EXTREMELY educational video that should be required to be shown in high school classrooms. It could be the spark that drives students to pursue careers in chemistry, HVAC, or other related disciplines.
Learned freon is not just one chemical but rather it's a brand applied to multiple different chemicals over time. Interesting. Thanks for the quick history lesson
I'd say that's no longer the case. Even if freon was only a DuPont trademark in the beginning, it went on to be a generic term for the same group of chemicals regardless of who manufactured them. It's the same as with masonite and thermos.
I have Dupont "Freon labled" jugs of R12 and R11 and R22 and R134a t oo. So the trademark Freon was used on many products. It was on R21 cylinders in WW2 era. For some reason the web has folks preaching that R22 is the only Freon. OK use the same dumb mindset here too: Alabama is the only college football game. Indiana is the only basketball team The only smart phone is Apple. Ford is the only pickup truck maker. Lol
Big fishing boats used to get the fish in the hold then spray them down with R12 and then put some ice on them. Electric circuit boards being finished were rinsed in R12 to clean flux off. Wasn't really the public use that was the problem.
The pace of the presentation was perfect. The history part was short and the technical details were spot on. Too many Tubers drag things out way too long.
One video that i could watch for over an hour. Everyone should know the pluses and minuses of HVAC refrigerants in this world changing world of efficiency versus environment and safety.
Still using Propane & Butane with Ester Oil for all my personal stuff. Been using it since they decided to make R-12 more valuable than the equipment that it was being used in. So far NO problems, and I haven't managed to blow myself up, or even catch anything on fire. Sometimes it's good to be the Ginny Pig.
You’re very nice on your videos. I’ve been doing HVAC and refrigeration for around 32 years. I work at a power plant that’s my full-time job I like CO2. Yes you’re right it is kind of an annoying refrigerant. You have to have a vapor bottle in a liquid bottle but out of all of them in my opinion, it’s the safest it’s non-toxic nonexplosive, and non-flammable. It’s just finicky when the outside temperature gets up to 87°F then it becomes a trans critical system so I like your video you explain things well.
Well I was sure that you were not going to mention sulfur dioxide but you did !!! My 80 plus year old garage fridge has that in it and still runs like a top !!!!!
Yes, when it was first proposed the Refrigerants were destroying the ozone. Not only did a major refrigerant manufacturer, at University of Delaware, deny this, but they proved the Fluorine and Chlorine, in refrigerant is minimal compared to what is released into the upper atmosphere from Volcano activity.
I wouldn’t have so much of an issue with the the transitions if the new refrigerants were not patented and much more expensive. I perfect example is here in the states with R32 not being used vs in Europe. Too much lobby money kept r32 from being the new standard.
Im not a Tech but i do commercial property evaluations to identify needs and risks they have before people buy or sell. Mechanical is a huge part of it, ive run into abandoned gear from the 60’s occasionally. looking forward to the channel!
A fellow from Chemours did a presantation at ASHRAE NYC and said that the thermodynamic properties of sulfur dioxide were some of the best. But the risks were not so justifiable...
Interesting. I would not entertain that in a living space but perhaps with a separate/ventilated equipment house, a chill water system could be serviceable.
A few years ago the DuPont company that developed the Freons went out of business but not before disincorporating their business portfolio and forming a spin-off called Chemours that now owns the patents and production assets of the new hydro-fluoro-olefin substitute named Opteon.
Back in the 1970's my wife had an old aunt that wanted to take her small 40 or 50 year old refrigerator to her new house. Several moving companies refused to touch it because of the what they said had damgerous refrigerant. Trash men crushed it up during a normal trash day.
There's 4 or 5 Different droppings for R22. There should just be one and it should be used In all air conditioners Today R- 410 A Is a horrible refrigerant double the Pressures of R-22
@@vanderwerffchris maybe sad but true because it is used politically. Climate change, ozone depletion, global warming, when one term gets old change it to continue forcing citizens to live a certain way. Things are proven quite frequently that were thought to be true aren't so much. GWP is in that lane. EPA is not a branch of government while it acts as one.
Thanks for the history lesson. Although you're not being political about the topic, unfortunately, it's a political and money issue. I still enjoy the channel and various topics covered.
This statement makes too much sense. I think if you follow the dollar, the refrigerant producers don't want us to use natural gas or propane due to safety. But it is in many houses already!
@@ChrisMcLaughlin-l1vthere are different standards and regulations on infrastructure like that that arent on fridges and AC units. Id assume tolerances and machining and assembly are all better than when they were first discarded.
