Fox Hunt! (Radio Direction Finding) - Ham Radio Q&A
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Today I'm on a Fox Hunt. There's a hidden transmitter somewhere in the city and my mission is to find it.
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#foxhunt
#hiddentransmitter
#ARDF
We’ve supplied transmitters for fox hunt competitions in Canada, super friendly folks thank you for always being a pleasure to work with!
I thank you for sharing your fox hunting tools and techniques. Our club is conducting a fox hunt in September and I am beginning to learn about those 2 things. Your demonstration was definitely helpful.
I did a few fox hunts back in the 70s with cb radios. I had dual 8' phased whips on the rear fenders of the car. I usually came out on top..
Michael, really enjoyed that video. It brightened me up in lock down UK. Thank you..
Glad you enjoyed it. We're still locked down too but are allowed to get out and enjoy the fresh air. Fox hunting is a good group activity where everyone participating can maintain a social distance.
@@KB9VBRAntennas ha, really, excellent use of ham-radio in the current conditions
When I was a teenager thirty some odd years ago, the club I was a part of did a few fox hunts. I rode along with other hams and helped them out. It doesn’t seem to happen as much with the club I’m part of now or other ones in the area.
The attenuator box is a good idea. It stuck out in my mind that people would take the antenna off the HT and point it once they got close to the transmitter. I don’t remember how well this worked though.
Thanks a lot for this and the rest of your videos Micheal. This is Carl KB9HPM
Our group did a fox hunt last year . It was really fun ! We're supposed to have another one soon .
This is so interesting! Video made it really easy to understand how to participate in a foxhunt. Thanks for posting!
My first intorudciton to ham radio was on fox hutns with my brother. I was the navagator and I can recall hanging out the passenger window whenever he slowed down so I could get a reading.
Good times. :-)
Back in the day, we would search for other hams sitting in their car hidden somewhere in the city, so we were hunting the ham not an automated station. One of the more memorable hunts was the guy who hid accross the street from the gathering point in a large box in the back of a beat-up ol' station wagon.
Nothing like this in my area now, and yes, I know, that mean I can start something. :D
Years ago our club did the 'mobile fox.' Someone would announce on the repeater that they are hiding and then switch to simplex for others to find him.
Those tape measure beams actually work fairly well. I made one years ago and still use it. Thanks for another great video, Michael! 73’s....
I put heat shrink on the elements of mine they look quite similar to those silly tacticool Abbree antennas that are popular now. While making it I sliced my finger on the cut edge of one of the tape sections and I determined not to do that again, also I have leather seats in my car and I for sure don’t want to damage those.
@@daa3417 Great tip! Question for you: where do you find big enough heat shrink tubing to go around measuring tape material? Most of what I find in stores will barely fit around a pencil.
@@daa3417 that is exactly what we used for our Harris prc 152 and our Thales 148 GEMS in the army. heat shrink came off the broken ones and I was like, 'wait...this is simply unmarked tape measure segments' made a bunch as soon as I got back from deployment.
@@adamreznik6374 Home depot or Lowes....or if you can find a professional electrician parts house in your area, they will definitely carry that size heat shrink.
That is so cool. I have to see if anyone around here does this, looks like a lot of fun!
Tape measure antenna is a great tool and very inexpensive to build. I added an offset annunciator to mine with a variable gain knob and use the Yaesu FT817ND without the mic to avoid transmitting and damaging the annuciator. The signal strength meter works great for this. For even more annunciation I can use the 817's RF gain or just go off frequency to get exact direction headings. Great video of your fox hunt!
Thanks for sharing! I can see your local fish wrapper headlines. Wausau City Councilman gone rogue walking down the railroad tracks with a suspicious device in hand.
That's why people get arrested for trespassing on the right-of-way of the railroad
@@414RadioTech oh jeeze....lighten up buddy! Maybe if there were notices posted every couple hundred feet we'd see them and obey, and I'm quite sure you guys have one or two brand new "boots" slaving around the agency that could handle taking a truck or two, you guys ride around in all day arresting unsuspecting citizens jogging or enjoying a nature walk, a task posting notices on the accessible open to the right away roads.
