Enjoyed this. My guess is dragons were in the forodwaith and withered heath since the 1st age. If Thorondor lived on top of Angband, and no one knew of winged dragons / Ancalagon, the dragons were bred somewhere. Maybe the Forodwaith people were eaten.
@@concept5631 Sorry, I was off of my meds when I made that comment. But yes, Forodwaith are indeed inspired by the Finns, not Ukrainians. Their place in Arda's moral geography is peculiar. I found it distasteful that Rings of Power used it to look like they know everything about Tolkien's work. Because it's quantity over quality for the Orcs at Amazon
Eskimos, anyone? Also I like the connection to Morgoth...not just running from him or pushed out of greener pastures by other baddies, but actually corralled there by Morgoth, just like he did to his human allies after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears: trapping them in the ruins of Hithlum instead of the promised lush lands of Beleriand.
I believe the Forodwaith were the same people as the Beleriand Easterlings, either akin to the people of Ulfang and Bor that did not enter Beleriand, or the descendants of Bor's people, who did not get granted the land of Dor Lomin like Ulfang's host, and escaped back east after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. We know that the Beleriand Easterlings were very keen on settling new lands, implying that wherever they came from was not a very pleasant place, and the first place these Easterlings entered Beleriand from was the land of Lothlann, which was directly to the west of where the ice Bay of Forochel would be after Beleriand sank.
I think that the Forodwaith would be more akin to the People of Bór based on the fact that the Edain didn't really trust the Easterlings and the People of Ulfang were traitors to the Union of Maedhros. Plus, I don't think that Ulfang’s people would willing aid Arvedui or any descendants of the Edain during Arnor's war against Angmar. Overall, this is a good theory.
I can agree with them being the people of bôr.They were easterlings, so I could see them not being loyal to the darkness nor light, and they went to a land where none would find them
Note I forgot to add that they probably helped Arvdui due to them fighting with the elevs and his ancestors in the first age, so they did it to fully end the evil of Morgoth and Sauron
I think I'm gonna like this series a lot, I love mysteries. I wonder how much inspiration Tolkien drew from real life, this story is very similar to the lost Roanoke colony/people. I take it you're also gonna cover the unamed creatures deep down in the mountains where Gandalf was fighting the Balrog. I think that might be the only time I've seen Gandalf be genuinely unnerved.
I love this series idea. Definitely keep making more. I think the dragons are the most likely to have wiped out most of the Forodwaith, given it's the only enemies we know for a fact lived in the area.
finally someone doing these series, my dream has come true, thanks Darth! x) bring up the uknown lore man thats the best :) about the Forodwaith people, its one of many interestings mysteries of ME, they are definitly from one of the first houses of man and some of these might settled in the North cold region where there was no active conflits... dont forget there might be some of them more in the East, upper north of the Iron Hills and near the Red Mountains... not only in the West they are probably the same thing as the Druedain in the south, or the same of the Enedwaith folk, a nomadic clan of Men (probably from Haleth), with their own speech and same costume of beeing isolated to others, seems legit! I think their downfall over the years were both your theories, cold winters, lack of resources by beeing isolated and some Orc/Dragons raid to their people, I suspect Angmar has caught some of them early on for slavering, so they went further West to the bay, thats why we see them there in the 3rd Age. there has to be more proof in the Edain section or in the end of the First Age, they had to come from somewhere, some say their are relatives of the first Earsterlings that were loyal to Men and Elves but I still doubt it
Brilliant. I always imagined that the Lossoth were a much greater people. Indeed because of the word remnant. Could you ever do a video on the Blue mountains and their inhabitants and maybe Lindon in general I guess?
