I just purchased a warn winch and after seeing the dangers of steel cable when they break compared to synthetic, I immediately got some synthetic rope. I kept the roller fairlead because of this video and have had no issues!
I changed to rope, from wire, 9 years ago to save some weight. I never got around to swapping out the rollers but thought about several times, but have hardly ever have the need to use the winch. I won’t bother swapping out the rollers now after watching this video. Thanks.
@@L2SFBC Good question and not easy to answer quickly. Liberal is generally associated with the Democrat party. Liberals tend to be pretty open-minded regarding social issues and mores. Civil rights is generally a key topic for liberals. However, they can be almost as capitalistic as conservatives. The above poster was trying to use it as a slur, which is rather amusing considering it is the conservatives here who are supporting Donald Trump, a man who literally tried to subvert our last election, and if that is "using logic" then logic has a different meaning than the one I'm used to. But no mind to him, I really enjoy your videos! Additionally, I work with plenty of millennials here at my NASA center and they are smart, hard working people.
A liberal has been defined as a person with both feet firmly set in the air. As far as our current lib president we are having sky rocketing inflation with huge cost of living expenses
I am new to winch activity. I bought and rebuilt a trailer with an old Warn 8274 . After disassemble, cleaning and reassemble it works. I don't know how much power it has. I guess I'll figure it out. Thanks for the video.
I've used rollers my whole life and even before rope came out I've had the wire cable get stuck in the corners of the rollers but this was at ridiculous angles. Ever since I switched to rope I have had no problems with it getting stuck but I have broken a few rollers on hard pulls. So I'm with you and will will continue to use rollers. 👍🇺🇸
If you have concerns about burs or scars on the rollers there's an easy fix attach a scotchbrite type pad to a grinder and polish them out they will be good as new and slick as glass
I do the same thing with my snatch blocks (used with rope in skidding logs) and the rough inside of shakles (same reason) A good amount of the wear seen in rigging is preventable.
Hello Robert, thanks for a great video! I agree with you on the use of rollers with synthetic rope for the reasons you described. A couple of points that I'd like to add if I may: 1) Steel cable under load will unwind (much like a spring being pulled) and thus elongate. This is because of its construction being left hand lay and / or right hand lay. So when steel cable breaks it rapidly resumes its manufactured lay and this is what causes the rotational lateral whipping you describe. Synthetic rope is usually and 12 strand neutral braid and when it breaks, it recoils in the linear load direction and does not whip laterally like steel cable does, making it far safer. 2) The stowing load for steel cable is recommended at 10% of its rated capacity - very difficult to do by hand. Synthetic rope requires far less (about 100 - 150 lbs. is sufficient) and is doable by hand. 3) Roller fairleads that are poorly designed have insufficient overlap of the vertical and horizontal rollers and this can cause what happened to your rollers in the video; the synthetic rope can get caught in the edge of the horizontal roller and cause it to break. Thanks again for a great informative video. Respectfully, Chris
Thanks Chris, great extra info! I learned something! One point - on my rollers there's no overlap between the vertical and horizontal rollers, and the only reason it got caught in that corner was when I literally broke the rollers through abuse. I am not very impressed with the quality of the rollers; I think they are too heavy, too friction-y, too big and too ugly. I'm going to write a short blog post on this and will include your comment, with credit!
I have an atv and use it for plowing snow. I actually bought a warn roller fairlead (it has a larger bottom roller) because it only made sense that it was better for the synthetic rope to roll over a roller rather than drag over the hawse. That was four years ago and so far it has worked perfectly.
G'day, well funny that I should see this vid, as I have just purchased a 12k lb winch with Dyneema, and was looking at fairleads. I think you have convinced me of the roller over the Hawse, since rolling is better than dragging, esp considering how prone synth is to damage from scuffing. I have just ordered a roller and cannot expect it to be any worse than Hawse, and to the contrary. Thanks for a great video, cheers mate.
I'm glad I watched your video. I was wondering why people don't use the roller lead with rope, there's no reason not to, in-fact the roller is better. Thank you
thanks again - nice to re-watch - noting that the commercial roller fairlead that "failed" - significant abuse as stated - is possibly a poor design (or did the geometry change when the side roller failed) with the horizontal rollers being relatively too short - the vertical rollers relatively badly located... (the line should not be able to come off the end of the horizontal rollers ). (Failed Rollers means failed bearings in the fairlead..) Steel rollers could easily be sleeved in HDPE tubing if worried about rope damage. - also, unless a hawse fairlead is at least 25mm thick with well radiused lead in edge, it isn't serving any purpose other than a softer material that the line might cut into as opposed to a sharp steel edge. Of course pulling at stupid angles causes line stackup / birds-nesting and reduces winch effectiveness. As you mentioned, a simple redirect to keep fleet angles sensible is a great idea... (theoretically one could use an aluminium hawse on the inside of rollers - to prevent pulling against a hard steel ede in the event that a roller does catastrophically fail...)
This is a great review and this is my feelings also. I just ordered a synthetic rope for my truck to replace my wire rope with kinks in it along with a new roller fairlead. I have been using a synthetic rope on my ATV with a roller farelead for years connected to my 60" heavy steel snowplow. I have broken the end of the syn rope after many hours of use but always at the snatch block. When using rire rope it did the same thing also broke after time but was a real pain to repair without coming back to the shop.
I have a new winch that I got with synthetic line that I need to install on my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I will be buying a set of rollers to replace the hawse fairlead that came with the winch. Thanks!
Just adding a comment to help your algorithm. The reasons why I choose to run a syn rope and hawse are the weight savings along with the approach angle and aesthetics. I have two different categories of off-road vehicles, ones I play in which are small lightweight and large heavy work vehicles. Weight savings matter, every pound matters, in the light ones. In the heavy ones, I run wire rope and roller fairlead because longevity is more important than weight savings. It can be years between uses and I want the equipment to work when I need it, no excuses.
Thanks L Hurst, good perspective. I like the way you choose as appropriate and have reasons why, as opposed to just following the herd. That's really what I"m about, giving people information so they can make choices best for them, not just defaulting. And often that means challenging the status quo.
Thanks for all the wonderful winch videos. I do small scale logging and use a chainsaw winch quite a bit. The information you have provided in your winch videos is top notch, I wish I learned all this in the beginning, would have saved me a ton of money and hard work. Thanks again!
The process to manufacture a Hawse/Fairlead is significantly less complex than a roller fairlead, so the profit margin can be higher. What ever the price of either you can be assured the person selling you a hawse with your synthetic rope is making more money off the Hawse than a roller.
This has been on my mind recently thanks for posting.... Another thing to point out with using a hawse and you can see it in this video. I have a similar style bumper ( ARB ) and since it was originally made for rollers, the hawse sits so far back in the bumper. On an angled pull you can see it can contact the bumper. I want to switch over to rollers for this reason but I am concerned the rope could have issues getting pinched. This video helps show some testing. Now to figure out why a decent set of roller fairleads cost $200+ USD.
I really love this video. I’ve often wondered about rollers with rope it makes more sense to me to use rollers instead of the hause fare leed. I’m putting a 12000 pound winch on my trailer so I will be using rollers . Thanks for this information.
I made the switch to synthetic rope and also kept the roller fairlead for all the reasons you mentioned in the video. Hard to beat a roller fairlead, they’re made of steel and if used properly are nearly indestructible compared to aluminum hawsers that are all too often easily damaged.
Great video with excellent points, debunking commonly heard things. I'm replacing my steel rope with synthetic and roller fairlead with aluminum hawse strictly for weight savings. My last Jeep was way over GVWR and I don't want to abuse my new Jeep in the same manner. I respect that a roller fairlead is the better option in some ways, but I feel that for the very rare use mine will see (4 in 10 years? usually just use recovery straps), I can live with the inferior fairlead.
Good afternoon from Spain. On many occasions I have wondered the reason for the exclusive binomial between cable and rollers, as well as the exclusive binomial between rope and fairlead (hawse); I have always understood the need for the first pair, but not the second, except for aesthetic reasons and because the rollers protrude from the front of the car and are more exposed to impacts. Your video shows the pros of rollers against the fairlead (hawse). The jamming problem that you deliberately cause is because the angle is abnormal and high, even more so when dealing with the retrieving vehicle (the vehicle does not move); If that angle had occurred in a self-recovering vehicle, the nose of the car would tend to pivot and reposition itself when it begins to move and then decrease the angle. In any case, in order to eliminate this angle, an anchor point with a snatch block would surely be used. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with the entire 4x4 community. Best regards.
