What Happened to the Nancy Drew Fan Base?
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Last year HeR Interactive announced the next game in the Nancy Drew PC Games series, and fans were ecstatic. But now, just a year later, that excitement has turned to bitterness. I would like to explore why I think that happened and what the Nancy Drew fan base needs to know about the gaming industry.
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#nancydrew #nancydrewpcgames #herinteractive #mysteryofthesevenkeys #gamingindustry #videogames - Ігри
Thank you all so much for the support on this video guys! This was my first solo Nancy video and it's been amazing to see how the community has responded!
With that said, we're seeing some concern about certain comments being deleted. We have never and will never delete comments unless they are hateful or harassing other commenters, and no comments from this video have been deleted by us. Also, we both have full time jobs outside of UA-cam, so we aren't able to keep track of every comment as they are posted. Our comment moderation is set to basic (only holds potentially inappropriate comments). We want our comment section to be an open forum for civil discussion, no matter your stance on this topic. As long as you keep the conversation civil, we're happy you're here.
Thank you for opening my eyes and helping me see beyond my own frustrations. As a faithful ND gamer for 26 years since SCK came out when I was 12, I am grateful to see things from a human perspective and learn how much pressure those developers face.
I am cautiously hopeful for the next game, but I will admit Midnight In Salem cost a lost of trust from the fandom for HeR Interactive. For me personally, and for everyone I know who's played the games with me. Obviously the game's release will be what sways everyone's stances now, but I hope the studio isn't put down when they're clearly trying hard for Mystery of the Seven Keys. Great video!
THANK YOU! The Clue Crew is beyond lucky. Incredible, nostalgic games we can always go back to? Soundtracks that give us goosebumps every time we put them on? A super tight-knit community of people who all grew up loving Nancy? We were spoiled for years and years, and even now, we're still so much better off than most. Does that exempt HER from all scrutiny? Of course not! The radio silence stunk, and I was one of the voices speaking out against it. But now? We have confirmation of a new game coming out this year, we have contests, we have behind the scenes looks, we have CONTACT! And that's more than a lot of indie companies give. Can you point at some that give more/better? Sure, and I can point to a dozen who give less/worse.
All feelings are valid, but I personally just do nottttt understand. HER doesn't deserve the toxicity. The same people criticizing them for being too quiet now complain about too many sneak peaks, or too many updates that "aren't the release date", or too many puzzles that are somehow "insulting." They've done wrong in the past, but this is not it.
Exactly! It seems like people think we’re against being critical, but we’re not. I was VERY displeased with the build-up of MID as well as the final product. I also think it was a huge mistake to start all of this on April 1 leaving people confused. It’s also a bummer that some of the puzzles had errors, but is that worth being sent a death threat like one of the devs said happened to her? Hell. No.
There’s being skeptical and then there’s being cynical.
Also a good reminder that feelings are not facts! Sure, your own negative feelings are valid to you but that doesn’t mean others have to sympathize or agree with you.
....ah, so the damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh? I'm so glad I was just a person that played the games and looked at walkthroughs if I got stuck but I never talked to people about Nancy Drew. I'd hate to be like that, entitled and just wanted to complain about anything.
Definitely very well said. I never played many games outside of ND, and I wasn’t really in the community when HeR was pumping out 2 games a year, but ND was a big part of my childhood. That could probably be said for a lot of other fans. But whenever I hear about other games I realize how lucky this fandom is to have gotten as many games as we have in such a short time frame.
I’m also shocked with how much they’ve revealed about the new game. We may not have an official trailer or release date, but we HAVE gotten confirmation it’ll come out this year, along with characters and game environments. HeR absolutely did not have to do any of this, but they did, and I’m incredibly grateful for that. I’m not a big fan of change either, but if all these changes mean that HeR will stay open and we’ll still get Nancy Drew games, I’m all for it.
Also, the fact that HeR has taken the time to make personal connections with us is amazing, most companies would never try to do something like that.
@@CaseyNickerson-gn2zi
HER helps us get to know the team behind KEY: Why should we care?? Gimme the release date!
HER releases new aspect of KEY: They’re not telling us ANYTHING!! Gimme the release date!
@@Little1Cave Exactly. I feel like people who comment stuff like that either don’t realize or don’t know how generous HeR has been. Like obviously we all want the release date, but they aren’t allowed to give that information out yet, and they might not have settled on one. And I can’t imagine how made some people would be if they announced a date and then had to change it like with MID.
@@CaseyNickerson-gn2ziThat’s exactly how I felt about it. Do people WANT a scenario where a release date is announced and might have to be delayed due to unforeseen circumstances? It seems like they’re making it so that, whatever HER does, it’s somehow a bad thing. And that’s extremely unfair.
I follow game developers and have learned a LOT about the industry and how game dev is managed. The fact that one person thinks that hype for a game should only be done AFTER the release date is confirmed/released, doesn’t know how actual game marketing works.
thank you SO MUCH for speaking up about this. the entitlement in these grown adults has been INSANE. be happy that we're getting anything at all, they dont have to keep making games period! if youre that bitter toward them, dont play the game, dont engage! gratitude and patience cost zeeeero dollars. i've been appalled by some of the comments i read online from so called "fans", they hardly sound like fans at all and its been hard to call myself one at the risk of looking like one of them. i'm glad you made a video and i didnt because you were a lot nicer about it than i would be.
For me personally, my ire was roused by Penny Milliken’s corporate big wig business practices. Her firing the entire game staff, outsourcing to a company with no history or experience with Nancy Drew games (why take over a company if you’re just going to make another company do your work for you?), using Wall Street-esque corporate privacy wall effectively shutting out a fan base who were practically side by side with the developers since the beginning.
I believe that the failure and consequent public humiliation of Midnight in Salem is punishment enough for the company, seeing as Penny Milliken has apparently swallowed that bitter dose of reality and has made efforts to mend the fence with the Herinteractive fan base, even if some of the newsletters sound more like they’re talking to corporate investors than the everyday people that make up their customer base. I am willing to give this next game a chance, and hopefully they won’t squander this opportunity to make their way into our good graces again.
@theobsessor11294 that's really well put.
