To start off, I had never heard of Mewlips or their poem until now. Thank you for the information. Now, my speculation. The Mewlips are the corpses to the Dead Marshes. A distorted Memory that Hobbit have from a time before they settled the Shire and lived east of the Misty Mountains. The first three stanzas of the poem mention that the Mewlips dwell in dark, cold waters that are slimy and you will sink into and are surrounded by a "rotting river". The fifth stanza agains mentions their deep, cold, and wet abodes, but also mentions that the Mewlips have a "single sickly candle lit". This immediately makes me think of the "candles of corpses" that were in the Dead Marshes. The bodies sit in the deep cold waters of the rotting marsh and are only visible when these "sickly candles" are lit. Which in turn, as we see with Frodo, are somewhat entrancing and lull travelers in to their deaths.
And I was beginning to believe that I was the only person who had ever read that poem. I found it in a book published in 1965 called “The Tolkien Reader”. That was my favorite poem. I would recite it to creep out my friends. I was pre-teen so that is considered an acceptable use, I feel. Thank you so much for reaching beyond the LOTR, HoME and the basic canon/semi-canonical books to look at Tolkien’s other excellent works. I can’t believe I’ve only recently found your channel. I wish I could do something amazing for you for your content. Best wishes, JTI
4:18 Tolkien definitely knew about *The Time Machine* as he wrote about it in *On Fairy-stories* saying " Eloi and Morlocks live far away in abyss of time so deep as to work enchantment upon them."
That's true, and I am sure that in the early version of the Mewlips story that Merlock actually was Morlock too. I need to confirm that again as I don't know 100% at the moment.
The Mewlips sound a lot like Gollum. Perhaps some adventurous Took blundered into Gollum's cave a century or two before Bilbo did, and had the good fortune to come out alive again, but not before catching a glimpse of Gollum, and possibly being attacked by him...
@@TheRedBook That calls to mind one of the story lines in the LotRO region Vales of the Anduin, though there it is the local woodmen who have the legends of Gullum (The Snatcher or Old Mad Ubb). But as the hobbits were once from around the Anduin, then it would work for them too and the mountains would indeed be the Misty Mountains, and the marsh the Gladden Fields. Mewlips though does imply plural... but that could just be the distance of time.
I am going to be honest So far I have never heard of Mewlips, I enjoy every time I learn something new of the works of tolkien!! Thank you for the vid! (PS Am also looking forward to Sauron part 2 :D )
I suspected a lot of people hadn't heard of them, which makes sense since I don't think The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is popular reading among Tolkien fans when there's so much other material out there. As for Sauron Part II, that will either be coming on the 21st or 28th of this month! Glad someone is looking forward to it haha.
Do you think Mewlips exist in the Legendarium or are they a horror story spread amongst the Hobbits? Feel free to leave any questions you think would make for a good future video!
How does the goverment of Gondor functions in detail? I always wonderd if there is more than the quite obvious feudal structur and if Tolkien gave some more Infos about the day to day business and the role of the monarch
@@ValerianLincinius - I think there are some interesting details about the role of the King, Councils in Gondor and the like. I'll make a note of the question :)
@@TheRedBook Great! The only more detailed issue I remember was that Tolkien empathised the role of the king as judge (at least I think so). I'm looking forward to your next videos (as always ^^)
@@ValerianLincinius Thanks :D and I think this video will pop up. I'm quite a few videos ahead and it's kind of just what I feel like doing when I arrange what I'm doing next. I would hate folk to think I was ignoring their requests!
I love your style and the way you smoothly pour over the lore so as to get more meaning out of the smallest bits of legendarium. With that said i think this is just a case of Tolkien playing around with words, given his love of language and thus poetry. He probably just invented some names that would help with the rhyme on his head. Thats what i think, nonetheless nice video as always.
Thanks! And yes, you may be right. I do love the idea of legends within the legend...since I mention it as often as I can. Even if it is just a poem within the world itself and not a reflection of "reality" within it. I say that since Tolkien says the Mewlips are a part of the Shire culture
@@TheRedBook Yes i agree that they are interesting, this kind of stories told within the world only enrich it, even if its not "real". Lets remember that canon doesnt have to be true. In that sense your work exploring this thin line of fiction within the fiction is more unique than the dozens of lore channels retelling the same "OMG AWESOME" bits over and over. Looking forward to your work.
@@SMunozDB7 That's what I am aiming for. The Q&A type videos allow me to make videos about anything really, but I try to do something else with the other videos. If a video I put up can't be made by just reading a summary on Tolkien Gateway then I think I have succeeded!
I had never even heard of the Mewlips! Though I guess it makes sense that Hobbits would make up terrifying creatures to scare off their children into remaining within the borders of the Shire ^^
Yes, I find that idea very interesting and it would work with them really being Orcs. Imagining Orcs to be even more frightening than they are. Or just nightmarish creatures on their own.
@@TheRedBook Absolutely! And considering how much hobbits travelled until they got to the Shire (including through the Misty Mountains, which were infested with orcs at some points), it'd make even more sense. They may have been Tracker orcs used by the Witch-King to spy on the men of Arnor back in the day...
I like to think that the mention and then subsequent disappearance of the Avari is meant to account for any conceivable type of strange fairy that you may find in real-world folklore, perhaps the mewlips are some long-forgotten descendant of the Avari, this also can account for the early elf related iteration of the orcs
I like the idea that the hobbits would have their own names for things, so let's roll with the Morlock Mountains being an old (local) name for the Misty Mountains, and the Marsh of Tode being a location near the Old Forest Road. From their time living along the Anduin, this conjecture is entirely reasonable to assume (and "Morlock," borrowing from H.G.Wells, can be an old Hobbit word for goblins, who of course live in the Misty Mountains and share many similarities to Morlocks). So, with that head-canon firmly in place, let's examine the word "Mewlips." Mewlips is similar to tulips, and "mewl" is of course a cooing sound, so a Mewlip may be a plant-like creature that lulls its victims with song. Incidentally, we have an example from The Hobbit, where the dwarves get lost along the Old Forest Road, grow tired, and fall asleep at the roots of trees only to get swallowed up. Sure, it may be a bit too convenient to make this connection, but it's hard to deny to comparison. The poem may have been a newer rendition (after the migration to Beleriand) of an old folk tale; a warning to avoid Mirkwood.
That doesn't make much sense given that Mirkwood was only given that name after the Last Alliance, which was long after Oropher came there from Beleriand (which happened sometime in the Second Age). There would not have been a reason to avoid Mirkwood before Sauron set up shop in it's southern reaches.
