Why Armored Trains?
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Armored Trains saw most of their action in the 19th and 20th century particularly in the First and Second World War. Yet, the question is, why used armored trains in the first place? For this we look at the strengths and weaknesses of armored trains. Furthermore, we also cover their requirements and missions.
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» SOURCES «
Zaloga, Steven: Armored Trains. Osprey Publishing: Oxford, UK, 2008.
Sawodny, Wolfgang: Die Panzerzüge des Deutschen Reiches 1904-1945. EK-Verlag: Freiburg, Germany, 1996.
Hauptner, Rudolf; Jung, Peter: Stahl und Eisen im Feuer : Panzerzüge und Panzerautos des k.u.k.-Heeres 1914 - 1918.
Malmassari, Paul: Armoured Trains. An Illustrated Encyclopedia 1825-2016. Seaforth Publishing: South Yorkshire, UK, 2016.
BArch, RH 1/1217: OKH: H.Dv. 130/20: Führung des Grenadier-Regiments. Verlage „Offene Worte“, Berlin, Germany, 21. März 1945.
Ask Historians: What is the Point of Armored Trains
/ what_is_the_point_of_a...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handcar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman...
Kreidler, Eugen: Die Eisenbahnen im Zweiten Weltkrieg. Studien und Dokumente zur Geschichte des Zweiten Weltrkrieges. Nikol Verlagsgesellschaft: Hamburg, Germany, 2001 (1974?).
Gottwaldt, Alfred B.: Heeresbahnen im Zweiten Weltkrieg 1939 bis 1945. Transpress Verlag: Stuttgart, Germany, 2018.
#ArmoredTrains #WhyArmoredTrains #ArmoredTrainsWW2
We have armored trains so that we can have Thomas the (quite literal) Tank Engine
How about a FlaK 88 on a train?
CtrlAlt Debug random Russia soilder went with a blow torch,a hammer, and sickle went to attack the track while drunk on Volka
Thomas der Panzermotor! 😆
@@ctrlaltdebug ; How about two on one train car?
There is a meme floating around of Thomas the tank engine meeting Gustav the railway gun.
Everybody always ask ‘Why Armored Trains?’
Nobody ever asks ‘How Armored Trains?’
"Whose Armed Trains?"
@@danbrown5736 How armored Trains?
Probably because the question is grammatically incoherent.
@@danbrown5736 Ours, of course!
@@1337fraggzb00N Don´t try to derail the discussion.....
I think armored trains are a tragically underused movie device.
There was an Armoured Train in the Rhineland Level of Medal of Honor: Airborne and it made an entry that made child-me shit myself.
Doktor Zhivago has one. ( 1:50 onwards )
ua-cam.com/video/l7eEDlgKcn4/v-deo.html
@@MrARCN7 And yet nowadays, when an Armoured train spawns in BF1, everyone races to kill it......
I agree. Trains where a big part of ww1 and 2
There was one in the WWII movie The Train, starting Burt Lancaster.
Why armored trains?
One barely needs to be a four year old boy, having seen a locomotive and a big gun, to get a great idea!
SAID THE PERSON WHO NEVER BEEN COMBAT? BRING THE TRAINS WASTE YOUR RESOURCES KILL IT FIVE MILES OUT OF ANY STATION IT LEAVES?? WITH THE FORCES OF ONE INFANTRY BATTALION TOO. THE IDEA OF AN ARMORED TRAIN WAS GREAT!!! IN 1938 BUT ANY TIE AFTER THAT DATE, MOST SUPPLIED INFANTRY COMPANY ALONE CAN KILL ANY ARMORED TRAIN AT DISTANCE, PERIOD. LIKE PUTTING ALL YOUR TANKS IN A LINE ON A OPEN FIELD WERE M.G. GROUPS MAKE THEM CLOSE UP THEN THE A.T.W. SQUADS EAT THEM ALIVE!!, PERIOD. IF YOU GET TO CHOOSE WERE TO STRIKE AN ENEMY?? ANY RAILS GOING INTO THE AREA HAVE TO BE BLOWN UP ONE HOUR OR LESS BEFORE THE BATTLE. TRAINS ANY TRAINS SHIT!! A HANDFUL OF PENNIES CAN STOP A TRAIN??
