I find it deplorable that the survivors have had to wait 7 years, for the outfit of the inquiry. This is not good enough and not acceptable. My heart goes out to these people.
and what ? it is obvious that no one cares. No one seems to care about anything and anybody - more than 72 civilians war killed in Ukraine this week, what did you do to help ? What about the million who have died in the last 2 years.... so we have 72 people killed in London but we have 1,000,000+ being killed in Ukraine..... what did you do about the 3 girls murdered in Southport last month? What did you do to help their families Pauline? and here we have left wing women who created the problem complaining. People like you simply make me sick with yr pointless virtue signalling..... what about the thousands of our Vets you are homeless? What action do you want?
If UK had complied with EU cladding regulations, Grenfell could not have happened. We are sick of lifesaving regulations being treated as a joke and just "red tape" when they are a matter of life and death. It IS the attitude of Tory Eurosceptics that the rules dont apply to them.
@@AndrewLale "jonaen24" Sounds like a whiney remonaner. ALL this was conducted pre-Brexit and the UK was following ALL EU dictats (Unlike France etc which notoriously say "oui" then carry on regardless.
Grenfell was simply a result of capitalistic greed, the same sadistic ideology every goverment and our society is a slave too. You want a fast growing economy? You get cheap products sold at high prices that keep the rich rich and the poor poorer.@AndrewLale
nothing will change because we have MP's who are in power and don't have any idea how their departments work plus don't have the expertise to run these departments ,until these MP's get jailed for incompetence and not working for the people not for special interest groups
Err, do keep up with the news. There's been a change of government. New ministers and new MPs and all that. The people who were ministers and MPs in the period before the Grenfell disaster, and who encouraged companies to avoid health and safety regulations, by their constant bleating on about 'bonfire of red tape' are mostly no longer MPs
Public Liability INSURANCE! Commercial/Company INSURANCE! WTF were they doing signing off on all of these catastrophic layers that led to this awful tragedy & others!!!!! 😠
Southwark stopped people using gas to cook and heat in one of their blocks. Now they have kicked them out because of fear of collapse. That's taken years.
The parliamentarians showed their hypocrisy yesterday with their "Grenfell Show" of green suits and green hearts 💚 on their lapels, when at the Grenfell Debate , less than half a dozen turned up, the gallery was full of members of the Grenfell community, but there were less than half a dozen parliamentarians on the day. Totally disgraceful!
My god 20 years ago I was working on sites that where such low standards and poor management and working practices this was bound to happen. The amount of back handers and brown envelopes etc. but no one listens as big companies make millions. You are numbers to these companies and to the government. They do not care no one from the management will go to jail etc. but lessons will be learnt. Same old ball 💩. 7 years to find out what I could have told you in ten minutes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Country is joke and the rich and politicians are laughing at us.
“I don’t want to hear “sorry”...” Dead right. Platitudes are too often used as cover for doing nothing. Action not words. “Action this day” as Churchill had written on his desk.
What the residents of North Kensington want is for rbkc Council to be put under special measures, to bring in the Commissioners and auditors that should have been brought on June 14 th 2017. Social housing tenants in rbkc , we are still being treated in the worse possible way, living in unsafe homes with disrepairs and in squalor. The leader of our council has never been inside our flats to see how we live, up until Grenfell she had never even been inside a council flat. Rbkc council do not represent us working class residents in North Kensington, we need to split from Chelsea, because this council is only catering for the million & billionaires and treat us with contempt. We need an independent North Kensington Council.
I think you should stop living on other people’s backs / taxes and move to a property you can afford. Maybe then you should have more reasonable expectations. Most people living in market properties have awful conditions they live in - and a lot of these people are being taxed “to support” people living in council properties. I actually think unless social housing is being paid by millionaires and billionaires explicitly - it should not exist. It is too much of a strain for normal middle class people to pay for normal quality social council housing. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I am being realistic. You shouldn’t have such high expectations given how broken the housing market is for people who pay a lot more and get much less. Yes, it is atrocious that people died and die due to various causes in council housing. But also, I just don’t think you can expect anything else in this situation. Move out somewhere where you can actually afford. Then you will have the leverage to ask for the basics.. like everyone else. And yes, there should be a Revolution and outrage about the housing quality in the UK. Unless this happens, don’t expect anything to change, realistically speaking.
I own an ex-council property in Chelsea and am not aware of any special treatment. I am not a billionaire. The now defunct TMO which presided over the Grenfell disaster had nothing to do with wealthy private homeowners: it was brought in (by John Major, I believe) solely to administer council estates, which had become increasingly difficult to run because they have both leaseholders (ie people who own properties) and tenants (those who rent from the council/TMO). Residents were offered two options: having estates run by a private company, or a TMO. There were regular consultation sessions, which were very well run. I can still hear the main presenter saying: "Going back to council management is NOT an option" - somewhat ironic in view of subsequent events. May I ask: did you attend many of these sessions? The vote was overwhelmingly for a TMO, which was my preferred option. Had we opted for a private option, then Grenfell might not have happened. Private companies with multiple contracts/portfolios are nationally recognised entities with a 'brand' to protect; and they are likely to be wiser to the many pitfalls of major building projects, with established suppliers and experienced staff overseeing similar projects in multiple locations around the country. The shift to a TMO took place around 2005/6, when privatisation had a very bad reputation because of Railtrack, etc. But it is not necessarily a bad thing. I have posted this elsewhere on UA-cam, but I have had multiple dealings with the council/TMO over nearly thirty years and have found most staff polite, attentive and competent. They come from all ethnic groups, reflecting London's demographic.