Great vid and completely answered my questions about this subject. I will keep my hawse just in case my rollers ever rust or flake chrome but until then... the rollers stay with the rope!
Glad it helped! Always, always challenge the status quo. There's so much in the car world people just do, and don't really think about because it's always been done that way. And not all products are properly developed.
My current truck came with synthetic rope, steel hook and aluminum hawse. The radius on the hawse is larger than the ones you show, but still less than the rollers. While winching in from the cab at the end of a recovery, i couldnt see the hook arriving at the hawse and when the winch took up the strain it gouged hunks out of the aluminum. If i hadnt done a load of filing and sanding it would have ruined the rope in no time. I've since fitted a factor55 billet aluminum Splicer thimble to replace the hook so it can't happen again - it is excellent with soft shackles. Rollers would have solved this, of course, but i had been told not to use them!
Thank you for this video. I have always used rollers with the cable. Just upgraded to the rope for safety reasons. I was wandering why people use the HAWS fairlead with synthetic winch rope. With your video I know why I need to install the HAWS instead of the rollers. I only plan on using my winch under a load. When I am stuck. So I do not want a failure. Thank you again.
Great demonstration, The jamming issue can be avoided and make the roller superior to Hawse. Jamming happens due to side flex of the roller's Cage which is made of steel, thicker = heavier weight. But if manufacturer make it as one piece forged or CNC cut out of 6061-t6 aluminum, it would be without flex and rollers should be 6 instead of 4, two extra vertical inside the Cage at corners. It could be expensive compared to Hawes out of manufacturing perspective, but superior.
I've had rollers break a 3/16" syn line on an atv. When I called the maker of the line (Custom Splice in Kansas), he said that the reason rollers often break syn line is because of the added distance that rollers have from the front of the spool, which gives the line more opportunity to get into the corners if the rollers. When you switch to a Hawse, the distance is less. I'm not sure how that works, but I'm buying a Hawse to see if it works better.
Sounds like the supplier placing blame anywhere but his product. Go buy a different rope, from a supplier that stands by their product. Also if you’re regularly overloading your equipment by higher rated equipment.
Actually the further away the fairlead is the better as the angle of rope to winch drum won’t be as acute when doing pulls that have side angle in them. Think about a recovery point off to the left of vehicle, it will keep the rope to the left side of fairlead. The further away the winch drum is the less the angles will be and better chance of it spooling across the drum and not birds nesting on one end. General rule of thumb for having the rope self wind onto drum neatly is to have the fairlead 5x the width of drum away from it.
To my good friend Robert Pepper... I think this video is pretty good. However, a couple of important personal opinions and facts for viewers. 1) Proper LEXICON Mr. Pepper. Proper lexicon! (I realize this may be minutiae, but words are important - as a journo, you know this.). It's Winch Line, not Winch Rope. There are two types of Winch Line used recreationally: Steel Cable (not "rope" - nothing "steel" is really a "rope"), and Synthetic Rope. 2) Not all Hawse Fairleads are created/designed equally. There are some horribly designed Hawse Fairleads for sale out there. In your video you show the WORSE of the WORSE. I get it, these Hawse Fairleads DO prove your hypothesis - that good condition Roller Fairleads are better than poorly designed Hawse Fairleads. Now, read that last sentence again. "Good Condition Roller Fairleads Are Better Than Poorly Design Hawse Fairleads. This is a MOST important point; I crafted my sentence very carefully. I wish I could post some photos here to show a few wonderfully designed Hawse Fairleads (like the Factor 55 and X-Line Hawse Fairleads). I can't even endorse the WARN Hawse Fairleads since it has a small (semi-sharp) ridge inside the fairlead opening (this area should be completely smooth). The WARN Hawse Fairleads do "scrape" Synthetic Rope winch line - degrading it over time. Also, most Hawse Fairleads on the market, like the ones you show in the video, are WAY to "thin" (narrow) in thickness - very poor rope radius. The best Hawse Fairleads are THICK with NO sharp ridges inside the fairlead itself. The X-Line Hawse I have is 5 cm thick! The ones you show are probably 2 cm thick or thinner - very poor rope radius. This, in and of itself, creates wear on the Synthetic Rope winch line. A thicker fairlead allows for a more gradual bend/radius. I run a NEW, undamaged (read: never been used with Steel Cable) Roller Fairlead with Synthetic Rope on my Jeep TJ and a Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead on my giant PowerWagon. I don't get ANY rope damage when angled winching with my Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead. Also, you mention it, but I’d emphasize even stronger that if one switches from Steel Cable to Synthetic Rope winch line, that user MUST replace their Roller Fairlead if it has ANY burrs, nicks, scrapes, or deformations on the rollers from use with Steel Cable winch line. Cheers.
Im switching my wire rope to synthetic and was going to switch my roller fairlead to a hawse, but only because of my ignorance. Ill have you know that you have taken some of my ignorance away with this video and I will not be "rolling with a hawse" Thank you.
Wow love your videos and explanations - I’ve learnt quite a few things and feel much more confident to carry out winching a lot safer which is the number one priority. I’ve also learnt how to winch and make my gear last a lot longer. Big fan. You can see the rope really hurting over that hawse - the rollers really are a no brainer with rope, it’s really looking after your equipment. Cheers🍻🍻
I totally agree. I have not done any testing of this theory, unlike yourself. However, logic has always said to me that rollers would have far less drag/friction, which equals less stress, better pulling power and less wear on all components. Now you have re-enforced my belief. I think that things like the static hause come about by companies trying to improve profit margin. They then popularize the idea and people buy them without any thought, which perpetuates the myth that they are equal or better to rollers. "They have to be good/better because all the companies are moving away from rollers and using a static hause" which of course is just not the case, they are not better or equal. Thank you for an excellent video...
Well done! A side by side video would really hammer the point home! If only there were a roller fairlead with a synthetic guide built in under it... patent!
There needs to be maintenance or replacement to the hawse after a period of time, especially a quick inspection and wipe after each off roading. If it's banged up then you have issues.
I feel that the flattening of the rope would be similar between the hawse and roller. Thus would not cause much difference. Although I absolutely agree that the hawse will create a lot of friction and the effect of grit getting stuck into the soft alloy surface makes it even more abrasive. The "issue" of the rope coming off the roller and wedging between the rollers can be easily fixed as you said by reducing the side angle of tension which is more effective for the winch or by engineering the side rollers to have more of an overlap to the horizontal rollers, stopping the rope reach the end, or putting a slight flare on each end of the roller. I would run rollers with rope, it just makes sense too.
In the pros-cons of synth rope you forgot to mention you get same pulling force of the wire but with a slightly larger diameter, it means the winch will work a little bit harder especially in the last layer. Great video tho, I’ll still use rollers! Edit: I’ll recommend to y’all using rollers with brass bushings, BA makes good stuff!
I'm using steel cable on my winch, a snatch block on hard pulls. I always thought rollers would be better for rope due to friction, if I was to switch to rope I would still use the same roller fairlead but file off any burrs or use my polisher to dress it, taking care not to thin the roller.
I don't have a winch yet but I've been looking at them. I wondered why rollers wouldn't work better than a Hawes. Thanks for a great video. I've been looking for the marketing angle for Hawse I wonder if it's because then those who are converting will have to buy a hawse and it'll be cheaper to sell a winch with a Hawse. Sometimes I can be too cynical.
I had off-angle pulls cause my rope to pinch into the edge of my rollers and cut my rope. So it can happen. It was not a normal pull, though, and was angled hard to one side and steeply up at the same time. So, it was a terrible pull to start with and, I think, a rare situation. I feel there are decently large differences in the tolerances (space) between the rollers and the carriers among manufacturers and that may explain the difference in our experiences. I think some manufacturers have far too much slop in their manufacturing because, with wire rope, it worked "good enough." I am sure, when made with closer tolerances, rollers should work more in keeping with your experience and less with mine. BTW-great video, as usual.
Rope getting caught in roller corners may be a bigger problem in "flat" roller designs with short vertical elements. Long stacked vertical rollers like you have (as standard on many roller fairleads) seem less likely to face this issue.
