0010 Has Dapol lost the plot with reliability of N gauge tender locos?
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- I've had a lot of trouble with the mechanical quality of Dapol N gauge tender locomotives that I ordered in 2022 - I think Dapol must have a serious quality control problem. In this video I summarise the issues that I've had, and ask how other people have fared.
Back when I was still doing N gauge I really wanted to get my hands on a Southern Schools class and saw that Dapol had made an example, prompting me to do some research on the model to see if it was a good a fit - I ended up on the an old string of posts on the dapol forums where a massive design flaw in the schools models had been discovered by several users shortly after the school's line was released, basically it was discovered by several unlucky users that if the front pony truck derailed it would immediately get caught in the loco valve gear causing a critical failure that binds the system until it was bent beyond repair. - Dapol's response on this thread went from "we're looking into it" to essentially "we don't want to make any changes that'll sacrifice detail, it's not a big deal" it amazes me that they could overlook such a massive glaring issue - nowadays I avoid Dapol steam like the plague.
Hi Seth, thanks for sharing what you found - that sounds like a pretty bad attitude from them, and if it's indicative of their way of thinking in general then it could explain a lot.
One of the reasons I gave up on steam loco models in N Gauge and now just do modern era in N Gauge.
Hi Mike, thanks - I must admit I've considered that myself a few times lately! Endoor is any era though, so at least I've got a couple of working steam locos.
@Endoor: N Gauge Railway my layout is called Whatif, and I can run anything I want from any region I want. Great fun. I have Southwest trains arriving at a terminus station with GNER and others. Rule One. 👍😉
I like that :)
Hi Jonathan. I'm so sorry to hear of your running problems with Dapol tender locos. I have bought a few but have yet to run them as I'm in the process of laying track. If I were to experience similar problems, I would be in big trouble as I have been collecting locos for some time and haven't tested them!
Hi Paul, thanks for your comment. Hopefully you'll fare better than I have, but if not, and if my suspicion about DIY fixing is correct, then there should at least be a lot of people around who'll be able to help out with some fixing advice.
Hi Jonathan, interesting stuff, thanks for uploading. The only steam loco I will have, is a recently purchased 7MT Firth of Clyde! It will be a considerable lenght of time till I'm able to run it, due to your video, I may well try to bring this date forward to assess if alls' well. Ironically, my modern image (70's to 90's} fleet has an opposing issue. All my Dapol loco's run fine, it's the Farish loco's I'm really struggling with. Apart from the 4x class 40's I have, which run well, the remaining loco's all have issues. It's very frustrating.
Hi, yes I'd definitely recommend a trial run somewhere if you can, and I hope yours works well. Thanks for sharing your experience - I'd hoped that Graham Farish would be more reliable (I don't have much by GF, but have a couple on pre-order). I've heard several people remark at how much better N gauge locos run these days compared with a while ago... if that's the case I dread to think what it used to be like.
Oh, I so agree with you about the 9F. I bought one in 2022 and it looks really good but out of the box it had the tender wobble so I returned it for repair (which takes 4 - 5 weeks). On return it ran a lot better but after probably a couple of hours running the motion disconnected so back again for repair and I've kept it. I think Dapol steam do look extremely good but I'm now Farish only.
Hi Ian, thanks for that - it sounds like an overall similar experience, fingers crossed it's the last of the failures!
i have shifted to N gauge now and immediately picked up on the forums to dump dapol in favour of any Kato stock or even German stock from abroad. Whilst with oo scale i found Hornby engines even brand new at £150, were unreliable with many similar problems you have had with your locos. Had mostly diesel classes like the 56 as a child which ran several times until it stopped. Later on in my teens, bought a brand-new class 90 off Amazon, which burnt the motor out on its first run. Hornby warned me they weren't liable to repair the loco, but did it anyway free as it was still in warranty. After that, i stopped all model rail purchases of bigger locos from Hornby and switched to a different scale, but that was mainly due to scale and size.
I'm glad you were aware of the issues from early on! Sounds like you got fed up with Hornby in the same way as many have with Dapol. Thanks for sharing your experience of it.
While I don't have any experience with Dapol steam locos, I have a decent size collection of Dapol diesel locos (especially HSTs). So far, I would say i have got a "good" model 1/4 of the time. Dapol are known for bad QC. If you get a good one, keep it for life! I have thankfully gotten very good at repairing the faulty ones, but it shouldn't have to be this way.
Hi Will, thanks for sharing your experience. I've fared far better on diesels (though have a whole other video planned just for issues with the HSTs) - a one-quarter "good" proportion, with DIY repair needed is awful - that somewhat takes the "ready" out of "ready to run"! What you've shared is what I suspected might be going on more broadly, but didn't realise it could be as bad with the diesels too.
But the English are more famous for destroying brands.
They've killed off thousands of brands already.
The male gossip MUST STOP ✋️.
You cannot afford to destroy any more brands.
You buying 1 of each is the main problem.
You're supposed to buy 2 or three so you have a backup or spare.
If you want the perfect loco, you're buying from the hand made professional.
@@Gma7788 I'll happily buy 2 or 3 of each loco, if you pay for it! With locos at least £100 on average, (HSTs and other units £200+) each, most of us can't afford to buy 3 of the same thing. Would you buy 3 TVs just in case one didn't work? No!
Hi Will, ditto. I purchased a Class 66 new and its driveshaft detached from the boggie drive mechanism during run-in, I have a Class 86 that has been a nightmare from new. Dapol quality is akin to playing the Lotto; you feel quite special when it comes up trumps. When we're paying, in instances of sound-chip loco's now, the equivalent to a mortgage it's frankly not on.
Hi Jonathan - I had a similar issue with my Dapol Flying Scotsman as well, but my issue apart from the wobble you experienced was the diddy wires that dropped off within an hour of running it. I had the same stop start issues initially and a slightly noisy motor, but soon the wires snapped or came off and no matter how or what I tried the wires would not stay in place. The connecting link also came off as the brass screw holder part was not correctly glued in and I lost it some where on the track. I super glued it back in and its been ok but its really not good enough for the amount of money I spent on it. I will no longer buy from dapol if they continue to build with the Centre shaft drive and diddy wires.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve, thanks for sharing your experience. Someone else has mentioned those connecting cables too, and you may have added a couple of new things to the list - there just seem to be so many areas where these models can, and do, go wrong. Here's hoping the rumour of a change in approach by Dapol is both true and successful.