@bigbinji6145 that's a complete lie. It was one faulty fridge which was likely a manufacturer's fault although the inquiry couldn't decide on this. Stop spreading lies it doesn't help the victims.
If I remember correctly, Emma Dent Coad, the former Labour MP and local councillor, was an active participant in establishing the specification for the cladding and commissioning the work. She is typical of so many people of her ilk, in all political parties, who do their utmost to convince themselves of their complete innocence. It’s all very well for her to talk about a ‘distrust of authority’ but she was an enthusiastic part of that very authority the people are distrustful of.
Oh - and jailtime. People died and the desk killers whose "culture" caused their deaths need incentivising to think about the consequences of their action/inaction. We have no interest in white collar crime, it seems, but how many suffer and die as a result?
Sadly, the inescapable truth is that this sort of profit driven man-made tragedy will never stop happening. History is full of them. Titanic, Concord, Thalidomide, Covid etc etc.
Every word the truth--- nothing has changed. Tenants are either patronised or ignored--- ive workd in housing and lived in ' housing'. The wraps need lifting off asap
I left London a while ago but could see Grenfell from the Shepherds Bush shopping centre I managed at the time. Wasn't the cladding installed by the builder as compensation for construction delay of the ex public housing nearby which had been sold off as private apartments and featured similar cladding? The additional cladding would align the private and public housing in look and feel I thought the story was. The Grenfell committee at the time was maybe seeking some form of compensation? I get that the cladding acted as a flu and changed the fire design of the tower and in retro was non compliant (allegedly) but I only saw that aspect of the tragedy mentioned once in the early aftermath. In Australia $100's of millions of dollars have been spent swopping out cladding due to Grenfell.
Just like Hillsborough its taken years for the truth to come out and those responsible to be named. Until there is a root and branch reform of the system both politicly and legally to get to the truth sooner this situation will keep happening. This will mean taking on all the vested interests involved but the interests of ordinary people, the little people must for once take precedence.
This is not just an issue for social housing. Most housing was built with flammable materials be it in the insulation or the actual cladding. So people bought flats and now have to bear the costs and the consequences of unsafe building standards. Lenders will not approve mortgages for buyers, owners have to pay for re cladding while government and developers and building managers take no responsibility.
I had to go to the press and fire service as Peabody Housing ignored our concerns about a Stay Put Evacuation Policy in a building internally timber without suitable compartmentation. The fire safety officer Peabody threw the article (newspaper), across the table in a public meeting! Weeks later the Stay Put Notices were still up, the journalist that wrote the article Southwark News, had to phone Peabody to remind them! All post Grenfell. The culture and attitude of these organisationsations are toxic.
At first thought the "Stay Put Evacuation Policy" sounds insane (other than for those that physically can't use the stairs). I mean, if I knew the building was on fire I'd want to be out. But false alarms used to be a weekly problem - maybe less so now there are CCTV cameras everywhere - but 25y ago my student hall had several late night "unscheduled evacuation drills a week. Evacuating a building like that is not zero risk. But still, if there's a fire, it's insane to stay put and ASSume it will be put out.
It was a disgrace and it’s sadly its very systemic in British 🇬🇧 Councils who don’t understand people paying rent are tenants and you are serving them because you take their money
It's the class system in Britian that's the nub of the problem, first and second class citizens don't make for an equal society, and paying lip service to equality whilst retaining the attitude of superiority is what we have always had, and I can't see it changing. I think capitalism feeds on snobbery, on elitism. Truth is that the rich are too often the lowest form of human paradoxically.
There's a concept in psychiatry, everyday genius. That's not egalitarian, but the reality that what makes genius is not taught in top schools, but comes from anywhere. It can't be taught, because nobody knows what makes it. It's generally wiped out by egalitarianism, though.
I probably take on board the points these ladies make but the heart of the matter looking at the bigger picture is this country’s unwillingness to build on government books high quality but basic specification social housing including flats and demolish old obsolete dwellings but instead we as a country prefer to patch them up and bring them up to the latest fire and thermal spec which is difficult, unsatisfactory and expensive. New build is always resisted because of planning costs and sensitivities- Its b****y nonsense when you think about it- other countries don’t mess about like us
As we blame the building standards we must also question how so many illegal sublets were in the building, why fire doors were propped open and left open by residents in the block, how many illegal HMO's were in the block and did anyone in the block contribute to the speed at which the fire took hold
00:03 Need for accountability and change in society's attitude towards social housing tenants. 02:20 Systemic failures led to avoidable deaths at Grenfell 06:40 Transparency and oversight of recommendations are crucial to prevent repeat incidents. 09:15 Government and authorities not listening to people's needs. 13:29 Importance of working for tenants' safety and well-being 15:45 Focus on preventing future incidents rather than just assigning blame. 20:02 Need for a new system to address systemic injustices like Grenfell 21:52 Value of people living in social housing is critical 25:40 Changing perceptions of social housing 27:31 Investing in social housing has wide-reaching positive impacts on health, education, and life outcomes. 31:25 Preventing future disasters like Grenfell Crafted by Merlin AI.
Time and again nothing ever changes. Enquiries are a waste of public money. Until public enquiry findings are enforced and individuals are made accountable including the individuals conducting the enquiry, then enquiries will remain insanity: it's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Utter madness.
Until you make organisations and individuals fully accountable nothing will ever change. Financial accountability for an organisation is a waste of time. Making individuals both public services and private organisations financially responsible may make individuals think twice. Politicians both council and parliamentary MPs should be accountable. Financial penalties and prison for serious offences. Sadly in ten, or twenty years, nothing will have changed. Without accountability, and then to expect things to change is wishful thinking. It's all spin.
