When should you add spices to your sausage meat? Beyond the Recipe
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Today we are going to figure out when should you add the spices to your sausage mix.
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Eric
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Very interesting. I have always seasoned after grinding, but wondered about the other two ways after seeing many sausage makers do those methods. So I appreciate your doing the experiment, so I don't have to. I have picked up many tips from you. Thanks Eric, and keep those sausage videos coming!
This is a awesome experiment! Great tips in this and awesome to see the end products gets tested by you.
Duncan Henry, I love watching you videos also!
I really appreciate this style of recipe discussion. This sort of experiment is often out of reach for most home chefs where resources don't allow the risk of failure or simply the volume of sausage being produced. Learnt a lot.
Eric thanks for your informative videos. I've always used a slightly different method. I mix all my spices, salt, cure and binder with the water then place the mixture in the refrigerator to chill and let the salt & cure dissolve in the water. Then I grind my chilled meat. Lastly I put the ground meat with my water/spice mixture into the mixer and mix until done. I've always obtained excellent results this way. My thoughts are by dissolving the salt, cure, sugar ect. into the water I get the best possible distribution of spices and cure into the meat.
The consummate teacher. I always mix water and spices together and add after grinding. Thanks for your expertise.
I make fresh sausage and season the meat without the fat and fridge over night and grind the meat and fat together after freezing, the meat takes on the seasoning where the fat hardly dose that's why i do it this way. might be worth a try if you haven't already, love the vids
Another great video Eric. I was really excited when you added the liquid to the spice and binder as this is how I have always done it with great success. The only difference is I add the liquid solution to the ground meat at the beginning of the mixing process. I would have loved to seen that process as well just to hear your feedback. Flavor wise I'm sure it would be the same as the other 3. Thanks Eric cheers
I always look forward to your videos. They have upped my sausage game. Thank you👍
This was really an informative video thanks for doing all the grunt work. Learning quite a bit keeping an eye on you. Thanks again
Great series for the beginner
I prefer to season before grinding. Found that the flavor development is better that way and it's easier
Yeah...the hand mixing is too messy and sticky
Mom's best jerky is coarse ground with spices then rolled up partially frozen and finally sliced evenly thick 3-4mm before drying. ✌🏾♥️👍🏽
Okay Eric, my uneducated sausage making opinion, from a mechanical engineering point of view (that is my education). I have a 3/4 hp grinder and can tell you if you spice your meat prior to grinding, and the meat is 28-32 degrees, a 3/4 ho grinder goes through that meat, like a knife through butter. It has more to do with having correct tool for the job, than the grinder being stressed.
I've been using the pre ground beef in the tubes to make my sausage and it works well enough. I chill it like recommended and season plus let it rest for about 12 hours before I case it. So far it all tastes good as long as you use the right amount of seasonings in general.
Another great video especially since I mix my meat by hand. Spicing before should save me a little work.
Yes it will!!! That's exactly what I would do
I’m very new to sausage making so I have a question regarding the 3rd scenario. Adding the seasonings and cure to the meat before grinding and refrigerating overnight i would think that the cure is only effecting the outside of the meat chunks, or does it actually penetrate the large chunks? If it doesn’t penetrate and you then grind it wouldn’t it not be as effective curing the freshly ground surfaces of meat? And if so wouldn’t it also need some additional time either before or after stuffing and before smoking to do it’s job preventing bacteria growth?
I’m only asking because my biggest fear is feeding friends and family something that may make them sick. Am I overthinking it?
Nice and I'm shocked, I was right. I was thinking it wouldn't really change the taste that much.
I'm new to homemade sausages, and i have to say, most of your advice is really great. Thanks, mate
Why is this channel named 2 Guys And A Cooler? I only ever see one guy, namely Eric.
Thanks for this top rated informative presentation, I have been following your advice in many recipes and none disappointed. Keep up the good work.
Greetings from Michigan
I cure mine 3 days ,add seasoning , grind, add water. No filler.
Polish recipe
Beat flavor and texture I have yet to make.
Excellent video ! When possible I grind the meat and season it first. Then grind the fat separate as a few other people have stated. I was told fat can not absorb seasonings. I then mix it all together and refrigerate over night before stuffing. From the looks of your mix. It looks like your combo of pork shoulder and fat is a 50/50 mix or am I missing something ? I was always told the pork shoulder is a 70/30 by itself. Love your videos !!
It would be really nice to know how to ensure the ingredients are well mixed. In the video - the criteria is the protein extraction. About 1-2 min. depending on the initial process. The method however is a kitchenaid mixer. In your recipes the example is 1kg. What happens with bigger mixes - like 2kg. It is possible to be mixed with the kitchenaid but I can see that even on the 1kg mixes the meat accumulates around the center of the paddle. The concern in my mind is that that a cure may accumulate in one part of the sausage while lacking in another. Do you think my concern is valid? What would be the best approach to ensure everything is well mixed?
