Volume - Low Vs. High (Pragmatic Bodybuilding & Believe Collab)

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  • Опубліковано 7 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 217

  • @uchihaitachiakatsuki5164
    @uchihaitachiakatsuki5164 7 місяців тому +28

    00:00 🤔 Discussing the significant differences in training volume between two bodybuilding approaches.
    00:26 🗣 Common confusion among viewers about varying volumes in training routines.
    00:57 📊 Volume in training is highly individualized; no universal volume fits all.
    01:25 🔍 Coaching starts by assessing current volume and progress before adjusting.
    02:22 🏋 Jeff's typical weekly volume is 6-8 sets for most muscle groups, with variations for specific parts.
    03:04 💪 Eric's training involves much higher volume, such as 45 sets for triceps weekly.
    04:10 📏 Direct comparison of quad training volume highlights Eric's significantly higher volume.
    05:03 🔄 Efficient volume management is crucial for recovery and effectiveness.
    06:00 🔄 Fast recovery rates allow Eric to handle higher volumes without feeling fatigued.
    07:07 💯 Jeff emphasizes training with full intention and effort for each rep.
    08:01 🛠 Jeff's training involves intentional, controlled reps focusing on muscle engagement.
    09:08 🔍 Both Jeff and Eric train with high effort, but Jeff's lower volume is by necessity, not choice.
    10:45 🔬 Starting with efficient, low volume before increasing is recommended for progress.
    11:54 🧠 Individualized training is key; one size does not fit all in volume recommendations.
    13:01 📚 Research shows varied volume responses; averages don't apply to every individual.
    14:11 📊 Studies indicate different responses to training volume based on individual genetics and recovery capabilities.
    15:48 🧩 Coaching adapts volume to individual needs rather than adhering to universal guidelines.
    16:02 🌟 Training adaptability varies among individuals, influencing volume capacity and benefits.
    17:10 🧬 Genetic factors and individual history affect response to training volume.
    18:22 🔄 Jeff and Eric have different training histories, affecting their current volume needs.
    19:01 🏆 Jeff's lower volume training resulted from past high-volume approaches and personal adaptations.
    21:48 📉 Eric's upper body plateaued with lower volume training, showing different responses between his upper and lower body.
    22:30 💪 Switching to higher volume, Eric saw regression in his shoulder press strength.
    23:10 🏋‍♂ Eric's lower body continued progressing with low volume, highlighting individual variation in response.
    24:05 🔄 Experimentation with different training paradigms and periods led Eric to discover the need for higher volume for his upper body.
    25:13 🚀 Eric's upper body responded significantly to higher volume, surpassing previous size and strength levels.
    25:40 🏆 Consistent higher volume training led Eric to achieve his peak bench press.
    26:06 🛠 Jeff learned that too much volume caused fatigue and didn't improve his physique, leading him to focus on quality and performance.
    26:20 🔍 Both Eric and Jeff emphasize learning what works best through experimentation and avoiding dogmatic approaches.
    27:18 🧪 Gradual increases in volume are recommended to acclimate and determine individual response effectively.
    27:58 🌱 Increase volume only when plateaued, ensuring other training aspects are optimized first.
    28:13 🗓 Conduct multiple 3-6 month experiments to find the most effective training volume for sustained progress.

  • @realbenmaynard6019
    @realbenmaynard6019 7 місяців тому +13

    Woahhh! A collab between two of my favorite series on UA-cam?! What a great way to start my Saturday!

  • @sxhrgvs
    @sxhrgvs 7 місяців тому +5

    Really interesting discussion. In my 50s now and still not sure what works best for me. This helps in terms of thinking about it though. Thanks guys.

  • @17jnewman
    @17jnewman 7 місяців тому +15

    Comments for the algo because you gents deserve it after all of these years!❤🎉

  • @GVS
    @GVS 7 місяців тому +27

    Let's get the lads a biopsy!
    Just kidding, that involves giving up gainz.

  • @petebullard5982
    @petebullard5982 7 місяців тому +6

    Flexible mindsets towards training styles combined with videos of both in world class shape - great video 🤝💪

  • @kban77
    @kban77 7 місяців тому +54

    I'd like to know some of the mechanisms and genetics of high vs low volume people.

    • @gamerkyle14
      @gamerkyle14 7 місяців тому +3

      16:00

    • @outdoor_-journey8603
      @outdoor_-journey8603 7 місяців тому

      Fiber type proportion and voluntary activation percentages play a very big role in tolerable volume

    • @kban77
      @kban77 7 місяців тому +2

      Fibre type maybe. But that isn’t exactly what i meant. I meant the genetic influences to in cell repair and recovery specifics. Not just thr fibre type

    • @94EyeEagle
      @94EyeEagle 7 місяців тому +3

      iirc, one mechanism that has supporting evidence is ribosomal biogenesis. One research found that people who have more ribosomes (essentially where protein synthesis happens in a cell) tend to response better with higher volumes.

