Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed the video, be sure to leave a LIKE! Consider joining my PATREON if you'd like to further support the channel & get access to exclusive content and perks! www.patreon.com/nerdcookies
I love how Bene Gesserit are supposed to have ‘plans measured in centuries’ yet in the show they fail to plan a week ahead and are constantly surprised by some very predictable circumstances.
The Guild needed to be in the films. The ending was severely damaged by not having them involved. The brief appearance at the beginning of the first movie was awesome, but then poof they were gone. They should have at least discussed them and their stranglehold on the Imperium, their blackmailing of the Fremen, the way they hamper open warfare by charging prohibitive amounts for transporting military equipment, etc. A few lines of dialogue would have done it, but that's not DV's style. We needed more perfume ad shots of the desert, I guess.
After watching Prophecy, I assumed their take was that Mentats were not yet that common. We're set in a time of 10BG-25AG with the first Mentat school developed between 68-5BG and a failure rate of 35% for the best candidates. This could explain the lack on Mentats in Prophecy, but I still would have expected the Emperor to have a Mentat. But there really needed to be a Guild presence in this story helping the audience to understand just how powerful and important the Guild are.
But the bene geserit are already trusted advisors to all the house leaders and emperor, face dancers are already a thing, the fremen exist too somehow, and "the spice must flow". I vehemently disliked how they pick and choose elements of dune instead of telling a holistic story
Problem is that that timelines dont work in this universe, you can throw it out of the window, they were not in show people show writers didnt write them in.. there is no other reason
One thing really loved from the Lynch version was the meeting between the emperor and the navigator. That single meeting told you everything you needed to know about the power and weight the guild wielded.
@@thesean3194 I always thought it was hilarious how the navigator handlers made a half-ass attempt to clean up the slime or whatever it was, when the navigator left the room.
I thought the second and rather more brief meeting between the Guild representative and the emperor in Lynch's Dune was more telling when they basically told him what he was going to do and directly threatened him with bodily harm if he didn't comply. ONLY the Guild could get away with that in the Dune universe.
Yeah this whole thing about the truth Sayers having to put an empress on the throne because of some nebulous prophecy really fell flat for me. You have the rivalries between the Bene Geserit and the spacing guild, the rivalry between the emperor and the landsraad. So much potential for political and economic intrigue just being left on the table.
I feel like they avoided the politics side very heavily due to the fact that a lot of people HATED the prequel trilogy of Star Wars for that exact reason. For some reason however, Game of Thrones, which is heavy on the politics of the realm was an absolute success before the final season.
Preach it! I’m honestly shocked how little they’ve had any screen time in the last few productions. 1) Mentats 2) Guild 3) Ginaz and other schools Let’s show some actual Transhumanism. Biological style. Also this is Hollywood. They do drugs. They don’t understand drugs.
What I truly appreciate about these videos is that, despite being overall critical of the show, you still display optimism for the future of it. That's kind of where I'm at, overall I liked it, but I think it can be much better than the season we've gotten so far.
When the Atreides kid said "the spice must flow" I physically cringed. Like wtf does that even mean, you're snorting this stuff in night clubs how important can this possibly be?
The Atriedes kid was also about to blow up a room full of people in a terrorist attack (which would have forever ruined the family name) if not for Desmond apparently catching a nuke delivering weapon with his bare hands before it could go off. Ugh, this show is stupid as fuck.
I think it's because, in general, there isn't a ton to draw from for the Guild. They're a secretive group, and even though they're a major power in th dynamics of the Dune universe, Herbert intentionally never went into much detail about them. Even though Prophecy is a "new" story, the writers still had to use *something* as a creative reference; naturally, if not the Great Houses or Choam, then the only logical last organization from the early days of the empire is the Bene Gesserit (since other orgs like the Bene Tleilax and Honored Matres don't exist yet)
The problem I see is that Hollywood has created a series set 10000 years before Paul Atreides, but wants everything to be recognizsble by people who watched Villeneuve‘s films. So we have the same „look“, the same concerns, essentially the same society. This is like imagining we today have the same concerns as the ancient Egyptians, whereas we don’t even live in the same society as 30 years ago
One of the big problems I have with this show is it being set 10,000 years before Franks books. That's a long time. Like way longer from ancient Egypt until now. But the technology kinda looks the same. Or if you like, has been 'imagined' the same. As opposite as they are to the Frank universe, the club scenes did give the series a slightly more primal look. I would have preferred something less technically sophisticated.
I remember one line referenced that “the rules of kanly were followed” and I guess we’re all just supposed to understand that and all that entails even though none of the adaptations (that I recall) go into what that’s all about.
I agree that this show is a mixed bag. In my opinion the biggest mistake is setting the show ten thousand years before the events of Paul's jihad. This show takes place less than a century after the Thinking Machines were overthrown. At this point all the Great Schools are in their infancy but the show depicts them fully formed. To bring up Imprinters and Face Dancers is way too soon. If the show took place a century before Paul it would make more sense. But i still enjoyed the show and look forward to Season 2.
What struck me about Dune prophecy was the very high degree it was just "people standing around in room talking". Almost never did a character go to a location where they were not expected or highly familiar with.
I was guessing that they could not include the Spacing Guild, and gave us the ultra basic ixian etc because stuff like that was off limits until Dennis brings them in to Messiah in more of a big reveal versus in a show that most people won't even watch. Like, I'm figuring they probably had a whole list of things they had to avoid or could not go into detail on. Navigator's design might not even be finalized yet, etc... Hopefully they will be able to dig deeper into the world building in Season 2. (Which I am still surprised is happening haha... Season 1 was such a clumsy mixed bag) And hopefully WAY less nightclub scenes. Thanks Elaine!
This shows fails completely in the basic aspects of using and promoting the Dune lore. It’s another generic space story with magical witches with a secret agenda (Acolyte vibes). The right moment already passed away. The opportunity was lost in time to show the best elements and basic ideas to the series audiences. The Guild and the mentats are an amazing element of balance but they don’t care about those, maybe they think it’s too masculine and they erase them for that reason.
lol have you even read any of the first seven frank herbert books the bene jesserit push men around for like thousands of years to create paul a balance of feminine and masculinity i don’t think anyone was afraid of “masculine” traits of the books or whatever culture war crap you’re talking about
The thing that really bothered me about the show was that it made everything look so small. The Sisterhood school looks like Hogwarts and the Landsraad looked a local council meeting, very disappointing.
I don't even think the emperor needed a mentat because it wasn't established in the story that he did need one. But do you know what the show constantly showed that he absolutely did need? I'll take Security for 1,000, Alex. Where was the security in the royal palace? How is there nobody protecting the emperor or guarding the prison... or anything else? I hope the next guy learns a lesson and hires some guards.