I memorized this for school in 3rd grade. I always thought they were folklore describing something potentially real. Some form of forgotten things that the Hobbits found on their journey west.
Well in my opinion we shouldn't interprate Merlock Mountains and the Marsh of Tode as the well known location on the map of middle-earth, if it's a Hobbit story maybe the Marsh and Mountains is just a metaphore to a small bog and a group of hills in some part of Shire or nearby it. Still, nice to see some of the lesser known details of the universe covered ;)
The greater context seems to indicate that these are very old tales that the hobbits brought with them from before their migration into the West of the World.
HANG ON. A marshy area beyond the misty mountains? A Gollum-like creature? Gollum was of the Hobbit folk around the marshes of the Gladden Folks. Couldn't some of those folk have carried legends of such a creature over the mountains to the Shire, based on the hauntings of Gollum in the relatively early years of his corruption and outcasting? Outliving those who knew him, he could be forgotten and reinterpreted as a nameless menace, with a mysterious power of invisibility to achieve his sinister ends. This became a creature of legend, the Mewlips.
The RPG 'The One Ring' had predatory aquatic creatures in the Long Marshes, exactly the spot you speculated about. They didn't call them Mewlips as that game only had the rights to 'The Lord of the Rings', and not stuff from 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.' It seemed clear to me that they were a reference to the creatures from the poem, though.
@@TheRedBook They call them the Marsh-dwellers. Still have the book on a shelf nearby, so here's a quote... 'The Marsh-dwellers are an ancient breed of shadow creatures, deadly and terrible, their name even appears in old rhymes, told to scare Hobbit children in the distant Shire (but the real meaning of the rhyme has been long forgotten)'.
Amazing subject. I've never really thought about the Mewlips before, and certainly didn't expect a video about them to pop up. And despite the lack of information, it was a really an interesting watch. Indeed, it seems that there is a lot to say that it's about the geographical region you talked about. The chronological order of the last paragraph resembles Bilbo's adventure in The Hobbit incredibly well: the Misty Mountains, the dark and lonely path he took through Mirkwood - and he even met the spiders, and no doubt he had seen the Marshes. However, we know the Hobbits weren't an adventurous people, so in the case this is a folk tale from the Shire itself, we should be critical about geographical locations. After all, I doubt few Hobbits that ever lived in the Shire knew about Mirkwood, let alone depict the entire region so accurately. We also know some of the poems in the Red Book were written by "various hands" from oral tradition - and I didn't see any credits to Bilbo or Sam in the Preface of the book. This could mean two things for the poem's age - if we accept the theory above theory about geography to be true: the poem is either incredibly old, or really young, in relation to the events in LotR. The assumption that it is an old poem is based on speculation that this particular poem is even older than the Shire. We know that the Hobbits came from the lands west of the Misty Mountains. Also, back then they had to be a lot more adventurous too, after all, I don't see the Shirefolk pack their bags and leave their homeland. So knowledge of their area would be better too. This could be the source for the accurate geographical information found in the poem. Furthermore, I don't think it's known why the Hobbits crossed the Mountains and settled in Eriador. So when you compare them to Orcs or Trolls, that might've been the reason: they fled for evil creatures that began raiding their lands. And when they crossed the mountains, the stories of the migration slowly changed into folktales about the Mewlips. If it's a young poem, it could be that this might've been a retelling of Bilbo's story, with a focus on his encounters with Orcs. And in the end, the Battle of the Five Armies took place beyond that marshland. This explains the accurate geographical information too, while they mystified the monsters Bilbo found on his journey. Of course, it's not a necessity that the entire poem is that young - some Hobbit poet could've combined Bilbo's experiences into an older oral tradition that existed for a long while. If we assume the Mewlips to be inspired on Orcs or Trolls, but take the geography in the poem with a large pinch of salt, the events the poem was inspired on might've been a lot closer to the Shire: it might've been about the long wars between Arnor and Angmar. The Shirefolk definitely knew about what was going on in the war back then, and the archers they send to the King and never returned might've spoken to the minds of the Hobbits too, and they wanted to make everything bigger and more fearsome, so even hills became mountains. There's so much to say about such a short poem, so much speculation. And even with all those connections one could make to the history of Middle-Earth and the Hobbits themselves, it could be completely made-up. And I have to admit: I might've have a soft spot for the completely made-up story. In a way, it makes Middle-Earth even more real: not only do they have creatures that are mythical for us, but they too have their set of made-up creatures. But indeed, no matter which theory is correct, this legend-within-a-legend makes Middle-Earth feel even more real. Sorry for my chaotic post. My head was far more chaotic while watching your video, so writing this comment has actually helped me to structure my own thoughts a little. Thanks for introducing me to this incredibly interesting subject.
Thanks for the detailed comment. It may be longer to read than my short video! I don't really have any disagreements with what you have written. Though, I didn't think of the consequences of the use of the "incorrect" names meaning that it could either be very old OR very new. That's an interesting thought. What your comment confirms for me, based on my own reading, is that either way it makes the Mewlips become a welcome addition to the Legendarium. They are either misrepresentations of other creatures, which speaks to the scope of Hobbit culture - Hobbits fearing the unknown, not straying from borders, etc. OR they are completely made up, which also makes the Hobbit culture even more interesting, a people with their own stories and legends. I'm very open to both, but do really enjoy the Legend within a Legend idea...as I state it as often as I can in videos...
@@TheRedBook Just asking to clarification: with "legend within a legend", are you specifically referring to the Mewlips being a completely invented creature? Because if you do, I can't agree with that specific statement. The reason for that is that, even if the Mewlips are based on Orcs and Trolls, the creature really evolved beyond them in the minds of the hobbits - as you have stated in your video yourself. It's like Atilla and the Huns, who can even be found in Norse mythology: and even when they are based on real history and real people, those specific stories about them are still legends. So either way, it's already a legend within a legend not matter the origin. Of course, I would agree it would add just a tad more if it was based on creatures that are less real, something like the boogeyman man, or the monster or witch under the bridge that comes to take the kids playing outside if it's 8 o'clock.
@@MasterBombadillo - Legend within a Legend is as open as you have stated here. To me, they could be recollections of Orcs or Trolls, or completely invented. Either works for me, but both still add weight to the tale. If I had to pick, I'd really enjoy them being a bit of both - tales passed down from Hobbits who perhaps had seen Orcs and Trolls, or spoken with people who had, then as the years pass, the stories get more gruesome and frightening. You have made good points though!