I have been collecting Dapol steam locos for years and have unfortunately had many issues. I did find the company to be helpful in dealing with this. I think the weaknesses with the steam locos are:
Tender to loco wires snap.
Valve gear metal is soft and thin.
Cardan shaft disengages very easily.
Pickup can be poor when relying on bearings to pick up.
Tenders sometimes amplify the noisy motor sound.
Motors get hot.
Wobbles
Extremely delicate.
I had all the above problems with a Dapol N Gauge A4 valanced, drive rods disconnected, got bent, cardan shaft was useless, even handling it correctly, no good at all, so much went wrong with it, I'll NEVER buy another Dapol loco.
Hi, thank you for providing that list - it's quite a few things that can go wrong! I'm glad you've found Dapol helpful - my only direct experience with them left me slightly worse-off after a long wait, so for me they'd be a last resort.
I had issues with a brand new "Schools" class straight from the box. It wobbled round the layout. I could see the problem was a loose traction tyre and returned it for a warranty repair. When I got it back, it had new tyres and had been serviced. However... the fine loco-tender connecting wires had been re-routed to the underside the draw bar and were now hanging down and rubbing on the track!!.... Fine model to look at, but does seem fragile.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you sent it back for the repair - that helps highlight to Dapol and the retailers that there are problems, and effectively gives them a penalty for it, which should help to encourage them to make things better. Shame about those wires though - someone else who's commented has had that sort of issue too.
My brand new Dapol pannier ran awful from the very start....this is the umpteenth time I've experienced this with Dapol. So, I took the motor out, bought a Kato chassis and fitted it to a goods van and it runs brilliantly !!!!
Thanks for sharing how it's been for you, shame it's also been bad. That's a drastic "fix", but ultimately at least gets you the pannier running with a train
I have a Dapol 7MT that appears to have encountered the infamous motor brush issue. Incredibly rough running, constantly surging and stuttering, wobbles, and overheats like crazy, especially when running backwards. Exact same livery and running number you had too. Honestly, we need to teach Dapol that we won't tolerate their garbage - by not buying ANY of their products.
I will say this, though - I actually do like their tender-driven design from a conceptual point of view. By sticking the motor in the tender, it allows them to put a big, heavy weight over the drive wheels which increases adhesive force. But that's meaningless if it can't even run light on flat track without threatening to catch fire.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience of the 7MT and other thoughts. Sadly there aren't many manufacturers to choose from in British N gauge, so they've almost got a monopoly, if Graham Farish doesn't produce lots of models. I think I've fared OK with Dapol diesels, and I really enjoy my Hall class, which works fine, so it's just these more recent steam ones that I'm avoiding. Hopefully sending bad ones back does send a message.
I’m sorry to see you’ve had bad luck with steam locos. When I started n gauge I was told to stay away from them. So you’re not the only one. For this reason is why I stuck too diesel. However the gwr ones that are working are the only ones I’d consider . Phew 😂 it is unacceptable though. 5 out of 6 isn’t on at all. I must add out of all my trains the dapol one is the only one where something has stopped working. It’s only the head lights but still. They look incredible though 👍
Thanks for the comment. I think by now I probably own more diesel than steam, mainly because of what's available to buy, but if I could only have one or the other I'd have steam. I think it's still perfectly viable in N gauge, but it seems one needs to be ready for failures and be prepared to send things back - the retailers have done what they should and have accepted faulty locos back. I agree - the detail in these models is lovely, and where there's sound it really brings it to life :)
Hi Jonathan....I had a Dapol Pannier Tank 2S-007-016 (8767), and Class 38xx locos. One kept just stopping like you said and the class 38XX was so noisy DCC supplies recognised it but couldn't rectify it. Both class 121 DMU's I had from Dapol also had problems and were replaced by the dealer. I no longer purchase Dapol locos because they are just not reliable.
Hi Martyn, thanks for letting me know how it's been for you - a shame you also got the unreliability on the 121s. I don't blame you for giving up on them altogether - it's very disheartening when they arrive and don't work well enough.
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Yes, Dapol have not delivered on the tender driven steam loco. I returned to the hobby during lockdown and retrieved my layout from the loft. After 20 years of storage 9 out of ten locos worked (all Farish bar 1 Minitrix.) I'm certain that Dapol did not exist when I first started in the hobby, so some new locomotives were available. I bought the following Dapol locos.1) A Schools class - the first model did not move and the replacement stopped after two days, with the tender/loco cable stuck in a point turnout (Dapol told me that that doesn't usually happen so soon) - it was sent for repair, still sluggish , I paid for it to be serviced (even though in warranty); then after an article in N Gauge Society article the cable was enhanced but is still sluggish. 2) A 38xx class - very sluggish and jerky - sold on at a loss. 3) A class 52 - repaired by Dapol, still sluggish so now being repaired elsewhere. I believe that all 3 locos were at the repairers for longer that I have been able to run them. The good news! (according to the N gauge forum) is that Dapol have now moved new models to loco driven - but I will not be buying any more Dapol. regards
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience of the Dapol locos. You're the first to mention the connections getting caught on points, so that's another one to add to the list of issues that have arisen. I can see why you'd give up - from what you described you've invested a lot in trying to get them to work. It would be great if Dapol have indeed switched to a different approach - that would give greater hope of improvements.
My experience of Dapol N Gauge : My Silver King A4 has soft connecting rods and the noisiest motor on planet earth but my gosh is it beautiful to look at, 52 Western Consort had a lighting failure, Autotank 1466 became quite unbalanced fairly quickly, 4500 baby Prairie has soft connecting rods which split on the middle wheels and is second radius only, Terrier 32670 had a loose motor retaining bracket and the 5700 Pannier is still ok but a little wobbly.