@@jhoughjr1 You are correct. I was trying to be clever, comparing the panic over propane refrigerant when infinite natural gas is simply piped into houses. (Keep in mind, that house explosions from natural gas hit the news now and again...) In any case, in another video on this channel, the presenter did point out a specific issue related to flammable refrigerants: if air is present in the refrigerant lines, and you get a mix of refrigerant and air in the compressor, then you can get compression ignition (as used in diesel engines). This is a specific issue for proper installation practice, not a reason to not use flammable refrigerants . -Jonathan
It seems like all modern refrigerants are a compromise and you need to use the correct tool for the correct job. My new car has r1234yf and I don have a problem with it within it's self. The the price and regulations around it is the issue.
yeah your r1234yf until you are in a wreck and the evaporator (probably made in china cracks open and a short in the wiring makes a spark and your legs are pinned in by the steering wheel BECAUSE THE FRIGGIN STUFF IS FLAMMABLE!
Love this, thank you. I really can’t wait for R-290 to become the standard. Yes it’s flammable but so is natural gas. If you have a propane leak, it has an end point so the danger is transient - no more than a barbecue tank in most homes. If you have a natural gas leak it can just build up forever.
Everything should be using propane and just use thicker copper with less connections to reduce leaks.. but we live in a throw-away world of planned obsolesc3nce, unfortunately
R717 /ammonia is sometimes more suitable in commercial systems. And co2 have a few applications where its suitablem But yeah, I think you are right regarding propane and r600 is suitable especially in smaller systems.
You can buy a propane fridge today ! Mostly made for RV’s ! I knew a couple 50 years ago, lived off grid, had propane fridge and stove and generator to run wringer clothes washer ! They had house built atop a river boat barge on the white river !
Hydrocarbons are better and work as drop-in replacements. Propane can replace R22 and a mix of about 60-70% propane and 30-40% isobutane can replace R12.
All of the refridgerants that we have used are far heavier than air. How on earth could they ever get up to the ozone layer? 90 percent of the refridgerants are used in the northern hemisphere, so why is the holle in the ozone layer twice as big at the south pole? Grade 9 physics we learned that when water vapor is subjected to UV light, it breaks down into ozone and hydrogen. How much water vapor is at the poles in winter? That is why the ozone holes get bigger in the winter and smaller in the summer!
Well, water vapor is lighter than air, yet dew forms on the grass. Oxygen is heavier than air, and yet people in Denver and above still breathe. The percentage of oxygen in the air remains extremely consistent with altitude. You aren't talking about ninth grade science. You are tossing out elementary hypotheses as though they were proven facts, which is basically the opposite of science at any grade.
@brianhaygood183 at 10,000 feet there is only 16 percent 02 ! Do forms when the air temperature drops and the relative humidity goes over 100 percent and the water becomes much heavier than air!
@@terenceiutzi4003 The percentage of Oxygen in the air remains the same with altitude. O2 molecules make up about 20% of the molecules in the air regardless of altitude. The fact there is less air present per unit volume (i.e. less air density) is beside the point of the discussion you raised. If molecular weight mattered, as you suggest, then there would be a lower percentage of heavier constituents in the air as you rose in altitude. That is not the case, so your suggestion is proven wrong. Dew forms when relative humidity reaches 100%. It is impossible for it to go over 100%. The water does not become heavier than air. It becomes more dense because it turns into liquid. The fact that there is water present in the air at low altitudes, enough that it can condense in large quantities regularly, tells you that the atmosphere is not sorted by molecular weight (i.e. mass) of its constituents. Again, your assertion that heavier molecules can't rise is refuted by the finding that lower weight molecules can sink. True that in stagnant air with zero temperature gradient, heavier molecules would tend to sink, but due to temp gradients and the vertical movement of air we see behind every weather event large and small, we can't model the atmosphere as a stagnant box full of undisturbed air. In fact, movement of the air is also why the Ozone layer problem was centered around the antarctic. The giant cold land mass there rsults in high level winds that act to keep some amount of very high altitude air in place by forming a rushing air curtain around it. So, it is pushed upward, and then stranded there so it can't spread laterally and disperse. That's another 1000 words worth of topic you can easily Google, so I'll let the rest of the internet take the discussion from there as to why the hole was down there instead of up here.
hi thanks you i learn alot in this video i am french but this chanell a amazing we dont have this in french thank you i think about go to work for havac world
R717, Ammonia is the best. Deadly but if the machinery is good there is no problem. Also the system does not use any copper, all steel, stainless steel and cast iron. If it does get out it doesn't harm the environment and is actually used by plants.
And we all know how possible it is to make things perfectly reliable all the time. The decision is all about how you make people die. Do you want to poison them in their homes with ammonia, give them cancer with UV radiation, burn them with exploding refrigerators or flood them with rising sea levels? I know I'm dripping with sarcasm here, but my point is that I don't agree with the choice our government is forcing us to make.
And we all know how possible it is to make something that works 100% of the time with absolutely no failures ever. Would you bet your life on that NEVER leaking? I wouldn't.
@@theclearsounds3911 people did before. Refrigerators had Ammonia in them years ago. I've never had a refrigerator leak. They only leak if intentionaly broken.
@@Hydrogenblonde I've had 2 refrigerators fail when all the freon leaked out; one while moving it and one just happened with no apparent cause. If you look up "exploding refrigerators", you will find legitimate news stories about newer refrigerators with flammable refrigerant exploding when the refrigerant leaks out and is somehow ignited. That's why CFC's replaced ammonia in consumer-grade refrigerators; they're not flammable nor are they highly toxic.