Kensington and Chelsea Council and the Tenant Management Organisation are lucky we live in a relatively civilised country; I can think other countries where those responsible would be dragged out of their building and receive instant retribution for this criminal neglect.
So we had at one time the British Institutions that would test and certify products for use in the UK....That ended with the EU as we accepted their rules and still follow them....We need as a nation to do our own certification....It is the same with vehicles that used to be tested at the long abandoned Road Research Centre so now we have car headlamps that are like full on spot lamps and EV's that burst into flames....
Tragic, fire brigade didnt help either, but the country's bueracrats who were incompetant for years have to be blamed. Spending 170 Million pounds over 7 years shows the total incompetance, but a raft of judges lawyers court officials and the rest have made a fortune. Now who is going to prison. Who is going to be fined. I wonder. R
“You work for the tenants” is wrong to claim when we are speaking about social housing. You work for the residents of the borough, not for the tenants who pay sub-market rents and result in a net loss for the council, covered by other middle-class residents who are being squeezed due to the fact that millionaires and billionaires in this country are financially protected by the government and “oh, no, they shouldn’t be taxed to pay for the poorest, so it will have to fall and destroy lives of the middle class”. This is atrocious given the lack of economic vertical mobility in the last 30 years in this country. They are getting rid of the middle class by making them pay for the low class - the deprived and impoverished, who quite often are alcoholics and drug abusers and dealers.. not all, but many.
The answer is simple individuals need to be held accountable for their actions *PERSONALLY*. You cover up the fact your cladding is unsuitable for tall buildings, jail time for you. If you directed someone to do that, again jail time for you. When people understand they are facing jail they will no longer engage in the sort of coverups that lead to these sorts of scandals.
FFS - exactly, PRECISELY, the same panels were fitted to multi-million pound penthouses. Tragedy as it undoubtedly was, it was never a conspiracy to "burn the poor" or even a negligent "we don't care if they burn". Documents available the day after on the council website (soon after blocked) showed the planning and consultation process. There was almost universal support for "something to hide the brutalist concrete" of the original structure. It certainly made it look sheek. So there were flaws (and the panels have been replaced on the high-end properties too now. The materials - for whatever reason - didn't work according to spec. That's actually part of a MUCH wider approval process generally ... small changes get made, and the "type rating" transfers, and over time the cumulative effect ... I understand the public demands blood - demands witches to burn. But unless it turns out that a councillor OR supplier knew that the panels were lethal, or that the architects knew they were cutting corners, then it is a witch hunt and not a search for the truth. Indeed, the very fact that EVERY MSM article implies malice says they are looking for a scapegoat.
how to stop it happening? the local council and the local mp's that allowed the shortcuts made to be used should all face the sentencing in the full name of the law, councils all over the country for over 20 years have sidestepped the current LAW of health and safety, like councils selling on 15 year old water heaters, just before they legally should be decommissioned as sale of stock to housing associations, and for the housing associations to use them as if they were new stock (this happened in several councils in the north west), these now 25 year old water heaters, 10 years after they were meant to be taken out of service were replaced, but now that leaves 20 year old piping systems made for a time when the immersion heater water heating system was just being phased out, and combi boilers were not quite ready to be given to councils, and thier supporting electric circuits that are still a nightmare
I do not feel any optimism for the new government and the future...I am sorry to say I do not think they will actually change! By what the government saying, we are in a ''economy black hole!'' So, where is the money to built safe housing? And in fact we need more affordable housing more than ever, nowadays, it is because the young people is actually cannot afford to buy houses! This is a very bad and dangerous cycle to carry one. And Angela Rayner saying there is no timeline for fixing those dangerous housing neither! God save England!
Problem with how those products were tested allows those product manufacturers to create a test environment that is perfect. What happens on site is not what happens in a test centre. I have worked in construction for years selling products, race to the bottom promotes using inferior products by manufacturers who would do anything to cover that fact up with false information and claims regarding fire performance. Test facilities need to be held accountable as well, build the product exactly how it will be built on site, then perform the test. Only then will you get data that is relevant to real world installation. Shocking that all those involved did what they did right from specification writing all the way through to installation and sign off. May those souls rest in peace and those family and friends get their justice.
Inner London is a Labour MP stronghold. Why didn't those Labour MPs take any action to help and protect those working class residents prior to the fire? Were they too busy having their Islington dinner parties and discussing identity politics and transgenderism?
Expect more, not less. Building code inspectors should start with blueprints and list of contract journeymen. Oversight from begining to completion. The clad sheathing firm has already been queried on sales and distribution?
All started under Blair but you'll not mention that. The fire brigade have to accept a large amount of responsibility for telling folk to stay put rather than getting out......
It’s only talk! Rich and poor people are always let off because they can afford these barristers. 7 years and the Mayor turned his back on them. What is going on!!!!
Hmmm why isn’t the witch hunt focusing on identifying the actual person’s and cause of the fire itself ? There’s some covering up of the living conditions within the towers that contributed to this tragedy…!
Reading more about this elsewhere ... as regards the stats. So LL was present for ALL the cases presented to the court. Statistially that sounds damning. UNTIL You realise the number of cases which were excluded from the "statistical analysis" , which, coincidentally, she was not present for. Mmm ... if you exclude all the tails it's statistically all but certain the coin always comes down heads! NOTE: Does not prove she was innocent, BUT it is yet another example how "case building" against someone presumed to be guilty can lead to statistical fraud.
