You’re right, Can-Am and Polaris don’t actually need to step it up. As far as performance SXS’s go they are the best. They don’t exactly have to compete against each other but instead against the rest of the market. Like Apple and Google they understand that they can share the market and at the same time they both can give people different flavors to choose from because not everyone will choose the same flavor.
I agree they have both left everyone else in the dust unless krx shows up with there’s. Then maybe a contender but I won’t believe that until it’s in the wild and proven
Its just a marketing ploy to get the buzz going and everyone talking about Can-Am instead of Polaris. Creating doubt in minds and getting people to second guess and hold off on buying a Polaris product.
It's just going to be a 4seater with new graphics and 2seater with new graphics. The reason you cant order a new 2025 one yet because they haven't done their reveal party yet.
Maverick R in Canada is getting up to over 72K$ were am from are top dealer sold 2 unit for now in 2024 am not going to pay over 70K for a sxs am going to get 2 x3 for that price nice machine over price big time...
Can-Am's got it in the bag💰 After winning KOH and other races and Polaris not coming out with any new improvements BRP is probably counting their future cash and wondering if they should even release the 4-seater this year instead of just sell off all their stock of existing X3 4-seaters, letting the 2-seat Mav-R's populate the market, and put off releasing the 4-seater Mav-R's for when they actually NEED to when Polaris has something worth competing against again. You know right now in the back offices of Polaris they're kicking themselves trying to figure out what to do next after Can-Am released a "maintenance-free" no-belt tranny and this beastly knuckle design that has proven it can take a beating when racers jump and drop the Mav-R's off BackDoor in KOH.
I'm my own example and not speaking for anyone else, but if Canam does hold off on releasing a new 4 seat car, as you proposed, I will be jumping ship back to Polaris after 7 years in the C/A camp. So I disagree with this a little, bring the Mav R max!
As a latino imma say im kinda worried about Mexicans getting a 4 seat Mav R. I’ve been to events(rutas) and a good amount lack proper etiquette and understanding of how to drive SxS. Mav R’s are wider and faster than X3’s. Just my thoughts about it not trying to offend the raza
Why do you guys believe there will be any MAJOR changes after one year? Its a solid drivetrain when its not broken. Plenty of HP and good DCT. I expect new colors and 4 seater and hope there is going to be a DCT fix vs paying $1800 for a tune/fix. Polaris Pro R has a solid platform also, did they make major changes? NOPE cause its a platform that is proven solid so now they have vented cab and seats.
There is nothing to hide if there isn’t any changes also herd transmission might be a slight difference and max is coming but someone that has inside info thinks big motor is coming but I don’t think that because it’s only 1 year old. Sometimes fishing gets info out lol. some of the info I have got since this video shows it is probably just the 999cc motor and transmission is getting slightly smaller in size and the max is coming
Buddies dad just bought a brand new one and it had transmission problems, the dealer told him transmission was on national back order and had to pull one out of another new car.
I'd guess it took 3 to 5 years to launch the Maverick R from the design phase. Financial models and payback periods throughout, if they were to only have a 1 year run their financials would be in the tank.
New engine, new transmission, new suspension, new electronics… first model year…. Silly to think there won’t be some pretty big changes the first few years.
If you own one then you know you can’t get replacement parts. Mine tacoed an A-arm on its first ride and sat in the shop for 9 months to get an axle. They are not doing anything but fix the issues discovered by real world drivers/consumers. They didn’t redesign the front arms to scrap the whole model.
CanAm may be putting a 4 Cylinder motor in the CanAm. That’s would be the ultimateSxS!!!! If Polaris puts a DCT Like Honda than that would be the ultimate machine. If Honda put their 4 cylinder motor in the Honda Talon, then it would be the ultimate machine. Another words whoever puts a DCT behind a 4 cylinder motor in a SxS will be in the winers circle.
The very first year for the x3 was 154 hp and no smart lok. The second year was 172hp and smart lok. So they have a precedent to make big changes after the first year car. Buying the first model year of a new design is always stupid. Everyone knows that.
