*I will used a moral based combat system for mobs for my future/current creation of DnD styled combat. For small or individual battles, I plan on creating a Role Master (combat rules used in Jr. Tolkien's tabletop games which had critical roles (players being stunned/bleeding/given negatives for broken or battered limbs) and armor types 1 to 20 listed along with weapons, armor 1 clothes with 20 being full plate armor) for small battles only. *Your attention to moral combat is perfect during mob combat where the players are much more powerful than the mob, like 12 goblins attacking a much stronger party of 3. Liked/Bell on! Please post a video on how to use Npcs to make adventurers the most enjoyable (if you have not already). I am going to start looking into your past videos on Npc characters soon. You are among a handful of DnD channels who keep my mind sharp when creating my own style. I would like a Pdf, but I don't want to cross any lines since I plan on eventually posting to Kickstarter, publishing my own Ebook story and then the actual game in the future when I'm not teaching Middle School. I only began my game creation recently since summer break began on June 3 for me, though I finished with the digital coloring of my first 60 fantasy images that I had in black-and-white format for years, using Fiverr services to create into game card monsters currently as I write, write, and write more content everyday.
Ah that final explanation of the natural break in battle, they clash, a few die, they regroup and everyone kind of backs up to reassess the scenario. I like that a lot!
For me, "morale checks" are pretty much required to play OSR games, especially B/X. Combat is too much of a meat grinder otherwise. Plus: it gives the players more opportunity and incentive to be creative about how they approach combat.
Agreed, so much so that I was disappointed when Morale DIDN'T make it into AD&D when the MM came out. In my games, I went the other direction; I use Morale in lieu of HPs, exhaustion, loyalty, etc... they go up and down like HPs, but can be restored/raised by other-than-magical means (short rest, bite to eat, a shower, a swallow of mead, etc.)
@@hoboogre8023 interesting take Morale vs HP! I’ve taken to (in the games I am creating) replacing death with defeat as I think it’s more Interesting- calling HD or HP morale works really well with that.
I’ve been using morale in my home brew from the beginning. It really does add more dynamics to combat. I’ve also added a simple d6 follow up roll if the morale check fails: 1-2 run away 3-4 surrender 5-6 negotiate.
Fantastic video! Another rule I incorporate with Morale is to give Morale abilities to monsters or NPCs acting as leaders among their battle group. For example... "Other allied creatures do not roll for morale while this creature is alive and on the battlefield" "Other allied creatures get a +X bonus to morale checks while this creature is alive and on the battlefield" "Other allied creatures have to make a morale check when this creature dies or leaves the battlefield" etc It adds an additional layer of strategy. Getting rid of the other enemy captain and their wizard can seriously swing the tide of a battle fast for example.
Watching this, I realized that your talk of forcing moves back and forth is a great way to have a party fight "mass combat" style without having a separate set of rules, like OD&D did. Nice edit for Morale. And thank you for the sheet download, gonna use this.
I use reaction roll, distance and surprise before they meet the creatures to see the scene set up. This all helps you set the table for the players so they can decide how to approach the situation. Depending on the outcome, there may not even be a fight. If they go into combat, i typically roll a morale check after first and second round. If they're still fighting after the second check - it's to the death.
I definitely agree that keeping any given creature's moral in mind while gaming is important. Nice to see various ways of doing that mechanically. 👍 ~ Adam
Great video. I think this is very helpful for newer, or even DMs that are uncomfortable with free-styling combat, to learn a flow of combat reactions. The PDF is very much appreciated.
Another great vid, love your content and disappointed in the algorithm for taking so long to introduce me to your channel. My wife is one of my players and we both sat here listening. I asked her what she thought. She said she thought it would be interesting for morale to also force the players back in addition to the NPCs. I’ll have to start using this in my next campaign. Great stuff! 😊👍
@@BanditsKeep I started FDM printing back in October for a company I do engineering work for. Had some successes some failures. Recently started prototyping products with a Saturn 8k resin printer and manage to get in a mini or 2. Filament printing is best suited for terrain models, dungeon halls, houses, etc. And resin is best for minis. Although you can do either on both. Just depends on the level of detail. I owe so much of my success to you youtubers out there & I try to give back to the community when I can. 3d printing is so affordable now too. If you're willing to spend 3 hours an evening for 3-4 evenings a week. I'd be happy to email you more info & some ideas I have for the old school dungeons. Lmk! Really enjoy the channel & Thanks for your efforts!