@@theclearsounds3911 I will agree the quality of modern goods is absolutely crap. Everything is made on the cheap with inferior materials and to a very poor standard. The manufacturers would have to get their act together and stop building throwaway trash. The El cheapo throwaway mentality is the thing destroying our environment. Yes, to use Ammonia the machine MUST be strongly built.
Yes good advice ! .... The Flourocarbons were non flammable , but damaged the Ozone layer ...... Pentane is now used .... but as we saw in the UK : ( Grenfell Tower , West London ) this same Pentane started ( a towering inferno ) as you may have seen on the news , worldwide ............... DAVE™🛑
r12 was the og, it has better volumetric efficiency and thus higher COP at much lower head pressures. low head pressures means very long life of the compressor, and high COP means less emissions due to energy savings. also non flamable. banning it all out was kind of a mistake imo. the ozone layer has already recovered much faster than they said it would.
If R12 and R22 are heavier than atmospheric, please explain how it can get up to the ozone layer. How about explaining about a a high proton coronal mass ejection from the sun being the reason for ozone depletion.
Both should be back. R12 was the best refrigerant ever and leaded gas was far less hazardous than your lying government sponsored experts said. Jut another way to control and fleece the public.
The refrigerant become "dangerous" to the environment when dupont's patent expires and anyone can make and sell it. Then they come up with a new safer version until that patent runs out. It's about money not the environment.
Except we live in the real world where cars end up in accidents and far too often scrap yards that don't recover. Houses might be subject to fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, intoxicated drivers driving through living rooms etc. Even in large buildings, people make mistakes and puncture lines however. The biggest problem of them all? OEM's making crap coils.
Fmr. Carrier regional Manager, here. Great presenter, but Tragic content little correlation between old/new products. and noo DC refrigerants included.
You are a former regional manager! Super impressed! Sorry for the bad content! Drop a link to your former regional manager content so we can all subscribe!
Current 15 year tech, here. First off the video topic is the history of refrigerants not comparing and contrasting refrigerants. Second, I don’t blame you. The carrier blood runs deep and you were disappointed he didn’t over engineer the video like Carrier over engineers their systems😂
They don't go up into the ozone layer as CFC's. Sunlight breaks up the CFC's into lighter gasses that go into the ozone layer. Look at this cartoon-like drawing, and it explains the process. 3:46 I had to pause on it for a few minutes, as it contains a lot of information.
@@theclearsounds3911 we must remember that CFCs are commonly occurring the stuff id belched from Volcanoes Hay OZONE only stays for a few weeks and breaks down with out CFCs the point you are making is pointless the BIG point it is about the Money prove me wrong look it up
OK. I own a 2001 air conditioner at my 1959 home, and a 2014 AC in my Porsche Cayman S, and a 2001 AC system in my 2001 Subaru Outback LL Bean. I think the house is R410, and the cars are R134A; What is going to happen?
You should convert the car AC to R12a. I got it from Frostycool and it's supposed to be colder and more efficient than even R12. I use it in a car that came with R134a and it went from barely doing anything to being so cold that I have to turn it off after a while. Converting an R410a system to propane is called the Davuluri treatment on an HVAC forum. I haven't tried it and I think it might require you to change the expansion device so you could buy a used R22 central AC system and fill it with propane.
@@mangjitnijjhar1390 The propane thing was a joke; The use of this extremely flammable combination of gases is very dangerous. Even if it is very effective.
For anyone who is confused, global warming and climate change are not political issues. They are human issues that affects us all whether you want to believe it or not.
Overpopulation has consequences! Losing the ability to use good refrigerants like R12 is one of the negative consequences. 7 billion humans need a LOT of R12 for their refrigerators and air conditioners!
Does anyone else think it's odd that while the ozone layer got better counties in Asia increased CFC use? Still after all these years with more CFCs use in China than ever the Ozone is just fine.
@@cardboardboxification That may be somewhat true but NASA has detected CFCs HCFCs and other "Ozone-Depleting Substances" in the stratosphere. However, I recently looked into the total amount of Ozone Depletion Potential for all measured chemicals every year available and compared it to the size of the ozone. The last 21 years have almost no correlation even if there was a delayed effect. Based on this, none of the changes in the last 21 years has had any effect on the Ozone.
'the ozone is just fine' - it'll take until around 2100 to get back to pre-industrial ozone levels, mainly due to developing countries adopting CFCs and delaying recovery by decades. And what they don't do in Asia but what the USA used to do is having CFC in literal spray cans for hair spray, paint etc, so the use case is much more narrow now
@@Netherlands031 I think you missed my point. The data from NASA and the EPA shows that some other prosses not related to these substances effect the ozone much more than these substances. It started off because I didn't see anyone talking about ozone recently as a major issue even though we have more "ozone depleting chemicals" in the air.