While I agree with most of your takes on this show, a few stood out to me that I feel MIGHT be misinformed or from overlooking certain details of the original novels. Many things in Herbert’s saga were left open for interpretation. One thing that was supposed to be made very clear was that humans are flawed, even messiah figures. 1. I think it would be natural that some people would still have versions of thinking machines during this time. I mean, look at the Tleilaxu, to think that they didn’t still hold onto some remnant of thinking machine while developing their twisted mentats and other scandalous endeavors would be kind of weird to me. They seem to be deeply morally corrupted. Also, just like anything else involving humans, there will always be an opposing force on any and every subject. Think of the old saying “rules are meant to be broken.” To think that no one had thinking machines in the 10 thousand years before Paul’s awakening is kind of ridiculous. That being said, during this time it would make the most sense that there were still thinking machines floating around, especially if they existed in the thousands of years to come. They were outlawed and they were defeated in the war, Herbert never explicitly states that no thinking machines remained. 2. I’ve always viewed spice as a double entendre for both resources(primarily oil, Arrakis representing the Middle East) and psychedelics(mind expanding drugs) yes, psychedelics and other narcotics can have beneficial medical properties, but most people do use them as a party drug. I never once thought the stuff they were snorting was spice, I thought it was just some drug that lacks importance other than its symbol of “a good time.” 3. If I’m not mistaken, there was a general distrust for mentats during this time, and they were still adapting as well as growing from within. Much like the sisterhood right after the war they weren’t as wide spread. This show takes place during the time where humans hadn’t fully adapted to their “true potential.” Not seeing Mentats wasn’t much of concern for me especially since their order wasn’t even formed until after the war unlike the sisterhood which had a predecessor the “Sorceresses of Rossak.” I figured the Mentats weren’t a true order yet due to the time this story takes place. “The exact origin of the Mentat's order is outlined in Frank Herbert's Chapterhouse: Dune novel and it is attributed to Gilbertus Albans. In the Legends of Dune novels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson Albans was trained by the thinking machine, Erasmus.” - Dune Wiki - I find it hard to believe that people who’s legacy was built on the destruction of thinking machines would so quickly have members of an order who’s teachings originated from them. 4. No matter how valuable spice is during this time, the possibility of thinking machines being used in a rebellion outweighs any riches to the people whose ancestors fought against them. Plus, there is an entire planet filled with it, so when they are dumping the narcotics I wasn’t that surprised. I have seen drug raids where the DEA does the same thing, it’s supposed to represent the carelessness of how SOME police might search through your stuff. The spice itself wasn’t the crime, it was the potential for insurgency. So yea, makes sense they would carelessly dump spice searching for a thinking machine. It’s not like they were there to confiscate it in the first place. OTHER THAN THAT, I 100% agree and I love your channel. It has inspired me to reread the first 3 books several times. Your content is awesome! I have a few gripes with this show but the above mentioned were not any of those. I disliked the openness of Valya using her new found powers to kill those who stood in her way. The sisterhood ALWAYS operated in complete secrecy and until “the voice” was mastered people remained blissfully unaware of their true power. Which leads me to HOW DID VALYA LEARN TO USE THE VOICE. Did she alone come up with it? Is it a telepathic power that the Sorceresses of Rossak were trying to hone in on? I felt the lack of explanation jarring… I found it ridiculous how quickly they had infiltrated not only the great houses but the royal house especially. I still don’t understand HOW TF Desmond survived the worm, UNLESS it was “divine intervention” by the God Emperor himself. Despite these gripes, I still enjoyed it a lot, I thought it was an amazing show and representation of the early Landsraad.
I seem to be in a small camp of viewers who are enjoying this show 😅 That said, I fully agree here: Spice isn't being spoken about nearly enough, but I'm assuming that the upcoming season taking place (atleast in part) on Arakkis should bring the subject up more often.
i agree with 98% of your takes here, the one thing i disagree with is i think the amount of thinking machines in this series makes a decent amount of sense when it comes to the fact that we are in year 150~ out of a 20k timeline, if anywhere in this timeline id think to see thinking machines it would be right around and after the time humanity defeated them, not 1000 years after. imperium at 150ish years into the new norm, it makes sense to me some people or planets might not be fully on bored, (ex house richeese) with the removal of thinking machines at this point. id rather focus on other things but this did make sense to me just because of the time this series takes place in. what do yall think?
I, too, can be patient with a second or third generation removed from the enslavement, not fully understanding the true dangers of thinking machines. Humans, in general, are prideful. I'm sure many would believe they could control them.
I was trying to piece together the timeline of the series. The wiki says Dune Prophecy is set during the BG (Before Guild) timeline, the Battle of Corrin was 88BG, so the setting is roughly around the time the Folding Space Company renames to the Spacing Guild. Tula brings her vengeance on the Atriedes in 3BG. Javicco becomes Padisha Emperor in 9AG. Here the wiki (on Fandom) skips ahead a few centuries. Guessing ages of the characters it is probably 29-35AG. The Bene Gesserit computer is dismantled in 4BG. So appears there is some adjustment to the timeline going on in the TV series. Which I am ok with, as I find a lot of the Brian Herbert stuff problematic to the what was established via the Appendixes in the original series.
Elaine!!! Great video!!! Huzzah! 🙌🏻 I didn’t watch the show and I’m a Frank Herbert books and the movies/SyFy fan. No Mentats? Dumping Spice? The dumping Spice would have broken my suspension of disbelief in the story🤷🏻♂️that’s literally unbelievable
You are so right N.C.! They should have a guild navigator that got expelled or went awaal and is like on stakes to help him score spice to see if he can survive the detox. He could be whoring out prescients for spice or money to buy spice. A super smart drug addict detoxing is a fun character and it only requires good acting. And I think they should do a Sven inside a harvester where we stay with the characters after they get gulped down like they survive for one or two minutes thinking they can many get out before it ingests them. Or have like o e girl actually escape and survive. That would be so rad and it would add so much info about different parts of the lore. Thanks for posting a video that really got me thinking about the possibilities! Your awesome NC 🌊🏄♀️🏄♂️
I thought it strange that once the emperor dismissed the head of the order of the sisters , that the rest of the houses didn't turn on their truthsayers. People of the courts watch the royals in many cultures very closely and follow fashion trends and other things, but especially when the head mother is basically kicked out you'd think that would cause waves of distrust throughout the houses.
They also want people not familiar with book, to be familiar with face dancers , ixians and all the other greatness Dune has too offer before Dune Messiah the movie
i still think they are holding the navigators in reserve for a messiah reveal. but it would be nice to get some interactions with the bankers and bureaucrats that are the public facing parts of the guild. definitely need more mentats. would be interesting if next season was more focused around any of those groups with the sisters being relegated to the b plot.
I feel like the the guild is being sidelined due to Villanueva and the writers/designers not quite being dead set on how they want God Emperor Leto to be visually represented, and in tandem, the navigators and their Spice induced transformations. Probably want them to be somewhat similar in look and style for continuity
As for the spacing guild , I wonder if the creators were holding off and waiting for what Danny Villeneuve envisions on how the guild would be portrayed? Plus I wonder if their focus kept shifting on trying to tell a character story at the expense of world building but also wanting to give fan service? 6 episodes probably shackled them when 10 would have given them room to develop the story further.
I agreed with all your points. As I fill like the shows does need to expand on more of the Duniverse lores. It is a pretty interesting show but it needs to show and explain more of the world of the time 10,000 years prior to Dune’s established technologies and culture. Come on Dune: Prophecy Creators & Writers. You can do better than that. S1 has hooked us in. Now S2 should get us in deeper and broader into the Duniverse. Give us Fans what we want. Make it the best TV show ever for 2025.
I expected more world building and establishing of the different factions that make the empire a delicate balance of power that could crumble if too much power is applied. Then season 2 could spend more time on intrapersonal relationships. It didn’t use the time wisely with season one.
not introducing the Spacing Guild and the Mentats is a GIANT missed opportunity. not only would we see the way humans adapt without thinking machines but also they had a window to flush out the tension between the Mentats and the Benegeserit. from what I read in Frank Herbert's Dune, the two did not trust each other and I would've loved to see that tension explored in this show
It's just All modern storytelling. We want this but the majority of the movie/series watching public don't want the way things were told they want something to put their ideologies into. The whole: Don't tell us a story, tell me how it means to me. My desires, my ideas, my wants.
@@Christian-gy6fkyeah it was like dumping countless lives lost (to produce it) and entire planet's worth of wealth... The show jumped the shark this episode and whoever these writers were should never be used again. Blatant disrespect for the source material (obviously never even read it) and shockingly bad levels of writing and logic (Desmond is in a multi-storied building that collapsed in a 30-bomb explosion. If his character can lift himself out of that sheer amount of rubble (metric tons of concrete blocks, metric tons metal structures)... There is no reason to even attempt to kill this dude. He might as well just State to the audience, "I am literally an overpowered Marvel superhero and quite literally nothing in this universe can in anyway affect my actions because I can survive anything without taking any lasting damage (think Superman, Deadpool, Wolverine etc).
