World War II was just the perfect cinematic war ever that so many different aspects of it can make countless different movies. A movie just about the planning of D Day makes for a fascinating movie.
Operation Overlord is based its success on Airborne troops jumping into carnage , omg , those fine young volunteers to go ahead and gave their lives to save humanity gone half MAD! GOD BLESS those men that never came home...it makes me cry...
We always forget that Eisenhower had final decision on Overlord. FDR, Churchill... and even Stalin said it was HIS move. Hard today to imagine what was going through his mind . DeGaulle was a constant obstacle in fighting the Germans for Europe.
Churchill possibly summed it up best. Having dealt with most of note from the start of the war, right to the end, he wrote that the hardest thing he had to deal with in the whole war was “bearing the cross of Lorraine” (AKA De Gaulle). Ike at least was forthright enough to put De Gaulle in his place. As much as he could, given the allies saw De Gaulles “leadership” as key to preventing post war France falling to Stalinism.
You know, I really enjoyed this exchange with you. I happen to like this series, flawed as it is.. Lets people know how really, how should I say, difficult it was to send all these people into Normandy. Today, young people seem to not have a clue of what this war was like. It touched almost every country, all oceans and even Arctic regions, maybe Anarctica if U-Boat tales are true. Anyway, you know your history and I hope we banter again.
Actually, Easy Company was only a small piece that day, and many, many companies saw far heavier action than they. The 82nd saw some of the worst fighting at all on D-day for instance.
@TheLostIdea All this doesn't change the fact that he was portrayed unfairly. He was a soldier before he was a politician, and he was a very good field officer whose ideas could have prepared France better, but he wasn't part of the brass back then and thus had no say on military policy. Lets give him credit for having been a good soldier who truly wanted to serve his country, at least.
You are correct at that my friend. And it was De Gaulle who helped keep French Resistance alive during German occupation. I agree, he was not portrayed very well in this film, but, if you followed his career later as PM of France he was an arrogant and conceited individual. Never the less, I stand by my my original comment that all the statesmen of power gave Eisenhower final decision on planning and executing Overlord. He was the one commander to bring egos together to one goal.
@Haersh009 Sure. My dad's cousin was in the 82nd Airborne. I doubt anyone much knows they were there. He fought in the Battle of Merderet River, which took part around Normandy also. Hardly anything to compare with the exploits of Easy Company Airborne.
Try "World War Two" by John Keegan, one of most respected military historians whose work is always well researched, and an Englishman. Also, "Eisenhower" by Carlo D' Este with over 200 pages of references and notes to his work. D' Este has also written great books on Normandy, Battle for Sicily, WWII in the Mediterranean and Patton. Both these men exhaustively research their material and show it in their writtings and are both considered two of the best military historians of today.
Ares99999 thanks from Lima, Perú. Yes, De Gaulle's main aim was to preserve France as master of its own destiny as a nation. He had send his own plan for D-Day when it was in construction, not after, & he protected french money for he wanted to secure an stabilized french economy for war effort. This last weekend I got a spanish translation of the book "The last days of Patton" by Ladislas Farago, the author of "Patton: ordeal & triumph". If I can, I'll write some comments. Thanks again.
@musicaenlaniebla Exactly. Some characters are lionized more in this movie - Eisenhower, of course, as well as Churchill - and some characters are depicted as even worse than they were - Patton, and especially De Gaulle.
Hmmm. I read Keegan. Although he does say that De Gaulle had a tendency to make demands, its also pointed out that De Gaulle did not object to Normandy nearly as completely as in this biased story here. Moreover, several historians have pointed out that De Gaulle was seen as a 'thorn' because he wanted his country to be independant of proposed allied occupation. Seems to me that De Gaulle loved his country and was a patriot.
Eisenhower did a great job, and this movie conveys that well. Its just that every single time De Gaulle is shown, its like he's the most incompetent of them all. Which is untrue. He had actual field experience. Anti-french bias here. And because of that, many people think that the guy was like that: an incompetent buffoon. He was an arrogant, conceited guy (like many leaders, I might add), but the truth is that he did agree with the overall plan. He wasn't set against it like shown here.
People forget that Charles de Gaulle was one of the leading armoured warfare theorists in the early 1930s and that Guderian studied him (not the other way round) when writing Achtung, Panzer! A very intelligent officer but mistrusted by the French General Staff and their ignorance of his work would later haunt them in 1940.
Charles DeGaulle was a great Frenchman, who advocated always and only for France 🇫🇷. He was definitely obstructionist but he never betrayed France like 👍 other supposedly patriotic countrymen. Aidan Crawley book De Gaulle is an amazing look into the EXTREMELY complicated journey of one of modern France greatest heroes.
@TheLostIdea Cont. He riled up Churchill and Roosevelt because he was ashamed the French were beaten so easily? Everyone was caught off-guard, everyone was complacent. He was trying to get his people back on the map some way, somehow. And there's nothing wrong with being an American patriot, or a Canadian patriot. Should we condemn him for being a French patriot? Nonsense. 85,000+ French soldiers gave their lives to defend their country in the Battle of France. They didn't just give it up.
needlenoize, thanks out of Lima Perú. I bought the DVD & in my family I see it with my dad, 82 years old, who was a teenager during WWII & saw the news by Movietone. The film is good (5/5 stars for Tom Selleck!!!), but I think it is some unjust with Patton & moreover with De Gaulle. Have you seen french film "Le Grand Charles"? It shows De Gaulle's efforts to avoid that France were seen by the Allies as a passive witness without dignity & capacity of decision. Thanks again
Never take a history test after watching one of these UnHolyWood Productions. That being said, don't expect generations less than 50 years old in America today to have a clue about WW2 if they attended our failing public school system. BY DESIGN.
How would you get a High school history test wrong after watching this? It covers all the basics: Eisenhower, who the Allies and Axis countries are, the date of D-Day, what country Normandy beach is located in. You don't need to know the specific details beyond that of D-Day in a Civil War to 21st Century American History class.