@@FROG2000I think you missed _their_ point: the ozone layer is _not_ "just fine". Your assessment of how it was damaged and what's necessary to address the problem is faulty.
@Netherlands031 The people that have the most to gain from people being fearful of refrigeration are the owners of garbage dumps. And so big-garbage started a smear campaign to demonize big-refrigeration. Or it could be something else
Are you standing by the American corporations that patent, market, and produce these conpounds? the same corporations forcibly dictate which refrigerant must be used by consumers and equipment manufacturers though several US government agencies and businesses? or are you talking about the global scientists, that have no affiliation with these corporations to campaign against them to ban harmful products?
Interesting stuff! Thanks, Bryan.
Nice information
EXTREMELY educational video that should be required to be shown in high school classrooms. It could be the spark that drives students to pursue careers in chemistry, HVAC, or other related disciplines.
Learned freon is not just one chemical but rather it's a brand applied to multiple different chemicals over time. Interesting. Thanks for the quick history lesson
I'd say that's no longer the case. Even if freon was only a DuPont trademark in the beginning, it went on to be a generic term for the same group of chemicals regardless of who manufactured them. It's the same as with masonite and thermos.
I have Dupont "Freon labled" jugs of R12 and R11 and R22 and R134a t oo. So the trademark Freon was used on many products. It was on R21 cylinders in WW2 era.
For some reason the web has folks preaching that R22 is the only Freon.
OK use the same dumb mindset here too:
Alabama is the only college football game. Indiana is the only basketball team
The only smart phone is Apple.
Ford is the only pickup truck maker.
Lol
Big fishing boats used to get the fish in the hold then spray them down with R12 and then put some ice on them. Electric circuit boards being finished were rinsed in R12 to clean flux off. Wasn't really the public use that was the problem.
Pretty much everything bad gets blamed on those not doing it enough to matter.
Isopropanol works fine
Think that was Freon TF and TE used for cleaning electronics.
The pace of the presentation was perfect. The history part was short and the technical details were spot on. Too many Tubers drag things out way too long.
One video that i could watch for over an hour. Everyone should know the pluses and minuses of HVAC refrigerants in this world changing world of efficiency versus environment and safety.
Which refrigerant do you use in RUSSIA where you live Sergei?
EXCELLENT informative seven minute summary of refrigerant options!
Still using Propane & Butane with Ester Oil for all my personal stuff. Been using it since they decided to make R-12 more valuable than the equipment that it was being used in. So far NO problems, and I haven't managed to blow myself up, or even catch anything on fire. Sometimes it's good to be the Ginny Pig.
Don't many commercial setups use that?
Good to hear, isn't that mainly a matter of pulling a good vacuum before filling the system? In other words, no oxygen?
@@Gersberms that must be done no matter what refrigerant is used.
I use to distill R290 propane from refrigerated LPG.
It is spelled "Guinea Pig" Leonid Sergeivich. How's the weather in RUSSIA?
I remember buying r-12 at the grocery store for 89 cents a can. Those were the days. Thanks for the video.
I bought it at Kmart and the auto parts for the same price.
Mr. Orr I hope you know how impactful you are man. Thank you a ton for all that you contribute to this industry
Learned years ago that r12 could turn into phosgene gas if exposed to red hot metal or an open flame
You’re very nice on your videos. I’ve been doing HVAC and refrigeration for around 32 years. I work at a power plant that’s my full-time job I like CO2. Yes you’re right it is kind of an annoying refrigerant. You have to have a vapor bottle in a liquid bottle but out of all of them in my opinion, it’s the safest it’s non-toxic nonexplosive, and non-flammable. It’s just finicky when the outside temperature gets up to 87°F then it becomes a trans critical system so I like your video you explain things well.
Well I was sure that you were not going to mention sulfur dioxide but you did !!! My 80 plus year old garage fridge has that in it and still runs like a top !!!!!
A friend and HVAC guy had a globe top working well in his garage/shop painted like the Schlitz globe.
As a new tech and still learning about new refrigerants this was very helpful...thanks Bryan 🤝
its all aboutr trademarks and patents expiring.....aka money
Yes, when it was first proposed the Refrigerants were destroying the ozone. Not only did a major refrigerant manufacturer, at University of Delaware, deny this, but they proved the Fluorine and Chlorine, in refrigerant is minimal compared to what is released into the upper atmosphere from Volcano activity.
@@stevenmoomey2115 YES but there is no money in it
I wouldn’t have so much of an issue with the the transitions if the new refrigerants were not patented and much more expensive.
I perfect example is here in the states with R32 not being used vs in Europe. Too much lobby money kept r32 from being the new standard.
Great video! But where does the new automotive refrigerant, R1234, fit into this? Thanks!
Im not a Tech but i do commercial property evaluations to identify needs and risks they have before people buy or sell. Mechanical is a huge part of it, ive run into abandoned gear from the 60’s occasionally. looking forward to the channel!
