Thank you for reading my question, Paul. I’m 65. And yes, I took good care of my ears over time. Btw… an otorhinolaryngologist is an ENT (Ear, Nose & Throat) doctor.
I'm 65 and kind of regretting going to so many really loud gigs in my youth. It's definitely affected my hearing and given me tinnitus, although that has improved over the last few years.
Psychological, yup! I am in my early seventies and have been exposed to excessive noise levels along with cranking the knobs to “eleven” when I wanted to impress or just really get into the piece I’m listening to. Yes, the damage is done. I also used to repair band instruments for years, so I know and hear subtle things that most folks could care less about. But the point I’m trying to make is I have been training my ears over the years too. Serious musicians know their “axes” (ie. guitar, sax, oboe, trumpet, viola, cymbals, etc.) and can point out some very unique details between each instrument they own because each are so very unique. I do believe the human brain helps us cultivate what we have to work with. I’ll stop there so as not to go on and on about what many audiophiles know that feeds the obsession, that disease that keeps us looking for that combination, the one we are searching for.
With hyperacusis, your brain perceives sounds as loud regardless of their frequency - or whether the sound falls in the low range (like thunder rumbling), medium range (like human speech) or high range (like a siren or whistle).
I don't think it's anything to do with his hearing....He's just running away when his wife is doing the dishes just so he doesn't have to go and help her....
Reading the comments is very interesting. I had replied to another of your posts that at my age of 74, my hearing is gone above 8000 Hz in both ears and somewhat worse in the left ear. Years of driving a hot rod with side exhausts, attending rock concerts (Jimi Hendrix was my first at 19 years old), target shooting with earplugs that weren't meant for it and a career working around manufacturing environments have all taken their toll. My tinnitus is distracting, but manageable. So the lesson is: protect your hearing any way you can, hearing aids only amplify - they can't add frequencies you have lost and aren't effective at discernment in loud environments like restaurants, parties, etc. Maybe that's a project for PS Audio??
This is also referred to as "cocktail party hearing syndrome" - I have it... to the degree that I can get dizzy, disoriented and upset. It does tend to affect people who, when they get their hearing tested, it's really good - and yes, sometimes a bit older. You're right that there is a psychological element to it, even similar to the distractions caused by tinitus.
I have experienced this once, but I was drinking, and at the point I got quite tipsy/ drunk, it happened. The only tought I had was ; I have to get out of here, wth is happening? I t's like being in a carrousel of sound and it keeps spinning.
I have come to the conclusion that talking/hearing voices from many people and from different environments comes down to something I call "frequency overlap". This is where the same frequencies are duplicated from other people in a large restaurant or party environment and overlap each other due to frequency masking. For example, many people speaking at once causes similar frequencies to be reproduced at the same time. When this happens, it masks those frequencies and makes conversations more difficult to hear cleanly. I have found this out through experimentation. When in a crowded environment, try changing the octave of your voice. Ask someone to change there octave as well. I know, this sounds weird, but if someone changes there octave (higher or lower) I can hear every word with clarity. As for the clanging of the pots and pans, I assume that is high resonance frequencies. Everyone finds those higher resonance frequencies to be ear piercing. Also, ever notice that musicians avoid making music with too many resonant frequencies (higher amplitude)? There are some music tracks out there that have harsh resonant frequencies and they make my ears shrill! LOL.
Hearing linearity is dependent on spl. At 90db and up, our hearing is more linear i.e. flat from bass to mid to highs. Below 90 db, we are more sensitive to mids more than bass and highs.
Rather than just accepting our hearing is losing sensitivity in especially the upper treble, the question is, can't we do anything about it? Personally, I've come to the conclusion that adding 5dB at 12kHz (and above) of EQ can regain similar to 20 years ago listening experience on air and details. I call it "rejuvenation EQ". Some audiophiles might consider all EQ as evil, but reality is that modern DSP based EQ can do really well without concerns of added noise or distortion. Another age factor is how loud you play your music. Thanks to the equal loudness curves (Fletcher Munson), the age related effect of our hearing becoming more narrow-band further gets worsened when you listen at lower volumes. PS Audio makes awesome products but I wish they would admit to these realities and make a superior audiophile EQ solution. From demos I've done, people (audiophile) get blown away with how much improvement is possible.
I use Flare Calmer. I only take them off for listen to music. You can ear everything but downs a bit in the mid-range. Better life in the noise environments.