Ike said it "Those soldiers will have to bear the rough portion". He was talking about Easy Company. They did it, and more. Dick Winters was the main man on D-Day.
@@robertgabuna355 Watch the Band of Brothers mini series, Dick Winters is one of the main characters in the movie. It's based on a true story of Easy Company in the Airborne from them parachuting into Normandy right up until the end of the war in Europe.
This is why writing can be inconvenient, it doesn't relay the sentiment I mean to express at times. What I mean is that many people on this forum take this movie as the historical truth of these guys, and De Gaulle happens to be especially mistreated here. And yeah, the French got caught with their pants down. But then again, so did most of Europe. Fact is, people so wanted for there not to be a war, that they deliberately did not prepare and ignored all the signs. Good series, though.
France leaders basically did everything to lead their country to defeat. De Gaulle and a few others could have led them to a stalemate at best during ww2. They had good gear, just defeatist morale sapping leadership .
How do you know? He was one of the first non-german generals to advocate a greater ratio of armor, actually managed to momentarily stall the Germans at Montcornet, and did his best to coordinate military efforts with great Britain. Maybe he wasn't a Montgomery or a Bradley, but he didn't have their ressources, either. Don't judge the man based on this entertaining BUT biased story here.
OK. I won't debate you any more on this as you are steadfast on your opinion. Anyway, I never said he was a "bufoon, nor incompetent". Without him we probably never would have gained the beaches at Normandy, much less won overall in Europe. He was the first to refute the Vichi government who made peace with the Germans and vowed to fight until France was free. You do have to admit, the French totally underestimated the German force and where they would strike in 1940.
@louiev2000 Oh, have you read extensively on this man - from many text sources, INCLUDING french ones, to make that decision? Or are you taking what this MOVIE is saying like its gospel truth?
The term "jet" to refer to a high-speed flow of fluid goes way back, even referring to the "jet" of water from fountains. A "jet stream" of air didn't refer to jet aircraft.
Clearly I have this all wrong all these years, I always thought that Montgomery commanded all ground forces on D-day and during Overlord, when in fact he was just a cantankerous bit part player.
@25052647 I already have thanks, 3 infact. The following definition come from the Oxford English Dictionary, Concise Edition: irony ̸ʌırǝni̸ n. (pl. -ies) the expression of meaning through the use of language signifying the opposite, typically for humorous effect. a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects. (also dramatic or tragic irony) a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the significance of character’s words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character: − ORIGIN C16: via L. from Gk. eirōnia ‘simulated ignorance’, from eirōn ‘dissembler’. You will see see where I got the the expression 'simulated ignorance' from.
@TheLostIdea cont. As for the 'we' part, I hope you didn't imply my family didn't fight. Members of my family fought in both WWI and WWII. Just so we're clear. And as a last point, De Gaulle was a good military officer. Its historically proven. He was a difficult man, but he was competent. He supported the Battle of Normandy. He historically found it very sound. He historically didn't give Eisenhower a bad time over it. De Gaulle was mistreated in this miniseries. Its a fact. Lets move on.
Ares99999 You must read a lot of a French history books. Why do you think Ike wouldn’t support him in Vietnam with air support, he didn’t trust him and 80% of his military greatness was great PR.
@sweetasflip De Gaulle did not historically react that way. He actually generally agreed with Eisenhower on many points. You say he should be more agreeable and comment less. He historically WAS more agreeable, though I'm sure he commented a lot. You have to remember that this was done in 2003, when the 'We Hate the French' tendencies were at its worst point. I'm saying De Gaulle was arrogant and had many faults, but he wasn't the fool they're showing here.
de gaulle acts like hes on top of the world and he still has a golden goose on his sleeve, just look how he reacts to ikes decisions and everyone knows that his countrymen (vichi) are working for the germans already, he should be more agreeable and comment less
Ed Stevens I was giving DeGaulle the benefit of the doubt that he must have been a good leader to keep the resistance going. Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower must have had great patience to put up with him.
LBF522 That's the POINT. They DIDN'T put up with him. Churchill was probably the one who understood things the best, pointing out that De Gaulle had to be the way he was to show to the French people, especially the 150,000 men of the Free French Forces, that he wasn't a puppet. Roosevelt didn't want to acknowledge De Gaulle for months, and even when he did, often either ignored him or tried to set up someone else to take his place. There was mutual distrust and dislike as both men had very different goals for the French (Roosevelt wanted France occupied by the Allied Powers). As for Eisenhower, patience or not, he kept his thoughts to himself and pretty much tried hard to be apolitical.