Thanks. I learned a little, with regards to R12 etc
A fellow from Chemours did a presantation at ASHRAE NYC and said that the thermodynamic properties of sulfur dioxide were some of the best. But the risks were not so justifiable...
Interesting. I would not entertain that in a living space but perhaps with a separate/ventilated equipment house, a chill water system could be serviceable.
Id think we have better materials and precision than when it was discarded.
Sick of the government making refrigerant useless. Freon forever
A few years ago the DuPont company that developed the Freons went out of business but not before disincorporating their business portfolio and forming a spin-off called Chemours that now owns the patents and production assets of the new hydro-fluoro-olefin substitute named Opteon.
Back in the 1970's my wife had an old aunt that wanted to take her small 40 or 50 year old refrigerator to her new house. Several moving companies refused to touch it because of the what they said had damgerous refrigerant. Trash men crushed it up during a normal trash day.
Well yeah if its in a dumpster.
The cfc and hcfc were never harming the ozone. It did get systems changed at a huge price. Still going on .
There's 4 or 5 Different droppings for R22. There should just be one and it should be used In all air conditioners Today R- 410 A Is a horrible refrigerant double the Pressures of R-22
6:49 wasn't nerdy enough
Very informative!
Not bad for Fiction the Story leading to some False point
that is not necessarily True
do you know that OZONE in naturally occurring all the time
Very nicely presented. Your videos are always interesting and educational. Thank you Bryan.
Jeez you know things are brutal when you have to preface a presentation on the factual gwp with “this is not political”
Great video btw
@@vanderwerffchris maybe sad but true because it is used politically. Climate change, ozone depletion, global warming, when one term gets old change it to continue forcing citizens to live a certain way. Things are proven quite frequently that were thought to be true aren't so much. GWP is in that lane. EPA is not a branch of government while it acts as one.
YT dont like the truth being given out freely and unregulated.
Thanks for the history lesson. Although you're not being political about the topic, unfortunately, it's a political and money issue. I still enjoy the channel and various topics covered.
You should do a video on how those old refrigerators that use propane work.
Magic
They are absorption cooling systems which use heat from burning propane as an energy source
Most, if not all, RV refrigerators are run on ammonia that is heated by a propane flame.
Thanks for the info.
Ya know ah to be volatile it just needs to have a low boiling temp to be considered volatile. It dont gotta splode
The SDS sheet on these A2L refridgerants says they are highly flammable.
Kind of astounding that we don't think we can safely use R-290 when impure R-50 is piped into houses all the time...
This statement makes too much sense. I think if you follow the dollar, the refrigerant producers don't want us to use natural gas or propane due to safety. But it is in many houses already!
Why the R jargon and not just the substance? Im assuming its natural gas you refer to
@@ChrisMcLaughlin-l1vthere are different standards and regulations on infrastructure like that that arent on fridges and AC units.
Id assume tolerances and machining and assembly are all better than when they were first discarded.
@@jhoughjr1 You are correct. I was trying to be clever, comparing the panic over propane refrigerant when infinite natural gas is simply piped into houses.
(Keep in mind, that house explosions from natural gas hit the news now and again...)
In any case, in another video on this channel, the presenter did point out a specific issue related to flammable refrigerants: if air is present in the refrigerant lines, and you get a mix of refrigerant and air in the compressor, then you can get compression ignition (as used in diesel engines).
This is a specific issue for proper installation practice, not a reason to not use flammable refrigerants .
-Jonathan
Excellent video
Never too nerdy for us! 🤓
Great info.
But r32 is just r410 with the flame retardent removed.
It seems like all modern refrigerants are a compromise and you need to use the correct tool for the correct job. My new car has r1234yf and I don have a problem with it within it's self. The the price and regulations around it is the issue.
yeah your r1234yf until you are in a wreck and the evaporator (probably made in china cracks open and a short in the wiring makes a spark and your legs are pinned in by the steering wheel BECAUSE THE FRIGGIN STUFF IS FLAMMABLE!
Thats all engineering really
Refrigeration and the refrigerants used .. how the system scale in size and what now really cool
Very informative .
not bad for a fiction he is only doing what he has seen in a book of misinformation
if you tell a lie too many times dose not make it True
Love this, thank you. I really can’t wait for R-290 to become the standard. Yes it’s flammable but so is natural gas. If you have a propane leak, it has an end point so the danger is transient - no more than a barbecue tank in most homes. If you have a natural gas leak it can just build up forever.
Everything should be using propane and just use thicker copper with less connections to reduce leaks.. but we live in a throw-away world of planned obsolesc3nce, unfortunately
Thinker copper would help with your planned obsolescence thought unfortunately.
R717 /ammonia is sometimes more suitable in commercial systems. And co2 have a few applications where its suitablem But yeah, I think you are right regarding propane and r600 is suitable especially in smaller systems.
I completely agree. I'd only use r290 if i could.
Could leaks be caused by a bad vacuum on install and then over years make the leak?