@@TheRedBook I'm completely in agreement with you then! Was just under the impression that you meant it to be a bit less open. Anyway, do I feel like there's a video about the late Tolkien mythology coming up, which changed a bit of the cosmology in The Silmarillion to be Numenorean legends?
Well it could be Gollum. A hobbit could have seen Gollum before he disappeared below the mountains, and the hobbit assumed that there were more of them.
Hmmmm... could not help noticing that "Tode" seems remarkably similar to German "Tod", death. And we do have a place called the Dead Marshes in canon. As for Merlock, well it seems awfully close to the Old English word "warlock". So something about dark sorcery, probably. The thing about the lands being moonless and sunless also suggests that they are close to Mordor. And the term "Mewlip" itself would seem to suggest someone who shouts and shrieks. I do think it probably refers to orcs, but not the ones in the Misty Mountains (who weren't there at the beginning of the Third Age, when such a legend would probably originate). It rather seems like it's a warning not to travel East. I will point out that the Fellowship don't take a direct road to Mordor until after they split at Amon Hen. The Shire isn't actually all that far away, as the crow flies.
All the art I use is in the description with a spreadsheet for all videos. I also show the artist and image name at the top corner, and I used that one at the beginning of the video. It is Lost Cavern - By TavenerScholar - www.deviantart.com/tavenerscholar/art/Lost-Cavern-592557866
1) The Mewlips are not distorted memories of Orcs and Trolls. I can say this because "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" contains two poems about trolls that are more or less undistorted; and because the Hobbits had fought orcs. Specifically, Bullroarer Took is purported have invented the game of golf by decapitating an Orc at the Battle of Greenfields. (Admittedly they are referred to as 'goblins' in the account of the event, but it is made plain by Tolkien that "orc" and "goblin" are merely different names for the same creatures. 2) My personal theory is that the poem is a distorted account of the depredations of Gollum on his kin, You note that the creatures are very Gollum like; and the most Gollum like creature is Gollum himself. On this theory, prior to going under the Misty Mountains, Gollum lived in a boggy valley, possibly containing ruins. Nearby hobbits who visited the valley tended to come to a gruesome end at the hands of Gollum, who we know was very happy to eat the flesh of sapients. And then from this, a legend grew, leading to the poem.
The poems in "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" could be from different time periods in the hobbits' history. The poems in that collection are not all necessarily written by the same person. "The Mewlips" might be an ancient poem from the hobbits' time in the Vales of Anduin or during their Wandering Days before they settled in the Shire. They could have encountered orcs or trolls during those years and not known what they were yet. The poem would then have been passed down through oral tradition until the Mewlips became just imaginary bogeymen in hobbit folklore.
Maybe these things should be analysed in a more linguistic way, since I doubt Tolkien would not have had any concrete linguistic consideration. "Merlock" sounds like the opposite concept to "landlock", hence some place (in this case mountains) that is either completely or largely surrounded by the ocean. So maybe the Merlock mountains are (part of) the Eryd Luin? Which would locate the dwelling of the Mewlips somewhere in Lindon maybe? This would surely seem to fit the aquatic theme of dank depths with wet walls, feet flapping and squashing on the floor. Having lips that mew might sound feline, but could also refer to seagulls (an aquatic bird) which in this context makes me think of the ensnaring sounds of sirens, mermaids or undies. So all in all I imagine the Mewlips less like morlocks but rather like Lovecraftian "deep ones" and I guess they're entirely mythological within the mythology, since we know that Lindon is quite the opposite of an evil place with lurking creatures, but when you've never been there and only know rumours and are generally afraid of anything outside your country, and of any larger body of water...
Thanks for the question, someone else has asked a very similar question as well, so I have made a note to do a video about why Glorfindel was sent back. There's very little info given by Tolkien but it's a good place for speculation I think!
Problem with the Orcs or Trolls idea is that the Hobbits seem to know and have words for those creatures already. Bilbo, for example, knows what Trolls are when he sees them in "The Hobbit", and in the Redbook, they are just called Trolls and not clarified as anything else
Indeed but I guess the idea comes from old stories before they ended up knowing what Trolls and Orcs were. Perhaps early Hobbit explorers or the like. Just an idea :)
I like the interesting speculation, but I personally don't think it's originally created to be part of the lore. Original title was "Knocking at the Door - Lines Induced by Sensation When Waiting for an Answer at the Door of an Exalted Academic Person". As someone who has experienced similar sensations, I find the poem very meaningful.
I have never heard on the Mewlips before, but makes sense that either they´re a fidgment of imagination on Hobbits lore, or indeed are some real very little known creatures so long forgotten from the former traveling story of the Hobbits from where they lived before at the other side of Misty Mountains, as where some still remained when Smeagol and Deagol lived there. So the mountains and marshes referenced where the Mewlips happened, could be some part when certain group of mountains stumbles across a marsh-like environment. I don´t think those are either Trolls or Orcs/Goblins as both were pretty knew by Hobbits so the Mewlips could be something else. There is a dreadfull rather little-spoken place of Middle Earth lore which matchs the area where Mewlips lived and that´s the Whithered Heath nearby to the Grey Mountains, on where according to Gandalf in the Hobbit a lot of dreadfull creatures lingered there including Hobogoblins, which weren´t never ever mentioned in other place and are quite mysterious on their own. The Grey Mountains and the Whithered Heath seems to be a refugee for dragons, as Smaug came from there, and still were hints of remaining cold-drakes even in later Fourth Age at the same area. I still don´t know why hadn´t anyone done some video analysing the situation, as it seems something eerie remaining from the former Morgoth´s past on the Iron Mountains as the barrier of Utummno, got surviving into the whole northern mountains of Middle Earth including Angmar mountains, Grey Mountains, Gundabad mountains and the Whitered Heath which is a sort of marsh-like on its own, seems as a part of the wickedness of the very original fortess of the greatest first Dark Lord remained there lasting somehow on the remaining mountains or nearby area in the farthest north of Middle Earth.
Undoubtedly the Merlock Mountains is the Misty Mountain range as the word Merlock is a derivative of Morlock which is a hybrid word of Gaelic / Anlgo-Saxon origin meaning Black Lake. The Mewlips would then be the first instance of Tolkien imagining a unique race of subterranean carnivorous cave dwellers, which eventually culminated in the creation of Gollum. For Gollum’s origins and character was a long time in the making, and his story was not always that of a corrupted hobbit ancestor named Sméagol.
@@TheRedBook - Did the elves only hunt for food, or did they consider the petty dwarves of eastern Beleriand pests to be exterminated (as they did later on hunting the spiders of Mirkwood)?
