Started watching over a taillight replacement, subbed for this one. Super, super cool. Not overly verbose, straightforward talk from a true craftsman and engineer. Thanks man.
You should try using FDM printed PVA molds for casting. The PVA print can be dissolved in water after the cast, which makes it a loss cast, but in exchange you can do some pretty interesting geometry's and the mold is ready for casting right off the print bed.
Eric, I had an idea to use a self stirring cup with a magnetic pill mixer if you've seen the ones I mean? The idea is to mix parts A & B of polyurethane resins, with a short pot life, in the vacuum chamber without having to wait for the vacuum to pump out the air. If I construct a tilting hinged cup that operates with an external magnet, I can tip part B into the already stirring cup with no air present. This will increase the pot life and create clearer bubble free casts. It would be cheaper than an industrial vacuum casting machine. Do you think this would work?
Hey Eric! I admire your mold techniques and learned a lot from you. As a thank you, I feel like I have to suggest something 3D printing. I think this model can be printed on vertical axis and better turn it around 45 degrees on vertical axis. Also use heavy supports when you do it. You can even use auto supports. That helps you to protect your master against support damages. It takes more time but the quality of the model will be really different. I hope you can try it sometime, thanks for your precious informations again. Good luck!
I've been doing this for 2 years now it's great. I use it to make master moulds, which i then coat in resin so the surface is smooth and shiny, and then from that i cast the final silicone mould which i then cast the final part in from resin.
Confused. You cast a mould from a mould, or do you mean you use it (3D printing) to make master *parts*, which you then process to improve the finish before making a silicone mould from those? ... or you've been using the same formlabs resin to directly make silicone moulds that eric did?
Thanks for the review. Looks like this material will come into its own for direct silicon prototype part printing; gaskets, anti vibration mounts, phone cases, etc. From your review it just seems too much hassle compared to your usual methods for making silicon molds.
I think it is less of a burden to 3D print the positive, and make the mold out of it then. Atleast until we could 3d print mold with less support involved.
Yeah, in theory you are removing a step and wasting less material, in reality you are just signing up for a whole load of unnecessary hassle, I'm sure this has applications, but making molds isn't really one of them, practically speaking.
You can actually do this with Elastic 50A as well, but obviously with slightly inferior material properties. Definitely opens up some cool possibilities though...but n bunyl acetate is either really expensive or impossible to get here in Canada and silicone 40A is a really pricey resin in itself too. Great video though!
just made me think. do you have any videos showing how to make silicone parts, like the same material they make those kids bubble wrap popper toys, or the silicone sleeves that go on AirPods case or cell phone cases’ outer protective sleeve , or those logos on a backpack or luggage ?
There’s a lower cost process that you can use to make silicone molds. I’m using a standard 3D printer to make a PLA mold for the silicone mold that I want to make. Generally the PLA mold gets broken while unmolding the silicone mold but it works. The silicone doesn’t need cleaning in a chemical bath because it fully cure by itself.
Interesting review. 👍 Would silicone printed molds be good for gang molds or production molds? How's the tear strength and how many pulls can you get before it deteriorates? Kind of curious.
Actually they might work really great for gang molds. However the tear strength is low on these in my opinion so the moles would have to be really simple and handled delicately.
Hey Eric, I struggle with the big wing nuts on my pressure pot, the leverage is awkward and totally not what a wing nut was designed for. I noticed that you have re-made yours into knobs. Can you give me a brief overview of how you made them stout enough? I can design my own, I just need to make them to where they stand up to abuse.
How durable is it? I have steering knuckle boots I have to make since the NOS rubber shredded within a couple weeks worse than the part I replaced was. Plus I need a material that is a little more supple in winter time temps.
So if you look at the workflow section of the silicone 40a page you’ll see that they recommend submerging parts in water inside of the form cure before curing. Maybe doing this would give you some better tear resistance and increase mold lifetime? Love the video though!
I’m currently using n-Butyl acetate to clean polished cast aluminium. I can honestly say…It ain’t cheap by a country mile. I’d love to know the ratios you have to mix it at.
