My JMP 2203 really starts to come alive with the Master above 4. The sweet spot is about 6 for me. The reason the JMP sounded so much brighter and leaner was likely because the Master was only on 1 (power tubes are not being pushed). As you crank the MV it will definitely thicken up and get a lot more low end girth as well as more harmonics from the output stage.
Although I don’t own any of your gear :( I love the products you are making! So thank you from an admirer 🙏🙏 . I think both the jmp and the 800 have the same master volume circuit right? I could get them back in the studio and do it again with a higher output level. I’m also going to do a video on the 4 types of master volume circuits installed on the same amp, mainly to educate people on the differences and how it affects tone.
@@Beau.Burchell Hey Beau, thanks so much! I hope you can check some of it out someday. I believe the JMP and 800 are indeed the same in that regard. If I’m not mistaken the entire pre amp is very similar. I think it would be really cool if you did make that video. Keep us posted!
and what about that split chanel...??...I own it and let go to new owner...classic jcm800...to 83'...with original design or jmp sounded way better for me...and if I need more meat I plugged in front of some boost or eq...but 6550 are my favourite tubes too...!!...(;...
I played a JMP stack (well, for gigs I only brought the slanted cab) in the 80s in L.A. and loved it. I wasn't crazy about the JCMs but I loved the Jubilee. But I would boost my JMP with an original MXR Distortion Plus or a ProCo Rat, Tube Screamer or Boss SD-1. I started to favor the SD-1 for its combination of boost and transparency.
They sound similar in the gain structure, but I think the difference in thickness is also down to maybe variance in the treble bleed cap? Would love to hear them beefed up by turning up the master up at last half way, cause at master 1 you're basicly hearing only the preamp section ;D
Nice! This was really helpful cause I actually had no real idea how those amps sound. Like...I have the idea in my head, but that’s not the same. ONLY thing I had trouble with was discerning the high end of the amps from the string noise. But I think I got it! 👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
They all sounded so glorious which I found surprising as you had the master volumes so low. Id love to hear how diffrent the sound "opened up". My '84 800s current sweet spot is between 2 and 3 occlock on the MV it sounds like a different amp lower.
Correct, as stated in the description. I've got a variable resonance knob on the back. I've also upgraded a few components to add some clarity and add harmonics. All three of these amps have been modded over the years. They are also going through an oversized mesa cab.
On tone talk Dave Friedman said that the transformers are better in the JMP , interesting side note. Im sure both heads are amazing but my guitar tech loves his super lead. I have a few heads and over 30 speakers, messing w speakers made a big difference for me. Ill add a marshall head sometime . Great video thumbs up
Wow really great comparison! i prefer jcm800 massive sound... Have you tested 2203x in the original condition with the two others JMP? if yes what's the differences?
Thank you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼 I have not made a comparison video. But I did document and record all of the different mods we did to the 800. I could make a video on that if you like.
I assume these are all 100W? The 50W sound a bit different. The slight differences in the three could be tubes, both pre and power. Curious if they are all the same type and brand?
All 100 watt. And ya exactly my point. When someone assumes that an older amp is better, there are way more factors than just age and version. All different tubes.
Question where did you get that wooden shelf been looking for one to put my amp heads on. Nice Video, the switcher makes everything so much easier doesn't it?
Hey thanks! Yes the switcher makes everything soooo much easier and faster. The shelves are from ikea. They come in a natural pine color and I stained them darker. I forget the exact name of them, but I remember them being around 60 usd or so.
@@heythere6983 what I’ve read is EVh with his old plexi ran the variac and starved the amp at 89 volts but the power tubes were biased to do 89/90 volts.
I wonder if the differences are in different components, potentiometers, tubes and bias. They all sound like they're 2203's but there are differences. I liked MrShall the most. Maybe I was hearing with my eyes, but it also seemed to want the master louder. It sounded like it was just starting to open up. A 2203 is a 2203 tho. Doesn't really matter what letters they have.