We did have a 9F for the Midford exhibition layout but the connecting rods locked up and exploded sideways so we stick to the old Minitrix examples.
Hi, thanks for your comment - another person who's experienced a catalogue of issues with the locos. I think my 9F is in the post back to me now, so I'll be keeping a close eye on its coupling rods after it's back.
You are welcome. Lovely looking locos but they are so fragile. I don't know why GF never made a 9F ?
@@willowsjunction7989 I agree....it is a shame they didn't. They planned to and 9F models appeared in their catalogue, but they never made it to production.
I have a large number of N gauge locos and have had almost zero failures with Graham Farish steam or diesel locos (although all my GF locos come from the Bachmann era rather than the original GF era). My Dapol locos are a mixed bag. The Panniers and M7 locos have been reliable and good runners. About 50% of the tender locos have been good, 25% are useable but I wouldn't described them as the best and 25% should have been returned as not fit for purpose. Dapol diesels are generally much better although one Hymek became unusable about 6 months after being bought.
There seem to be a variety of reasons for poor running. I have two Q1 0-6-0 locos. One was good from the box and the other kept derailing at points and on the transition to curves. Removing the brake rigging solved the problem. This was also an issue with a 38xx so I have removed brake rigging from all the Dapol locos ( I can't see it at normal distance anyway!). I had a Grange which regularly derailed and it turned out that one of the bogie wheels was clearly misgauged. Pushing the wheels to give a better aligned back to back measurement cured that problem. My Hall just won't work at all and another 38xx is noisy and jerky and rarely gets used. My Schools class is excellent.
I have taken the decision not to buy any more Dapol locos with the shaft drive. Just not worth the hassle.
Hi John, thanks for sharing your experience - it seems to broadly match mine on the Dapol locos, though from the experiences that others have shared I wonder if it might just be random that the issues for you and I have been weighed towards the tender locos. I don't have much from Graham Farish but have a sound-fitted 4F overdue on order, so we'll see how that works.
I'm a bit late here. My Grandad bought a Dapol Britannia (William Shakespeare?) Years ago, it never ran properly but for some reason he never returned it. One day the motion rods jammed up and bent. My Grandad is no longer with us but the loco is sat in its box in my garage, and its a shame as irs a great looking loco but I feel begrudged getting it repaired incase it just breaks again! I'm sure he did have an A3 he sent back. I'm actually holding off placing a preorder for an A4 Mallard from them as I don't want the hassle of returning it all the time but they look stunning!
By comparison, my Dapol class 67 is one of my best runners. Their XC Voyager is noisy but works, and their 156 DMU is much the same. Farish on the other hand I've had very few issues with....
Hi Steven, thanks for sharing your and your dad's experiences - the video may be nearly a year old, but it's still useful to know what it's been like for other people. Besides the more recent T gauge ones this video still gets the most views on my channel, which I think reflects what people are experiencing and how frustrated it makes them. I too would like one of the A4s (the shiny blue Sir Nigel Gresley), but have avoided it because of what I've experienced. I'm not sure whether or not I'd have gone all-in on the hobby if I'd known it was like this, but I'm too far in now, and still get enough successful runners for enjoyment :)
I have had trouble with two Granges, both of which I eventually fixed myself, but my three Halls run well. One has a noisy motor because it touches the tender body. Body off it is quiet. So I'll grind away where it touches and it should be cured.
However, Dapol tank engines have been a disaster. 3x 14xx. All duds. 3x small Prairies. All duds. 4x 57xx Panniers. All duds. My Schools and 9F are not smooth except when using a feedback controller. I am not going to convert to DCC. Like you I have sent some of them back for repair but they invariably don't come back any better. As I live in Oregon USA it is expensive to send them back and I've ceased bothering.
My comparison my BachFar tank and tender engines all run beautifully.
Hi James, thanks for that - I forgot about my own 14xx loco - that was one of the first N gauge locos I bought… and the first was a dud! Its replacement has been perfect though. It sounds like you've had a particularly bad time of it, and persisted a long time, particularly considering the postage distance. Although my misfortune has been with tender steam locos it's starting to sound like I've actually been relatively lucky overall because you and others have had issues with all sorts.
How interesting.. I gave the exact same dapol locos and all run fine, though the 9F had a broken wire from the tender to the loco which made it unreliable over insulfrog points.
I’ve had a lot more problems with farish locos!
Hi Nathan - I'm glad you haven't had many issues with yours, presumably a decent number overall do actually need to work for Dapol to have any hope of staying in business. Shame about your experience with the Farish ones - if one thing's for certain it seems that if someone buys a reasonable number of locos in N gauge they'll hit trouble before too long.
Hi Jonathan, not great quality on Dapol steam locos and your video backs it up!! I have a Dapol 9F which is OK but quite noisy but does run! My other 13 locos of 15 are all Graham Farish and these to me are much better build quality especially with the running gear! Great video! Cheers Gary
Hi Gary, thanks :) And thanks for sharing your experience of N gauge steam locos - hopefully your replacement A4 will be OK!
I too haven’t had great experience with Dapol n gauge. Having had two with the cardan shaft motor I don’t buy tender locos from them anymore. My Hall does have an improved cardan aghast at least so doesn’t pop out like the manor does as often. But I’ve also had tank engines from them that never seem to run well either.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience. Just today the announcement about new A3 and A4s went out, but since it was just another batch of the existing design I decided to pass. On the other hand a few weeks ago I found out the Bulleid light pacifics will be a "next generation" steam loco from Dapol, with the motor in the main body, so I've put one of those on order (I'm quite late-in, so probably won't be very early to receive one once they start arriving!) and look forward to seeing if that brings about a decent change in reliability. We'll see!
Supervisor 👍 🤝
My A4 runs well but a little noisy, pulls fantastic. Recently had issues with Hymek now on no3 waiting to arrive. and class 27 on number 2 all good now.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Your experience adds to the feeling that issues are across the board with loco types. Do you have to get yours posted from the UK? As it happens my latest loco is a Dapol Class 27, I had to tweak the position of one chain hook to allow the bogey at that end to turn enough, but otherwise it runs like a dream. So random!