Congrats on finding the fox Michael, what a cool way to polish your skill set.
Great pile of fun wish I could have been there to learn more from you.
We have radio foxhunting events on a regular basis here in Eastbourne UK.Great fun and always learning new tricks . 73 Ian.G7HFS
Thanks for letting us share this with you. 73.
I joyed your hunt for the fox, but do have questions about the attenuator. Did you build the attenuator? Can you go more in-depth about the attenuator?
Thx!
Paul
KK6AAQ
73
Paul E second that request
Thrice requested.
KD9MSP Fourth requested. Looks like an easy project to do a little electronic work. Thanks! Sorry I missed the hunt this weekend.
I bought a neat little attenuator kit from 3rd Planet Solar. Very inexpensive, about $10.
Here's a quick video on how to build one and where to get the parts. ua-cam.com/video/5v38vdbsEjg/v-deo.html - KC3HUL
Thanks for the video. I used to hunt with handheld radio's, cables and seperate antennas but they always break when you need it. Cables get damaged etc... And also, having 100 dB of attenuation and then behind that attenuator having RG58 coax and a plastic housed radio will give you direct radiation into your receiver once you get very close. This is why you needed to search the park at the end rather than keeping on direction finding. The yagi is bypassed by all the direct signals into the receiver. Better is to integrate antenna and a shielded receiver so no cables are needed. Also make sure you turn down the sensitivity of the receiver rather than attenuate the signal and leave the receiver at max sensitivity. Yes, this all requires a diferent receiver setup, but it is surely worth it. Here across the pond we do most hunts on foot, ARDF or foxoring style. But I think it's the same amount of enjoyment and fun. 73, Alex PA1FOX
That was a great hunt! We have a pretty active Fox Hunt group here in CT and I've been having a lot of fun looking for boxes myself recently.
Your wife was by far more excited then you. LOL.
That, my friend, was rather enjoyable! I had no idea this was a thing and here I am thinking to myself "poor fox". Although I must say...you might be too good, using land nav. I attended Pathfinder when I was tuning radios in the Signal Corp(US ARMY). Although it is a part of a much larger block of training, I was lucky enough to been able to just attend this advanced land nav training. So seeing you use those specific tools made this a video after my own heart, so w/that said...kudos on finding the "fox" and I bid you 7-3!
I'm glad you enjoyed it. The techniques I demonstrated were simple Boy Scout stuff. It amazes me that more people don't use a map and compass in searching for hidden transmitters.
Great video, as always. Thanks for taking us along. I am hoping to see a few more of these activities around my area once the restrictions are lifted.
Glad to see the fun. No social distancing required.
There were quite a few people on the path and island that morning. Funny how they keep a distance when you wave around a big antenna and beeping radio
Do you have any information about the plans to build or where to buy an attenuator like the one you used? Great video.
in the late 80's we used to play cb tag with the hot rods,, much fun!
I would have swapped out the tape measure yagi for the Arrow and called it a different kinda win.
Looks like a lot of fun
Nice work! Is there a reporting procedure for the local authorities to let them know this device is non-harmful? I could only imagine what a non-ham coming across it would think.
The fox is clearly marked as to what it is with contact information on it. But to be safe you can always give the local police department a call and let them know what you are doing. Typically we hide the fox in public locations that are out of the way as not to attract attention of bystanders
I had the same thought. How is it that the bomb squad doesn't get called?
Wow really cool. I wish if we had challenges like these in our country.
I used to take part in fox hunts and used a hand held radio and an attenuator with a very similar antenna, but when I was on full antenuation and had a very strong signal, I would turn the antenna 180 degrees to try and get the weakest rx and draw a line on my map as that would be the opposite direction from the signal source, that worked for me. Plus, I used a motorcycle to get me around quicker.... I used to be the first to detect the fox many times. Fun times. 73 DE G1YYU
Turning the antenna 180 degrees and working off the null is a great idea.