@@theobsessor11294 while i agree that business model isnt ideal, the one we had before wasnt sustainable either, and none of that should be taken out of the employees under her by spreading as much negativity has been spread. people continue to take their frustrations out on the marketing team and the developers who are doing what they can at the only pace they can work with. even with the announcement today, theres still so many adult tantrums on social media because it isnt what these 30 something year old women want. and even with all the complaints, theyre still going to play the game and will still complain that it wasnt the same as their favorite from 15 years ago.
Yet you're coming off as bitter about other people being bitter. Funny that. No, I'm not one of those fans attacking HER or anything, I just really dislike hypocrisy. For me, I suffer severe depression and the ND games are the only games I can still find the motivation/energy to play, so it does suck that the company felt the need to make these unnecessary changes thay cause the games to take so much longer to make and release. I can only imagine that there're other fans who greatly look forward to these games that may end up not being around by the time a new game is released. I know society has become more and more selfish and successful people don't like to admit that they wouldn't have the success they do if it weren't for people buying what they're selling, but the company wouldn't continue to exist if it weren't for the fans. No, that doesn't excuse being rude to the company/their employees, but it's absolutely understandable for people to grow frustrated when the games take longer and longer to produce, which is the company's own fault for making unnecessary changes.
Is it entitlement when they’re customers purchasing a product?
A product that was previously (with minimal communication) delayed for FOUR years and a fragment of the quality seen before the mass layoffs and outsourcing… with a secretive price increase for the digital download as a cherry on top (no steam or physical release dates announced either, mum’s the word on just how much more those options could cost as well)
TLDR; Allegedly turning over a new leaf doesn’t help that the entire tree was effectively rotted and uprooted
I will say that I've noticed that over the years, a ton of fans have turned into people that are gripping about the good old days and how they just want everything to go back to how they were years ago and it's getting really old to see them complaining about the new games because of what basically amounts to, change. They don't like the new voice actress, going as far as to call her emotionless and AI generated (the biggest insult) and complain about how they want the new graphics back. Look, I think the character models are uncanny and creepy, especially in Midnight in Salem where Deidre looked down on you from the top of the stairs with death in her eyes but in the newest game, it honestly looks way better. Sure, the eyebrow bone movements are still off buuuut definitely better. The new VA is perfectly fine, no one could've reached the expectations for a new Nancy, let's be honest, and nostalgia definitely are affecting us because we think of her as better but the old VA wasn't exactly really the most emotional either.
I think it's perfectly fine to be critical but I see people saying they should've hired someone better instead of letting the new one improve or get into the role and that they should just go back to how things were. They'd rather regress than give any advice focused on improving what's there and it's really annoying to see.
(...yeah don't get me started on how much people complained about how long the games took to make, maaaan, fan entitlement really makes me sad.)
Great video! And I agree, HeR Interactive could probably do without the extra pressure from the fans demanding more and more info on the new game. Maybe it's easier for me because I'm a casual fan of the series and really just like watching people play the games, but patience is a good virtue
Honestly this was a great reminder for myself and my fellow sleuths to hear. As much as I would absolutely love to know a release date and see a trailer, I am grateful that a new game is in development. Period. I appreciate that HER is taking their time to make this a good game. At least it has been confirmed that it will be released sometime this year, so we can hold on to that. 🤗
HER tried to make the series mainstream and scuttled it as a result. Our fanbase has always been niche.
I've been saying stuff like this for a while and shared this on my Tumblr. I see a lot of negative posts from the fandkm there and I've had to make a few of my own being like "hey we're actually really lucky to even get another game with how the industry is" because indie developers do not have it easy.
Been making posts of the like as well. Especially on Facebook and Instagram.
Not to mention that in March of 2020, a few years after MID, we had a HUGE pandemic that affected even the biggest of game studios. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that it affected KEY’s development as well.
It would suck if they said they had a new game planned, but then the company went under, resulting in KEY being lost forever. HER has been very careful and very smart post-MID.
it released today! and i bought it immediately. Haven't played very much, maybe an hour or two but already i really like it. graphics are really good, story is interesting, lots of characters and locations, fair amount of puzzles and good ones, UI seems very streamlined, and they fixed most of the problems MID had. I support the company and will continue to. I'd encourage people to get this game, its good!
honestly thank you for reminding me to be grateful for the games we have in the ND community. fingers crossed the new one will be another favorite.
This is what I have been trying to say for years yet constantly been shut down by some of the fans. I have always said that the fans of the nancy games fandom has been way too spoiled for way too long. Releasing two games in a year is not easy. The work that goes into that is probably incredibly stressful. We can see from the nancy games itself when some games suffer due to this so I am in the minority of saying I am glad that we aren't doing two games in a row anymore. I personally do not mind waiting for a game if it turns out to be good and from what I have seen from KEY, I think it's gonna be pretty good. I appreciate what HER is doing and trying to do to stay afloat. Glad you made this video! You couldn't have said it better honestly. You also managed to be nice about it. I would have cursed a lot more lol
I’m honestly glad there aren’t two a year either. More time to develop better games, plus I’m an adult with other interests now. Having two games a year was nice as a kid, but I have a life now where Nancy Drew isn’t my only game obsession. ❤
@@Little1Cave I didn't grow up with the ND games but I do agree. I have other games I would be interested in then just Nancy and just as you said, HER would have more time to develop the games and improve on it then releasing two games a year where one isn't all that great
I appreciate the thoughtful video, but I think there's a lot more to the problem than people being upset about less frequent games. From the perspective of one lifer, I don't care about Lani or two games a year. Lani violated her NDA and as far as churning out two games a year goes, maybe that's why they were losing money and maybe they should have shifted focus to longer, more in depth, less frequent games a long time before they decided to do so.