@@endoorrailway One issue with a farish loco, DMU and steamers all run well as long as you keep fluff out and keep track and wheels clean. I think with all model railways it's key to be able to under take basic maintenance. Cheers
I have a Dapol 9F. I'm not sure how old it is, but it has the cardan drive from the tender into the main body. I had trouble getting it to run at low speeds and stuttering at high speeds. I dismantled it enough to clean the pickups and polished all the wheels but it didn't make much difference. I had all but given up on it until I polished the wheels again and somehow it works. The cardan drive gets stuck sometimes but it otherwise works beautifully. I have two 57xx panier tanks that have mysteriously stopped working and they were jerky before. So it's all still a mystery.
Hi Alex, sounds like you're quite handy on maintenance! I hope that mine will keep going for a while now, but it won't be long until it's out of The Model Centre warranty so I fear I'll have to do similar fixes at some point. Thanks for sharing your experience.
@@endoorrailway I've just come back into this hobby for the first time since I was a child, and I've certainly learnt fast in miniature electronics and mechanics. However I still only have a 50% success rate in repairs. I've used a LP Rails to repair my Farish locos where I came unstuck.
I have a 7mt 70004 Shakespeare from dapol it is a very temperamental runner and refused to move for a while my local model shop repaired it and it seams to work better but still jerks. My A3 grande parade is extremely loud but runs ok but not perfect. On the other hand I have a new A4 silver king and that runs really well and quiet for a dapol 😂.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience, particularly with the same models - sounds like Dapol are capable of occasionally making a good one!
I'm extremely sorry to see this.... I really wanted to get a 7MT and "Flying Scotsman" to run on my GWML based modern image layout...I'm not sure i'll risk it anymore sadly.....
Hi Mark, thanks for commenting. I think if I'd have known the extent of the issues I'd have been far more wary too, but I must admit that the retailers I've used - Hattons, Rails of Sheffield and The Model Centre - have all been very straightforward about returns. Personally I've just got a bit fed up of waiting for months and months with pre-orders and then being disappointed and having to return them, multiple times in the case of the A1 and 9F. But if you'd really like the locos it might be worth a go and seeing if you get lucky, but I'd just recommend being ready to need to return them, and I think it's essential that you're able to test them soon after buying. I've also learned to keep hold of the boxes and bubble wrap they're posted in!
@@endoorrailway thanks will do. Good luck. I've just subscribed. Always great to find new N gaugers !!!
Hi Steve, thanks for sharing your experience. Someone else has mentioned those connecting cables too, and you may have added a couple of new things to the list - there just seem to be so many areas where these models can, and do, go wrong. Here's hoping the rumour of a change in approach by Dapol is both true and successful.
Not just tender locos. I had a Dapol GWR saddle tank and it ran smoothly in forwards but jammed up in reverse. - Sent it off for repair but before the dealer returned it I asked for and had my money back.
Thanks for sharing your experience - although it seems to have been more concentrated into tender locos for me, from what quite a few people have commented on this it does seem to be a much broader quality issue, sadly.
Irony of this : I've bough a Dapol 9F because the OO version by Hornby has a weak motor, and a N Dapol Britannia because the OO model from Hornby is outdated... Yes, I'm modelling both scales for UK models. It's not reassuring for me, I had not run my two Dapols long enough to have problems with them. The run-in with 1/2 an hour in each direction was fine for mine, and I hope it would not worsen.
On the other hand, my Dapol class 35 and 22, and Grafar class 03, runs fine. The sole issue I had to this day is an EFE clayton with a faulty motor. I'll check my 9F and 7MT more closely by now...
Hi Olivier, thanks for commenting with your experience. I'm actually really glad to hear that someone has had very few problems with their N gauge locos - it shows it's possible! Let's hope they stay good for you - most of mine that have been troublesome have been bad in some way from the start - I think my only exception to that is the 9F.
Farish are streets ahead of Dapol in terms of running quality regarding N gauge steam
I recently purchased a Dapol Schools Class “Brighton”, wobbled like hell straight out of the box. After about an hour of head scratching and close scrutiny from various angles while it was running I noticed an iffy traction tyre on the left hand side. On closer inspection the tyre seemed baggy, either too big or over stretched in fitting, I switched the offending tyre for one of the spares that came with the loco and now it runs like a burglar.
Hi, thanks for your comment - that's interesting, I'd never thought of checking something like that, though don't fancy the idea of taking the motion apart (or rather putting it back together afterwards!) to get at the wheel to change a tyre. It's very useful to know what causes the various issues though, thanks.
@@endoorrailway , yeah I’m not going to lie, it was a real pain to put it all back together, there’s the tiniest of washers between the crank and the wheel that I was scared to death of dropping and losing 😬
I have two dapol N class 22s and while they both work, one is almost twice the speed of the other. The chassis mounted pickups are held on by a small pressed plastic bolt too so now one broke it has to be superglued back on, not really very disassemble maintenance friendly...
Thanks for the comment - I hadn't really considered easy of maintenance, but that's a good point - the manuals say that maintenance is needed, so really it ought to be designed for that to be done reasonably easily. Glad to hear your locos work, even if it's with different characteristics!
I know nothing about N gauge as I am a 00 modeler, but I invested a lot of money in Dapol signals for my model layout (Bungay Station), and I suffered a 35% failure rating of Dapol signals. I contacted Dapol, and I have to say I found their customer care dreadful! Since then I've refused to buy a new Dapol products, and my signals as they fail have been rebuilt by me with conventional point motors, and the only 00 things I still like from dapol are the wagons they make with the tooling the inherited off Wrenn, some of which is 60+ years old, being from the late Hornby Dublo area.
If I had a 00 loco that ran like the locos you showed us there, I wouldnt be keeping it for long if I couldnt solve the issue.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience of Dapol in OO - I must admit I just assumed they'd be better with more room to work with, and having to compete with Hornby and others, but it seems that assumption might not be right! I've actually bought a motorised Dapol signal but it's waiting for something else in the order to come into stock before being sent… perhaps I'd best set my expectation low.
