Admiral Andrew Cunningham - War, France and Italy (Part 3)
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2023
- Today we continue our look at the interwar career of Admiral Cunningham, one of the greatest 20th century Admirals of the Royal Navy.
Part 1: • Admiral Andrew Cunning...
Part 2: • Admiral Andrew Cunning...
Sources:
www.amazon.co.uk/Sailors-Odys...
www.amazon.co.uk/Cunningham-P...
www.amazon.co.uk/Admiral-Flee...
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/press/books?f%5B...
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'Legionnaire' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
Pinned post for Q&A :)
on a previous drydock you mentioned that the Elco Thunderbolt was too weak to do any significant damage against other Torpedo boats. However I remember hearing a bit of hearsay saying that the Elco Thunderbolt was experimentally mounted on a few larger vessels and tested as an AA platform, particularly against Kamakazi attack (especially the 2nd model with the 4 Orlikons), do you have any information on this? and also, if the Elco Thunderbolt's development had come about earlier in the war do you think that it could have been a popular option for a "light" AA gun among allied vessels?
Do you think the Mers el Kabir tragedy could have been avoided if the officers (so to speak) on the ground were allowed to handle it, without the backseat diplomacy from the government?
Were some of the lower-ranking French officers and sailors stuck in Alexandria, who favored continuing the fight, able to defect to the Free-French/British?
At some point in the future do you plan to do a special on the Lesser known Naval battles of the great wars, yet they were significant ? Such as operation infatuate which was after Overlord. And the first true naval battle of World War 1 which didn't even take place on the Seas but on a lake in Africa between steamers.
I would love to learn more about the roles, achievements, and other shenanigans of spotter planes, especially Warspite's planes that seem to have done so much from Narvik to Normandy (or even later).
Got to admire the behavior of both Godfroy and Cunigham in such a horrific situation I can only imagine how terrible it would be to be in Godfory's shoes...
My grand father was captain of hms decoy! I now have to check if he was captain responsible for the first blood against the Italians. Also decoys war service is probably good enough to earn its own 5 minute guid or at least a good chunk of a d class guide
Edit it was him!
I hardly thought it possible that my admiration Admiral Cunningham could be higher but, after watching this terrific video, it duly is. What an extraordinary diplomat he was, in addition to being such a superb naval commander. Thank you Drach, another great piece of work.
one incredible guy
Well said!
Yeah, considering that I had always thought of the UK in WW2 as General Montgomery & was not impressed by the way he handled himself. Looking at Admiral Cunningham and even Somerville for that matter gives you a much better idea of what the Brits were up to during WW2. Plus the Battle of Britain with the RAF putting a stop to Operation Sea Lion was a crucial part of the war too. Because of the failure of the Battle of Britain, Hitler decided to attack Russia. Which once Germany had the USA & Russia poised against it and the UK as well... Germany was in for a major sh!t storm!!! Talking about biting off more than you can chew? Hitler must have gotten it in his head that he couldn't lose no matter what. When the Battle of Britain should have taught him the exact opposite. You can't take on the whole world all at once! No country is THAT strong. Not the USA, UK, Russia, or China. War sucks. People have to fight & kill & die. I don't like the idea of having to kill or be killed! Even though I would do so to protect our way of life. It doesn't mean that it's something I would enjoy. However, I do have a deep admiration and appreciation for those that have!
Nature is healing. We got Admiral Nelsons' fourth episode, and now Admiral Cunninghams' third.
Now we only need the last carrier and destroyer development episodes....
and maybe after that we will be blessed with Leyte Gulf series @@boreasreal5911
We left the pacific submarine campaign hanging on a cliff too😮
And so does the Ironclads Saga...
Let's hear it for Mrs Nona Cunnningham, a true officer's wife.
Cunningham's letter to Dudley Pound was a thing of beauty - a masterclass in very politely letting the boss know how angry he was... wonderful.
diplomatic blue murder
Yes. Cunningham appears to have been an admiral who was calm, collected, diplomatic, insightful, and thoroughly competent, who was unfortunately forced to take orders from a First Sea Lord who was none of those things.
@@michaelimbesi2314 "from a First Sea Lord who was none of those things"
Not so. Dudley Pound had two severe problems. The first was that he was in poor health. The second and far more serious is that Pound had to deal with the insane attempts by Winston Churchill who insisted on micromanaging everything. The malign effects of Churchill's repeated and usually disastrous medling has rarely received proper consideration and study. The best thing about the appointment of Dwight Eisenhower as SHAEF commander is that it removed completely Winston from any ability to interfere with his own amatuerish interference in everything.