Herinteractive lost my trust when they decided to blame all of MID's problems on switching to Unity. The old in-house team knew how to use it even though Her claimed the switch was why they were all let go. I'm sure the transition wasn't easy as everything they already had was made for a clunky old engine that, based on what those former team members have said, should have been changed long before it was - but that wasn't why MID sucked. It sucked because the CEO decided to spend money on a mobile app that didn't have an audience (as it was for younger kids than ND fans) and didn't even teach any coding as it claimed. It lacked substance, as has everything Her has said or done in the last decade. So MID was delayed and outsourced for cheap. Interesting you would bring up the example of Cyberpunk when those devs acknowledged, apologized for, and fixed the technical problems and Her couldn't be bothered to do any of the above. This is when I stopped following Her on social media because any time there was criticism about MID, their reaction was just "Unity hard, internet mean!!" They were preying upon fans' lack of understanding about what Unity is and how common it is to cover up for their own mismanagement. Now you have a decent portion of the fanbase that STILL thinks Unity equals bad graphics and stuttering.
During those in between years, you did still have a some people missing the two games a year, but I'm quite sure the vast majority of us realized those days are over. Discussions were just "Hmm, I wonder if they'll ever make another game or if they'll eventually just fold." Nobody was holding their breath or anything. The April 2023 marketing campaign kicked off and I expected what was coming, and have unfortunately been proven right. Just the fact that they started it on April Fools Day, knowing there is a trust and goodwill issue, shows they haven't learned anything. I find it pretty rich to be asked to give them grace when they refuse to acknowledge they've come to a place of needing it. And as someone who does play lots of other games, it IS unusual to play for hype over a year out from releasing a game. It IS unusual to act like it's a big deal to reveal your desktop icon. I don't take it as a good sign or a gesture of good faith that Her is doing that - quite the opposite really. After years of crickets, Her should have learned from their mistakes with MID and not even have announced a game until they had information of substance to share. Over a year later and there's not even a plot. It smacks of wanting to see if we'll all still come when they whistle, and I'm a customer, not a dog. If they'd started the whole thing with 6 months to release, it would have been a great campaign.
I sympathize with a lot of issues facing Herinteractive from the fan base - particularly that so many are vocal about wanting to hold onto P&C, which IMO holds the franchise back, and also that there are still loud and frequent cries about going back to the old engine - but that's a problem of Her's own making with the aforementioned scapegoating of Unity. Fans are pretty much evenly split as to whether they prefer more plot driven games or more puzzle heavy games, and that's a hard balance to find. I don't, however, sympathize with them for getting backlash to a poorly thought out marketing campaign at a time when it's crucial for them not to fumble the ball. If the company fails, it won't be because fans were too ungrateful - it'll be because Herinteractive has bad management.
This comment reflects exactly how I feel about this whole situation and touches on some great points, especially about the old HER team and the current issues with HER. Couldn't have put it better myself!
I was going to make my own comment but a lot of the things you say are how I feel. I also don't care much about how often the games come out. Like you, I would actually prefer they release games less frequently in order to take time to make better games. For me, though, my declining view of them was mainly because of how they treated people.
My main issue is their firing half their staff with no notice. This is unacceptable. Every place I've worked for has done everything in its power to NOT have to fire or lay people off, instead trying to cut costs by getting cheaper supplies or eliminating positions when one person voluntarily leaves and stuff like that. And if they did have to let someone go, they gave plenty of notice so the person could try to find a new job in the meantime. And it sounds like the employees they kept weren't even informed of what was going on. The way Her Interactive's management treated their own employees is disgusting.
They also treated fans poorly. I agree with people who are more positive about the company that it is inappropriate for people to demand release dates and other information that the intern answering isn't allowed to tell or might not even know, and I don't condone those types of questions. However, I see people saying their comments/questions that had absolutely nothing to do with the release of the next game went unanswered. This is poor customer service. I don't like it when people say Her Interactive "doesn't owe us anything." I agree they don't "owe us" a new game or a release date or anything like that, but, as a business with paying customers, they do indeed owe us appropriate customer service. As someone who has worked in many customer service jobs myself, I can tell you that the standard is to get back to the person by the end of the next business day (although some businesses that are very busy or have smaller staff may say a week or something). I also found many of the responses they gave when they responded on social media to be incredibly rude. Very bad customer service they had, in my opinion, although I will say I think they are starting to get better.
(Side note: I see in some people's comments that one of Her's employees received a death threat?? If that's true it is very disturbing and troubling. The ND Game community was one of the few non-toxic fandoms and I am very sad to hear it may no longer be that. No one deserves that and I am sorry the employee had to deal with something so horrible).
I cannot stand Penny Milliken and feel she is running the company into the ground. My aforementioned issue with how she handled her employees is a big part of it. And, like you said, she pushed the games by the wayside in order to make Codes & Clues. This isn't speculation - she said as much at an event I attended where she was one of the speakers. She went on and on about it and how it was her passion project and how people critical of it just "didn't get it because they were forgetting that it was made for very young kids" and yada yada. I was very unimpressed with her and came away really disliking her. She was rude and defensive from the get-go. I personally would like Her Interactive to get a different CEO or, as many have suggested, have the games made by a completely different company than Her Interactive.
In conclusion, I think both sides are being quite reductive. As this video points out, when fans demand a game they are forgetting that games are made by human beings being paid during certain hours of certain days to do so. It is unreasonable and pretty gross, in my opinion, for people to expect that game developers work unpaid hours and give up important things in their lives just so some game can get made. No one needs a video game to live and it's fine to have to wait to play one. However, the other side, the more positive side, quite often claims that anyone who says anything negative at all about the company is just a spoiled entitled brat who is just screaming for a handout. For some this may be true but my criticisms have absolutely nothing to do with timeframe or frequency of output; they have everything to do with how Her Interactive, particularly their management, has behaved toward people. I know many others feel this way as well.
@@obviouspineapple1660 Your response highlights some important points. The death threats are SERIOUSLY messed up and absolutely abhorring. These are video games, no one should ever be doing something so horrible as sending threats. And yeah, definitely important for people to remember that humans are behind these games we've loved, humans who have lives of their own. I'm personally glad they moved away from the game every 6 months, because that must've been quite hard to achieve.
The part of your post that resonates the most with me personally and is something I'm not sure I see talked about nearly enough is what happened to the former staff, the staff who were behind the first 32 games we've played and enjoyed. Watching the old videos from HER interactive before the firing reveals just how devoted and excited the former staff was working on the games. It was so fun to see! And to know that those devoted, hardworking people were just suddenly laid off without prior notice boils my blood. And that's the exact reason why I've chosen not to support the company financially by buying any more games. I can't give my money to a company who did something like that to their employees. Yes, I'm sure other companies do worse to their employees, and I might not be aware of all the companies who I'm supporting financially who are doing this, but I can use what I am aware of to make more informed decisions.