Maybe they are holding off on the guild so that DV can show it in Messiah. That is to say, if they ever intend to. So far, there has barely been any mention of them at all, let alone any reference to their importance. I'm a little puzzled by what appears to be this purposeful neglect.
I couldn't agree more. The great revolt was universal in scale. Second maybe to Paul's jihad. Maybe even more important because it changes the course of humanity forever. So yes it doesn't work. The reaction to anyone having or using thinking machines should have been major.
They still have a chance is just season 1 probably will have more two seasons, and another spin offs will be release as well. So expecting everything just fast don't make sense
The Frank Herbert “Dune” universe is beloved in no small part because of the richness of Frank’s writing style and clarity of vision. That’s why many people, myself included, don’t understand and don’t particularly enjoy poorly-executed lore modification when what most of us want is a visual interpretation of the books, at least the “Canonical Six”. I don’t want vast modifications to the Butlerian Jihad, thinking machines, the political balances of the various factions and ignoring factions such as the Spacing Guild. I don’t care about various director’s “artistic vision” - I want to see Frank’s brought to life, similar to “Dune Part One” and the Peter Jackson “Lord of The Rings” trilogy - why is that so much to ask?
I agree they fumbled the spacing guild and humans plight to learn how to navigate without sentient computers. However, Spice wasn't worth a ton in the begining because there was so muuch of it. By the fourth book a single suitcase of spice was worth kingdoms.
They really keep messing up with simple delivery, like citing when the order of mentat was formed. Something as small as that gives at least an impression that they have a coveted space in the imperium and give some fan service. All the fan service was stagnant, like they rolled something out just to be like "this is a thing." It really feels like they just cliff notes'ed it together.
I agree with so much you say in regards to this series that I'll likely never watch. The problem is that we give a rat's ass about what happens in the Dune canon. We appreciate the original work for what it is, and accept its and Herbert's flaws. The production people, the studios, the money... They do not. At 8:35 You say "inspire them to read the books". That's not the point of this series. The point is to reap whatever profit can be made from the IP. The series isn't even really an expansion in Villeneuve's movies, as much as it just borrows the movie's aesthetics to attach itself to the movie for the sake of marketing. The people making the series don't care if anyone picks up the books; they don't make money from the books. If anything, they want people to avoid the books, so they can diverge from the source as much as needed with as little backlash as possible.
I guess depicting something as complicated as a Guild Navigator, would strain the production budget. I wonder how many of the Dune books the producer read before taking on this project?
It's too bad they didn't have the vision and patience of the writers of The Wire. Each season focusing on a specific element of the Dune-iverse. Instead, they opted for the GoT model.
This story is more about the Sisterhood than spice. I’m OK with not seeing too much about it. Also, just because a revelation throws something off, doesn’t mean that all the people are done with it. Think about what happened after the US civil war, the French Revolution and the breakup of the Soviet Union. Ex-slaves became sharecroppers, the French eventually end up with an Emperor and Russia democracy looks much like the old Soviet system with influence over most satellite states. It took the US system around a hundred years to progress. It took almost the same amount of time before France truly got rid of a monarch. We still have yet to see what is going on with Russia. I do find it credible that thinking machines are still around. The empress might be an expression of how some call themselves religious but are more interested in power and/or wealth than living their religion.
The Dune Universe is simply to complicated to try to get it all in one series. And once again I think they should have started to explain it all with Vorian Atreides as central character as a guide through all the aspects of that universe. He was already there with the Titans, with the machines and the machine wars and far beyond till even Dune: Prophecy
Huge book fan (at least Frank’s books) - and I think shoes and movies ignore the guild because they don’t do anything. Sure they are this powerful political component - but until Edric they don’t have any real players of influencing the plot. It’s like doing a world war 2 movie and focusing on the motor pool and rear echelon logistics staff instead of spies and generals and battles.
Like Rings of Power, Dune Prophecy's writers are either not smart enough or lack the creative imagination (or both) to weave the actual Dune mythos into a compelling narrative.
Its hard to write scifi and fantasy if you havent read books on them and passionate about them, its EXTRA HARD to write Tolkien or Herbert world stories. You see most of the writers on these, I dont know how they were picked but they arent interested on our "nerd shit", they probably wanted to be tv writer for soap or drama, maybe write YA or drama stories. You can see it in these shows. They werent the ones going through libraries looking for great scifi books or re-read their favorite books. They didnt talk about them with their friends played pen&paper RPs, video games etc. basically they were just normies who wanted to be in the "biz" and hook onto anything which was just popular.
Some people are to easily pleased is all I can say. The show failed on all levels, especially given the amount of material to draw from and the success of the two Dune films. I asked my friends and work colleagues about the show? Many were unaware had never heard about it, those that had seen it hated it never got past episode 2. One person at work had watched all 6 episodes 'he’s a glutton for punishment’ he actually sat and watched all seasons of the dreadful Star Trek Discovery😵💫? Most people were confused and bored in equal measures, 'where’s Paul? If those two women are called Harkonnen why aren’t they bald? Where’s the Baron will he be in this?…Etc! Lacklustre characters poorly realised environments, poor writing and dialogue and plot points and history that made no sense? Add to that the annoying cast of plumby voiced actresses straight from central casting. Actors who would more fittingly belong in 'Eastenders’ ( an awful long running Cockney soap opera set in the east end of London on the BBC.) who on earth cast a scouser ( person from Liverpool) as the Atreides weapons trainer? The very moment he opened his mouth it immediately destroys any sense of place or wonder, drags you out of that futuristic environment. He looks like he accidentally wandered onto the wrong studio lot and was simply ushered in to wardrobe and handed some lines to say. He was actually hired by his agent to play a dodgy scouser car thief on a gritty kitchen sink drama he’s a 'scally from a council estate in Toxteth Liverpool ready to Knick some cars and sell you some wacky baccy. All the people I asked had actually gone to the cinema to watch the Dune films on IMAX and loved them especially the second one. This they didn’t like.👎
The emphasis on the Bene Gesserit in this series is nothing more than displaying the strong female role. Which has been fashionable in this brave new world or ours 🙄 Dune is about the political high-wire balance between the Imperium, the Guild, and the Landsraad, full stop. You’re absolutely right about that. One note on the Mentats. From what I understand about the timeline in this series is that the Butlerian Jihad was only about 200 or less years before. Has the institution of the Mentats already been established prior to the Jihad? Two-hundred years is hardly enough time to turn humans into bio-computers. So, I can see why Mentats were not inserted into this series. One thing I love about his series is they stayed faithful to the look of Denis Villeneuve’s Dune adaptation.
With all the corporate shenanigans going on at HBO/Max I doubt anything decent coming out of them. 6 to 8 episodes for thier recent series seasons is disappointed.
I feel like no matter what was produced people would trash it. Give it a chance, at least it is a start and not a terrible start. Try to lift it up and draw viewers in. Give some support and positivity so that the show can continue, improve and grow. We can't expect unrealistic perfection out of the box.
I was so excited with the high production values in episode one and the acting but the first season let me down and I walked away. Such a wasted opportunity … half assed effort by the writers and showrunners …
If you read the prequels and the inbetweenquels you would know that they would be repulsed toward anything that simulates how the human 🧠 worked, and even more so with full on artificial intelligences. There also would be those who would be mortified.
Arakis wasn’t even a very key location in that period of time. Also the butlerian jihad happened what ? 150 years ago, but there’s almost no progression in the setting of the imperial system. That’s like saying that 10000 years from now nothing will fundamentally change how things work in our society today and that makes no sense at all. Dune is supposed to be a mystery planet where people obviously have some use for it but it’s still not a particularly interesting place to be
Mentats and Navigators are primarily if not exclusively male roles and this show is anything that about male power. Given that premise the idea is to hook an audience then introduce female mentats and possibly navigators if not the first of each kind and blowing off anyone who disagrees
its never stated that mentats are exclusively male, same goes for the swordmastes (there were females from both). idk why the guild prefers males, the first navigator was female. its possible that females have higher failure rates than males, and the process is very expensive (uses a lot of spice), so they are hedging their bets. it could also be that they often get possessed much like the bg abomination. the guild draws from its own lower ranks for navigator candidates and doesn't include females to further increase the chances of successfully creating a navigator.