You can buy a propane fridge today ! Mostly made for RV’s ! I knew a couple 50 years ago, lived off grid, had propane fridge and stove and generator to run wringer clothes washer ! They had house built atop a river boat barge on the white river !
bring back 12/22
yes, carry 3 bottles 12 , 22, 502 $30 each $90, now you carry 6 different bottles for $2,000
now a whole bunch of new refrigerants because each equipment manufacturer is using something diffrent@@cardboardboxification
Hydrocarbons are better and work as drop-in replacements. Propane can replace R22 and a mix of about 60-70% propane and 30-40% isobutane can replace R12.
All of the refridgerants that we have used are far heavier than air. How on earth could they ever get up to the ozone layer? 90 percent of the refridgerants are used in the northern hemisphere, so why is the holle in the ozone layer twice as big at the south pole? Grade 9 physics we learned that when water vapor is subjected to UV light, it breaks down into ozone and hydrogen. How much water vapor is at the poles in winter? That is why the ozone holes get bigger in the winter and smaller in the summer!
Well, water vapor is lighter than air, yet dew forms on the grass. Oxygen is heavier than air, and yet people in Denver and above still breathe. The percentage of oxygen in the air remains extremely consistent with altitude. You aren't talking about ninth grade science. You are tossing out elementary hypotheses as though they were proven facts, which is basically the opposite of science at any grade.
@brianhaygood183 at 10,000 feet there is only 16 percent 02 ! Do forms when the air temperature drops and the relative humidity goes over 100 percent and the water becomes much heavier than air!
@@terenceiutzi4003 The percentage of Oxygen in the air remains the same with altitude. O2 molecules make up about 20% of the molecules in the air regardless of altitude. The fact there is less air present per unit volume (i.e. less air density) is beside the point of the discussion you raised. If molecular weight mattered, as you suggest, then there would be a lower percentage of heavier constituents in the air as you rose in altitude. That is not the case, so your suggestion is proven wrong.
Dew forms when relative humidity reaches 100%. It is impossible for it to go over 100%. The water does not become heavier than air. It becomes more dense because it turns into liquid. The fact that there is water present in the air at low altitudes, enough that it can condense in large quantities regularly, tells you that the atmosphere is not sorted by molecular weight (i.e. mass) of its constituents. Again, your assertion that heavier molecules can't rise is refuted by the finding that lower weight molecules can sink. True that in stagnant air with zero temperature gradient, heavier molecules would tend to sink, but due to temp gradients and the vertical movement of air we see behind every weather event large and small, we can't model the atmosphere as a stagnant box full of undisturbed air.
In fact, movement of the air is also why the Ozone layer problem was centered around the antarctic. The giant cold land mass there rsults in high level winds that act to keep some amount of very high altitude air in place by forming a rushing air curtain around it. So, it is pushed upward, and then stranded there so it can't spread laterally and disperse. That's another 1000 words worth of topic you can easily Google, so I'll let the rest of the internet take the discussion from there as to why the hole was down there instead of up here.
Thank you for all that you do to educate and inforrm us. Raphael nyc
hi thanks you i learn alot in this video i am french but this chanell a amazing we dont have this in french thank you i think about go to work for havac world
Willis Carrier ?
Waiting for part 2
Clarence Birdseye?
@@ChrisMcLaughlin-l1vOh, peas don't get me started.
R601a (isobutane)=R11
RC270(cyclopropane)=R12
R290(propane)=R22
R1270(propylene)=R502
Isobutane is R600a.
Loved it.
R500 was for residential use , Carrier/Bryant . Pressure resembled R12
Cool video Bryan
IMO R290 is about the best you can get. It's fairly safe. It's plentiful. Doesn't harm the environment. Works a bit better than R22.
Great video
R717, Ammonia is the best. Deadly but if the machinery is good there is no problem. Also the system does not use any copper, all steel, stainless steel and cast iron.
If it does get out it doesn't harm the environment and is actually used by plants.
And we all know how possible it is to make things perfectly reliable all the time. The decision is all about how you make people die. Do you want to poison them in their homes with ammonia, give them cancer with UV radiation, burn them with exploding refrigerators or flood them with rising sea levels? I know I'm dripping with sarcasm here, but my point is that I don't agree with the choice our government is forcing us to make.
And we all know how possible it is to make something that works 100% of the time with absolutely no failures ever. Would you bet your life on that NEVER leaking? I wouldn't.
@@theclearsounds3911 people did before. Refrigerators had Ammonia in them years ago.
I've never had a refrigerator leak. They only leak if intentionaly broken.
@@Hydrogenblonde I've had 2 refrigerators fail when all the freon leaked out; one while moving it and one just happened with no apparent cause. If you look up "exploding refrigerators", you will find legitimate news stories about newer refrigerators with flammable refrigerant exploding when the refrigerant leaks out and is somehow ignited. That's why CFC's replaced ammonia in consumer-grade refrigerators; they're not flammable nor are they highly toxic.