All of your comparisons to them possibly looking like bigger, exaggerated versions of Gollum... what if they actually are traveler's tales of Gollum himself (I know it's unlikely, but I think it's a fun theory). If I were wandering through a creepy marsh and caught sight of Gollum eating something in his disgusting manner, I can imagine being disgusted and afraid and telling the story when I stopped in at The Prancing Pony.
Yes, I think another comment put forward that idea and while it kind of shrinks the universe into that "everyone is connected" kind of thing I hate, it's actually quite an interesting idea. I could accept people grossly exaggerating this creepy creature they discovered!
Don't take the references to feet and finger so seriously. The Watcher in the Water was a Mewlip. Well, maybe. Quite a lot about it fits, and the rest could be attributed to anthropomorphism and the fact they had not been seen for many generations.
I feel like "The Mewlips" was inspired by Idris Seabright's classic little 1950 tale, "The Man Who Sold Rope to the Gnoles": d-infinity.net/fiction/man-who-sold-rope-gnoles
Addendum: I only assumed the Gnoles inspired the Mewlips because of the tonal similarity - and also because of the dates: Seabright's story was published in 1951, while _The_ _Adventures_ _of_ _Tom_ _Bombadil_ was published in 1962. However, checking TolkienGateway.net just now, I learned that Tolkien actually adapted "The Mewlips" from one of his earlier poems: "Knocking at the Door: Lines Induced by Sensation When Waiting for an Answer at the Door of an Exalted Academic Person". That mouthful may have been written in 1927, and it was definitely published in 1937, under a pseudonym ("Oxymore"), in _The_ _Oxford_ _Magazine._ Having said that . . . the title of Tolkien's earlier poem makes it sound _quite_ different. I wonder: Did that early version even have any "Mewlips" in it? I will therefore refrain from jumping to the obvious confusion, which would be that Tolkien's "Mewlips" were what actually inspired Seabright's "Gnoles". I also have to add something else about "Idris Seabright": that's a pseudonym too. You might know her under her real name, Margaret St. Clair, a terrific midcentury F&SF genre pioneer. Her other really famous story, "The Boy Who Predicted Earthquakes" (also 1950), was adapted for an episode of Rod Serling's _Night_ _Gallery._ Boy, that story is a truly disturbing little gem. archive.macleans.ca/article/1950/6/15/the-boy-who-predicted-earthquakes
I basically digest anything with Rod Serling's name attached. A really big fan of him. I have read The Boy Who Predicted Earthquakes, thanks for reminding me about that. As for Knocking at the Door, it's surprisingly difficult to find. It was printed in the Oxford Magazine and you basically need to buy a copy of it or contact those who have it to learn more.
I never knew the Mewlips existed, I have never read The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil. But to me it’s simple: Mewlips are fictitious figments of Hobbit folklore, nothing more.
I could imagine Audrey II (Horror's plant) to grow up to be a Watcher!?! :D "...(da doo).. multiple tendrils burst forth from the water, whipping and lashing around, (shoop da doo) before one snares the foot of Frodo raising him in to the air (total eclipse of the sun) above it's gaping maw before saying "Feed Me!"".
Obligatory comment on the singular, individual dislike on the day that UA-cam removed the dislike count, 11/11/21: "Yeah, I don't like that Tolkien wrote much gooder literism than me!"
@@TheRedBook My guess at what the individual who left the dislike was saying as he left it. The implied question being: what kind of person leaves a dislike on a video like this?
... or is Mewlips, Melkor's... "special" brother who lives in a cupboard eating wax crayons!?*/** *currently grounded for taking a dump behind Laurelin; somewhere the Sun's not meant to shine! :D ** when not eating them, he was designing the Nameless Things!! He'd make it and Melkor'd be like "WtF you call that?", pretend to put them on the fridge, but really chuck them to the depths of the world! Mewlips may be a Hobbit urban myth. If you say his name 5 times in front a mirror...? get killed for your mewlips akin to Middle-Earth's answer to Eyehole man!?!?
Tolkien didn’t tend to write history that was innacurate. He’s not like George Martin. For Tolkien the much more important point was to allude to the diversity of evil and good creatures in middle earth.
Yeah I know that’s what I mean though. Yes he’s creating mythology (like oliphants) but Tolkien didn’t share inaccurate or distorted mythology. He was typically hinting at things truly present in the story.
It's not very mythological if everything he is presenting is "as it is". He'd have left the flat Arda as a belief in the story or "mythology" if he had continued making his changes to Arda's history found in Myths Transformed. It's not a very good mythology if there's no room for it to be distorted.
Well, hobbits used to actually live along the Anduin and under the shadow of the Green Wood before it all went sideways and they had to flee from the Shadow westwards. I'd say, they have probably experienced orcs first-hand.. and after choosing to pack and fly they (also probably) were eventually left with cautionary tales, spooky stories and murky recollections. And the Mewlips are what we are left with in the end.
To start off, I had never heard of Mewlips or their poem until now. Thank you for the information.
Now, my speculation.
The Mewlips are the corpses to the Dead Marshes. A distorted Memory that Hobbit have from a time before they settled the Shire and lived east of the Misty Mountains.
The first three stanzas of the poem mention that the Mewlips dwell in dark, cold waters that are slimy and you will sink into and are surrounded by a "rotting river". The fifth stanza agains mentions their deep, cold, and wet abodes, but also mentions that the Mewlips have a "single sickly candle lit". This immediately makes me think of the "candles of corpses" that were in the Dead Marshes. The bodies sit in the deep cold waters of the rotting marsh and are only visible when these "sickly candles" are lit. Which in turn, as we see with Frodo, are somewhat entrancing and lull travelers in to their deaths.
You are exactly right Tot/Tod is dead/death
And I was beginning to believe that I was the only person who had ever read that poem. I found it in a book published in 1965 called “The Tolkien Reader”. That was my favorite poem. I would recite it to creep out my friends. I was pre-teen so that is considered an acceptable use, I feel.
Thank you so much for reaching beyond the LOTR, HoME and the basic canon/semi-canonical books to look at Tolkien’s other excellent works. I can’t believe I’ve only recently found your channel. I wish I could do something amazing for you for your content. Best wishes, JTI
4:18 Tolkien definitely knew about *The Time Machine* as he wrote about it in *On Fairy-stories* saying " Eloi and Morlocks live far away in abyss of time so deep as to work enchantment upon them."
That's true, and I am sure that in the early version of the Mewlips story that Merlock actually was Morlock too. I need to confirm that again as I don't know 100% at the moment.