One more point - I have never seen what is an over mixed ground meat and the negative effect of it. Is it only visual or it has a very negative effect to the sausage? Again - my concern is that under mixing (even with good protein extraction) maybe cause of uneven cure distribution.
Question: we know that salt lowers the freezing temperature of water. You say that salt worked on protein extraction in the sample that was in the refrigerator overnight and that showed up in the stickiness going through the grinder. That is plausible…I accept that. My question is if the salt lowers the freezing point of water might it be the reason the overnight seasoned meat went through the grinder more “sticky”? It simply was not as frozen even through the temp was 32 to 33 degrees? Would there be a benefit to salting the night before but cooling the meat a little more…say to 29 degrees?
Hi Eric, thank you very much for your time and effort to make this video. I really enjoy all of your videos, and I especially enjoy the technical side of sausage making you demonstrate and explain in the Beyond the Recipe Masterclass series.
You have mentioned a few times that overmixing can break the farce. Do you have a video that demonstrates the impact of various mixing times ranging from inadequate, to adequate and the impact of extending the mixing beyond the time necessary to form a nice bind?
You have adjusted the pH of tomato sauce when adding it as a liquid to a sausage to prevent adverse impacts of the low pH. I have an Italian sausage recipe that failed due to the impact of low pH. Do you have a video that shows how to add wine without adversely impacting the ability to form a nice bind?
Great video, The "bounce" is also salt extracting water into the starch expanding the starch wich is a main "glue" with the proteins . so it was the Potatoe starch and salt together ....The combination of both . If you are using a 1 hp grinder it doesnt effect the grinder at all on the size of the cut and the temp ... Chef with %98 foddscience result ...IN all my scientific tests aout food .I only add that becasue understanding the science of food into application is the differnece between great food and dam im an addict to that food ....That food controls my life !! I refuse to eat any where else diffenence ....IN short : knowlege is very important but not as important as wisdom which is the practical application of said knowledge ... The old Bull and the Young Bull are standing on the hill , looking down over all the Cows . The Young Bull says "lets race down their and ahem Mate with one of them !" The old bull turns and looks at the young Bull "how about we walk down their and mate with the lot of them "
That joke is obviously about many more things other than the Old bull knows better, it is the wisdom to understand that if take your time , you have enough energy to finish the whole paddock not just 1 Cow.
Listens to talk about protein extraction and how it happens and what if it’s done wrong. 🧐🤨 Remembering how my family mixes by hand until the spices are evenly blended over their forearms and calling good. 😒😅
Is it safe to let sausages (seasoned the meat with pink curing salt #1, let it cure for 24h in my fridge, and then linked) hanging for one day -another 24h- at room temp before cold smoking them? There’s just never enough space in my fridge to let the casings dry all around cuz I can only stack them in there.
What is your opinion of a dual grind setup?
While I like the concept, I think it's more gimmicky than anything else. The meat would almost need to be partially frozen if not frozen for the fat not to smear during the double grind
I worked for Hormel in the sausage kitchen in the early 80s.
We ground our meat for the Kielbasa and it went to the mixers and spices were added.
It was refrigerated and cured overnight and stuffed in the morning.
We stuffed about 1500 lbs everyday. I was a clipper. they were stuffed individually clipped and the tails cut off.
when the table ws full we would put them on rods and hanh them on trollys and off to dry for a few hours and then smoked, chilled and packed.
Hi Eric. Ive read about Sodium Erythorbate not only speeding up the curing process but also changing the texture of meat. I read it can make hams kind of rubbery in texture. I used to sell an Italian ham years ago when I worked on a deli that was rubbery and I loved it. Id love to see a video on this 'wink wink, nudge nudge' lol
What liquid do you prefer mixing with your sausage? Water? Beer?
I hav e been subcribed for couple of years but somehow missed this video. I think that adding spice mix before grinding mean less mixing time. I will continue to add before grinding. Over night does not appeal to me because of the mess. By doing it in one go means one clean up.
Please do a video of a basic kolbasa. One with MSG and one without and compare. I think you will be suprised
Good video. I add seasoning before my last grind, Then I add cure and liquid when mixing. Enjoyed the experiment!!
Do you think it would make a bigger difference on double grind sausages?
yes. The pre seasoned sausage meat will be extremely sticky and most likely not need much mixing. Will most certainly have to be partially frozen before gringing a second time otherwise it might get a little messy😅
nice, i think i heard #CelebrateSausage season 4, every year you just bring outstanding stuff, will be waiting here for sure!!!
great video, I. have wondered this. thank you
Great video, Eric. Could you do this type of video with different binders? Thanks.