What I think they are doing is maybe increasing the shift and a tune . But also I think they may make more space between the back of tire and that mantis arm on the yellow models with the silver even with stock tires it can rub the side wall with 35" tires it rubs more. I have listened to people complaining about this. I see you use dune tires it looks like they are not affected. But I have seen trail tires rubbing. I do not know if you seen this . If they fixed this I know people that put on more of an off set rim to keep the tire side wall from rubbing I ride alone about 99.9% of the time ( by alone I mean only one in the unit) when the wife goes with me she drives the pro r on the rare times she drives the rs1 I put a Polaris turbo s engine in it it bolts right in I changed the location of the radiator had to move the fire wall use bent diamond plate with rubber on the cab side to reduce sound. Since she is shorter this did not affect her . Then if you want to put a tune and big turbo it is easy . I was sad when they killed the RS 1. I think if they would have put a turbo on it to start and made it like 3" longer for clearance for the turbo. It would have taken off like a rocket . I bought two when they first came out and looked at them and said can a turbo motor fit in here bolt up. Lol it was only a week old. out maybe 2 weeks . I had to see . I had to add length to mine I am taller. At this time my worker saw me modifying it well they like the idea and Bought ones to do. My home shop became a utv upgrade place on the weekends. Now I am retired. Some of my guys retired also. They come by and help me work on projects. I think they steal my ideas for them to do on their units or what to see what my crazy ideas I come up with. My home shop is bigger than my house . Helpful hint never let anyone know you have a small machine shop and welding equipment m it is always can you do this for me .
A bigger engine would be cool, some more power, or better gearing, but I think the front suspension needs to go, sidewall scrub is a real thing, and you're limited to tire size. The current design is a gimmick, it works, but its limited. For example, with ultra 4, 4400 teams are using the X3 because they can fit the right size tires according to the rules.
@@desertsxs a little transparency I'm just a mechanic that works on them but can't afford to buy one lol. Wich sucks extra because im only 30 minutes from Johnson valley, and im surrounded by open desert where I live and have nothing to ride. I haven't worked on a mav R yet, I just do a lot of watching and reading. I know if I got the chance to buy a sxs I would still choose the X3.
@@Rt-ig4bk yes, for example Kyle Cheney driving an X3 finished physical first in the Nitto race of kings at king of the hammers 2024 with a broken front shock.
Cry me a river on "not having the latest and greatest anymore". Anyone who's been around the sxs market for any amount of time knows whatever is king this year likely won't be next year. I own a 2017 X3 xrs which was the top dog in 2017 and one year later for 2018, the car went from 154 hp to 172 hp, automotive type belts to retractable harnesses and a refined from differential along with a few other refinements. So fairly big changes in one model year. There's a reason you can get a Mav R for $5-$7k off msrp right now. Something likely much more refined is coming on Aug. 19th.
@@desertsxs Probably less noisy so the dealers stop getting calls about the bag of marbles they forgot to take out during prep 😁. That's just my guess lol
The machines are heavy and the Dunes sap power. 1500 CCS should be the minimum BRP !! The aftermarket is picking up the CASH you are leaving on the table.
Gota remember that they have to stay under 1000cc to be considered legally a sxs. Anything above that and it turns into another type of vehicle and other rules and laws that come with it federally in the u.s. When the pro r came out some states posted that those had to be registered same as a dune buggy which would cost a lil more because they were legally allowed on the street. But that's another can of worms that differs from city to city and state to state
@@dirtymunoz ya very true. I think Polaris kinda opened the door. To see if people would buy it. I’m sure competing wise they want to stay under 1000 cc but the pro r is proof people buy even if it’s above 999
@@dirtymunoz Thanks and Understood but who's writing the rules or laws where you can build a 1000 cc 4 wheeler that is light weight and unprotected yet no more than that on a heavy side by side w a cage and 3 passengers?
There’s no way they are going to discontinue the 2024 R ! They have put way too much into it from ground zero. I do see them improving the maverick R as they have had almost a year to get feedback. I am sure they will release a max R and maybe they may introduce the 1500cc in the max R due to the weight…. Who knows maybe they will also put it in the maverick R as an option. Can only imagine what the prices will be. As far as the x3 platform I think they will keep it for a few more years to be able to sell a lower model priced sxs to the market for those that can’t afford the higher end model such as the maverick R The x3 is there flagship and took off like no other. In a few weeks we will see what is going to be released. We all know they are going to introduce a new color/ colors as they always do every year … what colors I couldn’t tell you … maybe a new design I. Seating ?