Really enjoyed this video. I was excited about watching you hunt. Definitely have to try this. I'm off to find info on attenuation.
Just done a hunt here in Chattanooga Tennessee. with your help I found it in the back of a truck through the window. Thanks for your knowledge. Much appreciated 👍
I have always used the back side of a beam, looking for a null, in the direction of the transmitter... but it seems that using an attenuator is probably almost as good! :)
Very cool, you made it look easy, although I know that's not the case. Seeing this in action makes it much more interesting than the study materials can let on to be. Too bad the antenna can't roll back into itself then stored in the glove box.
The tape measure sections of the antennas CAN be folded in half upon themselves to make it smaller for transport.
Appreciate this video. Thanks
Woooow that looks super fun I d love to try!! Nice video!
Y'all are weird. I love it! 😂✌
cool stuff KB9VBR!
Of course I had a nasty thought: arrange a fox hunt, take the fox with you and drive around the city all day long.
Music is 🔥
If possible, could you do a video on how the fox is built? My local club wants me to do a presentation on foxhunting and I think this is a clever idea of having the fox transmit the callsign. It's very similar to the video Rob(seven fourty-one) put out. Good job on finding it though.
William Shipitalo, it would be cool to see a break down of the fox.
Quite a few out on You Tube on building FOXBOXES.
BYONICS has several controllers. Radios with VOX control of an external mic can be used with an MP3 player. For smaller hunts use a HT with the external speaker/mic plug and the controller. For larger use a small mobile with the control set up. The one thing to look for between the HTs and the Mobiles are the way they key the transmitters. HTs usually have a 2.2k ohm resistor in line with the audio keying circuit. The mobiles don't like that and want a separate audio and keying line.
Building a CHEAP FOXBOX. Arduino FOXBOX controllers. BYONICS. Many different ways.
TIP for MP3 voice foxes. Make 1 min. blank files for timing. This is your base. Make a 10 to 15 second wisecrack and mix it into the 1 min. file. Could be at the start. Could be at the end. If you are wanting to do 2 foxes, stick one wisecrack at the first of the min. for FOX #1. Do this with all the wisecracks for fox #1. For FOX #2 put the wisecracks at the END of the 1 min. file. What this does is when you use 2 MP3 players, FOX #1 goes off at the first of the minute. After the wisecrack it goes silent. Then at the end of the minute FOX #2 goes off. Says his wisecrack and then goes silent. UNTIL the next min. and you do it all over again. This can be used with 3 foxes at 20 seconds each.
Great video and good fun fox hunting 👍
That was awesome! Love your videos!
Looks like fun
Fox hunting while rocking to favorite Danish Classical
I was waiting for someone to spot the CD case.
Interesting. Gonna check the beam video out. Thanks
Great job. If you were looking for neighborhood QRM what hand held radio would you recommend? Also on antenna I like your yagi or a mag loop of sorts.
That was a wrench in the works, a Yagi on the transmitter.
Enjoyed the video. Seems like fun!!
I need to make that attenuators. What size resistors and how is the circuit? .
That attenuation box is interesting, and looks home brew, do you have a video showing how to make it?
The attenuator is homebrew, I picked it up at a hamfest years ago.
@@KB9VBRAntennas can you open it and tell us what’s inside, like resistors or capacitors? I could make a schematic for it if I could get to you for a few hours but I live in NC. ☹️☹️☹️
Michael, Thanks for another great video. A question, can you use a Banfong handheld Radio for foxhunting. I have read some articles online saying that they don't work well for foxhunting. Has that been your experience?
You can use a Baofeng handheld fox hunting‚ but there are some circumstances where it won't work as well. First off‚ the S-Meter on the radio isn't the most user friendly so it can be tough to tell the difference between a weak and strong signal. But the bigger issue with the radio is that the SDR receiver it uses is incompatible with Offset Attenuators.