As for the toxic positivity and viewing any criticism as negative, I think in many cases, if not most cases, the criticism stems from a love for Nancy Drew and the games. It would be nice if the criticism could be viewed as such.
Thank you SO much for making a video talking about this. The ND game community is one of the few gaming communities I’ve ever seen where you’d be hard-pressed to find fan toxicity.
It’s okay to be cautious, or even skeptical, but there comes a point where that turns into unjustified cynicism. Rumors spreading about how it was meant to be an April Fools joke gone wrong, rumors that they’re asking fans for money by using merch to help fund their game production. It’s just not true. One of the lead developers mentioned that because they made an error in one of the puzzles, they received a death threat.
That is NOT okay.
As a gamer who’s expanding his gaming taste beyond Nancy Drew, you are right on the money in saying that HER Interactive still being around is a freaking miracle. We were honestly (and I’m including myself here) being spoiled by HER.
I don’t want this wonderful community to fall prey to fan toxicity like other game fandoms had. So once again, thank you so much for putting all of this into words. ❤
Yo I’ve never played these games but this was in my recommended feed and it was a great watch! Nice work!
Definitely give them a try! If you’re into point-and-click puzzle adventure games. There’s 30+ of them out there so there’s plenty to choose from! Lol
Forgot to add this, I think the best game to start with would be the 8th game, The Haunted Carousel. It’s simpler, but fun. Navigation and conversations are pretty straightforward. Pretty standard baseline of a mystery without too many unusual gimmicks.
Some of the games can be VERY challenging, even by adult standards. So this is a good one to dip your toes into before diving off into the deep end. Lol
@@Little1Cave thank you!!
Thank you for this!!!
Great video Gooba! That was very informative! Honestly, this video really puts things into perspective for as to how spoiled we were over the years with 2 games a year. 😂 we were a very spoiled bunch of Nancy Drew gamers. The switch to unity and the opportunity to get more interesting games like KEY is a welcome change, and I can only hope that KEY’s release will bring in a new opportunity for the HeR devs to build off that engine and make it even better!
I’m in the minority for saying this but I don’t think Midnight in Salem was a bad game, in fact, I would argue that MID did things that not many Nancy Drew games would’ve been able to do in the past with the old engine. So being able to be in this new engine, there are a lot of amazing opportunities and I really hope that this is a new time for HeR and the Nancy Drew series
Well now that I finished #34 I can honestly say that I'd be fine if this game never came out. Marginally better than Midnight in Salem, but meh overall.
Thankfully no one can stop me from playing the good old classics games when I get the ND itch again, but yeah I can safely say that I am not going to care about what HER does in the future. #33 and #34 are just boring (for me, don't clutch your pearls).
Hopefully in 2026 when ND becomes public domain, some new studio will pick up the franchise and make a game that goes back to the roots.
I appreciate this video for trying to put things into perspective. The ND fandom has long held such a skewed idea of how the gaming industry works, and it can make for a very frustrating experience when interacting with them. Like yeah, 5 years between games is not uncommon. Outsourcing production to smaller companies is not uncommon (I believe they worked with multiple studios even back in the day) Long periods of time between updates is not uncommon.
Midnight in Salem was a disappointment, I get that, but it was also an under baked game. It needed more time to have the issues smoothed, but it felt like HeR just wanted to get SOMETHING out the door at that point. Everything we've seen of ND34 seems much more polished, which is a good sign. But it's not going to make the game come out faster if every time something is posted you start having hissy fits because they haven't announced the release date. They will announce the release date when they are ready to announce it.
But honestly, the ND fandom was an odd creature even during its heyday. Some of the posts and comments I'd see back in the day were... truly bizarre.
What were these odd comments, if I may ask? I’ve played these games a lot but I’ve only within the past two years or so started engaging with the fan community. Sadly, I wasn’t able to experience the Little Jackalope days. 😞 But at least I can experience the StoryRetold days. ^-^
@@Little1Cave I mean... there is a lot. Its a long running series, so a lot of things have happened over the years. A few highlights that I can think of off the top of my head:
1. Before the release of Ghost of Thornton Hall, HER released some screenshots of some of the backgrounds. Some people didn't like the look of them, and decided, out of nowhere, that the games were going to be 2D hidden object games going forward, causing a minor hullaballoo between people who bought into this and the people who thought it was an overreaction.
2. The series had (possibly still has?) a very vocal fanbase within the conservative christian community. WHY, I'm not sure, since none of the games really embody conservative christian values, but any time they would release a spooky game there would inevitably be whinging from that base over it, because ghosts=occult=evil. Special mention to the lead up to LIE, which cause a bit of a panic because of the Hades/Persephone element, and Hades=Hell=Nancy's apparently literally solving a crime in hell?? All before the game even came out, mind you.
3. And in that vein, when they introduced an LGBT+ character in Sea of Darkness, those same people reacted as you'd probably expect.
Theres a lot to unpack with ye olde ND fandom, but yeah, these are just some examples I could think of. Not indicative of the fandom on the whole, of course, but yeah, there have always been some interesting folks around.
My daughter and I played these games for years and loved them. Credit goes to all those designers and artists that sweat over getting them made. Totally swept away at how creative they were. Sets, music, characters, storylines were great. The added bonus of blooper reals added quiz questions, trophies, easter eggs just added to the flair and charm. Then Midnight in Salem came out. The dialog box was small and hard to read. There wasn't an observation or checklist with hints option. For a person that gets motion sickness this was the worst game to play. I decided not to buy the game and just said a long wait for one of the biggest disappointments ever. After all this time I am hopeful again.
Totally agree! Everyone needs to take a step back & look at the big picture. I was very convinced midnight in Salem would be the last nd game. I’m beyond excited that it is not! I’m so grateful the her team is gritting their teeth and working on this so hard even though the fan base has been so entitled 😢 I’d much rather wait long for a quality game then have a rushed storyline/game. It gives me something to look forward to! And a note to the fan base, it’s totally normal to be upset that your favorite childhood franchise is changing. I’m sad about that too. But I keep any negative thoughts to myself & try to only use my words to encourage. We are so passionate about these games but let’s use our passion for the better.