Ya that’s what I’m thinking. I intentionally kept the amps low to keep the power tubes out of the equation as much as possible. They all sound different at different levels. And ya. They are just on the verge of coming to life.
I definitely prefer to look at the jmp, can't really tell if they sound much different to Jcm's yet. As I currently understand, the jmp was marshalls own 'modded' plexi, just giving it a master volume and simplifying the inputs? And then the jcm was more less just a visual make over?
There is nothing wrong with it. Listen to my opening statement. The conclusion is that people should use their ears, not assumptions. There are always exceptions. Also, my 800 has about $300 worth of upgraded NOS parts in it. One of the best 800’s I’ve come across.
@@chrischoir3594 Absolutely not trying to be tough in the slightest. Reading back my comment I can understand if you took it as me being aggressive or defensive. It was not meant to be that way. I brought up the mods not as a brag, but as insight as to why the 800 sounds bigger than the jmp. My amp tech and I have spent a long time dialing in that 800, so I mention it to let you know its not a completely fair fight. But then again, one of those jmp's has some upgrades as well, I think one of them had a mercury transformer and some sort of gain mod. I'd have to ask the owner exactly what it was. Either way. Apologies if my comment upset you in any way.
To me, the 800 is too dark. It’s a cool sound but the cut of the JMPs is better to my ears. Between the two JMPs, the taped one seems to be easier to dial in, so for that reason I would go for the tapes JMP, although I would almost want the combination of a JMP and an 800 😂
Ya. It’s cool. I think I could use any of these on an album and be happy. Ideally I’d move mics to cater to each amp. But this is just a fun little jam session.
Hey man I’m wondering if you can give me some info. I been looking into these older marshalls. My question is, they have mains input voltage selectors so does that mean I can purchase one from anywhere in the world and aslong as they have a switch for the voltage in my country they should work? I had one guy tell me his was only tested for Europe and he would need a step up transformer for USA though his amp has the voltage selector for USA voltage . I’m pretty sure the whole point of the selector is to avoid an external transformer and for the amps to be global . These Older amps aren’t like my jvm Hjs that is literally only USA voltage with no selector, the older marshalls tend to have selectors, so what’s the deal with that? Also, since in the USA they were rated for only 110 v, does that mean I’d need a variac since outlets nowadays are at about 125v ? I’m honesty surprised none of these classic amp owners know the answer to this!
ya its a re issue 2203. just a few component changes. I don't think we changed any values, just upgraded a few parts. I"ll be doing a master volume mod live stream on my twitch if that interests you. My tech who modded my 800 will be doing the mods and you can ask all the questions to us when we stream the MV mods. :)
@@nikolavuksan2029 amazing! yes. link to my twitch stream is here. www.twitch.tv/beauburchell. and I'll paste a link to my discord as well. You can request what I do on the stream via my discord server.
Having the Master that low on the 800 and JMP 2203/2204 is doing them an injustice. Cranking the master isn't just affecting how much volume it has, its also indirectly adjusting power tube distortion. A good attenuator will absolutely transform all of these amps. I've got an Aracom PRX150-DAG and it makes 50 and 100 watt Marshalls like this absolutely sing.
I think “injustice” is gene dependent. If you are talking about regular rock music, maybe yes. I would find a spot on each amp where the power amp section is saturating in a beneficial way. All three of these amps saturate the power sections at different points, they have different transformers as well. So I wanted to try and take that out of the equation. For more modern and metal music, a tighter low end is usually preferred and almost no power amp section saturation. Maybe next time I have these amps in here I can do another one showing the differences at higher master levels.
@@Beau.Burchell Thanks! im gettin mine and i would like to know...crankin the preamp and boosting the front end with a Ts9/sd-1 can be used at 1/10 on the Master Volume without goin deaf?