I appreciate that human life should never put at danger and that criminal conviction should be pursued if and when human life has been lost due to negligence among many other reasons. However, it is also difficult not to acknowledge the fact that if you’re not paying for the property and it is managed by a poorly financed council (like all councils in the UK are and have been after Thatcher’s era), you SHOULD EXPECT that you may die because of something like this. To claim and expect anything else is unrealistic. I am sorry to raise this unpopular opinion. But there is nothing free. And I am also sorry to destroy the romantic view that the people living in those properties are angels - they are not. A lot of them are exploiting the system which lends itself to be financially exploited by the very few who for one reason or another have decided that they will not work and will live on someone else’s back. Well, if that’s your decision (and I appreciate that sometimes or often it is not a person’s decision but a circumstance) - then you should also expect to take on all the consequences of that decision. Let’s be honest, the UK property market is BROKEN EVEN FOR PEOPLE PAYING THEIR OVER-INFLATED RENT AND ARE LIVING IN “MARKET” PROPERTIES. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FOR SOCIAL / COUNCIL HOUSING???
So, the story that comes out of the inquiry is that most if not all the people in Grenfell would NOT have died if the woman in charge of the fire had evacuated the building immediately. The people in Grenfell died because of London Fire Brigade mistakes, not because of some fucking cladding. But all the stories and videos want to talk about is the cladding. Funny that.
@12:38 makes me realise so even if actions / solutions are discussed it will still be dependant on the vote 🤦🏼♂️😂. Seems the power is more with the elected party than the people.
Angela Rayner is out of her depth. Expect nothing from her. Starmer and his ruling clique have made it clear they want her gone. She's ben dead in the water ever since she called the Tories scum.
@graham. Is it because she's a bright woman? A woman of the Left? Or a woman in power. She Left school at 16, now she's Deputy Prime Minister. Sit down 🙄
Pmsl these people in high places will never listen it’s there friends in business with them. And stop virtue signalling. You all are as bad as each other, Your not working class and have no idea
The greed and contempt for working class social housing tenants started with thatcher and continued with Blair and brown. Got even worse with Osborn and Cameron and reached sick and twisted proportions under Johnson. There are people in this cesspit mainly of Tory making will never again have trust in government or the judiciary ever again.
As the C4 programme exposed they tried for years to get rid of the cladding. It was put up really badly as well leaving huge holes in people's external walls! No surprise No excuses
My god 20 years ago I was working on sites that where such low standards and poor management and working practices this was bound to happen. The amount of back handers and brown envelopes etc. but no one listens as big companies make millions. You are numbers to these companies and to the government. They do not care no one from the management will go to jail etc. but lessons will be learnt. Same old ball 💩. 7 years to find out what I could have told you in ten minutes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Country is joke and the rich and politicians are laughing at us.
I find it deplorable that the survivors have had to wait 7 years, for the outfit of the inquiry. This is not good enough and not acceptable. My heart goes out to these people.
Most of them were illegal migrants
and what ? it is obvious that no one cares. No one seems to care about anything and anybody - more than 72 civilians war killed in Ukraine this week, what did you do to help ? What about the million who have died in the last 2 years.... so we have 72 people killed in London but we have 1,000,000+ being killed in Ukraine..... what did you do about the 3 girls murdered in Southport last month? What did you do to help their families Pauline? and here we have left wing women who created the problem complaining. People like you simply make me sick with yr pointless virtue signalling..... what about the thousands of our Vets you are homeless? What action do you want?
Absolutely, Hilary
I find it deplorable that the person who started the fire that killed the people has never been named and shamed.
Isle of Mann families never considered for inquiry or compensation
If UK had complied with EU cladding regulations, Grenfell could not have happened. We are sick of lifesaving regulations being treated as a joke and just "red tape" when they are a matter of life and death. It IS the attitude of Tory Eurosceptics that the rules dont apply to them.
Most of the work on Grenfell happened during the period 2000-2010 under Labour.
@@AndrewLale
"jonaen24" Sounds like a whiney remonaner.
ALL this was conducted pre-Brexit and the UK was following ALL EU dictats (Unlike France etc which notoriously say "oui" then carry on regardless.
Grenfell was simply a result of capitalistic greed, the same sadistic ideology every goverment and our society is a slave too. You want a fast growing economy? You get cheap products sold at high prices that keep the rich rich and the poor poorer.@AndrewLale
nothing will change because we have MP's who are in power and don't have any idea how their departments work plus don't have the expertise to run these departments ,until these MP's get jailed for incompetence and not working for the people not for special interest groups
@@ThomasYoung-my4qi yup,
let's not forget all the complicit voters that made it a reality, and STILL make it a reality today,
Err, do keep up with the news. There's been a change of government. New ministers and new MPs and all that.
The people who were ministers and MPs in the period before the Grenfell disaster, and who encouraged companies to avoid health and safety regulations, by their constant bleating on about 'bonfire of red tape' are mostly no longer MPs
Public Liability INSURANCE!
Commercial/Company INSURANCE!
WTF were they doing signing off on all of these catastrophic layers that led to this awful tragedy & others!!!!! 😠
Kowtowing to Ed Miliband's net zero madness, that's what they were doing.
Southwark stopped people using gas to cook and heat in one of their blocks. Now they have kicked them out because of fear of collapse. That's taken years.
The parliamentarians showed their hypocrisy yesterday with their "Grenfell Show" of green suits and green hearts 💚 on their lapels, when at the Grenfell Debate , less than half a dozen turned up, the gallery was full of members of the Grenfell community, but there were less than half a dozen parliamentarians on the day. Totally disgraceful!
My god 20 years ago I was working on sites that where such low standards and poor management and working practices this was bound to happen.
