I mean iteration is always good to keep from being made irrelevant, but as long as the basic hull works what matter is the equipment changes inside? It's a good design.
It's crazy to think about, but the tech transfer between the Klingon and Romulans only happened because someone dropped, and severely damaged the Romulan bird of prey model, so they had to say Romulans now using Klingon design.
Scotty: Aye, there be a Klingon D7 battle cruiser! Data: I must correct you sir, it is a K'tinga class. Scotty: Aye? How can ye tell? Data: It is green.
You know, I think that this is more evidence towards my theory of how the Klingon fleet develops. Some house develops a new ship, it eventually gets shifted to the KDF which has a baseline and design that's handed out to the house shipyards which modify/upgrade/alter the ship...the best of those changes then get replicated enough and the standard for the line the KDF manages is updated to the new norm, which gives the various houses a new baseline to, well, trick out for their own advantages... There are probably hundreds or thousands of variants that had changes that went nowhere or were just cosmetic, or, essentially, the result of the klingon version of Pimp My Ride...
My only nit-pick i have is there are two more disruptor canons/turrets facing aft (totaling 8 instead of 6). located right either side of the aft super-structure/hanger, underneath those seconday warp nacells. at 3:22 you can see one of them. Which makes sense when you consider that it would give the ship full coverge of disruptor fire. very important for a warship. awesome video btw, love the visuals and stats rundown!
There is a youtube I may have mentioned this guy before on your channel, who goes by Venom Veek Media. His first set of videos were background lore with a slight touch of dramatization of Romulan and Klingon starships. With the Klingon's D series Battlecruisers laniage being his fourth or fifth video, I think. you would like his videos.
As cool as it was that Strange New Worlds named the Discovery D7 "K'tinga", it kind of messes with the whole "D7 refitted to K'tinga" process. But, with regards to new Trek, continuity with classic Trek doesn't always hold full regard. Admittedly, I really prefer the look of the Discovery D7 over the K'tinga, as it adds a few touches that are frankly missing. And with both of them existing now, the DIS D7 looks more like what a refit of the K'tinga could theoretically appear as. Ehhhh, at least they finally showed us a proper looking Klingon ship, and not the decidedly too gothic/alien looking ships from season 1. Great video as always! Cheers!
If the K'Tinga was the Klingons Excelsior they must have been pretty embarrassed since I'm certain an Excelsior could take multiple of those in a head on fight.
I'm just trying to figure out why TOS Klingons use "D7" and TNG Klingons actually use Klingon names. "D7" had to be the human English translation from before the Universal Translator was ubiquitous.
Include Cardasians and Romulans in your multi-factional exploratory fleey analsys. Do you need to make more than one video? How does the Kamarag and the K'Tanco vector in to what you are saying here and are there further factional examples? Peace!
I love how all the races just keep re fitting old designs some hundreds of years old. Here is a thought. We cant do that. Its like trying to take the Enterprise of WWII and now we want a A1B reactor, a electro mag launch AND for good measure lets put on some laser point defense. You cant do that. Why? There are structural issues with all of that making it easier to build from the ground up.
Aight, I've spent the last 20 minutes on Google trying to figure out how there was a NAR prefix on that Connie in the video. I know its a shot from Star Trek Online. Can someone explain if or how it's possible to get it on ships other than the Tuffli freighter and the Amarie escort?
I like to believe that the Klingons do not "retire" their ships. They find a ship dishonored if it is simply retired, and turned into a "Museum" like Starfleet does with its historical ships. It absolutely needs to meet its end in battle, no matter the cost and labor effort to meet that end. So we find the Klingons in a constant 'Ship of Theseus' situation, where a ships hull might be 120+ years old, but her components inside are not what she initially launched with, but 'state of the art' of the Klingon Empire. Also after so many years, each captain/house "customized" their ships to be very unique. Able to challenge even the federations flagship if clever enough. Every ship lost in great battle is met with blood wine at her final, gloriest end, with her honorable 120+ years of service and history celebrated by the Klingon empire.
