Were there any evil Elves in Tolkien's legendarium?
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2022
- In this video, we'll talk about the concept of "evil Elves", and whether they truly existed in Tolkien's legendarium.
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Maeglin just wanted to be A Song of Ice and Fire character instead.
He would fit in in A song of ice and fire
Nah that would be Turin 👀
The thing about the evil elves is they did a remarkably good job of killing themselves off by the end of the 1st Age.
They were very much the victims of hubris. I wonder if there is something about Elven nature that they inherently harm themselves through acts of evil as well as their victims.
@@David_Fellner The Noldor Elves were certainly a proud bunch and it often worked against them but not so much the other Elves although there were exceptions. It was really the Fëanorians who led the Noldor down such a destructive path when Fëanor and his sons swore the Oath of Fëanor and committed numerous atrocities in the name of that oath. Most of the other Noldor followed him as he was king of the Noldor at that time and that led to most of them dying as well.
Evil in general is bad for one's lifespan in Tolkien's legendarium, the Black Numenoreans are almost completely gone by the time of the War of the Ring while their Faithful counterparts are diminished but still among the strongest of Sauron's foes, and of course the virtous Maia like Gandalf tend to outlive the likes of Saruman, Sauron, & the Balrogs.
"Yeet him from the walls of Gondolin" is my favorite phrase of the day, and I can't stop laughing.
What I got from the Silmarillion was that Elves don't just take to wearing "black hats" or line up outside the Angband recruiting office; but that all Elves have potentially fatal character flaws; and since they tend to be "more extra" than humans over just about everything, then they turn up the tragedy to levels that would leave Wagner and Shakespeare both in tears. I see it similar to how Star Trek portrays the different races. We're supposed to look up to the Vulcans because they are so cool, and logical with their high sophisticated culture; but they can be very aloof, arrogant, and even cruel, believing that they are superior to everyone. We're supposed to look down on the Klingons as slobbering, violent marauders; but they also have a strong sense of honor, family, history, and heroism. Thanks to DS9, even the Ferengi became interesting characters, and not just snivelling coin-clutchers. Back to Tolkien, I don't know when it happened, but at some poiint, I reached the conclusion that a Man becoming an Elf-Friend wouldn't be incredibly hard just because mere humans were so much weaker than Elves at almost everything; but that humans would have a hard time getting along with Elves because they were so different. Most Elves would likely see most humans as noisy annoying children who go around shouting, and breaking and changing things which ought to be left alone; who are too fragile to live long enough to become wise, and too stupid to even acknowledge their fragility and foolishness; and they probably wouldn't like the way we smell. Likewise, humans would likely see most Elves as arrogant, uncaring, and unwilling to help the "lesser" beings of Middle Earth, and seeing the Eldar as "privileged." Note that the only humans that the Eldar seem amenable to are the Dunedain, who are blood relations, or those who have sworn fealty in perpetuity, such as Hurin, and try to raise themselves up more like Elves.
I always viewed orcs as having two origins. The original orcs were corrupted elves, but once humans were created, Morgoth starting using them.
Presumably they can breed. Bolg is the son of Azog. So perhaps they were first created by corrupting elves who then went on to self propagate.
Also there’s half orcs and Uruk-Hai, which may be orcs created through the use of men or a breeding program between humans and orcs.
Morgoth would have tried to corrupt any elves he could. Noldor, Sindar, Keebler, … he didn’t care.
🤣🤣🤣
More like he would tried to corrupt anything exist
Is _that_ why Keebler cookies are so bland and tasteless..?
You forgot the Elves of the North under command of Dark Lord Santa
@@David_FellnerMorgoth's true greatest crime.
I'd argue that the evils committed by Feaonor, Eol, etc. were worse because they didn't serve Morgoth. Rather, it was their own selfish desires, rather than thraldom to a dark master. First time I read the Silmarillion (which is quite the chore), I tried so hard to empathise with Feanor, or at least understand his motives. In the end, however, he was the ultimate hypocrite, declaring Morgoth is greatest enemy, yet causing more suffering to the Children of Illuvetar than most of Morgoth's servants combined.
Love the use of “yeet” in a video about Lord of the Rings.
I'll never miss the opportunity for an appropriately placed yeet.