The amount of back handers and brown envelopes etc.
but no one listens as big companies make millions. You are numbers to these companies and to the government.
They do not care no one from the management will go to jail etc.
but lessons will be learnt.
Same old ball 💩.
7 years to find out what I could have told you in ten minutes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Country is joke and the rich and politicians are laughing at us.
“I don’t want to hear “sorry”...” Dead right. Platitudes are too often used as cover for doing nothing. Action not words. “Action this day” as Churchill had written on his desk.
What the residents of North Kensington want is for rbkc Council to be put under special measures, to bring in the Commissioners and auditors that should have been brought on June 14 th 2017. Social housing tenants in rbkc , we are still being treated in the worse possible way, living in unsafe homes with disrepairs and in squalor. The leader of our council has never been inside our flats to see how we live, up until Grenfell she had never even been inside a council flat. Rbkc council do not represent us working class residents in North Kensington, we need to split from Chelsea, because this council is only catering for the million & billionaires and treat us with contempt. We need an independent North Kensington Council.
I want the illegal landlord prosecuted for setting the building ablaze with his 4 refrigerators , for what purpose ?
I think you should stop living on other people’s backs / taxes and move to a property you can afford. Maybe then you should have more reasonable expectations. Most people living in market properties have awful conditions they live in - and a lot of these people are being taxed “to support” people living in council properties. I actually think unless social housing is being paid by millionaires and billionaires explicitly - it should not exist. It is too much of a strain for normal middle class people to pay for normal quality social council housing. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I am being realistic. You shouldn’t have such high expectations given how broken the housing market is for people who pay a lot more and get much less. Yes, it is atrocious that people died and die due to various causes in council housing. But also, I just don’t think you can expect anything else in this situation. Move out somewhere where you can actually afford. Then you will have the leverage to ask for the basics.. like everyone else. And yes, there should be a Revolution and outrage about the housing quality in the UK. Unless this happens, don’t expect anything to change, realistically speaking.
Councils don’t design cladding 🤷🏽♂️
I own an ex-council property in Chelsea and am not aware of any special treatment. I am not a billionaire. The now defunct TMO which presided over the Grenfell disaster had nothing to do with wealthy private homeowners: it was brought in (by John Major, I believe) solely to administer council estates, which had become increasingly difficult to run because they have both leaseholders (ie people who own properties) and tenants (those who rent from the council/TMO). Residents were offered two options: having estates run by a private company, or a TMO. There were regular consultation sessions, which were very well run. I can still hear the main presenter saying: "Going back to council management is NOT an option" - somewhat ironic in view of subsequent events. May I ask: did you attend many of these sessions? The vote was overwhelmingly for a TMO, which was my preferred option. Had we opted for a private option, then Grenfell might not have happened. Private companies with multiple contracts/portfolios are nationally recognised entities with a 'brand' to protect; and they are likely to be wiser to the many pitfalls of major building projects, with established suppliers and experienced staff overseeing similar projects in multiple locations around the country. The shift to a TMO took place around 2005/6, when privatisation had a very bad reputation because of Railtrack, etc. But it is not necessarily a bad thing. I have posted this elsewhere on UA-cam, but I have had multiple dealings with the council/TMO over nearly thirty years and have found most staff polite, attentive and competent. They come from all ethnic groups, reflecting London's demographic.
@bigbinji6145 that's a complete lie. It was one faulty fridge which was likely a manufacturer's fault although the inquiry couldn't decide on this. Stop spreading lies it doesn't help the victims.
If I remember correctly, Emma Dent Coad, the former Labour MP and local councillor, was an active participant in establishing the specification for the cladding and commissioning the work. She is typical of so many people of her ilk, in all political parties, who do their utmost to convince themselves of their complete innocence. It’s all very well for her to talk about a ‘distrust of authority’ but she was an enthusiastic part of that very authority the people are distrustful of.
If this building had been inhabited by the %1 of society with ample cash every single man woman and company involved would be jailed
Not true
Sounds fascist.
@@TimComley very true
@@user-ug8wx5er1w ok then
One definite crime is the wasted 70 million on the enquiry, which was like all such enquiries, a feeding frenzy for the so called legal profession.
Thank you for this discussion. Until we have people-centred governance over business-centred government we won't get substantive change.
Oh - and jailtime. People died and the desk killers whose "culture" caused their deaths need incentivising to think about the consequences of their action/inaction. We have no interest in white collar crime, it seems, but how many suffer and die as a result?
We need the names of the MP's that left the room when the PM spoke on Grenfell ASAP
Sadly, the inescapable truth is that this sort of profit driven man-made tragedy will never stop happening. History is full of them. Titanic, Concord, Thalidomide, Covid etc etc.
you seem very confused
Every word the truth--- nothing has changed. Tenants are either patronised or ignored--- ive workd in housing and lived in ' housing'. The wraps need lifting off asap
I left London a while ago but could see Grenfell from the Shepherds Bush shopping centre I managed at the time. Wasn't the cladding installed by the builder as compensation for construction delay of the ex public housing nearby which had been sold off as private apartments and featured similar cladding? The additional cladding would align the private and public housing in look and feel I thought the story was. The Grenfell committee at the time was maybe seeking some form of compensation? I get that the cladding acted as a flu and changed the fire design of the tower and in retro was non compliant (allegedly) but I only saw that aspect of the tragedy mentioned once in the early aftermath. In Australia $100's of millions of dollars have been spent swopping out cladding due to Grenfell.
I’m so sorry for the victims, but political leaders won’t solve this problem. Simple regulation is the answer. The ruling class aren’t interested
We have become like Americans. Just out for ourselves. We use to be a country for the people not just yourself
Are these victims just going to stand for this nonsense? or are they going to get their own way of justice..