There are two styles of attenuators on the market. Passive or Resistive attenuators use resistors in series to knock down the signal strength. That's the type of attenuator I used in the video and they will work with a Baofeng handheld. The second type‚ called Offset attenuators use a circuit containing a local oscillator to create attenuation based on an offset frequency. These attenuators can be more sensitive when searching for a very low powered transmitter and provide a higher level of attenuation when working with powerful ones. But in order to use one‚ you need a radio with a Superheterodyne receiver. SDR receivers will not work.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Michael, Thanks for the additional information. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.
very interesting !
Great video! This video reminds me of a time when I helped locate an illegal cordless phone that was transmitting on the input of a repeater with 40+ mile coverage. I used an Icom IC-2720 mobile and I adjusted the variable attenuation until I got the location narrowed down to a 2 square mile area. From there the repeater trustee took over with a setup similar to the one in this video and located the person operating the cordless phone.
Doing the Lord's work. So happy there are folks like you doing this.
Great vid. So what exactly is in the box? And what generates the tones every minute or so? Is that a DIY box?
Hey Michael how do they make a fox transmitter where people like you go find it I saw that he had a radio how does he program that to Translate every few seconds ???
The one in the video is a PicCon controller made by BYONICS. They have a couple of types of Fox Controllers. This type is a tones and MORSE CODE style controller. If you use an MP3 player with a radio with a vox mic, you can program the files to send the message and control the timing by how long the file is with delay files between the audio file. If you make a 10 second wise crack, put it onto a 1 min. long file, then put 10 such files together, you can have a 10 min. hunt. FCC id every 10 min. Make more jokes or loop the files for a longer hunt. If you don't have a radio with internal VOX, find an old Radio Shack VOX mic and use that. They can be modified to stretch the VOX delay so that you don't cut off the punch line of the joke.
Here are a few www.byonics.com/mf - KC3HUL
The Fox is using the Byonics controller. I guess I'll be hiding the fox next so I'll do a detailed breakdown of it in a video
KB9VBR Antennas ok thanks Michael
What kind of tones did you guys program in that controller 9:04 9:13 it’s like a 7 tone before it IDs. If I could get those tones in numbers that would be great.
Hey Michael can u refer me to one of your videos regarding home brew yagi for uhf? I have a problematic underage operator in my area that continuously tries to interrupt comms that he has no business being a part of. Trying to find him so I can call him out to the fcc. I am on gmrs (hoping to soon have a ham ticket) and this little bugger is using a blister pack radio to try and talk to anyone he hears on it. 2 Sunday’s ago he darn near blocked out my receive while I was on a net check-in thru a rptr 25 miles from where I live. I’ve told this youngster he can’t be on gmrs ch’s 15-22 without a license but he still persists. He’s even tried to do it on a local rptr here in my hometown when he hears it active, but he doesn’t have any luck ( hee hee).. And your videos are great, u need to add a little more humour to them. Will be waiting for your reply 73 de WRCY292 (gmrs).
Does it matter what Atennuator you buy? Do you have any links that I could go to? then buy one that's decent? Great video by the way thanks for sharing. I definitely want to try this.
KG5SFT
_but did you turn on the radios attenuator?_
Very cool, thank you.
What is the range on your slim jim antenna with the leixion vv-898 at 25 watts of transmitting power. ( general rule of thumb ) thank you!
Fun, fun. We just went fox hunting a few weeks ago! And ended nearly the same. My team mate had and used, his tape measure Yagi antenna, with great success! I gotta build one of those, your DIY video looked easy!
Thanks! KE4WRN
What attenuator are you using in this video?
The attenuator is home made, I found it at a hamfest for a few bucks.
We are in the process of wanting to build FOX hunting in our area, can you, or do you already have a video for building your attenuator? Thanks KF0EDT
Can you tell me what company makes the antenna that was used for the fox in this video?