The most interesting thing about that last sentence regarding the War of the Last Alliance is that it suggests that there were Orcs who fought *against* Sauron. We know directly from the books via Shagrat and Gorbag that Orcs don't necessarily have blind loyalty to Sauron. It makes me wonder if that's where they're going with Adar in the show. I don't want to see Adar do a Marvel team-up with Arondir or something dumb like that, but exploring the moral grey area with Adar is interesting.
And honestly, it lines up with Tolkien's own beliefs. The reason he changed the origin story of Orcs a few times is because he wrestled with the idea of Orcs being irredeemably evil if they are also one of God's creatures, even if they're corrupted. When Adar says to Galadriel in the show "we are made of the sacred fire, same as you" or whatever it was, that was kind of a high point for me.
Very interesting point re that last sentence - I feel it was a very rare semantic/narrative oversight on Tolkien's part. It also suggests there were dwarves who fought for Sauron which I find quite bizarre.
@@keyboarddancers7751 I wouldn't say it's bizzarre in the slightest. While the Dwarven kingdoms we see most prominantly often display great virtue, they're far from the only Dwarves. And whag is the primary vice of the Dwarves as a people? Gold. I can very much at least see Dwarf mercenaries fighting in Sauron's forces for the right price, if not entire kingdoms to the East manipulated by promise of riches
@@keyboarddancers7751 You could look at it that way, and there is some validity to it (you could also reasonably say that it implies there were Ents who fought for Sauron, which is much more bizarre to me than Dwarves, which I don't think is unlikely at all), but you get into territory of interpreting what was or was not a mistake on Tolkien's part.
whoever Adar is , if you talk about the Amazon (shit)show, they will have a Marvel team-up with whoever the fuck the pulled out of their ass
I want to see Orcs that are, Ok a bit rough around the edges... but not 'raah booga booga booga murder and torture is fuuun' evil.
Maybe have 'evil' as their default because Morgoth, but show that they can if given a chance, be something else. Y'know, as way t oshow that 'just because your family and where you were born will be taken that your'ea bigoted jerk doesn't mean you HAVE to be.'
I really like that the description of the Wars of the Last Alliance implies that there orcs who fought against Sauron. It’s weird that this isn’t brought up more in the discourse over non evil orcs
I believe the phrase "All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only." does not include the orcs just because it would not sound right phonetically if it was "save the Elves and Orcs only".
I don't know, it looks too weird to me to think that Tolkien imagined orcs fighting for Good or side by side with elves (they hated each other beyond redemption).
Just my two cents.
I cant imagine orcs fighting side by side with elves and men, but I can imagine bands of orcs rebelling against Sauron and refusing to fight, therefore going into conflict with the loyals hosts of Sauron ,but not specifically allied with the elves and men....
I don't believe orcs nor trolls fought on the side of the Last Alliance, I actually don't think they would even be capable of defying Sauron.
@@paulemge9156 Theyre certainly capable of ignoring him. There is a conversation between 2 Mordor Orcs along the lines of "We should leave Sauron's army with our soldiers, and set up our own little band of outlaws. Things were so much better before there was a Dark Lord" etc etc. Possibly Gorbag and Shagrat's conversation
@@glennross85
Orcs fight side by side with men several times in the LOTR trilogy. On Sauron's side, but together in the same battles.
I think that a distinction can be made between being evil and serving evil. Serving evil, as in serving a dark lord such as Melkor or Sauron, was something that we don't see elves do willingly, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have deep moral failures. It's like how a British soldier in WW2 could have had no love in his heart for Hitler or the Nazis while still being a thief, a rapist, or a murderer.
Unpopular opinion, but Maedhros is my favorite character in the entire legendarium specifically *because* of his moral ambiguity. He strikes me as someone who deep down really wants to do the right thing but can't always do so due to being bound by an evil oath.
Same here
An oath he took willingly, remember.
@@MrKbonez rage at the death of Finwë would blind most
I don't think that is such an unpopular opinion, or at least shouldn't be. Tolkien was great at writing flawed characters; he just didn't live long enough to fully expand upon all of them. But some of them, he did. I'm about halfway through reading The Children of Húrin and am amazed at how much deeper some of its characters are than The Silmarillion let on. Not just Túrin himself (although, very much Túrin himself) but also side characters like Mîm and Saeros who barely had a role in the Quenta Silmarillion chapter. Anyway, my point is that Maedhros occupies a similar position as a complex character who makes you both love and hate him, and is only glossed over in the text but clearly played a large role in the setting.