    • @max12244
      @max12244 7 місяців тому +11

      Also recovery I guess, some people can't recover very well and reach a systemic threshold pretty quickly. I'm the type of guy who gets stressed easily and can't recover enough if I do more than ~12 sets per body part. So I do around 5-10. But very close to failure (never less than 8 RPE). The most difficult part when you train with low volume is the exercise selection. You really have to pick the best exercises for you (at a given time) because you don't do a lot of sets.
      Might be different for weak points though.
      Also, what happens outside of the gym impacts training, I mean if you play basketball 3 days a week and train 3 days a week good luck for your 20 sets per body part

  • @seawhales1000
    @seawhales1000 6 місяців тому +1

    Starting at low volumes and building it up per muscle group, or exercise makes the most sense to me. 10:40

  • @griffingeode
    @griffingeode 7 місяців тому +1

    I love that Jeff mentioned diet when reviewing past history. Changing multiple variables makes it difficult to draw conclusions.
    I'm currently enjoying less sets per workout while hitting the same body parts frequently in a week; but I am also a big fan of gradually adjusting and pushing those limits.

  • @lucasjay1000
    @lucasjay1000 7 місяців тому +3

    Can 100% relate with Eric. 16 years of training and have finally come to the realization I just require more volume on upperbody to make progress. I great progress overall on bro splits, then did upper lower powerlifting splits and legs continued to grow while upperbody regressed continuously. Ppl, Arnold split, or bro split seem to work the best for me who’s upper needs a lot of volume and lower needs much less

    • @ew-zd1th
      @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

      Thats interesting. Would you say in the Bro Split your Recovery IS better And you grown more than on ppl or the Arnold Split?

    • @lucasjay1000
      @lucasjay1000 7 місяців тому

      @@ew-zd1th I prefer the Arnold split because I like doing upperbody 2x a week but legs do great with 1x per week. I usually do chest/ back day, delts/arms day, leg day, full upperbody day.

    • @lucasjay1000
      @lucasjay1000 7 місяців тому +1

      @BombSquad.MP4 If you’ve done low volume high intensity for 5+ years and have made no significant progress. May be a good idea to throw in a little more volume. For my upperbody to make any progress I literally have to do medium/high volume and most sets to failure. This is after 16 years of lifting though so not useful info for noobs.

  • @postworld1185
    @postworld1185 7 місяців тому +2

    Jeff, You've may have tried this. I've been lifting many years. I love LV and always get wrecked too. Lately, I've been doing minimal WU's then knock out a top set (try to PR to failure/ 10-15 rep range). Additionally-2 days a week I drop all lifts 50% & just do pump sets to get in the volume Eric gets in per wk. Its so light it doesn't seem to affect recovery. I'm no more wrecked with the additional 2 light days.. Its working.

  • @azulsimmons1040
    @azulsimmons1040 7 місяців тому +2

    Good discussion. I'm not a volume guy. I just feel terrible and have terrible recovery with volume. It brings me back to the fast versus slow twitch fiber discussion as even when I was young I was terrible at distance running and good at sprinting. I know over time I could probably adapt to more volume or distance running, but I don't enjoy it. So no point in pursuing it as I'll just quit lifting due to boredom as volume bores the living crap out of me. When I work out, I want to feel some heavy weight and see some progress on the stack or bar as often as possible. Increasing the number of reps is fine as I know that will likely lead to increased weight, but if that was my only increase I would get grow very bored.

  • @adamsloane1748
    @adamsloane1748 7 місяців тому +2

    A great conversation. I learned a lot. Thank you!

  • @TeresMajor96
    @TeresMajor96 7 місяців тому +2

    love this collab vid! it's got more casual vibe than the podcasts but also gives lots of lessons :D

  • @DanNixon-FF
    @DanNixon-FF 7 місяців тому +3

    GREAT discussion guys, very eye opening and informative

  • @brianbadonde8700
    @brianbadonde8700 7 місяців тому +21

    a lot of genes involved in recovery and hypertrophy, it's safe to say no 2 people are identical

    • @krane15
      @krane15 7 місяців тому

      Genes overall, but more specifically hormones.

    • @brianbadonde8700
      @brianbadonde8700 6 місяців тому +1

      @@krane15 no it isn't actually, the guy with higher testosterone doesn't always gain muscle easier or look more muscular, how sensitive you are to the testosterone you produce is more important and how many androgen receptors you have in the muscle, some guys can inject lots of testosterone and still not look impressive cuz they a low number of androgen receptors, but that's just one pathway

  • @erric288
    @erric288 7 місяців тому +3

    I find that I'm like Eric, my upper body needs a lot of volume to move the needle at all, and my lower body tends to do fine on very low volumes. I've attempted higher volumes with lower body exercises, but my knees and low back give out before the muscles really have a chance to respond. The very high loads involved also take a lot of systemic recovery resources away from the rest of my training. So I end up focusing more on quality reps with slow eccentrics and pauses to milk whatever volume I can tolerate in the lower body. For the upper body, the only upper limit seems to be tendonitis if the loads get too high too fast in a meso. My problem is I just don't have the time to do 4-6 days a week to get that volume for the upper body. Thanks for the discussion.

    • @troy3423
      @troy3423 7 місяців тому

      Lower the weight and raise the reps? Perhaps find exercises that don't bother your elbows

    • @erric288
      @erric288 7 місяців тому

      @troy3423 that's what I do, basically staying in higher rep ranges and finding exercises that don't aggravate my shoulder especially. I was just saying that is the upper limit for my upper body volume, but it is much higher than what I can handle vis-a-vis lower body volume.

    • @troy3423
      @troy3423 7 місяців тому

      @erric288 gotcha. I do think responding to lower volume is a blessing.

  • @Sparksnorthern
    @Sparksnorthern 7 місяців тому +1

    Great discourse. I'm halfway through so not sure if it comes up but Id like to hear a narrative shift around people not needing to fear volume at the cost of recovering/fatigue. I think we all can handle a lot more volume than we think.