In CM1 Test of the Warlords, we had armies which we outfitted and sent out for several reasons. Exploration, area control, patrol and even attacking against giants. There were several battles against overwhelming odds and units got wiped out. Swarmed and routed after failing their morale even though some units had magic items and maybe even a spellcaster with them. When the giants attacked, several units fled with only the PC's staying to hold off the giants with support from artillery units with ballista and catapults that had not fled yet. Morale did improve when units saw the PC's still fighting and they regrouped to charge again. The system used in that module was known only to the DM. We never got to see it but we were told that certain factors would add to morale of the troops. Some units had clerics, rangers and at least several of my unit commanders were given magic armor and weapons which added to unit strength and morale. I'm guessing that they used something similar to the Chainmail rules for that module.
I use a rule of thumb: the 1/3 rule. With the exceptions of certain creature types, most creatures will run if either 1/3 of their allies have fallen/fled or 1/3 of their health is depleted. This tracks with how real world militaries break on the battlefield. Exceptions are for mindless creatures (zombies, skeletons, plant creatures, etc), zealots (most outsiders in the material plane, cultists, summoned creatures, etc), or trapped creatures that can't flee for some reason (mama bear in her den, wyvern in their nest, etc) who all fight to the death.
Really good video - clear presentation and very useful for any RPG encounter I suspect you mean cavalry rather than calvary though, unless the foes are being charged by the hill on which Christ was crucified
Interesting. In a recent game, a player summoned a tiger with a tan bag of tricks, rolled a crit on it's attack and I had it bite the orc's head off. I had the tiger roll an intimidation check with advantage, against the other orcs and the orcs turned on their ogre leader, and bartered for peace. Also they didn't speak common, and they had to answer the PC's with grunts and pointing, and a few basic words. It ended up being a really memorable social encounter as well as a combat. I didn't know that effectively I was rolling against the monsters morale. Cool.
Great video here Daniel. I think many combats are boring because PCs and monsters fight like mindless robots to the end. Adding the BX element of morale checks creates a degree of plausible realism to combat encounters. Even in a fantasy setting, most sentient creatures will possess some level of self-preservation. Adding the checks also means less unnecessary combat overall and faster resolutions to fighting. Well done! 👍🏼
Love this type of thinking Daniel! My player's actually like using morale (for PC's too.) It's like insanity; you need a system to allow for the terror of a monster/experience to be too great to bear sometimes! (Heroes must face real danger of insanity.) Similarly, you need a system to allow for the possibility that a PC/NPC may run/break due to battle terror! (Heros must face what NPC's face.) Didn't look at pdf yet, but a very simple version could be homemade so that too much number crunching (chainmail) doesn't get in the way of immersion. Great video!
This is how I play with a homebrew system - the dice are different but the rules nearly match There’s also a command ability where you can force troops to stay instead of abandoning you or foes to surrender instead of retreating.
Super helpful, I was curious about your large-scale battles. I would love to hear how you handle domain play. What types of things do you consider or procedures do you follow when players want to build and maintain strongholds, towns, or even nations. I see many systems hint at it, and watched Todd at HP do a video on BirthRight. But curious about how you handle larger-scale ventures from powerful player characters.
Great video! I use my own system for morale, but this method gives me a new tool. Being (sorry I don't know how to spell the word) routed will definitely come into play in the future. Thanks Daniel. Let's have the pdf.
Not played Chainmail but I do use Ringmail (the retro-clone of Chainmail) to play out background stuff in my campaign. It's fantastic! Super simple and fast too. I like your morale rules, would love a pdf it has just the right amount of complexity to have interesting results but still quick enough to not dampen the pace.
never played Chain mail but play war games and it works very well especially about keeping the battlefield dynamic with charges breaks and charges. the wisdom bonus is bc of will power. veteran troops and some version of brave trait always give bonuses to moral rolls. my favorite gane is fire and fury and moral shocks are awesome and effective for keeping the field dynamic.
Great video. Thanks. I started with B/X ( that box art is burned into my memory even though the details of the adventures has faded) but the first d&d I owned was red box (still on my shelf today). Is there a difference between b/x and BECMI? Or is it just a re-release?
There are some differences, but mostly BECMI adds more stuff each box set so when you have them all you have a more crunchy system with weapon specialization etc
@@BanditsKeep cool. Thanks. And I guess levels as well. BECMI goes to 36 though I’m doubtful many people played that far. But basic and expert should be similar between editions.
I've gone through multiple modes of thought on this through the years. I like a contact check, which is like surprise and reaction really. A hesitation point based on troop quality (poor, good and elite) which is forced on a side after losses equal .2, .3 or .4 X the number of dudes in your unit. Troopers count 1 each, leaders 5. A "break" check again at .4, .6 and .8. You add situational mods for events to these of course. Idk, Lord Moran in his monumental "Anatomy of Courage" likened morale to a bank account to which deposits were made and debits withdrawn, and that seemed very well put to me. I have never agreed with the option to flee in panic, or fight to the death. It's the worst rule D&D ever put to print. I thought Molvey had different language that allowed for a "fighting retreat"? Well, I could do a lot worse in life than to take another turn through some Moldvey... Thanks for the video!!