As a long time Nancy Drew fan, I'll speak on my issue. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That doesn't fully apply here, of course. Some changes needed to be made, and I think many fans, most, would have been open to changes. Need to modernize the games a bit? Okay, sure. Need to have longer development times? Alright, we can deal with that. But it was, well, offputting to have such drastic changes with no forewarning and essentially radio silence before MID's release. But still, I think many of us were excited, and really wanted to give it a shot. There were definitely some hurt and frustrated feelings surrounding the mass exodus of employees, change of voice actress, and longer development time, but I think the majority of fans went into MID open minded. Pre-orders for MID happened, and then the release date was pushed back again. When we did finally get the game we were excited. Only to be met with, well... that. Changes I think we could handle, as long as they were for the good of the company, the employees, etc. MID was not only a bad game, it was near unplayable for many people. It was literally nausea inducing (I dont even get motion sick, and was struggling with the the new set up), glitchy, with bad graphics, some people couldn't even get the game to play. So, while we could accept new changes, I think, or at least this is the way I feel, we got MID and went "WHY did they try to fix what wasn't broken?" because it was such an obviously inferior game to the previous releases. All of this, and there was never any apology for MID. As another comment mentioned, CD Projekt RED not only apologized for the release state of Cyberpunk, they fixed it and it's now an incredible, near top tier game. MID is from an indie studio, so of course I don't think anyone is expecting them to go back and fix it, but at least acknowledge and apologize for the mess that was given to us, and don't blame it all on Unity, when it's clear there were many other mistakes made.
I'm giving this latest game a shot, because I do still hold this series dear, but honestly, I'm not going in with high expectations. I don't think people should be taking out their frustrations on the poor social media interns, but I also don't blame people for having broken trust that HER created or for going into this game with low expectations.
I think it's also because a lot of ND fans don't play other video games so they don't know that it's pretty common to wait for YEARS for a game release and usually with only a few updates. Us ND fans are actually spoiled with updates on this game.
Well said Gooba! I've been so proud of how things have been going at HeR and how they are taking the time needed to make a well thought out game. I cannot wait for the next game to be released. I would wait for as long as it would take to get a game that everyone would be proud of!
This is what I have been thinking for such a long time now and I am thrilled that there are people on the same page!
Very, very well said (and yes, it did need to be said). We’ve been so incredibly lucky and spoiled with all of the information we’ve been given in regards to KEY! It is so disappointing (and at times, sickening) to read the negative, greedy comments that have been said towards the HER team. They’re a small team, and I do not fault them for taking their time to make a great game.
Great vid-I somehow both completely agree with you and completely agree with a lot of ND fans who are frustrated.
As fond as we are of these games, entitlement is never justified, and we have to adapt to the fact that HER as we know it has radically shifted and is still figuring itself out. We have to stop badgering them with hands outstretched as if they're overdue on a payment or something. But that being said, I do think they need to read the room a little- they haven't managed the transition between eras well- it's been years on end of feeling like there's been no back and forth with the community, and that's what I object to. The last year shows real good faith on their part trying to get us back to a feeling of reciprocity, and now that's faded I think the community is devastated again. We need a sense of a solid and reliable HER community built up BY them, if not a release date. And they need to take cues from their own fans when it comes to world building, their new model is very arid and clinical when ND fans play these games for the coziness and vibe that HER carefully crafted over the years.
It's honestly amazing how strong a fanbase ND has without consistent releases, that's what so sad. We're dying for them to let us love them, and I'm worried that a few more years will truly drain the community's reserves of patience.
Excellent video on the situation. :)
I've been playing OBSESSIVELY since 2004 and have played every game made multiple times.
My mother (74years old) and I (47 years old) play these together. We make a great detective team as we have different techniques, approaches, ideas, etc.
I'll admit, HER interactive has not been viewed kindly by us lately. But your video acted as a Valium, lol. Well, your video and the fact that we're currently (finally) playing the new game.
Thanks for posting this video!
To my fellow fans: here's a Koko Kringle bar for you! 🍫
an announcement comes out today and its still "what about the release date?"
then the release date will be announced and the same people will find something to complain about, bet you anything it wont be soon enough
I truly do believe there are some people who will just always complain even if the release date is announced. Not everyone, but some people. “That’s still too far away” or “Why didn’t they tell us sooner?”
Thank you for this! I don’t know how many times I’ve had the discussion about whether or not HER Interactive is an indie studio or not. I worry all the time that the culture driven by the fans will lead to the shut down of HER Interactive and then after that, what next for Nancy Drew games? I hear people talk about starting their own game studios and making “better” Drew games all the time, but we’ve not seen anything to come close to what HER Interactive has accomplished with Nancy Drew, and my fear is, that Nancy Drew is way too niche for any other game studio to want to touch, especially if they used the decline of HER Interactive as a reason not to make “female puzzle games”. I think that would be the worst part of the whole situation, that this game series that empowers young girls would die out, and that the fans would hold some accountability for that.
Yes!!so thankful ND is still out there ❤❤❤
I understand the hate for Midnight in Salem, but also people should give the company another chance, since it looks like they're really trying to improve, and they're sending fans so much whereas they didn't give people much leading up to Midnight in Salem. And it's not cool to see people continuing to be so negative as though their negativity is original thought or that it will do any good.
I remember even when MID came out, I kept in mind that this was a brand new team with a brand new engine. There have been duds in the series before, so I never saw MID as dooming the company, until we didn’t hear about another game. 😞 Bit since then, the situation has changed drastically. And the announcement of KEY reaffirmed to me that MID wasn’t the death of HER. No matter how the game turns out, HER’s management has improved a lot since MID.
@@Little1Cave For sure. I'm sure they've learned a lot just from making MID.