The complete dearth of competence and intellectual prowess rampant in the current crop of writers in Hollywood, coupled with the bizarre ideology of "wokeness," dooms any production no matter how rich the source material.
People like drugs, that will never change. Also they live/work on the capitol and most of them are very wealthy. Spice is easy to get on the capitol, that is not shocking.
Hopefully they saw what worked and what didn't and come back stronger on season 2. I know people hate it but Rings of power season 2 was much better then season 1.
I appreciate your analysis of Prophecy, but there's only so much lore building that can be done in a 6 episode run. The mistake or decision to limit the production is the problem......not the writing or production.
I get why thinking machines are treated like they're not this dangerous thing everyone respects. I think its important to note that everyone we see is like, the highest powers in the galaxy. The rebels are all like high members of the great houses. The sentiment I got is that its the rich people saying "yeah I mean we beat the machines and we control them now, obviously little things like toys arent a big deal" Even when the toy is released, it scares and unnerves everyone, and they wait until the Emperor signals that the situation is "under control" and can be overlooked. I think this just shows how people just are, without the kind of all-encompassing fanaticism that Dune later becomes known for. I assumed Desmond and his crusade against machines and total hard line willing to kill and torture anyone who has anything to do with machines would be what ends up cementing the idea and the seriousness with which its taken later on. They just kill and spread fear and manipulate culture until people either get it, or are dead. If anything, this is the one thing that made sense to me. People are stupid, every corruption spreads with incremental changes. If the toy is fine, maybe a little more is fine, if that little more is fine, maybe dangerous tools can be controlled by responsible people, and whos to say how responsible you really need to be, maybe you can control it oops we got enslaved again. I feel like we're seeing the times before people *really* start taking the OC bible really seriously. They're in "I mean it's just a toy, a toy can't hurt you" mode, and everyone else just kinda follows the laws the great houses are supposed to be enforcing themselves publicly, but which they ignore and skirt internally.
My thought about Desmond causally giving the Harkon a "bump" is about the same as a millionaire having a coke plate to share out for guests. The club scene might a low rent place for the imperial children but it's low rent where they can walk without fear or guards. You nailed it we are watching the 1% of the 1% in the galaxy. Personally I really liked the show and look forward to the next season.
@christopherkowalczyk4405 yeah I'm liking it so far There are weird things, like it feels odd to me how established they feel when it's only 100 or so years after the jihad. I went and looked at the canon timeline and it might actually make sense why the guild isn't mentioned so much, if we really are 100ish years after the jihad, apparently the guild like.../just/ formed, or hasn't even yet for another 80ish years. The years are literally labelled B.G. and A.G. (before and after guild) and Dune apparently takes place 10,000 or so A.G. and the jihad was 200 B.G., I don't remember exactly when the show takes place but I swear they said like 120 years after the butlerian jihad. There are people shown alive who participated in it. It's like, some things make sense, and some things don't. It's weird to hear them talk about Shai Hulud and Fremen and all that so casually, it feels like not much would change in 10,000+ years. Maybe that's what galactic stability actually looks like? If it's 120 years after the jihad, the guild wouldn't even exist yet. Maybe they just figured out space travel. Apparently that happened 80 B.G., so like...it would have had to be like the very first time they'd travelled so easily. I dunno, just feels weird but it seems like a very good series to me.
@@christopherkowalczyk4405 plus yeah, the spice thing threw me off at first, but I'm just realizing this would be just after Harkonnens were exiled or whatever. The guy was talking about selling whale fur, maybe he really is just amazed to have access to culture where spice is available so readily. But it's weird that I had the same thought like "something's off about this scene". Maybe it was too rushed, they showed alot of stuff and established alot of characters and concepts and it's hard to just make sense of the world.
its sort of like prohibition, everyone still wants booze even though its illegal. ix and richese are al capone right now. the emperor was clearly weak on the machine issue. now that he is dead i think its time to send in the butlerian inquisition.
This show was bad, top to bottom, and all the way through!! It's a 4 out of 10 in my opinion, a week 4 at that. This was so disappointing, I expect much more from HBO. PENGUIN 🐧 Was a huge surprise being so good and engaging in every episode. But this is No Bueno!!
I very much saw the potential of DUNE Prophecy but it bordered on being completely unwatchable. It really only worked because of the goodwill lent from the Dune films and books. Otherwise DUNE Prophecy was\is unworthy of it's namesake. Potential, poorly; no, VERY poorly executed. I'm admittedly a little mad about it because I love Dune and WANTED this show to be a banger.
when show runners assume that the viewer knows why the spice is most import sustenance in the galaxy... . they never explain it. (in the films too) If they go on a lot about the machines of the past, why didn't they JUST MAKE a machine war series instead of this tv drivel scrap this series and do machine war. "stand on your own" someone should've told Disney about that with star wars . they've got nothing to show but just leaning on past greats . the state of all things sci-fi and fantasy films is in a sorry state in these days ( thank for mentioning the bit in the film which i missed where they actually explain the worth of spice ... a 5 second piece in a film) ARGH!!! sorry for rant
Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed the video, be sure to leave a LIKE! Consider joining my PATREON if you'd like to further support the channel & get access to exclusive content and perks! www.patreon.com/nerdcookies
are all the writers of raised by wolves working on this BS? because now you know how fallout true fans felt about the shit tv adaptation
I love how Bene Gesserit are supposed to have ‘plans measured in centuries’ yet in the show they fail to plan a week ahead and are constantly surprised by some very predictable circumstances.
long game political plans measured in centuries make folks super uncomfortable irl
To be fair.. this bene Gesserit is 10,000 years less skilled and trained than the one we come across in the Dune Movies..
space soap opera for normies. people forget that HBO is in the business of streaming not sophisticated literature
@@solarydays Exactly, you got it. Thats what it is, literally written by soap writers and it shows.
Consider yourself lucky. Us over here in Middle Earth are dealing with Rings of Power. Nothing can salvage that.
Then there’s West World.
Or Foundation. Or Wheel of Time.
Thanks for reminding me that things can be a lot worse.
@@enochlamont877"Foundation" TV series... The horror! The horror!
@@bgarcia8929😂
The Guild needed to be in the films. The ending was severely damaged by not having them involved. The brief appearance at the beginning of the first movie was awesome, but then poof they were gone. They should have at least discussed them and their stranglehold on the Imperium, their blackmailing of the Fremen, the way they hamper open warfare by charging prohibitive amounts for transporting military equipment, etc. A few lines of dialogue would have done it, but that's not DV's style. We needed more perfume ad shots of the desert, I guess.
After watching Prophecy, I assumed their take was that Mentats were not yet that common. We're set in a time of 10BG-25AG with the first Mentat school developed between 68-5BG and a failure rate of 35% for the best candidates. This could explain the lack on Mentats in Prophecy, but I still would have expected the Emperor to have a Mentat. But there really needed to be a Guild presence in this story helping the audience to understand just how powerful and important the Guild are.
But the bene geserit are already trusted advisors to all the house leaders and emperor, face dancers are already a thing, the fremen exist too somehow, and "the spice must flow". I vehemently disliked how they pick and choose elements of dune instead of telling a holistic story
Problem is that that timelines dont work in this universe, you can throw it out of the window, they were not in show people show writers didnt write them in.. there is no other reason
One thing really loved from the Lynch version was the meeting between the emperor and the navigator. That single meeting told you everything you needed to know about the power and weight the guild wielded.