    • @troy3423
      @troy3423 7 місяців тому

      I'm just like Jeff. I've tried high volume approaches and I just spin my wheels. 12 sets of quads/wk is about the max I can handle without burning out.

  • @richardtrass
    @richardtrass 7 місяців тому +3

    That old footage of Jeff shows just how massive he was (is). I actually prefer that look to stage lean tbh. That’s the look that’s going to give physical presence. Impressive

    • @krane15
      @krane15 7 місяців тому +1

      @19:10 An example of a true look long term. As opposed tot he transitory state of being stage ready.

  • @vicenteiranzo3483
    @vicenteiranzo3483 7 місяців тому +1

    Very helpful as I am currently working on finding where I fall in regards to volume. There’s a lot of nuance in body building and I have been confused. At first it looks like team low volume vs team high volume. Now I see you just gotta give it some experimentation. Thanks.

  • @SwoffBass
    @SwoffBass 6 місяців тому

    This was fantastic. Thanks for this video and what it reveals and teaches. This variation in responsiveness to volume explains a lot of what I’ve experienced and helps me to make some adjustments.
    Thanks again!

  • @Brayden-c9o
    @Brayden-c9o 6 місяців тому +1

    So helpful. Thanks so much guys.

  • @lorenzoojeda1680
    @lorenzoojeda1680 7 місяців тому +5

    Jesus christ Eric, that is a ton amount of volume! How do u still manage to keep your motivation given the busy life you have and coupled with the fact that you are already an advanced athlete?!

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +22

      Hahaha, don't I know it man. I love to see progress, I love to push myself, and the fact that I'm finally competing at the level that I always wanted to all help...plus I'm a very one dimensional person, LOL, my life is all about lifting because I just love lifting! I coach it, teach it, study it, write about it, talk about, philophize about, and learn the history of it!

    • @RonMexico527
      @RonMexico527 2 місяці тому

      @@ericrhelms Eric, what is the consensus on training a muscle 2 days in a row? Noticed you’ll do that with arms quite a bit.

    • @Team3DMJ
      @Team3DMJ  2 місяці тому +3

      @@RonMexico527good question! 1) I train arms directly on Tue, Thu, Sat and I have a Wednesday off day and Friday is only legs, and Monday is chest/back/shoulders. So it’s just Tuesday where I have some overlap from indirect work the day prior.
      Regarding the consensus of training muscle groups back to back, it’s not something that’s been particularly well explored in research but there is some data on “weekend warriors” and within most typical volume ranges, which is all that’s been studied, it might inhibit performance on the subsequent a bit, but you can still adapt to it and make gains just fine. Anecdotally, it very much comes down to the dose. Big difference between doing 12 sets to failure two days in a row and 4 sets to a 2 RIR. Ideally you want to distribute training in a week to have the most productive sessions possible when you come in.

    • @RonMexico527
      @RonMexico527 2 місяці тому

      @@Team3DMJ Thank you! How long did you stick with a particular amount of volume before you determined it wasn’t enough, and how much did you increase it by when doing so? Usually as intermediates we start around Jeff’s volume for most body parts, but curious how long/hard you try to make a given volume work before dialing up the volume.

  • @tomztomasz506
    @tomztomasz506 7 місяців тому +1

    Eric's deltoids on these hammer curls look amazing. In comparison - mine look subpar. I need to step up my shoulder game...

  • @sheasydoesit
    @sheasydoesit 7 місяців тому +2

    Awesome video guys, thanks for the insights!

  • @riverludington5293
    @riverludington5293 4 місяці тому

    It's also fascinating that we assume that our entire body responds the same to volume. In recent years I have discovered that my pushing work just requires more volume. My lower body lifts on the other hand progress excellently with wildly low volume.

  • @bigcson
    @bigcson 7 місяців тому +2

    Great video guys!

  • @andyatch33
    @andyatch33 7 місяців тому +1

    Awesome discussion! Thanks

  • @chrishantulik100
    @chrishantulik100 7 місяців тому +9

    I’m with Jeff
    I CAN’T Recover from anymore that 1 Set to Failure and 1 Drop Set (Upper Lower 3 Day workout) I Get Snappy,Tired,Grumpy And just Don’t want to Do Anything
    Chris from Manchester England

    • @Han-nk3io
      @Han-nk3io 7 місяців тому +5

      That is because you grinding too much. it cause a lot of Systemic fatigue that is why you feel grumpy, tired. I used to get that feeling from doing low volume failure training. I used to do 1 set an exercise to failure but cause me to feel tired sleepy all the time even though i am on 500 surplus and 10 hours of sleep. I started to pull back and doing a double progression model so i wouldn't have to grind so much, i feel so much better each session even though i am training so much more from 3 times a week UPPER LOWER to a torso limbs split 6 days a week.

    • @AK47_.
      @AK47_. 7 місяців тому

      100% with you Chris. How old are you. I’m from the UK also btw.

    • @Frag1ty
      @Frag1ty 7 місяців тому

      @@Han-nk3io Menno debunked the existence of systemic fatigue

    • @Han-nk3io
      @Han-nk3io 7 місяців тому

      @@Frag1ty Systemic fatugue or CNS fatigue is just a name . It is fatugue in general. Menno recommendation in impratical because people have live out side the gym.