A factor is that as high frequency sensitivity drops that apparent loudness of the midrange will seem relatively greater. The F-M curves work against you even more in the mid area.
I noticed that too... maybe it's not a screwdriver....nothing PS Audio make has inaccessible screw holes that deep ...I'll say it's a magnet tip for picking up dropped screws or nuts ...
I have a cold water bone in my ears , It’s a bone that only grows in your ear if you spent a lot of time as a kid swimming and cold water like creeks. Anyway, I don’t know if you guys ever heard of that but it’s pretty crazy.
I get the same issues, but again, it isn't measured loss of hf. I have always had slight difficulty in hearing conversations, but I put that down to taking longer to get my brain into sync. My suspicion is that it is a generalised loss of sensitivity and that my ear-brain system turns up the gain so that you reach overload quicker. I also wonder if there is an auditory equivalent to a camera white balance so that there is an equaliser to make you perceive a flat response and that would make the boosted frequencies more prone to overload. I now get ear fatigue quicker than I used to even though I don't consider that I play music loud.
I walk out of church when the music starts. The sound “engineer” sets the volume at 95-100db. I have spoken to him about it, but he chuckled and walked away.
I suffer from CHS. Can’t Hear Sh$t and use two hearing aids BUT I can still appreciate the difference between bad audio and good. In fact even on my iPhone when I listen to the Octave Records streaming I can greatly appreciate the quality over other sources.
I wonder if some people have skull resonances at certain frequencies. A college friend and her mom both couldn't take some of Miles Davis's upper range of muted trumpet on (say) Someday My Prince Will Come. Hereditary?
When I was in hidgh school my high end was 19 KHz confirned by some self tests with an oscillator and low power amp and the inverters for fluorescent lights on the new generation of city buses. I havve several Radio Engineers Handbooks with published Fletcher-Munchian? equal loudness curves. The human ear responce is pretty flat to it's high limit down to about 300 Hz. Below that the sensitivity goes down and threshold of hearing rises to about 50 dB around 30 HZ. Classical music is less damaging for though it reches 95 dB that's inly bursts and some extended soft passages too. I have listened to rock but much fo that was progressive and employed many of the thchniques of classical. I an 79 and do have some tinnitus. It careams when the room is quiet. I jund of curious of PS audio demos through cell phones. I woukdclikr dynamic range cmpressor/expanders for late night listening.
I'm nearly 70 and I tried 15 khz on a frequency test on YT and I could hear it. A ten year old could hear 17 khz (but I couldn't hear a thing). And it was through $10 FR drivers (radically modified for more treble extension). 😅
I hope I look as good as good @ 76. Despite going too many loud concerts when young, my hearing at 65 is still pretty decent. But I too have a hard time understanding conversations in a noisy room.
Ear shape and spacing, as well as the inner components will have an effect on our ability to clearly detect phase and frequency differences. It's "simple physics." I LOVE my BBE sonic maximiser because it realigns and emphasizes the usual frequency ranges that typically are most affected by poor recording equipment, usage, room acoustics, and speaker shortcomings. It's not magic, but damn close.
Short answer: No. But try listening for a few seconds to any Serbian turbo-folk song and you will understand both misophonia and psychoacoustics better.
It's the specific sound of pots and pans. It hits some certain frequencies so it sounds louder. It's as horrible sound today at 36 as it was when I was a little child.
Hello, I'm 63 yo, and ihave problems with high frequency, i have my speakers ( bose 901) from 1990 and i was very satisfied. Now, it's like i have only bass and medium frequency, how do i shut corrected? Equaliser, dsp or to change the speaker, thank you for your answer. Pascal from Belgium
Sounds like their hearing is TOO sensitized. This is actually a thing, belive it or not. A hearing specialist would probably recommend more exposure to moderate sound levels.