@@endoorrailway the signals worked lovely when first installed. I had one fail 3rd running session, and some that failed a few months later.
@@James_Rivett I installed 2 Dapol N Gauge signals, they worked well, but were very noisy, so a large hole was cut in the baseboard and the signal lower section was fitted inside some sponge pipe lagging, which helped a lot but still some noise.
@@alanwhite6293 I cant say I noticed the noise... but I am on the deaf side lol. I just think their too complicated for their own good and hence they fail too quickly.
Dapol tender locos I've been having much trouble with them I took many of mine back for a refund but kept one the Mallard for the looks as it's my favourite loco
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience - needing to return them does seem to be common. I do think they all look fantastic though - such a shame they're looks aren't matched by their running.
Is the problem just with tender drive locos? My Pannier tank loco runs perfectly well forwards and locks up in reverse. Currently with Dapol for repair..... I'll wait and see if there is improvement, or not
Hi Phil, from the various comments on the video (and from a rake of JHA wagons I got on Friday) I think there are problems with Dapol running quality in general, it seems it just happens that the issues with my locos were concentrated on the tender ones. For example, my pannier tank generally works very well, it just doesn't like insulfrog points - I hope yours comes back in good working order.
I bought 2 new N Dapol steam tender locos last year and both were terrible nosiy runners. I sold them and would never buy a steam loco from them again. Haven't had any issues with diesel dapol however.
Thanks for sharing your experience of it - that seems to mirror mine! Whilst the retailers are still good about returns I'll still try a new one occasionally, but my confidence in them working is low.
I've only had problems with dapol. I have Farish, rapido, kato and dapol.
My dapol B1 gave, and still gives problems. Stopping and starting, pausing, just a jumpy runner. I had an A4 that also gave me trouble. The driveshaft comes out way too easily imo.
My other steam models are fine, i even started getting dcc sound ones as my confidence in the other companies grew.
Thanks for sharing that - it seems to fit the general experience, though it sounds like you've been a little luckier with Graham Farish and Rapido then some other people have been. A few minutes ago I was reading today's updates on Dapol's GWR Mogul, and it doesn't look like that's got a shaft from the tender to loco, so I've got my fingers crossed for that model being generally better quality!
@@endoorrailway I got a sound rapido from rails that was dead. I sent it back and the replacement is unreal. It's my 2nd one. I've got a great vid of it crawling on power 1!!
Is on UA-cam ''Fintona Junction'.
You could be right, I've been fairly lucky although I am very careful if buying off ebay etc
I only deal with dealers that accept returns.
@@shteviemac8310 That's an impressive crawl - it's like the Graham Farish Midland 4F I've got. Yes same here - I avoid marketplaces.
If you saw the shelves of 2nds and faulty locos at dapol you would never buy from them again. I have seen the amount... And a good test is to separate the loco from the tender. Test the free movement of the loco ,test for any drag/binding. If good then it basically the motor. The motors take 5 minutes to change ,costing about £25 delivered. Far cheaper than wasting the money on postage. You shouldn't have to do all this but I've found its the best option these days. Warranties don't mean anything these days..
Thanks for the insight and advice. Overall that's a bit concerning - it makes you wonder how viable their business is if they have to waste so much - sounds like they do actually know about the problem though.
@@endoorrailway I used the buy the 2nds for £25 each a few years back.
I know I’m very late here but I’ve had very similar issues, my dapol A3 The White Knight (which is pretty much the same as the A1) also has a noticeable wobble. My dapol pitchford hall burnt out completely. None of my farish locos have had any problems. I think dapol has a clear quality issue so I think I’ll be staying away from them for a while
Hi, it takes years for new locos to be released, so in that context you're not late at all :) Thanks for sharing your experience too, adding to the overall picture. This week I pre-ordered a Dapol "Battle of Britain" class, which is advertised as a next-generation design approach for Dapol, so it'll be very interesting to see how those perform. I'm not convinced that a new mechanical approach will fix the company's attitude to quality control, but hopefully if the new mechanisms are inherently more reliable then it'll lead to fewer issues. We'll see!
I have a Dapol A1, and while it does run fine, I find reliable electrical pickups seem to be my issue.
You'd think having 10 wheels of electrical pick up would be fine.
Thanks for your comment. Yes I've thought that too on occasion when I've seen some of the locos jerk at points, but still have plenty of wheels still on plain track.
Overall, Dapol models are delicate, but generally can run very well. Some can need adjustment to do so.
In terms of the 9F - the most recent model is actually a part re-tool - relatively little of the 2008 mechanics are still in it - the wheels have been re-tooled (twice!) and the tender pickups, loco pickups and motor have all changed since then. Common 9F problems are tight rivets or valve gear that can snap the central rank pins, and wobbles from the traction tyres on most recent model.
A4 - I'm afraid here, while the loose crank pin is on Dapol, the breakage of the Smith-Stone speedo drive representation is on you I'm afraid- you attached it in the wrong orientation relative to the wheel (the end of the black cable representation should be over the centre of the axle, so this basically does not move when in motion). Spare part is easy to get though - this late crest loco should have it, though most of them (early crest or LNER) should not have them as they were only fitted in reality in late 1950s.
Britannias are generally fairly reliable, though I've not had one from the most recent batch, which have a revised tender tooling to represent the Scottish large tendered locos.
Your A1's wobble is from wonky tyres - this can be common, particularly if they get oil on them (they can warp, stretch and expand).
Hi, thank you for all of that information - it seems the year of the main tooling might not be that much of a factor then, given how much has changed in the 9F.
Thanks for the tip about the A4 speedo drive - I looked at some pictures to try and see how it should go but wasn't certain, it's good to know how it should go on. Maybe I'll try to find a replacement at some point.
You're not the only one to suggest tyres as the cause of wobble, but motion disassembly/reassembly doesn't look like an easy task! As evidenced by my attempt on the A4, it's easy for an inexperienced person to get something wrong.
Thanks for the pointers though - the way things are looking from the various responses here it seems these locomotives are, on the whole, *Almost* Ready to Run, so it may well be a case of learn to fix it or else don't have it.