"Too many movies confused this one into AE`s After the Effect failed. It is so easy to all these comments, when you weren`t there on any given day! Yes thousands of our guy`s died within a few day`s, but all this after the facts is stupid! ``
@goombabear yeah so... I watched it and thought this was good. and when do you see that us Brits didn't think America was involved in the war? Americans joined in the West in 1942 and overtook British & Canadians by numbers AFTER Normandy had been won.. Remember D-Day was 60% British and Canadian affair the commanders of the air (Leigh Mallory), ground (Montogmery), sea forces (Ramsey) and even the deputy supreme was British. (Tedder)
There's a better way! "We the people...!"/"We..." the problem! "we" humans, got lazy, and let government do our "duty" for us! Please help us fix this! By Christmas! There's one extra way! Please consider! Young folks must employ this, too! "We" needs you! (A vet asking you millions of other Vets, to provide our backbone!)! Here; in a 21st century context! [Note: paraphrasing!]! For comprehensive contingencies managing! "Civil defense is emergency [contingencies] management!" (EMI / FEMA)! Thus; cyclical phases of: mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery (EMI / FEMA)! Through an IEMS / Integrated [contingencies] Management System, which includes all sectors: private, public, and government (EMI / FEMA)! FEMA recommends we maintain secondary EOCs (Emergency / [contingencies] Operations Centers)! "We" can use that ! To build our own, for "We", as the "4th Branch!" And; "We" don't need anyone's permission! Over the decades, our governments have claimed everything "civil defense" as under "Civil Defense"; thus, under government's authority and controls! And, "they" are not likely to let go of such absolute power!... Thus; now it's called, "DHS / Dept. of Homeland Security, which is in authority over FEMA!" [Note: your local DES Director can launch an FBI investigation on anyone, as spite, alone! Thus; Nazi capabilities and tactics!]! Folks, "civil defense" is "civilian", thus, any human cashing a government paycheck, may be "civil government", but that $$$ represents a serious conflict of interest, especially for any person appointed as DES Director, by the newly elected "party!" [Note, instances: A good FEMA Director, James Witt, ousted! Or; "Project Impact", w/ the goal, "to build disaster resistant communities!", was ended by GW Bush! (Yes! It needed improvement; but, it focused on getting you and me actively involved in our community's "civil defense" system!]! Thus; how to get back in, to take it back, and make it a good, civilian, perpetual, social system! [Thus; a suggested name must equal it's goal, mission, and objective s! One that connects all sectors, again... Clean and democratic! I highly recommend, the name: DES Support Systems! More later.]. (Imagine having your own NASA type control center capabilities; with, hands-on learning potential, within academics! Imagine clicking an icon, that takes you to your own contingencies management site, for any issues: maps, charts, graphs, reports, studies, data, surveys, polls, etc! A place to plug in your views!)! Start with, we millions of Vets, for a quick backbone! We are civilians, who know stuff, like tactics, strategies, a professional system! (And; I might add, there's a reason most of us departed after our first tour = hate for anything smelling like tyranny... bullies holding power ! Vet are only a quick place to start, where all can get involved, as part of a system with nominated / specially selected leadership, from among our best! Folk won't follow anyone less, in this!). What I'm proposing is the contingencies management system FEMA recommends, from their many studies. It's our back way, back into "their" system; while, such actually belongs to "We", since "we" ain't welcome, through the front! "We" got lazy, and let "them" take over our responsibilities! "We" can take it back, very quickly... Basically, over night, from our homes! Make a logistics / liaison NGO! With a matrix organizational structure! To provide us with an easy projects management capability, where we can all pick our areas of interest, and can contribute our voices! Where ""We" can map our governments, pick them apart, streamline them, clean out the excess, and the filth, for an efficient respectable republic! From within a "Project" (eg, voting), "we" can then choose a "Mission" area to study, and to contribute (who, when, where, what, why, how...)! Reviving this system will restore gov. oversight for "We"! = Project - Whistles Blower - to install a buffer! = A place to speak our minds, in complete continuous safety, with folks we chose to be available trusted options, to represent them, as middle buffers, who work to resolve issues. Not appointed by gov, like what gov usually sends "to help!" Do you know, the spy saying, something like "safety in enemies midst!" This is our way to send in trustworthy folks, to "infiltrate" "their" systems, to end corruption! Thus; the legally accepted way! Point blank, and deliberately, in "their" faces! Now! By you and me! Over night! Again; "their" system belongs to all of you! However, "We" must preserve a system of "Professional First Responders", too! Thus, "We" needs both! Thus; those under paycheck type restrictions, with the rest of us helping out, as we should be, anyway! "DES" ... Support Systems "Disaster & Emergency Services" (= gov / "Professional Responders"). While;... ... We can be the "Support Systems" (thus; access, again!)! However, it's for humans, which means, inclusion! Thus; all !!! (I recommend a movie, to help with understanding. While the movie excludes "politicians", our's can not! "We" must stomp ego out of it ... = no titles, labels, etc. When the movie ends, I invite you to help to create a contemporary version of that portrayed system! I suppose, in a great way, "We" can take up where they're drama left off, but I real life! "Meet John Doe", w/ Gary Cooper and Barbara Stanwick). Note this! DHS is potentially illegal, because it's built on "the Civil Defense Act of 1950." Which states nothing of the private sector! Thus; along the way, we got lazy and let gov take over our responsibilities in "civil defense!" And; bad leaders have turned it into a gestapo, against us, in the name of emergency management! Also note, the old 1964 Civil Defense manuals! Thus; "active and passive civil defense being crucial components of national security posture!" - "active" = "armed" "Minute..." - "passive" = facilities, Coms, etc. Thus; I highly recommend the Swiss example, built into our republic! Immediately! The gapping hole, the way in: FEMA is desperately trying to get folks involved in community emergency management, to help manage all disasters! They stated the creation of CEM Comprehensive Emergency Management = (Cyclically phased: preparedness, response, recovery, and mitigation) And; The IEMS = "Integrated Emergency Management System!" Which is their plea for "all sectors to be involved: public, private, and government"! (Find a dictionary: - "civil" = non military, non police, non eclesia, ...! - "civil defense"...!) However; note the 1776 concept! "Minute man, woman, kid, elder" = neighborhood incident management ! = comprehensive contingencies management Bring it into a 21st century context! Among us! To provide a simple basic way to have voice! "A well regulated [contingencies management system] being necessary to the [national security posture] of a free state, the right of the people to [employ a Swiss type system won't likely be] infringed!" [Note: I'm a Veteran '73-78, age 64, but I have not ever owned a firearm! Thus; I can't be call militia, since such is kind of a prerequisite... ! ... Or not??? I managed Armories, so l must claim, knowledge and experience, thereof! Nevertheless; stand the f... by, if "My Lady's" liberty is threatened! I'd rather do so through our accepted legal way to do so!) This is the only way, to be accepted by DES, for us to gain complete access! "Their" system actually belongs to "civil defense"! Look into the different titles it's had, since the 1940s! Read the dissertation about it, by: Boyce Wayne Blanchard. And; about his ride in FEMA, at EMI. Thus, FEMA development of grad degrees in such fields; and, requiring Bachelor degrees, for EOC Directors...! Along the way, "their" system was no longer interested in "civilians"! You'll usually find the door bolted now. The only way in is by invitation or appointment, by gov officialdom! Hell; I can't even get in any more! Haven't since after 9/11 ! Thus; f..... them! We can build our own. They need us, too! Join me! Help me! [I'm old and tech ignorant! But, I have tons of incredible info you need! I need to pass it on! I can support all I've written here, and have support letters and recommendations!] Also; most military personnel receive NCB Warfare Recon, in basic! "We" need those capabilities: to monitor, detect, contain, decontaminate, and rescue humans from it! Use us to initiate a backbone... A standard! Please note: to those who have served in FET ! "We" need you to help us set this up, here, among mother's, sisters, daughters, grandmothers, families, neighborhoods...! Help us recon this virus, as well as other diseases, and "clear areas", until "We" are safe, and beyond! Help us contend with contingencies! "Project" examples: operations, personnel, projects, admin, finance (grant writers, for goodies "We" need for nailing down truth), our web sites (for info and participation, in this "4th Branch" system), surveys, polls, voting, community profiles [utilities, transport systems (roads, rails, shipping...), liaisons, security,, sewage, power, solid waste, storm drains, logistics ,(personnel, supplies, equipment, livestock, transport, storage, e), map government (so we can itemize where, and to who, our tax dollars go .....!), Disaster & Emergency Services (Professional s) with "Support Systems" ("We") = better NCB Recon against chemical, biological, radiological warfare (corner this virus and other diseases, pollution... !...)], continental security, ... Bigfoot (trust me!), amateur Archeology (so folks can fill in what they've witnessed. I've seen lots of stuff no one knows of, for instance...)...! Anything! Everything! Standing by! Semper Fidelis! (jmheigis@gmail.com)
Many of the Founders warned U.S. Not to allow party systems. "WE" becomes a joint effort only when "I" takes on the personal responsibility. WW2 was the "I" generation, and as far as what's coming, well, Adm. Halsey put it this way. Toss out 'the book' because the people who wrote it have never faced what we are up against.