Where I go I need something to pull me over rocks and through dirty places. I also have to pull dead fall off the road at times so I am sticking with wire rope. I like the safety aspect of synthetic rope but for my application I am staying with cable to get me home.
Interesting test. I've been told (but always found it suspect) that rollers would damage synthetic ropes. Your experience and subsequent test do a good job of refuting that claim.
@@L2SFBC Rolling on just 1 roller is clearly better than a Hawse. So if there was a problem, it would have to surface during the very condition in which you broke the roller - namely in the corner. One could question if the rope's contact with TWO surfaces, perpendicular and in close proximity (~2 inches) to each other, somehow lead to more abrasion or stress than a single contact surface. I can imagine one possibility....consider your video...the rope first contacts the SIDE roller at a point that is well below the passage defined by the BOTTOM roller. As the rope is drawn in, the side roller rotates, and the rope is forced UP the side roller before continuing to the bottom roller. So, here's the difference: For the Hawse roller, all slide induced abrasion occurs in a direction collinear .to the rope fibers. In contrast, when the rope is in the corner of a set of rollers, the rope experiences a component of sliding abrasion the is PERPENDICULAR to the rope's fibers
@@L2SFBC I agree. I just 'dreamed-up' a possible scenario. It is plausible though that dragging a rope sideways across an abrading surface is worse than dragging/abrading it lengthwise
@@L2SFBC So, if this happens to be an issue, a partial solution would be to make CONICAL rollers (i.e. their diameter is smaller in the middle and flares out towards the ends) (side rollers only)
I thank you for explaining this and well explained. As long as the rollers are smooth and rolling it will be least resistance. It is a bearing, up, down, left, right and diagonally . I was wondering why the synthetic came with a one piece fareleed. I will be using rollers when get my winch and replace it with nylon rope.
So I run a steel hawse fairlead on a steel cable. It has a larger bend radius than the ones you showed. I do it for the reliability. The previous roller fairlead I had just wasn't smooth and almost broke. Since this video is almost a year old. Have you seen the factor 55 fairleads. They seem to have a better bend radius than the ones you showed.
To be fair wire rope can be spliced to go thru a snatch block/spool on a drum too. Not nearly as easily as synthetic rope but can be done. Forgot to say as well that love the videos keep it up, nice to see someone testing stuff in the real world.
There are much better HF available than the one shown here. With that amount of force, the rope will flatten on either option. Rollers have pinch points and are also a moving part, which cause friction which equals wear and maintenance.
I had my synthetic line snap on me last weekend. It was a desperation pull with the only tree at a terrible angle. It snapped at the hawse fairlead. I honestly don't know if a roller would have been able to save it.
Correct, if you swap out the two plastic bushings with a Delrin bushing that runs the length of the roller, it is much more stronger and will not fail in the middle of the roller.
Seems to be a design problem with the roller layout. Why can't they design the side rollers to be a few millimetres in so that the rope/cable doesn't end up off the cross rollers. Certainly has solved my problem when I switch to synthetic rope and don't need to change to a hawse. Thanks mate.
Where on earth did you find Hawse fairleads with that sharp of an edge? I have only seen them with a very nice smooth radiused edge. Yours are very squared off. That would obviously be bad, but I've never seen ones that poorly made outside of this video.
Very interesting. The broken roll is a big stress for rope or cable. Maintenance is key. How does grease affect the life of synthetic rope? The fairlead has no mechanical moving parts - cannot break. Only cleaning and polishing. Will siliconspray do welll?
Even if the rollers were scratched up, it should be easy enough to remove those rollers, put it in a lathe, and smooth them out and even polish them to a very smooth finish if desired... Not as easy with the hawse fairlead in my opinion... If you don't have a lathe, something could probably be rigged up with a drill press... Not that I've ever actually done it since I still prefer steel cable...
I'm torn on synthetic. I love the advantages, but the maintenance and abrasion factors are big drawbacks for me. I do a lot of winching in Moab over the sandstone and the syn has to be coddled so much it gets annoying. I also hate washing it out to make sure there's no sand in it. Also don't like how synthetic is a "wear and replace" item. In 20 years, I never had to put more than 2 cables on my winch. Now that I've switched over to synthetic, I've had to put 4 lines on in seven years. That's a big cost difference.
@@L2SFBC I used to take a wire brush to it once in awhile to clean the rust off, then I heard of a trick to spray vegetable oil on it in the winter, and that seemed to help a lot with rust. Did make a bit of a mess on my hands and on the spool though!
@@utahwanderlust700 I'm having similar thoughts. Arizona has a lot of lava deposits, sandstone, and granite. My principal interest in synthetic is lightening the winch to reduce weight past the front bumper, but my winch is on a removable 2" receiver so I don't have it on the truck 99% of the time and I haven't even had to use it yet. If I'm recovering *_myself_* and am not redirecting back to the front of the truck then presumably the winch cable remains basically still. If it touches-down on something that's not great, but it's not dragging across something abrasive either. if I'm recovering *_someone else_* or have had to double-back to myself then the cable is _moving_ and now I would have to be much more concerned about dragging the cable across a rock or other abrasive object. Since I remove and store my winch out of the weather, I expect a synthetic rope to survive longer than it would if left on the truck 24/7, but at the same time, the benefits of reduced weight are less important when the winch isn't on the truck 24/7. I'm a little surprised that there isn't a product similar to the liner in a MIG welding torch cable, basically a 24" or 65cm teflon-lined metal hose that would slip over the winch cable and the operator would run down the cable to sit on sharp objects like rocks to prevent the cable from directly wearing on the object.
Hi Robert. I plan on getting my first winch later this year, with synthetic rope. You've sold me on using rollers now, thanks again to the great information you provide. 👍
I'm wondering, if one is going to go to a hawse-type anyway, if it still makes more sense to use a steel or iron hawse for synthetic rope. It's not unreasonable to imagine that a softer aluminum hawse will be more likely to be chewed-into by a rope that's loaded with grit from the trail, so a rope passing over this abraded part of the hawse at a later time might then end up being damaged by that spot on the hawse on a subsequent pass. Obviously use one with a much more gentle chamfer for a less severe bend radius.
what would happen if you moved the two rollers on the side more inwards for use with winch rope not much closer together, so that the winch still winds up well? You may have to adjust the base plate for this, but because winch rope is less stiff than steel cable, it can sometimes get caught between these rollers! It is in fact a new design especially for winch rope, you must have rolls with a side plate so that this rope can never come off.
@@L2SFBC the space between the roller and the plate is too big on both sides and nothing should ever get in between, if you can fill this space with discs of this thickness, there can never be rope in between especially with thinner rope. This problem does not arise with steel cable because it is much too stiff. sorry my native language is dutch!
I have NEVER understood running a Hawse with synth rope. It makes no sense at all. Roller fairleads have come in since my first winching days in the 1970s when a Hawse was the only kind of fairlead. It was simply called a fairlead, not a Hawse. Thanx for this video. For generation X, Y, Z, Millennial, Whatever kids, geezers like me need to show them something digital to convince them rather than just a "When I was your age..." story. Rollers will bend and pinch steel cable just the same as shown in the video eating the synth rope. Winching 101 tells you to watch out for it when using rollers, which, as explained in the video, are far superior than ancient Hawse fairleads (steel and aluminum) for both steel and synth rope. A common winching situation here in the lumberjack mountains of British Columbia, Canada is going up a logging road with half a meter of snow, trying to stay on top of snowmobile tracks but inevitably falling off into the deep, despite knowing you would never make it up that mountain anyway and you'd have to turn around at some point. You now need to pull yourself around 180 degrees in basically 1 lane width. You need to pull at least 90 degrees (with a bit of reverse gear) a few times to come around to stern. Being lazy and not wanting to wade through the snow for a couple more anchor points, many will pull across the corner of the truck. Steel cable cuts bumpers and fender panels. Synthetic doesn't. But pulling synth through the Hawse at 90 degrees will OBLITERATE it in no time and likely overheat your winch to thermal shutdown. I run 2 winched vehicles at opposite ends of the size spectrum...a 7600 pound (3450 Kg) Ford Excursion and a 3600 pound (1725 kg) Suzuki Grand Vitara XL7. Both have rollers. Both have steel cable, only because the winches came with it. I'm off to buy a couple of spools of synthetic.
Thanks Stevest, appreciate that! I agree hence the video. I think hawses maybe look cool, and they do save a few pounds. But, overall I feel rollers are just better and as I showed, you have to be super silly to break them.