@@EmilynWood Exactly. And idk if you remember, but right after MID’s release, they literally posted a questionnaire to gain feedback on MID. Needless to say, HER is very aware of our criticisms.
i also have zero negative feelings toward MID, honestly. as someone who got my first game when i was 10 and had seen playthroughs of the games i didnt have here, i was shocked to see that they didnt really change anything as far as graphics went until it was time for MID. it was their first time doing something like that and obviously, the fan base has a tendency to push and rush Her, so we got what we got. if they want better this time, they need to not behave like that again lol otherwise like Gooba said theyll be mad they got something rushed and with bugs anyway
as a kid I only owned a few of the games and it took me years to finish them, so I somehow was already/always in the mindset that it'd be a while before I'd get to play another 😅 so waiting never fazed me at all I guess
Now that I'm older I've since picked up some of the ones I didn't have before, and I've come to realize that the games can be experienced to a more full degree as a child or young teen than as an adult. I can still admire the games plenty as an adult, (they have great aesthetics and music, and the puzzles are still fun) but as a kid, it was easier to get immersed in the game's environment as if I was really there, and easier to feel the spookiness and suspense. Now that I'm grown up I guess I'm too thick-skinned to feel those things, rip. I also find that as an adult it's easy to slip into a logical fourth-wall-breaking mindset and start analyzing the game mechanics, whereas as a kid I would have just been like "omg this game is so hard wow" hahah. (of course I still try to enjoy them as much as I can even as an adult~!)
Anyway basically I feel like part of what we might be noticing is a "The games didn't change - We did" sort of thing, because most ND fans are grown up now. Even if the games did change a bit, it's inevitable that we changed too over time. (also the internet with all its subcultures and whatnot is definitely not what it used to be back in ND's starting days, and I feel like that's probably influenced the community side of things a lot)
Anyways! I know haven't commented before, but I've been following you two for a while now, so I also wanna say thanks for posting ND content! And also those Hardy Boys games, those were fun to watch too~! You two are so chill that I feel like we're friends and hanging out just by watching your posted streams
I know nothing about the Nancy Drew games. This is all news to me. And I am 28!
It's hard to empathize with people constantly nagging about the next ND game, a game that will most likely not make profit, when thousands and thousands of game devs are losing their jobs. Game devs are one of the most underappreciated professionals by the consumers. They have to crunch and bite their tongue if they want to eat and pay rent this month and when a game doesn't perform the way it's supposed to, they get shit on by gamers and higher ups, and when it does, they are thrown back onto the hamster wheel. How nice!
So if you are one of those people fuming that the game still doesn't have a release date, debating whether you should or should not send another email demanding an update, maybe consider.. idk... gettin a job?.. playing a different game?.. getting a new hobby?.. literally anything to occupy your free time?..
Absolutely agree. Also, I LOVE your pfp/username. Lol
so happy to see my favorite creators here on the right side of things
💯💯💯Yes!! We all need sit down and listen to game devs!
Wait. 34 GAMES!? That’s insane! 2 a year!? Holy snap. I’m new to Nancy Drew games. But dang. That’s impressive! I’ve been waiting for Dragon Age Dreadwolf for almost ten years now! And that’s just game 4 of a HUGE STUDIO FRANCHISE!
Yeah the gaming industry is slow and if you want a good game it has to be. Game development is TIME CONSUMING.
To be fair, some of us have played the entire ND series more than once...a lot more than once...people don't want flashy new games that take half a decade to make. They want games in the old style that took half a year to make.
Ya, exactly. They SHOULD NOT HAVE SWITCHED to the unity engine. Mistake #1
I mean, somehow they DID crunch out REALLY GOOD GAMES every 6 months. Why switch to unity? Why make things more complicated than they have to be?
But I do agree people need to be patient and grateful. I just think it's strange they would make it so much harder for themselves to create these games
Yes! The switch in style is my major contention with the series. I don't even care about extra wait time. Maybe it is just the nostalgia speaking, but I want a new game that plays and feels like the old games.
I think the community went feral because we had such a fantastic thing and it changed in every way. If they had taken 3-5 years to put out a game that still had the things we loved about the old games I would not complain.
I plan to buy and play the new game, but I won't let myself get hyped because I don't want the let down. I'm hoping that going into this game with my expectations on the ground will allow me to find an appreciation for the new games.
@@shorte3077 I like how in this new game you can stick to the old way of point and click or do free roam if you want too. Neither is forced. I will of course be doing point in click but I will try free roam out. And the seem to have actually included a lot of puzzles in this new one unlike MID
But I feel the same way. If it's not broke don't fix it and the Nancy Drew games were perfect.
You’re right and you should say it 👏
I'm so glad that we are talking about this. It really hurts whenever I hear people pressuring my favorite company. The negativity needs to come to a halt! I think that hearing this from your perspective really helps me to see how amazing that they have done. Before, I was disappointed in MID, but I have really turned my head around to know more about what was going on and I wish I was more patient. I hope that others who are still upset with the company will come to see this video and change their minds soon. Everything that they have given us on game 34 DOES NOT disappoint! Thank you HER for everything that you do! And Thank you Gooba for your insight!
I feel as though they did rush it. It’s probably one of the worst games I have played so far. I am curious what happened to the company and why they stopped using the game play template of games 10-21 (those are by far the best set of games!)
They basically had to remake the engine with every release including all the environments/objects/characters back in the day… there were batches of games done once they found something that worked but most of it did have to be build up from scratch every time
The idea with Unity is you could potentially reuse assets/environments/characters and reduce the burden on developers so they can focus on fine tuning details (like bugs, performance, polish) but they haven’t brought back any characters yet and any asset reusage doesn’t seem obvious so I think they have remade a lot of stuff (hopefully to be reused later or it’s kind of a waste, like will they remake new NPC systems each game instead of spending that development time on something else even like increased accessibility)
Just finished it and I can agree with you. The game is definitely rushed and clunky as heck. It is marginally better than Midnight in Salem, but that's a very low bar. A dull game over all.
Gooba, I feel so validated by this video! 🤣 My husband and I have had this conversation quite a bit.
Is it even worth playing MID or should I just skip it. I've played every game but that one
I would personally say play it, so that you have the experience, but if the fact that it’s clunky is going to irritate you, maybe just watch a playthrough. - Jetpack
@@GoobaandJetpack Thanks so much.