Poor people need to rise up.
@@AnthonyD-yy2in they dont even belong in the country
Just like Hillsborough its taken years for the truth to come out and those responsible to be named. Until there is a root and branch reform of the system both politicly and legally to get to the truth sooner this situation will keep happening. This will mean taking on all the vested interests involved but the interests of ordinary people, the little people must for once take precedence.
calling Grenfell a "scandal" is horrible and so inappropriate
This is not just an issue for social housing. Most housing was built with flammable materials be it in the insulation or the actual cladding. So people bought flats and now have to bear the costs and the consequences of unsafe building standards. Lenders will not approve mortgages for buyers, owners have to pay for re cladding while government and developers and building managers take no responsibility.
The responsible have to be punished people lost theirs lives and no one is going jail ??? Ridiculous
I had to go to the press and fire service as Peabody Housing ignored our concerns about a Stay Put Evacuation Policy in a building internally timber without suitable compartmentation. The fire safety officer Peabody threw the article (newspaper), across the table in a public meeting! Weeks later the Stay Put Notices were still up, the journalist that wrote the article Southwark News, had to phone Peabody to remind them! All post Grenfell. The culture and attitude of these organisationsations are toxic.
At first thought the "Stay Put Evacuation Policy" sounds insane (other than for those that physically can't use the stairs).
I mean, if I knew the building was on fire I'd want to be out.
But false alarms used to be a weekly problem - maybe less so now there are CCTV cameras everywhere - but 25y ago my student hall had several late night "unscheduled evacuation drills a week. Evacuating a building like that is not zero risk.
But still, if there's a fire, it's insane to stay put and ASSume it will be put out.
It was a disgrace and it’s sadly its very systemic in British 🇬🇧 Councils who don’t understand people paying rent are tenants and you are serving them because you take their money
It's the class system in Britian that's the nub of the problem, first and second class citizens don't make for an equal society, and paying lip service to equality whilst retaining the attitude of superiority is what we have always had, and I can't see it changing. I think capitalism feeds on snobbery, on elitism. Truth is that the rich are too often the lowest form of human paradoxically.
There's a concept in psychiatry, everyday genius. That's not egalitarian, but the reality that what makes genius is not taught in top schools, but comes from anywhere. It can't be taught, because nobody knows what makes it. It's generally wiped out by egalitarianism, though.
@@ThomasYoung-my4qi The thinking started in 2008, with thought of a school on the open land. That was under Labour.
Scandal is the wrong word...
I probably take on board the points these ladies make but the heart of the matter looking at the bigger picture is this country’s unwillingness to build on government books high quality but basic specification social housing including flats and demolish old obsolete dwellings but instead we as a country prefer to patch them up and bring them up to the latest fire and thermal spec which is difficult, unsatisfactory and expensive. New build is always resisted because of planning costs and sensitivities- Its b****y nonsense when you think about it- other countries don’t mess about like us
The real issue is self regulation.
surely one part of stopping it happening again is to make sure the people responsible are punished
Stop people swapping fuses for nails?
As we blame the building standards we must also question how so many illegal sublets were in the building, why fire doors were propped open and left open by residents in the block, how many illegal HMO's were in the block and did anyone in the block contribute to the speed at which the fire took hold
00:03 Need for accountability and change in society's attitude towards social housing tenants.
02:20 Systemic failures led to avoidable deaths at Grenfell
06:40 Transparency and oversight of recommendations are crucial to prevent repeat incidents.
09:15 Government and authorities not listening to people's needs.
13:29 Importance of working for tenants' safety and well-being
15:45 Focus on preventing future incidents rather than just assigning blame.
20:02 Need for a new system to address systemic injustices like Grenfell
21:52 Value of people living in social housing is critical
25:40 Changing perceptions of social housing
27:31 Investing in social housing has wide-reaching positive impacts on health, education, and life outcomes.
31:25 Preventing future disasters like Grenfell
Crafted by Merlin AI.
Time and again nothing ever changes. Enquiries are a waste of public money.
Until public enquiry findings are enforced and individuals are made accountable including the individuals conducting the enquiry, then enquiries will remain insanity: it's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Utter madness.
Until you make organisations and individuals fully accountable nothing will ever change. Financial accountability for an organisation is a waste of time.
Making individuals both public services and private organisations financially responsible may make individuals think twice.
Politicians both council and parliamentary MPs should be accountable. Financial penalties and prison for serious offences.
Sadly in ten, or twenty years, nothing will have changed. Without accountability, and then to expect things to change is wishful thinking. It's all spin.
Eric Pickles needs to be held to account, among many others and be sent to prison.
Kensington and Chelsea Council and the Tenant Management Organisation are lucky we live in a relatively civilised country; I can think other countries where those responsible would be dragged out of their building and receive instant retribution for this criminal neglect.
The answer is simple, don’t outsource contracts. Employ the installers and have control over the quality of their work.
So we had at one time the British Institutions that would test and certify products for use in the UK....That ended with the EU as we accepted their rules and still follow them....We need as a nation to do our own certification....It is the same with vehicles that used to be tested at the long abandoned Road Research Centre so now we have car headlamps that are like full on spot lamps and EV's that burst into flames....
Tragic, fire brigade didnt help
either, but the country's bueracrats
who were incompetant for years
have to be blamed. Spending 170
Million pounds over 7 years shows
the total incompetance, but a raft
of judges lawyers court officials
and the rest have made a fortune.
Now who is going to prison.
Who is going to be fined.