I don't think they bore much resemblance to the Danes and other vikings by the end of their iterations. The men of Angmar fit that description much more readily with their invasion of the three kingdoms of former Arnor. More likely they are as most of the current ancillary media portrays them, as the equivalent of Lapps/Sami/Finns who were also often at odds with the Norse in our world which explains their hatred of the Witch King in Tolkien's. Likely they were wiped out by the men of Angmar who were (possibly) of Black Numenorean descent, as ex-king's men who colonized the area pre-sinking before being joined by the Witch King. I doubt the dragons had much to do with them disappearing. They had nothing of value. No riches. They're the equivalent of the kind but grumpy peasant woman who took in Alfred the Great after loosing Wessex.
If they had any cattle they'd eat those. dwarves=No cattle, but ++treasure, surely a better choice (if they have a ring you can eat it!). Finns had cattle. Lossoth maybe had Great cattle of Oromë from the East who withstood cold and made a Great meal, for dragons as well as humans. but then again why would they have brought them if other Edain did Not?
Looking at the comparison of the two maps, I feel like the Lossoth could have been the easternmost dwelling Forodwaith, who became the "remnant" because their lands were not sunk unlike that of their western kin. But it wouldn't explain why would the Forodwaith only have inhabitated the westernmost part of the northern lands (if Lossoth are the remnant, that means there are no Forodwaith to the east). So perhaps the Forodwaith in the western lands were sunk, the Forodwaith in the east were driven away by fleeing dragons and the Lossoth were just those of the Forodwaith who were luckly enough to live in the place that just managed to escape both of these gruesome fates.
Hello and welcome to Darth Detective does decoding daily and for our next episode, Who was Debbie the Dunlanding and why did she dance in the Dimrill Dale. Haha, great video dude excited for the series!
Given how abruptly cold it gets not that far north of the Shire (it would be like if London was the climate it is, and Edinburgh was ice-covered), the cold conjured up by Morgoth that existed north of the Iron Mountains must have still existed in the Third Age, so it is likely that Forodwaith was the prior location of the Iron Mountains and beyond.
Unfortunately I don't remember the source right now, but isn't it mentioned somewhere in History of Middle Earth that the Lossoth are descendants of the people of Bor? These were Easterlings in the 1st Age who, unlike Ulfang and his people, remained faithful to the Eldar. But after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (where they lost their leaders) they went back over the Ered Luin. It would also explain their generally friendly, but also sceptical and pragmatic attitude towards the Dunedain.
So the Folk of Bor (those that didn't cross the mountains - that group was wiped out) are mentioned in The Peoples of Middle-earth, but they're referred to as farmers and tillers of the land who dwelt in northern Eriador. They were presumably absorbed into the Men of Eriador during the Second Age. The Forodwaith and Lossoth are an entirely different group.
Sinking of Beleriand at the end of First Age when much of the land sank below the sea, dragons forced them near the coasts, the change of the world when we are told the sea rolled in and the coastline was changed and then the Witch-King captures many and killed many when he established Angmar, or maybe the Lossoth are some that escaped and some good Hill Men of Rhudaur that escaped and merged with them, thus creating the Lossoth.
If Forodwaith were raiders, they most likely served Morgoth. Perhaps they were the ones that controlled access to the lands east of Beleriand. Then came the hungry dragons, trolls and orcs. That would be a great reason to convert, wouldn't it? Those who remained faithful just became travelling rations for them.
To be fair, if a man from Oxford learned about a place like Nunavut with -50 degree winters, he'd probably name it something like "The Grinding Ice" too.
Ah that was fun 😀 Could you consider to do a video on the stone of Erech? I think it may be the named artefact in the legendarium that we know least about. I like to believe that such stones were an element in the Numénorean religion. And I like the idea that it spiritually competes with a dark temple, built by the Men of the Mountains (Baldor seems to have been directed to such a temple)
The loss of their lands into the sea, seems like the likely explanation. It's simple. The remnants are survivors of that catastrophe. If the land was taken slowly many of them could have gone south and mixed with other tribes.
All of these are good answers, but I have another. Eru and the reshaping of Arda. When Eru changed the shape of Arda we are told new lands rose and some sank. Even the mouth of the Anduin changed and Pelargir was moved from the mouth of the river to far inland. We can see this in some maps of the Second Age.