Your 800 definitely sounds beefier. Both your JMPs sounded thin comparatively. It’s interesting, because when I put my JMP next to my friend’s 800, it’s the opposite. My JMP has more low end and the top end is less brittle. Power tubes can make a huge difference too. I’m not sure what I have in mine, but I know some JMP’s have 6L6’s and some have EL34’s.
Is a little difficult for me to conclude anything really useful, when the amps has been modded. I would have preferred if they was as close to stock as possible... But maybe it wasn't the purpose of this shoot out? Not critical, just curious... 😊👍
I would add that comparing any amp that old is somewhat of a wash because of all the variables and wear and tear. The point was that so many people were quick to choose their favorite without even hearing them.
Guitar input to KHE. Tuner out to MW1. Tuner out of the mw1 to tuner. Another cool feature of the khe is the front input takes priority over the rear input. So if I unplug the front input. The rear input is connected to the reamp output of the mw1.
These are all literally the exact same circuit with same component values throughout, no? If that's so, then the differences are our imagination or your typical differences due to parts tolerances and knob-position differences. Would have been useful to open up each and confirm all the component values are the same, which should be pretty quick and easy.
totally.. I could have opened up the amps, like you suggest, but honestly, it's not really worth it when all of the comments will be negative and missing the point of the video. The main point I was hoping people would take away is to just use your ears. There isn't a magic amp model with the older amps, I've played plenty of bad sounding and great sounding Marshalls of the same model. They are all wildly different with different aging components like you mentioned. One of the JMP models had a newer mercury transformer which I thought would have made a larger impact on the sound, but I was surprised. Anyways, I love this stuff and could ramble on for ages. I appreciate you watching the video. I do a lot of this kind of thing on my twitch channel if you are into this kind of geeky content. :)
My JMP 2203 really starts to come alive with the Master above 4. The sweet spot is about 6 for me. The reason the JMP sounded so much brighter and leaner was likely because the Master was only on 1 (power tubes are not being pushed). As you crank the MV it will definitely thicken up and get a lot more low end girth as well as more harmonics from the output stage.
Although I don’t own any of your gear :( I love the products you are making! So thank you from an admirer 🙏🙏 . I think both the jmp and the 800 have the same master volume circuit right? I could get them back in the studio and do it again with a higher output level. I’m also going to do a video on the 4 types of master volume circuits installed on the same amp, mainly to educate people on the differences and how it affects tone.
@@Beau.Burchell Hey Beau, thanks so much! I hope you can check some of it out someday. I believe the JMP and 800 are indeed the same in that regard. If I’m not mistaken the entire pre amp is very similar. I think it would be really cool if you did make that video. Keep us posted!
@@Beau.Burchell Bruh. It’s been 11 months. Please don’t ironically make us wait “Seven Years” for this vid. 😂
At that level, it shakes the drywall tape out of my walls.
The 800 got that full body 🥰
You're a guitar tone wizard! Thank you for doing this. Looking forward for more guitar/studio content.
awesome comparison! love the top JMP! thanks beau!
I never noticed your Giving Tree tattoo. That's bad ass! Great comparison. Thanks for posting!
Thanks!!!!
I have a latter 80’s jcm800 2210 head with 6550’s and it’s completely brutal. Love it
and what about that split chanel...??...I own it and let go to new owner...classic jcm800...to 83'...with original design or jmp sounded way better for me...and if I need more meat I plugged in front of some boost or eq...but 6550 are my favourite tubes too...!!...(;...
Great video...always loved my old 800 (my first real amp at 16)...but I do love the clarity from your JMPs
I played a JMP stack (well, for gigs I only brought the slanted cab) in the 80s in L.A. and loved it. I wasn't crazy about the JCMs but I loved the Jubilee. But I would boost my JMP with an original MXR Distortion Plus or a ProCo Rat, Tube Screamer or Boss SD-1. I started to favor the SD-1 for its combination of boost and transparency.