@@terryrussel3369 Hi, The system I propose will give you what you want and need... A site for restoring the "mustering" again, conveniently, in a 21st century context. I give my word! I've been in this a long long time. I found the pieces we need. It only needs louder voices, to get it administrated, and operational. It's backbone must be Vets! In this, we chose our best leaders. Only "appointed", if nominated by those who follow! A basic military structure, for nation security poster, from a "fire-team, squad, plattoon... But this is within a neutral / objective NGO, with a matrix organizational structure. Somewhat like the Red Cross, while such can not be armed! Thus, in 1963 terminalogy, "active and passive civil defense are integral to national security posture. It's looking at the 2nd Amendment, in a new light. The first part, before the comma is the most important (independent sentence), while the latter supports the former (dependent sentence)! I know! Technically! However, what exactly was a "militia" / "muster" / "gatherings of purpose!" What were they saying, before, as they gathered, during, and after, as they parted ways... It wasn't only their security apparatus, for their neighborhood incident management, but where demos-kratos stewed, among them! Thus; " A well regulated [comprehensive contingencies management systems] being necessary to the [national security posture] of a free state, the right of the people [ to employ a Swiss type system, within a republic, probably won't be ] infringed!" Now, from home... A park bench ... A site for mitigating issue in your space... Preparing, Responding, Recovering... Through an integrated, all sector s, system! Just like FEMA recommends! It's not my invention! It once existed. "We" got lazy, and let it fade, not realizing what it did for us, among us! I don't know enough, to take it the rest of the way. With the right louder voices, we will spark it into life again! (Folks like SoS Colin Powell, Gen. Kelly, Gen Mahon, Oliver Stone, Ed Snowden, Michael Moore, Dana Priest, and lists of others... To say so, about it's potential, at the same time... Folks are desperate, for anything! This is their / your / my system. We can easily revive it! I give my word! This will work, because it's filling with others like you! Lots of thumbs up, each day, for several months! With replies... Standing by... Semper Fi! Thank you, for responding!
Ike was relying on Dick Winters to make his objectives. The whole operation depended on him. Easy Company was the 101st. They were the famous airborne crack troops of WW2.
Omar Bradley is favorably presented in this movie. In reality, Bradley was in way over his head. He lacked imagination and was a tactical idiot. He got ahead because George Marshall liked him from Marshall's time at Fort Benning when Bradley was in charge of the Demonstration troop unit. For sure he was a petty, insecure, yes-man.
World War II was just the perfect cinematic war ever that so many different aspects of it can make countless different movies. A movie just about the planning of D Day makes for a fascinating movie.
Operation Overlord is based its success on Airborne troops jumping into carnage , omg , those fine young volunteers to go ahead and gave their lives to save humanity gone half MAD! GOD BLESS those men that never came home...it makes me cry...
Overlord success was based on the contribution of many people.
Isn’t that the Shakespearean style in war. We band of brothers!!!
The Kiwi actors playing the British roles in this great production really did a jolly fine job ;)
The generation that had Ike as president don’t know how good they had it.
Yes. It is a shame they are all dead now.
@@roelmartinvandervelde9407 It was the 50s I am pretty sure there was plenty of young people around then that are with us now
He was a good president. Botched Latin America and set up the military-Industrial complex though.
We always forget that Eisenhower had final decision on Overlord. FDR, Churchill... and even Stalin said it was HIS move. Hard today to imagine what was going through his mind . DeGaulle was a constant obstacle in fighting the Germans for Europe.
French chauvinism. It also makes them self-centered.
Not to mention a pain in the ass at every turn.
France would be a great Country were it not for the French.
Churchill possibly summed it up best. Having dealt with most of note from the start of the war, right to the end, he wrote that the hardest thing he had to deal with in the whole war was “bearing the cross of Lorraine” (AKA De Gaulle). Ike at least was forthright enough to put De Gaulle in his place. As much as he could, given the allies saw De Gaulles “leadership” as key to preventing post war France falling to Stalinism.
You know, I really enjoyed this exchange with you. I happen to like this series, flawed as it is.. Lets people know how really, how should I say, difficult it was to send all these people into Normandy. Today, young people seem to not have a clue of what this war was like. It touched almost every country, all oceans and even Arctic regions, maybe Anarctica if U-Boat tales are true. Anyway, you know your history and I hope we banter again.