@@BanditsKeep so it's fight/fligjt/freeze reaction at any failed check, be it the hesitation or break level of casualties (incapacitated or dead). These are the instinctual reactions though, so a fight response is going to be individual, bestial fury an not a coordinated effort. Similar with flight, and freeze is like the auto collision where there some superficial head bleeding (these always have lots of blood) that freaks out bystanders who have the be told 500 times to call 911 "NOW #%$!@&!!". So, yes the morale failure definitely produces effects. Now a command element can spend actions with the activity I call "regroup" or that of "reorder" inwhich the hesitation point or break point matter in terms of efficiency and localized conditions. People tend to forget the freeze response and from my anecdotal experience in light of the literature on the matter, it's too common to overlook in a simulation, or game. (This whole deal plays into some of your thoughts on illusion/ or phantasmal forces btw.)
@@BanditsKeep Waterloo was the battle that Napoleon lost during his 100 days that resulted in him losing the crown for the second time. He had an elite unit called the Old Guard who had grown to legends and were thought to be invincible. He sent them at the Brits, but they had a trap set for them. They broke after the initial volley, and when the rest of the French army saw them running away, it caused a massive rout that disintegrated the army.
I've kinda done this without a table. I've always had little monsters run when they lose a quarter of their group or there's an immense show of power. It takes more for medium and even more for large and larger monsters. Interesting tables.
Hey Daniel, great video and topic! I'm not sure why you said Wisdom DC 10? It's a Charisma check, Intimation replaced Morale. You have great ideas for morale, great point on using morale to shorten combat. Thanks Daniel you have a wonderful day!
Daniel, another fantastic video thank you. I’ve learned a lot from this - I didn’t use the morale rules last adventure, and will do better next time. I’d love the pdf. The Basic monsters have interesting differences in morale e.g. a Medusa is morale 8, quite low, suggesting she really wants to stay alive! Question - do you explain the rules in detail to the players ? So that they might think, what can the PCs do to scare the monsters off, rather than just kill them?
@@BanditsKeep PS it makes me think of Star Wars - on the Death Star, Han attacks the stormtroopers. They fail a morale check and flee. Han chases until they run into a big force of troopers - then Han fails his morale check!
Daniel, I really enjoy your take on BX. Thank you for putting out these very practical and useful play Tips. I have one very minor comment cavalry charges, Calvary is where Jesus was crucified. Thanks again for these videos.
I like this idea and I would implement it in my DnD 5th Edition game, probably using the 2d6 roll rather than a d20 roll (feels more fun that way and more true to the original). Do you think setting the Morale for monsters in 5E could still be tied to their Hit Die type as a baseline? For example, a Goblin has a d6 so is more likely to run away than a Hobgoblin which has a d8, and then an Ankheg or a Beholder have a d10, so they are even less likely to run, etc up the hit die food chain. Maybe then giving a +1 to their morale from the average of (6 or 7?) for each hit die type? So d6 =+0, d8=+1, d10=+2, d12=+3. Would this make sense, or make it too likely that creatures won't run away when they maybe should? Interesting topic, thanks for the video!
@@petegiant If I had those older editions I would do that. But I'm trying to come up with something that would work completely within the system I have and looking at the Stat blocks I have all in one place.
That's an interesting take - HMM, yes, I would say the overall HD and general "personality tropes" could be used - Dragons are fearless, even small ones, where as wild animals (let's say wolves) will often run if they can when faced with a threat,
I'm curious what the hard numbers and the dice provide versus pure GM fiat. I mean, the GM makes judgement calls regarding bad guy behavior and decision all over the place already, right? Where to move, which action to take, who to target, what to say--why not just add "when to run away" to that? Although, I do think it's extremely useful to have some numbers down somewhere as a guideline, at the very least. Especially for GMs and players to whom the concept of retreat is an alien one. The idea really seems to be part of a broader issue where people don't know when an encounter is over. Like, if the encounter's dramatic question is "can the PCs survive the goblin ambush?", and the goblins turn tail and run, the encounter is over. If the PCs want to chase after the goblins and finish them off, there's no need (in a vacuum, anyway) to continue Initiative order at that point. "You hunt down the last of the goblin raiders in the forest." Done and done. ...but if the question is "can the PCs capture the goblin shaman?" and the goblins book it, the encounter definitely isn't over yet. I feel like it's a really useful thing to consider to prevent scenes from dragging on or players wandering around, acting randomly because they feel like there's more to do when there just isn't. Another issue with systems that include precise tactical movement is that, when they don't have a separate subsystem for chases and stuff, retreat is often simply impossible, according to the basic rules. Your speed is X, your enemy's speed is X+10. So don't even try to run; you'll forgo your own attacks, take more in return and still won't ever get away. In order to encourage players to undertake that sort of action, there needs to be a fair amount of adjudication. Allowing for acrobatics and stealth and whatnot to make it more than "who can move the most 5ft squares" and, I think most importantly, not having every single foe the PCs encounter be willing to chase them to the ends of the earth. Which I guess comes back to this idea that the different people and creatures encountered are living things with varying motives and dispositions.