@@MrKbonez - Yup. You feel for the guy, you really do - but then you remember that. Tolkien just couldn't help but create interesting characters.
A point I want to bring up is with Eol. He wasn't influenced by Morgoth to get the selfish idea in his head to put a spell on and kidnap his wife.
Maeglin, Eol, Feanor, Curufin and Celegorm
Feanor did nothing wrong.
@@drakoloreseeker5112 kek
@@drakoloreseeker5112 kiling Telarin ???
@@matetafra5238 justified and necessary to attempt to remove Melkor from power in middle earth and reclaim the single most powerful magic artifacts from his posession.
I often wonder. If Tolkien's original idea for the creation of Orcs is correct, then do the Orcs also possess the longevity of the Elves-i.e. they live forever unless slain by weapon or mischance? Also, if Orcs die, then where do their fëa go? In fact, do they even have fëa?
Assuming they are judged by Mandos like normal Elves but will be left to wait for the 2nd Song for new bodies. Considering Tolkien was religious, he probably had the Orcs reflect and repent for ages in the Halls of Mandos.
@@melkhiordarkfell4354
That sounds about right.
If they are given new bodies they will mostly use them to do harm.
Very good question to which even Tolkien himself had no answer to and struggled with until he died. :D
I think it is in one of his letters Tolkien wrote that orcs actually had a shorter lifespan them men, even after accounting for their violent tendencies and use in the various wars of the 1st 3 Ages. It's one of the reasons Tolkien wanted to change the origins of the orcs to something other than having been corrupted from elves as he thought that should have been beyond even the power of Melkor. Tolkien was also wrestling with whether or not orcs had fëa because why would Eru Ilúvatar give the orcs fëa?
@@istari0
Bolg is the one orc where we have some idea of his lifespan, and he lived a lot longer than an ordinary man or a hobbit.
I really thought the whole point of Tolkien's elves was that they'd already been offered grace by Eru Iluvatar. They can go to the Undying Lands any time they want; they just can't come back.
No time limit was set for the offer.
Eol is interesting. While undoubtable incredibly sinister, he lacks the pathological ambition seen in the other villains of the legendarium, including his son Maeglin. Indeed, ambition is what sets Maeglin apart from Eol. While Eol is highly possessive of what is already his, Maeglin has an insatiable desire for what is not yet his. Yet these tendencies lead father and son down the same path and both meet a common end.
That was a fun video. Thank you for clearing things up.
Let’s not forget that Galadriel was like “ew, my uncle & cousins just massacred a bunch of elves. BUT, I really want my own kingdom, so I’ll overlook it and go along with them.”
Turgon cost many thousands of his own people either death or life as slaves in Angband. He was so full of himself that he ignored Ulmo's warning that the Curse of Mandos was soon to be fulfilled. He thought he knew more than a Vala. If a god tells you to jump, your response should be "how high?"
Great video!
What actually is shown about evil elves in lord of the rings that despite their seemingly perfect nature relativley to humans, elves still have human nature and feelings, which may also cause them to choose evil. according to this video , the closest to dark elves in Arda are spirits of elves that avoided the afterlife, while the living versions of evil elves are either elves that got caught in a dramatic tragedy or broken souls that had no choice. This makes dark elves of other fantasy lores, possiblly lores that were inspired or copied Tolkeins work, more of orcs than actual elves. The closest to a dark elves realm in middle earth was EO's household , were the servants of this elven lord followed his weird ways and probably had similar personalities to their master. since EO hated light and used to live in a dark enchanted forest, if he had an elven host there, than they were peculiar folk of Sindari and maybe other elves that didn't had a connection to Eru and Valinor, and were envyius of their Noldor kin. So there you have it, if Eo was a lord with a host of elves, they were a group of dark elves living in a dark elves manor just like dark elves that appear in fantasy lore such as Denguons and Dragons
I always figured that the drow in Greyhawk are, by now, tieflings. Elf-demon hybrids. Hence why they're so ridiculously overpowered if they stay in the Underdark.
Eol was a nasty piece of work.
Eol is perhaps the most sinister of the elves in terms of character, but in terms of deeds he is far eclipsed by the feanorians.
Sure. Caranthir, Curufin, Feanor, Eol, Maeglin, etc. They did things for their own gain that they knew were wrong, and didn't really care who was hurt thereby. That's evil to me.