@@brucesweatman2146 wow! Did someone piss you off or something? I mean, the guy was making a lighthearted comment and you come back with a poorly worded rant.
@starshipeleven show you never were in battle hide see it go by a point, blow the track behind it and in front. then standoff weapons asswipe like dragon tow and laws and Javier as well five shots at a range of 300 meters and the train is dead or just drop w/p morteor round all on it. Like I said your typing show you never served or kill anything ....kid.You just show to everyone who served your a real dumb ass, kid. lmao!!!
@starshipeleven ím pretty sure the US or NATO doesn't use armored trains in Iraq or Afghanistan is because they'll have to first build the railroads for the trains, which will be destroyed y the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Convoys in Afghanistan are safer since they don't always travel through the mountainous terrain, something that the train would have to do.
@@brucesweatman2146 it's funny how people like you constantly try to prove your crappy points. You most likely play too much battlefield if you think explosives would always be available by every enemy trooper 😂.
Other people: Armoured Trains
Me and my mind: Trainks
Tronks
Trunks
tainks
Thanks
"I have not found particular data here, but it seems that..."
Who are you, and what did you do with the real Bernhard!?
Oh shit, something's going on!
'I was special forces during the war'.
'Wow! SAS, Spetzsnatz'?
'No, Choo Choo boys, Thomas The Tank Engine Division'.
"The CCB took heavy losses, but Thomas stood strong. We had seen enough."
The Russians didnt really stop using armoured trains in combat, The Baikal and The Amur were counter-insurgency armoured trains used in Georgia and Chechnya and in 2016 they were brought back into service after a 15 year gap.
'Counter insurgency armoured trains' is a phrase I never expected to hear.
"Counter Insurgency Armoured Trains" what, so now Train have type and classes too?!
@@epicninja2378 Basically idea is they transport supplies to difficult to supply garrisons where road transport might be impossible due to quality of the roads or enemy patrols and they actually want the insurgents to attack them so that they can unload their troops and counterattack. Essentially acting as a trap to lure scattered cells into a conventional battle.
@@Mr6Blindside well that's the real problem with armored trains.
But here is my guess: those tracks are also used to supply nearby towns and cities that the "insurgents" live in and/or wish to capture, so destroying the tracks to deny military reinforcements also denies civilian supplies that stock the supermarkets.
@@Mr6Blindside If you watched the video you'd realize why they can't do that.
There was a famous armored train incident in the Boer War. The British used train-mounted artillery on the Boer insurgents, but they foolishly did not protect the railway, and the Boers managed to block the line with boulders, and trap the train. Young war correspondent Winston Churchill was captured as a result, and the dispatches he wrote about his time in captivity massively increased his fame, and enabled him to begin a political career.
The film Young Winston depicts this, it also shows his participation in the Sudan campaign. The last great cavalry charge of the British Army as he called it.
I don't think "insurgents" as the brits were the ones attacking the sovereignty of Transvaal and Orange Free State, so they were just protecting their own country.
anonnieman I used the term “insurgent” to refer to the fact that the Boers did not have a recognized belligerent status, and so fought using insurgency tactics - hiding among the civilian population rather than wearing soldier uniforms. I did not mean it to imply that the Boers cause was unjust.
formless777 Churchill was the guy who stood alone against the Nazis, who recognized their evil before any other British leader, urge Britain to begin rearmament as the Nazi threat began to take shape, and not give in to the escalating territorial demands Hitler made. He is arguably the greatest anti-Nazi in history. It is laughable that this man, who opposed Nazi tyranny before anyone else, and rallied Britain to this great cause, should be denigrated by LARPers today who bask in the safety that Churchill wrought, and who have never in their lives faced any kind of peril, let alone the extreme Nazi peril that Churchill faced down.