There are chase rules in BX also missile weapons - while I have no problem. With DM Fiat especially for a leader or single creature - when faced with large numbers, sometimes having a system makes sense. Do I roll for everything, of course not, but it’s nice to know you can spice up the game with actions that surprise both DM and Players.
I started using the chainmail morale in D&D once I started playing Chainmail as a wargame. I think it okay for PCs to be pushed back in good order as I always pictured it as literally being pushing back by formation, shield wall or spear wall with the centre of the melee moving with the shift in position if the winners move allows
I've had a question regardomg morale checks for a long time now, how do you people actually make them? Do you roll 2d6 for every single monster or do you roll 2d6 once and every enemy that fails that same check flees?
Thank you for this! Could you speak a bit about when to check retainer loyalty in the adventure? I know that it says when encountering great danger, but what does this really mean in situation?
@@BanditsKeep thank you for the response, that makes sense! Love the content as always, I'm about to make an anchor account to send you a response on the most recent podcast episode
I have used Morale since I started playing with 1st Edition AD&D. It just makes sense. Nothing is going to stand there like Rocky Balboa and get their face beaten in... As a DM, I rolled secretly for a monster's morale, even when the game didn't have a specific rule for a morale situation.
Really good video, but I have to point out one thing: Calvary (used in the vid): the place where Jesus was crucified. Cavalry: soldiers who fight on horseback.
@@BanditsKeep You do realize that you showed the text "calvary" and said the word "calvary" multiple times, right? You clearly meant "cavalry", though.
Here is the PDF of these rules: drive.google.com/file/d/1K_6-PtioAbtBkpHFcZts9GscnkuvfBOe/view?usp=sharing
*I will used a moral based combat system for mobs for my future/current creation of DnD styled combat. For small or individual battles, I plan on creating a Role Master (combat rules used in Jr. Tolkien's tabletop games which had critical roles (players being stunned/bleeding/given negatives for broken or battered limbs) and armor types 1 to 20 listed along with weapons, armor 1 clothes with 20 being full plate armor) for small battles only. *Your attention to moral combat is perfect during mob combat where the players are much more powerful than the mob, like 12 goblins attacking a much stronger party of 3. Liked/Bell on! Please post a video on how to use Npcs to make adventurers the most enjoyable (if you have not already). I am going to start looking into your past videos on Npc characters soon. You are among a handful of DnD channels who keep my mind sharp when creating my own style. I would like a Pdf, but I don't want to cross any lines since I plan on eventually posting to Kickstarter, publishing my own Ebook story and then the actual game in the future when I'm not teaching Middle School. I only began my game creation recently since summer break began on June 3 for me, though I finished with the digital coloring of my first 60 fantasy images that I had in black-and-white format for years, using Fiverr services to create into game card monsters currently as I write, write, and write more content everyday.
@@Warglobalnews cool, I look forward to seeing your finished system
Thank you, so much! Sorry for the late reply. I'm still learning how to use UA-cam.
hands down some of the best and most concise rpg information/theory UA-cam channel out there. please keep these coming!
Thanks!
Yes. Awesome idea. Thanks.
He really does explain this well.
Ah that final explanation of the natural break in battle, they clash, a few die, they regroup and everyone kind of backs up to reassess the scenario. I like that a lot!
It definitely adds some depth and options
The most underrated dnd channel. I’m going to adapt this to my home brew 5e game.
Thank you! Let me know how it works for you
For me, "morale checks" are pretty much required to play OSR games, especially B/X. Combat is too much of a meat grinder otherwise. Plus: it gives the players more opportunity and incentive to be creative about how they approach combat.
Indeed
Agreed. B/X without morale is just too deadly for the characters, and it is just not very fun when monsters always fight to the death.
Agreed, so much so that I was disappointed when Morale DIDN'T make it into AD&D when the MM came out. In my games, I went the other direction; I use Morale in lieu of HPs, exhaustion, loyalty, etc... they go up and down like HPs, but can be restored/raised by other-than-magical means (short rest, bite to eat, a shower, a swallow of mead, etc.)