The Mewlips sound a lot like Gollum. Perhaps some adventurous Took blundered into Gollum's cave a century or two before Bilbo did, and had the good fortune to come out alive again, but not before catching a glimpse of Gollum, and possibly being attacked by him...
That would be a funny way of tying it all together, I hadn't thought of that idea.
@@TheRedBook That calls to mind one of the story lines in the LotRO region Vales of the Anduin, though there it is the local woodmen who have the legends of Gullum (The Snatcher or Old Mad Ubb). But as the hobbits were once from around the Anduin, then it would work for them too and the mountains would indeed be the Misty Mountains, and the marsh the Gladden Fields. Mewlips though does imply plural... but that could just be the distance of time.
I am going to be honest
So far I have never heard of Mewlips, I enjoy every time I learn something new of the works of tolkien!!
Thank you for the vid!
(PS Am also looking forward to Sauron part 2 :D )
I suspected a lot of people hadn't heard of them, which makes sense since I don't think The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is popular reading among Tolkien fans when there's so much other material out there.
As for Sauron Part II, that will either be coming on the 21st or 28th of this month! Glad someone is looking forward to it haha.
Do you think Mewlips exist in the Legendarium or are they a horror story spread amongst the Hobbits? Feel free to leave any questions you think would make for a good future video!
How does the goverment of Gondor functions in detail?
I always wonderd if there is more than the quite obvious feudal structur and if Tolkien gave some more Infos about the day to day business and the role of the monarch
@@ValerianLincinius - I think there are some interesting details about the role of the King, Councils in Gondor and the like. I'll make a note of the question :)
@@TheRedBook
Great!
The only more detailed issue I remember was that Tolkien empathised the role of the king as judge (at least I think so).
I'm looking forward to your next videos (as always ^^)
@@ValerianLincinius Thanks :D and I think this video will pop up. I'm quite a few videos ahead and it's kind of just what I feel like doing when I arrange what I'm doing next. I would hate folk to think I was ignoring their requests!
I want to second that request for a video on the Nameless Things 😁
I love your style and the way you smoothly pour over the lore so as to get more meaning out of the smallest bits of legendarium.
With that said i think this is just a case of Tolkien playing around with words, given his love of language and thus poetry. He probably just invented some names that would help with the rhyme on his head. Thats what i think, nonetheless nice video as always.
Thanks! And yes, you may be right. I do love the idea of legends within the legend...since I mention it as often as I can. Even if it is just a poem within the world itself and not a reflection of "reality" within it. I say that since Tolkien says the Mewlips are a part of the Shire culture
@@TheRedBook Yes i agree that they are interesting, this kind of stories told within the world only enrich it, even if its not "real". Lets remember that canon doesnt have to be true. In that sense your work exploring this thin line of fiction within the fiction is more unique than the dozens of lore channels retelling the same "OMG AWESOME" bits over and over.
Looking forward to your work.
@@SMunozDB7 That's what I am aiming for. The Q&A type videos allow me to make videos about anything really, but I try to do something else with the other videos. If a video I put up can't be made by just reading a summary on Tolkien Gateway then I think I have succeeded!
@@TheRedBook
That makes your job harder, but we appreciate the results.😁
I had never even heard of the Mewlips! Though I guess it makes sense that Hobbits would make up terrifying creatures to scare off their children into remaining within the borders of the Shire ^^
Yes, I find that idea very interesting and it would work with them really being Orcs. Imagining Orcs to be even more frightening than they are. Or just nightmarish creatures on their own.
@@TheRedBook Absolutely! And considering how much hobbits travelled until they got to the Shire (including through the Misty Mountains, which were infested with orcs at some points), it'd make even more sense. They may have been Tracker orcs used by the Witch-King to spy on the men of Arnor back in the day...
@@LeHobbitFan Haha endless possibilities it seems, all from a long forgotten poem!
I like to think that the mention and then subsequent disappearance of the Avari is meant to account for any conceivable type of strange fairy that you may find in real-world folklore, perhaps the mewlips are some long-forgotten descendant of the Avari, this also can account for the early elf related iteration of the orcs
I like the idea that the hobbits would have their own names for things, so let's roll with the Morlock Mountains being an old (local) name for the Misty Mountains, and the Marsh of Tode being a location near the Old Forest Road. From their time living along the Anduin, this conjecture is entirely reasonable to assume (and "Morlock," borrowing from H.G.Wells, can be an old Hobbit word for goblins, who of course live in the Misty Mountains and share many similarities to Morlocks).
So, with that head-canon firmly in place, let's examine the word "Mewlips."
Mewlips is similar to tulips, and "mewl" is of course a cooing sound, so a Mewlip may be a plant-like creature that lulls its victims with song. Incidentally, we have an example from The Hobbit, where the dwarves get lost along the Old Forest Road, grow tired, and fall asleep at the roots of trees only to get swallowed up. Sure, it may be a bit too convenient to make this connection, but it's hard to deny to comparison. The poem may have been a newer rendition (after the migration to Beleriand) of an old folk tale; a warning to avoid Mirkwood.
That doesn't make much sense given that Mirkwood was only given that name after the Last Alliance, which was long after Oropher came there from Beleriand (which happened sometime in the Second Age). There would not have been a reason to avoid Mirkwood before Sauron set up shop in it's southern reaches.
I memorized this for school in 3rd grade. I always thought they were folklore describing something potentially real. Some form of forgotten things that the Hobbits found on their journey west.
That's great :D reading the adventures of Tom Bombadil so early!
Didn’t get a notification for this video :(
Keep up the great work Mellon!!
Oh, really? I think UA-cam forces people to click the bell but I thought subscribers would be told anyway. Broken UA-cam!
Well in my opinion we shouldn't interprate Merlock Mountains and the Marsh of Tode as the well known location on the map of middle-earth, if it's a Hobbit story maybe the Marsh and Mountains is just a metaphore to a small bog and a group of hills in some part of Shire or nearby it. Still, nice to see some of the lesser known details of the universe covered ;)
The greater context seems to indicate that these are very old tales that the hobbits brought with them from before their migration into the West of the World.
I wonder if Bilbo thought Gollum was a Mewlip when he met him?
HANG ON.
A marshy area beyond the misty mountains? A Gollum-like creature?
Gollum was of the Hobbit folk around the marshes of the Gladden Folks. Couldn't some of those folk have carried legends of such a creature over the mountains to the Shire, based on the hauntings of Gollum in the relatively early years of his corruption and outcasting? Outliving those who knew him, he could be forgotten and reinterpreted as a nameless menace, with a mysterious power of invisibility to achieve his sinister ends. This became a creature of legend, the Mewlips.