I wonder. R
Don’t buy a fridge that spontaneously combusts
“You work for the tenants” is wrong to claim when we are speaking about social housing. You work for the residents of the borough, not for the tenants who pay sub-market rents and result in a net loss for the council, covered by other middle-class residents who are being squeezed due to the fact that millionaires and billionaires in this country are financially protected by the government and “oh, no, they shouldn’t be taxed to pay for the poorest, so it will have to fall and destroy lives of the middle class”. This is atrocious given the lack of economic vertical mobility in the last 30 years in this country. They are getting rid of the middle class by making them pay for the low class - the deprived and impoverished, who quite often are alcoholics and drug abusers and dealers.. not all, but many.
Millionaires are screwed. Any GP is a millionaire for example.
The absolute state of this classism
PUBLIC INQUIRIES Are JUSTICE DENIED . I THINK THEYRE THERE TO GIVE APPEARANCE SOMETHING BEING DONE WHILST BEING INCONSEQUENTIAL .
The answer is simple individuals need to be held accountable for their actions *PERSONALLY*. You cover up the fact your cladding is unsuitable for tall buildings, jail time for you. If you directed someone to do that, again jail time for you. When people understand they are facing jail they will no longer engage in the sort of coverups that lead to these sorts of scandals.
CATHY NEWMAN I AM SOOOOOO ANGRY AT YOU FOR MISREPRESENTING THE VIEWS OF DR PETERSON IN YOUR INTERVIEW ON JAN 16, 2018. Rawwwwwr!
FFS - exactly, PRECISELY, the same panels were fitted to multi-million pound penthouses.
Tragedy as it undoubtedly was, it was never a conspiracy to "burn the poor" or even a negligent "we don't care if they burn".
Documents available the day after on the council website (soon after blocked) showed the planning and consultation process. There was almost universal support for "something to hide the brutalist concrete" of the original structure. It certainly made it look sheek.
So there were flaws (and the panels have been replaced on the high-end properties too now. The materials - for whatever reason - didn't work according to spec. That's actually part of a MUCH wider approval process generally ... small changes get made, and the "type rating" transfers, and over time the cumulative effect ...
I understand the public demands blood - demands witches to burn.
But unless it turns out that a councillor OR supplier knew that the panels were lethal, or that the architects knew they were cutting corners, then it is a witch hunt and not a search for the truth. Indeed, the very fact that EVERY MSM article implies malice says they are looking for a scapegoat.
Insight. Thank you.
Make sure you know who is living there and no sub letting of rented flats
how to stop it happening? the local council and the local mp's that allowed the shortcuts made to be used should all face the sentencing in the full name of the law, councils all over the country for over 20 years have sidestepped the current LAW of health and safety, like councils selling on 15 year old water heaters, just before they legally should be decommissioned as sale of stock to housing associations, and for the housing associations to use them as if they were new stock (this happened in several councils in the north west), these now 25 year old water heaters, 10 years after they were meant to be taken out of service were replaced, but now that leaves 20 year old piping systems made for a time when the immersion heater water heating system was just being phased out, and combi boilers were not quite ready to be given to councils, and thier supporting electric circuits that are still a nightmare
Good that people are getting in trouble, however it’s now easier to warrant throwing money at their fiends…
I do not feel any optimism for the new government and the future...I am sorry to say I do not think they will actually change! By what the government saying, we are in a ''economy black hole!'' So, where is the money to built safe housing? And in fact we need more affordable housing more than ever, nowadays, it is because the young people is actually cannot afford to buy houses! This is a very bad and dangerous cycle to carry one. And Angela Rayner saying there is no timeline for fixing those dangerous housing neither! God save England!
Problem with how those products were tested allows those product manufacturers to create a test environment that is perfect. What happens on site is not what happens in a test centre. I have worked in construction for years selling products, race to the bottom promotes using inferior products by manufacturers who would do anything to cover that fact up with false information and claims regarding fire performance. Test facilities need to be held accountable as well, build the product exactly how it will be built on site, then perform the test. Only then will you get data that is relevant to real world installation. Shocking that all those involved did what they did right from specification writing all the way through to installation and sign off. May those souls rest in peace and those family and friends get their justice.
Inner London is a Labour MP stronghold. Why didn't those Labour MPs take any action to help and protect those working class residents prior to the fire? Were they too busy having their Islington dinner parties and discussing identity politics and transgenderism?
Kensington and Chelsea is a tory council pal its on them
Working class 😂 most were illegal migrants or other migrants who didn't work
@@bassekaman8315 Emma Dent Coad was the Labour MP for Grenfell at the time of the fire. Pal.
Let’s move on .
Grenfell isn't a "scandal" it was a tragic event... Who writes these titles?!
Expect more, not less. Building code inspectors should start with blueprints and list of contract journeymen. Oversight from begining to completion.
The clad sheathing firm has already been queried on sales and distribution?
All started under Blair but you'll not mention that.
The fire brigade have to accept a large amount of responsibility for telling folk to stay put rather than getting out......
No-one ever mentions the migrant who caused the fire 🤔
Exactly
It’s only talk!
Rich and poor people are always let off because they can afford these barristers.
7 years and the Mayor turned his back on them.
What is going on!!!!
We have,MP’s who are in power and don’t want to change anything because they are Landlords, and they don’t care about, just for profit profits!
Ban council housing
It’s a Disgrace
Hmmm why isn’t the witch hunt focusing on identifying the actual person’s and cause of the fire itself ? There’s some covering up of the living conditions within the towers that contributed to this tragedy…!
It was alleged there was vast overcrowding which could have impacted
Subletting.
Cameron and Clegg should be in the dock they scrapped all the safeguards
Too much fear of accountability and constant gaslighting and playing passing the buck with a hot potato.
