hope its good for the league.
I think it is an interesting idea. I am not overly bothered by single round robin.
It means teams have a 14-21 game regular season as opposed to our current flat 14.
Hope they find a way to make each day have one solid best of 3.
Thanks for the update Travis! Is the commissioner still coming on Hotline League next Monday?
I'm disappointed, this was the best split of the LCS in a while but I get this was the best compromise to get BO3s into the format. At least we're not going back to 10 teams.
I'm excited for best of threes, only downside is it being single round robin because we know teams can have bad days. However, this also makes each unique matchup happen less frequently which could potentially be a plus for viewership.
Really liked this video (and the last about bo3) and I see your point. I can see this going either way but I hope it works.
But I do think (anf hope) what riot will get huge flame for that world cup shit
Before last split started, I agreed (and for many of the same reasons). However I think many teams are on such a fairly close level that I was excited to watch almost all of the games, so I think it will be true in the summer, and as long as skill levels are similar, this should be a good change. Instead of 1 game of rank 10 vs rank 9 team clown fiesta we get potentially 3!!!! And in the case of rank 1 vs rank 10, it'll either be a quick 2-0 and it won't matter much OR the rank 10 pulls a win and it gets interesting.
Bro that's so fucking good finally God damn.
Can’t wait
super excited
From my view, any change is good at this point. It will get me to at least check in for the first couple weeks before I get bored.
I think the biggest take away is that LCS is committed to trying different things and is attempting to listen. SO even if it fails, I think it's nice that they (markz) is trying.
Is there a reason why NA has been reluctant to follow LCKs format? I know its a lot more time in the studio and a longer day for the casters but i'm curious what are the hold ups in it? LCK teams seems to do pretty well at MSI and Worlds, why not follow what they do?
work ethic, people in LA are extremely lazy and self centered, people in Korea are driven
to me thats literally the only logic and reasoning as to why the differences are there considering the amount of MONEY that is poured into the LCS each year by the teams rosters and sponsors.
this is the way
Love the best of 3! Sucks to be single round Robin, but better than what we had.
I like BO3's, but in the right situation. I like BO3's (and BO5's) because you can get more hyped up about a matchup between 2 rivalling teams and see the matchup evolve over the course of the matches. However, in the case of the LCS (and also LEC) I don't prefer BO3's for the regular season, certainly not if this implies that it will only be a single round robin. In the LCK and LPL it (BO3's in the regular season) works well because, let's be honest, the general skill level and level of play is higher and more exiting to see. But even there, if you have 2 lower tier teams matching up it can become boring. With BO1's it can be a boring match but hey, it's 1 game and it's on to the next match which might be more exiting. With a BO3 there it can turn into 3 boring games back to back and then you've lost me as a viewer.
My ideal situation still remains BO1 for the regular season with a double round robin and then some sort of playoffs with BO3's and BO5's. You could argue about what the best format for playoffs would be (only the top 4, 6 or even 8 teams, upper bracke/lower bracket, you loose you're out or getting another chance etc etc.), but in playoff's things matter more generally, as you're fighting for the championship and spots in international events. During the regular season you're only fighting for "not being bottom 2" aka preparing for playoffs.
I think for serious fans of the league this is an improvement, but it might hurt viewership among more casual fans. But I do hope that trade will pay off in the long term.
The single round robin doesn't feel great, but a double round robin Bo1 with eight teams already felt bad. Dropping two teams made a 38% reduction in games, a fact that Riot seems to just be sweeping under the rug. Every single match could go to the third game and it's still fewer games in a season than we had with ten teams before. Meanwhile, most fans and as far as I hear all of the pros view more stage games as one of if not the biggest format priority. I can't speak for everyone, but if the problem really is just budget, I'd happily take more games at lower production quality, up to and including half of the games played remotely.
So, an improvement over last split, but a half-assed one in the larger scheme of things.
The break and the Esports World Cup are just dumb. Do better Riot.
Thank god
insanely excited for bo3 i feel like it will help teams get better at drafting and more creative, and force teams to learn how to beat their opponents through more in game and in draft decisions
Gett'em Travis!!
single round robin is fine but i really appreciate riot taking a chance with the bo3s and seeing how it goes
Loved the video.
If the teams are as competitive as the last split and if they all look good, then I do believe Bo3 would be a good thing. But if there's any really bad teams. It would be boring to watch the top teams dominate the bottom teams and it be an easy 2-0 series.. i feel like it just depends on how good the teams are in summer split..
this is fucking awesome
Would have preferred best of 2s and for me that two week break killed the momentum for me personally
I somewhat agreed with your take that best of 3s wouldn't be good for the game in NA with your focus on past best of 3 experience and how viewership flopped. An issue with having best of 3s, but not extending production days misses why lck and lpl are succesful with having almost entire week coverage from wednesday to sunday. They will also schedule the most exciting games on fridays and saturdays. It seems pretty clear that NA is lacking the funding to expand production days, but wants to change their schedule to be like korea and china and thinks that will improve the experience.
I remember bo3 back in the day and I remember being happy it ended.
I love Best of 3's. Works great in the eastern leagues and makes results much more true to reality. Any team can get a random win over another team with a great draft or a pocket pick but doing it twice in best of 3's is much harder!
I don’t know how much sway Mr mark z has in these decisions but I feel like the first year of his tenure is more about making change for the sake of data, the short spring split that was bo1 viewer data can be compared to summer bo3 data and then a decision for next year can be made about the correct path forward
Extremely excited. I doubt anyone wants a single round robin but anything that involves best of 3 ups my interest greatly.
Awesome!
single round, a bit sadder, but...still, DOPE!
I am excited for Bo3s I have wanted them forever. I am not however, excited about taking two weeks off from the LCS so that we can partner with a "brutal totalitarian regime," instead of playing a double round robin. This is just the first split doing this so I am going to cross my fingers that they fix it for spring split next year.
best of 3 might be good for results, but last time we did this I only watched TSM games and didn't have time for other teams. this year even though we didn't have enough games I watched them all, and became fans of all the teams in one way or another.
LCS is a product but it's a competitive video game product. It's no surprise that a lot of people do not want to watch it in a region that is not competitive. I think most people who want Bo3 see that as a stepping stone towards it becoming competitive.
Awww sh** here we go again
Incoming loss in views