IMHO it is a brain thing. Auditory processing disorder. My wife had a stroke. Along with pretty severe aphasia, she had auditory processing issues. In helping her through rehab I observed that she lost the ability to discriminate between sounds. Our environment has a high noise floor. We all ignore it and just hear stuff that is important to us like speech or sounds that warn of danger. Evolutionarily it was important to hear that lion sneaking up over the sound of the wind in the trees. In her case she heard overwhelming noise. Over time she learned to suppress the noise so she could focus on normal stuff. But the effort her brain had to exert on auditory discrimination would exhaust her after a hour or so leaving her compromised. We would walk into a grocery store and she'd become paralyzed within steps of the entrance. It was baffling. Then I realized it was the sound of all the chillers whirring away. It overwhelmed her brain and she couldn't do normal stuff like walking. Step outside and she'd regain normal function. What I realized from all this is that we all suffer from the brain power needed to combat noise pollution. It wears us down. It is irritating and distracting. I believe this is why poor digital CDPs were so irritating. Our brain works hard to take this noise and deliver it as normal sound. We get through it but it is not pleasant and we are fatigued. Turn it off our brain screams after an hour. But good digital or analogue sound soothing. A balm to our poor brain. Protect your hearing. Avoid unnecessary exposure to noise. I use very high end digital playback. I use noise cancelling headphones a lot the time and I sleep with ear plugs. Never felt better.
I cannot stand it when people bang around in the kitchen, throwing pots and pans and slamming cabinet doors. Worse is when working under the car and your helper insists on dropping the darn wrenches. Speaking of tools (not getting political) how about that impressive Philips screwdriver!
Thank you for reading my question, Paul. I’m 65. And yes, I took good care of my ears over time.
Btw… an otorhinolaryngologist is an ENT (Ear, Nose & Throat) doctor.
Try to have some ambient music that will mask the kitchen noise. Not serious music/listening. You need nature and silence for that.😊
I'm 65 and kind of regretting going to so many really loud gigs in my youth. It's definitely affected my hearing and given me tinnitus, although that has improved over the last few years.
Psychological, yup! I am in my early seventies and have been exposed to excessive noise levels along with cranking the knobs to “eleven” when I wanted to impress or just really get into the piece I’m listening to. Yes, the damage is done. I also used to repair band instruments for years, so I know and hear subtle things that most folks could care less about. But the point I’m trying to make is I have been training my ears over the years too. Serious musicians know their “axes” (ie. guitar, sax, oboe, trumpet, viola, cymbals, etc.) and can point out some very unique details between each instrument they own because each are so very unique. I do believe the human brain helps us cultivate what we have to work with. I’ll stop there so as not to go on and on about what many audiophiles know that feeds the obsession, that disease that keeps us looking for that combination, the one we are searching for.
With hyperacusis, your brain perceives sounds as loud regardless of their frequency - or whether the sound falls in the low range (like thunder rumbling), medium range (like human speech) or high range (like a siren or whistle).
*There is only one Paul on this planet. Long live Paul, wishing you best health* :-)
I don't think it's anything to do with his hearing....He's just running away when his wife is doing the dishes just so he doesn't have to go and help her....
Yes that’s what I do
😂😂😂😂
Reading the comments is very interesting. I had replied to another of your posts that at my age of 74, my hearing is gone above 8000 Hz in both ears and somewhat worse in the left ear. Years of driving a hot rod with side exhausts, attending rock concerts (Jimi Hendrix was my first at 19 years old), target shooting with earplugs that weren't meant for it and a career working around manufacturing environments have all taken their toll. My tinnitus is distracting, but manageable. So the lesson is: protect your hearing any way you can, hearing aids only amplify - they can't add frequencies you have lost and aren't effective at discernment in loud environments like restaurants, parties, etc. Maybe that's a project for PS Audio??
You tell my wife to be less bangy on the pots - you'll need to protect more than your ears.
This is also referred to as "cocktail party hearing syndrome" - I have it... to the degree that I can get dizzy, disoriented and upset. It does tend to affect people who, when they get their hearing tested, it's really good - and yes, sometimes a bit older. You're right that there is a psychological element to it, even similar to the distractions caused by tinitus.
I have experienced this once, but I was drinking, and at the point I got quite tipsy/ drunk, it happened. The only tought I had was ; I have to get out of here, wth is happening?
I t's like being in a carrousel of sound and it keeps spinning.
My hearing seems to have a “hole” at whatever frequency my wife is speaking. It started about 42 years ago and has progressed since.