I'm gonna quote another famous fantasy series: "Besides the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. We've all got both light and dark inside of us. What matters is the part we choose to act on." Or, to put it bluntly, just because you don't serve the enemy, it doesn't mean you're a good guy. Feanor was definitely evil. Or let's look at real life. In World War II, we couldn't have beaten Hitler without Stalin, and Stalin was arguably one of the most evil human beings to ever live.
I think that no elves sided with sauron or morgoth but were still not all good. The way elves treated dwarves is a clear example of them not being wholly good
By and large the Noldor got a long fine with Dwarves. It was the Sindar who did not, which dates back to the 1st Age when a dispute over the Nauglamír and the Silmaril that Beren and Lúthien got from Morgoth led to the slaying of King Thingol of Doriath and the subsequent sacking of Menegroth by a dwarvish army from Nogrod.
@@istari0 i may be remembering wrong but i also think i remember hearing or reading it somewhere that when the elves and dwarves first came into contact, before the dwarves had built their first settlements and created any civilisations, the elves used to hunt the dwarves for sport like they were wild animals. Not sure how accurate that is though
@@somethingfromnothing8428 That's true; I had forgotten about it.
The elf King of Mirkwood almost goes to war for treasure lol
And the rohirrim and gondor hunt the wildmen like animals who help lead the rohirrim on a short cut to minas tirith. All the “heros” of lotr are only really the hero’s of their own story. I really wish the rings of power had explored what gondor and rohan had done to make the easterlings of haradrim side with sauron in the first place. I think rings of power would have been better if it explored the possible motives of the different races. The lotr and hobbit books explores the ideas that the “good” races arent really that good
It’s a lot harder to choose to serve the devil when you can remember watching him get his ass kicked.
“Were there evil elves?”
Yeah his name was Faenor
Few dwarves fought on either side but the kin of Durin the Deathless fought on the side of elves and men!
Interesting to think about 🧝♂️
Dior? J'adore.
It’s important you pointed out that Tolkien says in Nature of Middle Earth that no elf ever served Morgoth or Sauron. Elves are not all good but none are corruptible enough to serve evil directly like dwarves, men and beasts. I believe Tolkien challenged his own idea of the elf / orc dynamic due to the (body and soul) Hroa and Fea of elves were inevitably inseparable and the Hroa incorruptible. Meaning Orcs don’t have souls and we’re not made from elves but in mockery of elves. Adar is a cool idea and well executed Tolkien “fan” character but not a character Tolkien would have written.
When I saw star wars episode 2 and then 3, both times I just kept thinking.....Anakin is Feanor in a Sci fi setting.
So that last bit about every race other than elves fighting on both sides... does that mean there were orcs fighting with the Last Alliance? Or Ents fighting for Sauron?
Not ever seen any evidence of that, interesting idea but I do not think it possible due to the base nature of the two groups. Ents are too much tied to the earth and nature to work for Morgoth or Sauron I should think and Orcs without their masters turn inward and fight themselves etc. Interesting idea none the less.
I think when it was said that "every race other than Elves" fought on both sides, the word "race" was meant to refer to the Children of Ilúvatar, which only includes Elves, Men, and Dwarves. Agreeing with coffee's statement, I think Ents and Orcs have too many specific restrictions for it to make sense that any of them would switch sides. There could very well have been Orcs fighting each other during that time, but it would have been regional struggles for control and not on behalf of the Last Alliance. For a real world comparison of the Orc-infighting, there could be Nazi or KKK splinter groups who fight each other, but it wouldn't be because the dissenting group wants to defend Jews or non-white people, but simply because they are trying to take control of their respective parties for personal gain.
Eol was evil as was his son Maeglin. Faenor had an evil streak as well I would say
Yes.
Feanor.
I don't mind the parts where they are actually imaginative.
Kinda sad you didn't mention how Eol forged the twin meteorite swords but i guess it didn't really fit in the video, still when do you get chances to mention Eol
Thingol, Eöl, Maeglin, arguably Fingolfin during the kinslaying, Gwindor as an escaped slave in Nargothrond, Saeros, Thranduil when he captured the dwarves and kept them in prison. Of course Fëanor and his sons goes without saying.
Did any elf directly and willingly serve in Morgoth's armies and fight on the side of evil? No (apart from one version where Maeglin was promised this but he probably would not have received it but he agreed to it at least.) But plenty of elves did evil stuff.