@@deliezer you must be mistaking the first Boer War with the second. The second pretty much was a "normal armed conflict" and can be seen as the first "modern" war with modern weapons and tactics. The latter is the one that Churchill participated in as a journalist and was at some point aboard this armed train. Luckily you admit that their cause was not unjust as, despite British propaganda of the day, they were certainly the lesser evil of that specific war.
I like to think of my daily commuter as an armored train.
Battle starts: No armored train.
Battle ends: No armored train.
War ends: The armored train arrives.
Armored train: Dear ladies and gentlemen, due to a short disruption in our operational schedule, we feature a minor delay. Many thanks for your understanding.
Zänk ju for trävellink wif Deutsche Bahn!
@@familiehagen7116 вот вот взгляд
Another important fact to consider that by the second world war most of the industrialized nations on Earth had close to eighty years of experience building and maintaining railroad tracks as quickly and efficiently as possible. That makes track destruction a very short-term solution. This might be fine for blunting an attack or slowing reinforcements, but to have a strategic effect you need to attack bridges, switchyards, and railheads. This will work, but you'll create significant problems for yourself if you plan on occupying that territory.
Yes indeed. From the middle of the 19th century to today if you want to move a lot of stuff (AFVs, soldiers, ammunition, equipment, supplies, food, whatever) over land a railway is the most efficient method. A rail network is not as adversely affected by weather so can function for most, if not all, of a year.
In those areas where other infrastructure is sparse or non-existent an armoured train that can defend its' cargo makes a lot of sense.
@@henrya3530 This is the reason why wheeled IFVs are something indispensable in the modern army: they can be used on regular roads and have generally really good strategic mobility so they can screen for all the tanks and tracked vehicles that need special equipment (rail, carriers) to get around. Something that people really don't talk about today in context of the russian threat is that whoever Russians decide to invade might have to fend for themselves for two weeks before all the trains with German, French, US etc. armor comes. And with current tech the war can be over even faster than 2 weeks...
So in summary armoured trains are best used in low intensity conflicts due to the inability of both sides to deploy useful counter measures.
Policing and protection of rail links are most valuable in low intensity conflicts because of the rate forces can be mobilised en mass, all without the large scale deployment of masses of trucks and fuel and other logistics at the time.
Basically once you can supply heavy weapons to your front line troops (or competent artillery support) these trains rapidly lose value due to the cost and specialist nature of the weapon platform. While tanks and trucks can move more freely and offer firepower and a greater flexibility regarding loads.
Check out Krajina Express - armored train that fought in Civil War in Yugoslavia.
the magic train
yep I saw that picture.
It was not civil war..☝️
@Car Tifusar Well clearly somebody was providing "Assistance".
Why Armored Trains?
My dear boy. Does one truly need to go further into why than simply the word "Armored Train". That is all the explanation one should need on the matter.
AGAIN THINKING HAVE TO BLOW A HOLE IN IT? TO DEFEAT IT?? NOPE!! WHAT IS ARMOR?? MOSTLY THICK METAL? LIKE A REAL THICK STOVE HEAT ON THE INSIDE OR OUT WILL GO WHERE?? TO THE OTHER SIDE?? FLASE ROADWAY DITCHES STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE A CAR OR TRUCK BUT A TANK WOULD BREAK AND FALL RIGHT IN A LINE PIT WITH FUEL AND A 10 SECOND DELAYED FUSE?? EVERY TANK CAN BE MADE INTO TO THESE?... AN OVEN? BEST THING IS R.P.G.'S AND FLAME THROWERS CANT SEE ALL SENORS GO OFFLINE, AND YOU CAN CLOSE AND CUT TRACKS THEN BREW THEM UP. THE GERMANS CAME OUT WITH THESE YA KNOW HOW WE KILLED THEM? P-47'S DROPPED ..NAMPLAM ON THEM??