It's an Arrow Antennas handheld Yagi: www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/146-437.html
Do you have to use an attenuator? I noticed the signal sounded strong in most all directions. How did you determine strong point - the bars on the radio? The antenna is great, but most of us don't have an attenuator. Thanks, again.
An attenuator makes it easier, but you can foxhunt without one. One method is when the signal gets strong is to switch to the 2nd or 3rd harmonic frequency (2x or 3x the fundamental). Listening to the 3rd harmonic is the equivalent of up to 60db of attenuation.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Completed my first trial fox hunt with tape measure yagi. Problem is when I'm within 100 ft of the transmitter, even on 3rd harmonic, with the yagi pointed backwards and horizontal, the signal strength still is full bars on the S meter. Any suggestions on increasing attenuation when close up? Thanks again.
Looking for you to get introduced to MULTI-FOX hunting. ARDF style.
I love to try it out sometime, was thinking of using the second harmonic if getting really close. Any experience on this?
How awesome
hi this is nick,n9wax,i watched your intrested videos and i have a question , when you make a step attenuator but for 70 cm band do you have to solder all the resistors more closer together compare to using it in 2meters due to shorter wave length in uhf?i am more in uhf and most videos i see of fox hunting are in vhf but hardly in uhf,?maybe is not that practible or harder on 70 cm.please email me the answers,thank you.
No you don't. An attenuator is nothing more than resistors in series. There isn't any special spacing due to their frequency.
@@KB9VBRAntennas but in UHF,all the imternal leads have to be shorter and the enclosure box will be smaller compare to VHF,am I right?long leads inside separating more the resitors for UHF higher frequencies could affect the function?
Nice Job how long did it take you from G8SBS UK (John) Radio Ham
His radio has a built in attenuation, would have helped a bunch
Typically the built in attenuation isn't enough to sniff out a transmitter. When you get close, it can take up to 80dB of attenuation to see deflection on the signal meter.
Fox was also horizontally polarized
Another element of confusion. Holding your antenna horizontally is another method of dropping the signal strength as you get close. With this fox‚ that tactic didn't work so well.
for the directional finding, can you tell me why only one director element? Seems like if you're trying to triangulate you would want a narrow beam.
You can use a longer antenna, but in reality you don't need a lot of gain, just a good front to back ratio. That is strong reception in the front and deep nulls in the back. Plus a longer antenna will be heavier and more unwieldy while on foot.
@@KB9VBRAntennas i guess when you use an S-meter to determine signal strength then the granularity is so bad that it really doesn't matter. i would think for best performance you need something that shows the signal strength in steps of 1 dBm, that updates in real-time, and a lot more elements for a narrow beam.
Possibly, but what sounds good in theory may not be the best in reality. You don't need a high level of precision in searching for a fox. If the S meter gets swamped, you increase the attenuation until you have a good amount of deflection on the meter.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I'm not an amateur (thinking about becoming one) but I do have a mystery signal in my area that I want to track down. I have a logarithmic detector that I want to utilize. The input range is about -50 to 0 dBm. I don't even think I'll need to attenuate anything, I'll let you know how it goes.
Can't hear you for the QRM, MUSIC!
That was MUSIC?? I disagree. Rhythmic noise does not make it music.
Have you stopped making videos? Why no new content about FoxHunts?
I'm making videos all the time. Our club hasn't done a fox hunt in about 18 months. I'll have to get another organized.
KB9VBR! I’m KB9SVR! lol. Did you get your license in 1998? Or 1999?
First licensed in August of 1999. I'm guessing you must have been about mid-1998.
@@KB9VBRAntennas yep! I got my callsign right after I got home from Dayton in 1998.
Sorry, I have to...
What does the fox say?
The fox should have broadcast that song instead of CW.
go away I am sleeping
Female Fox, nice hot sexy voice, " Hi There. I'm a FOX and I Really Really need to be found!" You'll piss off any YLs on the hunt but the guy's usually go crazy.