@@Daginni1 We actually see the Klingons stagnate in tech development. Remember it's much easier to upgrade starships in Star Trek since they can be left in space and worked on in a 2 dimensional space with more advanced production methods liek Replicators. While reality for sea ships which need special dry docks and often unles desighned for modularity need to be torn apart carefully just to get upgrades, it's often just the process that costs so much, older ships are much harder to upgrade. Then there's sea ship production needing special docks to build them, making ass production hard. Star Trek has ship production as much easier, Starfleet still has limited numbers per class but that's because they keep inovating, trying new ship desighns or tech. We've even seen with the Protostar they can make just 1 ship of a class for experimantal tech. THe Klingins ont he other hand while they do have Scientists and Engineers, those fields are way more limited as most Klingons being a warrior culture focus development more on strategy and combat. I assume Science and Engineering is learned as a neccessary extra thing, thus this means most Klingons learned in these areas are probably alot more limited in ability then even the average Starfleet officer. Simply put if it works, it works. I assume new K'tingas are still produced with newer tech, but as the Klingon's allies and enemies kept going bigger and bigger on ships they realized the K'tings can still serve using it's numbers, but they'd need bigger ships. In TNG this occured as the Galaxy Class and Romulan D'deridex Class were fully made public knowledge, or at least known by the Klingons, so the Vor'cha was created as the new heavy duty ship to counter these. They'd go further with the Negh'var I assume to counter the Sovereighn, or just an attempt to get ahead and have some dreadnoughts in their fleet. The Klingons overall have more limited number of ship classes and ability to engineer new ones being pretty hard, but they make up for it with mass production of higher numbers per class. Small cheaper ships like the K'tinga and Miranda will always be needed, either to fill numbers in fleets as big ships can only target so many enemies, or to serve as a general backbone of a military such as scouting and patrolling places when bigger ships are more limited or needed in more essential places to defend. I love that STO made these ships classes as part of a TYPE of ship, so we'd see newer classes upgrade on what came before, and with Sci Fi logic we could say newer ship modular construction techniques makes these older classes as no longer limitations but cosmetic choices now. As I think STO makes it clear, starships are replacable and easily mass produced, what's actually in short supply and high demand are capable officers to command these ships, which is why the players are allowed to command starships after getting promoted to Lieutenant shortly after graduating Starfleet Academy.
@Daginni1 i could certainly imsgine that to be true. Not hard to imsgine the Klingons would consider being destroyed in glorious battle the *only* fitting end for a warship, and they're (probably) *all* warships in the KDF according to the Klingons.
So would I. Though I suspect the answer would be something like begrudgingly. They were a caste society so ridgid that the warrior caste was able to take over completely. Their empire has been on a steady decline as a result since a society of only warriors leaves no room for research and development. In fact. I'd go so far as to say the only thing that's saved them from civil war is Worf.
They could have just saved a confusion by just saying the D-7 was the Federation designation while K'tinga was the Klingon name. Why would the klingons us Earth letters and numbers making the name of a class of vessel
I am reminded of the line from John M. Ford's "The Final Reflection" where the Klingons are selling cheap sonic weapons to another race, and it is commented that the subterfuge is aided by the fact that Federation translators interpret all _vird'dakaasei_ as 'disruptor' regardkess of their actual method of operation.
I could certainly get behind that. Not unlike a NATO reporting name/designation. The most well-known examples being the ones for Soviet/Russian military aircraft and submarines.
The Klingons apparently have one bonus when it comes to exploration - they often send out more than _one ship by itself._ If the Enterprise had had two other Starfleet ships with it in formation throughout its journeys, it would have had a much easier time of it. The Klingons have also sent out D-7/Katinga/Vor'cha's with a smaller Bird of Prey or two as escort and screening vessels. Starfleet doesn't need to send 3 Constitutions or Excelsiors or Galaxys, together etc. They should, however, have a few smaller specialised ships accompanying every ship of the line. [About the size niche of the Saber class, a 40ish crew ship, able to keep up with the Ship of the Line. Being landing capable would be a nice bonus as well] Not only for potential combat situations, but just to help out whenever a weird space phenomenon of the week cripples or traps the main ship.