    • @Han-nk3io
      @Han-nk3io 7 місяців тому

      @BombSquad.MP4 No i am not saying that working out 6 times a week is less stressful. My point is that multiple sets with less intensity is less stressful than doing all out failure even with 1 set. Because the fact is all champions strength athletes train hard but not to failure for multiple sets, Only bodybuilders on gear cling to the idea of failure training to make them feel special.

  • @ParvParashar
    @ParvParashar 5 місяців тому

    Absolutely loved the video! Great discussion. 🙌

  • @yaroslav64
    @yaroslav64 6 місяців тому

    Excellent video guys, love the conversation

  • @Eniovrolix
    @Eniovrolix 7 місяців тому +1

    I have the almost the same experience as you eric need more volume for upper body and less for lower body but for me it was the opposite my legs where sticks dropped the volume on legs and they blew up and the same for rdls i made prs every week through my bulk

  • @Loyaltyinthisbusiness
    @Loyaltyinthisbusiness 7 місяців тому +2

    Thank you for the great content

  • @FrogmortonHotchkiss
    @FrogmortonHotchkiss 7 місяців тому +3

    An important question that I wish would get addressed more: does 'optimal' (whatever that is for the individual) get you to a higher place or to the same place quicker?
    For example, if I'm better-suited to low/high volume, does picking the right approach matter if I'm not in a hurry?

    • @94EyeEagle
      @94EyeEagle 6 місяців тому

      I think that answering that question almost certainly needs to involve experimenting with either approach in a meaninful amount of time. So, in your case, you still need to take time and effort to find your own "optimal" approach. Just my 2 cents.

    • @94EyeEagle
      @94EyeEagle 6 місяців тому

      Rewatching the video, I think Eric did (partially) address this question, that (paraphrasing) before attempting to determine your own "optimal" volume, you will need to work on technique efficiency, movement quality, and intensity first. And you also most likely will be better off starting at a lower Volume, work on the aforementioned factors, observe your recovery and gains, then if and when a plateau happens, decide to add Volume

    • @FrogmortonHotchkiss
      @FrogmortonHotchkiss 6 місяців тому

      @94EyeEagle I've done it all over many years, so it's more theoretical interest for me at this point.

    • @ck-rd2ce
      @ck-rd2ce Місяць тому

      @@94EyeEagle Eric's comment of adding volume when a plateau is reached is honestly backwards. A plateau simply means there is already too much volume/fatigue present in the plan, demonstrated by the inability to progressive overload, and it would beehove you to reduce volume.

  • @franciscojaviergonzalezjim87
    @franciscojaviergonzalezjim87 7 місяців тому +1

    Amathing video , make more of this type of content❤

  • @fortressofswolitude
    @fortressofswolitude 7 місяців тому +2

    Great video/information. 👏👏

  • @andrewsiero9468
    @andrewsiero9468 7 місяців тому +1

    Good vid. Jeff’s back is awesome 👏

  • @brettleonard6187
    @brettleonard6187 3 місяці тому +1

    I find i dont need as much volume if i step up intensity or just go to failure and then do rest pause 😊

  • @Pingvinicecream
    @Pingvinicecream 4 місяці тому

    At the beginning I was very intrigued. Now I'm scared that I need more volume lol. I really really hope the recovery needs smooth out towards less volume as I get more advanced.

  • @ZeedDesign
    @ZeedDesign 7 місяців тому +2

    I wonder what cues you look for in assessing recovery. Ability to retake the same weight? Mental fatigue? Soreness? General weakness?

    • @ew-zd1th
      @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

      Good Question

    • @ck-rd2ce
      @ck-rd2ce Місяць тому

      If you're seeing progressive overload occuring regularly (that definition will depend on your training advancement), then you're dialed in

  • @cole_p_warren
    @cole_p_warren 7 місяців тому +3

    12:12 This is similar to my experience too. 3 sets of flies and bench and my chest would be consistently sore for 2 or 3 days. I thought I was Dr Mike Isratel when it came to volume. But then afrter I decied to try pushing volume and working out when I'm still a little sore, repeated bout effect came in and I was able to double my bench volume and still recover on time.

    • @ew-zd1th
      @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

      Thats very interesting. I am sore in Front Delt and Chest. From 5 6 Sets Chest pressing (or Chest Press and flys) and i barely Recover from it. Have your Body now Adapted to the Doms? So that eben with more Volume your Doms are away in the Same time or even faster?

    • @cole_p_warren
      @cole_p_warren 7 місяців тому +1

      @@ew-zd1th Yep. Doing 6 sets of chest with 1-3 RIR I'd usually be sore for about 2 days. Over time the DOMS would be about the same, sometimes lingering longer sometimes going away faster.
      After doing my normal excercise when I still have a little bit of DOMS (but not a lot), I was able to slowly increase the frequency until I was able to recover (at least DOMS wise) with double the weekly volume as before.

  • @benbernanke7701
    @benbernanke7701 7 місяців тому

    Made progress from both styles.
    Hard to tell with your own n=1 which one is better when they both seem to do OK.

    • @douglaskeywood
      @douglaskeywood 7 місяців тому

      I feel this. Have found the sweet spot for legs. But for the upper body, both moderate and low volume seem to work. Difficult to know what else might be factoring in aswell. Especially when considering certain body parts seem to recover faster and desire more frequency and volume than others. Hard to program for that for sure.