👏👏👏
Classism is far worse and more systemic than racism.
What happened to the idiot who started the fire?
He was Muslim so couldn’t be held responsible
Reading more about this elsewhere ... as regards the stats.
So LL was present for ALL the cases presented to the court. Statistially that sounds damning.
UNTIL
You realise the number of cases which were excluded from the "statistical analysis" , which, coincidentally, she was not present for.
Mmm ... if you exclude all the tails it's statistically all but certain the coin always comes down heads!
NOTE: Does not prove she was innocent, BUT it is yet another example how "case building" against someone presumed to be guilty can lead to statistical fraud.
Wow these women can rule the world. Love them
But could they build a tower block
😂😂
@belk. Are you implying that the only people working in architecture and the construction industry are all men? No women? Dear oh dear.
@@miloandalfie5509 yes, how many women do you see on building sites?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Is it too late to blame the far right.
Oh please, just shut up and show some respect.
I blame the FAR LEFT that allows idiots who cant speak English to set fire to a building
@@gregrot Oh please, just shut up and stop your pearl-clutching.
Come on, it's never too late to blame the far right (average citizen)!
@@gregrot did the 70 Million bonanza for lawyers blame the Far Right ( whoever they may be ? )
I appreciate that human life should never put at danger and that criminal conviction should be pursued if and when human life has been lost due to negligence among many other reasons. However, it is also difficult not to acknowledge the fact that if you’re not paying for the property and it is managed by a poorly financed council (like all councils in the UK are and have been after Thatcher’s era), you SHOULD EXPECT that you may die because of something like this. To claim and expect anything else is unrealistic. I am sorry to raise this unpopular opinion. But there is nothing free. And I am also sorry to destroy the romantic view that the people living in those properties are angels - they are not. A lot of them are exploiting the system which lends itself to be financially exploited by the very few who for one reason or another have decided that they will not work and will live on someone else’s back. Well, if that’s your decision (and I appreciate that sometimes or often it is not a person’s decision but a circumstance) - then you should also expect to take on all the consequences of that decision. Let’s be honest, the UK property market is BROKEN EVEN FOR PEOPLE PAYING THEIR OVER-INFLATED RENT AND ARE LIVING IN “MARKET” PROPERTIES. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FOR SOCIAL / COUNCIL HOUSING???
Most of the occupants of the tower could easily be homes in their own countries.
Nice to take away right to buy she’s a woman of the people
Get Andrew Parker on the case
So, the story that comes out of the inquiry is that most if not all the people in Grenfell would NOT have died if the woman in charge of the fire had evacuated the building immediately. The people in Grenfell died because of London Fire Brigade mistakes, not because of some fucking cladding. But all the stories and videos want to talk about is the cladding. Funny that.
Why do C4 News keep trying to put this class war twist on this tragedy, a fire that could have happened in any similar building.
74 people died in social housing thats why its about class
@@bassekaman8315
So what if it was social housing?
The same could have happened in hundreds of private apartment blocks with similar cladding.
@12:38 makes me realise so even if actions / solutions are discussed it will still be dependant on the vote 🤦🏼♂️😂. Seems the power is more with the elected party than the people.
Abolish Corporatism.
The odious Dent-Coad. Utterly repellant.
Step1. Vote labour out
Money talks and Bullshit walks.
Super simple Channel 4. We hold you, and every other authoritative body accountable. It'd stop very quickly.
Well you are certainly "super simple"
The twin towers wasn’t rebuilt
Remember that
Angela Rayner is out of her depth. Expect nothing from her. Starmer and his ruling clique have made it clear they want her gone. She's ben dead in the water ever since she called the Tories scum.
Why punish her for telling the truth about the corrupt tory freeloaders
@graham. Is it because she's a bright woman? A woman of the Left? Or a woman in power. She Left school at 16, now she's Deputy Prime Minister. Sit down 🙄
@@miloandalfie5509
She's little more than an immature, mouthy activist,
She's totally out of her depth.
@@robertpodbery242
She's pretty scummy herself.....it ain't just 'Tories' who are freeloaders 👍🏻😁
I@@apemoon1731Not arguing, or defending, I dont like her or starmer, but what exactly?
Hard left woman doing no one any favours making it up as she goes along
Is this what Channel 4 calls a diverse panel LOL. If GBnews had 3 white blokes talking about it you'd be crying to the OFCOMmunists
24,000 views and only 196 comments
Do you reckon they’re censoring much…😂
No interest.
Pmsl these people in high places will never listen it’s there friends in business with them.
And stop virtue signalling.
You all are as bad as each other,
Your not working class and have no idea
The greed and contempt for working class social housing tenants started with thatcher and continued with Blair and brown. Got even worse with Osborn and Cameron and reached sick and twisted proportions under Johnson. There are people in this cesspit mainly of Tory making will never again have trust in government or the judiciary ever again.
As the C4 programme exposed they tried for years to get rid of the cladding. It was put up really badly as well leaving huge holes in people's external walls!
No surprise No excuses
WIthout illegal immigration that probably wouldn't of happened
My god 20 years ago I was working on sites that where such low standards and poor management and working practices this was bound to happen.
The amount of back handers and brown envelopes etc.
but no one listens as big companies make millions. You are numbers to these companies and to the government.
They do not care no one from the management will go to jail etc.
but lessons will be learnt.
Same old ball 💩.
7 years to find out what I could have told you in ten minutes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Country is joke and the rich and politicians are laughing at us.
Precisely this. Great comment of the truth. Working class - who cares about then really?
Well said, treacherous lot.