I definitely get vibes of the ancient Thule people of Greenland from the Forodwaith. Perhaps there was some inspiration from the native peoples of Greenland and northern Canada? Either way, great series and decent advice.
Morgoth told his human follows to settle in lands near his main fortress in the North, to provide labor & tribute. Those there now are probably thier descendants.
Forodwaith... literally NOTHING! I still think there could have been something... men, orcs, dragons, dwarves, elves... maybe even some hobbit relatives.But it still probably is very empty... like northernmost siberia, northern finnland and the like.tolkien liked the kalevala so i like to think of Foroswaith as pohjola.All of that is speculative, headcanon and fanfic of course...
I don't believe all these guys are evil perhaps some of them were and followed Morgoth and went to persecute and make war with the others who did not obey Morgoth. A lot of Dragons live in the North. It's possible that after the defeat of Morgoth with a large section of the continent gone and many mountains inland flattened any kingdoms or tribes and clans that survived would have to then deal with the dragons and other creatures of Morgoth that moved north and if some of their people followed Morgoth then civil war could of continued as well severly dwindling their already devastated resources. The conflict probably would last for a long time and occure more and more at certain points which would be devastating and these people would struggle to make a living and survive for a long time let alone rebuild everything from scratch.
Is it a sad name, definition can be different than an answer of a teaching, is why different many belief exist. What does it mean? Could it be our assumption? Assumption and common sense can be created by "teachings"(a-belief educations) - wrong is either doctrine or unknown?
"...or just need a refresher..." What native English speaker wouldn't know what "remnant" means? That's, like, elementary-level English...so I guess I answered my own question: children. lol XD
its rather annoying when the writing appears on the screen and then the narrator reads something that totally isn't on the screen at all you know its a good thing I am familiar with most of the source material but that doesn't mean it doesn't bug me when i go to read along you know then the narrator ends up reading something else that make it rather difficult to follow along unless you know the source material because i have read these books many times other than that whoever is narrating this isn't doing that bad
Tolkien usually likes to make history become a tale. I’m going with the theory that the Forodwaith were like the Vikings. The ended up in the north in search of far away lands. They were a hardy folk. We knew they feared the witch king so I’m also down with that theory. That is that the witch king destroyed most of their people. The Lossoth now live near a water source. That means food. Just saying
Enjoyed this. My guess is dragons were in the forodwaith and withered heath since the 1st age. If Thorondor lived on top of Angband, and no one knew of winged dragons / Ancalagon, the dragons were bred somewhere. Maybe the Forodwaith people were eaten.
@@andrewfernandez9674 What?
@@concept5631 Sorry, I was off of my meds when I made that comment.
But yes, Forodwaith are indeed inspired by the Finns, not Ukrainians. Their place in Arda's moral geography is peculiar.
I found it distasteful that Rings of Power used it to look like they know everything about Tolkien's work. Because it's quantity over quality for the Orcs at Amazon
Eskimos, anyone? Also I like the connection to Morgoth...not just running from him or pushed out of greener pastures by other baddies, but actually corralled there by Morgoth, just like he did to his human allies after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears: trapping them in the ruins of Hithlum instead of the promised lush lands of Beleriand.
I feel they're more a mix of cultures Eskimos and some more northern europeans like the Norse and siberian cultures.
@@gamercore5216I felt Sami vibes.
thats how i always imagined them.
I believe the Forodwaith were the same people as the Beleriand Easterlings, either akin to the people of Ulfang and Bor that did not enter Beleriand, or the descendants of Bor's people, who did not get granted the land of Dor Lomin like Ulfang's host, and escaped back east after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. We know that the Beleriand Easterlings were very keen on settling new lands, implying that wherever they came from was not a very pleasant place, and the first place these Easterlings entered Beleriand from was the land of Lothlann, which was directly to the west of where the ice Bay of Forochel would be after Beleriand sank.