Actually, Easy Company was only a small piece that day, and many, many companies saw far heavier action than they. The 82nd saw some of the worst fighting at all on D-day for instance.
@TheLostIdea All this doesn't change the fact that he was portrayed unfairly. He was a soldier before he was a politician, and he was a very good field officer whose ideas could have prepared France better, but he wasn't part of the brass back then and thus had no say on military policy. Lets give him credit for having been a good soldier who truly wanted to serve his country, at least.
You are correct at that my friend. And it was De Gaulle who helped keep French Resistance alive during German occupation. I agree, he was not portrayed very well in this film, but, if you followed his career later as PM of France he was an arrogant and conceited individual. Never the less, I stand by my my original comment that all the statesmen of power gave Eisenhower final decision on planning and executing Overlord. He was the one commander to bring egos together to one goal.
@Haersh009 Sure. My dad's cousin was in the 82nd Airborne. I doubt anyone much knows they were there. He fought in the Battle of Merderet River, which took part around Normandy also. Hardly anything to compare with the exploits of Easy Company Airborne.
Charles de Gualle's nickname, duex meters (2 meters), wasn't based on some overestimation. He was 6' 6".
Try "World War Two" by John Keegan, one of most respected military historians whose work is always well researched, and an Englishman. Also, "Eisenhower" by Carlo D' Este with over 200 pages of references and notes to his work. D' Este has also written great books on Normandy, Battle for Sicily, WWII in the Mediterranean and Patton. Both these men exhaustively research their material and show it in their writtings and are both considered two of the best military historians of today.
From America, born Lancashire. Much respect to the allies.
Ares99999 thanks from Lima, Perú. Yes, De Gaulle's main aim was to preserve France as master of its own destiny as a nation. He had send his own plan for D-Day when it was in construction, not after, & he protected french money for he wanted to secure an stabilized french economy for war effort.
This last weekend I got a spanish translation of the book "The last days of Patton" by Ladislas Farago, the author of "Patton: ordeal & triumph". If I can, I'll write some comments. Thanks again.
Lee Malory stole the glory from the true hero of the war, and here he appears again with more bad advice.
@musicaenlaniebla Exactly. Some characters are lionized more in this movie - Eisenhower, of course, as well as Churchill - and some characters are depicted as even worse than they were - Patton, and especially De Gaulle.
Fun fact: in RL both Bradley and De Gaulle were taller than Eisenhower.
Hmmm. I read Keegan. Although he does say that De Gaulle had a tendency to make demands, its also pointed out that De Gaulle did not object to Normandy nearly as completely as in this biased story here. Moreover, several historians have pointed out that De Gaulle was seen as a 'thorn' because he wanted his country to be independant of proposed allied occupation. Seems to me that De Gaulle loved his country and was a patriot.
Eisenhower did a great job, and this movie conveys that well. Its just that every single time De Gaulle is shown, its like he's the most incompetent of them all. Which is untrue. He had actual field experience. Anti-french bias here.
And because of that, many people think that the guy was like that: an incompetent buffoon. He was an arrogant, conceited guy (like many leaders, I might add), but the truth is that he did agree with the overall plan. He wasn't set against it like shown here.
People forget that Charles de Gaulle was one of the leading armoured warfare theorists in the early 1930s and that Guderian studied him (not the other way round) when writing Achtung, Panzer! A very intelligent officer but mistrusted by the French General Staff and their ignorance of his work would later haunt them in 1940.
@@marks_sparks1 Well everyone can’t be wrong about him.
Charles DeGaulle was a great Frenchman, who advocated always and only for France 🇫🇷.
He was definitely obstructionist but he never betrayed France like 👍 other supposedly patriotic countrymen.
Aidan Crawley book De Gaulle is an amazing look into the EXTREMELY complicated journey of one of modern France greatest heroes.
You cannot help but to see the Lord's work here.
GOD keep watch His flock
@TheLostIdea Cont. He riled up Churchill and Roosevelt because he was ashamed the French were beaten so easily? Everyone was caught off-guard, everyone was complacent. He was trying to get his people back on the map some way, somehow. And there's nothing wrong with being an American patriot, or a Canadian patriot. Should we condemn him for being a French patriot? Nonsense.
85,000+ French soldiers gave their lives to defend their country in the Battle of France. They didn't just give it up.
needlenoize, thanks out of Lima Perú. I bought the DVD & in my family I see it with my dad, 82 years old, who was a teenager during WWII & saw the news by Movietone.
The film is good (5/5 stars for Tom Selleck!!!), but I think it is some unjust with Patton & moreover with De Gaulle.
Have you seen french film "Le Grand Charles"? It shows De Gaulle's efforts to avoid that France were seen by the Allies as a passive witness without dignity & capacity of decision. Thanks again
But did Shakespeare mention anything about the weather in St Crispian day or did his few, his happy few, his BAND OF BROTHERS!
Never take a history test after watching one of these UnHolyWood Productions. That being said, don't expect generations less
than 50 years old in America today to have a clue about WW2 if they attended our failing public school system. BY DESIGN.
How would you get a High school history test wrong after watching this? It covers all the basics: Eisenhower, who the Allies and Axis countries are, the date of D-Day, what country Normandy beach is located in. You don't need to know the specific details beyond that of D-Day in a Civil War to 21st Century American History class.
Ike said it "Those soldiers will have to bear the rough portion". He was talking about Easy Company. They did it, and more. Dick Winters was the main man on D-Day.
Well all of the Airborne, also talking about Private James Ryan.
Am not familiar of Dick Winter's exploits.
What was he? Who is he?
@@robertgabuna355 Watch the Band of Brothers mini series, Dick Winters is one of the main characters in the movie. It's based on a true story of Easy Company in the Airborne from them parachuting into Normandy right up until the end of the war in Europe.
What nonsense . Winters fought bravely on D-day, yes, main man? No, they were all main men
This is why writing can be inconvenient, it doesn't relay the sentiment I mean to express at times. What I mean is that many people on this forum take this movie as the historical truth of these guys, and De Gaulle happens to be especially mistreated here. And yeah, the French got caught with their pants down. But then again, so did most of Europe. Fact is, people so wanted for there not to be a war, that they deliberately did not prepare and ignored all the signs.