@@hoboogre8023 interesting take Morale vs HP! I’ve taken to (in the games I am creating) replacing death with defeat as I think it’s more Interesting- calling HD or HP morale works really well with that.
AD&D does have a morale system in the DMG, page 60.
I’ve been using morale in my home brew from the beginning. It really does add more dynamics to combat. I’ve also added a simple d6 follow up roll if the morale check fails: 1-2 run away 3-4 surrender 5-6 negotiate.
I like that!
I like what I'm hearing, I'm going to need to sit down and give this video 100% attention later today
Cool
I really enjoy your blending of "wargame" and adventure / roleplaying game concepts. "Dynamic" seems a good word for the resulting playstyle. Thanks!
Thank You!
Fantastic video!
Another rule I incorporate with Morale is to give Morale abilities to monsters or NPCs acting as leaders among their battle group. For example...
"Other allied creatures do not roll for morale while this creature is alive and on the battlefield"
"Other allied creatures get a +X bonus to morale checks while this creature is alive and on the battlefield"
"Other allied creatures have to make a morale check when this creature dies or leaves the battlefield"
etc
It adds an additional layer of strategy. Getting rid of the other enemy captain and their wizard can seriously swing the tide of a battle fast for example.
Cool!
A lovely reminder of a good subsystem!
Nice departure from the standard UA-cam combat advice too. Thanks
Thanks 😊
Watching this, I realized that your talk of forcing moves back and forth is a great way to have a party fight "mass combat" style without having a separate set of rules, like OD&D did. Nice edit for Morale. And thank you for the sheet download, gonna use this.
Cool, thanks
I use reaction roll, distance and surprise before they meet the creatures to see the scene set up. This all helps you set the table for the players so they can decide how to approach the situation. Depending on the outcome, there may not even be a fight. If they go into combat, i typically roll a morale check after first and second round. If they're still fighting after the second check - it's to the death.
Cool
Yes please make a PDF of these rules! I love your videos and I always look forward to your insights on how to have more fun playing the games we love.
Thanks
PDF?.... yes, definitely. I'd love a PDF!
I shall create one
Found you by accident and I like what you do. Have been playing rpg since 84 and still learning...
Awesome
This is great! Love the reminder and explanation of old rules, and the chain mail rules are even better!
Thanks
I definitely agree that keeping any given creature's moral in mind while gaming is important. Nice to see various ways of doing that mechanically. 👍
~ Adam
Thanks 🙏🏻
You're always putting out great ideas and material.
I appreciate that!
Great video. I think this is very helpful for newer, or even DMs that are uncomfortable with free-styling combat, to learn a flow of combat reactions. The PDF is very much appreciated.
Thank You!
Another great vid, love your content and disappointed in the algorithm for taking so long to introduce me to your channel.
My wife is one of my players and we both sat here listening. I asked her what she thought. She said she thought it would be interesting for morale to also force the players back in addition to the NPCs.
I’ll have to start using this in my next campaign.
Great stuff! 😊👍
That’s great, thanks!
Love your channel sir! I listen along while I'm resin printing minis. 😉👍
Thanks! Fun, I someday want to try my hand at 3d printing
@@BanditsKeep I started FDM printing back in October for a company I do engineering work for. Had some successes some failures. Recently started prototyping products with a Saturn 8k resin printer and manage to get in a mini or 2. Filament printing is best suited for terrain models, dungeon halls, houses, etc. And resin is best for minis. Although you can do either on both. Just depends on the level of detail. I owe so much of my success to you youtubers out there & I try to give back to the community when I can.
3d printing is so affordable now too. If you're willing to spend 3 hours an evening for 3-4 evenings a week.
I'd be happy to email you more info & some ideas I have for the old school dungeons. Lmk! Really enjoy the channel & Thanks for your efforts!
In CM1 Test of the Warlords, we had armies which we outfitted and sent out for several reasons. Exploration, area control, patrol and even attacking against giants.
There were several battles against overwhelming odds and units got wiped out. Swarmed and routed after failing their morale even though some units had magic items and maybe even a spellcaster with them.
When the giants attacked, several units fled with only the PC's staying to hold off the giants with support from artillery units with ballista and catapults that had not fled yet. Morale did improve when units saw the PC's still fighting and they regrouped to charge again.
The system used in that module was known only to the DM. We never got to see it but we were told that certain factors would add to morale of the troops. Some units had clerics, rangers and at least several of my unit commanders were given magic armor and weapons which added to unit strength and morale.
I'm guessing that they used something similar to the Chainmail rules for that module.