This is interesting , your considering friction and abrasion for a fairlead comparing to a roller lead but not for a snatch ring as compared to a pulley snatch block ??? Rollers do in fact roll , in snatch blocks also . Roller fairleads tend to get rusty with time and are harder to keep clean so I think the conventional wisdom in an aluminum solid fairlead for dyneema rope is it won't rust and get rough and it's easier to clean up if it gets dirty or fouled in any way . However a roller fairlead with stainless steel rollers would be just as good .
The snatch ring rotates, the fairlead doesn't. And the fairlead will be touched almost every time you winch, not so the ring. But yes not ideal. The problem for me is nobody makes a quality roller as I agree with your issues with it!
@@L2SFBC The ring rubs on the soft dyneema shackle . No rope rubs appreciable in a snatch block pulley . That's what I am getting at . But there is a greater potential for the rope to fall off the pulley sheave and get stuck or nicked in between the sheave and the side plate . Which has happened to me one time but it was my fault for not checking and position the ropes after slacking off and before re- winching . You are right about the rollers that's why I stayed with the alloy fairlead for dyneema rope . I have only done one recovery with my newer 10000 lb Runva on the Nissan so far but hauled a heap of firewood logs and lifted logs to chainsaw them for a few years now and the alloy fairlead is working quite well and stays quite clean .
It is. But it is a trade-off and I like the significant weight saving of 3 rings vs 3 blocks. Also the bend radius of the average hawse is terrible...rings are much better.
Would love to see some testing or hear your logic on using rollers, but replacing the rollers with rubber / synthetic style rollers like the ones created by Daystar. I just ditched my Hawse and will be adapting rollers to my 100 series and ARB bumper. >> ua-cam.com/video/lMdpO2NnVms/v-deo.html
ok, I like the video before I watched it because I have a steel cable with roller fairlead and a friend just gave me a synthetic rope because he bought the wrong one for whatever reason that I don't care about. but since my steel line is frayed a little and I don't feellike buying a hoss style fairlead. ok let me watch this video. then why do they even make the hauss style fairlead? it sounds like you are calling it a horse fairlead, lol. Im just messing with you.
@@L2SFBC I'm sure you guys poke fun at how we talk over here in the US. I actually can't tell if you are from the UK or Australia. I'm guessing UK. but it might be neither one.
Synthetic rollers? 30 year old winch, original cable, upgrading to synthetic rope with synthetic rollers... we will see if it will last another 30 years...
To my good friend Robert Pepper... I think this video is pretty good. However, a couple of important personal opinions and facts for viewers. 1) Proper LEXICON Mr. Pepper. Proper lexicon! (I realize this may be minutiae, but words are important - as a journo, you know this.). It's Winch Line, not Winch Rope. There are two types of Winch Line used recreationally: Steel Cable (not "rope" - nothing "steel" is really a "rope"), and Synthetic Rope. 2) Not all Hawse Fairleads are created/designed equally. There are some horribly designed Hawse Fairleads for sale out there. In your video you show the WORSE of the WORSE. I get it, these Hawse Fairleads DO prove your hypothesis - that good condition Roller Fairleads are better than poorly designed Hawse Fairleads. Now, read that last sentence again. "Good Condition Roller Fairleads Are Better Than Poorly Design Hawse Fairleads. This is a MOST important point; I crafted my sentence very carefully. I wish I could post some photos here to show a few wonderfully designed Hawse Fairleads (like the Factor 55 and X-Line Hawse Fairleads). I can't even endorse the WARN Hawse Fairleads since it has a small (semi-sharp) ridge inside the fairlead opening (this area should be completely smooth). The WARN Hawse Fairleads do "scrape" Synthetic Rope winch line - degrading it over time. Also, most Hawse Fairleads on the market, like the ones you show in the video, are WAY to "thin" (narrow) in thickness - very poor rope radius. The best Hawse Fairleads are THICK with NO sharp ridges inside the fairlead itself. The X-Line Hawse I have is 5 cm thick! The ones you show are probably 2 cm thick or thinner - very poor rope radius. This, in and of itself, creates wear on the Synthetic Rope winch line. A thicker fairlead allows for a more gradual bend/radius. I run a NEW, undamaged (read: never been used with Steel Cable) Roller Fairlead with Synthetic Rope on my Jeep TJ and a Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead on my giant PowerWagon. I don't get ANY rope damage when angled winching with my Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead. Also, you mention it, but I’d emphasize even stronger that if one switches from Steel Cable to Synthetic Rope winch line, that user MUST replace their Roller Fairlead if it has ANY burrs, nicks, scrapes, or deformations on the rollers from use with Steel Cable winch line. Cheers.
Thanks Bob! I think there's differing views about lexicon. Warn for example talk of steel rope and synthetic rope. Personally I think 'rope' means cords not steel. As for 'cable', that's more properly electrical related. I guess Line covers both and any others. I did say that there are varying hawses on the market, some better than others, and now I have a F55 model I'll show that in future. Some winch bars now can only take hawses, sadly in my view. Thanks again!
I just purchased a warn winch and after seeing the dangers of steel cable when they break compared to synthetic, I immediately got some synthetic rope. I kept the roller fairlead because of this video and have had no issues!
I changed to rope, from wire, 9 years ago to save some weight. I never got around to swapping out the rollers but thought about several times, but have hardly ever have the need to use the winch. I won’t bother swapping out the rollers now after watching this video. Thanks.
Appreciate the comment!
You have applied common sense logic. Something many people lack. Well done!
@Hunter1960 Er, aerospace is full of liberals.
What do you guys from the USA mean by 'liberal' ?
@@L2SFBC Good question and not easy to answer quickly. Liberal is generally associated with the Democrat party. Liberals tend to be pretty open-minded regarding social issues and mores. Civil rights is generally a key topic for liberals. However, they can be almost as capitalistic as conservatives.
The above poster was trying to use it as a slur, which is rather amusing considering it is the conservatives here who are supporting Donald Trump, a man who literally tried to subvert our last election, and if that is "using logic" then logic has a different meaning than the one I'm used to. But no mind to him, I really enjoy your videos!
Additionally, I work with plenty of millennials here at my NASA center and they are smart, hard working people.
A liberal has been defined as a person with both feet firmly set in the air. As far as our current lib president we are having sky rocketing inflation with huge cost of living expenses
Even if the rollers did not roll, the greater radius of the roller compared to most Hawes would be better in itself.
Exactly...most hawses are terrible
I am new to winch activity. I bought and rebuilt a trailer with an old Warn 8274 . After disassemble, cleaning and reassemble it works. I don't know how much power it has. I guess I'll figure it out. Thanks for the video.
I've used rollers my whole life and even before rope came out I've had the wire cable get stuck in the corners of the rollers but this was at ridiculous angles. Ever since I switched to rope I have had no problems with it getting stuck but I have broken a few rollers on hard pulls. So I'm with you and will will continue to use rollers. 👍🇺🇸
If you have concerns about burs or scars on the rollers there's an easy fix attach a scotchbrite type pad to a grinder and polish them out they will be good as new and slick as glass
Thanks good tip!
I do the same thing with my snatch blocks (used with rope in skidding logs) and the rough inside of shakles (same reason)
A good amount of the wear seen in rigging is preventable.
All synthetic rope users need to see this video. Amazing work
I agree, its like trying to move a load on square tubing compared to round stock. ✌
Hello Robert, thanks for a great video! I agree with you on the use of rollers with synthetic rope for the reasons you described. A couple of points that I'd like to add if I may: 1) Steel cable under load will unwind (much like a spring being pulled) and thus elongate. This is because of its construction being left hand lay and / or right hand lay. So when steel cable breaks it rapidly resumes its manufactured lay and this is what causes the rotational lateral whipping you describe. Synthetic rope is usually and 12 strand neutral braid and when it breaks, it recoils in the linear load direction and does not whip laterally like steel cable does, making it far safer. 2) The stowing load for steel cable is recommended at 10% of its rated capacity - very difficult to do by hand. Synthetic rope requires far less (about 100 - 150 lbs. is sufficient) and is doable by hand. 3) Roller fairleads that are poorly designed have insufficient overlap of the vertical and horizontal rollers and this can cause what happened to your rollers in the video; the synthetic rope can get caught in the edge of the horizontal roller and cause it to break. Thanks again for a great informative video. Respectfully, Chris
Thanks Chris, great extra info! I learned something! One point - on my rollers there's no overlap between the vertical and horizontal rollers, and the only reason it got caught in that corner was when I literally broke the rollers through abuse. I am not very impressed with the quality of the rollers; I think they are too heavy, too friction-y, too big and too ugly.