Good series, though.
France leaders basically did everything to lead their country to defeat.
De Gaulle and a few others could have led them to a stalemate at best during ww2. They had good gear, just defeatist morale sapping leadership .
How do you know? He was one of the first non-german generals to advocate a greater ratio of armor, actually managed to momentarily stall the Germans at Montcornet, and did his best to coordinate military efforts with great Britain. Maybe he wasn't a Montgomery or a Bradley, but he didn't have their ressources, either. Don't judge the man based on this entertaining BUT biased story here.
No one who is serious about military history thinks De Gaulle is as this show portrays.
Dam, why could they have listened to Magnum P.I.?
OK. I won't debate you any more on this as you are steadfast on your opinion. Anyway, I never said he was a "bufoon, nor incompetent". Without him we probably never would have gained the beaches at Normandy, much less won overall in Europe. He was the first to refute the Vichi government who made peace with the Germans and vowed to fight until France was free. You do have to admit, the French totally underestimated the German force and where they would strike in 1940.
I just wish they’d take the time to show actors playing generals how to salute. lol
@louiev2000 Oh, have you read extensively on this man - from many text sources, INCLUDING french ones, to make that decision? Or are you taking what this MOVIE is saying like its gospel truth?
Was it called the "Jet Stream" in 1944?
The term "jet" to refer to a high-speed flow of fluid goes way back, even referring to the "jet" of water from fountains. A "jet stream" of air didn't refer to jet aircraft.
I'm sure they didn't know about the jet stream on D Day. No one had flown that high.
ciroalb3 the Japanese knew about jet streams and even had it sort of mapped that is how they used balloons with bombs to hit mainland USA.
Absolutely correct.
@ciroalb3 Jet stream was discovered around that time in the Pacific with the B-29.
yeah, but did they CALL it that?
Clearly I have this all wrong all these years, I always thought that Montgomery commanded all ground forces on D-day and during Overlord, when in fact he was just a cantankerous bit part player.
@25052647 It is a movie the purports to present fact, but clearly mis-represents.
@25052647 Do you not understand irony?
@25052647 What you describe is tragedy. Irony is simulated ignorance.
@25052647 I already have thanks, 3 infact. The following definition come from the Oxford English Dictionary, Concise Edition:
irony ̸ʌırǝni̸ n. (pl. -ies) the expression of meaning through the use of language signifying the opposite, typically for humorous effect. a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects. (also dramatic or tragic irony) a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the significance of character’s words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character:
− ORIGIN C16: via L. from Gk. eirōnia ‘simulated ignorance’, from eirōn ‘dissembler’.
You will see see where I got the the expression 'simulated ignorance' from.
Didn't you know? Monty only wheeled in the coffee and cake at the celebration party on June 7th.
Teddy rooseveldt jnr brig general
56 years old led his troops at Utah
Beach
That's leading from the front
TR jr: Gentlemen we start the war from here.
@TheLostIdea cont. As for the 'we' part, I hope you didn't imply my family didn't fight. Members of my family fought in both WWI and WWII. Just so we're clear.
And as a last point, De Gaulle was a good military officer. Its historically proven. He was a difficult man, but he was competent. He supported the Battle of Normandy. He historically found it very sound. He historically didn't give Eisenhower a bad time over it.
De Gaulle was mistreated in this miniseries. Its a fact. Lets move on.
Ares99999 You must read a lot of a French history books. Why do you think Ike wouldn’t support him in Vietnam with air support, he didn’t trust him and 80% of his military greatness was great PR.
@sweetasflip De Gaulle did not historically react that way. He actually generally agreed with Eisenhower on many points. You say he should be more agreeable and comment less. He historically WAS more agreeable, though I'm sure he commented a lot.
You have to remember that this was done in 2003, when the 'We Hate the French' tendencies were at its worst point. I'm saying De Gaulle was arrogant and had many faults, but he wasn't the fool they're showing here.
116th Pz Div was no where near Normandy on D-Day
Will Rogers never met Charles DeGaulle.
Where? How? You have historical documentation and unbiased proof, or is this just a personal opinion? If you have proof, show me.
de gaulle, now thats one helluva pompous buffoon....
The French military in general during World War II was incompetent. They were still communicating between tanks with flags.
An unpleasant man De gaulle
de gaulle acts like hes on top of the world and he still has a golden goose on his sleeve, just look how he reacts to ikes decisions and everyone knows that his countrymen (vichi) are working for the germans already, he should be more agreeable and comment less
The Gaulle of that man…
his problem was that he had the arrogance of a brilliant general(like monty and Patton) but did not have the talent of a great general
DeGaulle was an ass but he was a great leader for the resistance.
Half credit, your first 4 words are correct.
Ed Stevens That's just pointless trolling.
Ed Stevens I was giving DeGaulle the benefit of the doubt that he must have been a good leader to keep the resistance going. Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower must have had great patience to put up with him.
LBF522 That's the POINT. They DIDN'T put up with him. Churchill was probably the one who understood things the best, pointing out that De Gaulle had to be the way he was to show to the French people, especially the 150,000 men of the Free French Forces, that he wasn't a puppet.
Roosevelt didn't want to acknowledge De Gaulle for months, and even when he did, often either ignored him or tried to set up someone else to take his place. There was mutual distrust and dislike as both men had very different goals for the French (Roosevelt wanted France occupied by the Allied Powers).
As for Eisenhower, patience or not, he kept his thoughts to himself and pretty much tried hard to be apolitical.
Thanks for the response. Its nice to hear other's points of view and what history says.
@Ares99999 wel thnx for explaining that to me...
Selleck is 6 inches taller that Ike
"Too many movies confused this one into AE`s After the Effect failed. It is so easy to all these comments, when you weren`t there on any given day! Yes thousands of our guy`s died within a few day`s, but all this after the facts is stupid! ``
@goombabear yeah so...