I use a rule of thumb: the 1/3 rule. With the exceptions of certain creature types, most creatures will run if either 1/3 of their allies have fallen/fled or 1/3 of their health is depleted. This tracks with how real world militaries break on the battlefield. Exceptions are for mindless creatures (zombies, skeletons, plant creatures, etc), zealots (most outsiders in the material plane, cultists, summoned creatures, etc), or trapped creatures that can't flee for some reason (mama bear in her den, wyvern in their nest, etc) who all fight to the death.
Makes sense!
Great conversation as usual
Thank You!
Really good video - clear presentation and very useful for any RPG encounter
I suspect you mean cavalry rather than calvary though, unless the foes are being charged by the hill on which Christ was crucified
Indeed
Interesting. In a recent game, a player summoned a tiger with a tan bag of tricks, rolled a crit on it's attack and I had it bite the orc's head off. I had the tiger roll an intimidation check with advantage, against the other orcs and the orcs turned on their ogre leader, and bartered for peace. Also they didn't speak common, and they had to answer the PC's with grunts and pointing, and a few basic words. It ended up being a really memorable social encounter as well as a combat.
I didn't know that effectively I was rolling against the monsters morale. Cool.
Sounds like an awesome session!
Great video here Daniel. I think many combats are boring because PCs and monsters fight like mindless robots to the end. Adding the BX element of morale checks creates a degree of plausible realism to combat encounters. Even in a fantasy setting, most sentient creatures will possess some level of self-preservation. Adding the checks also means less unnecessary combat overall and faster resolutions to fighting. Well done! 👍🏼
Thanks!
Love this type of thinking Daniel! My player's actually like using morale (for PC's too.) It's like insanity; you need a system to allow for the terror of a monster/experience to be too great to bear sometimes! (Heroes must face real danger of insanity.)
Similarly, you need a system to allow for the possibility that a PC/NPC may run/break due to battle terror! (Heros must face what NPC's face.)
Didn't look at pdf yet, but a very simple version could be homemade so that too much number crunching (chainmail) doesn't get in the way of immersion.
Great video!
For sure, Chainmail is a bit too much math 😂 I streamlined it
Morale is a fantastic system that should be in every edition
For sure
This is how I play with a homebrew system - the dice are different but the rules nearly match
There’s also a command ability where you can force troops to stay instead of abandoning you or foes to surrender instead of retreating.
Cool!
Super helpful, I was curious about your large-scale battles. I would love to hear how you handle domain play. What types of things do you consider or procedures do you follow when players want to build and maintain strongholds, towns, or even nations. I see many systems hint at it, and watched Todd at HP do a video on BirthRight. But curious about how you handle larger-scale ventures from powerful player characters.
Since I’ve been back at playing that hasn’t come up much except in the abstract - but hopefully in my OD&D campaign it will
check out strongholds and followers by Matthew Colville. It might be what you`re looking for
Using morale has always been an important tool for me to run combat. I'd love to see your suggestions on PDF. I'd like to give them a try.
Cool - I pinned a comment with a link
Great video! I use my own system for morale, but this method gives me a new tool. Being (sorry I don't know how to spell the word) routed will definitely come into play in the future. Thanks Daniel. Let's have the pdf.
Awesome - I shall share the PDF ASAP
I like it. Will definitely use this
Cool, let me know how it works for you
Going by the rules Fear Spell is truly effective
Indeed!
You @ 12:22 : "this is post melee"
Me: imagines Post Malone as a Barbarian 😆
😊
I would love that pdf, sir!
I shall put it together
Not played Chainmail but I do use Ringmail (the retro-clone of Chainmail) to play out background stuff in my campaign. It's fantastic! Super simple and fast too. I like your morale rules, would love a pdf it has just the right amount of complexity to have interesting results but still quick enough to not dampen the pace.
Ringmail is pretty cool, I had already jumped into chainmail so didn't go that way, but I do like some of the simplified mechanics
Thank you for these ideas and the PDF. Have only played 5E, though I like your ideas better than DC10+Wis
Thanks 🙏🏻
never played Chain mail but play war games and it works very well especially about keeping the battlefield dynamic with charges breaks and charges.
the wisdom bonus is bc of will power. veteran troops and some version of brave trait always give bonuses to moral rolls.
my favorite gane is fire and fury and moral shocks are awesome and effective for keeping the field dynamic.
Cool! I'll have to check that out
Great video. Thanks. I started with B/X ( that box art is burned into my memory even though the details of the adventures has faded) but the first d&d I owned was red box (still on my shelf today). Is there a difference between b/x and BECMI? Or is it just a re-release?