As someone whos interacted with some of the... more passionate fans on reddit, i do think that openly communicating what we can expect would circumvent a lot of the negativity. Instead we have major social media hype generated for the new title only to be essentially left on read. No trailer, no release date - it feels like they dont even communicate with their own marketing team - why bother generating excitement only to leave longtime fans, with admittedly outdated expectations, feeling ignored and unappreciated. If theyd announced even a generalized ETA, I truly think people would be happier overall.
I think its perfectly fine to be defensive of an indie dev "doing the best they can", but its also perfectly fine to question if they could be doing better to communicate with their loyal fanbase (without being outright negative or nasty).
as noted in the video, the title was not the only thing they released. something that people dont consider with any kind of development, is there is a process to things and it is no ones fault that they cannot give us a release date yet. they give us what they can and when they can. there really isnt anything to question there, it goes the same with any kind of release, in the fashion industry, makeup industry, with books, movies, etc. yet i dont see anyone complaining when it gets announced that (xyz) movie is set to be released, but no release day has been given. it is the same process.
@misswitchh you misunderstood, by "title" I was just referring to the game in general. The point I was making is that it's probably hard for people not to feel slighted and "strung along" when in the past they've been much more communicative in general. Sure they worked faster (simpler coding tbh), but they delivered on what they teased instead of having marketing go hard for over a year (theyve been doing great, but there's just a disconnect) without any actual confirmation of the game itself aside from third parties. Personally, I feel I'd rather hear nothing until we're within a year of release, so I could get excited rather than get breadcrumbs over years' time and left to wonder if it'll ever actually come.
@misswitchh what I'm saying is that 99% of the people complaining would be happy with "tentative release 2025" or something of the like. Instead we have some mildly relevant puzzles and a desktop icon. Which is fun, but would be a whole lot more exciting with even a scrap of transparency.
They confirmed during the cookie contest that the game will release this year.
@Little1Cave why not announce that anywhere official, if that's the case? Seems like a weird thing to keep under wraps if it's officially confirmed and not just some third party channel/creator speculating.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! The entitlement I see in the Nancy Drew community is UNREAL. Yes, I will call it entitlement and spoiled, child-like behavior. Last year, before the news about KEY, I assumed the games were done. Everything up to this point has been a gift. This has been such a fun year of reveals, puzzles, and clues. Trust me, having a more positive outlook will feel better than wallowing in the negativity and having outrageous expectations (yes, you CAN choose to have a positive outlook...try it sometime). At least don't be a Negative Nancy (lol) to all of us having a good time. If this video pisses anyone off, it's really just because people can't handle looking in a mirror and ***gasp*** are not true fans of the series. Idgaf. If you're mad at this video, you're not a fan, you're just a hater. Period.
People really do forget just how bad the build-up to MID was compared to how amazing the build-up to KEY has been. Idk if it’s because they were too young to remember, or if they’re blocking out the details because of how atrocious it was, but the Nancy Drew community has been FEASTING this past year.
And you’re exactly right. We were spoiled and entitled by how HER did things before. It’s okay to be cautious and frustrated, but it’s not okay to be unfair and baselessly cynical.
i said the same and will continue to say it even if it never gets to their heads. in fact, calling it child like behavior is insulting to some of the kids ive met that were actually...raised properly (oop!) also, ps, lovee your username lol
@@misswitchh thank you! After I sent the comment I was thinking about how I know kids better behaved than some of the “adults” complaining online. Oh well, they should know that their online public tantrums are being witnessed and laughed at 😂 We will have our fun!
Personally, as a non-gamer, I've always been aware that the standard for the gaming industry is that it does take years to develop games; however, my frustration is not in waiting years for the next game release. It was the sudden radio silence after the release of MID and lack of transparency by HeR Interactive. All we got for three years were cookie contests and sale after sale on games we already own and games modern laptops can't even play without extensive tech support--and even then, many players still can't get half the catalog to work, even though the games are available for purchase on platforms like Steam. Even if HeR couldn't share anything specific until last year, that's fine, but it would've made a world of difference in terms of PR to least have a broad "stay tuned" message at the end of MID and a statement by the new CEO about how the company changes and new gaming platform would impact the schedule fans had become accustomed to for two decades. With that well-established precedent, you can't expect there not to be frustration and confusion, even if what ND fans were accustomed to is abnormal for the industry. And to be clear, a lot of us are not "gamers" outside of this franchise, so the lack of transparency when the changes happened and the lack of info on what we should now expect when it comes to things like release date announcements makes a lot of us feel like the heartbeat of the company is dead and like we're being treated like an afterthought, despite strongly supporting an indie company that has always been very communicative and involved with its fanbase.
I hear you, and I appreciate your nuanced take on this topic. I do want to try to put some things in perspective so some things might make more sense.
Like Gooba said, HER Interactive was not in a good spot in the 2010s. I wouldn’t be surprised if the remaining staff were worried that the company would continue at all, especially after MID when the pandemic impacted the gaming industry, shutting down a lot of indie companies. I’m honestly relieved that we didn’t get a teaser at the end of MID, because if the company DID go under, then it would’ve been one final broken promise that we’d have to live with. I can see HER providing teasers for their next projects once their company becomes more stable, if they want to.
After failing to deliver on so many broken promises for MID (changing the release date, never providing console support, etc.), it is totally understandable for the production of KEY to be held so close to the chest and only to release information when they’re 100% confident for it to be true. Thankfully, they’ve been very open for the past year and have re-engaged with fans in a way I haven’t seen before. Heck even the official Nancy Drew UA-cam channel has popped in on UA-camrs livestreams and gave juicy behind-the-scenes info.
I honestly can’t speak much on the fidelity of the Steam games, personally. I’m on a laptop that can’t upgrade to Windows 11 so I’m still stuck on Windows 10. They seem to work fine for me, but I know that’s not everybody’s experience. Compatibility is very finicky in regards to the older games, so I hope they’re able to figure something out to help us out. I heard programmer Walter Sykes is on Reddit now, so maybe they can reach out to him. ^-^
@@Little1Cave Your take on why they didn't include something at the end of MID does make sense, but once they confirmed the company was in the clear and a game was in the works, that's when a "stay tuned" message could have been released with information about what to expect in terms of a new timeline after getting through initial adjustment period during MID. I don't fault them for their delays; it was huge company shift and an entirely new platform they were working with after all, but a clear company statement is a simple yet effective way to thank long-time players for support during a murky transition period and lets us know where the company stands after sales. Years of relying on word of mouth discoveries by fans hasn't been reassuring.