The K'tinga is intuitively the upgrade for the D-7 just as the Constitution refit was the upgrade for Connies. And obviously the reason the poor Klingons got stuck with old designs was that new ship models were crazy expensive to make. That's why we were saddled with the "Klingon" BoP for twenty years as the only Klingon ship we usually saw.
There's more to it than that. Klingon ships have history, esprit de corps, and honor in a way that Federation ships don't. Ships are kept in service until they cannot possibly function; mothballing a ship would be like shooting a prized horse.
@@msrlapin99Exactly! And when the Klingons needed something that could stand up to the super-sized explorers the Federation was cranking out (Galaxy and Nebula-class, et al.), they just simply upscaled the scout-sized B'Rel-class design into the K'Vort-class battlecruisers. Until the Vor'cha-class attack cruisers came along, of course. 🖖😎👍
@@Willpower-74205 I have a certain degree of confidence that the K'Vort class battlecruisers carry the name and keelplates of B'Rel class ships that were destroyed in honorable combat.
Gotta love the sheer irony of a warrior society that loves a good fight and expanded it's empire through warfare and conquest calling it's military a "defense force."
@@LordTalaxin a neutral situation you'd be right that having the tactical advantage of surprise would always be a good thing but the Kingons are not neutral, their entire culture is centered around the idea of warriors taking on strong opponents and cloaking your ship should take honor away from a victory that is won through deception rather than direct confrontation
Ah, the Klingon's Excelsior, first saw it on the DS9 and while at first it didn't really strike me as impressive, but I did grow to love it, just like Excelsior.
I always thought of the D7 to be just the Federation Designation for Klingon warships, much like how NATO gave their own designations to Soviet ship classes.
6:30 that's not a K'tinga, that's a Kamarag-Class, the ship that was supposed to replace the K'tinga in the early 24th Century, but wasn't built for a generation after and by that time it was already obsolete.
Interestingly, the term "K'Tinga" dates to the Star Trek - TMP novelization, where they are described as "nearly" as powerful as the refitted Enterprise. It's so awesome that the amazing Matt Jeffries design for the original series lived on for so long afterwards. Great video again, as always. I'm always excited to see a new video up.
I recall something (possibly from an DS9 episode) about late K'tinga class ships often had the most successful Klingon captains assigned to them, it was like a special honour to recognise their performance and experience, so into the TNG/DS9 era if encountering a K'tinga then should be even more wary as it would likely have a formidable crew.
I mean the space Frame itself was just good. So they just kept putting the new tech into each edition. Like how the USA is still using destroyer Hulls that came out of WW2 even to this day, but have very modern equipment in them. Missiles instead of Torpedoes now, and 20mm auto-cannons instead of 127mm cannons. Thta was what the Miranda and Excelsior were for the the federation as well. While the Klingon had D7/K-tingas and Birds of prey they just scaled to new tech. The core space frame just worked.
...Why are you still using STD? STD ain't prime. The D7M K'tinga was introduced in the 2270s. Every model before that was the D7A through G. H through L probably exist somewhere.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Klingon K'tinga as per the difference variations from the D'7 with in the designs of the ships and the various upgrades between the two vessels and so forth and so on, A job very fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
The original D-7's were painted green on their underside, and grey on top. Green was a Klingon color before it was a Romulan color. If anything, the Romulans seem to have adopted the green color scheme after they got some D-7's from the Klingons.
@@ryancox4498 Just found the reference I was thinking of in STA by Modiphious, which I can only assume can be considered canon, as all info would have to be cleared by the studio before publication. The first run of the K'Tinga class was painted in a greenish hue to represent the Romulan Blood spilled, when the Klingons realized the Cloaks they had been given by the Romulans were faulty.