That was the first dune thing I saw and it traumatized me and for a good reason, it is important
It was one of the best scenes in the movie imo, even with the funky looking practical effects.
@@thesean3194 I always thought it was hilarious how the navigator handlers made a half-ass attempt to clean up the slime or whatever it was, when the navigator left the room.
I thought the second and rather more brief meeting between the Guild representative and the emperor in Lynch's Dune was more telling when they basically told him what he was going to do and directly threatened him with bodily harm if he didn't comply. ONLY the Guild could get away with that in the Dune universe.
Except that wasn't from the first book.
Yeah this whole thing about the truth Sayers having to put an empress on the throne because of some nebulous prophecy really fell flat for me. You have the rivalries between the Bene Geserit and the spacing guild, the rivalry between the emperor and the landsraad. So much potential for political and economic intrigue just being left on the table.
I feel like they avoided the politics side very heavily due to the fact that a lot of people HATED the prequel trilogy of Star Wars for that exact reason. For some reason however, Game of Thrones, which is heavy on the politics of the realm was an absolute success before the final season.
@NoManSkyler that's a good point about the prequels. There was something heavy handed and forced about the politics in those films.
Preach it! I’m honestly shocked how little they’ve had any screen time in the last few productions.
1) Mentats
2) Guild
3) Ginaz and other schools
Let’s show some actual Transhumanism. Biological style.
Also this is Hollywood. They do drugs. They don’t understand drugs.
What I truly appreciate about these videos is that, despite being overall critical of the show, you still display optimism for the future of it. That's kind of where I'm at, overall I liked it, but I think it can be much better than the season we've gotten so far.
Spaceing guild : " I AM I A JOKE TO YOU PEOPLE I AM LITERALLY SPACE AMAZON AND UBER !!!!!!! I AM IMPORTANT YOU MORTHER TRUCKERS!!!!!"
they also run the banks.
...and choam is space amazon. nobody thinks of choam.
They are saving it for Dune3.
When the Atreides kid said "the spice must flow" I physically cringed. Like wtf does that even mean, you're snorting this stuff in night clubs how important can this possibly be?
The Atriedes kid was also about to blow up a room full of people in a terrorist attack (which would have forever ruined the family name) if not for Desmond apparently catching a nuke delivering weapon with his bare hands before it could go off.
Ugh, this show is stupid as fuck.
To think I was excited when Villeneuve got to film Dune...
Yeah, as one of the legs of the ‘tripod’ of society in Dune, it irks me that the Guild is so often sidelined
I think it's because, in general, there isn't a ton to draw from for the Guild. They're a secretive group, and even though they're a major power in th dynamics of the Dune universe, Herbert intentionally never went into much detail about them. Even though Prophecy is a "new" story, the writers still had to use *something* as a creative reference; naturally, if not the Great Houses or Choam, then the only logical last organization from the early days of the empire is the Bene Gesserit (since other orgs like the Bene Tleilax and Honored Matres don't exist yet)
The problem I see is that Hollywood has created a series set 10000 years before Paul Atreides, but wants everything to be recognizsble by people who watched Villeneuve‘s films. So we have the same „look“, the same concerns, essentially the same society.
This is like imagining we today have the same concerns as the ancient Egyptians, whereas we don’t even live in the same society as 30 years ago
One of the big problems I have with this show is it being set 10,000 years before Franks books. That's a long time. Like way longer from ancient Egypt until now. But the technology kinda looks the same. Or if you like, has been 'imagined' the same. As opposite as they are to the Frank universe, the club scenes did give the series a slightly more primal look. I would have preferred something less technically sophisticated.
I remember one line referenced that “the rules of kanly were followed” and I guess we’re all just supposed to understand that and all that entails even though none of the adaptations (that I recall) go into what that’s all about.
I agree that this show is a mixed bag. In my opinion the biggest mistake is setting the show ten thousand years before the events of Paul's jihad. This show takes place less than a century after the Thinking Machines were overthrown. At this point all the Great Schools are in their infancy but the show depicts them fully formed. To bring up Imprinters and Face Dancers is way too soon. If the show took place a century before Paul it would make more sense. But i still enjoyed the show and look forward to Season 2.
You always articulate what I think, so well!! All the points I make in my mind, yet not as elegantly as you.
Thanks again for another great, thorough and passionate video, Mrs. Cookies 👌
What struck me about Dune prophecy was the very high degree it was just "people standing around in room talking". Almost never did a character go to a location where they were not expected or highly familiar with.
I was guessing that they could not include the Spacing Guild, and gave us the ultra basic ixian etc because stuff like that was off limits until Dennis brings them in to Messiah in more of a big reveal versus in a show that most people won't even watch. Like, I'm figuring they probably had a whole list of things they had to avoid or could not go into detail on. Navigator's design might not even be finalized yet, etc... Hopefully they will be able to dig deeper into the world building in Season 2. (Which I am still surprised is happening haha... Season 1 was such a clumsy mixed bag) And hopefully WAY less nightclub scenes. Thanks Elaine!
This shows fails completely in the basic aspects of using and promoting the Dune lore. It’s another generic space story with magical witches with a secret agenda (Acolyte vibes). The right moment already passed away. The opportunity was lost in time to show the best elements and basic ideas to the series audiences. The Guild and the mentats are an amazing element of balance but they don’t care about those, maybe they think it’s too masculine and they erase them for that reason.
lol have you even read any of the first seven frank herbert books the bene jesserit push men around for like thousands of years to create paul a balance of feminine and masculinity i don’t think anyone was afraid of “masculine” traits of the books or whatever culture war crap you’re talking about
The thing that really bothered me about the show was that it made everything look so small. The Sisterhood school looks like Hogwarts and the Landsraad looked a local council meeting, very disappointing.
I think they did that on purpose. The machine war had only been over a short time and humans were rebuilding
Which is what I loved about the David Lynch 1984 Dune movie- everything was so grand, dark and opulent
I don't even think the emperor needed a mentat because it wasn't established in the story that he did need one. But do you know what the show constantly showed that he absolutely did need? I'll take Security for 1,000, Alex. Where was the security in the royal palace? How is there nobody protecting the emperor or guarding the prison... or anything else? I hope the next guy learns a lesson and hires some guards.
While I agree with most of your takes on this show, a few stood out to me that I feel MIGHT be misinformed or from overlooking certain details of the original novels. Many things in Herbert’s saga were left open for interpretation. One thing that was supposed to be made very clear was that humans are flawed, even messiah figures.
1. I think it would be natural that some people would still have versions of thinking machines during this time. I mean, look at the Tleilaxu, to think that they didn’t still hold onto some remnant of thinking machine while developing their twisted mentats and other scandalous endeavors would be kind of weird to me. They seem to be deeply morally corrupted. Also, just like anything else involving humans, there will always be an opposing force on any and every subject. Think of the old saying “rules are meant to be broken.” To think that no one had thinking machines in the 10 thousand years before Paul’s awakening is kind of ridiculous. That being said, during this time it would make the most sense that there were still thinking machines floating around, especially if they existed in the thousands of years to come. They were outlawed and they were defeated in the war, Herbert never explicitly states that no thinking machines remained.
2. I’ve always viewed spice as a double entendre for both resources(primarily oil, Arrakis representing the Middle East) and psychedelics(mind expanding drugs) yes, psychedelics and other narcotics can have beneficial medical properties, but most people do use them as a party drug. I never once thought the stuff they were snorting was spice, I thought it was just some drug that lacks importance other than its symbol of “a good time.”
3. If I’m not mistaken, there was a general distrust for mentats during this time, and they were still adapting as well as growing from within. Much like the sisterhood right after the war they weren’t as wide spread. This show takes place during the time where humans hadn’t fully adapted to their “true potential.” Not seeing Mentats wasn’t much of concern for me especially since their order wasn’t even formed until after the war unlike the sisterhood which had a predecessor the “Sorceresses of Rossak.” I figured the Mentats weren’t a true order yet due to the time this story takes place.