That’s certainly a great combination! 🔥🔥
They sound similar in the gain structure, but I think the difference in thickness is also down to maybe variance in the treble bleed cap? Would love to hear them beefed up by turning up the master up at last half way, cause at master 1 you're basicly hearing only the preamp section ;D
Nice! This was really helpful cause I actually had no real idea how those amps sound. Like...I have the idea in my head, but that’s not the same. ONLY thing I had trouble with was discerning the high end of the amps from the string noise. But I think I got it! 👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
Rad! And keep in mind that all those old amps all sound totally different.
Those are the best sounding marshall amps ever!!!
They all sounded so glorious which I found surprising as you had the master volumes so low. Id love to hear how diffrent the sound "opened up". My '84 800s current sweet spot is between 2 and 3 occlock on the MV it sounds like a different amp lower.
Crazy how different the JMPs sound. Second one sounded way better to me
That 800 is sick!
Cool video. Im not a marshal guy but that JMP was surprisingly good. I already knew what the 800 was going to sound like.
800 sounds solid. 💪
The Super Lead would be the four hole version. These are the Master Series. Just an FYI.
They have script font on the back of the chassis that says “super lead 100” 🤷♂️
Your 800 seems to have a lot of bass? I’ve got 2 , and they sound much brighter, yours sounds bit like a rectifier? Can’t be a stock 800?
Correct, as stated in the description. I've got a variable resonance knob on the back. I've also upgraded a few components to add some clarity and add harmonics. All three of these amps have been modded over the years. They are also going through an oversized mesa cab.
Nice one man 👌I gotta a 2203 and A/B with my mess single rec and they work so well together 🍑
On tone talk Dave Friedman said that the transformers are better in the JMP , interesting side note. Im sure both heads are amazing but my guitar tech loves his super lead.
I have a few heads and over 30 speakers, messing w speakers made a big difference for me. Ill add a marshall head sometime . Great video thumbs up
I don't know about better, the voltages tend to be lower in jmp's but you can drop the B+ on an 800 and make them less stiff feeling.
Wow really great comparison! i prefer jcm800 massive sound... Have you tested 2203x in the original condition with the two others JMP? if yes what's the differences?
Thank you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼 I have not made a comparison video. But I did document and record all of the different mods we did to the 800. I could make a video on that if you like.
@@Beau.Burchell oh yes! it would be very interesting to me, because i want to buy the 2203x
The 800 for me 👍
I assume these are all 100W? The 50W sound a bit different. The slight differences in the three could be tubes, both pre and power. Curious if they are all the same type and brand?
All 100 watt. And ya exactly my point. When someone assumes that an older amp is better, there are way more factors than just age and version. All different tubes.
Question where did you get that wooden shelf been looking for one to put my amp heads on.
Nice Video, the switcher makes everything so much easier doesn't it?
Hey thanks! Yes the switcher makes everything soooo much easier and faster. The shelves are from ikea. They come in a natural pine color and I stained them darker. I forget the exact name of them, but I remember them being around 60 usd or so.
It would be interesting to have them both ran through a variac down to 90-85 volts and see how they differ.
I’ve also heard going up to 220 and then Variac down to 215 is how they were meant to be.
In order to do the variac method properly the bias would need to be adjusted accordingly for that wanted brown sound sag.....
Don’t these old amps need to be variac’d to 110 volts anyways?
@@heythere6983 what I’ve read is EVh with his old plexi ran the variac and starved the amp at 89 volts but the power tubes were biased to do 89/90 volts.
@@Beau.Burchell i heard the same but i thought that pertained to euro model Marshall’s since their voltage is highly over there
Next time, I’d like to be able to hear the amp over the guitar acoustically. Great tones regardless.
I would have loved to hear it with the camera audio muted when you're not talking so that I don't hear the guitar strings along with the amp sound.
I promise I’ll start putting more effort into these videos. 😎
@@Beau.Burchell believe it when I see it, haha
That 800 man!! 🔥
I wonder if the differences are in different components, potentiometers, tubes and bias. They all sound like they're 2203's but there are differences. I liked MrShall the most. Maybe I was hearing with my eyes, but it also seemed to want the master louder. It sounded like it was just starting to open up. A 2203 is a 2203 tho. Doesn't really matter what letters they have.