It's a good idea Jennipher, a few people have commented this after I released the video and it's an interesting thought :)
The RPG 'The One Ring' had predatory aquatic creatures in the Long Marshes, exactly the spot you speculated about. They didn't call them Mewlips as that game only had the rights to 'The Lord of the Rings', and not stuff from 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.' It seemed clear to me that they were a reference to the creatures from the poem, though.
Interesting, do you remember what they called them?
@@TheRedBook They call them the Marsh-dwellers. Still have the book on a shelf nearby, so here's a quote...
'The Marsh-dwellers are an ancient breed of shadow creatures, deadly and terrible, their name even appears in old rhymes, told to scare Hobbit children in the distant Shire (but the real meaning of the rhyme has been long forgotten)'.
Amazing subject. I've never really thought about the Mewlips before, and certainly didn't expect a video about them to pop up. And despite the lack of information, it was a really an interesting watch.
Indeed, it seems that there is a lot to say that it's about the geographical region you talked about. The chronological order of the last paragraph resembles Bilbo's adventure in The Hobbit incredibly well: the Misty Mountains, the dark and lonely path he took through Mirkwood - and he even met the spiders, and no doubt he had seen the Marshes.
However, we know the Hobbits weren't an adventurous people, so in the case this is a folk tale from the Shire itself, we should be critical about geographical locations. After all, I doubt few Hobbits that ever lived in the Shire knew about Mirkwood, let alone depict the entire region so accurately.
We also know some of the poems in the Red Book were written by "various hands" from oral tradition - and I didn't see any credits to Bilbo or Sam in the Preface of the book. This could mean two things for the poem's age - if we accept the theory above theory about geography to be true: the poem is either incredibly old, or really young, in relation to the events in LotR.
The assumption that it is an old poem is based on speculation that this particular poem is even older than the Shire. We know that the Hobbits came from the lands west of the Misty Mountains. Also, back then they had to be a lot more adventurous too, after all, I don't see the Shirefolk pack their bags and leave their homeland. So knowledge of their area would be better too. This could be the source for the accurate geographical information found in the poem. Furthermore, I don't think it's known why the Hobbits crossed the Mountains and settled in Eriador. So when you compare them to Orcs or Trolls, that might've been the reason: they fled for evil creatures that began raiding their lands. And when they crossed the mountains, the stories of the migration slowly changed into folktales about the Mewlips.
If it's a young poem, it could be that this might've been a retelling of Bilbo's story, with a focus on his encounters with Orcs. And in the end, the Battle of the Five Armies took place beyond that marshland. This explains the accurate geographical information too, while they mystified the monsters Bilbo found on his journey. Of course, it's not a necessity that the entire poem is that young - some Hobbit poet could've combined Bilbo's experiences into an older oral tradition that existed for a long while.
If we assume the Mewlips to be inspired on Orcs or Trolls, but take the geography in the poem with a large pinch of salt, the events the poem was inspired on might've been a lot closer to the Shire: it might've been about the long wars between Arnor and Angmar. The Shirefolk definitely knew about what was going on in the war back then, and the archers they send to the King and never returned might've spoken to the minds of the Hobbits too, and they wanted to make everything bigger and more fearsome, so even hills became mountains.
There's so much to say about such a short poem, so much speculation. And even with all those connections one could make to the history of Middle-Earth and the Hobbits themselves, it could be completely made-up. And I have to admit: I might've have a soft spot for the completely made-up story. In a way, it makes Middle-Earth even more real: not only do they have creatures that are mythical for us, but they too have their set of made-up creatures.
But indeed, no matter which theory is correct, this legend-within-a-legend makes Middle-Earth feel even more real.
Sorry for my chaotic post. My head was far more chaotic while watching your video, so writing this comment has actually helped me to structure my own thoughts a little. Thanks for introducing me to this incredibly interesting subject.
I read and enjoyed the whole thing.😁
Thanks for the detailed comment. It may be longer to read than my short video!
I don't really have any disagreements with what you have written. Though, I didn't think of the consequences of the use of the "incorrect" names meaning that it could either be very old OR very new. That's an interesting thought.
What your comment confirms for me, based on my own reading, is that either way it makes the Mewlips become a welcome addition to the Legendarium. They are either misrepresentations of other creatures, which speaks to the scope of Hobbit culture - Hobbits fearing the unknown, not straying from borders, etc. OR they are completely made up, which also makes the Hobbit culture even more interesting, a people with their own stories and legends. I'm very open to both, but do really enjoy the Legend within a Legend idea...as I state it as often as I can in videos...
@@TheRedBook Just asking to clarification: with "legend within a legend", are you specifically referring to the Mewlips being a completely invented creature? Because if you do, I can't agree with that specific statement.
The reason for that is that, even if the Mewlips are based on Orcs and Trolls, the creature really evolved beyond them in the minds of the hobbits - as you have stated in your video yourself. It's like Atilla and the Huns, who can even be found in Norse mythology: and even when they are based on real history and real people, those specific stories about them are still legends. So either way, it's already a legend within a legend not matter the origin.
Of course, I would agree it would add just a tad more if it was based on creatures that are less real, something like the boogeyman man, or the monster or witch under the bridge that comes to take the kids playing outside if it's 8 o'clock.
@@MasterBombadillo - Legend within a Legend is as open as you have stated here. To me, they could be recollections of Orcs or Trolls, or completely invented. Either works for me, but both still add weight to the tale. If I had to pick, I'd really enjoy them being a bit of both - tales passed down from Hobbits who perhaps had seen Orcs and Trolls, or spoken with people who had, then as the years pass, the stories get more gruesome and frightening.
You have made good points though!
@@TheRedBook I'm completely in agreement with you then! Was just under the impression that you meant it to be a bit less open.
Anyway, do I feel like there's a video about the late Tolkien mythology coming up, which changed a bit of the cosmology in The Silmarillion to be Numenorean legends?
What are the Nameless Things?
That video will definitely come. It's on my giant list
Well it could be Gollum. A hobbit could have seen Gollum before he disappeared below the mountains, and the hobbit assumed that there were more of them.
I always wondered if they were Barrow Wights, as they mention gold, and there is gold in the Barrow Downs near Tom Bombadil's .
Hmmmm... could not help noticing that "Tode" seems remarkably similar to German "Tod", death. And we do have a place called the Dead Marshes in canon. As for Merlock, well it seems awfully close to the Old English word "warlock". So something about dark sorcery, probably. The thing about the lands being moonless and sunless also suggests that they are close to Mordor. And the term "Mewlip" itself would seem to suggest someone who shouts and shrieks. I do think it probably refers to orcs, but not the ones in the Misty Mountains (who weren't there at the beginning of the Third Age, when such a legend would probably originate). It rather seems like it's a warning not to travel East. I will point out that the Fellowship don't take a direct road to Mordor until after they split at Amon Hen. The Shire isn't actually all that far away, as the crow flies.