“The exact origin of the Mentat's order is outlined in Frank Herbert's Chapterhouse: Dune novel and it is attributed to Gilbertus Albans. In the Legends of Dune novels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson Albans was trained by the thinking machine, Erasmus.” - Dune Wiki - I find it hard to believe that people who’s legacy was built on the destruction of thinking machines would so quickly have members of an order who’s teachings originated from them.
4. No matter how valuable spice is during this time, the possibility of thinking machines being used in a rebellion outweighs any riches to the people whose ancestors fought against them. Plus, there is an entire planet filled with it, so when they are dumping the narcotics I wasn’t that surprised. I have seen drug raids where the DEA does the same thing, it’s supposed to represent the carelessness of how SOME police might search through your stuff. The spice itself wasn’t the crime, it was the potential for insurgency. So yea, makes sense they would carelessly dump spice searching for a thinking machine. It’s not like they were there to confiscate it in the first place.
OTHER THAN THAT, I 100% agree and I love your channel. It has inspired me to reread the first 3 books several times. Your content is awesome!
I have a few gripes with this show but the above mentioned were not any of those.
I disliked the openness of Valya using her new found powers to kill those who stood in her way. The sisterhood ALWAYS operated in complete secrecy and until “the voice” was mastered people remained blissfully unaware of their true power.
Which leads me to HOW DID VALYA LEARN TO USE THE VOICE. Did she alone come up with it? Is it a telepathic power that the Sorceresses of Rossak were trying to hone in on? I felt the lack of explanation jarring…
I found it ridiculous how quickly they had infiltrated not only the great houses but the royal house especially.
I still don’t understand HOW TF Desmond survived the worm, UNLESS it was “divine intervention” by the God Emperor himself.
Despite these gripes, I still enjoyed it a lot, I thought it was an amazing show and representation of the early Landsraad.
I seem to be in a small camp of viewers who are enjoying this show 😅 That said, I fully agree here: Spice isn't being spoken about nearly enough, but I'm assuming that the upcoming season taking place (atleast in part) on Arakkis should bring the subject up more often.
Nailed it with this one Cookies. I mean you always do but this one like super nailed it😁
Spice is not a narcotic nor does the show present it as such. Spice is a psychedelic and represents Franks interest in psychedelic mushrooms.
This show has so much potential. I hate the books, but I can still see how this show has the potential to be as popular as GOT.
i agree with 98% of your takes here, the one thing i disagree with is i think the amount of thinking machines in this series makes a decent amount of sense when it comes to the fact that we are in year 150~ out of a 20k timeline, if anywhere in this timeline id think to see thinking machines it would be right around and after the time humanity defeated them, not 1000 years after. imperium at 150ish years into the new norm, it makes sense to me some people or planets might not be fully on bored, (ex house richeese) with the removal of thinking machines at this point. id rather focus on other things but this did make sense to me just because of the time this series takes place in. what do yall think?
I, too, can be patient with a second or third generation removed from the enslavement, not fully understanding the true dangers of thinking machines.
Humans, in general, are prideful. I'm sure many would believe they could control them.
I was trying to piece together the timeline of the series. The wiki says Dune Prophecy is set during the BG (Before Guild) timeline, the Battle of Corrin was 88BG, so the setting is roughly around the time the Folding Space Company renames to the Spacing Guild. Tula brings her vengeance on the Atriedes in 3BG. Javicco becomes Padisha Emperor in 9AG. Here the wiki (on Fandom) skips ahead a few centuries. Guessing ages of the characters it is probably 29-35AG. The Bene Gesserit computer is dismantled in 4BG. So appears there is some adjustment to the timeline going on in the TV series. Which I am ok with, as I find a lot of the Brian Herbert stuff problematic to the what was established via the Appendixes in the original series.
We're going to start watching It this weekend. I look forward to seeing how my impressions match up with your reviews.
Elaine!!! Great video!!! Huzzah! 🙌🏻 I didn’t watch the show and I’m a Frank Herbert books and the movies/SyFy fan. No Mentats? Dumping Spice? The dumping Spice would have broken my suspension of disbelief in the story🤷🏻♂️that’s literally unbelievable
Exceptional commentary again.
Maybe you should read Brian Herbert's books because they are pretty close to how he treats spice and drugs in his works.
You are so right N.C.!
They should have a guild navigator that got expelled or went awaal and is like on stakes to help him score spice to see if he can survive the detox. He could be whoring out prescients for spice or money to buy spice. A super smart drug addict detoxing is a fun character and it only requires good acting. And I think they should do a Sven inside a harvester where we stay with the characters after they get gulped down like they survive for one or two minutes thinking they can many get out before it ingests them. Or have like o e girl actually escape and survive. That would be so rad and it would add so much info about different parts of the lore. Thanks for posting a video that really got me thinking about the possibilities! Your awesome NC 🌊🏄♀️🏄♂️
I thought it strange that once the emperor dismissed the head of the order of the sisters , that the rest of the houses didn't turn on their truthsayers. People of the courts watch the royals in many cultures very closely and follow fashion trends and other things, but especially when the head mother is basically kicked out you'd think that would cause waves of distrust throughout the houses.
They also want people not familiar with book, to be familiar with face dancers , ixians and all the other greatness Dune has too offer before Dune Messiah the movie
i still think they are holding the navigators in reserve for a messiah reveal. but it would be nice to get some interactions with the bankers and bureaucrats that are the public facing parts of the guild. definitely need more mentats. would be interesting if next season was more focused around any of those groups with the sisters being relegated to the b plot.
I feel like the the guild is being sidelined due to Villanueva and the writers/designers not quite being dead set on how they want God Emperor Leto to be visually represented, and in tandem, the navigators and their Spice induced transformations. Probably want them to be somewhat similar in look and style for continuity
As for the spacing guild , I wonder if the creators were holding off and waiting for what Danny Villeneuve envisions on how the guild would be portrayed? Plus I wonder if their focus kept shifting on trying to tell a character story at the expense of world building but also wanting to give fan service? 6 episodes probably shackled them when 10 would have given them room to develop the story further.
I agreed with all your points. As I fill like the shows does need to expand on more of the Duniverse lores. It is a pretty interesting show but it needs to show and explain more of the world of the time 10,000 years prior to Dune’s established technologies and culture. Come on Dune: Prophecy Creators & Writers. You can do better than that. S1 has hooked us in. Now S2 should get us in deeper and broader into the Duniverse. Give us Fans what we want. Make it the best TV show ever for 2025.
This what happens when an author is highly intelligent and the writers in hollyweird are of average intelligence at BEST.
I don't think you will see a navigator until there is a problem with spice production.
I expected more world building and establishing of the different factions that make the empire a delicate balance of power that could crumble if too much power is applied. Then season 2 could spend more time on intrapersonal relationships. It didn’t use the time wisely with season one.
not introducing the Spacing Guild and the Mentats is a GIANT missed opportunity. not only would we see the way humans adapt without thinking machines but also they had a window to flush out the tension between the Mentats and the Benegeserit. from what I read in Frank Herbert's Dune, the two did not trust each other and I would've loved to see that tension explored in this show
It's just All modern storytelling.
We want this but the majority of the movie/series watching public don't want the way things were told they want something to put their ideologies into.
The whole: Don't tell us a story, tell me how it means to me. My desires, my ideas, my wants.
Spice is a party drug. How was it possible for the spacing guild go without thinking machines so soon after the Butlerian Jihad?
Yeah, the spice dumping scene made me spit out my drink.
Do the show runners have any clue how ASTRONOMICALLY (pun intended) VALUABLE THAT SHIT IS?!?!
Wars have been fought for smaller quantities.