I'm going to write a short blog post on this and will include your comment, with credit!
@@L2SFBC Thank you Robert, that’s very kind of you Sir!
Over coffee this morning wrote it up - l2sfbc.com/rollers-are-good-for-synthetic-rope-so-maybe-reconsider-your-use-of-a-hawse/
I considered this before and thought I was the only one. So glad I found this video.
Only one what?
I have an atv and use it for plowing snow. I actually bought a warn roller fairlead (it has a larger bottom roller) because it only made sense that it was better for the synthetic rope to roll over a roller rather than drag over the hawse. That was four years ago and so far it has worked perfectly.
G'day, well funny that I should see this vid, as I have just purchased a 12k lb winch with Dyneema, and was looking at fairleads. I think you have convinced me of the roller over the Hawse, since rolling is better than dragging, esp considering how prone synth is to damage from scuffing. I have just ordered a roller and cannot expect it to be any worse than Hawse, and to the contrary. Thanks for a great video, cheers mate.
Thanks...now you will need to explain your choice every week for the rest of your life :-)
I'm glad I watched your video. I was wondering why people don't use the roller lead with rope, there's no reason not to, in-fact the roller is better. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
thanks again - nice to re-watch - noting that the commercial roller fairlead that "failed" - significant abuse as stated - is possibly a poor design (or did the geometry change when the side roller failed) with the horizontal rollers being relatively too short - the vertical rollers relatively badly located... (the line should not be able to come off the end of the horizontal rollers ).
(Failed Rollers means failed bearings in the fairlead..)
Steel rollers could easily be sleeved in HDPE tubing if worried about rope damage.
- also, unless a hawse fairlead is at least 25mm thick with well radiused lead in edge, it isn't serving any purpose other than a softer material that the line might cut into as opposed to a sharp steel edge.
Of course pulling at stupid angles causes line stackup / birds-nesting and reduces winch effectiveness. As you mentioned, a simple redirect to keep fleet angles sensible is a great idea...
(theoretically one could use an aluminium hawse on the inside of rollers - to prevent pulling against a hard steel ede in the event that a roller does catastrophically fail...)
I’m sold on rollers after your video! My thoughts were the same for rolling over instead of drag. Thank you mate!
Thanks please share :-)
This is a great review and this is my feelings also. I just ordered a synthetic rope for my truck to replace my wire rope with kinks in it along with a new roller fairlead. I have been using a synthetic rope on my ATV with a roller farelead for years connected to my 60" heavy steel snowplow. I have broken the end of the syn rope after many hours of use but always at the snatch block. When using rire rope it did the same thing also broke after time but was a real pain to repair without coming back to the shop.
I have a new winch that I got with synthetic line that I need to install on my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I will be buying a set of rollers to replace the hawse fairlead that came with the winch. Thanks!
Makes sense. When I replaced wire rope, I smoothed the rollers and they work great. It just makes sense to me.
Just adding a comment to help your algorithm. The reasons why I choose to run a syn rope and hawse are the weight savings along with the approach angle and aesthetics. I have two different categories of off-road vehicles, ones I play in which are small lightweight and large heavy work vehicles. Weight savings matter, every pound matters, in the light ones. In the heavy ones, I run wire rope and roller fairlead because longevity is more important than weight savings. It can be years between uses and I want the equipment to work when I need it, no excuses.
Thanks L Hurst, good perspective. I like the way you choose as appropriate and have reasons why, as opposed to just following the herd. That's really what I"m about, giving people information so they can make choices best for them, not just defaulting. And often that means challenging the status quo.
Thanks for all the wonderful winch videos.
I do small scale logging and use a chainsaw winch quite a bit.
The information you have provided in your winch videos is top notch, I wish I learned all this in the beginning, would have saved me a ton of money and hard work.
Thanks again!
I totally agree with you. I never understood why almost everyone insists on no rollers for synthetic rope. That never made any sense to me.
I would be interested to see what reasons people give for hawses - if they're different to the ones in the video.
@@L2SFBC I'd guess most are just repeating what they saw in someone else's video. Most probably don't know themselves.
@@dalehammond1704 Manufacturer recommended to sell more accessories? I use rollers and synthetic.
The process to manufacture a Hawse/Fairlead is significantly less complex than a roller fairlead, so the profit margin can be higher.
What ever the price of either you can be assured the person selling you a hawse with your synthetic rope is making more money off the Hawse than a roller.
True!
This has been on my mind recently thanks for posting.... Another thing to point out with using a hawse and you can see it in this video. I have a similar style bumper ( ARB ) and since it was originally made for rollers, the hawse sits so far back in the bumper. On an angled pull you can see it can contact the bumper. I want to switch over to rollers for this reason but I am concerned the rope could have issues getting pinched. This video helps show some testing. Now to figure out why a decent set of roller fairleads cost $200+ USD.
I really love this video. I’ve often wondered about rollers with rope it makes more sense to me to use rollers instead of the hause fare leed. I’m putting a 12000 pound winch on my trailer so I will be using rollers . Thanks for this information.
Glad it was helpful!
I totally agree with you the rollers are the best way to go and will prolong the rope's life.
I made the switch to synthetic rope and also kept the roller fairlead for all the reasons you mentioned in the video.
Hard to beat a roller fairlead, they’re made of steel and if used properly are nearly indestructible compared to aluminum hawsers that are all too often easily damaged.
Great video with excellent points, debunking commonly heard things. I'm replacing my steel rope with synthetic and roller fairlead with aluminum hawse strictly for weight savings. My last Jeep was way over GVWR and I don't want to abuse my new Jeep in the same manner. I respect that a roller fairlead is the better option in some ways, but I feel that for the very rare use mine will see (4 in 10 years? usually just use recovery straps), I can live with the inferior fairlead.
Solid reasons, I like it. There's never an never, but I like to challenge the established thinking if there's no apparent basis for it.
Good afternoon from Spain.
On many occasions I have wondered the reason for the exclusive binomial between cable and rollers, as well as the exclusive binomial between rope and fairlead (hawse); I have always understood the need for the first pair, but not the second, except for aesthetic reasons and because the rollers protrude from the front of the car and are more exposed to impacts.
Your video shows the pros of rollers against the fairlead (hawse).
The jamming problem that you deliberately cause is because the angle is abnormal and high, even more so when dealing with the retrieving vehicle (the vehicle does not move); If that angle had occurred in a self-recovering vehicle, the nose of the car would tend to pivot and reposition itself when it begins to move and then decrease the angle.
In any case, in order to eliminate this angle, an anchor point with a snatch block would surely be used.
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with the entire 4x4 community.
Best regards.
Thank you! And yes you're right, you'd never winch like that in reality.
He stated this in the video!
Great vid and completely answered my questions about this subject. I will keep my hawse just in case my rollers ever rust or flake chrome but until then... the rollers stay with the rope!
Glad it helped! Always, always challenge the status quo. There's so much in the car world people just do, and don't really think about because it's always been done that way. And not all products are properly developed.
My current truck came with synthetic rope, steel hook and aluminum hawse. The radius on the hawse is larger than the ones you show, but still less than the rollers. While winching in from the cab at the end of a recovery, i couldnt see the hook arriving at the hawse and when the winch took up the strain it gouged hunks out of the aluminum. If i hadnt done a load of filing and sanding it would have ruined the rope in no time. I've since fitted a factor55 billet aluminum Splicer thimble to replace the hook so it can't happen again - it is excellent with soft shackles. Rollers would have solved this, of course, but i had been told not to use them!
why the roller hate from people, I don't understand
Thank you for this video. I have always used rollers with the cable. Just upgraded to the rope for safety reasons. I was wandering why people use the HAWS fairlead with synthetic winch rope. With your video I know why I need to install the HAWS instead of the rollers. I only plan on using my winch under a load. When I am stuck. So I do not want a failure. Thank you again.
Glad I could help, please share!
Good job ive always believed most synthetic ropes failed at the fairlead.