Why not Armourless train? it cheaper by the way and easier to be replaced.
@@brucesweatman2146 Are you okay? Do you need help?
@@brucesweatman2146Homie was assaulted as a child by an armored train lol
Who does not like Armoured Trains?
A train covered in PM10s and T26 turrets traveling at speed.... what a sight.
You could do what the Vietminh did with wooden sleepered track. A basic method of lining track up is a gang of men with levers to shift it small distances without unfastening each length of track. There are videos on YT about his BR's gangers maintain the track using such methods.
You say armored train, I say a moving fortress.
Had a relative who was an armoured Train driver in the Battle of Stalingrad, was wounded in early 43 and then transported to the rear. He recently died at 95
Thank his family for his service from me
How was he hurt if he was in the train
@@aaronmuldowney2064 Never asked him, probably artillery
The coal wasn't what made spotting a steam engine easy, the excess steam was.
There are locos, Baureihe 52 Kond., which had condenser tenders. The turbine blowers made the smoke invisible when standing or starting, which otherwise was visible due to incomplete burning.
52 Kond were popular in front of hospital trains, as they were very low profile from the air.
There is almost nothing cooler than a train sporting armor and cannons.
I ♥ Paris Guns
Airships or submarines being aircraft carriers
The Paris guns weren't armored.
orbital strike satellites (only illegal depending on what ammunition they use).
@@IrishCarney
I already realised how beautiful it is to have a submarine that can launch aircraft.
Strengh: Looks awesome! Weakness: Easily derailed.
Something I was surprised you didn't mention re: Trains on the WWII Russian Front, i.e. the advantage of trains over AFV formations during inclement weather is typified by my "experience" from playing a full-blown 1941-1945 Campaign in "Gary Grigsby's War In The East". During the Rasputitsa turns (turns during the Muddy Seasons), the entire front generally tended to freeze up, with the exception of the areas around.....*drum-roll*.....the Train-Tracks. Since I was playing the Soviets, I always made a point of maneuvering whole armies into position for offensives that would occur either during the post-Fall Rasputitsa or during the drying-out post-Spring one. The Germans could have those fancy Panzer Divisions, all they wanted, but if they were conducting offensives just before the Muddy seasons, they were effectively STUCK until the season was over. I always kept as many reserve Red Army Divisions on the rails as possible, and generally managed to change the complexion of the War, as it was, by shifting things around, much as they did in WWI, whereas the generally more "modern" Wehrmacht (at least the Motorised and Panzer elements) was stuck in low gear at the wrong times.
Great job! I am happy that someone is finally addressing this is a comprehensive manner as you did. Truly a "forgotten weapon."
It is a pity, that You didn't cover operations of Polish armored trains in 1939. I think, that this was the brightest moment of armored trains ever and probably the last time, when they were used as intended.
As always, informative and expertly referenced and just plain nice to watch and listen to .
Because they're cool.
"Continued to be used into the 21st century"
I had to know what that was from and immediately looked and found this gem on Wikipedia
"Pro-Russian militants in the Donbass region of Ukraine were pictured operating a homemade armoured train in late 2015."
The pictured source is of a flatbed car with a towed anti aircraft gun sitting in it with 2 men operating it.
Love your videos- maybe add some pictures along the way of the subject matter- it would be great to see some examples of armored trains while you are describing them- keep up the good work!
I remember reading about the attacks on the southern railroads. It seemed to only be effective against the Industrially crippled Confederacy.
From what I read special armored traincars that resembelt the unique knil armored personal carriers, were used by the Dutch in the Indonesian war of independance 1945-1949. Also the tactic with the empty carts infront of the locomotives was also exstencively used.
TL;DR version: Why NOT Armoured Trains?