1:38 what is this picture and who's the artist?
All the art I use is in the description with a spreadsheet for all videos. I also show the artist and image name at the top corner, and I used that one at the beginning of the video. It is Lost Cavern - By TavenerScholar - www.deviantart.com/tavenerscholar/art/Lost-Cavern-592557866
1) The Mewlips are not distorted memories of Orcs and Trolls. I can say this because "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" contains two poems about trolls that are more or less undistorted; and because the Hobbits had fought orcs. Specifically, Bullroarer Took is purported have invented the game of golf by decapitating an Orc at the Battle of Greenfields. (Admittedly they are referred to as 'goblins' in the account of the event, but it is made plain by Tolkien that "orc" and "goblin" are merely different names for the same creatures.
2) My personal theory is that the poem is a distorted account of the depredations of Gollum on his kin, You note that the creatures are very Gollum like; and the most Gollum like creature is Gollum himself. On this theory, prior to going under the Misty Mountains, Gollum lived in a boggy valley, possibly containing ruins. Nearby hobbits who visited the valley tended to come to a gruesome end at the hands of Gollum, who we know was very happy to eat the flesh of sapients. And then from this, a legend grew, leading to the poem.
i would agree. particularly because orcs and trolls are clearly beings known to hobbits.
I concur. The limited description of Mewlips ascribes very Gollum-like qualities to them.
The poems in "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" could be from different time periods in the hobbits' history. The poems in that collection are not all necessarily written by the same person. "The Mewlips" might be an ancient poem from the hobbits' time in the Vales of Anduin or during their Wandering Days before they settled in the Shire. They could have encountered orcs or trolls during those years and not known what they were yet. The poem would then have been passed down through oral tradition until the Mewlips became just imaginary bogeymen in hobbit folklore.
Maybe these things should be analysed in a more linguistic way, since I doubt Tolkien would not have had any concrete linguistic consideration.
"Merlock" sounds like the opposite concept to "landlock", hence some place (in this case mountains) that is either completely or largely surrounded by the ocean. So maybe the Merlock mountains are (part of) the Eryd Luin? Which would locate the dwelling of the Mewlips somewhere in Lindon maybe?
This would surely seem to fit the aquatic theme of dank depths with wet walls, feet flapping and squashing on the floor.
Having lips that mew might sound feline, but could also refer to seagulls (an aquatic bird) which in this context makes me think of the ensnaring sounds of sirens, mermaids or undies.
So all in all I imagine the Mewlips less like morlocks but rather like Lovecraftian "deep ones" and I guess they're entirely mythological within the mythology, since we know that Lindon is quite the opposite of an evil place with lurking creatures, but when you've never been there and only know rumours and are generally afraid of anything outside your country, and of any larger body of water...
I have a question. WasbGlorfindel sent back to aid in the war against Sauron? And if so what did he specifically do? We hear very little about him.
Thanks for the question, someone else has asked a very similar question as well, so I have made a note to do a video about why Glorfindel was sent back. There's very little info given by Tolkien but it's a good place for speculation I think!
Problem with the Orcs or Trolls idea is that the Hobbits seem to know and have words for those creatures already. Bilbo, for example, knows what Trolls are when he sees them in "The Hobbit", and in the Redbook, they are just called Trolls and not clarified as anything else
Indeed but I guess the idea comes from old stories before they ended up knowing what Trolls and Orcs were. Perhaps early Hobbit explorers or the like. Just an idea :)
Mewlips sounds like a description of a cat's mouth.😼 But they are scary.🙀
Tolkien had a strong dislike for cats.
Gollum: These mewlips is ugly!
Smeagol: Yes precious! You needn't tell us that!
I like the interesting speculation, but I personally don't think it's originally created to be part of the lore. Original title was "Knocking at the Door - Lines Induced by Sensation When Waiting for an Answer at the Door of an Exalted Academic Person". As someone who has experienced similar sensations, I find the poem very meaningful.
i had read versions that referred to it as the misty mountains by name.
I have never heard on the Mewlips before, but makes sense that either they´re a fidgment of imagination on Hobbits lore, or indeed are some real very little known creatures so long forgotten from the former traveling story of the Hobbits from where they lived before at the other side of Misty Mountains, as where some still remained when Smeagol and Deagol lived there. So the mountains and marshes referenced where the Mewlips happened, could be some part when certain group of mountains stumbles across a marsh-like environment.
I don´t think those are either Trolls or Orcs/Goblins as both were pretty knew by Hobbits so the Mewlips could be something else. There is a dreadfull rather little-spoken place of Middle Earth lore which matchs the area where Mewlips lived and that´s the Whithered Heath nearby to the Grey Mountains, on where according to Gandalf in the Hobbit a lot of dreadfull creatures lingered there including Hobogoblins, which weren´t never ever mentioned in other place and are quite mysterious on their own. The Grey Mountains and the Whithered Heath seems to be a refugee for dragons, as Smaug came from there, and still were hints of remaining cold-drakes even in later Fourth Age at the same area.
I still don´t know why hadn´t anyone done some video analysing the situation, as it seems something eerie remaining from the former Morgoth´s past on the Iron Mountains as the barrier of Utummno, got surviving into the whole northern mountains of Middle Earth including Angmar mountains, Grey Mountains, Gundabad mountains and the Whitered Heath which is a sort of marsh-like on its own, seems as a part of the wickedness of the very original fortess of the greatest first Dark Lord remained there lasting somehow on the remaining mountains or nearby area in the farthest north of Middle Earth.
So basically, the "Big Bad Wolf"-version of Orcs/Trolls? I like the idea.
Nice way of putting it. That's exactly the idea I was going for :)
I wonder if the legend of the mewlips comes from encounters that the hobbits had before they had migrated to the Shire.
Undoubtedly the Merlock Mountains is the Misty Mountain range as the word Merlock is a derivative of Morlock which is a hybrid word of Gaelic / Anlgo-Saxon origin meaning Black Lake. The Mewlips would then be the first instance of Tolkien imagining a unique race of subterranean carnivorous cave dwellers, which eventually culminated in the creation of Gollum. For Gollum’s origins and character was a long time in the making, and his story was not always that of a corrupted hobbit ancestor named Sméagol.
Damn...You scared the shit out of me.