I think that the Forodwaith would be more akin to the People of Bór based on the fact that the Edain didn't really trust the Easterlings and the People of Ulfang were traitors to the Union of Maedhros. Plus, I don't think that Ulfang’s people would willing aid Arvedui or any descendants of the Edain during Arnor's war against Angmar. Overall, this is a good theory.
I can agree with them being the people of bôr.They were easterlings, so I could see them not being loyal to the darkness nor light, and they went to a land where none would find them
Note I forgot to add that they probably helped Arvdui due to them fighting with the elevs and his ancestors in the first age, so they did it to fully end the evil of Morgoth and Sauron
What a great format for a tolkienesque new story😮
Man I love The Forochel music. Only ever seen two other players in Forochel in Lotro. It is a lonely place.
2:57 "...and why just why did they choose to live in such a cold inhospitable place?"
Forodwaith: it's free real estate.
Lapland, northern Finland. Reindeer herders.
Historically, the Sami people roam across Norway, Sweden, and Russia as well as Finland. 😊❤😊
If you get somehwere cold, move to a warmer place.. just dont overdo it.. like Haradrim
Subtropical climate is actually pretty good for humans
@@easytiger6570 Some Haradrims lived on desert. And I cant stand even 30 degrees let alone 35+ :D
Awesome video bro. Would be interested to learn more about the spirit of Caradharas. Always thought there was more to that
Keep up the Middle Earth Mystery Series!
Interestingly the Lossoth speak finnish in Lord of the Rings Online.
Boy, I love this kind of videos.
I think I'm gonna like this series a lot, I love mysteries. I wonder how much inspiration Tolkien drew from real life, this story is very similar to the lost Roanoke colony/people.
I take it you're also gonna cover the unamed creatures deep down in the mountains where Gandalf was fighting the Balrog. I think that might be the only time I've seen Gandalf be genuinely unnerved.
You will indeed. Welcome to Middle-earth. ;)
I love this series idea. Definitely keep making more. I think the dragons are the most likely to have wiped out most of the Forodwaith, given it's the only enemies we know for a fact lived in the area.
finally someone doing these series, my dream has come true, thanks Darth! x) bring up the uknown lore man thats the best :)
about the Forodwaith people, its one of many interestings mysteries of ME, they are definitly from one of the first houses of man and some of these might settled in the North cold region where there was no active conflits... dont forget there might be some of them more in the East, upper north of the Iron Hills and near the Red Mountains... not only in the West
they are probably the same thing as the Druedain in the south, or the same of the Enedwaith folk, a nomadic clan of Men (probably from Haleth), with their own speech and same costume of beeing isolated to others, seems legit!
I think their downfall over the years were both your theories, cold winters, lack of resources by beeing isolated and some Orc/Dragons raid to their people, I suspect Angmar has caught some of them early on for slavering, so they went further West to the bay, thats why we see them there in the 3rd Age.
there has to be more proof in the Edain section or in the end of the First Age, they had to come from somewhere, some say their are relatives of the first Earsterlings that were loyal to Men and Elves but I still doubt it
Id say they are eskimo like people.
Brilliant. I always imagined that the Lossoth were a much greater people. Indeed because of the word remnant. Could you ever do a video on the Blue mountains and their inhabitants and maybe Lindon in general I guess?
I don't think they bore much resemblance to the Danes and other vikings by the end of their iterations. The men of Angmar fit that description much more readily with their invasion of the three kingdoms of former Arnor. More likely they are as most of the current ancillary media portrays them, as the equivalent of Lapps/Sami/Finns who were also often at odds with the Norse in our world which explains their hatred of the Witch King in Tolkien's. Likely they were wiped out by the men of Angmar who were (possibly) of Black Numenorean descent, as ex-king's men who colonized the area pre-sinking before being joined by the Witch King.
I doubt the dragons had much to do with them disappearing. They had nothing of value. No riches. They're the equivalent of the kind but grumpy peasant woman who took in Alfred the Great after loosing Wessex.