Btw, can I rag on the new Polaris for a second? I laughed when they said "New graphics" because how are you going to come out emphasizing new stickers when your competitor has come out with all new suspension, new trans that doesn't use belts, and just a whole new model as a whole? Then when they said "Force-inducted cooled seats" or whatever they called them: Do you know why Polaris didn't say AC seats like car manufacturers say? Because when you have a car that has "AC Seats" it only works correctly when you run the AC and then the fans blow air up your ______. If you ever noticed when the car has been sitting in the summer heat and you start your car and ac seats you get hot air blowing out of the seat. You have to wait until the air in the car cools down before turning the seats on for them to actually make you comfortable with cooler air. The seats don't have individual AC condensers to blow the air through to give you truly "AC" seats. SO: If you're in a SXS in the desert it's going to be blowing hot air out of the seats at you. I suppose the only time it would be comfortable is if you're moving quick and that cooler air makes it through the seat to your back and keeps your from getting swampy, but once you stop I don't see it being more useful than just a fan blow at your back. Plus don't most enthusiasts replace the seats and the graphics? Sooo... 🤷♂
No way they are making any big changes. And there is no way we will see a bigger engine for at least a couple more years. We will get the Mav R 4 and maybe they do something with the tune for power delivery. Maybe they add 5hp to the marketing numbers like they have in the past. They have no reason to do anything bigger. People will keep buying what they just came out with last year. I don’t think we will see any big changes until 2026 or even later.
Maverick R is overrated unless you ride in the open…way to wide for the trails…that windshield is way too big and tight at dashboard the brakes are terrible and the loud noise the shifting makes is annoying. I was not impressed! Looks sweet but not for the trails!!!
It is a very wide rig for sure even out here in the south west I have been in some places that I was like oh this a little to wide but rare for this area. I did not love it on day 1 driving it but after I tuned out the shifting and got comfortable I loved it
The ProR has the correct engine. That’s about it. Same truck-like style with a 4banger and rubber band drive. Lame. Everything without a DCT is archaic
So a new source reached out and claim is a little smaller transmission for 2025 and mavr 4 seat coming.
Can am is going to unveil the maverick r 4. The mav r is a beast of a car right now. Just need to smoothen out the wrinkles
I agree
You’re right, Can-Am and Polaris don’t actually need to step it up. As far as performance SXS’s go they are the best. They don’t exactly have to compete against each other but instead against the rest of the market. Like Apple and Google they understand that they can share the market and at the same time they both can give people different flavors to choose from because not everyone will choose the same flavor.
I agree they have both left everyone else in the dust unless krx shows up with there’s. Then maybe a contender but I won’t believe that until it’s in the wild and proven
Its just a marketing ploy to get the buzz going and everyone talking about Can-Am instead of Polaris. Creating doubt in minds and getting people to second guess and hold off on buying a Polaris product.
Ya could be true
CARB filing in california has a MAVERICK R as well as a MAVERICK MAX
Nice good to know thanks
It's just going to be a 4seater with new graphics and 2seater with new graphics. The reason you cant order a new 2025 one yet because they haven't done their reveal party yet.
Ya I’m sure they want to have us on the edge of our seats and show the max model
We were just wondering if brp couldn't settle on a ws price cause of dealer inventories and changes along with a potential 4 seater.
4 seater maverick r 🙏 and I’ll get into det asap
I think you are going to be getting into debt
YEAH I REMEMBER YOUR NEWS FROM LAST YEAR WITH THE SUPERCHARGED KRX FROM KAWASAKI YOUR INTEL WAS WRONG
It was they pushed on that one my krx guy said this year it’s a thing but I’ll wait to see on that one this time
The Maverick R is not discontinued. It just came out in 2025 with no color schemes, but it's still in production.
Ya you may want to watch the full video before commenting. That way you understand the context of the video. That was also before the 25 was announced
Maverick R in Canada is getting up to over 72K$ were am from are top dealer sold 2 unit for now in 2024 am not going to pay over 70K for a sxs am going to get 2 x3 for that price nice machine over price big time...
Wow that’s crazy
Can-Am's got it in the bag💰
After winning KOH and other races and Polaris not coming out with any new improvements BRP is probably counting their future cash and wondering if they should even release the 4-seater this year instead of just sell off all their stock of existing X3 4-seaters, letting the 2-seat Mav-R's populate the market, and put off releasing the 4-seater Mav-R's for when they actually NEED to when Polaris has something worth competing against again.