  • @krane15
    @krane15 7 місяців тому +1

    I have news for you, it has to do with the individual that matters the most. Some people just respond better to volume than less and vice versa. Also keep in mind that we have two opposite body types.

  • @wesrobinson7506
    @wesrobinson7506 7 місяців тому

    Great video! I enjoy hearing on individual differences to achieve your freaky fysiques.
    I think it would be great if you guys could do an in-depth video on how to find individualized volume needs. Like is there a protocol that you guys follow and checklist?

  • @TheMashinarium
    @TheMashinarium 5 місяців тому

    Видео шикарное, ещё одно подтверждение что люди разные) и надо подбирать под себя и пробовать, а не биться головой о стену одного и того же

  • @jonpageable
    @jonpageable 22 дні тому

    I’d love to know the recommended range of pure direct sets. I guess some kind of study just doing isolation exercises. The problem with compound exercises is the contribution of indirect muscles is so different person to person

  • @rachananihalani9723
    @rachananihalani9723 7 місяців тому +1

    Good one lads

  • @MrSHOT321
    @MrSHOT321 7 місяців тому +1

    need to watch this in imax

  • @georgesarreas5509
    @georgesarreas5509 7 місяців тому +1

    Thank you sirs

  • @fichshreds2661
    @fichshreds2661 6 місяців тому

    Very interesting stuff 👍

  • @Kuchipop
    @Kuchipop 7 місяців тому +2

    So if loads are going up, don’t worry about doing too little?
    What if you progressed reps/load on one set per week? Clearly that isn’t enough for gaining muscle despite performance increasing. How do you determine actual muscle gain when pictures can be slow and deceiving?
    Is something like starting with 6-10 sets, make sure performance increases, and only add volume if performance isn’t increasing, you’re recovering and all recovery variables are on point? (Sleep, food, etc)

    • @JimmyStruthers-lb3sn
      @JimmyStruthers-lb3sn 7 місяців тому +2

      One set is absolutely enough for gaining muscle. Literally over 50 percent of the total possible gains come from the first set.

    • @Kuchipop
      @Kuchipop 7 місяців тому

      @@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn gotcha so you think starting with like 6 sets per week and only adding if performance stalls is solid?

    • @ck-rd2ce
      @ck-rd2ce Місяць тому

      @@Kuchipop If your progressive overload stops at 6, reduce to 4 and watch it take off again. Adding more sets is backwards and will just add more work/fatigue to recover from.

  • @thatsit7933
    @thatsit7933 4 місяці тому

    it's Mentzer vs Schwarzenegger... again
    but i have a theory,
    you need high volume if you are more of an ectomorph because of the higher slow-twitch muscle fibers
    and if you are more of an endomorph, you can train low volume/high intensity because of the higher fast-twitch muscle fibers

  • @mab963
    @mab963 7 місяців тому

    Wealth of information! @Eric Helms: You mentioned that your upper body developement really only started taking off once you started doing 10 sets of presses and pulls (5 vertical, 5 horizontal each) per session, 3x/week. Out of curiosity: Would you mind sharing your routine from back then to give us some more context?

  • @adilkhaled3957
    @adilkhaled3957 6 місяців тому

    Keep it up guys

  • @Conversations-o7n
    @Conversations-o7n 2 місяці тому +2

    With orher words; Some people should stick to endurance sport and some for strength sports. Otherwise it will be extremely hard if you choose a sport you are not buildt for!

  • @Sportbyscience-zr8yz
    @Sportbyscience-zr8yz 7 місяців тому +1

    thank's a lot for this video. Indirect volume is considered as 1 set for muscle or probably 0,5? thank you very much

  • @gerym341
    @gerym341 7 місяців тому +1

    Very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing

  • @TypicallyUniqueOfficial
    @TypicallyUniqueOfficial 7 місяців тому +1

    I hate that I respond so well to volume.
    I wish I could do 3-8 hard sets a week then pig out and sleep to grow. I can’t say that lower volume didn’t work at all for me, but the muscle and strength I gain with higher volumes is a night and day difference.
    It sucks because I love training like Dorian Yates and the trendy low volume you see these days.

  • @clinthajjar102
    @clinthajjar102 7 місяців тому +1

    Overreaching: good bad ugly etc thanks

  • @ew-zd1th
    @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

    Question to Eric. The time when you shrunk in 2011, did you experience doms? And today are you experince any doms from your high volume? Amd if are you training with the doms or are you 100 recovered each Session?

  • @garcialegion1971
    @garcialegion1971 2 місяці тому

    When i was in my 20s i train high volume 20 up to 40 sets now in my 30s i can only train low volume my recovery got so low I'll over train some times with low volume training but i love not to spend to much time at the gym 😁👍

  • @jakoblochner4784
    @jakoblochner4784 5 місяців тому

    Question: If I were to try higher volume (at the Moment I do about 3 Sets per Bodypart twice a week, very high intensity, positive & negative failure) - would you Go down with intensity or try to remain it high and try to acclimate? Would you do higher reps for easier recovery?

  • @pandajohn5911
    @pandajohn5911 4 дні тому

    My bro Jeff waited 15 years for a replacement of that broken bar..✊🏼😔 thoughts and prayers

  • @Healp145
    @Healp145 7 місяців тому +2

    23:11 First time i’ve heard eric wheeze like that 😂

  • @ew-zd1th
    @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому +4

    How the hell could eric do 16 sets harmstring, with just 8 per week i got sore every day. How is this possible?