There are some differences, but mostly BECMI adds more stuff each box set so when you have them all you have a more crunchy system with weapon specialization etc
@@BanditsKeep cool. Thanks. And I guess levels as well. BECMI goes to 36 though I’m doubtful many people played that far. But basic and expert should be similar between editions.
Sounds like a really cool system! I'm always a little hesitant with added complexity. Would be interesting to see a pdf to get a clearer picture.
I’ll share one soon
@@BanditsKeep thanks!
I've gone through multiple modes of thought on this through the years. I like a contact check, which is like surprise and reaction really. A hesitation point based on troop quality (poor, good and elite) which is forced on a side after losses equal .2, .3 or .4 X the number of dudes in your unit. Troopers count 1 each, leaders 5. A "break" check again at .4, .6 and .8. You add situational mods for events to these of course. Idk, Lord Moran in his monumental "Anatomy of Courage" likened morale to a bank account to which deposits were made and debits withdrawn, and that seemed very well put to me.
I have never agreed with the option to flee in panic, or fight to the death. It's the worst rule D&D ever put to print. I thought Molvey had different language that allowed for a "fighting retreat"? Well, I could do a lot worse in life than to take another turn through some Moldvey...
Thanks for the video!!
It sure I follow what happens when morale breaks - do they not run?
@@BanditsKeep so it's fight/fligjt/freeze reaction at any failed check, be it the hesitation or break level of casualties (incapacitated or dead). These are the instinctual reactions though, so a fight response is going to be individual, bestial fury an not a coordinated effort. Similar with flight, and freeze is like the auto collision where there some superficial head bleeding (these always have lots of blood) that freaks out bystanders who have the be told 500 times to call 911 "NOW #%$!@&!!".
So, yes the morale failure definitely produces effects. Now a command element can spend actions with the activity I call "regroup" or that of "reorder" inwhich the hesitation point or break point matter in terms of efficiency and localized conditions.
People tend to forget the freeze response and from my anecdotal experience in light of the literature on the matter, it's too common to overlook in a simulation, or game.
(This whole deal plays into some of your thoughts on illusion/ or phantasmal forces btw.)
This talk of Morale checks reminds me of the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Is that a war game?
@@BanditsKeep Waterloo was the battle that Napoleon lost during his 100 days that resulted in him losing the crown for the second time. He had an elite unit called the Old Guard who had grown to legends and were thought to be invincible. He sent them at the Brits, but they had a trap set for them. They broke after the initial volley, and when the rest of the French army saw them running away, it caused a massive rout that disintegrated the army.
@@99zxk ahhhh! I guess I have gaming on the brain 😂 that’s pretty Interesting historically
I've kinda done this without a table. I've always had little monsters run when they lose a quarter of their group or there's an immense show of power. It takes more for medium and even more for large and larger monsters. Interesting tables.
Cool! That way can work well for sure
I added a similar morale system for my Pathfinder 2E games. The monsters attempt a Will save, the DC of which increases by the party level.
Cool
Hey Daniel, great video and topic! I'm not sure why you said Wisdom DC 10? It's a Charisma check, Intimation replaced Morale. You have great ideas for morale, great point on using morale to shorten combat.
Thanks Daniel you have a wonderful day!
That is what the 5e DMG recommends. Intimidation is not the same as a morale check. Thanks!
Daniel, another fantastic video thank you. I’ve learned a lot from this - I didn’t use the morale rules last adventure, and will do better next time. I’d love the pdf. The Basic monsters have interesting differences in morale e.g. a Medusa is morale 8, quite low, suggesting she really wants to stay alive! Question - do you explain the rules in detail to the players ? So that they might think, what can the PCs do to scare the monsters off, rather than just kill them?
Right, Medusa is not one for a stand up fight IMO - yes, I explain the rules - I believe (informed) player choice should drive game play
@@BanditsKeep PS it makes me think of Star Wars - on the Death Star, Han attacks the stormtroopers. They fail a morale check and flee. Han chases until they run into a big force of troopers - then Han fails his morale check!
@@andrewhaldenby4949 Exactly!
Daniel, I really enjoy your take on BX. Thank you for putting out these very practical and useful play Tips. I have one very minor comment cavalry charges, Calvary is where Jesus was crucified. Thanks again for these videos.
Thanks
I like this idea and I would implement it in my DnD 5th Edition game, probably using the 2d6 roll rather than a d20 roll (feels more fun that way and more true to the original). Do you think setting the Morale for monsters in 5E could still be tied to their Hit Die type as a baseline? For example, a Goblin has a d6 so is more likely to run away than a Hobgoblin which has a d8, and then an Ankheg or a Beholder have a d10, so they are even less likely to run, etc up the hit die food chain. Maybe then giving a +1 to their morale from the average of (6 or 7?) for each hit die type? So d6 =+0, d8=+1, d10=+2, d12=+3. Would this make sense, or make it too likely that creatures won't run away when they maybe should? Interesting topic, thanks for the video!