You know right now in the back offices of Polaris they're kicking themselves trying to figure out what to do next after Can-Am released a "maintenance-free" no-belt tranny and this beastly knuckle design that has proven it can take a beating when racers jump and drop the Mav-R's off BackDoor in KOH.
It is definitely a beast make it problem free and it’s a great machine
I'm my own example and not speaking for anyone else, but if Canam does hold off on releasing a new 4 seat car, as you proposed, I will be jumping ship back to Polaris after 7 years in the C/A camp. So I disagree with this a little, bring the Mav R max!
@@Scurti-rv5qs I am pretty sure the max is coming from what I hear
Pro r seems to be doing really good in Baja. Winning a ton of races.
@@daronbryant3306 yes it does really the pror and mav r are both great machines
As a latino imma say im kinda worried about Mexicans getting a 4 seat Mav R. I’ve been to events(rutas) and a good amount lack proper etiquette and understanding of how to drive SxS. Mav R’s are wider and faster than X3’s. Just my thoughts about it not trying to offend the raza
These cars are getting crazy fast and impressive all around. It is an issue for everyone probably rentals more than anything but ya I get your point
I want a 64" wide updated X3 with the R engine and trans. Throw the bigger engine in the 2025 R and put the 2024 Mav R engine in the X3.
I like that idea
Why do you guys believe there will be any MAJOR changes after one year? Its a solid drivetrain when its not broken. Plenty of HP and good DCT. I expect new colors and 4 seater and hope there is going to be a DCT fix vs paying $1800 for a tune/fix. Polaris Pro R has a solid platform also, did they make major changes? NOPE cause its a platform that is proven solid so now they have vented cab and seats.
There is nothing to hide if there isn’t any changes also herd transmission might be a slight difference and max is coming but someone that has inside info thinks big motor is coming but I don’t think that because it’s only 1 year old. Sometimes fishing gets info out lol. some of the info I have got since this video shows it is probably just the 999cc motor and transmission is getting slightly smaller in size and the max is coming
Buddies dad just bought a brand new one and it had transmission problems, the dealer told him transmission was on national back order and had to pull one out of another new car.
Oh that. Sucks
This. No parts. Period
Maybe because the welds, fab, fit and finish is a dumpster fire on them.
More duct tape is needed for the plastics for sure lol
I'd guess it took 3 to 5 years to launch the Maverick R from the design phase. Financial models and payback periods throughout, if they were to only have a 1 year run their financials would be in the tank.
Ya it would hurt I’m sure to do that
New engine, new transmission, new suspension, new electronics… first model year…. Silly to think there won’t be some pretty big changes the first few years.
I am assuming changes is it just a little here and there or big ones. That’s what I’m trying to figure out
@@desertsxsbetter infotainment without the need of a phone prob?
@@stondmunkey hopefully
If you own one then you know you can’t get replacement parts. Mine tacoed an A-arm on its first ride and sat in the shop for 9 months to get an axle. They are not doing anything but fix the issues discovered by real world drivers/consumers. They didn’t redesign the front arms to scrap the whole model.
Yes they are slow to repair that has been the most disappointing part about canam
I bet you see hp bump, 4 seater, oh shit button, improved infotainment and some fixes for the issues its had.
Yes yes and I hope so with all that I would be excited for that
So they gonna copy polaris?
Mav R Max 4 seater with bigger motor takes my money
That would be an awesome set up for sure
YES!! PLEASE!!!
CanAm may be putting a 4 Cylinder motor in the CanAm. That’s would be the ultimateSxS!!!! If Polaris puts a DCT
Like Honda than that would be the ultimate machine. If Honda put their 4 cylinder motor in the Honda Talon, then it would be the ultimate machine. Another words whoever puts a DCT behind a 4 cylinder motor in a SxS will be in the winers circle.
Couldn’t agree more
The very first year for the x3 was 154 hp and no smart lok. The second year was 172hp and smart lok. So they have a precedent to make big changes after the first year car.
Buying the first model year of a new design is always stupid. Everyone knows that.