I think we might need a special for Warspite's spotter plane at this rate. Records seem to suggest that the float plane shot down an Bf109 over Narvik, dive bombed some destroyers and then it seemed the spotter plane flew around the Italian flag ship joking that they can't hit the broadside of a barndoor at Calabria. That's some shenanigans for a float plane and its only 1940!
It sunk a u boat at Narvik.
The interaction of Cunningham and Godfrey in Alexandria is the a shining example of not acting rash when under pressure. We have Cunningham to thank for there not being two major British on French tragedies in the Mediterranean. Drach, you have once again done an absolutely splendid job and I am always excited for Wednesday morning because I know that we will get a good history lesson and a fantastic amount of dry humor and wit to go along with it. Keep it up, I look forward to seeing how you manage to tackle Lucky Fluckey and USS Barb!
Is "Lucky" really how the men of the USN chose to rhyme with "Fluckey"? Maybe someone should have reminded *them* that it takes 160 years to build an ironclad reputation for profanity but just one sanitized press release to ruin it.
I am rather early in listening to this portion of the Cunningham series. But it sounds like the Admiral had a previously unappreciated aide-de-camp. Mrs. Cunningham (who barely merits a line in most of his basic biographical entries) certainly seems to have been a very sensible, brave, and resourceful spouse who was a genuine helpmate to her husband. Bless her.
And on moonless nights he would leave his flag-ship to dine with her. If I had been lucky enough to havva wife like her I would say, " I fell in Love with you, I married you, I'll never want another. "
Does sound like she did a damn fine job. Though I do like the idea of her rocking up somewhere to request something and someone staring down their nose at her and saying "And you are Madam?" to which she could answer "Admiral Cunningham's wife". In the Med in 1940 that's a win the game card 🙂.
Filed in the admirals fireplace GREAT LINE!!
Three cheers for MRS. Cunningham. She seems like a tough lady.
That Alexandria section. I normally don't comment until I'm actually finished the video, but man, what an inspiring story. I got to the final, last hope of the British captains personally going to talk to their paired French captain counterparts and I just... absolutely broke down in tears, truly and honestly.
Warspite beating the convoy back: *Jeremy Clarkson voice* POWEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Speed and power!!!
How have I never heard the story of the resolution of the situation of the French fleet at Alexandria before today? The fact that a fight was avoided so close on the heels of the tragedy at Mers-el-kabeir is truly remarkable. The personal respect Cunningham and the French admiral held for each other was the crucial factor.
To my fellow Americans, who I too often see speaking dismissively of our allies, this story is exactly why you treat your allies with respect as fellow intelligent beings with their own allegiances and desires. You can't possibly align with each other about everything and sometimes you'll have to grit your teeth and accept that your allies will disappoint you. You don't want lapdogs as allies whom you bully into going along with your every decision, because that causes resentment and they'll pull away as soon as the solid human waste hits the fan. But if you treat your allies with the respect they deserve, sometimes when it really matters, they'll remember how you treated them and really important moments will turn out well because of it. We've certainly seen the fruits of this general policy in NATO's response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Now that NATO faces a concrete threat from the Russians, we've all more or less pulled together to send weapons, ammo, and training to Ukraine. It's extremely gratifying to see this unfold, even if the cause is a terrible war in Europe.
34:10 "...offering their sincerest congratulations on his achievements in resolving the situation without bloodshed."
One has to wonder how hard it was for him to resist writing back "no thanks to you bloody idiots".
at least in some respect, it can be said their conflicting and dumb orders were due to Churchill's meddling. So the follow up letters might have been their own sigh of relief at the events that transpired the way they did.
It seems an Admiral's main talent is ignoring his senior's orders when they're not advantageous to securing victory be it at sea or in harbour. Nelson did it and so too did Cunningham.
I attended a naval boarding school in The 1960’s, and most of the staff were ex RN. A favourite teacher, Commander West, would regale us young lads with stories of naval exploits, and none were more enjoyed than tales of Admiral Cunningham.
The French Battlewagon Lorraine was the one Bretagne class ship to be modernized. France was allowed five capital ships under the Treaty regime and they would be Dunkerque, Strasburg, Richelieu, Jean Bart and Lorraine (until a follow on to Jean Bart could be commissioned).
