It was fun to get in ZZs head for the first time. I’m very impressed by his maturity and thought process. I’ve been playing longer than he’s been alive, but his words carry so much wisdom. What an amazing match for him to review! He and Stick are my favorite guests so far. Who doesn’t love hearing Stick talk BG?
@@EricPetersen2922 I think we will see him in many future championship matches. Early 20s now only? So much time for improvement and he’s already in elite company.
@@alex324ization did not intend to slight any grandmasters. I’ve enjoyed every match analysis very much so far! I just especially love the way some people talk about the game. Bill Robertie yesterday was very special for me as well because of all he has done for the game. That was a beautiful moment in BG history for him to appear on the stream.
Mark and Nick, the coverage has been excellent so far BUT WOW that was some of the most intense backgammon I have ever seen. Thankful for the opportunity to watch these inhuman plays.
Players should study this match for a long time. I haven't watched the post-match analysis yet. You could do that for days. Btw, I have a hard time following what percentage chances they have, and what do "P" and "O" mean? Great job, Marc and Nick.
@@DavidKlausa Wow. I wish they would just choose one letter for each guy. It goes way too fast for even the transcriber to keep up, in those last two games, e.g..
Great match again, love to play on backgammon galaxy against other players, also I have extreme gammon both on pc and app, very useful to learn the deep strategy of the game, I like the tutor mode, I call myself a casual player, because I'm not even near this level of play like these top players, but I keep playing and enjoying the game, that's what makes this game interesting every match:)
The "PR" is the "performance rating" and is essentially an error rate, it is the same as on Backgammon Galaxy called "error rate". Everytime you make an inferior move you are giving away equity to the opponent, which can be measured by the computer engine. All that equity is summed up and is called the "total equity loss", which is then divided by the total number of decisions that you have had. This is then multiplied with -500 to scale it up to a meaningful number and to make it positive. The lower the PR you play the better you play, and if you play perfect according to the Extremegammon engine you play 0.00 PR.
@@mkfort It's certainly not solved, but the consensus is that future advancements won't change most of XG's evaluations significantly. Maybe current XG will play at a PR of 0.5 compared to XG in 2050.
Excellent coverage, the jokers in this match though do not alleviate the fact that the RNG Mersenne Twister is an outdated technology that hasn't been updated since 1997, they've surfed unchallenged for far too long, it doesn't pass multi angled sophisticated analysis. Modern RNG developers speak openly on this and say the software needs a scrambler patch to satisfy testing. The rigged dice calls may last longer than the T shirt stocks
I'm not a fan of this format. It's ridiculous to try to take the luck out of a game based on luck. Imagine if a chess player were punished for not making the computer move.
On the site, the "3-ply" bot -- whatever that means -- makes some head-scratching decisions. I like this setting. Chess is different. There's not nearly as much luck involved. Here, there's less reward for someone who is "luckier than good."
@@winthorpetrois The way I understand it is the "n-ply" is the number moves the computer looks ahead for each player. So for "2-ply" it rolls the dice for each player two moves when evaluating the position/move. BG is "luckier" but the longer the games (i.e. 7pts. vs 21pts.) or match (i.e. number of games in the match) is the luck factor tends to average out and the superior player will usually prevail. Which unfortunately doesn't work to my advantage,
backgammon isn't a game based on luck though. The luck is in the dice roll, but after the dice are rolled it's 100% about logical reasoning and mathematics. Backgammon isn't about arbitrarily moving checkers around. Mathematically speaking, with every roll, there are correct moves and there are wrong moves. In this format, players have a lot of leeway for the most part in how they move if there is more than one decision that isn't an error. In the end, even if you don't play UBC format, there are calculations you need to make over the board to ensure that you are outplaying your opponent. Luck has very little to do with it. I'm not sure if you watch a lot of professional chess but it is certainly analyzed in a similar way as this. Granted, players don't receive points for playing correctly but there are entire books written analyzing the logic of chess.
@@MarkT1700 I said it's based on luck, not entirely dependent on luck. Big difference. The moves are decisions on how to manage the luck. This format tries to take the luck out. But who is that for? Poker is one of the most popular games and has just as much luck. I watch plenty of chess, and other than certain correspondence games where engines are allowed, computer analysis has nothing to do with the result of any match or tournament.
This is by far the best match so far and I'm only 1 hour into the video.
you aint seen NOTHIN' yet ! :)
It was fun to get in ZZs head for the first time. I’m very impressed by his maturity and thought process. I’ve been playing longer than he’s been alive, but his words carry so much wisdom. What an amazing match for him to review! He and Stick are my favorite guests so far. Who doesn’t love hearing Stick talk BG?
ZZ is brilliant. He works hard and it shows.
@@EricPetersen2922 I think we will see him in many future championship matches. Early 20s now only? So much time for improvement and he’s already in elite company.
No favorite for me I thank all these players equally for sharing their knowledge.
@@alex324ization did not intend to slight any grandmasters. I’ve enjoyed every match analysis very much so far! I just especially love the way some people talk about the game. Bill Robertie yesterday was very special for me as well because of all he has done for the game. That was a beautiful moment in BG history for him to appear on the stream.
Great contest, great commentary and great analysis. Zdenek's reasoning is so straight forward, even for these demanding positions. Just good stuff!