If they had any cattle they'd eat those. dwarves=No cattle, but ++treasure, surely a better choice (if they have a ring you can eat it!). Finns had cattle. Lossoth maybe had Great cattle of Oromë from the East who withstood cold and made a Great meal, for dragons as well as humans. but then again why would they have brought them if other Edain did Not?
I read that as “the frodowraith”
it was interesting and I enjoyed it looking forward to the next one
Great video a very interesting video
Looking at the comparison of the two maps, I feel like the Lossoth could have been the easternmost dwelling Forodwaith, who became the "remnant" because their lands were not sunk unlike that of their western kin. But it wouldn't explain why would the Forodwaith only have inhabitated the westernmost part of the northern lands (if Lossoth are the remnant, that means there are no Forodwaith to the east).
So perhaps the Forodwaith in the western lands were sunk, the Forodwaith in the east were driven away by fleeing dragons and the Lossoth were just those of the Forodwaith who were luckly enough to live in the place that just managed to escape both of these gruesome fates.
The First Age is so awesome, fantasy running berserk. Belitiand being the setting of this age makes it ever more interesting
Very interesting
Hello and welcome to Darth Detective does decoding daily and for our next episode, Who was Debbie the Dunlanding and why did she dance in the Dimrill Dale. Haha, great video dude excited for the series!
Given how abruptly cold it gets not that far north of the Shire (it would be like if London was the climate it is, and Edinburgh was ice-covered), the cold conjured up by Morgoth that existed north of the Iron Mountains must have still existed in the Third Age, so it is likely that Forodwaith was the prior location of the Iron Mountains and beyond.
I always imagined the Lossoth to be like Inuit. Tolkien may have been thinking of the Sami of northern Scandinavia. It is a mystery :-)
I'd say the Lossoth are more like the Inuit, not like the Vikings, since the Rohirrim are already pretty much the pendant to the latter
Yes, or like the Sámi and Finns, since they were the historical northern neighbours of Vikings.
Unfortunately I don't remember the source right now, but isn't it mentioned somewhere in History of Middle Earth that the Lossoth are descendants of the people of Bor? These were Easterlings in the 1st Age who, unlike Ulfang and his people, remained faithful to the Eldar. But after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (where they lost their leaders) they went back over the Ered Luin. It would also explain their generally friendly, but also sceptical and pragmatic attitude towards the Dunedain.
So the Folk of Bor (those that didn't cross the mountains - that group was wiped out) are mentioned in The Peoples of Middle-earth, but they're referred to as farmers and tillers of the land who dwelt in northern Eriador. They were presumably absorbed into the Men of Eriador during the Second Age. The Forodwaith and Lossoth are an entirely different group.
I also wondered where the men of Carn Dum came from.
Never heard of them but it was so interesting to learn something new
Well they helped and warned Arvedui. So no Morgoth worshipers.
Very interesting video!
Brilliant
Sinking of Beleriand at the end of First Age when much of the land sank below the sea, dragons forced them near the coasts, the change of the world when we are told the sea rolled in and the coastline was changed and then the Witch-King captures many and killed many when he established Angmar, or maybe the Lossoth are some that escaped and some good Hill Men of Rhudaur that escaped and merged with them, thus creating the Lossoth.
Very interesting!
Love the spelling and feel.
If Forodwaith were raiders, they most likely served Morgoth. Perhaps they were the ones that controlled access to the lands east of Beleriand. Then came the hungry dragons, trolls and orcs. That would be a great reason to convert, wouldn't it? Those who remained faithful just became travelling rations for them.
To be fair, if a man from Oxford learned about a place like Nunavut with -50 degree winters, he'd probably name it something like "The Grinding Ice" too.
