God, man, your voice is just incredible and I can't get enough of the highly nuanced examinations of stories and tropes. You're intensely entertaining to listen to and have improved my own writing and enjoyment of others' writing so much.
I *_do_* remember this special. And whenever I think of it, I think of two scenes. 1. Where Mandy is forced to sing quickly to distract vampire Santa. 2. Where Mandy tries to stake the head vampire and he just comes back because she hit a vacuum cleaner he has in his coat.
One of the few things i like about this special is that Santa was voiced by Gilbert Gottfried may he rest in peace! and one of my favorite parts of the special is at the end when Sperg gets attacked by Mrs. Claus's Elfpire's seeing Sperg get what he deserves is always a joy to watch. lol Although one of the parts i didn't like was that Mandy didn't believe in Santa, and the reason why i hate that part is because it's stupid that Mandy thinks Santa isn't real when she's friends with the Grim Reaper of all people, in fact it always makes me think "News flash Mandy, if Grim says something is real then it's real."
@@personmcpersonstein3571 Yeah, even when they got to the North Pole Mandy still didn't believe until she saw Mrs. Claus i guess Mandy is one of those kinds of skeptics that don't believe until they see.
I always figured she didn’t believe because there’s no doubt what Mandy is(see the keeper of the reaper clip for the description)but even she can be self-conscious over the judgment of others. In a way I think she’s afraid of the idea of Santa, since he’s one of the few supernatural characters that represent the idea that there truly is good in the universe and what’s more he’s not afraid or even phased by Mandy.
This video coming out this far after Christmas probably is kneecapping it in the almighty algorithm, but this is beautifully written and I'm really glad you put it out. Literary analysis (even of non-literary storytelling) really hits harder when it comes from someone who clearly writes - and *edits* - for a living. Hopefully this comment helps in some way, thank you for this.
23 minutes in and I forgot this was about Billy & Mandy. Great shit, man. Wish more channels did stuff on allegory rather than just structural analysis. It feels like lit class again lol
Billy & Mandy had soo many hidden messages but was seen as either too Stupid and too Real/Dark that it got ignores by a lot. Thanks for giving it some credit where it deserved it. Btw, I'd love to hear your breakdown of Billy's relationship to his "son," Jeff. Lol
Bill and Mandy was one of the best cartoons ever and still holds up. Need to watch this special. Do you you remember underfist?! Soooo funny and absurd.
I really appreciate your videos, this truly is a substitute for basic writing classes, you're extremely precise in your explanation of concepts and examples, it inspires me to want to make my own videos analyzing film writing, although perhaps I should focus on my screenplay, and beginning a new one, haha. See ya in the next one
I'm sorry, 20m in and still no billy and Mandy. Lol, love the lead up to how much was needed to be explored to even start talking about the special. Keep up the good work.
Appreciate you addressing the “She has help scene” because I find it so hard to express why it’s so cringey without sounding sexist 😞 I would add that it’s so groan inducing not because we don’t recognize that there is a problem with female representation in fiction, but because we DO recognize it and are appalled that and this ham fisted pandering is how the chose to address that problem.
Of course I remember this nightmare. Somehow I can always remember the song Grim and the vampire sing. Also, the credits had that Ratt song which immediately as a kid I wanted to know what the hell it was. We didn't have Shazam then. Or a Google that held every song instantly.
I'd love someday to see a subversive narrative which takes a villain who has done iredeemable things and shows you their backstory, and baits you into thinking you're getting the standard sob story that somehow redeems the character and makes them out to be a regular person with a single flimsy misconception that is making them bad, and the twist is much darker, showing that the villain's backstory did not give them some asinine motive that conveniently serves the plot, but instead stunted their development into a genuinely selfish and evil person who lacks the foundation to understand human behavior. But in the very core of their experiences are terrifying traumatic memories from when they were innocent, and could have become a better person. Honestly I was hoping for that from griffith from berserk, but...well you know
The real deconstruction was those lovable ponies and the nasty fight they put up with grim and Mandy. Jokes aside. It was a fun take on Christmas just like grandma got run over by a reindeer which basically showed how commercialism affected a small town to the bigger city and even rich guys like bucks can be kind deep down while the cousin was greedy before getting money.
