Hello are you de-voicing the sound z in the word ( crackers ) to to S sound or you start the sound with z sound and end with s sound. - if yes is that in every plural words the end with s and the letter before voiced. ( kitties ) ( guys ) ( pictures ) is that more in western. Thank you Mrs. Jim.
The Z does tend to devoice, primarily when it either ends the phrase, or when what follows it starts with an unvoiced sound. (It tends to stay more Z-like when what follows it is a voiced consonant or a vowel.) It tends to have a bit of voiced quality to it before it devoices, but in some people's speech, they can't distinguish between a Z and an S in a final position on a word.
I love every single one of your videos, Jim, always spot on. Now let me tell you my take on the "Dark L": the IPA has both velarized and pharyngealized L's because it depends on the vowel that comes right before it, e.g.: ball would be [bɑ̹lˤ], old [o̞lˠd̚] and table either [ˈtʰe̞ɪ̯.bl̩ˠ] or [ˈtʰe̞ɪ̯.bl̩ˤ] depending on the speaker. I think that's why some people produce their syllabic L's with sounds that resembles an "ull" sound as in "bull", while others go with "ol" as in "old". What you think?
I'll buy that. I tend to go with the wavy line "velarized or pharyngealized" as the generic way of expressing it, but in the same way the /l/ affects the vowel, the vowel (front vs back or high vs low, for example) could affect the /l/.
It's hard to say, really... The IPA is a tool, so people can use it in slightly different ways. I would use the symbol that it feels most like for you, and then tweak it with the diacritic. That is the key to using diacritics, to me - and that's how I think they are more helpful in figuring out accents.
Great video. Interesting topic. Do you know what it's called when the d "disappears" in many midwest speakers pronunciations? I've noticed that it's there at the beginning of words like "dairy" or "David" but words like "yard" and "Jordan" it seems to vanish and those words are pronounced, "yarr" and "Jorr-en". I've just called that the midwest accent but not sure how that would be represented in IPA.
The D isn't disappearing - it's just realized in another way. These are both examples where I'd say the D is stopped at the same time you are stopping a glottal, and then in the second example, it gets released nasally. (Look back at part 2 for some details on this.) Thanks!
Would you consider the apical plain T [t̺] to be a retracted version of the dental one [t̪] and the latter being an advanced version of the former in such a way that the dental could be transcribed as a "pushed forward T" [t̟] to an American that's learning a, let's say, New York Latino accent, and the apical as a "pulled back T" [t̠] to a Latin American learning English? Or do you think it's possible to produce the apical without retracting the tongue if you're coming from the dental?
Well, just about anything is possible... I'm not sure what you mean by your final question, actually - the idea of "coming from the dental" is what I'm unclear on. I think you could be apical and dental - one is about the part of the tongue and the other about the destination of the tongue. I find I go a tiny bit more apical for NYC Latino, as opposed to a bit more laminal when I'm speaking Spanish with my Colombian Spanish teacher, emulating her. I think you could use advanced/retracted or apical/laminal to express the idea - but which one makes it clearer what is happening? My guess is apical/laminal. (This is all just my take - I'm not a linguist!)
@@AccentHelp you might not be a linguist, but you know a lot of things and have a huge experience, so I guess you're right and I agree with you on everything. By the idea of "coming from the dental" I meant "if you take the T as being dental for nature, would the apical T just be a retracted T?", Ok, I tried to be very specific now, but that's basically what I meant. I asked that because I feel like in order to make the apical T if you're used to do a dental one you actually need to pull your tongue back a little bit, almost like retracting it indeed. Isn't it?
@@ivomoreira42 You can do an apical T that is also dental - apical refers to the part of the tongue (the tip), while dental refers to where the tongue touches (the teeth). That's where my confusion was. /t/ is considered primarily alveolar, so on the gum ridge behind the upper teeth (though you can see on the chart they group dental/alveolar/postalveolar for everything except the fricatives. The TH sounds are the only designated dental sounds. Regarding retraction, this is an issue the IPA doesn't clearly deal with in all cases: Is the front of the tongue curled back for the sound or is it more about the rear portion of the tongue "bunching" towards the back? Either could result in a sound happening further back. Thanks for the clarification!
@@AccentHelp - i'm still confused i mean, the flap T, is soft d and like second d in DADDY as in ( putting vs pudding ) and ( matter = madder ) Thank you.
@@ramzy-6566 The IPA doesn't have a Flapped T - but based on what you said here, we're talking about the same sound, what I'd call the Tapped or Flapped R.
I'm a Portuguese speaker and I can confirm that the tapped "t" is very much like our "r" (we also have a guttural one instead of the trilled one of Spanish but that's another story) and I've never understood those who say it's a "d". Now, your devoiced tapped "r" is indeed something else and it's amazed me, I've got to learn it!