Very interesting. Definitely dig the idea and direction it's going but boy oh boy I don't know if the cost is worth it in the end. I currently print molds using TPU and have had tons of great success with it. Since you can get different ones in various shore hardness' it really helps to be able to find the right flexibility and rigidity per-mold-requirements. Sometimes I'll co-bond the TPU with another rigid filament if I need a solid platform or channel within the mold. I haven't tried any flexible 3D resin prints yet I know there's a few flexible 3d resins that aren't silicone, kind of curious how well they work in comparison to this formlab silicone based photopolymer. They might be a decent cost saving solution. Not sure. I know FDM molds still work pretty good though despite the print lines and maybe a couple extra steps.
I'm struggling with the super-glue bit at 7:48. Wouldn't a thin coat of uncured silicone bond torn silicone back together once it has cured? Why the extra expense of Tech-Bond Poly Kit? When you make the second part of a two part silicone mold, you have to apply a mold release barrier to the first part, because silicone sticks to almost nothing but silicone.
I've made a couple silicone "toys" with printed molds. Coat the inside with beeswax before casting and no layer lines. When some loss of detail is acceptable anyway. I'm going to possibly use the same process for motor mounts and bushings in the future.
I wonder if the usual Formlabs materials can survive the "silicone" printing cleaning and curing process, which might allow rigid-soft comolding emulation?
That's what I was saying. Not to hate on his effort or process. I just think that all that extra prep and post print cleanup doesnt really result in a cleaner mold or more efficient method (for the time being anyway) :D
Its cool but is it really that beneficial? Especially with all the prep and post cleanup you have to do ? It's really not that hard to make a silicone mold the traditional way. Even if you're making multi part molds. The tough part, in my opinion, is the design of the mold and strategic seperating and draft lines. ** Also, you said this saves time by not having to "finish a positive and then make a mold" but who would want to that? I never make molds without testing my positive out first. You may be considerably more confident/skilled than I but I would still want to test something before I went through all the trouble of making a mold :D Oh and I like that you have the Mando theme at the end of your video lol
So 1l is around $500, at least what i found, those 2 parts i reckon to print will be like $150-200 or more... i can buy almost 15 kg of silicone for that price and get 40-60 molds out of it. Or am i missing something?
@@EricStrebel so with regular method I can't do any color any material? Because I can. Still I am missing the point. Doing molds should reduce the cost not increase, so far I just see you promoting it for sake of commissions thy pay and because price is so high you get good commission. That's what I see so far. Prove me other way. Why printing in regular resin and then make 2 part mold isn't as good as your expensive method?
@@EricStrebel ah well it’s interesting though - how did the result feel to you? I’ve found their silicone doesn’t have great tear strength particularly at lower wall thicknesses
@EricStrebel I mean for example the bottom you made a mold for. Start with a clear printer UV resin and add color or do the colors you use interfere with the specs of the resin?
Well first of all there's no such thing as a clear UV resin they all yellow over time, and what am I going to do with the resin that's left in the vet from that one quick test?
@EricStrebel Don't all clear resins yellow over time, even the UV resistant ones? I suppose you could put about what you will need to make the print in the vat and store the rest in a small container? What do you do with the rest of the leftover 2 part resin I see you have left over in your videos? I'd guess you have to toss it?
But if you can print the silicone, why not skip the mold and print the desired part? Only because of color? Printing silicone molds is a good way to cast molten metal.
First of all, I don’t think this stuff is ‘silicone’. Silicone is a specific compound that has specific properties. It’s just a printable elastomer. Second of all, what’s the advantage of spending time modeling a mold and printing it, when the same amount of time can model a split master for pouring both halves of a mold at once, and then you have a tool for making as many molds as you might need? I think iterating hard prints is what you do to refine the design. And the only time to go to mold is if you have a final design you want to produce in bulk.