I remember this I loved that special episode 😂 it’s like a late night memory where I can remember like pieces and the charcater designs but not much more.
Id argue the infinity war "girl power" scene was worse that you gave it credit for, Because I know a lot of people who do recognise the problems with representation etc within Hollywood still saw it as ham fisted, completely un-earned, needlessly preachy and (worst of all for me) completely immersion breaking, Noting takes you out of the suspension of disbelief and reminds you that you are watching a creation of another human being quite like the studio visibly self felating itself in the middle of the climatic action scene. Not only would it fail to convince anyone on the opposite side of the political issue, but its actively irritation and detrimental to the audience experience of this who do agree with you! Literally the worst of both worlds
I'm so glad I subscribed to you. You make great videos! I haven't seen this thing in years, and I remember it surprisingly well, but admit, I did not analyze it like this! Strange, because I love analyzing things, but it's been like 20 years since I've seen it, so maybe I should go and do that again. Thanks for making such an awesome video! Definitely sharing it with my friends!
While they're excellent movies. I don't see how Knives Out or Glass Onion were subversive. Rian Johnson used every Agatha Christie trope he knew. Then the murderer turned out to be the person we all thought it was.
Good video, as usual, but the title seems limited compared to the various shows and examples presented. it could be something like a study in Expectation and Subversion. Thanks.
Angry comment But first Billy and Mandy Save Christmas is really good and You are a skilled essayist. The main objections Storytellers almost never shape society. Storytellers reflect society. By meaningful refection they can assist in changing societies. A Storyteller who tries to do more than reflection will almost always fail. Billy and Mandy Save Christmas is a satire. Satire complements the main narratives and tropes of a culture. A culture without satire is incomplete. Therefore Satire has its own tropes. With one exception they didn’t subvert any genre typical trope. To misidentify the antagonist is a satirical trope. For the antagonist to be a misunderstood normal guy is a satirical trope. The only trope that was subverted (which you didn’t pick up) is that usually the hero (Mandy) resolves the conflict by non heroic means. The subversion was that she didn’t contribute to the resolution in a significant way. Mrs. Claus isn’t a Damsel in distress. A Damsel in distress needs to lack agency and competence. She displays agency in almost every scene, usually by controlling the interaction, which is especially on the nose in her first scene. Also she displays competence by locking up Mr. Claus and organizing the present production. Another thing to highlight, portraying Mrs. Claus as narcissistic when she takes charge of Billy, skillfully foreshadows the villain twist. Kudos.
Shere Khan is ALMOST as racist as his author Rudyard Kipling but yes I agree. Actually woke and progressive works have nuance, self-awareness and genuine honesty that guides the exaggeration of satire. It's why many of us Black people resonate so well with seasons 1- 3 of Boondocks. No Aaron McGruder means no season 4 for me tho.
Ya that all women avengers scene in endgame was dumb and I got called sexist for saying so… even tho they have a much better version of the same scene in infinity war.
This single video has more statements I disagree with than the entire rest of your channel combined. It's downright impressive. That said, it's about as fair as I could hope for from a video I so strongly disagree with. I don't have the energy to detail every disagreement I have. I'd be here for hours. Most of the disagreement I have is a matter of framing and not validity, which only makes the thought of going through it all more daunting.
about the End Game 's scene i felt offended (i'm a male by the way). I respect to enjoy all the female characters of the scene and force them in one frame to shine transmited to me the message that "any of them can shine while a male character is alongside them", which is Fucking offensive when i remind you all that at least i like most of that characters and i thing that they are more than capable to shine while sharing screen with any male character
The best part is due to the degradation of how our society has gone, this type of subtle genius is no longer possible. The TikTok generation has no capacity for subtext and the methods of persuasion used until the mid-2000s. And this is why my cartoons were better…
It's so weird to see your face. I like it, but it's always so hard to accept that the face and voice belong together when I only heard the voice first.
This is an unrelated comment to the video but do you watch Vox Machina? Specifically season 2 episode 1, was insane! After a long time I am afraid of dragons again.
@@Mr.Beauregarde you just said all the buzzwords without giving any specific details and none of it made any sense at all. What specifically is the issue, subverting tiring cliches? Making a commentary on women in society? Not getting to the actual show which is a valid complaint? What??