I'd use the morale scores for monsters from b/x and ad&d 1e as written.
@@petegiant If I had those older editions I would do that. But I'm trying to come up with something that would work completely within the system I have and looking at the Stat blocks I have all in one place.
That's an interesting take - HMM, yes, I would say the overall HD and general "personality tropes" could be used - Dragons are fearless, even small ones, where as wild animals (let's say wolves) will often run if they can when faced with a threat,
@@BanditsKeep thanks! and yes, good point about the personality trope to tweak the Morale Stat. I like it!
I'm curious what the hard numbers and the dice provide versus pure GM fiat. I mean, the GM makes judgement calls regarding bad guy behavior and decision all over the place already, right? Where to move, which action to take, who to target, what to say--why not just add "when to run away" to that?
Although, I do think it's extremely useful to have some numbers down somewhere as a guideline, at the very least. Especially for GMs and players to whom the concept of retreat is an alien one.
The idea really seems to be part of a broader issue where people don't know when an encounter is over.
Like, if the encounter's dramatic question is "can the PCs survive the goblin ambush?", and the goblins turn tail and run, the encounter is over. If the PCs want to chase after the goblins and finish them off, there's no need (in a vacuum, anyway) to continue Initiative order at that point. "You hunt down the last of the goblin raiders in the forest." Done and done.
...but if the question is "can the PCs capture the goblin shaman?" and the goblins book it, the encounter definitely isn't over yet.
I feel like it's a really useful thing to consider to prevent scenes from dragging on or players wandering around, acting randomly because they feel like there's more to do when there just isn't.
Another issue with systems that include precise tactical movement is that, when they don't have a separate subsystem for chases and stuff, retreat is often simply impossible, according to the basic rules. Your speed is X, your enemy's speed is X+10. So don't even try to run; you'll forgo your own attacks, take more in return and still won't ever get away.
In order to encourage players to undertake that sort of action, there needs to be a fair amount of adjudication. Allowing for acrobatics and stealth and whatnot to make it more than "who can move the most 5ft squares" and, I think most importantly, not having every single foe the PCs encounter be willing to chase them to the ends of the earth. Which I guess comes back to this idea that the different people and creatures encountered are living things with varying motives and dispositions.
There are chase rules in BX also missile weapons - while I have no problem. With DM Fiat especially for a leader or single creature - when faced with large numbers, sometimes having a system makes sense. Do I roll for everything, of course not, but it’s nice to know you can spice up the game with actions that surprise both DM and Players.
I started using the chainmail morale in D&D once I started playing Chainmail as a wargame. I think it okay for PCs to be pushed back in good order as I always pictured it as literally being pushing back by formation, shield wall or spear wall with the centre of the melee moving with the shift in position if the winners move allows
For sure, that’s awesome, I’ve been pulling so much great stuff from Chainmail
I've had a question regardomg morale checks for a long time now, how do you people actually make them? Do you roll 2d6 for every single monster or do you roll 2d6 once and every enemy that fails that same check flees?
I do it as a group roll - once for each type of monster and occasionally I’ll have a separate roll for a leader
@@BanditsKeep Thanks! That makes a lot of sense
Thank you for this! Could you speak a bit about when to check retainer loyalty in the adventure? I know that it says when encountering great danger, but what does this really mean in situation?
I would do it at the same time as the monsters in this case - base it on their morale (which is based on PC charisma)
@@BanditsKeep thank you for the response, that makes sense! Love the content as always, I'm about to make an anchor account to send you a response on the most recent podcast episode
@@jaredsmith6565 awesome
I have used Morale since I started playing with 1st Edition AD&D. It just makes sense. Nothing is going to stand there like Rocky Balboa and get their face beaten in... As a DM, I rolled secretly for a monster's morale, even when the game didn't have a specific rule for a morale situation.
Nice
Chainmail...school is now in session! Huddle up.
🙌🏻🙌🏻
Make critical hits do max out damage and deal doubles damage total. Morale though is much more important of concept for any dm and players.
Indeed
Really good video, but I have to point out one thing:
Calvary (used in the vid): the place where Jesus was crucified.
Cavalry: soldiers who fight on horseback.
umm ok
@@BanditsKeep You do realize that you showed the text "calvary" and said the word "calvary" multiple times, right? You clearly meant "cavalry", though.
Just a typo
Calvary is where Jesus was crucified. Cavalry is warriors on mounts. :)
🤦🏻♂️