@@scottwalker6947 Doesn't really make sense, since the D-7's were already green. As I had already said. And I can guarantee you that no studio or filmmaker has ever given a single, solitary shit about what some tabletop game said in its flavor text, if they even bothered to remember its existence ten minutes after signing off on it.
@@ryancox4498 Yeah, ok. That is why it takes years to iron out the contracts. Because, no one cares about how a franchise the size of Trek is handled.🤣 Just did an image search, and all TOS D7s that I can find are grey. Hell, even the animated series had them as grey.
@@ryancox4498 Either way it is officially sanctioned information (ie canon). Can the people in charge of the show change it whenever they want, sure. Given that the TTRPG is being handled by more competent individuals then the actual Trek is currently under. I'm positive we could see a change in colour scheme to Purple with Pink poka-dots at any moment.
I’m surprised the Klingons didn’t beef up the neck from the rear section to the front, although they did when the newer battlcruisers in The Next Generation series came out.
"Catinga" in portuguese means "bad smell" it also means a kinda of vegetation typical of the northeastern parte of Brasil. So whenever I hear the "K'tinga class" I think: "Oh! The stinky Klingon ship"
What a waste of video time. The person or persons who designed the STMP Klingon ship, didn't give a flying F*ck about back story or class of ship. They were just told to build a Klingon Ship like the old one from the TOS. Chances are they didn't have the real effects model from TOS to go by, maybe some fuzzy screen shots or old snap shots of the original model. But more that likely they had only the AMT model to go on. There was no late night sessions about the name or weather it was a D-7, they probably just didn't care. All they did was come up with the basic "Shape" and stuck a bunch of greebles on to make it look more modern. The STMP Enterprise didn't match the TOS Enterprise, but they still refer to is as a Constitution Class ship. So why the F*ck not the D-7??? You can quote book and novels all day and it won't change the fact it was down to a bunch of people in a workshop somewhere in Cal. working to create a thing of beauty on a budget and the STMP D-7 looks fantastic.
I really enjoyed that lore lol. This is a wonderful looking ship imho and I'm glad it was still implemented into various Trek series along with B'rel, Miranda and Excelsior classes. All of those ships have an ageless retro type of appeal that make them endearing and just soaked in Star trek that binds the original series to any series that came after featuring them. By comparison, many of the newer ship offerings are rather lacking in character ironically even with all the cgi options available that those original series designers could only dream of. I have to wonder why the producers never featured the Constitution much at all even though it was in the various movies featuring all the ships I mentioned above that still hung around well into DS9's Dominion war fleet battles 🤔
So far as I’m concerned STAR TREK ended before TNG began in an alternate universe. So K’Tinga is the class name for the D-7Ms. Because D-7 hulled ships are perfection. In fact I may need a fireproof suit and bunker after saying this, but…. I despise the TNG and DS9 era ship designs from TV. So 99.99% of Federation and alien ships, particularly the Klingon garbage. CBS/Paramount went with ships that look too much like a bunch of 13 year olds designed them. Though I do like the TNG movie Enterprises. I won’t even risk beginning to froth at the mouth while typing horrendous profanities over the reboot ships or the Discovery. IMO the best designs for UFP, Klingon and Romulan ships came from FASA and it’s not likely I can be convinced otherwise.
For all the fame or infamy that Starfleet earns for trying crazy things that shouldn't work - sometimes with great success, sometimes with abysmal failure - it should be noted that only the Klingons have ever attempted to explore hell. Literal hell. (Well, Klingon Hell, anyway. Gre'thor.) You've got to be a certain combination of brave and reckless to launch an exploration mission to hell intentionally.
Similar to the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation afterwards, the Klingons tend to evolve and further develop/upgrade older, proven and reliable weapons systems. I love the D7 and the K'Tinga class cruisers--so iconic!