Ya I hope this one does a good size jump
What I think they are doing is maybe increasing the shift and a tune . But also I think they may make more space between the back of tire and that mantis arm on the yellow models with the silver even with stock tires it can rub the side wall with 35" tires it rubs more. I have listened to people complaining about this. I see you use dune tires it looks like they are not affected. But I have seen trail tires rubbing. I do not know if you seen this . If they fixed this
I know people that put on more of an off set rim to keep the tire side wall from rubbing
I ride alone about 99.9% of the time ( by alone I mean only one in the unit) when the wife goes with me she drives the pro r on the rare times she drives the rs1 I put a Polaris turbo s engine in it it bolts right in I changed the location of the radiator had to move the fire wall use bent diamond plate with rubber on the cab side to reduce sound. Since she is shorter this did not affect her . Then if you want to put a tune and big turbo it is easy .
I was sad when they killed the RS 1. I think if they would have put a turbo on it to start and made it like 3" longer for clearance for the turbo. It would have taken off like a rocket . I bought two when they first came out and looked at them and said can a turbo motor fit in here bolt up. Lol it was only a week old. out maybe 2 weeks . I had to see . I had to add length to mine I am taller.
At this time my worker saw me modifying it well they like the idea and Bought ones to do.
My home shop became a utv upgrade place on the weekends.
Now I am retired. Some of my guys retired also. They come by and help me work on projects. I think they steal my ideas for them to do on their units or what to see what my crazy ideas I come up with. My home shop is bigger than my house . Helpful hint never let anyone know you have a small machine shop and welding equipment m it is always can you do this for me .
I do a fair amount of dirt it does have a couple rub marks. That’s an awesome set up but ya I bet favors all the time are asked
A bigger engine would be cool, some more power, or better gearing, but I think the front suspension needs to go, sidewall scrub is a real thing, and you're limited to tire size. The current design is a gimmick, it works, but its limited. For example, with ultra 4, 4400 teams are using the X3 because they can fit the right size tires according to the rules.
Ya to be able to run a 37 for some of these races would be good for sure.
@@desertsxs a little transparency I'm just a mechanic that works on them but can't afford to buy one lol. Wich sucks extra because im only 30 minutes from Johnson valley, and im surrounded by open desert where I live and have nothing to ride. I haven't worked on a mav R yet, I just do a lot of watching and reading. I know if I got the chance to buy a sxs I would still choose the X3.
@@zerolimitsracing1
Even with crappy chassis and lack of quality?
@@Rt-ig4bk yes, for example Kyle Cheney driving an X3 finished physical first in the Nitto race of kings at king of the hammers 2024 with a broken front shock.
Cry me a river on "not having the latest and greatest anymore". Anyone who's been around the sxs market for any amount of time knows whatever is king this year likely won't be next year. I own a 2017 X3 xrs which was the top dog in 2017 and one year later for 2018, the car went from 154 hp to 172 hp, automotive type belts to retractable harnesses and a refined from differential along with a few other refinements. So fairly big changes in one model year. There's a reason you can get a Mav R for $5-$7k off msrp right now. Something likely much more refined is coming on Aug. 19th.
Yes it’s an addiction that is very expensive
they have too many 2024's with a 5 k rebate so they aren't making any 2025
Maybe the 24s will
Get cheaper
Not discontinued and only minor changes. And 4 seater.
Sounds like transmission may be a hair different
@@desertsxs Probably less noisy so the dealers stop getting calls about the bag of marbles they forgot to take out during prep 😁. That's just my guess lol
The machines are heavy and the Dunes sap power. 1500 CCS should be the minimum BRP !!
The aftermarket is picking up the CASH you are leaving on the table.
Great point!
Gota remember that they have to stay under 1000cc to be considered legally a sxs. Anything above that and it turns into another type of vehicle and other rules and laws that come with it federally in the u.s. When the pro r came out some states posted that those had to be registered same as a dune buggy which would cost a lil more because they were legally allowed on the street. But that's another can of worms that differs from city to city and state to state
@@dirtymunoz ya very true. I think Polaris kinda opened the door. To see if people would buy it. I’m sure competing wise they want to stay under 1000 cc but the pro r is proof people buy even if it’s above 999
@@dirtymunoz Thanks and Understood but who's writing the rules or laws where you can build a 1000 cc 4 wheeler that is light weight and unprotected yet no more than that on a heavy side by side w a cage and 3 passengers?