Imagine a stupid fast Abrams on rail.
AND THINK OF A FAST ABRAMS IN A DERAILMENT THE DAY OF HIS WEAPON SYSTEM IS ...GONE BUT HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? BEING A MEMBER OF THE MOM'S BASEMENT BATTALION?? HOPE IS THE NEXT BATTLE, THE INVASION OF THE U.S.A.? HOPE THE U.S. GENERAL THINKS JUST LIKE YOU? MAKE MY JOB DONE IN ON DAY.
bruce sweatman Yes.
Once derailed, M1 Abrams armour will be entirely useless
UK never used them because we couldn't get them to run on time.
No!
That was Italy :)
Model Railroader: Urge to model intensifies.
Very good...enjoyed much
Butchering of country names still legendary
Would love you to do a bit more info on the railguns, especially the superheavy ones like the one that shelled Sevastopol, or the Paris gun in WWI. Great work :)
covered one of those already: ua-cam.com/video/sSx_Q6YeYaU/v-deo.html
My answer: Why not, infrastructure is there and why not defend your cargo, or put it to use?
Back when the aircraft and motor vehicles were primitive or non-existent, train seems like the way to go, on dry land at least 😄
THEN WORLD WAR TWO CAME ALONE AN THE AMERICANS PROVE THEM WRONG/ THEY MOVED MORE BY TRUCK AND PLANE THEN THEY DID WITH TRAINS?? THE FACTOR FOR WINNING WAS AIR POWER HE WHO HAD IT? ...WON. PERIOD.
@@brucesweatman2146
Maybe not American forces because their homeland is separated by sea, but it is a vital logistical device by the Russians as they have a lot of train tracks, and it could carry way more goods than air and truck combined.
@@brucesweatman2146MAYBE IF YOU SPAM ALL CAPS YOULL GET YOUR POINT ACROSS BETTER
We need armored trains so that we can watch Partisans can raid them in movies.
I pictured this dude very differently. Great stuff.
Hey good to put a face to the voice. thanks for all the great history lessons sir
In 1943, the Germans started building locomotives of the Baureihe 52 with special equipment, to hide the smoke, by condensating it and leading it back to the water tank. But as far as I now, these weren't used for armored trains, but mainly to rescue wounded from combat zones quite successfully when the Wehrmacht was retreating.
Oh boy. This struck gold.
I read somewhere (either Paul Malmassari's or Steven Zaloga's books) that armoured trains had their most extensive use in Russia during the civil war. It would be interesting to know how they were used there but I guess finding sources would be difficult.
My favourite armoured train fact is the that the miniature armoured train on Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway was the only British armoured train to ever be credited with a kill in the British Isles. Possibly this was from shooting down the plane or it might be that the pilot misjudged his altitude because he assumed the train was full size.
I recall a story from.my grand pa, that there was a bit of a railway track in a choke point where a German armoured train was, and the Soviets kept sending waves and waves of infantry at it till they ran out of ammo.
Ww2, north-west of Hungary. He was 17-18
Make a video talking about Italy's tanks, armored veicles, etc.
It might be interesting to hear more about the calibers of the armored train guns, people sometimes like to talk about 150mm arty etc. but some trains transported quite large artillery guns. Were there AA gun wagons? I imagine there must have been. On the Eastern front, were much of the operations about taking over railway lines (supply lines)? Everything must have been carried by rail rather than by truck, trains can carry such heavy loads. Food, personnel, vehicles, ammunition, fuel, ... Most "historical" strategy games don't take railway lines into account at all, they are just an afterthought.
Speaking of armoured draisines to scout the tracks, I think the Japanese Sumida M.2593 was a cool concept. An armoured car that had special built-in jacks that could move it sideways so it could swap our the road wheels to railway wheels and be lowered in place. It could even be adjusted to different rail gauges.