I watched it and thought this was good. and when do you see that us Brits didn't think America was involved in the war? Americans joined in the West in 1942 and overtook British & Canadians by numbers AFTER Normandy had been won..
Remember D-Day was 60% British and Canadian affair
the commanders of the air (Leigh Mallory), ground (Montogmery), sea forces (Ramsey) and even the deputy supreme was British. (Tedder)
Perhaps but Omaha and Utah beach where more heavily defended than the other beaches.
Montgomerys arrogance again.
What arrogance?
There's a better way!
"We the people...!"/"We..." the problem!
"we" humans, got lazy, and let government do our "duty" for us!
Please help us fix this! By Christmas!
There's one extra way! Please consider!
Young folks must employ this, too! "We" needs you!
(A vet asking you millions of other Vets, to provide our backbone!)!
Here; in a 21st century context! [Note: paraphrasing!]!
For comprehensive contingencies managing!
"Civil defense is emergency [contingencies] management!" (EMI / FEMA)!
Thus; cyclical phases of: mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery (EMI / FEMA)!
Through an IEMS / Integrated [contingencies] Management System, which includes all sectors: private, public, and government (EMI / FEMA)!
FEMA recommends we maintain secondary EOCs (Emergency / [contingencies] Operations Centers)!
"We" can use that ! To build our own, for "We", as the "4th Branch!" And; "We" don't need anyone's permission!
Over the decades, our governments have claimed everything "civil defense" as under "Civil Defense"; thus, under government's authority and controls! And, "they" are not likely to let go of such absolute power!... Thus; now it's called, "DHS / Dept. of Homeland Security, which is in authority over FEMA!" [Note: your local DES Director can launch an FBI investigation on anyone, as spite, alone! Thus; Nazi capabilities and tactics!]!
Folks, "civil defense" is "civilian", thus, any human cashing a government paycheck, may be "civil government", but that $$$ represents a serious conflict of interest, especially for any person appointed as DES Director, by the newly elected "party!" [Note, instances: A good FEMA Director, James Witt, ousted! Or; "Project Impact", w/ the goal, "to build disaster resistant communities!", was ended by GW Bush! (Yes! It needed improvement; but, it focused on getting you and me actively involved in our community's "civil defense" system!]!
Thus; how to get back in, to take it back, and make it a good, civilian, perpetual, social system!
[Thus; a suggested name must equal it's goal, mission, and objective s! One that connects all sectors, again... Clean and democratic!
I highly recommend, the name: DES Support Systems! More later.].
(Imagine having your own NASA type control center capabilities; with, hands-on learning potential, within academics! Imagine clicking an icon, that takes you to your own contingencies management site, for any issues: maps, charts, graphs, reports, studies, data, surveys, polls, etc! A place to plug in your views!)!
Start with, we millions of Vets, for a quick backbone! We are civilians, who know stuff, like tactics, strategies, a professional system!
(And; I might add, there's a reason most of us departed after our first tour = hate for anything smelling like tyranny... bullies holding power ! Vet are only a quick place to start, where all can get involved, as part of a system with nominated / specially selected leadership, from among our best! Folk won't follow anyone less, in this!).
What I'm proposing is the contingencies management system FEMA recommends, from their many studies.
It's our back way, back into "their" system; while, such actually belongs to "We", since "we" ain't welcome, through the front! "We" got lazy, and let "them" take over our responsibilities!
"We" can take it back, very quickly... Basically, over night, from our homes!
Make a logistics / liaison NGO! With a matrix organizational structure!
To provide us with an easy projects management capability, where we can all pick our areas of interest, and can contribute our voices!
Where ""We" can map our governments, pick them apart, streamline them, clean out the excess, and the filth, for an efficient respectable republic!
From within a "Project" (eg, voting), "we" can then choose a "Mission" area to study, and to contribute (who, when, where, what, why, how...)!
Reviving this system will restore gov. oversight for "We"!
= Project - Whistles Blower
- to install a buffer!
= A place to speak our minds, in complete continuous safety, with folks we chose to be available trusted options, to represent them, as middle buffers, who work to resolve issues. Not appointed by gov, like what gov usually sends "to help!"
Do you know, the spy saying, something like "safety in enemies midst!"
This is our way to send in trustworthy folks, to "infiltrate" "their" systems, to end corruption!
Thus; the legally accepted way! Point blank, and deliberately, in "their" faces! Now! By you and me! Over night!
Again; "their" system belongs to all of you!
However, "We" must preserve a system of "Professional First Responders", too! Thus, "We" needs both!
Thus; those under paycheck type restrictions, with the rest of us helping out, as we should be, anyway!
"DES" ... Support Systems
"Disaster & Emergency Services" (= gov / "Professional Responders").
While;...
... We can be the "Support Systems" (thus; access, again!)!
However, it's for humans, which means, inclusion! Thus; all !!!
(I recommend a movie, to help with understanding. While the movie excludes "politicians", our's can not! "We" must stomp ego out of it ... = no titles, labels, etc.
When the movie ends, I invite you to help to create a contemporary version of that portrayed system!
I suppose, in a great way, "We" can take up where they're drama left off, but I real life!
"Meet John Doe", w/ Gary Cooper and Barbara Stanwick).
Note this!
DHS is potentially illegal, because it's built on "the Civil Defense Act of 1950." Which states nothing of the private sector! Thus; along the way, we got lazy and let gov take over our responsibilities in "civil defense!"
And; bad leaders have turned it into a gestapo, against us, in the name of emergency management!
Also note, the old 1964 Civil Defense manuals!
Thus; "active and passive civil defense being crucial components of national security posture!"
- "active" = "armed" "Minute..."
- "passive" = facilities, Coms, etc.
Thus; I highly recommend the Swiss example, built into our republic! Immediately!
The gapping hole, the way in: FEMA is desperately trying to get folks involved in community emergency management, to help manage all disasters!
They stated the creation of CEM Comprehensive Emergency Management
= (Cyclically phased: preparedness, response, recovery, and mitigation)
And;
The IEMS = "Integrated Emergency Management System!"