How DARE you speak such blasphemy of High King Fingolfin! LOL He definitely did bad things during the kinslaying but I thought it was because he thought the Teleri attacked the Noldor first. So it wasn’t malice on his part but a LARGE misunderstanding. The other ones for sure did what could be considered evil. Especially Eol & Maeglin. Maeglin really sucks.
@@tdubya75 Yeah, Fingolfin did not seem to have any evil motive.
Even the decision of Maedhros to give the kingship to him was in no way initiated by Fingolfin.
So I guess I'll withdraw the claim.
@@psevdhome Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like an ass. If after reading the book (as you obviously have) and that’s your impression of him, who am I to argue? He was my favorite elf so I just wanted to say something funny.
@@tdubya75 You didin't sound like an ass. I know it was humour. I just considered the idea, and I don't think Fingolfin was actively a bad guy for participating.
He is a pretty blameless and courageous character.
People see his duel as bravery and badassery, which it most definitely is, but I also see it as selfish desperation to go into a fight he cannot win. But when he does so he at least stands on his two feet.
The line about his death is so good. "His death was so sad, that no elf made a song of it, and Morgoth's defeat so shamful that no orc made a boast." Obviously that's not Tolkien's words but he said something like that.
@@psevdhome I can agree with that. I always thought his fight with Morgoth was a result of desperation and losing all hope so he basically said “f#@k it” and wanted Morgoth to suffer a little bit at least. But that could definitely be seen as selfish.
thank you for pointing out that Tolkien made the elves ahve the same potential for evil and wickedness and petty behavior as anyone else without the need for invokign the supernatural.
Yes, but never pledged their loyalty to Morgoth or Sauron. Neither dark lord saw them as worth pursuing.,
It is hard to corrupt elves but it is by no means not impossible.
Double negative. Intentional? Am I being slow?
I like the name btw. Fellow pilgrim here. Fuck eugenics.
Feanor did nothing wrong. Man's gotta protect his bling.
LOL
It's true that the Silmarillion makes Elves much more complex, but I'd be wary of overcorrecting one's perception - it deals with the very worst Elves and the very best Men, among others.
The Elves overall are still our elder, greater siblings that ennobled the Men that encountered them in the first place (from the Avari to Finrod to the Elves assisting Numenor). Our advantage is in our current dominion over the world as a species, and our freedom through death and ultimately our guaranteed participation in the Second Music.
That you can count the amount of times Elves killed Elves very quickly is a testament to their, by default, unfallen nature and inclination towards harmony and peace, and their loyalty towards Eru.
Trying to count how many times Men (all fallen since the early Men submitted to Morgoth) kill other Men would be a futile affair.
Spoken like a true elf sympathiser. You are a disgrace to the human race.
Yes, this. Elves are not just like people, theyre actually our moral superiors by default inclination, which if you think about it makes evil elves even more culpable when they fall.
i would not mention Thingol when talking about "evil" elves.
otherwise, good video
Well technically everything that went wrong in middle earth was from the direct incompetence of eru illuvatar and his proliferation in the the void
The evil elves were in the Vault of the Drow, everyone knows that
Elves used to hunt petty dwarves.
The closest thing Tolkien's world has to pure evil elves are Maeglin, and Eöl who was mostly just a pissy edgelord who didn't like the sun. Then there were Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir who were just assholes, but they, like their brothers and father, would likely have never caused so much death and misery if Morgoth had just kept his grubby hands to himself.
I wouldn't call Feanor evil. He was overcome with grief (death of his father) and rage (theft of his silmarils). I also wouldn't call him pure good, he was the original elf edgelord, but his life was never easy
Feel free to look at the Silmarillion.
Ëol, Curufin, Celegorm, Maeglin, arguably Fëanor
I think per definition of the LOTR universe: no there were no evil elves. as none were aligned with Morgoth or Sauron ever. where there and elves? yes.
Elves are easily swayed by magic, good or evil.
yeah, they called themselves the Teleri
Tolkien’s great flaw as a writer is that he states one thing but shows another. “Thingol was greatest in wisdom amongst all the elves of middle Earth”. Thingol then acts stupidly time and again.
Feanor was right!!!
"Some reviewers have called the whole thing simple-minded, just a plain fight between Good and Evil, with all the good just good, and the bad just bad. Pardonable, perhaps (though at least
Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry, and with only a fragment to read, and, of course, without the earlier written but unpublished Elvish histories.