The funniest scene was grim and the head vampire instantly freezing. Had me laughing so hard due to how perfect that joke was.
God, man, your voice is just incredible and I can't get enough of the highly nuanced examinations of stories and tropes. You're intensely entertaining to listen to and have improved my own writing and enjoyment of others' writing so much.
I *_do_* remember this special. And whenever I think of it, I think of two scenes.
1. Where Mandy is forced to sing quickly to distract vampire Santa.
2. Where Mandy tries to stake the head vampire and he just comes back because she hit a vacuum cleaner he has in his coat.
One of the few things i like about this special is that Santa was voiced by Gilbert Gottfried may he rest in peace! and one of my favorite parts of the special is at the end when Sperg gets attacked by Mrs. Claus's Elfpire's seeing Sperg get what he deserves is always a joy to watch. lol
Although one of the parts i didn't like was that Mandy didn't believe in Santa, and the reason why i hate that part is because it's stupid that Mandy thinks Santa isn't real when she's friends with the Grim Reaper of all people, in fact it always makes me think "News flash Mandy, if Grim says something is real then it's real."
Yeah. Grim tells her he KNOWS THE GUY PERSONALLY and she still casts doubt?
@@personmcpersonstein3571 Yeah, even when they got to the North Pole Mandy still didn't believe until she saw Mrs. Claus i guess Mandy is one of those kinds of skeptics that don't believe until they see.
I always figured she didn’t believe because there’s no doubt what Mandy is(see the keeper of the reaper clip for the description)but even she can be self-conscious over the judgment of others.
In a way I think she’s afraid of the idea of Santa, since he’s one of the few supernatural characters that represent the idea that there truly is good in the universe and what’s more he’s not afraid or even phased by Mandy.
This video coming out this far after Christmas probably is kneecapping it in the almighty algorithm, but this is beautifully written and I'm really glad you put it out.
Literary analysis (even of non-literary storytelling) really hits harder when it comes from someone who clearly writes - and *edits* - for a living.
Hopefully this comment helps in some way, thank you for this.
You're a true scholar and gentleman, and I'm glad it's not just me with analyzing different writing practices when I'm watching shows and movies lol
I made my family watch this special on Christmas. It really is iconic
23 minutes in and I forgot this was about Billy & Mandy. Great shit, man. Wish more channels did stuff on allegory rather than just structural analysis. It feels like lit class again lol
This is the most intelligent anyone's ever sounded when talking about Billy and Mandy.
Billy & Mandy had soo many hidden messages but was seen as either too Stupid and too Real/Dark that it got ignores by a lot. Thanks for giving it some credit where it deserved it.
Btw, I'd love to hear your breakdown of Billy's relationship to his "son," Jeff. Lol
Bill and Mandy was one of the best cartoons ever and still holds up. Need to watch this special. Do you you remember underfist?! Soooo funny and absurd.
I love this Christmas special! It was great to see the Head Vampire reprise his role on the last season of Castlevania
I really appreciate your videos, this truly is a substitute for basic writing classes, you're extremely precise in your explanation of concepts and examples, it inspires me to want to make my own videos analyzing film writing, although perhaps I should focus on my screenplay, and beginning a new one, haha.
See ya in the next one
I definitely wasn't expecting a Billy and Mandy video from Savage Books tonight! 👏👏
I still picture Grim miming along to the "a dolly that laughs and cries!" line when i hear that song
I'm sorry, 20m in and still no billy and Mandy. Lol, love the lead up to how much was needed to be explored to even start talking about the special. Keep up the good work.
"I don't know how vampires work in this world."
"SCRAPE and LICK!"
you sure took your time to talk about everything else but the christmas special in the video
So true
This video is an excellent reason why I love this channel
Yep
Old childhood memories like that never leave me 😁
Best part is Ratts Round and Round playing in the credits heh too awesome
Appreciate you addressing the “She has help scene” because I find it so hard to express why it’s so cringey without sounding sexist 😞
I would add that it’s so groan inducing not because we don’t recognize that there is a problem with female representation in fiction, but because we DO recognize it and are appalled that and this ham fisted pandering is how the chose to address that problem.
all of your analysis is great but your cartoon analysis is my favorite too. It's clear you have a lot of fun with it and enjoy it
Of course I remember this nightmare. Somehow I can always remember the song Grim and the vampire sing. Also, the credits had that Ratt song which immediately as a kid I wanted to know what the hell it was. We didn't have Shazam then. Or a Google that held every song instantly.