Rail Bridges being destroyed could shut down a railine for a time.
in somewhere like russian civil war that would be impractical as your own side also needs railways for movement as the road system was shite
A bridge is a major investment to rebuild, and if you can control the bridge you can use it for your own supplies. Destroying it would only be a last resort - either during retreat, or deep inside enemy territory.
OR IF I SKIP TWO 500 POUND BOMBS AND THEN ROCKET A RAILROAD TUNNEL?? THEY DONT MOVE FOR THE REST OF THE WAR?
@@DanStaal
It like "If i burn every city on my sight, what good use should i get from it"
Kabaneri of the iron fortress - cool anime with armoured trains!
Why Armored Trains?
Ez: Pew Pew to protect ze flammenwerfers for ze Hans
It would be nice if you showed the various armored trains and other vehicles that the various countries used?
Good job but I would have liked to see some trains
Good explanation why use and could be used (eg: tracks not destroyed). One question, range of the trains on usefulness. I read that in US Civil War the trains at time had approximately 50km per fill of water and fuel. Obviously 75 years later the range is farther per fuel load, but pushing more "dead weight" (armor) would reduce some range gain. Yes fuel was more than abundant as trees and water is abundant, but stopping to reload while smoke rises is certainly not a tea break. Did any of your sources provide some range and fuel logistics?
> Did any of your sources provide some range and fuel logistics?
didn't look for that at all, I remember there was a mention in the 1945 German source that every week or a certain range there needs to be an overhaul, I think it was cleansing out the boiler or water tank and something else.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized I dont know why but for some reason this Comment reminded me of how the Germans Captured the French Char 2 C's destroyed for the most part on an abandoned Train once they realized that the Train Tracks were blocked
One factor the casual observer might not consider is that not all water is suitable for steam boilers, due to hardness and alkali mineral presence. In the Southwestern US good water was scarce so frequently a tank car was hauled behind the locomotive tender to extend the range. Very large tenders were also common.
Armored trains are pretty small compared to regular trains. The whole point of a train is to carry a huge amount of dead weight in the form of cargo. Convert even a fraction of that cargo weight to armor and weapons, and you’ll have something equal to the most heavily armored and armed tanks.
I love you’re accent
German WWII Locos and flak cars etc are interesting many are made in HO Scale For use on Marklin HO layouts.
Ralph,are there rr guns made,I want a gustov on my layout
If I ever had the space and money and time. Mostly the time to break away from my warhammer 40k Id build a model train set with the rail way gun ( the super big one ) and the flak trains. There just to cool !
8:18 the locomotives are Hungarian class 377s and the wagon in between is q postal/brake van.
Obligatory comment for the UA-cam Algorithm gods
There is something in aesthetics of armored cars and -trains which fascinates me.
The estonians used armor trains effectively in their war of indepence in 1919
Armored trains look so badass
The few people who play Equestria at War who watch these videos upon seeing the title:
*"Everfree forest flashbacks"*
Made sense when you consider the dependency of the Wehrmacht on rail transport. Armored trains could carry vital shipments and rush anti-partisan troops and those guarding the German rail lines, stations, and marshaling yards to where needed. They made use of captured enemy light tanks which were more than adequate for the counter-insurgency role. What's often forgotten is that these trains didn't operate alone; i.e., there were small rail-bound support vehicles and also wheeled trucks and/or armored cars as could be spared.
Seems like it would be pretty easy to disable an armored train by ground or air simply by bombing the tracks and/or bridges.
Tracks? Where we are going we dont need tracks!
was there armored train on train combat before? what would happen if two opposing armored trains were on the same line?
Yep, White army train against Makhno's free divisions in 1920 I belive.
Anarchists just felt back to the nearest junction and rolled a heavy armored railroad car stuffed with explosives as a brander from the hill on the white army train, that derailed it ant completely destroyed it's locomotive and damages the train itself.
@@alexmiller3349 wow cool! thanks
@@alexmiller3349 In general, White and Red armored trains often had firefights between each other during the war.