The machine has some nice capabilities, but the process is messy and the tanks and resin expire and are thrown out if you don’t use it somewhat quickly, which gets expensive on top of the cost of the machine
In every conceivable way, this just seems worse than doing it normally. Maybe the material and print process could be improved, but as it is now it's hot garbo for molding. Making a master and pouring around it just seems like less hassle.
It's a gamechanger as long as you have that $20.000 setup and you're fine with mediocre parts. You could do vapour smoothed FDM prints in half the time at a tenth of the effort though.
You complain about mediocre part quality, then suggest as an alternative a technology that's unsuitable for fine details, has poor surface finish and is suceptible to delamination thanks to low strength in the z direction? FDM printing is pretty much the worst prototyping tech available for cosmetic parts, and vapor smoothing is somewhat of a bandaid fix (only works for some filaments and "smooths out" all details, including the ones you want to keep). It's somewhat better for mechanical parts, but even there the anisotropy isn't great. Besides the goal here is to create batches of identical parts, something casting is better suited for. You want to limit post processing.
Not a game changer. Rubber and resin manufacturing veteran here. I could have batch printed more with tough resin on a large format resin printer before having 1 cast from the printed mold. Let's start adding design time and failures. Game changer if you like wasting money and time.
@@EricStrebel who cares about color that much? If it's a full production product where you're using multiple molds and casting materials, sure. Neat video and ability to do it, but this isn't sustainable as a manufacturing technique.
I care about color and many designers do and should, and this is totally not in any way shape or form for manufacturing. This is purely a prototyping option.
Thank you! This was very helpful and really appreciate you sharing multiple attempts!
Started watching over a taillight replacement, subbed for this one. Super, super cool. Not overly verbose, straightforward talk from a true craftsman and engineer. Thanks man.
Great job putting together a hands on look at printable silicone. It was helpful to have your look at it.
You should try using FDM printed PVA molds for casting. The PVA print can be dissolved in water after the cast, which makes it a loss cast, but in exchange you can do some pretty interesting geometry's and the mold is ready for casting right off the print bed.
Good idea
Super informative!
The silicon bonding glue sounds very useful. Will check that out for sure. Thank you for sharing with us.
But he forgot to put the link in the description. Anyone know what it is?
Love it! I'm looking at getting a Form 4 for work because this exact process would be incredibly helpful for us
Also it makes cores easy, no more hanging or balancing cores, just print one that clips on or stands on or around the main mould.
Eric, I had an idea to use a self stirring cup with a magnetic pill mixer if you've seen the ones I mean? The idea is to mix parts A & B of polyurethane resins, with a short pot life, in the vacuum chamber without having to wait for the vacuum to pump out the air. If I construct a tilting hinged cup that operates with an external magnet, I can tip part B into the already stirring cup with no air present. This will increase the pot life and create clearer bubble free casts. It would be cheaper than an industrial vacuum casting machine. Do you think this would work?
Hey Eric! I admire your mold techniques and learned a lot from you. As a thank you, I feel like I have to suggest something 3D printing. I think this model can be printed on vertical axis and better turn it around 45 degrees on vertical axis. Also use heavy supports when you do it. You can even use auto supports. That helps you to protect your master against support damages. It takes more time but the quality of the model will be really different. I hope you can try it sometime, thanks for your precious informations again. Good luck!
Love the video and info!
Finally found you again. Subscribed.
You dropped this 👑
Thanks
Had a theory, did an experiment, reported valid results. Subbed!
Thanks
I've been doing this for 2 years now it's great. I use it to make master moulds, which i then coat in resin so the surface is smooth and shiny, and then from that i cast the final silicone mould which i then cast the final part in from resin.
Confused. You cast a mould from a mould, or do you mean you use it (3D printing) to make master *parts*, which you then process to improve the finish before making a silicone mould from those? ... or you've been using the same formlabs resin to directly make silicone moulds that eric did?
Super interesting and useful. Mahalo for sharing! : )
Thanks for the review. Looks like this material will come into its own for direct silicon prototype part printing; gaskets, anti vibration mounts, phone cases, etc. From your review it just seems too much hassle compared to your usual methods for making silicon molds.