Armament
5 × 2 - 340mm/45 Modèle 1912 guns
22 × 1 - 138.6 mm Mle 1910 guns
7 × 1 - 47-millimetre (1.9 in) guns
4 × 450 mm (18 in) torpedo tubes
Armor
Belt: 270 mm (11 in)
Decks: 40 mm (1.6 in)
Conning tower: 314 mm (12.4 in)
Turrets: 250-340 mm (9.8-13.4 in)
Casemates: 170 mm (6.7 in)
She had four refits prior to WW2 ". During these periods in dock, the range of the main battery was increased, the anti-aircraft battery was strengthened, and her boilers were replaced with newer, oil-fired models. Between 18 September 1934 and 20 September 1935, a fourth and final pre-war refit was carried out in Brest; Lorraine's amidships turret was removed, and an aircraft catapult along with a hangar for three aircraft were installed. "
After joining the Free French in 1942, she was refitted at Oran in 1943. "The work included removing the aircraft facilities and installing a large number of anti-aircraft guns, including eight 75 mm (2.95 in) guns, fourteen 40 mm (1.6 in) guns, and twenty-five 20 mm (0.79 in) guns. Radar equipment was also installed on the ship."
She provided Naval Gunfire Support for the invasion of southern France, then spent time in the Bay of Biscay, 1944-45, bombarding French ports held by the Germans, These ports were besieged on land by newly raised infantry battalions comprised of ex-FFI men to give them some combat experience before they were posted to the French 1st Army, which formed the rank flank of the Allied host on the Western Front.
Sounds like a good ship for a five minute guide, thx for the synopsis 👍
Drach, I believe a Childrens Book possibly about the evolution of Naval Warships over the last 250 years or so, or go back much much further, would be a really big hit with young kids world wide, but especially with kids of those who closely follow your channel. Best part would be large detailed pictures of the ships with descriptions of its various components.
My grandson would love it.
At eight years old, I would have devoured such a book.
@@spikespa5208 myself
@@spikespa5208I’d devour it now 😂
@@jmcc4566Same, I'd love such a book.
Thank you for your service Adm Cunningham and thank you for your service to his service Captain Drach.
I named one of my twin daughters after the gladiator's on Malta, first name Faith middle name hope, I wanted to name the other kid charity but their mom wasn't having it
The stand off in Alexandria would make an excellent movie.
YOU'VE GOT TO DO ONE ON SPRUANCE!
Raymond Spruance was the architect of the US Navy's greatest victories in the Pacific, but is largely unrecognized for his contribution to the victory over Japan.
Agreed. Everything is put in terms of Halsey and his screwups and missed battles, not in terms of the men who actually won those battles.
"Did someone say... WARSPITE?!?!?"
Come on, you know we all want it as a sticker.
I just finished the book Fortress Malta by James Hilland my favorite WWll author. In that book we learn how Admiral Cunningham truly was a great leader and his impact on the early war was much larger than many know.
There's a book called "Their Finest Hour" in which some of the Admiralty's weirder behavior is mentioned. Churchill and the "old gang" from WW1 are part of the mix. It is a truly excruciating book, but well worth reading in context with Cunningham's issues.
Admiral Cleverbacon was the finest fighting fleet commander of WW2.
Loving this series about Cunningham. The next episode can't come soon enough for my liking. My favourite ww2 admiral and my favourite battleship of all time in the same episode. Bliss😊
My favorite British naval officer.
Cunningham did an excellent job of diplomacy with the French. I do believe (I may be wrong) that Lord Nelson was also a good diplomat when needed.
"He achieved his objectives without having to resort to bloodshed" is probably the best that can be said about a military commander. But even Cunningham wouldn't have been able to resolve this situation, had his French counterpart been Gensoul instead of Godfroy, I'd say. A lot of French and British sailors won in Alexandria thanks to their admirals.
There are recent discussions on the Italian Military Archives channel regarding the Battle off Calabria aka Punta Stilo. Highly recommended and well discussed and documented.
You mean the totally unsubstantiated claims about damage to HMS Warspite?
Not quite as credible as the lunatic Argentinian claims about the sinking of HMS Invincible in 1982, but probably more amusing.
Last time I was this early Ironclads we’re duking it out with cannons
Instead of a raid on Trafalgar Day we got one on Remembrance Day/Armistice Day
Thank you . I very much wish I had discovered your channel much earlier , especially for my now recently late father - an ex Naval Officer of WW2 . Again, thank you , from a new Subscriber.