It would make an awesome tankcarrier. Like an aircraft carrier but with tanks. ^_^
Some did carry light tanks on flatcars for this purpose.
Just a note about the Sherman Neckties. The Union forces didn't just heat the rails and bend them. To heat up the rails they burned the wood railroad ties to do it. So in order to get the line functional again the ties and rails would need to be replaced. Which would be more time consuming and costly than just replacing the rails. sm
Thank You! I've been interested in the Russian Civil War, and armored trains come up a fair amount. I wasn't sure how they were used until now. The description of their uses and how they are used was really useful.
Yes, the Russian Civil War is probably the largest conflict over the use of armored trains. All opponents of the conflict made more than 500 trains from 1917 to 1922. The design was varied: primitive gun trains (a pair of field guns placed on a platform car), improvised armored trains reinforced with metal sheets or wood, heavy trains with 120-150 mm naval artillery assembled on the largest factories in Russia. Whites and Reds wrote several brochures and manuals on the production and use of armored trains.
Fascinating to witness modern-day use of these things and we've also seen the Resurgence of trench warfare and by planes and Moses I wonder if the Russians are going to bring out horses next?.
They still have potential use in low intensity combat altough their weaknesses are more exploitable then ever For example the serbs insugenty tried using an armored train in the 91-95 Yugoslav war on the Croatian theatre but it was rendered useless by croatians simply cutting off access, they later tried creating a bomb train with the intention of detonating it in a populated city but that was thankfully averted due to early detection. On the other side croatia built numerous armored carriaged and converted several locomotives into armored trains and these were purpose built mostly for guarding civilian lines from attacks but a few had AAA weaponry and were intended to be able to relocate quicky as early on they lacked a large amount of AA missiles.
The Soviets must have been cranking out extra T38 turrets for trains and river gunboats. A short barrelled 75mm, armored, with 360 deg. traverse would be perfect for such applications..
Have a look for Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway armoured train it's special
Can students of the early 20th C Mexican Revolution chime and and say if any of the forces ever made the leap from "armed" trains to armored trains? I remember reading about special flatcars that would be pushed ahead of locomotives to either trigger mines or serve as a platform for a protected firing position.
Seems to me like the most effective way to damage a rail line and stop an armored train would be to just set a trap. A small explosive, enough to derail the train, set off right under it or just before it crosses over it, too close to be able to brake and avoid crashing off the tracks. Though that means your saboteurs need to be able to be able to stay at the site for however long it is from when they arrive until the train comes, and need to avoid rail patrols.
You just put 5-7 emptly train cars in front of a locomotive ant that's it.
This makes me want trains to transport my BT in Foxhole even more.
My great-grandfather spend 2nd half of 1942 and most of 1943 on an amored train at the eastern front. He told me, he was member of a pioneer company then, repairing railroad infrastructure damaged by partisans. During the reconstruction they often got ambushed by these partisans, so they needed the cover from the armored train and the troops/vehicles it transported. The armored train also was type of mobile barracks & mobile workshop and transported the needed materials for the construction works.
They were also used as highly mobile AA battaries.
there were special AA trains at points as well, but generally, they are more like target for planes.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized that was my first thought. Bit like a battleship I suppose, big firepower and a show of force but decline in relation to improved air power. Of course movement of trains is slightly more predictable as well.
rat thrower slightly it goes in a straight line no matter what
I need to know
Remember that Family Guy scene where Aquaman was stopping a criminal but he was on land and Aquaman said, "You better stop it, or...or you're lucky you're not here in the water!"
It feels like the abundance of coal and the relative scarcity of petroleum for the time in which armoured trains were commonly seen seems to be under-scrutinised in the source material. It feels like a logistics question. Germany (but also other nations) had effective access to coal production and reserves compared to diesel. In the post-modern era this isn't much a problem so armoured trains aren't a thing as they're less useful and flexible than tanks, trucks etc. when resources are available.