@@Christian-gy6fkyeah it was like dumping countless lives lost (to produce it) and entire planet's worth of wealth... The show jumped the shark this episode and whoever these writers were should never be used again. Blatant disrespect for the source material (obviously never even read it) and shockingly bad levels of writing and logic (Desmond is in a multi-storied building that collapsed in a 30-bomb explosion. If his character can lift himself out of that sheer amount of rubble (metric tons of concrete blocks, metric tons metal structures)... There is no reason to even attempt to kill this dude. He might as well just State to the audience, "I am literally an overpowered Marvel superhero and quite literally nothing in this universe can in anyway affect my actions because I can survive anything without taking any lasting damage (think Superman, Deadpool, Wolverine etc).
Maybe they are holding off on the guild so that DV can show it in Messiah. That is to say, if they ever intend to. So far, there has barely been any mention of them at all, let alone any reference to their importance. I'm a little puzzled by what appears to be this purposeful neglect.
I couldn't agree more. The great revolt was universal in scale. Second maybe to Paul's jihad. Maybe even more important because it changes the course of humanity forever. So yes it doesn't work. The reaction to anyone having or using thinking machines should have been major.
What's the background music you used in this video? I always love your choice of music for your videos. They sound very "Dune-esque."
They still have a chance is just season 1 probably will have more two seasons, and another spin offs will be release as well. So expecting everything just fast don't make sense
The Frank Herbert “Dune” universe is beloved in no small part because of the richness of Frank’s writing style and clarity of vision. That’s why many people, myself included, don’t understand and don’t particularly enjoy poorly-executed lore modification when what most of us want is a visual interpretation of the books, at least the “Canonical Six”. I don’t want vast modifications to the Butlerian Jihad, thinking machines, the political balances of the various factions and ignoring factions such as the Spacing Guild. I don’t care about various director’s “artistic vision” - I want to see Frank’s brought to life, similar to “Dune Part One” and the Peter Jackson “Lord of The Rings” trilogy - why is that so much to ask?
Dune had a 60s mystical uoutlook on drugs and the movies seemed to take a more 80s law enforcement casual outlook on drugs.
I'd put good money on the guild being a big part of the next movie and the series wasn't allowed to include them.
I agree they fumbled the spacing guild and humans plight to learn how to navigate without sentient computers. However, Spice wasn't worth a ton in the begining because there was so muuch of it. By the fourth book a single suitcase of spice was worth kingdoms.
Netflix, *May thy blade chip and shatter.*
They really keep messing up with simple delivery, like citing when the order of mentat was formed. Something as small as that gives at least an impression that they have a coveted space in the imperium and give some fan service. All the fan service was stagnant, like they rolled something out just to be like "this is a thing." It really feels like they just cliff notes'ed it together.
Thanks for saving me the time wasted on this abomination! I'll keep watching your videos instead
I agree with so much you say in regards to this series that I'll likely never watch. The problem is that we give a rat's ass about what happens in the Dune canon. We appreciate the original work for what it is, and accept its and Herbert's flaws. The production people, the studios, the money... They do not. At 8:35 You say "inspire them to read the books". That's not the point of this series. The point is to reap whatever profit can be made from the IP. The series isn't even really an expansion in Villeneuve's movies, as much as it just borrows the movie's aesthetics to attach itself to the movie for the sake of marketing. The people making the series don't care if anyone picks up the books; they don't make money from the books. If anything, they want people to avoid the books, so they can diverge from the source as much as needed with as little backlash as possible.
lols spice, the party drug. only way to describe it.
Thanks Elaine
I guess depicting something as complicated as a Guild Navigator, would strain the production budget. I wonder how many of the Dune books the producer read before taking on this project?
this is why the face dancer got seconds of screen time. the fact that i dont remember the character's name probibly isnt a good sign.
Co-signed and agreed.
It's too bad they didn't have the vision and patience of the writers of The Wire. Each season focusing on a specific element of the Dune-iverse. Instead, they opted for the GoT model.
This story is more about the Sisterhood than spice. I’m OK with not seeing too much about it.
Also, just because a revelation throws something off, doesn’t mean that all the people are done with it. Think about what happened after the US civil war, the French Revolution and the breakup of the Soviet Union. Ex-slaves became sharecroppers, the French eventually end up with an Emperor and Russia democracy looks much like the old Soviet system with influence over most satellite states. It took the US system around a hundred years to progress. It took almost the same amount of time before France truly got rid of a monarch. We still have yet to see what is going on with Russia.
I do find it credible that thinking machines are still around.
The empress might be an expression of how some call themselves religious but are more interested in power and/or wealth than living their religion.
The Dune Universe is simply to complicated to try to get it all in one series. And once again I think they should have started to explain it all with Vorian Atreides as central character as a guide through all the aspects of that universe. He was already there with the Titans, with the machines and the machine wars and far beyond till even Dune: Prophecy
If memory serves the machines didn't have lasguns,
Huge book fan (at least Frank’s books) - and I think shoes and movies ignore the guild because they don’t do anything. Sure they are this powerful political component - but until Edric they don’t have any real players of influencing the plot. It’s like doing a world war 2 movie and focusing on the motor pool and rear echelon logistics staff instead of spies and generals and battles.
Arrakis is NOT widely known, coz the Spice is not widely known for more benefits
8:08 definitely
Like Rings of Power, Dune Prophecy's writers are either not smart enough or lack the creative imagination (or both) to weave the actual Dune mythos into a compelling narrative.
Its hard to write scifi and fantasy if you havent read books on them and passionate about them, its EXTRA HARD to write Tolkien or Herbert world stories.
You see most of the writers on these, I dont know how they were picked but they arent interested on our "nerd shit", they probably wanted to be tv writer for soap or drama,
maybe write YA or drama stories. You can see it in these shows. They werent the ones going through libraries looking for great scifi books or re-read their favorite books.
They didnt talk about them with their friends played pen&paper RPs, video games etc. basically they were just normies who wanted to be in the "biz" and hook onto anything
which was just popular.
When did film productions become so wimpy?! No Guts! No Glory! Literally.
I loved this series, looking forward to the second season 👍
Some people are to easily pleased is all I can say. The show failed on all levels, especially given the amount of material to draw from and the success of the two Dune films. I asked my friends and work colleagues about the show? Many were unaware had never heard about it, those that had seen it hated it never got past episode 2. One person at work had watched all 6 episodes 'he’s a glutton for punishment’ he actually sat and watched all seasons of the dreadful Star Trek Discovery😵💫? Most people were confused and bored in equal measures, 'where’s Paul? If those two women are called Harkonnen why aren’t they bald? Where’s the Baron will he be in this?…Etc! Lacklustre characters poorly realised environments, poor writing and dialogue and plot points and history that made no sense? Add to that the annoying cast of plumby voiced actresses straight from central casting. Actors who would more fittingly belong in 'Eastenders’ ( an awful long running Cockney soap opera set in the east end of London on the BBC.) who on earth cast a scouser ( person from Liverpool) as the Atreides weapons trainer? The very moment he opened his mouth it immediately destroys any sense of place or wonder, drags you out of that futuristic environment. He looks like he accidentally wandered onto the wrong studio lot and was simply ushered in to wardrobe and handed some lines to say. He was actually hired by his agent to play a dodgy scouser car thief on a gritty kitchen sink drama he’s a 'scally from a council estate in Toxteth Liverpool ready to Knick some cars and sell you some wacky baccy.
All the people I asked had actually gone to the cinema to watch the Dune films on IMAX and loved them especially the second one. This they didn’t like.👎
The emphasis on the Bene Gesserit in this series is nothing more than displaying the strong female role. Which has been fashionable in this brave new world or ours 🙄 Dune is about the political high-wire balance between the Imperium, the Guild, and the Landsraad, full stop. You’re absolutely right about that. One note on the Mentats. From what I understand about the timeline in this series is that the Butlerian Jihad was only about 200 or less years before. Has the institution of the Mentats already been established prior to the Jihad? Two-hundred years is hardly enough time to turn humans into bio-computers. So, I can see why Mentats were not inserted into this series. One thing I love about his series is they stayed faithful to the look of Denis Villeneuve’s Dune adaptation.