@@larryeckerdt9750
I have come to the conclusion that talking/hearing voices from many people and from different environments comes down to something I call "frequency overlap". This is where the same frequencies are duplicated from other people in a large restaurant or party environment and overlap each other due to frequency masking. For example, many people speaking at once causes similar frequencies to be reproduced at the same time. When this happens, it masks those frequencies and makes conversations more difficult to hear cleanly. I have found this out through experimentation. When in a crowded environment, try changing the octave of your voice. Ask someone to change there octave as well. I know, this sounds weird, but if someone changes there octave (higher or lower) I can hear every word with clarity. As for the clanging of the pots and pans, I assume that is high resonance frequencies. Everyone finds those higher resonance frequencies to be ear piercing. Also, ever notice that musicians avoid making music with too many resonant frequencies (higher amplitude)? There are some music tracks out there that have harsh resonant frequencies and they make my ears shrill! LOL.
It also has to do with reflections in poorly dampened rooms. Your aging brain has trouble processing too many reflections at once.
@@haiguyse That could also play a part too. I agree.
Hearing linearity is dependent on spl. At 90db and up, our hearing is more linear i.e. flat from bass to mid to highs. Below 90 db, we are more sensitive to mids more than bass and highs.
Rather than just accepting our hearing is losing sensitivity in especially the upper treble, the question is, can't we do anything about it? Personally, I've come to the conclusion that adding 5dB at 12kHz (and above) of EQ can regain similar to 20 years ago listening experience on air and details. I call it "rejuvenation EQ". Some audiophiles might consider all EQ as evil, but reality is that modern DSP based EQ can do really well without concerns of added noise or distortion. Another age factor is how loud you play your music. Thanks to the equal loudness curves (Fletcher Munson), the age related effect of our hearing becoming more narrow-band further gets worsened when you listen at lower volumes. PS Audio makes awesome products but I wish they would admit to these realities and make a superior audiophile EQ solution. From demos I've done, people (audiophile) get blown away with how much improvement is possible.
Otolaryngologist - Ear, Nose & Throat Surgeon - one of my late relatives who was a keen audiophile practiced this specialty.
Fletcher-Munson effect? Basis of "loudness" compensation controls for low level listening.
I use Flare Calmer. I only take them off for listen to music. You can ear everything but downs a bit in the mid-range. Better life in the noise environments.
A factor is that as high frequency sensitivity drops that apparent loudness of the midrange will seem relatively greater. The F-M curves work against you even more in the mid area.
Nice screwdriver😊
omg I hadnt noticed
I noticed that too... maybe it's not a screwdriver....nothing PS Audio make has inaccessible screw holes that deep ...I'll say it's a magnet tip for picking up dropped screws or nuts ...
It would be helpful to point out that "hearing" and "noticing" various sounds, notes, etc., are two different things.
I have a cold water bone in my ears , It’s a bone that only grows in your ear if you spent a lot of time as a kid swimming and cold water like creeks. Anyway, I don’t know if you guys ever heard of that but it’s pretty crazy.
Rince youre sinus ...it works
I get the same issues, but again, it isn't measured loss of hf. I have always had slight difficulty in hearing conversations, but I put that down to taking longer to get my brain into sync.
My suspicion is that it is a generalised loss of sensitivity and that my ear-brain system turns up the gain so that you reach overload quicker.
I also wonder if there is an auditory equivalent to a camera white balance so that there is an equaliser to make you perceive a flat response and that would make the boosted frequencies more prone to overload.
I now get ear fatigue quicker than I used to even though I don't consider that I play music loud.
I walk out of church when the music starts. The sound “engineer” sets the volume at 95-100db. I have spoken to him about it, but he chuckled and walked away.
Too bad he doesn't seem to know a church from a nightclub.
Closing in on 70 I wish I had the information on protecting my hearing many years ago.
Hey Paul, I have a question too. What do you use that screw driver for?? 😂
Im 45 i kinda have this issue im thinking because i lost some of my top end hearing mids seem louder
I suffer from CHS. Can’t Hear Sh$t and use two hearing aids BUT I can still appreciate the difference between bad audio and good. In fact even on my iPhone when I listen to the Octave Records streaming I can greatly appreciate the quality over other sources.
I wonder if some people have skull resonances at certain frequencies. A college friend and her mom both couldn't take some of Miles Davis's upper range of muted trumpet on (say) Someday My Prince Will Come. Hereditary?
When I was in hidgh school my high end was 19 KHz confirned by some self tests with an oscillator and low power amp and the inverters for fluorescent lights on the new generation of city buses.
I havve several Radio Engineers Handbooks with published Fletcher-Munchian? equal loudness curves. The human ear responce is pretty flat to it's high limit down to about 300 Hz. Below that the sensitivity goes down and threshold of hearing rises to about 50 dB around 30 HZ.