Great demonstration, The jamming issue can be avoided and make the roller superior to Hawse. Jamming happens due to side flex of the roller's Cage which is made of steel, thicker = heavier weight. But if manufacturer make it as one piece forged or CNC cut out of 6061-t6 aluminum, it would be without flex and rollers should be 6 instead of 4, two extra vertical inside the Cage at corners. It could be expensive compared to Hawes out of manufacturing perspective, but superior.
I took the cable off and weighed it before changing over to synthetic rope. Cable weight was 10.8 kg. Synthetic was only 1.7kg.!!
Yes, great difference...and as it's ahead of the front axle, even more weight than that off the front axle!
Great info.
Glad it was helpful!
I've had rollers break a 3/16" syn line on an atv. When I called the maker of the line (Custom Splice in Kansas), he said that the reason rollers often break syn line is because of the added distance that rollers have from the front of the spool, which gives the line more opportunity to get into the corners if the rollers. When you switch to a Hawse, the distance is less.
I'm not sure how that works, but I'm buying a Hawse to see if it works better.
I can't see how that's different to a wire rope?
@@L2SFBC The wire rope won't get cut in the corners as easy as the synthetic.
Sounds like the supplier placing blame anywhere but his product. Go buy a different rope, from a supplier that stands by their product.
Also if you’re regularly overloading your equipment by higher rated equipment.
Actually the further away the fairlead is the better as the angle of rope to winch drum won’t be as acute when doing pulls that have side angle in them. Think about a recovery point off to the left of vehicle, it will keep the rope to the left side of fairlead. The further away the winch drum is the less the angles will be and better chance of it spooling across the drum and not birds nesting on one end. General rule of thumb for having the rope self wind onto drum neatly is to have the fairlead 5x the width of drum away from it.
Thanks husq!
Some good information. Thanks and greetings from East Texas
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks mate, I got a brand new rope and I wanted to change my roller fairlead, so I dont have to now
No need at all!
To my good friend Robert Pepper... I think this video is pretty good. However, a couple of important personal opinions and facts for viewers. 1) Proper LEXICON Mr. Pepper. Proper lexicon! (I realize this may be minutiae, but words are important - as a journo, you know this.). It's Winch Line, not Winch Rope. There are two types of Winch Line used recreationally: Steel Cable (not "rope" - nothing "steel" is really a "rope"), and Synthetic Rope. 2) Not all Hawse Fairleads are created/designed equally. There are some horribly designed Hawse Fairleads for sale out there. In your video you show the WORSE of the WORSE. I get it, these Hawse Fairleads DO prove your hypothesis - that good condition Roller Fairleads are better than poorly designed Hawse Fairleads. Now, read that last sentence again. "Good Condition Roller Fairleads Are Better Than Poorly Design Hawse Fairleads. This is a MOST important point; I crafted my sentence very carefully. I wish I could post some photos here to show a few wonderfully designed Hawse Fairleads (like the Factor 55 and X-Line Hawse Fairleads). I can't even endorse the WARN Hawse Fairleads since it has a small (semi-sharp) ridge inside the fairlead opening (this area should be completely smooth). The WARN Hawse Fairleads do "scrape" Synthetic Rope winch line - degrading it over time. Also, most Hawse Fairleads on the market, like the ones you show in the video, are WAY to "thin" (narrow) in thickness - very poor rope radius. The best Hawse Fairleads are THICK with NO sharp ridges inside the fairlead itself. The X-Line Hawse I have is 5 cm thick! The ones you show are probably 2 cm thick or thinner - very poor rope radius. This, in and of itself, creates wear on the Synthetic Rope winch line. A thicker fairlead allows for a more gradual bend/radius. I run a NEW, undamaged (read: never been used with Steel Cable) Roller Fairlead with Synthetic Rope on my Jeep TJ and a Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead on my giant PowerWagon. I don't get ANY rope damage when angled winching with my Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead. Also, you mention it, but I’d emphasize even stronger that if one switches from Steel Cable to Synthetic Rope winch line, that user MUST replace their Roller Fairlead if it has ANY burrs, nicks, scrapes, or deformations on the rollers from use with Steel Cable winch line. Cheers.
Im switching my wire rope to synthetic and was going to switch my roller fairlead to a hawse, but only because of my ignorance. Ill have you know that you have taken some of my ignorance away with this video and I will not be "rolling with a hawse"
Thank you.
Thank you!!
Wow love your videos and explanations - I’ve learnt quite a few things and feel much more confident to carry out winching a lot safer which is the number one priority. I’ve also learnt how to winch and make my gear last a lot longer. Big fan. You can see the rope really hurting over that hawse - the rollers really are a no brainer with rope, it’s really looking after your equipment. Cheers🍻🍻
Thanks I truly appreciate the support!
I totally agree. I have not done any testing of this theory, unlike yourself. However, logic has always said to me that rollers would have far less drag/friction, which equals less stress, better pulling power and less wear on all components. Now you have re-enforced my belief. I think that things like the static hause come about by companies trying to improve profit margin. They then popularize the idea and people buy them without any thought, which perpetuates the myth that they are equal or better to rollers. "They have to be good/better because all the companies are moving away from rollers and using a static hause" which of course is just not the case, they are not better or equal. Thank you for an excellent video...
Thanks...always question why! The hawse really is just a fashion thing. Wish I could find a quality set of lightweight rollers.
Well done! A side by side video would really hammer the point home!
If only there were a roller fairlead with a synthetic guide built in under it... patent!
Yes...the rollers I am using are poor quality. Unnecessarily heavy and relatively weak. But still better than a hawse!
There us a company that makes poly replacement rollers. I can't think of the name right now but I'm sure you can search it on the internet
There needs to be maintenance or replacement to the hawse after a period of time, especially a quick inspection and wipe after each off roading. If it's banged up then you have issues.
I feel that the flattening of the rope would be similar between the hawse and roller. Thus would not cause much difference. Although I absolutely agree that the hawse will create a lot of friction and the effect of grit getting stuck into the soft alloy surface makes it even more abrasive.
The "issue" of the rope coming off the roller and wedging between the rollers can be easily fixed as you said by reducing the side angle of tension which is more effective for the winch or by engineering the side rollers to have more of an overlap to the horizontal rollers, stopping the rope reach the end, or putting a slight flare on each end of the roller. I would run rollers with rope, it just makes sense too.
Thanks David, good points
In the pros-cons of synth rope you forgot to mention you get same pulling force of the wire but with a slightly larger diameter, it means the winch will work a little bit harder especially in the last layer. Great video tho, I’ll still use rollers!
Edit: I’ll recommend to y’all using rollers with brass bushings, BA makes good stuff!
Thanks - who is BA? Yes the rope diameter is greater than cable, but it squashes flatter.
@@L2SFBC BA is brand that makes fair leads for towing operators!
I installed sealed bearings in mine
In My rollers
I'm using steel cable on my winch, a snatch block on hard pulls. I always thought rollers would be better for rope due to friction, if I was to switch to rope I would still use the same roller fairlead but file off any burrs or use my polisher to dress it, taking care not to thin the roller.
Yep...or just get new rollers. Plenty around for free as people replace them at least where I am.
As long as roller are not chewed up by wire they work great.
I don't have a winch yet but I've been looking at them. I wondered why rollers wouldn't work better than a Hawes. Thanks for a great video. I've been looking for the marketing angle for Hawse I wonder if it's because then those who are converting will have to buy a hawse and it'll be cheaper to sell a winch with a Hawse. Sometimes I can be too cynical.
I had off-angle pulls cause my rope to pinch into the edge of my rollers and cut my rope. So it can happen. It was not a normal pull, though, and was angled hard to one side and steeply up at the same time. So, it was a terrible pull to start with and, I think, a rare situation. I feel there are decently large differences in the tolerances (space) between the rollers and the carriers among manufacturers and that may explain the difference in our experiences. I think some manufacturers have far too much slop in their manufacturing because, with wire rope, it worked "good enough." I am sure, when made with closer tolerances, rollers should work more in keeping with your experience and less with mine. BTW-great video, as usual.
Thanks Richard, good information for us all.
Thanks for the explanation!
Glad it was helpful!
Makes a lot of sense (and I don't argue with physics!)... thank you.
You don't but plenty do!