    • @ConorF727
      @ConorF727 7 місяців тому +3

      He says he isn’t sandbagging, I find that hard to believe.

    • @jakehickman_
      @jakehickman_ 7 місяців тому +1

      He built different

  • @Wolloiz
    @Wolloiz 7 місяців тому

    Cool Video guys! Thank you! I´ve a Question for Eric´s Volume:
    So the direct sets for Shoulders (Mid and Side) are 13 and 26 from Chest Volume?
    And the direct sets for Biceps 8 (28 from Back) and Triceps 6 (26 Chest and 13 Shoulders)?
    It´s not entirely clear! Thank you!

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +2

      The range of 13-26 for shoulders is because I don't have the same volume for each head of the deltoid, as rear, middle and anterior delts are hit by different exercises. The indirect work for triceps is any pressing or straight arm pullover/pressdown, the indirect work for biceps is any row/pulldown.

  • @MSEDable
    @MSEDable 3 місяці тому

    Maybe I miss it, but I was wondering if the volume is the same, is there really a big difference with a frequency of x or x per muscle per week? What does Jeff Alberts do for his low volume program?

  • @MrLexisbill
    @MrLexisbill 7 місяців тому

    Looking at videos of Jeff he does low volume with heavy weight which builds muscle and team 3d does moderate weight for high volume they all builds muscle it just up to you to find which best works for you there's no best worksout routine .

  • @latman1
    @latman1 7 місяців тому +1

    How much does age and natural testosterone levels affect how one can handle this🤔 or being ecto,meso,endo?🤔

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +2

      Testosterone levels don't seem to predict anything related to volume or responsiveness to training (just look at women's similar response to RT in terms of relative % increase in muscle size and strength to men) and ecto/meso/endo aren't clearly defined, no data links anthropometrics to workload capacity or responsiveness, and in coaching practice, we've seen no correlation between bone structure or body fat. This isn't something easily predictable in my experience.

    • @latman1
      @latman1 7 місяців тому

      @ericrhelms You're speaking over my head in that response. 🤪I hate to say I don't even know what RT means in the women's comparison. But what I do know is I've been training and competing for over 35 years now and one of my training partners was Skip Lacour, and what I've learned from all these years is that it seems to all be genetics. we'll be arguing until the cows come home, whether Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman did it better but they both tore up their bodies in the end. I have rarely seen a natural bodybuilder make changes to their physique much after he's been training 5 years or so regardless of the style training that he's doing. And nowadays it's hard to believe with the AI, Photoshop, sarms, peptides🤣 every generation will have their Arnold and Metzer🤔 at least those guys didn't tear up their bodies though.😁

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +1

      @@latman1 sorry RT is just “resistance training” my bad, spent too much time writing today and using acronyms!

    • @latman1
      @latman1 7 місяців тому

      @ericrhelms I'm sure you're aware that females have different levels of testosterone also. In my experience sometimes you'll find natural females that have a little peach fuzz on their face and they're just naturally more muscular and responsive to weight training. I haven't known enough of them to figure out if there's any difference in their training styles or if that would even make a difference I think their body just responds to weight training in general no different than men with more testosterone whether its synthetic or not.

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +2

      @@latman1 absolutely they do, but my point is that despite having a fraction of the testosterone of men, women respond similarly to men, on average in terms of their relative gains in muscle size once they start training. There have also been numerous studies where they look at high and low responders and see if baseline testosterone levels predict high and low response, and they don't. However, you might have more baseline muscularity (albeit only to a small degree), prior to ever training with higher natural test levels, but its not a major player at normal physiological ranges.

  • @dory_m78
    @dory_m78 7 місяців тому

    Is it true that it takes your body 6 hrs to fill up glycogen levels after eating?
    From my humble experience ive found that if i train in the morning the first meal (300grams of carbs)takes me at least 3 hrs, and if i train in the afternoon- the 3rd mea(75grams of carbs)l would take 2hrs

  • @Mikaelman
    @Mikaelman 4 місяці тому

    On like incline bench do you guys count those as indirect sets for shoulders since the front delt is also doing a job there?

  • @ew-zd1th
    @ew-zd1th 6 місяців тому +1

    Have you seen evidence that people which respond poorly in general, can get better muscle gainz with more volume?

  • @ew-zd1th
    @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

    I wonder, my lats never sore even when i do lenghten partial supersets, butvmy calfes are sore from 2sets for 5days. What wozld you do in this case foracimum gainz? How can reduce the doms?

  • @trinitylahtibikinipro
    @trinitylahtibikinipro 6 місяців тому

    One problem I run into is I need more volume for certain muscles, but my joints and connective tissues won’t let me. :(

  • @Nicholas19823
    @Nicholas19823 7 місяців тому

    This absolutely blows my mind guys , 26 sets a week for the chest? Are they all working sets? I’m currently doing doing X3 direct sets a week on my chest ….

    • @ew-zd1th
      @ew-zd1th 7 місяців тому

      I would have crazy Doms in Front Delts and Chest If i do this, hard to Imagine that i can benefit from it

  • @flow1188
    @flow1188 7 місяців тому +1

    love high Volume with high intensity. I grow very fast since.

  • @NopeNope78
    @NopeNope78 7 місяців тому

    Question for Eric: when you were coaches by Alberto, what was (approximately) your weekly volume per muscle group per week? I know Alberto is also a fan of low volume so I’m curious if he noticed you were a higher volume responder and put you on 20+set.