Classical music is less damaging for though it reches 95 dB that's inly bursts and some extended soft passages too. I have listened to rock but much fo that was progressive and employed many of the thchniques of classical. I an 79 and do have some tinnitus. It careams when the room is quiet. I jund of curious of PS audio demos through cell phones. I woukdclikr dynamic range cmpressor/expanders for late night listening.
I'm nearly 70 and I tried 15 khz on a frequency test on YT and I could hear it. A ten year old could hear 17 khz (but I couldn't hear a thing). And it was through $10 FR drivers (radically modified for more treble extension). 😅
A tip to those who listen for extended time (regardless of SPL,) notching your eq down at or around 2K helps reduce ear fatigue.
I hope I look as good as good @ 76. Despite going too many loud concerts when young, my hearing at 65 is still pretty decent. But I too have a hard time understanding conversations in a noisy room.
Ya that dishes sound is terrible when its loud
Maybe the good Doc should consider doing the dishes and that would enable some control over the banging and crashing.
Ear shape and spacing, as well as the inner components will have an effect on our ability to clearly detect phase and frequency differences. It's "simple physics." I LOVE my BBE sonic maximiser because it realigns and emphasizes the usual frequency ranges that typically are most affected by poor recording equipment, usage, room acoustics, and speaker shortcomings. It's not magic, but damn close.
I’ve always wondered if there is a correlation between being an audiophile and misophonia and other sound related disorders.
Short answer: No.
But try listening for a few seconds to any Serbian turbo-folk song and you will understand both misophonia and psychoacoustics better.
@@spacealien2174 do you now of any studies that explore this?
It's the specific sound of pots and pans. It hits some certain frequencies so it sounds louder. It's as horrible sound today at 36 as it was when I was a little child.
Hello, I'm 63 yo, and ihave problems with high frequency, i have my speakers ( bose 901) from 1990 and i was very satisfied. Now, it's like i have only bass and medium frequency, how do i shut corrected? Equaliser, dsp or to change the speaker, thank you for your answer. Pascal from Belgium
this is a crazy screwdriver you have at your left 😮
What do you use that long screwdriver for?
It is hyperacusis he has.
What couldn't hear you louder please
This guy has tinnitus !
Sounds like their hearing is TOO sensitized. This is actually a thing, belive it or not. A hearing specialist would probably recommend more exposure to moderate sound levels.
You get about the same effects when you're hypersensitive or have ADHD.
I lost my comment
IMHO it is a brain thing. Auditory processing disorder.
My wife had a stroke. Along with pretty severe aphasia, she had auditory processing issues. In helping her through rehab I observed that she lost the ability to discriminate between sounds. Our environment has a high noise floor. We all ignore it and just hear stuff that is important to us like speech or sounds that warn of danger. Evolutionarily it was important to hear that lion sneaking up over the sound of the wind in the trees.
In her case she heard overwhelming noise. Over time she learned to suppress the noise so she could focus on normal stuff. But the effort her brain had to exert on auditory discrimination would exhaust her after a hour or so leaving her compromised. We would walk into a grocery store and she'd become paralyzed within steps of the entrance. It was baffling. Then I realized it was the sound of all the chillers whirring away. It overwhelmed her brain and she couldn't do normal stuff like walking. Step outside and she'd regain normal function.
What I realized from all this is that we all suffer from the brain power needed to combat noise pollution. It wears us down. It is irritating and distracting. I believe this is why poor digital CDPs were so irritating. Our brain works hard to take this noise and deliver it as normal sound. We get through it but it is not pleasant and we are fatigued. Turn it off our brain screams after an hour. But good digital or analogue sound soothing. A balm to our poor brain.
Protect your hearing. Avoid unnecessary exposure to noise. I use very high end digital playback. I use noise cancelling headphones a lot the time and I sleep with ear plugs. Never felt better.
I cannot stand it when people bang around in the kitchen, throwing pots and pans and slamming cabinet doors. Worse is when working under the car and your helper insists on dropping the darn wrenches. Speaking of tools (not getting political) how about that impressive Philips screwdriver!
Always preferred the vodka and orange screwdriver.
Might be adult Autism
Yes… sensitivities like this are one aspect of ASD.
My wife would agree with you on that one. She is a psychotherapist and autism is her specialty.
@@l.ralphmellon1716 my wife thinks i have it. I am very sensitive to certain noises as well