Mark and Nick, the coverage has been excellent so far BUT WOW that was some of the most intense backgammon I have ever seen. Thankful for the opportunity to watch these inhuman plays.
This was a legendary match.
What an amazing match from 2 of the truly greatest players in the world!! Awesome!!
Couldn't agree more!
OK now I've watched the whole match... That was one of the best I've ever watched.WOW
THE BEST!!!
Absolute turn around at the last game, that was intense
WOW WOW WOW !!! talk about iINSANE games at INSANE speed gammon. I would have had 100 nervous breakdowns after that!!!
Players should study this match for a long time. I haven't watched the post-match analysis yet. You could do that for days. Btw, I have a hard time following what percentage chances they have, and what do "P" and "O" mean? Great job, Marc and Nick.
P=Player O=Opponent. Each has three numbers after it. The first number is % wins, the second is % gammons, the third is % backgammons.
@@DavidKlausa Thank you, but in this case, which guy is the player, and which is the opponent?
@@winthorpetrois Whoever is currently on roll is the player. It switches every roll.
@@DavidKlausa Wow. I wish they would just choose one letter for each guy. It goes way too fast for even the transcriber to keep up, in those last two games, e.g..
Not a bad idea.
Great match again, love to play on backgammon galaxy against other players, also I have extreme gammon both on pc and app, very useful to learn the deep strategy of the game, I like the tutor mode, I call myself a casual player, because I'm not even near this level of play like these top players, but I keep playing and enjoying the game, that's what makes this game interesting every match:)
Thanks a lot for the kind words Luc :-) And yes it's amazing to watch people who truly master the game... Amazing performance by Mochy and Ueda!
outrageous - these guys... just astonishing.
Did he went from 41->42 years old.
Sorry to be so dumb, but you can explain a bit about the PR score and how it’s calculated.
How much equity lost multiplied by -500 then divided by the number of decisions.
The "PR" is the "performance rating" and is essentially an error rate, it is the same as on Backgammon Galaxy called "error rate". Everytime you make an inferior move you are giving away equity to the opponent, which can be measured by the computer engine. All that equity is summed up and is called the "total equity loss", which is then divided by the total number of decisions that you have had. This is then multiplied with -500 to scale it up to a meaningful number and to make it positive. The lower the PR you play the better you play, and if you play perfect according to the Extremegammon engine you play 0.00 PR.
@@BackgammonGalaxy is backgammon a solved game? Is Xtreme Gammon perfect play?
@@mkfort It's certainly not solved, but the consensus is that future advancements won't change most of XG's evaluations significantly. Maybe current XG will play at a PR of 0.5 compared to XG in 2050.
Astonishing!
These guys are definitly from another planet 😵
Some far off place in the backgammon galaxy
Their favorite music CD is: Joe Satriani's "Not Of This Earth" album! :)
@1:51:24 by Ueda says it ALL!!!
:o
Wild!
Mochi might be afraid that If he won Ueda might draw his samurai sword and cut his head off
The Optimus Prime 1:04:20
3.9 seconds!
1:05:32 "foreplay, uhh... Four-ply!"
LOL
Zdenek "I mean" Zizka :)
👍
Excellent coverage, the jokers in this match though do not alleviate the fact that the RNG Mersenne Twister is an outdated technology that hasn't been updated since 1997, they've surfed unchallenged for far too long, it doesn't pass multi angled sophisticated analysis. Modern RNG developers speak openly on this and say the software needs a scrambler patch to satisfy testing. The rigged dice calls may last longer than the T shirt stocks
I'm not a fan of this format. It's ridiculous to try to take the luck out of a game based on luck. Imagine if a chess player were punished for not making the computer move.
I tend to agree. You're graded against a computer AI and who determines which computer AI is the superior AI? Crazy last game though.
On the site, the "3-ply" bot -- whatever that means -- makes some head-scratching decisions. I like this setting. Chess is different. There's not nearly as much luck involved. Here, there's less reward for someone who is "luckier than good."
@@winthorpetrois The way I understand it is the "n-ply" is the number moves the computer looks ahead for each player. So for "2-ply" it rolls the dice for each player two moves when evaluating the position/move.
BG is "luckier" but the longer the games (i.e. 7pts. vs 21pts.) or match (i.e. number of games in the match) is the luck factor tends to average out and the superior player will usually prevail. Which unfortunately doesn't work to my advantage,
backgammon isn't a game based on luck though. The luck is in the dice roll, but after the dice are rolled it's 100% about logical reasoning and mathematics. Backgammon isn't about arbitrarily moving checkers around. Mathematically speaking, with every roll, there are correct moves and there are wrong moves. In this format, players have a lot of leeway for the most part in how they move if there is more than one decision that isn't an error. In the end, even if you don't play UBC format, there are calculations you need to make over the board to ensure that you are outplaying your opponent. Luck has very little to do with it. I'm not sure if you watch a lot of professional chess but it is certainly analyzed in a similar way as this. Granted, players don't receive points for playing correctly but there are entire books written analyzing the logic of chess.
@@MarkT1700 I said it's based on luck, not entirely dependent on luck. Big difference. The moves are decisions on how to manage the luck. This format tries to take the luck out. But who is that for? Poker is one of the most popular games and has just as much luck. I watch plenty of chess, and other than certain correspondence games where engines are allowed, computer analysis has nothing to do with the result of any match or tournament.