Such a compelling video essay. Amazing a cartoon can convey such powerful messages with a light hearted tone. Thank you!
I'd love someday to see a subversive narrative which takes a villain who has done iredeemable things and shows you their backstory, and baits you into thinking you're getting the standard sob story that somehow redeems the character and makes them out to be a regular person with a single flimsy misconception that is making them bad, and the twist is much darker, showing that the villain's backstory did not give them some asinine motive that conveniently serves the plot, but instead stunted their development into a genuinely selfish and evil person who lacks the foundation to understand human behavior.
But in the very core of their experiences are terrifying traumatic memories from when they were innocent, and could have become a better person.
Honestly I was hoping for that from griffith from berserk, but...well you know
The real deconstruction was those lovable ponies and the nasty fight they put up with grim and Mandy.
Jokes aside. It was a fun take on Christmas just like grandma got run over by a reindeer which basically showed how commercialism affected a small town to the bigger city and even rich guys like bucks can be kind deep down while the cousin was greedy before getting money.
Me half way through this: Is... is this a subversion? He hasn't talked about the episode at all.
14:35 I can hear the "vrom" of an activated light saber over near the reyloes
Careful dude
Incredible video. Yes, cartoons like this were very well written.
I remember watching this on Cartoon Network when it came out. I was 7 when I first saw it.
It's my favorite Christmas special lol
I remember this I loved that special episode 😂 it’s like a late night memory where I can remember like pieces and the charcater designs but not much more.
I watch this and Underfist every year with my brothers. Even as adults we can't get past some of our sillier traditions.
Id argue the infinity war "girl power" scene was worse that you gave it credit for, Because I know a lot of people who do recognise the problems with representation etc within Hollywood still saw it as ham fisted, completely un-earned, needlessly preachy and (worst of all for me) completely immersion breaking, Noting takes you out of the suspension of disbelief and reminds you that you are watching a creation of another human being quite like the studio visibly self felating itself in the middle of the climatic action scene. Not only would it fail to convince anyone on the opposite side of the political issue, but its actively irritation and detrimental to the audience experience of this who do agree with you! Literally the worst of both worlds
I'm so glad I subscribed to you. You make great videos! I haven't seen this thing in years, and I remember it surprisingly well, but admit, I did not analyze it like this! Strange, because I love analyzing things, but it's been like 20 years since I've seen it, so maybe I should go and do that again. Thanks for making such an awesome video! Definitely sharing it with my friends!
This video was amazing
While they're excellent movies. I don't see how Knives Out or Glass Onion were subversive. Rian Johnson used every Agatha Christie trope he knew. Then the murderer turned out to be the person we all thought it was.
"This is the closest Cartoon Network will get to showing an abusive marriage."
Me: *Laughs in Courage the Cowardly Dog episode: The Mask*
I remember this from a 4-in-1 DVD with all the Christmas specials... And yes, it's just as hectic as I remember.
this was a very VERY good video!
Good video, as usual, but the title seems limited compared to the various shows and examples presented. it could be something like a study in Expectation and Subversion. Thanks.
I'm 15 minutes in, enraptured and just now remembering that this is about Billy and Mandy
Loving the zelda background music
I’m so distracted by the kame house in the background
Shoot I watched every Christmas until I was like 16
Just remember. Vampires don't suck blood. They scrape and lick.
The 21st night of September
This guy needs to talk about atlanta
As they say, "the good, the bad, the inbetween", world's full of shades lol
I love this special lolgreat video!
Angry comment
But first
Billy and Mandy Save Christmas is really good and
You are a skilled essayist.
The main objections
Storytellers almost never shape society. Storytellers reflect society. By meaningful refection they can assist in changing societies. A Storyteller who tries to do more than reflection will almost always fail.
Billy and Mandy Save Christmas is a satire. Satire complements the main narratives and tropes of a culture. A culture without satire is incomplete. Therefore Satire has its own tropes. With one exception they didn’t subvert any genre typical trope. To misidentify the antagonist is a satirical trope. For the antagonist to be a misunderstood normal guy is a satirical trope.