In regards to the official ND yt channel popping into streams, tbh I do not like that. To me, it feels like they do not have a consistent marketing strategy, I find it strange to rely on other gamers for PR in this manner (assuming there's a lack of coordination with the channel owner), and it feels like they're not interested in making sure the entire ND community is aware of updates by then not putting those updates on all of their other platforms in the days to follow. It kind of feels like they're only letting certain people know about what's going on and like they're trying to avoid negative comments on their own official platforms. I would personally prefer something like a behind-the-scenes clip with a developer about the process on their social media accounts following the sketches and music, etc. that they have released rather than, well, all of this. Last year, it really felt like they were building up to a broad release date announcement (I'd be happy with a year--I've heard it is supposed to be this year, but I don't remember if that's official or not), but then they stopped doing updates last summer for the most part and went back to cookie contests. It's really confusing to go back to that after all they hyped up last April.
@@writerspen010 During the cookie contest they confirmed that it was releasing this year. 👍
@@Little1Cave Odd announcement choice, but it's good to know that the rumors are true 🤷♀
There was also a press release that confirmed a 2024 release. Also the MID argument is old news at this point. YES we all know they dropped the ball with MID. However they’re clearly trying to do better with this release. They’re learning and growing from past mistakes and the never ending criticism from “fans” (I call them “fans” very loosely because y’all love to hate). Y’all frankly need to get over MID. Let HER bring in a new era of games with support and grace. It’s less embarrassing than bringing up the same tired arguments trust me
I shared this video in a Facebook group and this is literally one of the replies:
“Haven’t watched it yet but honestly the negativity is needed. The company used to be awesome.”
“The negativity is needed” is such a gross thing to say.
it’s a bit rude of u to copy and paste that here too
@@poetstars-xk5xh I have kept them anonymous. Just like the comments brought up within this video.
I’m not going to out anybody.
@@Little1Cave u can clearly see it in the fb group n someone else even points it out in a comment to them that u pasted the comment here…….. not very anonymous to me
anyway a lot of good criticism is not negative, i rec taking a look at the sub the comments there say some stuff rlly nicely & nicer than i can myself… just to help u understand the other side. we r not being mean, we just want a good game like u do…
@@poetstars-xk5xhthat’s not what most of the criticism has been. As Gooba mentioned it’s been a whole litany of release date demands and anger of lack of transparency when this current timeline is accurate for what indie gaming companies can handle. Plus, HeR gives us WAY more than most indie companies do. If that’s not your criticism then he’s not talking about you. If it is then, respectfully, you’re wrong.
@@terrikoop416ppl should be able to ask abt release dates though!!!! i thibk that’s totally fine!!!!! and it’s fine 2 say they aren’t being transparent bc….. they haven’t been lol. like i said i’m just re saying what the person on the sub said. i rec u to check their much better response
So if you don’t like it don’t buy it. A very cool game will be released on May 7 2024. It’s a Nancy Drew game. Get it or not. 🤷♂️
i also want to point out just how many people ive seen admit that they are unhappy with the way things have been going simply because they dont like change. absolute boomer mentality and you couldnt waterboard that information out of me. you dont like change? change is so often necessary, no matter what we're talking about, and whether we like it or not. this video explains all of why its necessary here. you can either learn to adapt or be miserable, but dont make us witness to that if you choose the latter. i thought the tantrums stopped when we got older but its clear they didnt for some people.
Lest we forget that the primary source of income for HER was a single rich donator who financed their projects because he believed they were worth investing in, even if it didn’t turn a profit. That is not a sustainable source of income, especially with the “pump out two games a year” model. Change NEEDED to happen eventually if we are to expect HER to continue making games for us.
Speaking of toxicity I've seen posts disappear on this channel simply for disagreeing politely with the host's point of view. (I don't have high hopes for this one).
If you really don't know anything about the bad faith that HER dealt in over "Midnight in Salem", the last few minutes of Wizard Kitten's video "An Honest Review of Midnight in Salem" should bring you up to speed. It should then be clear why HER's reputation has been permanently damaged, despite the fact that they were admittedly a great company before Penny Millikan's tenure.
That's not to say you're completely wrong. I agree we shouldn't complain that they're not giving us enough information. To the contrary, they're giving us too much. When they've got a release date, they can let us know. Until then, don't say anything.
Incidentally, HER is not making Game 34 at all, they're outsourcing it to Mi'pu'mi Games, the same as they did with MID. HER is not a game developer any more, they're a label.
Hi, we have not deleted any comments on this video, or any of our other videos. UA-cam holds potentially harmful comments for review, but as of right now, none are being held that we can see, although it’s not the fastest process.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you for publicly stating this 🙏🏼 I have been trying to put out similar ideas on the Reddit page. I am so grateful that Nancy Drew games simply exist, and Ghost Dogs of Moon Lake, Danger on Deception Island, Last Train to Blue Moon Canyon, Curse of Blackmoor Manor, Secret of Shadow Ranch, and many others are all I will ever need to feel peace of mind and connected to my dreams of a future home. Thank you HerInteractive for all that you do 💗 we will always love you and you will always be worth the wait 🤍
As someone who watched my older sister play the Nancy Drew games and would later go on to play the zelda games, they have a tone of games already. I get being annoyed at new gaming directions and games taking long but after waiting years for the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom I have come to understand, firstly that making new age games is very hard and time consuming and second after the failure of Midnight, t in Salem, heir "coming back" game, understand if the studio wants to take a step back and reassess what fans want from a Nancy Drew game.
I’m a very out of touch Nancy drew fan, I love the games, I own them all (I’ve only beaten about 20s) but I’m still excited for a new game, I’ve heard midnight in Salem was a bummer and I’m hoping this new game makes up for it, but I’m still really surprised people got toxic over all of this stuff.
I’m glad her interactive is still trying, I’m still gonna buy each Nancy Drew game as it comes out.
For us less active members of the fan base, thanks for speaking up 🫰🏼😌