With all the corporate shenanigans going on at HBO/Max I doubt anything decent coming out of them. 6 to 8 episodes for thier recent series seasons is disappointed.
Pitre De Vries was addicted to Sapho Juice.
Sapho juice has a clear purpose for Mentats. He's actually addicted to spice.
I feel like no matter what was produced people would trash it. Give it a chance, at least it is a start and not a terrible start. Try to lift it up and draw viewers in. Give some support and positivity so that the show can continue, improve and grow. We can't expect unrealistic perfection out of the box.
I was so excited with the high production values in episode one and the acting but the first season let me down and I walked away. Such a wasted opportunity … half assed effort by the writers and showrunners …
If you read the prequels and the inbetweenquels you would know that they would be repulsed toward anything that simulates how the human 🧠 worked, and even more so with full on artificial intelligences. There also would be those who would be mortified.
The casual, recreational drug usage was so asinine. So out of character for members of a great house.
Arakis wasn’t even a very key location in that period of time. Also the butlerian jihad happened what ? 150 years ago, but there’s almost no progression in the setting of the imperial system. That’s like saying that 10000 years from now nothing will fundamentally change how things work in our society today and that makes no sense at all.
Dune is supposed to be a mystery planet where people obviously have some use for it but it’s still not a particularly interesting place to be
Mentats and Navigators are primarily if not exclusively male roles and this show is anything that about male power. Given that premise the idea is to hook an audience then introduce female mentats and possibly navigators if not the first of each kind and blowing off anyone who disagrees
its never stated that mentats are exclusively male, same goes for the swordmastes (there were females from both). idk why the guild prefers males, the first navigator was female. its possible that females have higher failure rates than males, and the process is very expensive (uses a lot of spice), so they are hedging their bets. it could also be that they often get possessed much like the bg abomination. the guild draws from its own lower ranks for navigator candidates and doesn't include females to further increase the chances of successfully creating a navigator.
In God emporer, 1350 year after this computer that just served as an information processor, with email, is used with dread,
The complete dearth of competence and intellectual prowess rampant in the current crop of writers in Hollywood, coupled with the bizarre ideology of "wokeness," dooms any production no matter how rich the source material.
I told you months ago this show would be trash. This whole new era of dune adaptations has been a giant let down
People like drugs, that will never change. Also they live/work on the capitol and most of them are very wealthy. Spice is easy to get on the capitol, that is not shocking.
Hopefully they saw what worked and what didn't and come back stronger on season 2. I know people hate it but Rings of power season 2 was much better then season 1.
Way to soon for the mentats to be a thing yet there still training them
The show is very foggy on where exactly these schools are in their development but they do mention mentats several times in the series.
they were training mentats in the schools series.
Sadly another rushed season that makes 0 sense and way too much filler content
The entire show was a missed opportunity
I appreciate your analysis of Prophecy, but there's only so much lore building that can be done in a 6 episode run. The mistake or decision to limit the production is the problem......not the writing or production.
I'm not watching anymore 6-8 episode seasons of anything anymore. 10 or plus epis!
I get why thinking machines are treated like they're not this dangerous thing everyone respects.
I think its important to note that everyone we see is like, the highest powers in the galaxy. The rebels are all like high members of the great houses.
The sentiment I got is that its the rich people saying "yeah I mean we beat the machines and we control them now, obviously little things like toys arent a big deal"
Even when the toy is released, it scares and unnerves everyone, and they wait until the Emperor signals that the situation is "under control" and can be overlooked.
I think this just shows how people just are, without the kind of all-encompassing fanaticism that Dune later becomes known for.
I assumed Desmond and his crusade against machines and total hard line willing to kill and torture anyone who has anything to do with machines would be what ends up cementing the idea and the seriousness with which its taken later on. They just kill and spread fear and manipulate culture until people either get it, or are dead.
If anything, this is the one thing that made sense to me. People are stupid, every corruption spreads with incremental changes. If the toy is fine, maybe a little more is fine, if that little more is fine, maybe dangerous tools can be controlled by responsible people, and whos to say how responsible you really need to be, maybe you can control it oops we got enslaved again.
I feel like we're seeing the times before people *really* start taking the OC bible really seriously. They're in "I mean it's just a toy, a toy can't hurt you" mode, and everyone else just kinda follows the laws the great houses are supposed to be enforcing themselves publicly, but which they ignore and skirt internally.
My thought about Desmond causally giving the Harkon a "bump" is about the same as a millionaire having a coke plate to share out for guests.
The club scene might a low rent place for the imperial children but it's low rent where they can walk without fear or guards.
You nailed it we are watching the 1% of the 1% in the galaxy.
Personally I really liked the show and look forward to the next season.
@christopherkowalczyk4405 yeah I'm liking it so far
There are weird things, like it feels odd to me how established they feel when it's only 100 or so years after the jihad.
I went and looked at the canon timeline and it might actually make sense why the guild isn't mentioned so much, if we really are 100ish years after the jihad, apparently the guild like.../just/ formed, or hasn't even yet for another 80ish years.
The years are literally labelled B.G. and A.G. (before and after guild) and Dune apparently takes place 10,000 or so A.G. and the jihad was 200 B.G., I don't remember exactly when the show takes place but I swear they said like 120 years after the butlerian jihad. There are people shown alive who participated in it.
It's like, some things make sense, and some things don't. It's weird to hear them talk about Shai Hulud and Fremen and all that so casually, it feels like not much would change in 10,000+ years. Maybe that's what galactic stability actually looks like? If it's 120 years after the jihad, the guild wouldn't even exist yet. Maybe they just figured out space travel. Apparently that happened 80 B.G., so like...it would have had to be like the very first time they'd travelled so easily.
I dunno, just feels weird but it seems like a very good series to me.
@@christopherkowalczyk4405 plus yeah, the spice thing threw me off at first, but I'm just realizing this would be just after Harkonnens were exiled or whatever. The guy was talking about selling whale fur, maybe he really is just amazed to have access to culture where spice is available so readily. But it's weird that I had the same thought like "something's off about this scene".
Maybe it was too rushed, they showed alot of stuff and established alot of characters and concepts and it's hard to just make sense of the world.
its sort of like prohibition, everyone still wants booze even though its illegal. ix and richese are al capone right now. the emperor was clearly weak on the machine issue. now that he is dead i think its time to send in the butlerian inquisition.
This show was bad, top to bottom, and all the way through!! It's a 4 out of 10 in my opinion, a week 4 at that. This was so disappointing, I expect much more from HBO. PENGUIN 🐧 Was a huge surprise being so good and engaging in every episode. But this is No Bueno!!
It was…meh. Lots of potential. But also a lot of wasted time. At the moment, I don’t have a lot of hope for season 2.
It needs to be less Game of Thrones and more i dunno Shakespeare. There is hope for this show to be good. It's a small chance but it exists,
I very much saw the potential of DUNE Prophecy but it bordered on being completely unwatchable. It really only worked because of the goodwill lent from the Dune films and books. Otherwise DUNE Prophecy was\is unworthy of it's namesake. Potential, poorly; no, VERY poorly executed. I'm admittedly a little mad about it because I love Dune and WANTED this show to be a banger.
when show runners assume that the viewer knows why the spice is most import sustenance in the galaxy... . they never explain it. (in the films too)
If they go on a lot about the machines of the past, why didn't they JUST MAKE a machine war series instead of this tv drivel
scrap this series and do machine war.
"stand on your own" someone should've told Disney about that with star wars . they've got nothing to show but just leaning on past greats .
the state of all things sci-fi and fantasy films is in a sorry state in these days
( thank for mentioning the bit in the film which i missed where they actually explain the worth of spice ... a 5 second piece in a film)
ARGH!!! sorry for rant