Yes Sir. Already working on it
Could you season rest overnight and than freeze to be ground at a later date
Good info. I always add after grind and use a meat mixer to blend. I knew there would be no difference in taste but never thought about the effect of salt over night as I always mix and bag it over night anyways for stuffing the next day.
I just seem to find it easier and quicker to season the chunks more evenly before the grind. Didn't bag and store for next day, will try that next time
Clean, Chill, Grind, make Slurry, Mix, Chill overnight, Stuff, Smoke. The right way to do it. After making tons and tons of sausages. This is what I prefer.
sounds right to me🎉🎉
I go both ways, but usually I'll add the spices after the grind.
Why. For the simple reason I like my 'whole' spices (such as mustard seed and peppers) to stay 'whole'.
How come we never get to see the other guy and the cooler ? 😂😂😂😂😂
I’ll be butchering an 80 kg pig this month with winter coming on (Australia) and I’ll be trying some more of your recipes.
Last year I made capocollo, Spanish lomo and salami using your recipes and methods.
Amazing, shop bought results.
What ratio of water and why? I never add water. Is that wron
Okay cool video, so what if any was the easiest?
Great video! How do you deal with dampness developing on your sausages when cooking in the Smokin-it? I make sure my sausages are completely dry but they tend to get wet throughout a cook and I'm not sure how to combat that. Thanks.
What a great video. Thank you
Great to know!!! Thank you for your efforts🙏 Im experimenting as we speak with a batch of Finocchiona and am seasoning overnight. Would you also add the activated (fed with sugar and guven 30min towake up) tspx and wine as well? Will also be using the UMAi casings you mentioned
no. wait till you are about to put the salami into its casing before mixing it i to the meat
@2 Guys & A Cooler thank you very much, was leaning towards that. Very much appreciated 🙏😊 looking forward to supporting your efforts
If I make a coarser sausage do you think I need a binder? Don't want crumble sausage
So what binders will be best ?
technically you never need a binder but it does help the end results. I would use potato starch (easy to get and fairly cheap)
What wood would you suggest for smoking,as a beginner it’s hard for me to figure out what wood goes with what type of sausage .
The truth is that you can use any wood you want. Hickory is a very popular choice for pork and beef. Fruit woods tend to be better for a more milder flavor. I use hickory quite a bit, also pecan and apple
Funny.. with the same conclusion i would've given the exact opposite advice....
Its best to extract the proteins slowly
Becuse if you under extract/mix you can allways place it back into the mixer for half a minute or so more
But if you over do it
Well as far as i know there's no good way to recover from that
(Use your meat for somthing else i guess emulsified sausage/...)
(That is unless you mix your meat manually.. it'll just like dough
mixers Are powerful machines
And tend to overmix rather then undermix
Doubling you're mixing time isn't by any means a big deal because it comes down to a minute or 2 nothing serious even with relfivly massive batches-and by that point you should be quite familiar with the process and i doubt you can make such mistakes as overmixing)
Cool video! I wonder, given the added salt would reduce the temp required to freeze the meat, if you reduce the meat temp 2-3 deg more prior to grinding (for the seasoned meat), maybe it would have a more crumbly texture.
For me, when processing and preparing bulk meat, I always salt to 1% before placing in the freezer. Then, all meat is ready to thaw and cook. As for sausage, I'll add the additional 0.5% salt with the spices after the grind.
wow, i just made some sausages and I seasoned them a night before, big difference, was easier to make, and i got so many complements, with such a small change, worth it.
Thank you !!
I wish I was your neighbor. You make more sausage than you can eat.😂
Wow, thanks for doing this test, I'm brand new into the sausage world, and I've seen folks do it all three ways you described here, but I didn't know why or to what effect it would have. I think for me, it's easier to just grind and then spice so I don't overwork my small grinder.
Interesting. I would have thought the pre-soaked blend would have had a stronger impact but there you go! A question I have though, about seasonings and flavourings. Salt addition is fairly formulaic so fairly easy to work out. Where I live now is extremely worldly, with very little of any nations foods not available. However, I have also lived in places where you could buy pork chops and the people working don't recognize bacon as a pork product and if it wasnt pork chops (or bacon) then you would want the chicken. And spices were just as limited. How would a person with limited spice knowledge do if all they had to start with was say a chili spice mix or a yellow curry powder or just a bag of 'pickle mix' spice? Funny to think of it now, but there were times in my life the local shops that was all they had. How do you look at a package of flavour and decide "we need this much in there"?
Great experiments, have to admit I generally have followed recipes that come from someone else. Dont have the experience as yet to do my own. So what ever the recipe text calls for thats what I do, so I guess I have done them all. Can see me now looking for the best way for me and perfect that way..... Great video - YES PLs to Celebration Series 4 😃
Thanks Eric.