Where do you find attenuators?
MFJ makes an attenuator: www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-001246
Did you drive around in a circle to help triangulate the source?
Not necessarily in a circle. By the time I had two headings plotted on the map‚ I was able to drive to that spot‚ get out of the car‚ and walk around until I found it.
Where is there an island in Wausau?
Wausau has two islands. Barker-Stewart island‚ the one I was on‚ is located just north of the hydro dam across from the Dudley tower. Fern island is located south of the dam next to Oak Island park.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Cool, next time we visit Rib Mountain we will check them out.
Kinda like GEOCACHING without a GPS satellite.
You've got it!
What radio and antenna did do you have in your car ?
Radio is the Yaesu FTM-400XDR and antenna is the Comet SBB7. I have a video of my mobile radio install: ua-cam.com/video/TmKBqVXF1eM/v-deo.html
And those of you that didn't know, this is how operators can find you when you're using a ham and you are unlicensed to do so.... they will find you mwuhahahaha
many bootleggers have been caught this way however the really cool part was few years ago a ham that was a truck driver had a medical emergency he keyed the mike but not able to talk ...
they used this great tool to find the driver and was able to save his life
Yeah well it's shit like this that people can find and when they find the transmitter of that stupid Fox like I'm going to do next year when I go fox hunting like that I'll find it and when I do I'll be the first one to steal it and all the equipment there in the little bag then sell it on eBay or Craigslist so that's my plan next year no matter how hard they hide the thing it's no match for me I'll be the first one to find it and when I find the transmitter boom everything is going to be walking away for good the owners never going to see his equipment again because it's most likely going to be put on Craigslist or Marketplace or Ebay most likely
I'm so glad you cats are out here doing the Lord's work. Bravo good sir's. May the Lord continue to bless you in ways unimagined!!
shooting those poor foxes how mean LOL ;)
What about a loop antenna?
Loop antennas can be used in fox hunting and may be a good choice for close in work. But they have one problem: they will receive a signal off the sides in equal strengths and have nulls of equal depth in the front and back. Since there is no front to back strength ratio like in Yagi antennas‚ you can't really tell which direction the signal is coming from.
Loop antennas can be made directional by adding a 9" sense antenna to one side of the loop. The side away from the sense antenna is the front with the most gain the sense end is the back and the least gain. Get a bearing just using the loop. Then add the sense antenna to find out which way the signal is coming from. Check out " Transmitter Hunting. Radio Direction Finding Simplified " Joe Moell
But why?
That was too easy to spot because anybody could have stolen that even myself wouldn't be a bad idea either especially it being on the railroad right-of-way where it shouldn't have even been I would have taken it and nobody would have saw it I should go on Fox hunts more often so that way I find that I can take it and then sell it on eBay in fact I do have plans on being there next year to go fox hunting and when I find it then I'll steal the whole damn transmitter and sell it either on eBay or Marketplace or Craigslist or to a local pawn shop got to get money somehow sold the owner of the next transmitter Hunt is going to be out of equipment and be shit out of luck because once I find that thing I'm taking it all the whole damn box and antennas
I could do without the background music, very distracting imo
I really like your videos, but I hate that damn electronic music. Please leave it out. It's not necessary.
I don’t understand why people play music over their voice on their videos, it’s do anoying
is this allowed in airsoft lmfao imagine
It's not like anyone would stay in one spot waiting for you lol
Annoying music
Loved the video but, what a major safety violation and trespassing. Having to cross railroad tracks to get to the fox may seem innocuous but almost 1,000 people a year die with train encounters. Railroad Police are the most unfriendly law enforcement agency, glad you didn't have a run in. Be safer. Love my J-Pole.
Normally I would be concerned about the tracks. The fox was hidden in a public park and you can see the walking trail on one side of the tracks. That particular line is exempt as it may get a train through there once or twice a month. But yes- stay off the tracks.