I have slope tanks by Dapol. they run well, I had a class 56.. Ran Amazing.. All Tender Locos around 6 to date I have got rid of, I have one left and that is shite too. Will Never buy another Dapol tender Loco. Stick with Farish.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience with the loco types - it sounds sadly familiar.
Hi . My son has Hornsby trains , tracks , carages. They are about 50 years old. What would be the best auction would he contact for selling it all . Thanks. X
Hi Dorothy, I've never looked into selling model train things, so have no experience from which to advise I'm afraid. I've bought some more recent things from eBay, but that's not the same.
Did you correct the A4 speedo location? The part which rotates should be at near dead centre.
Interesting on the Scotsman. I had an OO Class 52, and whilst simply running in 30-40 minutes about half throttle each way, it failed, PCB died.
I'd just purchased off a reputable supplier on Ebay, but wasn't a registered and recognised Dapol dealer, so they would assist.
Seller accepted the return with full refund, and simply broke for parts, which is sad.
Al.
Hi Al,
Thanks for your comment and the tip - I think I did try it in that position (though didn't film it) and it flopped back down, so perhaps there was something else that needed tightening. But no, it's snapped and I haven't looked for a replacement part - I might keep my eye out for a spare, but at the moment I don't intend to look for one specifically.
PCB failure whilst running in - that sounds quite unlucky, sorry to hear about that, but I'm glad you got your refund. I feel a bit sorry for that seller though. Not quite the "no quibbles" fix policy that Dapol give with each loco, though I guess that applies to end users rather than sellers.
@@endoorrailway The speedo cables are fragile enough on Hornby locomotives. The centres being plastic covered by a 'metal hoop' with the flange is a bonus in one respect - you can 'fine tune' the location to centre it better than factory (if you're lucky!).
Yeah, pity the seller - a good, genuine 'shop' on Ebay who insisted on no problems - I just felt bad the perfectly good - apart from PCB - locomotive had to be broken up just for him to make money on it - the way it is I suppose.
Quite lucky as one thing Dapol do well is they do have a good spares availability - something Hornby don't do.
Bachmann are great in this respect 'though, and Jenni is superb in her help.
Strangely I've just made a video about the very same problems. The quality control is poor, the drive shaft is a very bad idea, the wheel flanges are very shallow and the wheel spacing is dubious. Cheers.
It looks like your video is really resonating with people - lots of views quickly! Sadly I'm no longer surprised, unlike when I made this video a year ago, and have stayed clear of new old-tool Dapol steam tender locos. Personally I wouldn't want the flanges any bigger though - as shallow as they are they're still over-scale, but I can just about bear it, unlike with the old Minitrix renditions. But ultimately the model staying on the rails is more important than ultra-fine detail - that Grange of yours was ridiculously poor on that front :(
@@endoorrailway Staying on is a must. I had a schools and that derailed. I bought a dapol train pack and that derails. I thought it was my track but Graham Farish and Minitrix says it isn't. I wish I understood how youtube works as I would like those kind of views on my golf channel.
Also I should mention that only one of my two 28xx's runs well enough to be on the layout. The other is a jerky basket case in spite of hours of investigation and running in. Very poor. I would happily pay much more, maybe double, for locomotives that actually worked as they should. In the case of the tank engines, preferably with diecast bodies so they have enough weight to actually pull something appropriate long.
Ah, shame about the 28xx - I might actually be tempted to try one of those if another batch is made - it would look great on a long freight. Whilst I do feel done with Dapol re-runs I could be tempted to try luck on GWR locos. I think I'm with you to a point on the price if you could be far more confident that they'd work - I do wonder if Dapol are doing themselves out of business. But if most people will pay the current prices and fix the locos themselves, then perhaps Dapol have a good business model! However, on the other hand several here have also said that they've given up because of the issues.
Yes - on Chris's N Gauge Bognor Regis he showed an old, tiny, Minitrix tanker pull a long train up an incline with no trouble, so it's possible. Welsh Valleys coal trains were long heavy trains, hauled by tank engines, so it would definitely be nice to be able to model that. I was also thinking the other day that a scale 800-metre container train would be more than 5 metres long in N gauge, but I doubt that either a Dapol or Farish Class 66 would cope with that.
On curves my A3 Flying Scotsman (preserved) just stops moving on curves. The wheels are turning but it’s just not moving. And that was a 2023 model. £159.99
Ouch, that sounds like a new kind of issue, sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing your experience of these locos. I passed-up the opportunity to buy any of the 2023 announcements - I really like the look of a BR express blue A4, but there was no mention of new tooling, so I didn't have confidence that there wouldn't be problems.
It could just be because the curves are too tight. It was on a small loop of track which was on a table. I am working towards an n gauge railway although I am stuck on a 009 layout.
P.s I have a Graham Farish A3 and that works like a charm but It doesn't have much detail so I've come to selling it.
Sounds like the curves are too tight, not a fault of the engine. Try larger radius curves, Kato make half a dozen different radiuses, and they list how small each engine will go.
@@Botstudios1691
One of the “challenges” of n gauge steam being how delicate the motion has to be to look reasonably realistic, hence any mishandling, or even “shock” during transit ( post ) has a high chance to damage.
It is also widely accepted that European models are more reliable, but they are also circa twice the price.
As for Dapol diesels, they are not as robust as GF, especially the electronics where having a loco with all the light functions working in my collection is becoming a rarity.
Hi Dougal,
The locos are pretty well packaged and I know that I take care when handling them, but who knows how much care is taken in their assembly. Yes the detail in 1:148 scale is tiny - it must be even more intricate in the European models at 1:160! Sorry to hear that you're getting failures in the diesels. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience :)
Problem is other manufacturers don't run into these issues. My Bachmann (US, not UK - for some reason there's a massive quality difference) USRA Light Mountain and KATO JNR D51 run very smoothly. Both have fine-detailed fully functional valve gear and drive rods, with the D51's being more detailed than that of my Dapol 7MT (which runs like hot garbage - literally). So if it is a matter of bent rods and valve gear it's because the metal Dapol's using is too soft.