I think it is less of a burden to 3D print the positive, and make the mold out of it then. Atleast until we could 3d print mold with less support involved.
Yeah, in theory you are removing a step and wasting less material, in reality you are just signing up for a whole load of unnecessary hassle, I'm sure this has applications, but making molds isn't really one of them, practically speaking.
You can actually do this with Elastic 50A as well, but obviously with slightly inferior material properties. Definitely opens up some cool possibilities though...but n bunyl acetate is either really expensive or impossible to get here in Canada and silicone 40A is a really pricey resin in itself too. Great video though!
try tpu with 100% infill but thin walls, sprue on top on half-line split. how about diy from pre-drilled aluminium corner beam.
So amazing 🎉
Thanks
just made me think. do you have any videos showing how to make silicone parts, like the same material they make those kids bubble wrap popper toys,
or the silicone sleeves that go on AirPods case or cell phone cases’ outer protective sleeve , or those logos on a backpack or luggage ?
Yes, several
There’s a lower cost process that you can use to make silicone molds. I’m using a standard 3D printer to make a PLA mold for the silicone mold that I want to make. Generally the PLA mold gets broken while unmolding the silicone mold but it works. The silicone doesn’t need cleaning in a chemical bath because it fully cure by itself.
Interesting review. 👍 Would silicone printed molds be good for gang molds or production molds? How's the tear strength and how many pulls can you get before it deteriorates? Kind of curious.
Actually they might work really great for gang molds. However the tear strength is low on these in my opinion so the moles would have to be really simple and handled delicately.
Hey Eric, I struggle with the big wing nuts on my pressure pot, the leverage is awkward and totally not what a wing nut was designed for. I noticed that you have re-made yours into knobs. Can you give me a brief overview of how you made them stout enough? I can design my own, I just need to make them to where they stand up to abuse.
They are hollow, they snap together and I fill them with resin
@@EricStrebel great, thank you so much
Hey. Thanks for this. Very interesting! You mention curing under pressure using heat... How do you add the heat please? TIA :)
Heater band
@@EricStrebelah right ok. Thank you. Any particular one you recommend?
@Makeup-Effects eBay
How durable is it? I have steering knuckle boots I have to make since the NOS rubber shredded within a couple weeks worse than the part I replaced was. Plus I need a material that is a little more supple in winter time temps.
Not particularly durable
Cool method 👏 But have you came across some cheaper silicone resin? This one seems quite expensive:(
Might be a good application for inserts to larger more accurate molds.
Certain shapes that need a sacrificial insert of complex geometry?
Perhaps
Wooow
Would this resin work for other resin printers, I already have a machine and would like to try
try washing in warm water after printing and cleaning with alochol, remove supports (alot easier in warm water with a tooth brush) then cure
So if you look at the workflow section of the silicone 40a page you’ll see that they recommend submerging parts in water inside of the form cure before curing. Maybe doing this would give you some better tear resistance and increase mold lifetime? Love the video though!
Yes, I forgot to do that
Is there any reason you're not using a mold release? Seems like it would help with mold cleanup and lifespan.
Silicone should not need mold release
🤔 Do you know any thermoset resin that is not brittle? Epoxy is pretty shatterproof but softens under slight heat like sunlight.
Contact your local manufacturer for details they usually have tech support that can help you
@@EricStrebel Thanks
I’m currently using n-Butyl acetate to clean polished cast aluminium.
I can honestly say…It ain’t cheap by a country mile.
I’d love to know the ratios you have to mix it at.
cute doggo.
Very interesting. Definitely dig the idea and direction it's going but boy oh boy I don't know if the cost is worth it in the end. I currently print molds using TPU and have had tons of great success with it. Since you can get different ones in various shore hardness' it really helps to be able to find the right flexibility and rigidity per-mold-requirements. Sometimes I'll co-bond the TPU with another rigid filament if I need a solid platform or channel within the mold. I haven't tried any flexible 3D resin prints yet I know there's a few flexible 3d resins that aren't silicone, kind of curious how well they work in comparison to this formlab silicone based photopolymer. They might be a decent cost saving solution. Not sure. I know FDM molds still work pretty good though despite the print lines and maybe a couple extra steps.