Ya that’s what I’m thinking. I intentionally kept the amps low to keep the power tubes out of the equation as much as possible. They all sound different at different levels. And ya. They are just on the verge of coming to life.
@@Beau.Burchell cool vid tho. Thanks.
I kinda wish that I couldn’t hear the guitar acoustically……I preferred the 800
I definitely prefer to look at the jmp, can't really tell if they sound much different to Jcm's yet. As I currently understand, the jmp was marshalls own 'modded' plexi, just giving it a master volume and simplifying the inputs? And then the jcm was more less just a visual make over?
I agree the 800 is awesome
something is wrong that JMP it sounds thin, it should sound slightly better than the JCM
There is nothing wrong with it. Listen to my opening statement. The conclusion is that people should use their ears, not assumptions. There are always exceptions. Also, my 800 has about $300 worth of upgraded NOS parts in it. One of the best 800’s I’ve come across.
@@Beau.Burchell ok tough guy lol
@@chrischoir3594 Absolutely not trying to be tough in the slightest. Reading back my comment I can understand if you took it as me being aggressive or defensive. It was not meant to be that way. I brought up the mods not as a brag, but as insight as to why the 800 sounds bigger than the jmp. My amp tech and I have spent a long time dialing in that 800, so I mention it to let you know its not a completely fair fight. But then again, one of those jmp's has some upgrades as well, I think one of them had a mercury transformer and some sort of gain mod. I'd have to ask the owner exactly what it was. Either way. Apologies if my comment upset you in any way.
To me, the 800 is too dark. It’s a cool sound but the cut of the JMPs is better to my ears. Between the two JMPs, the taped one seems to be easier to dial in, so for that reason I would go for the tapes JMP, although I would almost want the combination of a JMP and an 800 😂
Ya. It’s cool. I think I could use any of these on an album and be happy. Ideally I’d move mics to cater to each amp. But this is just a fun little jam session.
800 seemed to have a ton more bottom end (iPhone speakers)
Same experience in my end.
Hey man I’m wondering if you can give me some info. I been looking into these older marshalls. My question is, they have mains input voltage selectors so does that mean I can purchase one from anywhere in the world and aslong as they have a switch for the voltage in my country they should work?
I had one guy tell me his was only tested for Europe and he would need a step up transformer for USA though his amp has the voltage selector for USA voltage . I’m pretty sure the whole point of the selector is to avoid an external transformer and for the amps to be global . These
Older amps aren’t like my jvm Hjs that is literally only USA voltage with no selector, the older marshalls tend to have selectors, so what’s the deal with that?
Also, since in the USA they were rated for only 110 v, does that mean I’d need a variac since outlets nowadays are at about 125v ?
I’m honesty surprised none of these classic amp owners know the answer to this!
Hi, where did you buy those blue pointers on the amp?
So is that an JCM 800 2203x? I am honestly blown away! That's my dream amp! What are the minor mods?
ya its a re issue 2203. just a few component changes. I don't think we changed any values, just upgraded a few parts. I"ll be doing a master volume mod live stream on my twitch if that interests you. My tech who modded my 800 will be doing the mods and you can ask all the questions to us when we stream the MV mods. :)
@@Beau.Burchell hey Beau I would love that a lot! How do I watch it do you have a link?
Again, I want to get a JCM 800 and do the same mod!
@@nikolavuksan2029 amazing! yes. link to my twitch stream is here. www.twitch.tv/beauburchell. and I'll paste a link to my discord as well. You can request what I do on the stream via my discord server.
it doesn't need s pedal. Great sound. Now i see why Scorpions used these heads im the mid-late 70s.
Having the Master that low on the 800 and JMP 2203/2204 is doing them an injustice. Cranking the master isn't just affecting how much volume it has, its also indirectly adjusting power tube distortion. A good attenuator will absolutely transform all of these amps. I've got an Aracom PRX150-DAG and it makes 50 and 100 watt Marshalls like this absolutely sing.