Maybe Bombadil settled where he could best contain unspoken evils from reaching the wider world.
Tom Cruise meets one in the movie Legend!
Maybe a rare elvish dish? xD
Indeed. They used to eat Dwarves, so why not have Mewlips as a delicacy??
@@TheRedBook sure! But beware of the most delicate manners you have to observe while eating this most delightful beeing!
@@TheRedBook - Did the elves only hunt for food, or did they consider the petty dwarves of eastern Beleriand pests to be exterminated (as they did later on hunting the spiders of Mirkwood)?
All of your comparisons to them possibly looking like bigger, exaggerated versions of Gollum... what if they actually are traveler's tales of Gollum himself (I know it's unlikely, but I think it's a fun theory). If I were wandering through a creepy marsh and caught sight of Gollum eating something in his disgusting manner, I can imagine being disgusted and afraid and telling the story when I stopped in at The Prancing Pony.
Yes, I think another comment put forward that idea and while it kind of shrinks the universe into that "everyone is connected" kind of thing I hate, it's actually quite an interesting idea. I could accept people grossly exaggerating this creepy creature they discovered!
The only thing we can be sure of is that they are definitely MEWING
Mewlips is the face Mewtwo makes when you take its picture.
The creator of Pokémon is a die hard fan of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil? haha :D
Maybe the Mewlips are Gollum
I think they were fallen Hobbits. It's possible that the ring did not just impact Gollum but his entire family and tribe?
Hehehe, Murlocs.
Mmmrrrggglll! Murgurgula!
Don't take the references to feet and finger so seriously. The Watcher in the Water was a Mewlip.
Well, maybe. Quite a lot about it fits, and the rest could be attributed to anthropomorphism and the fact they had not been seen for many generations.
I feel like "The Mewlips" was inspired by Idris Seabright's classic little 1950 tale, "The Man Who Sold Rope to the Gnoles":
d-infinity.net/fiction/man-who-sold-rope-gnoles
Addendum:
I only assumed the Gnoles inspired the Mewlips because of the tonal similarity - and also because of the dates: Seabright's story was published in 1951, while _The_ _Adventures_ _of_ _Tom_ _Bombadil_ was published in 1962.
However, checking TolkienGateway.net just now, I learned that Tolkien actually adapted "The Mewlips" from one of his earlier poems: "Knocking at the Door: Lines Induced by Sensation When Waiting for an Answer at the Door of an Exalted Academic Person". That mouthful may have been written in 1927, and it was definitely published in 1937, under a pseudonym ("Oxymore"), in _The_ _Oxford_ _Magazine._
Having said that . . . the title of Tolkien's earlier poem makes it sound _quite_ different. I wonder: Did that early version even have any "Mewlips" in it? I will therefore refrain from jumping to the obvious confusion, which would be that Tolkien's "Mewlips" were what actually inspired Seabright's "Gnoles".
I also have to add something else about "Idris Seabright": that's a pseudonym too. You might know her under her real name, Margaret St. Clair, a terrific midcentury F&SF genre pioneer. Her other really famous story, "The Boy Who Predicted Earthquakes" (also 1950), was adapted for an episode of Rod Serling's _Night_ _Gallery._ Boy, that story is a truly disturbing little gem.
archive.macleans.ca/article/1950/6/15/the-boy-who-predicted-earthquakes
I basically digest anything with Rod Serling's name attached. A really big fan of him. I have read The Boy Who Predicted Earthquakes, thanks for reminding me about that.
As for Knocking at the Door, it's surprisingly difficult to find. It was printed in the Oxford Magazine and you basically need to buy a copy of it or contact those who have it to learn more.
I'm sure there were all sorts of failed experiments of Morgoth/Sauron that got disregarded over time.
I never knew the Mewlips existed, I have never read The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil. But to me it’s simple: Mewlips are fictitious figments of Hobbit folklore, nothing more.
It's probably the case, but it still makes them a welcome addition to the Legendarium, just in their own way.
maybe they are some of the nameless things?
Perhaps the Nameless Things are even more frightening. Though, if we call them Mewlips, are they nameless?
Not deep enough
Think Middle-Earth's answer to Day of the Triffids!/Shop of Horrors love-child!? :D
I could imagine Audrey II (Horror's plant) to grow up to be a Watcher!?! :D
"...(da doo).. multiple tendrils burst forth from the water, whipping and lashing around, (shoop da doo) before one snares the foot of Frodo raising him in to the air (total eclipse of the sun) above it's gaping maw before saying "Feed Me!"".
Mewlips sound like the dead march soldiers
Obligatory comment on the singular, individual dislike on the day that UA-cam removed the dislike count, 11/11/21: "Yeah, I don't like that Tolkien wrote much gooder literism than me!"
What's all this?
@@TheRedBook My guess at what the individual who left the dislike was saying as he left it. The implied question being: what kind of person leaves a dislike on a video like this?
@@leviwarren6222 Ohhh sorry, I didn't even know UA-cam was removing dislikes, so I was confused :D
... or is Mewlips, Melkor's... "special" brother who lives in a cupboard eating wax crayons!?*/**
*currently grounded for taking a dump behind Laurelin; somewhere the Sun's not meant to shine! :D
** when not eating them, he was designing the Nameless Things!! He'd make it and Melkor'd be like "WtF you call that?", pretend to put them on the fridge, but really chuck them to the depths of the world!
Mewlips may be a Hobbit urban myth. If you say his name 5 times in front a mirror...? get killed for your mewlips akin to Middle-Earth's answer to Eyehole man!?!?
For me... they kinda look like à hobbit legend born out of gollum...
Tolkien didn’t tend to write history that was innacurate. He’s not like George Martin. For Tolkien the much more important point was to allude to the diversity of evil and good creatures in middle earth.
I don't think I was saying he's creating inaccurate history but is creating mythology in the story.
Yeah I know that’s what I mean though. Yes he’s creating mythology (like oliphants) but Tolkien didn’t share inaccurate or distorted mythology. He was typically hinting at things truly present in the story.
It's not very mythological if everything he is presenting is "as it is". He'd have left the flat Arda as a belief in the story or "mythology" if he had continued making his changes to Arda's history found in Myths Transformed. It's not a very good mythology if there's no room for it to be distorted.
Well, hobbits used to actually live along the Anduin and under the shadow of the Green Wood before it all went sideways and they had to flee from the Shadow westwards. I'd say, they have probably experienced orcs first-hand.. and after choosing to pack and fly they (also probably) were eventually left with cautionary tales, spooky stories and murky recollections. And the Mewlips are what we are left with in the end.