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +2

      Berto hasn't programmed my training for me, and Berto wouldn't describe himself as a fan of low volume - I doubt Jeff would either, and I also wouldn't describe myself as a fan of hight volume. We all follow a similar philosophy of focusing on quality and intensity first, and then if they aren't responding but recovery is in place, we try higher volumes. I go over my history in this video if you haven't watched the whole thing yet.

    • @NopeNope78
      @NopeNope78 7 місяців тому +1

      @@ericrhelms not “a fan of” high or low volume, but a friend of mine bought the berto program templates and it’s definitely low volume. I’m pretty sure we can agree that Jeff and Berto follows a “lower volume” training approach and you follow a “higher volume” training approach. Not saying this is how you program for everyone, but that is how you personally train

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +2

      @@NopeNope78 just saying it’s more relevant to focus on how we all similarly program the same way - the process, vs the outcome, which will look different for everyone based on how they respond

  • @troy3423
    @troy3423 7 місяців тому +1

    That feel when every muscle group responds to low volume except for calves.

    • @kane6529
      @kane6529 7 місяців тому

      Shoulders responding to low volume said no one ever

    • @troy3423
      @troy3423 7 місяців тому

      @@kane6529 Anabolics

  • @contadogoogle7416
    @contadogoogle7416 7 місяців тому

    If I do 2 sets of chest, with very good technique and 0-1 RiR, I get a pump and get very sore for 2-3 days. Does that mean it's probably goos to not do more or change exercise/increase RiR?
    Is soreness a indicative of a damage/fatigue that isn't good for hypertrophy?

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +1

      No not necessarily, just indicates that you overloaded, but just stick with that volume, intensity, exercise for now so long as you're seeing growth and increases in gym performance, as we discussed in the video, don't need to change something if you're progressing.

  • @DarthNoshitam
    @DarthNoshitam 6 місяців тому

    So is it fair to say that if you can recover from higher volume, you should do it?

  • @AkrabSouls
    @AkrabSouls 7 місяців тому +1

    Upper body is Eric, lower body is Jeff

    • @Anonymousdeletedaccount...
      @Anonymousdeletedaccount... Місяць тому

      jeff is overall more impressive but i genuinely think theyd look the same as they do now if they traded volume. Eric needs to eat a lot more

  • @SF-fu9xr
    @SF-fu9xr 7 місяців тому +3

    The thumbnail reminds me of Goku vs Frieza on Namek

  • @wesrobinson7506
    @wesrobinson7506 7 місяців тому

    Hey Eric when you were doing the 5x10 3 x a week of chest press, shoulder press and rows and pull downs, did you do much direct arm work or leg work?

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +1

      yes I also did arm work after the compounds, and had 2 leg days, but the leg days were 3 sets per exercise, and I only did 3 sets on one arm exercise bi/tri on my upper body days

    • @wesrobinson7506
      @wesrobinson7506 7 місяців тому +1

      @@ericrhelms thanks Dr. Helms!

  • @fabiopapalia
    @fabiopapalia 4 місяці тому

    VERY interesting content here. NOW i need to see a mud fight with those two GIANTS to establish who is the jerk here.
    Mud fight, only beach slip allowed.

  • @ck-rd2ce
    @ck-rd2ce 4 місяці тому

    Quick question for Jeff - you mention 6 sets for chest / week. How many exercises are you doing? Are you only counting top/work sets? thx

    • @Team3DMJ
      @Team3DMJ  4 місяці тому

      I’m doing a fly into press at the moment and yes, 6 sets/week (2 sessions @ 3 sets). If you go to my video titled Chest Training, the exercises is there with some context. -Jeff

    • @ck-rd2ce
      @ck-rd2ce 4 місяці тому

      @@Team3DMJ thank you for the reply, I found the video. Your rep cadence and control is honestly Textbook stuff. Would seriously behoove the majority of bbers to substantially reduce their training weights and emulate this. 🤝

  • @JoaoBatista-mo4yp
    @JoaoBatista-mo4yp 3 місяці тому

    26 sets for chest ? Definitely 3-4 RIR because that’s crazy. Some resource showed that chest is one of the most easy to fatigue

    • @Team3DMJ
      @Team3DMJ  2 місяці тому +1

      No im actually training most sets 0-2 RIR or failure, and if you look at time course of recovery in the research there’s no indication of the pecs being particularly more fatigue sensitive. More importantly you just track your own data, to see if you’re able to progress in the weight room (indicating you’ve recovered, and I’m making progress)

  • @donluchitti
    @donluchitti 7 місяців тому

    What do these guys and a lot of other leading Body building/ fitness communicators mean when they refer to Hiit being bunk (now). I understand hiit has been debunked but curious exactly in which ways?

    • @mattheweley
      @mattheweley 7 місяців тому +2

      Confusing, but they’re taking about resistance programs, not cardio philosophies. They’re saying HIT, not HIIT (High Intensity Training not High Intensity Interval Training). Think Mentzer Heavy Duty- resistance training with very high intensity and very low frequency

    • @donluchitti
      @donluchitti 7 місяців тому

      @@mattheweley thanks!!!

  • @joshuaclewes1883
    @joshuaclewes1883 7 місяців тому +1

    I read a post title saying hard gainers who started off skinny with more of an ectomorph bone structure need high volume to keep making progress.