Ah that was fun 😀 Could you consider to do a video on the stone of Erech? I think it may be the named artefact in the legendarium that we know least about. I like to believe that such stones were an element in the Numénorean religion. And I like the idea that it spiritually competes with a dark temple, built by the Men of the Mountains (Baldor seems to have been directed to such a temple)
The loss of their lands into the sea, seems like the likely explanation. It's simple. The remnants are survivors of that catastrophe. If the land was taken slowly many of them could have gone south and mixed with other tribes.
New suscriber love your work
All of these are good answers, but I have another. Eru and the reshaping of Arda. When Eru changed the shape of Arda we are told new lands rose and some sank. Even the mouth of the Anduin changed and Pelargir was moved from the mouth of the river to far inland. We can see this in some maps of the Second Age.
I definitely get vibes of the ancient Thule people of Greenland from the Forodwaith. Perhaps there was some inspiration from the native peoples of Greenland and northern Canada? Either way, great series and decent advice.
You are awesome. Period.
How the hell did they get up there anyway if Angband was in the way? Did Morgoth just allow them free passage and if so what would be the point?
Morgoth told his human follows to settle in lands near his main fortress in the North, to provide labor & tribute. Those there now are probably thier descendants.
@@jacobhoover1654 ok that kinda makes sense. Labor up there must have been the shits! Lol
Love your videos
Thanks for this
Forodwaith... literally NOTHING! I still think there could have been something... men, orcs, dragons, dwarves, elves... maybe even some hobbit relatives.But it still probably is very empty... like northernmost siberia, northern finnland and the like.tolkien liked the kalevala so i like to think of Foroswaith as pohjola.All of that is speculative, headcanon and fanfic of course...
Cheers
I don't believe all these guys are evil perhaps some of them were and followed Morgoth and went to persecute and make war with the others who did not obey Morgoth.
A lot of Dragons live in the North. It's possible that after the defeat of Morgoth with a large section of the continent gone and many mountains inland flattened any kingdoms or tribes and clans that survived would have to then deal with the dragons and other creatures of Morgoth that moved north and if some of their people followed Morgoth then civil war could of continued as well severly dwindling their already devastated resources.
The conflict probably would last for a long time and occure more and more at certain points which would be devastating and these people would struggle to make a living and survive for a long time let alone rebuild everything from scratch.
Video idea; Middle-Earth Mysteries The Last Desert.
i enjoyed forodwaith in lotro waaaay back in the day
My theory is that they were forcefully evicted from life
Most likely they served or were forced to serve the witch king and the Dunedain destroyed them.
Is it a sad name, definition can be different than an answer of a teaching, is why different many belief exist. What does it mean? Could it be our assumption? Assumption and common sense can be created by "teachings"(a-belief educations) - wrong is either doctrine or unknown?
I want to try make a "assumption game" - if me i would think this is the best fishing spot.
A game we dont know yet of the answer, a quiz that is a mystery. I think this is fun if we have to go forodwaith.
A lot of them were probably turned into orcs by morgoth
"...or just need a refresher..." What native English speaker wouldn't know what "remnant" means? That's, like, elementary-level English...so I guess I answered my own question: children. lol XD
I thought the peoples of Forodwaith, were called Forodrim.
Essentially eskimos.
0:55
i thought they were ruled by sigvald the magnificent who is the son of slannesh
its rather annoying when the writing appears on the screen and then the narrator reads something that totally isn't on the screen at all you know its a good thing I am familiar with most of the source material but that doesn't mean it doesn't bug me when i go to read along you know then the narrator ends up reading something else that make it rather difficult to follow along unless you know the source material because i have read these books many times other than that whoever is narrating this isn't doing that bad
Maybe they were such devoted Melkor worshippers that they viewed Sauron and his servants as pretenders and usurpers. Probably not, but hey.
Live somewhere cold? It's a billion degrees in Moscow my dude
Tolkien usually likes to make history become a tale. I’m going with the theory that the Forodwaith were like the Vikings. The ended up in the north in search of far away lands. They were a hardy folk. We knew they feared the witch king so I’m also down with that theory. That is that the witch king destroyed most of their people. The Lossoth now live near a water source. That means food. Just saying