It's a shame, really. That Dapol 7MT is by far one of the strongest pulling N-scale locomotives I've run, with its overall tractive effort giving my Bachmann (again, US) SD45s a run for their money (an important factor when you run on a club layout with 3.5% grades on the main). But that's of no use when the thing is constantly threatening to catch fire even on the flat sections when running light.
@@VestedUTuber yes that does go to show what can be done - thanks
Here or some tips when it comes to Dapol locomotives:
Your first major mistake is using that awful Dapol Oil to lubricate your locomotives, its caused more running problems to peoples locomotives than I can remember. Only ever use grease on plastic gears, oil courses them to split over time what not a lot of people relies.
Secondly make sure your using the correct type of controller, NOT all controllers or suitable for N Gauge locomotives. The biggest give away with this is locomotives getting very hot, or erratic running at slow speeds.
Third, if your locomotives have been in long time store re lubricate and run in again. Seen many people not do this and their locomotive has suffered a split gear.
Hi,
Thanks for sharing your tips!
Most of the locos come pre-lubricated and only need re-lubricating after a certain amount of time or mileage (according to the instructions), so most of my locos that were rubbish from brand new can't have been affected by that oil. It's pretty annoying that the Dapol oil that's specifically for lubricating locos isn't good for them!
My DCC controller is certainly ok for N gauge, but I don't know about the DC one - it claims to deliver smooth current and its voltage is within what N gauge needs, so should be ok.
Your tips will be useful for keeping my good locos running well in the long-term, thanks :)
I was wondering wether to model n gauge with both steam and diesel, because I'm fascinated with the idea of making a small world in a small space, but I would have to start drom scratch.
I will just stick to 00 if n gauge locos have this many problems...
I think you'd probably be ok on the diesel front in N, but I've found that it takes a fair bit of determination with the steam locos! If you did decide to go for it at least you've seen how it can go for people, so you'll know what could be ahead
@@endoorrailway I decided to stick to 00/H0, because I already had a small collection. Didnt really feel the need to start over
I model in OO, not N, but am generally very cagey about the quality and reliability of much modern rtr British stock. They look beautiful, with all their delicate detail, but seem to have an awful lot of potential faults. Earlier this week I bought a Hornby T9 second hand and, talking to another Southern modeller the very next day was warned - he'd bought two, only to have both chassis fall apart from mazak fatigue. That's not what you want to hear! There seem to be a good many other horror stories of that sort floating about. Being made in China, with poor / non existent quality control may have a lot to do with it. Where are Dapol made now?
Hi John, thanks for sharing your thoughts. A few other people have mentioned OO too, so it seems issues aren't confined to N gauge models. Shame about those Hornby T9s :( I'm not sure where Dapol make things, but I'm not convinced that location of manufacturing should be an issue - there are so many things we buy and use in day-to-day life that are made all over the world, and work well, so I think the manufacturers have the ability to put quality control processes in place, regardless of where bits are physically made - based on what we see it just feels like Dapol aren't doing well enough in that.
I think they need a chassis and motor upgrade by dapol really
Hi Tim, I'm hoping that the new Mogul expected in 2024 will benefit from that kind of thing. I think I'll generally take the chance on new tooling - modern-tooled diesels I've had by Dapol have been much nicer.
I havnt had much luck with dapol steam locos havnt had a good one yet details great but mechanicals noisey and poor performance as for the diesels the lights stop working after very little running not good
That sounds like what I've come to learn is typical of the steam locos. I must admit I haven't had any lights stop working - sorry to hear you've had less success with that.
Quartering seems to be an issue along with the flexi drive shaft , the combination for the mechanism is not good .
Thanks for your comment. If the quartering is the offset between the motion on either side of the loco then I can see how that would need to be precisely aligned if the pistons were driving the wheels, but would it matter so much when the motor is driving via a cog on the axle? With the models it's the wheel driving the motion, rather than the other way around, though I guess if anything's a bit out of alignment it could cause resistance and sub-optimal running - I just don't know enough about the mechanics of how the motion works, but I do find it fascinating.
Don't know why dapol just do tender drives like bachman, I have a dapol A4 its very noisey but works ok.
I'm still keen to see what their "next generation" loco-drive West Country class ends up like. I'm glad your A4 works OK :)
You haven't been unlucky many people experience issues with dapols Tender drive, It's like they try to copy the old Bachmann n scale 4-4-0 technique, Bachmann was making loco drive 0-4-0s and 0-6-0s in the 1980s and to Today (Updated motors), Sams Trains and others had derails and problems
Thank you - yes I've learned a lot in the last year-or-so, largely from responses like yours, and as I've found and followed more channels on UA-cam it's become clear just how widespread the issues are. When Sam's Trains got the Britannia I had a feeling I knew how that would go! Thanks for you comment.
My only Dapol is an Ivatt 2-6-2. It was second hand but not cheap but is very pretty. The motor was a load of junk, so I fitted a coreless. When I took the motor out and tested it, needs a large starting current, races away and then settles down just like the loco did, it's a junk motor. Now it's far better and usable at scale speeds despite it's poor gear ratio. It though, rock and rolls? Dapol seem to have a missed the fact that the wheels need to be concentric on their axles? Your Scotsman is terrible? It runs OK ish now, but my first and last Dapol. I know there are detail compromises, but my peco jubilee was 43 in May, my two 9fs are 50? They just work and will pull anything.
Hi,
Thanks for sharing your experience with your Dapol loco - that motor sounds a lot like a few of the locos I had issues with. Yes that Scotsman was useless - I'm hoping that there'll be a proper new tool version in the next few years with a much better system, as I'd still like to have an A1 or A3. I think you're right - compromise can't be used as an overall excuse - there are examples around of good runners that also have great detail - I suspect it boils down to doing quality control properly. I'm glad you managed to get the Ivatt working well in the end, though sounds like it takes some advanced modification skills!