The only trope that was subverted (which you didn’t pick up) is that usually the hero (Mandy) resolves the conflict by non heroic means. The subversion was that she didn’t contribute to the resolution in a significant way.
Mrs. Claus isn’t a Damsel in distress. A Damsel in distress needs to lack agency and competence. She displays agency in almost every scene, usually by controlling the interaction, which is especially on the nose in her first scene. Also she displays competence by locking up Mr. Claus and organizing the present production.
Another thing to highlight, portraying Mrs. Claus as narcissistic when she takes charge of Billy, skillfully foreshadows the villain twist. Kudos.
YOOOO you’re way younger than I thought you’d be. I thought you were like 35+. Also I have the same wallpaper for my computer too ✊
Ok, I know this isn't the point, but you're voice is absolutely gorgeous. Do you narrate for any ebooks at all?
Shere Khan is ALMOST as racist as his author Rudyard Kipling but yes I agree. Actually woke and progressive works have nuance, self-awareness and genuine honesty that guides the exaggeration of satire. It's why many of us Black people resonate so well with seasons 1- 3 of Boondocks. No Aaron McGruder means no season 4 for me tho.
"She's got help."
They didn't even help, doe...
Ya that all women avengers scene in endgame was dumb and I got called sexist for saying so… even tho they have a much better version of the same scene in infinity war.
Me, Seeing Savage on cam for the first time: OH NO, HE'S HOT!
I would be very interested if Savage has anything to say about Puss in Boots 2
This single video has more statements I disagree with than the entire rest of your channel combined. It's downright impressive.
That said, it's about as fair as I could hope for from a video I so strongly disagree with. I don't have the energy to detail every disagreement I have. I'd be here for hours. Most of the disagreement I have is a matter of framing and not validity, which only makes the thought of going through it all more daunting.
Would you ever go through Underfist, the Halloween special? I remember being obsessed
I don't like the implication of what you said. Animation can be just as, if not more, “serious” than live-action.
Whoa
Funfact Sherlock Holmes is open source as of this year!
You need to watch Andor, you’d love it so much
The tiger was right...
about the End Game 's scene i felt offended (i'm a male by the way). I respect to enjoy all the female characters of the scene and force them in one frame to shine transmited to me the message that "any of them can shine while a male character is alongside them", which is Fucking offensive when i remind you all that at least i like most of that characters and i thing that they are more than capable to shine while sharing screen with any male character
Hogfather
Do a video on the puss in boots villain
Wow nice
The best part is due to the degradation of how our society has gone, this type of subtle genius is no longer possible. The TikTok generation has no capacity for subtext and the methods of persuasion used until the mid-2000s. And this is why my cartoons were better…
Is that the Zelda & Chill remix in the background?
It's so weird to see your face. I like it, but it's always so hard to accept that the face and voice belong together when I only heard the voice first.
This is an unrelated comment to the video but do you watch Vox Machina? Specifically season 2 episode 1, was insane! After a long time I am afraid of dragons again.
So youre keeping up with the Oscars stuff 👀
i know to look for them but thats because i'm in politics lol
The face reveal tho
You should check out *Puss in Boots: The last wish* you're gonna love it because you're a fan of brilliant animated villains
Tldr: gender/racial/patriarchal social issues
End of the video was pretty alright though tbh
22 minute video explain concepts for a 10 minute explaining the actual show... Jajajajajaja
Listen to this SJW 🙄
Okay 👍
Wanna elaborate?
@@athf4ever780 typical leftist pro-vampire virtue signalling
#expectationsSubverted
@@Mr.Beauregarde you just said all the buzzwords without giving any specific details and none of it made any sense at all. What specifically is the issue, subverting tiring cliches? Making a commentary on women in society? Not getting to the actual show which is a valid complaint? What??
@@athf4ever780 the Aristocrats
I like the new video style you did here! You were very engaging in the face cam and it helped me stay focused on what you were saying :)
@savage books good stuff as it always is but if you want a jump on the wild side of crazy written cartoon shows check out invader zim
Homie got a cameras 🤙🤙🤙✨️✨️✨️
Please make a discord server!!!!!
okay I'm gonna go rewatch this on UA-cam first and then come back
What a handsome young man you are! Thanks for another lovely video