@@theclearsounds3911 I will agree the quality of modern goods is absolutely crap. Everything is made on the cheap with inferior materials and to a very poor standard.
The manufacturers would have to get their act together and stop building throwaway trash.
The El cheapo throwaway mentality is the thing destroying our environment.
Yes, to use Ammonia the machine MUST be strongly built.
Yes good advice ! .... The Flourocarbons were non flammable , but damaged the Ozone layer ...... Pentane is now used .... but as we saw in the UK : ( Grenfell Tower , West London ) this same Pentane started ( a towering inferno ) as you may have seen on the news , worldwide ............... DAVE™🛑
A refrigerant you don't mention is sulfur dioxide. This was used in common household refrigerators in the 1960's.
Was waiting for that as well
2:19
Dude, he mentions it twice In this video.
Fantastic
Navy has also been working on backup systems to GPS satellites going down/GPS jamming that AEGIS relies on.
Refrigerants used to be used as weapons
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say weapons were used as refrigerant? Haha
@@ElPants21"Not a flame thrower". Ha.
Still can be lol just not in geneva
r12 was the og, it has better volumetric efficiency and thus higher COP at much lower head pressures. low head pressures means very long life of the compressor, and high COP means less emissions due to energy savings. also non flamable. banning it all out was kind of a mistake imo. the ozone layer has already recovered much faster than they said it would.
Fabulous
What about methyl bromate ?
Nice video, thanks Brian! (Don’t listen to the haters, you have nice facial hair)
Ammonia is the worse. Subsequently they are looking at ammonia as a fuel source for Internal Combustion engines. Promising results too.
Dont really want oxides of nitrogen getting shat out everywhere though. That will form nitric acid in the water vapor in the air.
R12 the best!!!!
Fan of Thomas Midgley Jr?
I cleaned a lot of condenser coils with that stuff. That was before the hoax took hold.
@@angelof9431 If ozone hole deniers were banned from buying or using sunscreen would you have the same thought?
@@soundspark Did you actually type that for the whole world to read?
@@angelof9431 You called the ozone hole a hoax.
If R12 and R22 are heavier than atmospheric, please explain how it can get up to the ozone layer. How about explaining about a a high proton coronal mass ejection from the sun being the reason for ozone depletion.
Thank you Mr Midgely ! You gave us r-12 and Ethyl gasoline ! Genius !
Both should be back. R12 was the best refrigerant ever and leaded gas was far less hazardous than your lying government sponsored experts said. Jut another way to control and fleece the public.
@@DEW409dumbest thing ive seen all year.
The refrigerant become "dangerous" to the environment when dupont's patent expires and anyone can make and sell it. Then they come up with a new safer version until that patent runs out. It's about money not the environment.
You apparently dont know much as dupont doesnt have control of most refidgerants
IF INSTALLED & LEAK TESTED CORRECTLY. R12- R-22 IS STILL THE BEST CHOICE! BC FREON ISN'T SUPPOSED TO LEAK!
How's the weather in RUSSIA where you live Yevgeny?
@@Flies2FLL How's the ignorantly irrelevant posting going for you?
@@Flies2FLL How's CHINA, BOY?
@@user-xk5so7wb2t Haven't been there since 2006. Now, is it snowing Ukrainian drones at your house in Russia this afternoon?
Except we live in the real world where cars end up in accidents and far too often scrap yards that don't recover. Houses might be subject to fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, intoxicated drivers driving through living rooms etc. Even in large buildings, people make mistakes and puncture lines however. The biggest problem of them all? OEM's making crap coils.
I’d give ANYTHING to be as smart as Bryan. I’m an HVAC tech….but not like him. Awesome information sir.
Keep studying. The more you expose urself to the more u remember.
Can you comment on R12 being better (colder)than the newer types.
Is guess it has to do with the pressures it evaporates and condenses at.
Butane, Isobutane, Propane '/
Fmr. Carrier regional Manager, here. Great presenter, but Tragic content little correlation between old/new products. and noo DC refrigerants included.
You are a former regional manager! Super impressed! Sorry for the bad content! Drop a link to your former regional manager content so we can all subscribe!
@@HVACSlmao ZING!!
@@HVACSlmaoZING!!!
Current 15 year tech, here. First off the video topic is the history of refrigerants not comparing and contrasting refrigerants. Second, I don’t blame you. The carrier blood runs deep and you were disappointed he didn’t over engineer the video like Carrier over engineers their systems😂
I was hoping for more nerdy... ;)
R-12, R-22, R-410A, R-134A are much heavier than air. How do they get up into the ozone to damage it?🤔
The EPA refrigeratant exam test books say that too. Then in another section they say they float up to the upper atmosphere and destroy the planet.
They don't go up into the ozone layer as CFC's. Sunlight breaks up the CFC's into lighter gasses that go into the ozone layer. Look at this cartoon-like drawing, and it explains the process. 3:46 I had to pause on it for a few minutes, as it contains a lot of information.