Superb brief, I really enjoyed this, I was totally engrossed, so much so, I forgot my tea and toast at tea time. Thank you Drach, from a (very) old soldier.
I just decided to watch the two previous videos yesterday, this timing is impeccable
That must have been a sight to see.
"The fleet has arrived!"
*Hears bombs falling and exploding, airplane engines and watches tracers and searchlights arching everywhere*
*shock pikaku face*
Ah, my favorite kind of ham. Cunning and battle tested
Ah yes , we have a cunning ham.
I bet you cannot wait for the next episode then, as it should cover the period of the 3 Cs. Although one is a bit Conning compared to the others Cunning...
Bravo Drach, another really excellent production.
I cannot wait for episode 4!
Hi, I know you're probably quite busy with videos, but could you eventually cover the evolution of hull manufacturing methods? From ancient methods to medieval, to age of sail, to modern?
Been waiting patiently for this one
Been waiting for this and what an absolute treat it was !
Excellent - thank you!
love your work Drach
Very awesome video
Amazing story involving 2 brilliant men!
If it wasn't for your extensive accounts, I would be embarrassingly ignorant of half the maritime theaters of operations during WW2 in spite of growing up in a military family.
Fantastic! Been looking forward to this!
Cunningham doing his best in Alexandria really highlights what a shitshow Mers el Kabir had been.
Superb video and presentation Drach, thank you very much.
This was excellent. This is great historical presentation.
Love the admiral series Drach!
Great, something interesting to do at work! :D
Thank you Drach
Excellent
I’ve been waiting for this day
Looking forward to the next episode
Nice work sir, thanks. Some excellent photographs too.
Another terrific program. Very watcheable and so interesting.
They had 2 separate wars going on. The wars against Germany and Italy didn't actually become the same war until the Germans invaded Greece.
Perfect timing - I just finished rewatching the series yesterday :D
These are my favorites.
Brilliant thank you
An outstanding epoch! An outstanding letter to the Admiralty! thank you!
45.30 what a picture!
Thanks always holding us down with the top quality content. Guaranteed to be informative and entertaining.
It's a delight to hear history brought to life , part 4 soon please !
Thanks Drach.
I’m very much enjoying this series…
Thank You!
Cheers! From Southeast Texas!
Thanks Drach
ABC what a commander, what an inspiration. Thanks for the video!
This video straight up bussin
Got to say I'm loving the epic new intro music!
Thank you, Drachinifel.
I rarely watch UA-cam videos that are longer than 20 minutes but these are fascinating. Can't wait for the next one.
Really interesting, and much to admire about ADM Cunningham. I really enjoyed the photographs you selected…Not seen any of there before!
Superb picture of VV and Littorio @53.07
Damn man I tip my preverbal hat to you. This was a fine video the story of what happened at Alexandria during operation catapult at least for me was little known. It’s a event badly deserving much more attention at least to an international audience. As an American perhaps I’m unaware of British and commonwealth memory of it. I loved the videos on admirals King & Lee they’re some of my favorites of yours. This series on Cunningham is quickly taking its place amongst them. Hard to make any distinctions of true favorites tho tbh your work is so prolific, well researched & always delves into the human aspect when possible. Again hat’s off!
I knew about MEK (though not as completely as before this channel), and it is amazing to hear that Alexandria was almost literally the same situation. I'm just glad that cooler heads prevailed in this case, but the parallels are too many to ignore.
I see lots of talk about the handling of the French situation but not much about how amazing Cunningham's wife was. A true lady and one fit for an Admiral.
I do enjoy these little biography vids
What an admiral! Thank you for telling his story so well.
Excellent video, Drach. ABC reads more and more as the kind of superior officer - both by rank and capability - forced to fight not only the enemy but his own command structure as well to get things done in an effective way.
On the other hand. If only the Marine Nationale had had more Godfroys and less Gensouls, not to even mention that "Bête Noire" that was Darlan. A tantalizing what-if scenario.
Cheers.
You should do a video on the San Jose.
One major drawback of advancing is that your supply lines are lengthening while the enemy's are shortening - decreasing his supply problems. As Clausewitz pointed out in Vom Krieg, defense is the stronger form of warfare, but with a negative objective. Hence one of the US military's nine Principle of War is The Offense - which is the mirror image of defense. Only offensive action can be decisive
The same offensive strategy of Wwi. You're enemy has no need to attack,it only needs to hold. So you need to attack.