I Imagine the hause is much cheaper as part of the kit that comes with a new winch too. Might be part of the reason they so common
Rope getting caught in roller corners may be a bigger problem in "flat" roller designs with short vertical elements. Long stacked vertical rollers like you have (as standard on many roller fairleads) seem less likely to face this issue.
Would be nice to see a fairlead that moves a roller like a fish casting reel, that way it doesn’t bunch up if yoy can’t change the angle
Where I go I need something to pull me over rocks and through dirty places. I also have to pull dead fall off the road at times so I am sticking with wire rope. I like the safety aspect of synthetic rope but for my application I am staying with cable to get me home.
Makes sense!
Tanks for all this !! Great stuff , keep on rolling !
Interesting test. I've been told (but always found it suspect) that rollers would damage synthetic ropes. Your experience and subsequent test do a good job of refuting that claim.
I would like to know how people think rollers, which rotate, and have a large bend radius can possibly damage rope????
@@L2SFBC Rolling on just 1 roller is clearly better than a Hawse. So if there was a problem, it would have to surface during the very condition in which you broke the roller - namely in the corner. One could question if the rope's contact with TWO surfaces, perpendicular and in close proximity (~2 inches) to each other, somehow lead to more abrasion or stress than a single contact surface. I can imagine one possibility....consider your video...the rope first contacts the SIDE roller at a point that is well below the passage defined by the BOTTOM roller. As the rope is drawn in, the side roller rotates, and the rope is forced UP the side roller before continuing to the bottom roller. So, here's the difference: For the Hawse roller, all slide induced abrasion occurs in a direction collinear .to the rope fibers. In contrast, when the rope is in the corner of a set of rollers, the rope experiences a component of sliding abrasion the is PERPENDICULAR to the rope's fibers
Yes but it's only momentary. Then the rollers roll. But overall I think it hard to argue that rollers aren't more efficient and easier on the rope.
@@L2SFBC I agree. I just 'dreamed-up' a possible scenario. It is plausible though that dragging a rope sideways across an abrading surface is worse than dragging/abrading it lengthwise
@@L2SFBC So, if this happens to be an issue, a partial solution would be to make CONICAL rollers (i.e. their diameter is smaller in the middle and flares out towards the ends) (side rollers only)
Love those wheels
I thank you for explaining this and well explained. As long as the rollers are smooth and rolling it will be least resistance. It is a bearing, up, down, left, right and diagonally . I was wondering why the synthetic came with a one piece fareleed. I will be using rollers when get my winch and replace it with nylon rope.
Thanks! Please share 👍
So I run a steel hawse fairlead on a steel cable. It has a larger bend radius than the ones you showed. I do it for the reliability. The previous roller fairlead I had just wasn't smooth and almost broke. Since this video is almost a year old. Have you seen the factor 55 fairleads. They seem to have a better bend radius than the ones you showed.
Yes I have one and it is one of the better hawse for that reason.
To be fair wire rope can be spliced to go thru a snatch block/spool on a drum too. Not nearly as easily as synthetic rope but can be done.
Forgot to say as well that love the videos keep it up, nice to see someone testing stuff in the real world.
There are much better HF available than the one shown here. With that amount of force, the rope will flatten on either option. Rollers have pinch points and are also a moving part, which cause friction which equals wear and maintenance.
I had my synthetic line snap on me last weekend. It was a desperation pull with the only tree at a terrible angle. It snapped at the hawse fairlead. I honestly don't know if a roller would have been able to save it.
Moving parts require maintenance or the break.
This was really helpful 👍🏼 thanks
very well explained 👍👍
Thanks please share 👍
Rollers are far superior, I can't imagine who ever thought the hause would be better.
You can also change the actual rollers to Delrin.
Tell me more please...
Correct, if you swap out the two plastic bushings with a Delrin bushing that runs the length of the roller, it is much more stronger and will not fail in the middle of the roller.
Seems to be a design problem with the roller layout. Why can't they design the side rollers to be a few millimetres in so that the rope/cable doesn't end up off the cross rollers. Certainly has solved my problem when I switch to synthetic rope and don't need to change to a hawse. Thanks mate.
Excellent, thanks
Why did we change to Haase rollers with synthetic rope in the first place?
Really just need a fairlead with solid steel rollers.
Where on earth did you find Hawse fairleads with that sharp of an edge? I have only seen them with a very nice smooth radiused edge. Yours are very squared off. That would obviously be bad, but I've never seen ones that poorly made outside of this video.
They're quite common
Great video. Thank you
Thanks!
I remember the first time i used a wire winch and messed up my fingers when I found a few metal burrs. 😳
Very interesting. The broken roll is a big stress for rope or cable. Maintenance is key. How does grease affect the life of synthetic rope? The fairlead has no mechanical moving parts - cannot break. Only cleaning and polishing. Will siliconspray do welll?
No need to grease, just keep it clean and undamaged.
Even if the rollers were scratched up, it should be easy enough to remove those rollers, put it in a lathe, and smooth them out and even polish them to a very smooth finish if desired... Not as easy with the hawse fairlead in my opinion... If you don't have a lathe, something could probably be rigged up with a drill press... Not that I've ever actually done it since I still prefer steel cable...
Good point, but as they're so cheap probably easier to replace!
When your rollers get scuffed up, do you dress them up with files, sandpaper, steel wool, lathe or do you replace them?
Replace
I'm torn on synthetic. I love the advantages, but the maintenance and abrasion factors are big drawbacks for me. I do a lot of winching in Moab over the sandstone and the syn has to be coddled so much it gets annoying. I also hate washing it out to make sure there's no sand in it.
Also don't like how synthetic is a "wear and replace" item. In 20 years, I never had to put more than 2 cables on my winch. Now that I've switched over to synthetic, I've had to put 4 lines on in seven years. That's a big cost difference.
Totally understandable! You must have taken good care of that wire rope too!
@@L2SFBC I used to take a wire brush to it once in awhile to clean the rust off, then I heard of a trick to spray vegetable oil on it in the winter, and that seemed to help a lot with rust. Did make a bit of a mess on my hands and on the spool though!
@@utahwanderlust700 I'm having similar thoughts. Arizona has a lot of lava deposits, sandstone, and granite. My principal interest in synthetic is lightening the winch to reduce weight past the front bumper, but my winch is on a removable 2" receiver so I don't have it on the truck 99% of the time and I haven't even had to use it yet.
If I'm recovering *_myself_* and am not redirecting back to the front of the truck then presumably the winch cable remains basically still. If it touches-down on something that's not great, but it's not dragging across something abrasive either. if I'm recovering *_someone else_* or have had to double-back to myself then the cable is _moving_ and now I would have to be much more concerned about dragging the cable across a rock or other abrasive object.
Since I remove and store my winch out of the weather, I expect a synthetic rope to survive longer than it would if left on the truck 24/7, but at the same time, the benefits of reduced weight are less important when the winch isn't on the truck 24/7.
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a product similar to the liner in a MIG welding torch cable, basically a 24" or 65cm teflon-lined metal hose that would slip over the winch cable and the operator would run down the cable to sit on sharp objects like rocks to prevent the cable from directly wearing on the object.
Hi Robert. I plan on getting my first winch later this year, with synthetic rope. You've sold me on using rollers now, thanks again to the great information you provide. 👍
Glad to help!
I'm wondering, if one is going to go to a hawse-type anyway, if it still makes more sense to use a steel or iron hawse for synthetic rope. It's not unreasonable to imagine that a softer aluminum hawse will be more likely to be chewed-into by a rope that's loaded with grit from the trail, so a rope passing over this abraded part of the hawse at a later time might then end up being damaged by that spot on the hawse on a subsequent pass.
Obviously use one with a much more gentle chamfer for a less severe bend radius.
Good points not thought of that!
Friction generates heat. Heat is not a friend to synthetic. Rollers all the way.
Speaking my language Doc!
what would happen if you moved the two rollers on the side more inwards for use with winch rope not much closer together, so that the winch still winds up well?
You may have to adjust the base plate for this, but because winch rope is less stiff than steel cable, it can sometimes get caught between these rollers!
It is in fact a new design especially for winch rope, you must have rolls with a side plate so that this rope can never come off.
Not sure what you mean?
@@L2SFBC
the space between the roller and the plate is too big on both sides and nothing should ever get in between, if you can fill this space with discs of this thickness, there can never be rope in between especially with thinner rope.
This problem does not arise with steel cable because it is much too stiff.
sorry my native language is dutch!