Which is their plea for "all sectors to be involved: public, private, and government"!
(Find a dictionary:
- "civil" = non military, non police, non eclesia, ...!
- "civil defense"...!)
However; note the 1776 concept!
"Minute man, woman, kid, elder"
= neighborhood incident management !
= comprehensive contingencies management
Bring it into a 21st century context!
Among us!
To provide a simple basic way to have voice!
"A well regulated [contingencies management system] being necessary to the [national security posture] of a free state, the right of the people to [employ a Swiss type system won't likely be] infringed!"
[Note: I'm a Veteran '73-78, age 64, but I have not ever owned a firearm! Thus; I can't be call militia, since such is kind of a prerequisite... ! ... Or not???
I managed Armories, so l must claim, knowledge and experience, thereof! Nevertheless; stand the f... by, if "My Lady's" liberty is threatened!
I'd rather do so through our accepted legal way to do so!)
This is the only way, to be accepted by DES, for us to gain complete access!
"Their" system actually belongs to "civil defense"!
Look into the different titles it's had, since the 1940s!
Read the dissertation about it, by: Boyce Wayne Blanchard. And; about his ride in FEMA, at EMI.
Thus, FEMA development of grad degrees in such fields; and, requiring Bachelor degrees, for EOC Directors...!
Along the way, "their" system was no longer interested in "civilians"! You'll usually find the door bolted now. The only way in is by invitation or appointment, by gov officialdom!
Hell; I can't even get in any more! Haven't since after 9/11 !
Thus; f..... them! We can build our own. They need us, too!
Join me! Help me!
[I'm old and tech ignorant! But, I have tons of incredible info you need!
I need to pass it on!
I can support all I've written here, and have support letters and recommendations!]
Also; most military personnel receive NCB Warfare Recon, in basic!
"We" need those capabilities:
to monitor, detect, contain, decontaminate, and rescue humans from it!
Use us to initiate a backbone... A standard!
Please note: to those who have served in FET ! "We" need you to help us set this up, here, among mother's, sisters, daughters, grandmothers, families, neighborhoods...!
Help us recon this virus, as well as other diseases, and "clear areas", until "We" are safe, and beyond! Help us contend with contingencies!
"Project" examples: operations, personnel, projects, admin, finance (grant writers, for goodies "We" need for nailing down truth), our web sites (for info and participation, in this "4th Branch" system), surveys, polls, voting, community profiles [utilities, transport systems (roads, rails, shipping...), liaisons, security,, sewage, power, solid waste, storm drains, logistics ,(personnel, supplies, equipment, livestock, transport, storage, e), map government (so we can itemize where, and to who, our tax dollars go .....!), Disaster & Emergency Services (Professional s) with "Support Systems" ("We") = better NCB Recon against chemical, biological, radiological warfare (corner this virus and other diseases, pollution... !...)], continental security, ... Bigfoot (trust me!), amateur Archeology (so folks can fill in what they've witnessed. I've seen lots of stuff no one knows of, for instance...)...! Anything! Everything!
Standing by!
Semper Fidelis!
(jmheigis@gmail.com)
Many of the Founders warned U.S. Not to allow party systems.
"WE" becomes a joint effort only when "I" takes on the personal responsibility. WW2 was the "I" generation, and as far as what's coming, well, Adm. Halsey put it this way.
Toss out 'the book' because the people who wrote it have never faced what we are up against.
@@terryrussel3369 Hi,
The system I propose will give you what you want and need... A site for restoring the "mustering" again, conveniently, in a 21st century context. I give my word!
I've been in this a long long time.
I found the pieces we need.
It only needs louder voices, to get it administrated, and operational.
It's backbone must be Vets!
In this, we chose our best leaders.
Only "appointed", if nominated by those who follow!
A basic military structure, for nation security poster, from a "fire-team, squad, plattoon...
But this is within a neutral / objective NGO, with a matrix organizational structure.
Somewhat like the Red Cross, while such can not be armed!
Thus, in 1963 terminalogy, "active and passive civil defense are integral to national security posture.
It's looking at the 2nd Amendment, in a new light.
The first part, before the comma is the most important (independent sentence), while the latter supports the former (dependent sentence)!
I know! Technically!
However, what exactly was a "militia" / "muster" / "gatherings of purpose!" What were they saying, before, as they gathered, during, and after, as they parted ways...
It wasn't only their security apparatus, for their neighborhood incident management, but where demos-kratos stewed, among them!
Thus;
" A well regulated [comprehensive contingencies management systems] being necessary to the [national security posture] of a free state, the right of the people [ to employ a Swiss type system, within a republic, probably won't be ] infringed!"
Now, from home... A park bench ...
A site for mitigating issue in your space... Preparing, Responding, Recovering... Through an integrated, all sector s, system!
Just like FEMA recommends!
It's not my invention!
It once existed.
"We" got lazy, and let it fade, not realizing what it did for us, among us!
I don't know enough, to take it the rest of the way.
With the right louder voices, we will spark it into life again!
(Folks like SoS Colin Powell, Gen. Kelly, Gen Mahon, Oliver Stone, Ed Snowden, Michael Moore, Dana Priest, and lists of others...
To say so, about it's potential, at the same time...
Folks are desperate, for anything!
This is their / your / my system.
We can easily revive it!
I give my word!
This will work, because it's filling with others like you!
Lots of thumbs up, each day, for several months! With replies...
Standing by...
Semper Fi!
Thank you, for responding!
Ah, francophobia at its best.
Ike was relying on Dick Winters to make his objectives. The whole operation depended on him. Easy Company was the 101st. They were the famous airborne crack troops of WW2.
You are one deluded clown
Omar Bradley is favorably presented in this movie. In reality, Bradley was in way over his head. He lacked imagination and was a tactical idiot. He got ahead because George Marshall liked him from Marshall's time at Fort Benning when Bradley was in charge of the Demonstration troop unit. For sure he was a petty, insecure, yes-man.