This intro is💥💥👌
Cunningham was an amazing man
Yes, if you don't want to answer a certain question then just file it in the fireplace & use the excuse that you must have been low on kindling that particular day.
However, answering such a question could actually be fun. Like "Um it may have escaped your notice but we are at war. And airplanes actually flying around to help protect peoples on the ground from enemies that are flying around is much more useful than said airplanes sitting around in a box. Does it really matter if it's the RAF using them instead of the Royal Navy? They were there & they were needed by our countrymen that is fighting the same enemies. It would have been carelessly ignorant to let these aircraft remain in boxes unused when there are pilots there capable of flying & defending their base.
Idk, maybe just burning the damn letter WAS best. It's not easy to educate the ignorant & fight a war at the same time! I mean who would believe that the Royal Navy & the RAF are both fighting to achieve the same goal?
When Malta was evacuated of all non essential personnel, my grandfather, grandmother and their daughter were evacuated to Alexandria. However their son, my dad, 14 years old at the time, was left behind because he was an indentured apprentice in the Dockyard. Throughout the siege of Malta he was largely on his own until in 1942, (after the siege was lifted) he was also moved to Alexandria. He was due out on a submarine but his place was taken by someone else. The submarine never arrived. The next time he was due on a plane, but again lost his place. The plane never arrived. 3rd time lucky for him. Some great stories of his time there and in Alexandria until 1945.
My fav autobiography…
I keep searching for the next episode 🥸🔍
Thanks, Drach, as always. The bunglings of us humans, in all our occupations ? It sometimes astounds me that we ever manage to achieve anything. Pyramids? There must've been some cock-ups in that show ! Somedays it's better not to get outta bed.
Great to see part 3 of the series on this outstanding naval commander. There were a few fine Admirals i WWII but I think Cunningham is my favorite. For some reason, however, i was under the impression that he was at Mers al Kabir as well???
No. The Admiral at Mers-el-Kebir was James F. Somerville.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Thanks. Not sure why i got confused over that. An unenviable job for sure
IIRC, the French ships were interned on the Great Bitter Lake, not Suez
Good theme music.
Good morning 🎉
Thinking about senior flag rank military leadership, while a number of senior wwii battlefield generals were incredible men, none seem to be more than 'solidly competent', possible exception for Zhukov.
Admirals are another story. While the best senior axis admirals might have been solidly competent, Britian and the United States seem to have both been blessed with multiple great admirals.
You're wrong there.
William Slim was an exceptionally gifted commander who executed a campaign that was a master class in strategic vision, logistical preparation and support, and speedy advance in Burma.
@@davidpnewtonhe was also a nonce
@@Emdiggydog no. Three people have *alleged* him to be so. That is a VERY different thing to it being proven.
The allegations were made 47 years after the alleged events and 37 years after Slim's death. It is literally impossible to prove whether they are true or not.
It is worthless making allegations that long after the events are supposed to have occurred. No proper investigation can be undertaken. They are merely an attempt to smear the reputation of the individual concerned.
The possibility of trauma of victims does have to be taken into account. However there are generally statutes of limitations in place for many offences for a good reason. I don't know exactly what the appropriate limit for reporting such allegation should be. Somewhere between five and 10 years I'd say. After that? Well the chance to report was had and not taken. Passage of time means that justice is impossible to achieve with any allegations. Essentially impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt and so essentially impossible to get a conviction.
As the cases of Field Marshall Lord Bramall and Leon Brittan show it is entirely possible for utterly false allegations to be made in this area. Don't always believe purported victims. Don't always believe vigorous denials. Approach each case on its own merits.
The merits of this case? They waited so long to say anything that it's utterly pointless. I don't know what the truth of what they said actually is. I do know that personally I disregard what they allege because of elapse of time.
The lesson? If you have allegations like this then make them either at the time or within a few years afterwards. Then a proper investigation can be undertaken and things decided properly with evidence.
Great series! As an aside, I much preferred the old theme music, but this is a minor complaint.
The nelson touch!
new music is actually even better, somehow
It was said that Andrew B Cunningham's middle initial did NOT stand for "Benevolent", but another word beginning with the letter B.
You mean 'Browne?'
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Not quite....
@@ROBERTN-ut2il Well, ABC thought his middle name was 'Browne.' His mother's maiden name.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Other people thought different
@@ROBERTN-ut2il Then they thought wrongly.