Ok thanks
I have NEVER understood running a Hawse with synth rope. It makes no sense at all.
Roller fairleads have come in since my first winching days in the 1970s when a Hawse was the only kind of fairlead. It was simply called a fairlead, not a Hawse.
Thanx for this video. For generation X, Y, Z, Millennial, Whatever kids, geezers like me need to show them something digital to convince them rather than just a "When I was your age..." story.
Rollers will bend and pinch steel cable just the same as shown in the video eating the synth rope. Winching 101 tells you to watch out for it when using rollers, which, as explained in the video, are far superior than ancient Hawse fairleads (steel and aluminum) for both steel and synth rope.
A common winching situation here in the lumberjack mountains of British Columbia, Canada is going up a logging road with half a meter of snow, trying to stay on top of snowmobile tracks but inevitably falling off into the deep, despite knowing you would never make it up that mountain anyway and you'd have to turn around at some point.
You now need to pull yourself around 180 degrees in basically 1 lane width. You need to pull at least 90 degrees (with a bit of reverse gear) a few times to come around to stern. Being lazy and not wanting to wade through the snow for a couple more anchor points, many will pull across the corner of the truck. Steel cable cuts bumpers and fender panels. Synthetic doesn't. But pulling synth through the Hawse at 90 degrees will OBLITERATE it in no time and likely overheat your winch to thermal shutdown.
I run 2 winched vehicles at opposite ends of the size spectrum...a 7600 pound (3450 Kg) Ford Excursion and a 3600 pound (1725 kg) Suzuki Grand Vitara XL7. Both have rollers. Both have steel cable, only because the winches came with it.
I'm off to buy a couple of spools of synthetic.
Thanks Stevest, appreciate that! I agree hence the video. I think hawses maybe look cool, and they do save a few pounds. But, overall I feel rollers are just better and as I showed, you have to be super silly to break them.
how easy is it to swap the hawse out for the rollers? I'm thinking it just depends on the setup.
Two bolts and done provided it fits
@@L2SFBC thank you
100% right
I love the wheels on the FJ, anyone know what kind they are?
This is interesting , your considering friction and abrasion for a fairlead comparing to a roller lead but not for a snatch ring as compared to a pulley snatch block ??? Rollers do in fact roll , in snatch blocks also . Roller fairleads tend to get rusty with time and are harder to keep clean so I think the conventional wisdom in an aluminum solid fairlead for dyneema rope is it won't rust and get rough and it's easier to clean up if it gets dirty or fouled in any way . However a roller fairlead with stainless steel rollers would be just as good .
The snatch ring rotates, the fairlead doesn't. And the fairlead will be touched almost every time you winch, not so the ring. But yes not ideal. The problem for me is nobody makes a quality roller as I agree with your issues with it!
@@L2SFBC
The ring rubs on the soft dyneema shackle . No rope rubs appreciable in a snatch block pulley . That's what I am getting at .
But there is a greater potential for the rope to fall off the pulley sheave and get stuck or nicked in between the sheave and the side plate . Which has happened to me one time but it was my fault for not checking and position the ropes after slacking off and before re- winching .
You are right about the rollers that's why I stayed with the alloy fairlead for dyneema rope . I have only done one recovery with my newer 10000 lb Runva on the Nissan so far but hauled a heap of firewood logs and lifted logs to chainsaw them for a few years now and the alloy fairlead is working quite well and stays quite clean .
I had rollers after a lota miles they’ll rattle from wear
Even if they didn't roll, what's the difference between that and a hawse?
Greater bend radius
This is exactly why I’m still sus about recovery rings. All that force of rotating metal against synthetic rope just has to be a bad idea. Thoughts?
It works...I use them!
@@L2SFBC That seems a bit contradictory to your roller vs hawse theory. A snatch block roller rolls with the rope.
It is. But it is a trade-off and I like the significant weight saving of 3 rings vs 3 blocks. Also the bend radius of the average hawse is terrible...rings are much better.
Im a manly man and dont get stuck but use a turfer to help out ladies like you lot from time to time😂
I am going to get a Big Hawse and pretend I am a cowboy from Texas. 🤠
Send us a pic then ;-)
@@L2SFBC Totally kidding rollers are the way
Speaking of snatch block syn work good with block?
Yes definitely, can take a smaller radius of sheave than wire.
ua-cam.com/video/Krotkb_aS0g/v-deo.html
Would love to see some testing or hear your logic on using rollers, but replacing the rollers with rubber / synthetic style rollers like the ones created by Daystar. I just ditched my Hawse and will be adapting rollers to my 100 series and ARB bumper.
>> ua-cam.com/video/lMdpO2NnVms/v-deo.html
Interesting, not seen those, would like to try them!
The only issue presented here with rollers would be solved by better engineering.
I have a solution, check back here in 2022.
Agreed...those rollers are too heavy, too much friction and generally poor. But they still work well!
You seem to have dropped the letter T from the alphabet there Tiger. Or should that be Diger?
maybe you're righd
@@L2SFBC 😂😂
ok, I like the video before I watched it because I have a steel cable with roller fairlead and a friend just gave me a synthetic rope because he bought the wrong one for whatever reason that I don't care about. but since my steel line is frayed a little and I don't feellike buying a hoss style fairlead. ok let me watch this video. then why do they even make the hauss style fairlead? it sounds like you are calling it a horse fairlead, lol. Im just messing with you.
Yes my accent had been the source of much merriment in the USA 😁
@@L2SFBC I'm sure you guys poke fun at how we talk over here in the US. I actually can't tell if you are from the UK or Australia. I'm guessing UK. but it might be neither one.
My accent is both of them plus others 👍
Synthetic rollers? 30 year old winch, original cable, upgrading to synthetic rope with synthetic rollers... we will see if it will last another 30 years...
😎👍🍻
To my good friend Robert Pepper... I think this video is pretty good. However, a couple of important personal opinions and facts for viewers. 1) Proper LEXICON Mr. Pepper. Proper lexicon! (I realize this may be minutiae, but words are important - as a journo, you know this.). It's Winch Line, not Winch Rope. There are two types of Winch Line used recreationally: Steel Cable (not "rope" - nothing "steel" is really a "rope"), and Synthetic Rope. 2) Not all Hawse Fairleads are created/designed equally. There are some horribly designed Hawse Fairleads for sale out there. In your video you show the WORSE of the WORSE. I get it, these Hawse Fairleads DO prove your hypothesis - that good condition Roller Fairleads are better than poorly designed Hawse Fairleads. Now, read that last sentence again. "Good Condition Roller Fairleads Are Better Than Poorly Design Hawse Fairleads. This is a MOST important point; I crafted my sentence very carefully. I wish I could post some photos here to show a few wonderfully designed Hawse Fairleads (like the Factor 55 and X-Line Hawse Fairleads). I can't even endorse the WARN Hawse Fairleads since it has a small (semi-sharp) ridge inside the fairlead opening (this area should be completely smooth). The WARN Hawse Fairleads do "scrape" Synthetic Rope winch line - degrading it over time. Also, most Hawse Fairleads on the market, like the ones you show in the video, are WAY to "thin" (narrow) in thickness - very poor rope radius. The best Hawse Fairleads are THICK with NO sharp ridges inside the fairlead itself. The X-Line Hawse I have is 5 cm thick! The ones you show are probably 2 cm thick or thinner - very poor rope radius. This, in and of itself, creates wear on the Synthetic Rope winch line. A thicker fairlead allows for a more gradual bend/radius. I run a NEW, undamaged (read: never been used with Steel Cable) Roller Fairlead with Synthetic Rope on my Jeep TJ and a Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead on my giant PowerWagon. I don't get ANY rope damage when angled winching with my Factor 55 Hawse Fairlead. Also, you mention it, but I’d emphasize even stronger that if one switches from Steel Cable to Synthetic Rope winch line, that user MUST replace their Roller Fairlead if it has ANY burrs, nicks, scrapes, or deformations on the rollers from use with Steel Cable winch line. Cheers.
Thanks Bob! I think there's differing views about lexicon. Warn for example talk of steel rope and synthetic rope. Personally I think 'rope' means cords not steel. As for 'cable', that's more properly electrical related. I guess Line covers both and any others. I did say that there are varying hawses on the market, some better than others, and now I have a F55 model I'll show that in future. Some winch bars now can only take hawses, sadly in my view. Thanks again!