How do you add heat to your pressure tank?
Band heater
I'm struggling with the super-glue bit at 7:48.
Wouldn't a thin coat of uncured silicone bond torn silicone back together once it has cured? Why the extra expense of Tech-Bond Poly Kit?
When you make the second part of a two part silicone mold, you have to apply a mold release barrier to the first part, because silicone sticks to almost nothing but silicone.
I've made a couple silicone "toys" with printed molds. Coat the inside with beeswax before casting and no layer lines. When some loss of detail is acceptable anyway.
I'm going to possibly use the same process for motor mounts and bushings in the future.
I wonder if the usual Formlabs materials can survive the "silicone" printing cleaning and curing process, which might allow rigid-soft comolding emulation?
Nice! Would be nicer if I an cast metal in the silicon mold
Молодцом!
Is there a reason you don't use pourable silicone or even caulk poured into a TPU 3D print?
Yes I'm not trying to make silicone part, and I'm trying to reduce steps
Personally, I would have 3D printed the part and then made the mold to suit. Great viewing though, thanks for sharing!
That's what I was saying. Not to hate on his effort or process. I just think that all that extra prep and post print cleanup doesnt really result in a cleaner mold or more efficient method (for the time being anyway) :D
what size syringe are you using?
69cc
Its cool but is it really that beneficial? Especially with all the prep and post cleanup you have to do ? It's really not that hard to make a silicone mold the traditional way. Even if you're making multi part molds. The tough part, in my opinion, is the design of the mold and strategic seperating and draft lines.
** Also, you said this saves time by not having to "finish a positive and then make a mold" but who would want to that? I never make molds without testing my positive out first. You may be considerably more confident/skilled than I but I would still want to test something before I went through all the trouble of making a mold :D
Oh and I like that you have the Mando theme at the end of your video lol
If that is real silicone, try pouring some pewter into it. Silicone handles molten pewter very well.
So 1l is around $500, at least what i found, those 2 parts i reckon to print will be like $150-200 or more... i can buy almost 15 kg of silicone for that price and get 40-60 molds out of it. Or am i missing something?
Yes, you're totally missing the point, you do any color or material you want with this method.
@@EricStrebel so with regular method I can't do any color any material? Because I can. Still I am missing the point. Doing molds should reduce the cost not increase, so far I just see you promoting it for sake of commissions thy pay and because price is so high you get good commission. That's what I see so far. Prove me other way. Why printing in regular resin and then make 2 part mold isn't as good as your expensive method?
@Jokershadow696 proof of concept....
@@EricStrebel but you don't have effeciency like at all. Is pure money burning process... But yeah.. It works.
8:13 I think you forgot to leave that silicone superglue activator link in the description. Would be appreciated if you did, or leave it here :)
Wait - you cured without water as advised?
Yes, I did not have a handy container and then forgot about it, your correct, I messed up on that
@@EricStrebel ah well it’s interesting though - how did the result feel to you? I’ve found their silicone doesn’t have great tear strength particularly at lower wall thicknesses
Their strength is poor
There is a silicon filaments !? Wow ! I had no idea. I’m a Japanese and watching you from JPN! ( ^ω^ )
UV Silicone resin
Nice Aphex Wallpaper ;)
Why can't you print the part directly on the resin printer for parts that are for prototyping?
How would I get subtle color changes or various material changes by printing them?
@EricStrebel I mean for example the bottom you made a mold for. Start with a clear printer UV resin and add color or do the colors you use interfere with the specs of the resin?
Well first of all there's no such thing as a clear UV resin they all yellow over time, and what am I going to do with the resin that's left in the vet from that one quick test?
@EricStrebel Don't all clear resins yellow over time, even the UV resistant ones? I suppose you could put about what you will need to make the print in the vat and store the rest in a small container? What do you do with the rest of the leftover 2 part resin I see you have left over in your videos? I'd guess you have to toss it?