Just did your breakfast sausage (in patty’s) and you pepperoni ( did it fresh without the cure and aging. I use it when I make pizza)
All your recipes are excellent and I can’t thank you enough for the website. Just put in you meat quantity and it adjusts your spice mix. If damn brilliant!
For celebrate sausage how about a ham and swiss? I've been doing a pork and blue cheese, but would like a ham flavor.
Always had this question in my mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Now send the rest of the sausage here in the Philippines 😂😂😂
I always season after the grind and mix by hand. It usually takes me about 3-6 mins to get it to the right texture. I might try the season and fridge overnight method. My hands could use the rest.
In my experience, the longer the time between spicing the meat and stuffing the ground mixture into casings, the more difficult it is to push the meat through the hopper to the horn and into the casings; especially when using smaller diameter casings. My stuffer is a manual, vertical LEM. The grinding of the meat doesn't seem to tax the grinder (also a LEM), either way though.
That is correct. The protein extraction that continues to happen after it's mixed makes the meat mixture very stiff
Idk if "taxing the mixer" is quite the right word motor wise,
Large salt grains can wear down your blade (but that's easy to sharpen)
(Personslly i never tried mixing the spices before but ok interesting)
Great topic. Question on the smoker, I have basically the same setup I also have the SI jerky dryer that I usually run for the first hour or two. Would there be any harm or benefit to running it the whole time?
Would a test on fresh sausages be more even? The meat in the pre-seasoned sausage had a lot longer in contact with the cure than the meat that was seasoned after grinding. That could really make a difference in the texture of the finished products.
I’m wondering if you made a coarser grind mince, if the fat would smear with the batch that was seasoned and rested overnight, kielbasa is a fairly finer grind so maybe that wouldn’t be noticed as much, but I wonder if a coarser grind on the fat would make a difference because of the longer protein extraction time. What do you think would happen? Just curious
It would reduce it slightly but once the fat smears there's no helping the sausage.
@@2guysandacooler Have never experienced fat smear since I’ve been following you, my meat is always between 29*-31*, it comes out perfect every time.
Good info on spicing and resulting protein extraction.
How about a video on turning turkey breast into deli meat, etc.
Thanks.
Such a great series Eric and for me the most important. I think I've every mistake it in the past but now that I've been learning from you these past three plus years I'm really getting it dialed in. I still need to build that curing chamber and then I'll be set. Thanks for another great video. 👍
Enjoy your experiments and find your hints essential to my learning curve.
I would think if seasoning before grinding and your worried about wear and tear on the grinder it would be couple thousand pounds before noticing it and I would have sharpen my knives and plates before then 👍✌🏻🇺🇸
I agree
good vid dood!!!
What do you mean by over mixing have the batter "break" what does that entail and how do you know you have done it
It's when you've mixed it so much that the fat starts to render, the meat will no longer stick to itself and when you cook it the sausage will "fat out". The end result is a grainy texture that is very crumbly.
@2guysandacooler thank you. I think I did that once trying to make braunschweiger. Maybe that's a video you could do sometime? I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work!
kiewhbasa
Hi nice to tried I will do it the last resoul.thanks
Best video yet. Thanks
You and guga both should do blind sampling.
What about grinding seasoning and aging overnight?
That would work as well
Hey Eric, great video and love the series so far. Cant wait for celebrate sausage season 4. Quick salami question, if you're making a batch that isn't increments of 5 pounds how do you figure how much starter culture to use? One of your videos you say you never weigh it but what if I was making 3 pounds for example. Do you just eyeball 60% of what you would use in a 5 lb batch or just add the whole amount of what would be in 5 lbs of meat. I didn't know if that would ferment it too quickly. Thank you and great work as always!
Great question! Thanks for asking. The minimum I would add, is what they would recommend for a 5 pound batch (no matter the size you are making 1,2,3,4 pounds) This ensures that you get the right strains of bacteria in your meat. I will make a vide on this coming up😉
Thanks for the reply!
Hey Eric, does the potato starch act as the same as the non-fat milk powder?
yes
What about those of us that don't have a mixer and use our hands?
your hands are the mixer. It'll take you a little longer but these test results still apply
I really enjoy your channel. I unfortunate have cancer and won't be around to practice your art as and tutorial much as I wish.
@@ericwiltz6584 Sorry to hear about your cancer. i hope you are making the most of every day.
How about doing three types of sausages. Restaurant, Commercial, ad well as home style. And compare all three of them.
there is no comparison its simple shit.shit good
I think anyone who follows the cooler guy’s is not worried about commercial sausage because we make our own 🤷🏼♂️
Eric, you’re a great teacher/educator! Thanks for
Informative. 😊