There’s no way they are going to discontinue the 2024 R ! They have put way too much into it from ground zero. I do see them improving the maverick R as they have had almost a year to get feedback.
I am sure they will release a max R and maybe they may introduce the 1500cc in the max R due to the weight…. Who knows maybe they will also put it in the maverick R as an option. Can only imagine what the prices will be. As far as the x3 platform I think they will keep it for a few more years to be able to sell a lower model priced sxs to the market for those that can’t afford the higher end model such as the maverick R
The x3 is there flagship and took off like no other.
In a few weeks we will see what is going to be released. We all know they are going to introduce a new color/ colors as they always do every year … what colors I couldn’t tell you … maybe a new design I. Seating ?
I’m guessing minor changes and the max
Too many in current dealership inventory
I do think that might play into things also
They're gonna unveil the XRC and XMR trims
I think a rc model will be a big hit with the mav r
When is the release date??!!
19th last I heard
Not to go off-topic, but in the defender lone star, do you know if any color changes?
Sorry I didn’t look them all over just saw this and lost all consciousness 😂
@@desertsxs 😂 It’s fine
Anyone know when the 2025 models will be announced?
19th last I saw
And a four seater will come out too
Ya I think so to
they have patents for a new transmission for the mav r and it has a belt.
Oh really that’s interesting. I didn’t think they would go back to the belt
Btw, can I rag on the new Polaris for a second? I laughed when they said "New graphics" because how are you going to come out emphasizing new stickers when your competitor has come out with all new suspension, new trans that doesn't use belts, and just a whole new model as a whole?
Then when they said "Force-inducted cooled seats" or whatever they called them: Do you know why Polaris didn't say AC seats like car manufacturers say? Because when you have a car that has "AC Seats" it only works correctly when you run the AC and then the fans blow air up your ______. If you ever noticed when the car has been sitting in the summer heat and you start your car and ac seats you get hot air blowing out of the seat. You have to wait until the air in the car cools down before turning the seats on for them to actually make you comfortable with cooler air. The seats don't have individual AC condensers to blow the air through to give you truly "AC" seats. SO:
If you're in a SXS in the desert it's going to be blowing hot air out of the seats at you. I suppose the only time it would be comfortable is if you're moving quick and that cooler air makes it through the seat to your back and keeps your from getting swampy, but once you stop I don't see it being more useful than just a fan blow at your back.
Plus don't most enthusiasts replace the seats and the graphics? Sooo... 🤷♂
Yes a lot of valid points double tap red button was about all I was excited about with it
They just leaked a 4 seater maverick R white doors red shassis
Yeah
No way they are making any big changes. And there is no way we will see a bigger engine for at least a couple more years. We will get the Mav R 4 and maybe they do something with the tune for power delivery. Maybe they add 5hp to the marketing numbers like they have in the past. They have no reason to do anything bigger. People will keep buying what they just came out with last year. I don’t think we will see any big changes until 2026 or even later.
Ya mavr 4 and small hp gain is my guess too
@@desertsxs don't forget bold new graphics!
@@ODXJ for sure lol
Maybe because it’s 50 grand!
Maybe true
Small changes and 4 seat models is all I see . Market is flat now with tons of deals and inventory
Ya I kinda wonder if that’s all they will do now because the market is slow right now
Maverick R is overrated unless you ride in the open…way to wide for the trails…that windshield is way too big and tight at dashboard the brakes are terrible and the loud noise the shifting makes is annoying. I was not impressed! Looks sweet but not for the trails!!!
It is a very wide rig for sure even out here in the south west I have been in some places that I was like oh this a little to wide but rare for this area. I did not love it on day 1 driving it but after I tuned out the shifting and got comfortable I loved it
Or could be a RC
I hope to see one of those this year
Belt back for 2025 ….
Sounds like maybe as an option
@@desertsxs I was told it’s a big possibility to add a weak point again that is the rumor .
@@chrispitts9010 yes I have herd it will be an option but not sure if it’s the only option
The Pro R has no competition and Can-am had 3 years to build a better machine. 😂
I really like my pror but the mav r is impressive too
The Pro R makes me laugh. The motor is good, the rest of the machine SUCKS.
@@michaelsmith-dk5hj
🤔
The ProR has the correct engine. That’s about it. Same truck-like style with a 4banger and rubber band drive. Lame. Everything without a DCT is archaic