@@theclearsounds3911 we must remember that CFCs are commonly occurring the stuff id belched from Volcanoes Hay OZONE only stays for a few weeks and breaks down with out CFCs the point you are making is pointless the BIG point it is about the Money prove me wrong look it up
Bryan..what the plan?
Slip or fall?
Call Saul
OK. I own a 2001 air conditioner at my 1959 home, and a 2014 AC in my Porsche Cayman S, and a 2001 AC system in my 2001 Subaru Outback LL Bean. I think the house is R410, and the cars are R134A; What is going to happen?
Eventually the 134A will be like r12 and get harder to find, and more expensive. The 410a probably won't be an issue anytime soon I'd bet.
@@puzzleluvr Or you could just use propane.....
You should convert the car AC to R12a. I got it from Frostycool and it's supposed to be colder and more efficient than even R12. I use it in a car that came with R134a and it went from barely doing anything to being so cold that I have to turn it off after a while. Converting an R410a system to propane is called the Davuluri treatment on an HVAC forum. I haven't tried it and I think it might require you to change the expansion device so you could buy a used R22 central AC system and fill it with propane.
@@mangjitnijjhar1390 The propane thing was a joke; The use of this extremely flammable combination of gases is very dangerous. Even if it is very effective.
My new AC says it uses flammable refrigerant and that there's a risk of fire or explosion
458a is not a drop in alternative to R22. Don't ask how I know.😂
DYIers say freon professionals say refrigerant.
save the planet just politics
Screw the planet
For anyone who is confused, global warming and climate change are not political issues. They are human issues that affects us all whether you want to believe it or not.
More nerdy!!!! lol
Sorry, I mean "more nerdy please!!!" ... embrace the nerd!
Overpopulation has consequences! Losing the ability to use good refrigerants like R12 is one of the negative consequences. 7 billion humans need a LOT of R12 for their refrigerators and air conditioners!
Theres a LOT of people that think the know chemistry and physics here that aure af have no clue.
Does anyone else think it's odd that while the ozone layer got better counties in Asia increased CFC use? Still after all these years with more CFCs use in China than ever the Ozone is just fine.
cfc are heavy then air, mixes like oil and water
@@cardboardboxification That may be somewhat true but NASA has detected CFCs HCFCs and other "Ozone-Depleting Substances" in the stratosphere. However, I recently looked into the total amount of Ozone Depletion Potential for all measured chemicals every year available and compared it to the size of the ozone. The last 21 years have almost no correlation even if there was a delayed effect. Based on this, none of the changes in the last 21 years has had any effect on the Ozone.
'the ozone is just fine' - it'll take until around 2100 to get back to pre-industrial ozone levels, mainly due to developing countries adopting CFCs and delaying recovery by decades. And what they don't do in Asia but what the USA used to do is having CFC in literal spray cans for hair spray, paint etc, so the use case is much more narrow now
@@Netherlands031 I think you missed my point. The data from NASA and the EPA shows that some other prosses not related to these substances effect the ozone much more than these substances. It started off because I didn't see anyone talking about ozone recently as a major issue even though we have more "ozone depleting chemicals" in the air.
@@FROG2000I think you missed _their_ point: the ozone layer is _not_ "just fine". Your assessment of how it was damaged and what's necessary to address the problem is faulty.
r410a is just a mix of r32+r125... not sure why they even need to switch. The planet is screwed anyways.
You really need a bigger microphone!
Iron is flammable... Think about that when you use your case iron skillet 😂
Excellent video, but I think you are pronouncing ethyl wrong.
Ah yes as soon as the patent runs out: THIS SHIT IS DANGEROUS AND BAD FOR THE ENVIORMENT!!
It was made in the 30s. CFCs werent phased out till the 80s. Patents dont last 50 years.
Preasurized flammables is never a good thing
How about Oliver Evans? You left him out of the history.
Mars has climate change too but there are no air-conditioned gas-guzzling SUVs on Mars to blame it on.
Would you like to live on mars?
the Mansions for sure THEY DON'T NEED CARS just leaky AC systems
"Different places are different!" You really thought you were making a point didn't you?
Laissez-faire
The campaign to manipulate Americans into believing that refrigerants are harmful to the ozone layer is the most chilling.
wait you think it's a complot? How would that make sense?
@Netherlands031 The people that have the most to gain from people being fearful of refrigeration are the owners of garbage dumps.
And so big-garbage started a smear campaign to demonize big-refrigeration.
Or it could be something else
Are you standing by the American corporations that patent, market, and produce these conpounds? the same corporations forcibly dictate which refrigerant must be used by consumers and equipment manufacturers though several US government agencies and businesses?
or are you talking about the global scientists, that have no affiliation with these corporations to campaign against them to ban harmful products?
The campaign was so good it was effective on the entire world's scientific community! That makes sense...
@@ExitSignAficionadomost of these have no fucking oatent.
You damn liberal Bryan lol
what ever happened to that hole in the ozone ? oh yeah it just magically vanished ...
It has shranl since phasing out CFCs