@@endoorrailway Hi and thanks. The re-motor on the Ivatt was an OK job, I got it from Tramfabriek, the 45xx kit fits? I've done two farish 8fs as well, they need to be glued in, but it's not that bad to do. Nothing really wrong with them but they got really hot so went coreless. I got a farish 2mt 260 on a whim, then another, then a 4f, and they run like my Dads old watch, perfect. Some of the rock and roll can be from rubbish traction tyres. The 2-6-2 doesn't have these and it rolls by 1/2 MM. That is not good, I am mainly O gauge and that would not be acceptable? The detail on them is superb, but the engineering, I am sorry, but I would send them straight back. QC. I have a Farish Scott, tender powered, and it's great and not played up? You need to keep up the vids. The massive attraction of very extremely detailed and pretty model vs it may not run and if it does it will be rubbish and then pack up soon after. Maybe someone should just be buying up Peco Jubilee tender power units for the future ;-)
Thanks, I intend to keep documenting what works or doesn't - I want to help create general awareness of what to expect - I was so surprised at how many issues there were, but thanks largely to the responses from people like you I've discovered it's very common. lol yes spare, reliable power units might be one way to go if you're comfortable fitting them, and buy the new locos with the expectation that you'll be needing to do a replacement.
@@endoorrailway I think you are bang on. What you are doing helps both the buy new and the 2nd user markets. What to expect etc. You kind of expect to work a little on something 30 or more years old. But brand new ... it should run and run well out of the box. Keep it up, because a fleet of bad runners can put off people from the hobby and that affects us all ultimately.
Shame as they are nice looking engines
Yes - I think all of the manufacturers manage to produce very nice looking models these days - it would be lovely if the running quality could match.
Dapol are only bothered in o and oo most of the time I have found the pcbs to be use less that don't help running dapol steam has always been a problem that's why there nqps was always more steam .
Hi Richard, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I guess all of the manufacturers will put less investment into smaller market areas, which I think is a commercial reality that can't be ignored, but I feel that if they do decide to produce something then they should do it with an effective level of quality control.
Sad indictment on that manufacturer.....do Bachmann & Kato suffer with this I wonder ?
Hi David, yes Dapol certainly aren't helping their own reputation. From the various comments it seems that Bachmann, in Graham Farish, have a better reputation - so far I've only got two tender steam locos from them myself, but both have been brilliant. Kato don't seem massively interested in British models - I've got a Class 800 of theirs - it runs well, is a good price and looks great, but I've had a duff Kato lights decoder and now also trouble with the lights at one end of the train (regardless of which decoder is in that end)... but one model isn't enough to form a conclusion. I get the impression from other videos that Kato has a good reputation for quality.
Dapol N gauge QA is simply not good enough. I’ve never had any problems with Graham Farish and will never buy another Dapol lok
Thanks for sharing your experience of it
I rate their diesels. But a tender driven steam loco is wrong on ever level.
Their diesels do seem to be more reliable. I don't mind the motor being in the tender, in the same way that I don't mind that they don't burn coal to produce steam to drive via the cylinders etc., i.e. they're models rather than real steam engines, but I do mind them not working and there being an obvious shaft going between the two parts!
Now on the 3rd return of a Dapol n gauge scotsman.. personally I'll never order dapol again ..terrible design and extremely unreliable. I have many farish diesel and locos. And never had any problems
The dapol scotman was a disaster right out of the box
Terrible idea to have a prop shift from the tender..even worse idea to have tiny wires going from the tender too the loco..which break pretty much every time you use it.
Now it's git the jitters too. I'm done.. never again waste of money totally!!
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience too - sorry it's been terrible as well. It's certainly _possible_ to get a working example, but the chances of getting one with something wrong are far, far too high.
After reading the comments on this post I know now I made a bad choice buying a dapol I wish I'd read these comments BEFORE I wasted money on dapol.
Learnt my lesson tho feel like I've been robbed with the absolute trash dapol have produced.
Lesson learnt..I'll never buy anything with that name Dapol..on it again..harsh? No I don't think so. Nonidea how the models ever pass quality control..I doubt there is one
I can't condemn their trash enough. As a fed up enthusiast I'll stick too Farish..the best!
I only chose a dapol loco as Farish didn't have the scotsman.
Be very very carefully when buying a Dapol read up alot first..the huge amount of negative comments in here alone proves to me I'm right...dapol= Trash. End of argument!!
Before I made this video I was baffled - I had such a high proportion of issues, but the channels I was regularly watching never mentioned this degree of trouble - it didn't add up. Over time you can see from the response to this video that there are plenty of people suffering the same issues, and it's also stubbornly remained my most-watched and most-commented-upon video so far, even though it's not the main topic of this channel. It's such a shame that it's like this - I really hope Dapol end up with something more reliable in the "next gen" approach, they're certainly able to make great _looking_ models.
When you compare Dapol and Farish motors with Kato motors it's just plain embarrassing!
Hi Jeffrey, I guess Kato are showing what's possible - it would be good if the others could follow the example.
The problem is always with the general public.
Nobody's forcing you to buy.
Hi, thanks for sharing your opinion. The problem does indeed end up with the general public - those paying for the product. It's a transaction: the manufacturer presents a "ready to run" product and blurb about how great it is, and charges a high price for it. I don't feel that what I, or others, are ending up with is what's advertised. Dapol has the ability to improve its quality control - it's not the only company in the world that makes intricate products.
You're not allowed to complain about factory production in 2023.
You can buy hand built products in 2023.
To get a perfect product from a factory, you buy in multiple quantities.
Take responsibility for your lazy lifestyle and step away from the camera.
You're buying your SET of trains and you've chosen to never buy enough quantity and you refuse to pay for the professional expert to build you the trains.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Many factory-produced products exist in the world, and have a very high "perfection" rate, achieved through what's called Quality Control by the manufacturer. It's not a new concept. Customers don't buy multiple products to make up for poor quality control.
I'm only interested in this hobby, and please take note of that - hobby - if there are reasonable ready-to-run locomotives available, and that's certainly what Dapol present. No mention from them that you might need to buy three of each.
Your attitude is appalling. Hes paying for a product - it should work. The only person who doesn’t have a right to complain here, is you.