But the Elves are not wholly good or in the right. Not so much because they had flirted with Sauron; as because with or without his assistance they were 'embalmers'. They wanted to have their cake and eat it: to live in the mortal historical Middle-earth because they had become fond of it (and perhaps because they there had the advantages of a superior caste), and so tried to stop its change and history, stop its growth, keep it as a pleasaunce, even largely a desert, where they could be 'artists' - and they were overburdened with sadness and nostalgic regret "
- Letters 154 (To Naomi Mitchison)
Faenor and his sons.
*laughs in Fëanor and his sons*
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Elder Scrolls did a great job of making it's races realistic instead of having monolithic alignments. There are good dark elves and evil high elves and vice versa.
*cough* Feanor *cough*
But this was the main difference between elves and humans. Elves never colaborated out of free will with Sauron or Morgoth unless they where tortured, forced and broken. In rings of power good and evil are not clearly defined. It is all a mush, and not even grey characters are defined nor are their motivations ade clear.
YES: FEANOR
AND EOL
feanor is right there
Very small elfs evil,they use mind control waves....
Of course there were, they're called Orcs.
Eorl ?
Amazon’s Rings of Power pretty much displays the Elves to be evil. Crazy adaptation
There is literal pr0n over in ArchiveOfOurOwn which I hold to be more-canon than Rangs Of Power.
Here's the thing. When it says that no Elves willingly served Sauron, we have to remember that the writings we have in the Legendarium are either from Elves, or Men who were in sympathy with Elves, or Hobbits who saw Elves as practically holy. Hardly unbiased sources
If that were the case then the awful acts of the Fëanorians would be unknown.
@@istari0 Silmarillion is written by ani-Feanor propaganda writers, thats why we know about it.
@@wojta610cz5 Yep
The Legendarium is Eru propaganda.
They're called orcs LOL
Oh hell yeah there were evil elves. Quite a number of the First Age elves are rat bastards. Faenor is, at best, utterly selfish and it does downhill from there. His sons are rough, too.
Eol, Meaglin, Curufin, Feanor was definitely a pretty awful person as well
I admit Feanor was a bad elf but not the worst, his sons Celegorm and Curufin were slightly worse and Turgons brother in law was the absolute worst
Feanor wasn't evil. He was Eru's reincarnation in Elf form. Pure creation! His fall wasn't because of his evil nature but the Valar's lack of reaction against evil.
If he wouldn't rush to the Middle Earth in such anger, then the Elves would live in Aman and the Middle Earth and the Mankind would forever be Morgoth's domain.
His sons and kin contained Morgoth's influence from spreading the World, and Noldor's reckoning was the major reason for Valar's to help the Middle Earth.
Sorry but this is an absolutely horrible reading 😅
How does that in any way defend his absolutely purely malicious acts? Most completely indefensible of which being the burning of the ships at Losgar. There was no reason to do that other than pure petty spite. And that's not even going into how mich of absolute bastards Curufin and Celegorm were. You mean to tell me them kidnapping Luthien was in any way related to halting Morgoth's influence? Or that abandoning literal children Eluréd and Elurín to die was somehow for the greater good?
In reality Fëanor is Tolkien's ultimate example of the follies in attachment to creations, as opposed to creating for creation's sake. This was a likewise a folly of Aulë albeit to a lesser extent, whom is likely where it inherited it from due to the Noldor's connection to him. And ultimately it's the greatest folly of Morgoth too.
Tolkien loved the idea of "subcreation" as he called it. That by creating you are also acting as a tool through which God can create through. Now I'm not religious myself but it's a beautiful idea and very important to understanding Tolkien's work. Fëanor, Auleë and especially Morgoth, as well as many many more throughout the legendarium, fall into the trap of wanting to become creators, rather than subcreators. To have the thing they create be theirs and theirs alone, rather than a part of the greater world. This, according to Tolkien, is their greatest flaw.
@@lizardlegend42 what you call malicious acts were the horrible acts of a rightful rebellion. It was quite obvious that Valar's lack of action brought destruction to Arda and let evil prevail. Feanor understood the nature of evil and how to fight it. He was wiser than Valar. He had no choice but to rebel, and had to kinslay to break free from Valar. He made his choice, lost everything but his actions led the way to the defeat of Morgoth.