It's interesting to think that we kinda came to the same conclusion to my doubts about armored trains (mainly the ability to just blow up the tracks). Thinking about it i came to about the exact same conclusion you did. You'd only blow up a small portion of track which would probably be spotted by someone and repaired. And if you do have enough munitions to significantly damage the line why not just use that ammo on the actual enemy positions and not a piece of rail.
Well blowing up the tracks doesn't solve the problem. The train can still fight but just immobilised. It's just like saying shoot the tracks of tanks and they are gone. If they use correct strategy like deploying the train in the tracks where enemy will have economically and other disadvantages. Like deploying it on the enemy railway tracks where enemy daily uses thier trains from export,import of goods and etc. If the enemy destroys tracks they too will have disadvantage
Furthermore the crew in Armoured train will repair the tracks because the enemy will only destroy a limited portion of the tracks so yeah
I always thought they where used as protection for supply trains
Thank you for this videos as I have often questioned what was the point of them. I’m still not convinced by them. The vulnerability the tracks must surely be more significant. Even if quickly repaired it’s akin to a mechanical breakdown but as trains and their contents are huge so is the consequence of this ‘breakdown’. The fact that Partisans didn’t initially attack many of them is surely a function of them not being worth it rather than them being formidable adversaries? What advantages vs risks is there to be gained?
If a plane is a 3D vehicle (back, forward, sideways and up and and down) and a normal land vehicle is 2D (back, forward and sideways)….then a train is a 1D asset. I mean it’s not exactly difficult for your enemy to predict which direction you’re going to go. It’s backwards or forwards.
The most efficient way to transport people or items is, from most efficient to least efficient:
1. Ships.
2. Trains.
3. Trucks
4. Airplanes
Trains could move bulk men and materiel close enough to conflicts to quickly reinforce beleaguered or exhausted units, and could carry heavy weapons/ support as well
If it was math it would be perfect coastal reverse drive permission and strong breaks have a geography level without terrains just clean slice
Hey, I live in Serbia and I've never heard about use of armored trains in Yugoslav wars. Would you provide links to something more concrete?
all sources are in the description
Would be good to use them as mobile pillboxes, have them be a supportive vehicle for defensive trenches where all of the rail lines are behind the front line. Nobody would ever want to cross no-man's land if the enemy can deploy a wall of steel and guns anytime an attack is sighted. Artillery would have already stopped due to an immediate attack, and anti-aircraft guns already present behind the front line means there is little you could do besides shooting artillery at your own men.
Your English is far better than my German and possibly better than my English. Lol
On a somewhat digressive note. During Franco-Prussian war and the Boer War a anti-sabotage technique was to place hostages on the engine. The idea was to discourage the enemy from destroying the train and thus killing his own people.
No one expects the armored Shinkansen !
I am switching from liking tanks to liking armored trains
Armoured train as an offensive tactics - is a WW1 strategy, unless you believe your train can get close enough to the front line or even breach through it. Armoured train with some armed details to look after the convey during a long trip - very possible, and might be necessary in some quarters of the conquered territory.
Nice collection of information indeed, but i would have appreciated it if it would have been a normal website instead of a video. Making a video only talking about the subject is somehow disappointing. The topic itself is very interesting though. I ould have expected at least a fewe more pictures or some snippets of rare old videos.
> I ould have expected at least a fewe more pictures or some snippets of rare old videos.
there are two types of people those that follow copyright and those that sooner or later get in trouble. I am of the first category.
Anyone else find themselves humming Sturmgeist's Armored Train while watching this?
If I wanted to take out an armored train I would just put a derailleur on the track somewhere along the route
Because they look awesome.
The armored trains played a very big part in the Estonian war of independence, multiple times beating the Latvian Red Riflemen, the Chinese and the Red Army in combat, and being the most feared weapon in 1918-1920.