I think “injustice” is gene dependent. If you are talking about regular rock music, maybe yes. I would find a spot on each amp where the power amp section is saturating in a beneficial way. All three of these amps saturate the power sections at different points, they have different transformers as well. So I wanted to try and take that out of the equation. For more modern and metal music, a tighter low end is usually preferred and almost no power amp section saturation. Maybe next time I have these amps in here I can do another one showing the differences at higher master levels.
Why is the logo taped over ?
Not Sure. Maybe the band did a TV performance at one point and never removed the tape?
What mods does the JCM 800 have? Thanks!.
Really minor ones. Just swapping out some parts for higher quality ones.
@@Beau.Burchell Thanks! im gettin mine and i would like to know...crankin the preamp and boosting the front end with a Ts9/sd-1 can be used at 1/10 on the Master Volume without goin deaf?
@@danieln2967 ya definitely.
What years/circuits on the JMP's?
I"m not exactly sure. They were not mine. They belong to the band The Bronx.
@@Beau.Burchell np. Love The Bronx
The 2nd jmp and 800.
800 by a landslide bud. Thicc tone for daysss
Your 800 definitely sounds beefier. Both your JMPs sounded thin comparatively. It’s interesting, because when I put my JMP next to my friend’s 800, it’s the opposite. My JMP has more low end and the top end is less brittle. Power tubes can make a huge difference too. I’m not sure what I have in mine, but I know some JMP’s have 6L6’s and some have EL34’s.
Ya it’s cool how all these amps sound different.
Please profile those for the kemper 😅
Thanks! I play those profiles a lot
Is a little difficult for me to conclude anything really useful, when the amps has been modded. I would have preferred if they was as close to stock as possible... But maybe it wasn't the purpose of this shoot out? Not critical, just curious... 😊👍
I would add that comparing any amp that old is somewhat of a wash because of all the variables and wear and tear. The point was that so many people were quick to choose their favorite without even hearing them.
JMP 2204 is awsome too.
What are the major differences in your JMP’s? Years? You mentioned the settings are wildly different?
they are both late 70s i believe. Same tubes. Probably just the tolerance of parts.
Bottom JMP is the best to my ears.
Scientific proof to support hanging onto multiple 2203s. Same goes for 1959s. How are you routing your guitar signal with the MW1 and KHE?
Guitar input to KHE. Tuner out to MW1. Tuner out of the mw1 to tuner. Another cool feature of the khe is the front input takes priority over the rear input. So if I unplug the front input. The rear input is connected to the reamp output of the mw1.
@@Beau.Burchell Cool & thanks! I have the ACS 8x4 incoming and will try a similar hookup for the DI and reamp.
I thought it was supposed to be the opposite, with the 800 more brittle?
I know the 800 has more voltage and it would seem to be true. 🤷
I liked the bottom jmp
top
800 wins.
What kind of guitar are you playing? It sounds like a toy
I like my 900 jmc
These are all literally the exact same circuit with same component values throughout, no? If that's so, then the differences are our imagination or your typical differences due to parts tolerances and knob-position differences. Would have been useful to open up each and confirm all the component values are the same, which should be pretty quick and easy.
totally.. I could have opened up the amps, like you suggest, but honestly, it's not really worth it when all of the comments will be negative and missing the point of the video. The main point I was hoping people would take away is to just use your ears. There isn't a magic amp model with the older amps, I've played plenty of bad sounding and great sounding Marshalls of the same model. They are all wildly different with different aging components like you mentioned. One of the JMP models had a newer mercury transformer which I thought would have made a larger impact on the sound, but I was surprised. Anyways, I love this stuff and could ramble on for ages. I appreciate you watching the video. I do a lot of this kind of thing on my twitch channel if you are into this kind of geeky content. :)
800, not even really all that close tbh.