I needed help pronouncing the /s/ and /z/ sounds when I was little, and I had an interesting way of making the sound. A phonological description of the sounds I made would be an aspirated velar nasal for /z/ and a voiceless aspirated velar nasal for /s/, so they would be transcribed in narrow transcription as /ŋʰ/ instead of /z/ and /ŋ̥ʰ/ instead of /s/. I didn’t realize I was saying them incorrectly, and I needed speech therapy to help with it.
Americans will commonly do it if the Z ends a phrase: "those." It will also commonly happen when it is followed, in connected speech, by an unvoiced consonant: "those few" - but it wouldn't be as likely to happen if what follows it is a vowel sound or a voiced consonant, or at least it wouldn't be AS devoiced: "those men."
Yes. It depends on the person. The more high pitched an S sounds, the more likely it happens further forward both on the tongue and on the roof of the mouth/teeth.
Most people wouldn't, but you can hear it in some ESL accents: It can happen for Germans and Spanish speakers, for example. But native English speakers wouldn't tend to devoice a Z before a vowel.
So do some people from Baltimore and some other places! Interesting how things like that happen in various places... like how many Americans say "warsh" for "wash." Thanks for sharing!
I'm overwhelmed and it's ok
I think u are the most wonderful phonetic teacher of this world
Love your videos! As an accent hobby-ist, it's so nice to hear these concepts described so well. Thanks for making these videos :)
Happy to help! If you have something specific you want me to cover, let me know!
Thank you so much. Mr. jim . Great video.
Hello
are you de-voicing the sound z in the word ( crackers ) to to S sound or you start the sound with z sound and end with s sound.
- if yes is that in every plural words the end with s and the letter before voiced. ( kitties ) ( guys ) ( pictures )
is that more in western.
Thank you Mrs. Jim.
The Z does tend to devoice, primarily when it either ends the phrase, or when what follows it starts with an unvoiced sound. (It tends to stay more Z-like when what follows it is a voiced consonant or a vowel.) It tends to have a bit of voiced quality to it before it devoices, but in some people's speech, they can't distinguish between a Z and an S in a final position on a word.
I love every single one of your videos, Jim, always spot on. Now let me tell you my take on the "Dark L": the IPA has both velarized and pharyngealized L's because it depends on the vowel that comes right before it, e.g.: ball would be [bɑ̹lˤ], old [o̞lˠd̚] and table either [ˈtʰe̞ɪ̯.bl̩ˠ] or [ˈtʰe̞ɪ̯.bl̩ˤ] depending on the speaker. I think that's why some people produce their syllabic L's with sounds that resembles an "ull" sound as in "bull", while others go with "ol" as in "old". What you think?
I'll buy that. I tend to go with the wavy line "velarized or pharyngealized" as the generic way of expressing it, but in the same way the /l/ affects the vowel, the vowel (front vs back or high vs low, for example) could affect the /l/.
thank you so much!! I just watched all your IPA diacritics and they are super helpful! i will go check out your other videos now! :)
Is the dentalized /ð/ the same as the dentalized /d/ or is there an audible difference? I love this series btw!
It's hard to say, really... The IPA is a tool, so people can use it in slightly different ways. I would use the symbol that it feels most like for you, and then tweak it with the diacritic. That is the key to using diacritics, to me - and that's how I think they are more helpful in figuring out accents.
@@AccentHelp Got it! I suppose that's truly the best way to go about using the IPA
/d̪/ is plosive, and /ð/ is fricative.
Great video. Interesting topic. Do you know what it's called when the d "disappears" in many midwest speakers pronunciations? I've noticed that it's there at the beginning of words like "dairy" or "David" but words like "yard" and "Jordan" it seems to vanish and those words are pronounced, "yarr" and "Jorr-en". I've just called that the midwest accent but not sure how that would be represented in IPA.
The D isn't disappearing - it's just realized in another way. These are both examples where I'd say the D is stopped at the same time you are stopping a glottal, and then in the second example, it gets released nasally. (Look back at part 2 for some details on this.) Thanks!
@@AccentHelp Excellent. I'll check that out. Thanks.
Is devoiced like pronouncing like an /s/ but at the end you pronounce like a /z/?
if then, it does make a /z̥/ sound?
Usually the devoicing works the other way around - like you intend /z/ and it is realized more like /s/.
@@AccentHelp so I was right there? '^'
And thank you, that helped me to understand some few diacritics that i was confused
Would you consider the apical plain T [t̺] to be a retracted version of the dental one [t̪] and the latter being an advanced version of the former in such a way that the dental could be transcribed as a "pushed forward T" [t̟] to an American that's learning a, let's say, New York Latino accent, and the apical as a "pulled back T" [t̠] to a Latin American learning English? Or do you think it's possible to produce the apical without retracting the tongue if you're coming from the dental?