  • @NopeNope78
    @NopeNope78 7 місяців тому

    Curious about how long does your workouts last Eric with this kind of weekly volume? If you do that amount in 4 days per week training, it’s probably 2 hours + workouts…

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +4

      Give my other episodes in my series a watch I go through my entire workout split :-) but because I use antagonist paired sets, rest pause and drop sets, my workouts take 60-90 mins

    • @NopeNope78
      @NopeNope78 7 місяців тому +3

      @@ericrhelms will go watch them for sure!

    • @ericrhelms
      @ericrhelms 7 місяців тому +1

      @@NopeNope78 enjoy!

  • @jayschiavello6876
    @jayschiavello6876 7 місяців тому +1

    Like it!

  • @Leonidas-eu9bb
    @Leonidas-eu9bb 3 місяці тому

    Measuring volume is the probleme.For example there are plenty of people that do zero weight training but they have indeed the same muscle mass in their calfs for example. Why is that? Volume+genetics.. But there are also those races with big butts. Afro-Americans generally have those genetics for big butts. They just have it. I need so much intensity and volume to grow a butt like them. But I don't need to do anything for my calfs.

  • @leonardosilva5501
    @leonardosilva5501 7 місяців тому

    Let’s go!

  • @Solidfreeman01
    @Solidfreeman01 7 місяців тому

    This looks like a competition in typical hacker-nerd-like back posture! 😀

  • @cole_p_warren
    @cole_p_warren 7 місяців тому +1

    27:03 I'd really enjoy a video on SFR myth busting and some info on recent data. I've become increasingly skeptical that proximity to failure (or beyond) makes as much of an impact on SFR as people say. I've also noticed that higher rep ranges are so much better on my joints, that even though it's harder to push close to failure I can do a lot more volume. I'd also say a 2 RIR in a 10-20 rep range feels more stimulating than a 10-12 rep range due to the smaller increments of fatigue per rep you have to stack on to eventuially get to failure, if that makes any sense.

  • @marianarzoiu8958
    @marianarzoiu8958 7 місяців тому

    i do his volume in a month . holy sh*t

  • @samueldahl9790
    @samueldahl9790 7 місяців тому +1

    I think I might be an Eric😢

  • @quangsumi
    @quangsumi 7 місяців тому +5

    Did Jeff train 6-9 sets/week like that all his life or just a couple of years back? I am doubt that he did not push everything he had when he was younger and only resulted to low volume recently just enough to maintain his physic. No way on earth you can build a competitive body for just 6-9 sets/week, period

    • @jeffalberts7968
      @jeffalberts7968 7 місяців тому +12

      ‘92-‘10 I trained with a modified version of HIT that suited my needs, so my set volume per body part actually avg about 3-6/week and my frequency was lower at 1x/week. People are different, like you, I was really skeptical myself, but over the years the skepticism turned into more open mindedness that when training others there are going to be variance how they respond to a plethora of programming.

    • @quangsumi
      @quangsumi 7 місяців тому +4

      @@jeffalberts7968 thank you for replying. Despite still disbelieving (maybe because of my coping mechanism), I am open-minded to this new knowledge and will give it a try myself in the future. Very impressive

    • @jeffalberts7968
      @jeffalberts7968 7 місяців тому +9

      ⁠@@quangsumiyou’re welcome and thank you for your transparency. I love that you’re willing to explore and open up to new ideas. Personally, what has held me back the most over the years was getting sucked into one camp’s vacuum. Bbing or life, I only see tools and my goal is to fill my toolbox, so I have what I need to get a job done as effectively and efficiently as possible.

    • @krystofodehnal9448
      @krystofodehnal9448 5 місяців тому +2

      pErIoD. Maybe stop watching too much science based bs, try training hard for once and you will find out you do not need to do 52 sets for rear delts every week.

    • @quangsumi
      @quangsumi 5 місяців тому

      @@krystofodehnal9448 no science said 52 sets per week per muscle. Keep learning snowflake

  • @engr.tonystark3504
    @engr.tonystark3504 7 місяців тому +7

    I literally do just 4-6 sets per week per muscle group and my gains are way faster than the stupid “optimal 10-20 sets per muscle per week” bullshit.
    My split is:
    Monday - Back & Shoulders
    Tuesday - Rest
    Wednesday - Legs & Abs
    Thursday - Rest
    Friday - Chest & Arms
    Saturday and Sunday - Rest
    2 exercises each muscle group for only 2 sets each! Amazing progress than doing 10-20 sets.
    INTENSITY > Volume!!

    • @JimmyStruthers-lb3sn
      @JimmyStruthers-lb3sn 7 місяців тому +1

      Yep. Tons of people built incredible physiques with low volume before the internet got silly with this science based bodybuilding crap. I feel bad for anyone who fell for this trend, it’s just a shtick certain people are using to make money ( cough cough Mike Israetel)

    • @Manuel080293
      @Manuel080293 7 місяців тому

      good for you man. just think of the time saved with that approach! are your measurements going up ? a lot of people would just maintain their gains with that volume (4 sets.)

    • @engr.tonystark3504
      @engr.tonystark3504 6 місяців тому

      @@Manuel080293 Maintain? WTF. No I am progressing almost every workout. Heck even Mike Mentzer's one set system would improve you.

  • @HumbleDictator
    @HumbleDictator 7 місяців тому

    Sandbagging haha. I WISH I could get that physique by sandbagging.

  • @dmytrotkachoyv
    @dmytrotkachoyv 7 місяців тому

    First time I've seen so much volume on erectors specifically. woa