This makes no sense. To begin with, Eru Ilúvatar never died so he could not be reincarnated. Nor did he take the form of any being on Arda; after creating the world he seldom intervened in it directly. Fëanor's first action upon becoming high king of the Noldor was lead them in a foolish, short-sighted rebellion seeking revenge upon Morgoth and the recovery of the Silmarils. He did not think of the well-being of the people he was supposed to lead. The Valar warned Fëanor that his actions were going to lead to disaster but they did not prevent the Noldor from leaving of their own accord. Fëanor could have chosen to lead his host to Middle-Earth via the Helcaraxë instead he deliberately chose to steal the ships of the Teleri and then kill them when they resisted.
Even as he lay dying from the wounds he received from combat with the balrog Gothmog and he had a moment of foresight and saw that the Noldor could never defeat Morgoth, his reaction was to have his sons swear again the Oath of Fëanor. Fëanor's actions, both direct and indirect, led to the deaths of most of the Noldor in the ensuing centuries. When the Host of the Valar came to Beleriand to fight Morgoth, it wasn't at the request of the Noldor. When Eärendil and Elwing came to Valinor to ask for aid, they did so as representatives of all the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth and indeed their ancestors included members from all 3 main groups of Elves (Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri) and all 3 houses of the Edain.
In pretty much any story that doesn't have a being like Morgoth in it, Fëanor is your chief antagonist. Someone like him in our world would be considered a war criminal. Fëanor was absolutely evil.
@@istari0 without the greatest of Elves, Feanor, Morgoth would still rule the middle earth and mankind while Valar, Maiar and Elves enjoy the privileges of the West.
Feanor wast indifferent to the suffering of the world. He sacrificed himself, his sons, his people and most of all his soul for the future generations and the well being of the mode Earth. He was a man of action, a creative genius only equalled by Eru. The reincarnation of Eru, may he rest in peace.
@@bastadimasta Just because you keep repeating the same nonsense doesn't make it true. What you are saying contradicts what Tolkien actually wrote. Fëanor cared about no one but himself and his sons as is well described in The Silmarillion. If he was actually the catalyst for the intervention of the Valar, it would have happened much earlier.
The wights were NOT elves, they were the ghosts of men that died fighting for Angmar.
The wood elves treated the dwarves badly.
Most of them were not really good according to my morals. Almost all the sons of Fëanor were evil, except Maedhros. Fëanor was evil. Eol was evil. Many of the Noldor in Beleriand were haughty and lusted for power and riches. The non-Avari never bended under any dark lord however.
They were all corrupted by Melkor. No one is inheretly "evil" in this lore. With the exception of the original one, Melkor.
@@Henrique-wy6cv Yes, indirectly they were corrupted by Morgoth.
😑 , Y`ALL The Golum DIDN`T , so who do you think y`all are exactly?
spoiler alert: Yes
Evil elves yes they are orcs
Feanor did nothing wrong!
Amongst the things that I especially enjoyed about the much maligned Rings of Power was how twattish and dickish (to keep things balanced) so many of the elves were. Galadriel always banging on self righteously, endlessly demanding everyone support her plans to kill whatever. Other elves pratting about, lying to, using, trying to control all the people who they saw as "lesser than", which was everyone.
Do elves have souls? Who cares! They certainly have great big bosomy Egos.
That was done really well.
As was Adar. He seemed always exhausted, as one would imagine he would be.
Joseph Mawle and Charlie Vickers had the most fun and best written characters, and they so acted their little socks off that a good time was had by all. Bless 'em.
Adar was (imo) the best and maybe the only good character (i kind of like Sauron as well) from the rings of powers. He was the only one i wanted more from
Eddit: i like to think Adar himself refuses Sauron but he loves the Orcs so much that he's forced to act as one of Saurons subordinats
this is why the ring of power sucks. It centers around Galadriel. they wanted a woke tv series, and Galadriel would be perfect, but then screwed up her character, and turn her into a male of her family and made her stupid. She was suppose to be the wisest of all elves. Her brother and cousins went questing and did stupid things. SHe did not. Of the elves of her generation, in her family, she is the only one alive, and it is for reasons. (atleast from her generation that didn't leave the west)
You don't know what she did.
90 % off all elfs are evil
No
Feanor is not evil. Not only his actions saves all elves, dwarves and the Edain in Middle earth, but the 1st kingslaying is also not his fault. Teleri started with the violence. Not saying the reaction was justified, but if the Teleri would just lend the ships to Noldor, nothing would have happend. They could always built more ships.
Why can't I skip this boring eye issue advert.