Well, just about anything is possible... I'm not sure what you mean by your final question, actually - the idea of "coming from the dental" is what I'm unclear on. I think you could be apical and dental - one is about the part of the tongue and the other about the destination of the tongue. I find I go a tiny bit more apical for NYC Latino, as opposed to a bit more laminal when I'm speaking Spanish with my Colombian Spanish teacher, emulating her. I think you could use advanced/retracted or apical/laminal to express the idea - but which one makes it clearer what is happening? My guess is apical/laminal. (This is all just my take - I'm not a linguist!)
@@AccentHelp you might not be a linguist, but you know a lot of things and have a huge experience, so I guess you're right and I agree with you on everything. By the idea of "coming from the dental" I meant "if you take the T as being dental for nature, would the apical T just be a retracted T?", Ok, I tried to be very specific now, but that's basically what I meant. I asked that because I feel like in order to make the apical T if you're used to do a dental one you actually need to pull your tongue back a little bit, almost like retracting it indeed. Isn't it?
@@ivomoreira42 You can do an apical T that is also dental - apical refers to the part of the tongue (the tip), while dental refers to where the tongue touches (the teeth). That's where my confusion was. /t/ is considered primarily alveolar, so on the gum ridge behind the upper teeth (though you can see on the chart they group dental/alveolar/postalveolar for everything except the fricatives. The TH sounds are the only designated dental sounds. Regarding retraction, this is an issue the IPA doesn't clearly deal with in all cases: Is the front of the tongue curled back for the sound or is it more about the rear portion of the tongue "bunching" towards the back? Either could result in a sound happening further back. Thanks for the clarification!
@@AccentHelp No, thank YOU, Jim!
Another amazing video!
hello, is the flap T sound like the second D in a word ( dad ). Thank you.
I think you're talking about a tap or flap R rather than an T. That would be the second D sound in the word DADDY or the phrase DAD IS.
@@AccentHelp
- i'm still confused i mean, the flap T, is soft d and like second d in DADDY as in ( putting vs pudding ) and ( matter = madder ) Thank you.
@@ramzy-6566 The IPA doesn't have a Flapped T - but based on what you said here, we're talking about the same sound, what I'd call the Tapped or Flapped R.
I'm a Portuguese speaker and I can confirm that the tapped "t" is very much like our "r" (we also have a guttural one instead of the trilled one of Spanish but that's another story) and I've never understood those who say it's a "d". Now, your devoiced tapped "r" is indeed something else and it's amazed me, I've got to learn it!
I needed help pronouncing the /s/ and /z/ sounds when I was little, and I had an interesting way of making the sound. A phonological description of the sounds I made would be an aspirated velar nasal for /z/ and a voiceless aspirated velar nasal for /s/, so they would be transcribed in narrow transcription as /ŋʰ/ instead of /z/ and /ŋ̥ʰ/ instead of /s/. I didn’t realize I was saying them incorrectly, and I needed speech therapy to help with it.
Would you give me an example sentence in which the /z/ would be devoiced?
Americans will commonly do it if the Z ends a phrase: "those." It will also commonly happen when it is followed, in connected speech, by an unvoiced consonant: "those few" - but it wouldn't be as likely to happen if what follows it is a vowel sound or a voiced consonant, or at least it wouldn't be AS devoiced: "those men."
great Accent Help.
Jim Johnson can you tell me how to make e̞ and o̞ with that diacritic ?
Central e and o
The diacritic you used would be for lowered, rather than Central. Are you asking about both the lowered version and the centralized version of each?
Only to make the e̞ and o̞
@@alexandrefrota727 Then yes, those would be lowered. That means /e/ is moving a bit towards /ɛ/ and /o/ is moving a bit towards /ɔ/.
Is the /s/ laminal or apical?
Yes. It depends on the person. The more high pitched an S sounds, the more likely it happens further forward both on the tongue and on the roof of the mouth/teeth.
Do you devoice z in words like "zoo", "zebra", "fuzzy", ...
Most people wouldn't, but you can hear it in some ESL accents: It can happen for Germans and Spanish speakers, for example. But native English speakers wouldn't tend to devoice a Z before a vowel.
Thanks.
[t̻] sounds like japanese T sound.
I have to meet one day ,please give me such opportunity
ɰᶭ
Bahamians say /zɪŋk/ for “sink”.
So do some people from Baltimore and some other places! Interesting how things like that happen in various places... like how many Americans say "warsh" for "wash." Thanks for sharing!
(If you're from there, I'd like to record your accent! Reach out through my website email if you're willing!)
Accent Help Will do!