I can't understand why did you even try to print it with the support?
btw, mica powder significantly decreases the material strength
so???
@EricStrebel Hey, noticing the flag from my hometown. Groeten uit Amsterdam ✌🏽
But if you can print the silicone, why not skip the mold and print the desired part? Only because of color?
Printing silicone molds is a good way to cast molten metal.
👍👍👍👍
If it's just about testing why don't you print in resin straight away?
No color or material options....
@@EricStrebel can't you add color to the resin? Yeah options are limited.. Abs-like resin. It's weird how we still don't have much options yet.
Not for one test print, and my whole tank of resin is tinted
why not make an open-ended mold for this part? It's not like you have anything other than a flat surface on the top of the lid.
First of all, I don’t think this stuff is ‘silicone’. Silicone is a specific compound that has specific properties. It’s just a printable elastomer. Second of all, what’s the advantage of spending time modeling a mold and printing it, when the same amount of time can model a split master for pouring both halves of a mold at once, and then you have a tool for making as many molds as you might need? I think iterating hard prints is what you do to refine the design. And the only time to go to mold is if you have a final design you want to produce in bulk.
well seems that is not a solutions. the printer look good but I prefer the classic way to make my moulds
The machine has some nice capabilities, but the process is messy and the tanks and resin expire and are thrown out if you don’t use it somewhat quickly, which gets expensive on top of the cost of the machine
dude just use PETG I print moulds for silicone it pulls right out
In every conceivable way, this just seems worse than doing it normally. Maybe the material and print process could be improved, but as it is now it's hot garbo for molding. Making a master and pouring around it just seems like less hassle.
Trash robotics already made this and they made a soft grippers with that
I am doing this since lot of years with "pluggable 3D-prints" done with Ultimaker and PRUSA FDM prints. No stinky & unhealthy resin
Beware, uncured silicone is a notorious contaminant. Good luck bonding or painting anything after working with it.
Oh wow.. you lived under a rock for past 10 years? :D
Apparently
Love everything but your whoosh sound every few minutes - remove that and I'll spread the word!
It's a gamechanger as long as you have that $20.000 setup and you're fine with mediocre parts. You could do vapour smoothed FDM prints in half the time at a tenth of the effort though.
Lol, do your research and think before you post comments like this next time, because you're way off base and wrong and you're missing the point.
@@EricStrebel So mad that you were unable to produce a single argument. Oh well, what can you expect from a sponsor puppet.
You complain about mediocre part quality, then suggest as an alternative a technology that's unsuitable for fine details, has poor surface finish and is suceptible to delamination thanks to low strength in the z direction?
FDM printing is pretty much the worst prototyping tech available for cosmetic parts, and vapor smoothing is somewhat of a bandaid fix (only works for some filaments and "smooths out" all details, including the ones you want to keep). It's somewhat better for mechanical parts, but even there the anisotropy isn't great.
Besides the goal here is to create batches of identical parts, something casting is better suited for. You want to limit post processing.
This is about speeding up your design process and exploring specific colors and materials durometers, FDM is not about that.
Not mad, just pointing out you did not do your research before you commented
Not a game changer. Rubber and resin manufacturing veteran here. I could have batch printed more with tough resin on a large format resin printer before having 1 cast from the printed mold. Let's start adding design time and failures. Game changer if you like wasting money and time.
How would you do all the color variants? Solids and translucent or micas?
@@EricStrebel who cares about color that much? If it's a full production product where you're using multiple molds and casting materials, sure. Neat video and ability to do it, but this isn't sustainable as a manufacturing technique.
I care about color and many designers do and should, and this is totally not in any way shape or form for manufacturing. This is purely a prototyping option.
@@EricStrebel enjoy losing money in production and prototyping
It's a money winner, my clients gladly pay for that service.
My favorite part was where he moved his pile of crap on the table into a pile of crap on the wall :D
I kid, I kid!
This is an outstanding channel.