I still love the K'tinga and D7 designs. I never really warmed to the Vorcha or the Neng'Vahr class ships of the 24th century. I also really like the Klingon D4 patrol ships from Star Trek Into Darkness.
I think it just comes down to construction. The K'tinga was the last major Klingon ship until the Vor'cha, Klingons have a more limited fleet, thus mass production of these ships makes them more viable then the Connie which saw more limited production and honestly only stuck around because of the Enterprise's fame and the Connie was made a prestigous command, they could be refit and upgraded, but I guess there was something about their constuction that likely made mass production of them unfeasable and continued upgrading impractical, vs just building newer ships like Excelsior. I assume the Miranda despite being Connie in desighn just has things about it that makes mass production of it viable as we see Mirandas in the TNG era with registries higher then Excelsior's, meaning they still saw production for decades more.
if you look at the double row of windows directly above the bow photorp tube, even the 349m length figure is doubtful. I mean, those are meant to be two decks, right? Not one awkward deck with two small rows of misplaced windows (maybe one for their boots and the other for their big 80ies metal hair to look out into space?) So that is appx. the same heigth as the refit Connie saucer...
It would be like boeings plus Aviations 737s and 747s as well as the Federations Excelsior Class where they just keep modifying it and creating variants of the same design.
There really are some problems with classification. Starting back in the late 1960s and the development of the Star Fleet Battles game. which until recent decades was considered canon. Many of the ship definitions we see today are from that very game. The video game Star Fleet Commander was an adaption of the board game. Several of the designers and writers of the original series contributed material to the game. So let me see D5, D6, and D7 all there. In fact, it would be remiss of anyone making comments about ships and classes not to look into this resource.
Is it that the K'Tinga was so much more successful, or is it that the destruction of Praxis so devastated the empire, that their ship design stagnated entirely?
Why would it need a crew of 800? If you consider how much narrower its mission profile is compared to its Starfleet counterparts, you'd think it would have a smaller crew complement.
I remember when i first saw those ships. I assumed they were D-7 cruisers, until I got close to them. Then i was surprised by the size and upgrades I was seeing. I shook my head and said definitely not the D-7. same general design, but something totally different.
There's a difference in design philosophy for sure. There is no 'old, out of date spaceframe' to the klingons, because upgrading a well-seasoned hull carries much more honor than scrapping it for a new one, to the point where battlescars are repaired but not painted over. So, they've gotten quite good at upgrading and keeping a hull in service for several generations.
Much as the Connie Refit has my heart? I appreciate a solid opposing forces ship and these guys showing up in a wolfpack? Be still my heart I rather enjoy the design.
looks very awesome it can be a good shoot and scoot ship have a augmentation where something like the armiger can link up under the nacelle section sharing power and weaponry and do a triple separation in the heat of battle that would be a wicked surprise they think it is just the armiger then boom surpriiise get ready for a beat down
The Klingons are the definition of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
cheptaHvIS , yItchugh, vaj yIqIpbej
I mean iteration is always good to keep from being made irrelevant, but as long as the basic hull works what matter is the equipment changes inside?
It's a good design.
A torpedo launcher is still a torpedo launcher…only the payload is different. It still does the job it was designed for.
Which is one of the most wrongly quoted quotes ever. And is blatantly wrong to boot
@@martinjrgensen8234 How so?
It's crazy to think about, but the tech transfer between the Klingon and Romulans only happened because someone dropped, and severely damaged the Romulan bird of prey model, so they had to say Romulans now using Klingon design.
The Melodic Horn introduced with the K't'inga-class would later be installed on all Klingon spacecraft.
Scotty: Aye, there be a Klingon D7 battle cruiser!
Data: I must correct you sir, it is a K'tinga class.
Scotty: Aye? How can ye tell?
Data: It is green.
You know, I think that this is more evidence towards my theory of how the Klingon fleet develops.
Some house develops a new ship, it eventually gets shifted to the KDF which has a baseline and design that's handed out to the house shipyards which modify/upgrade/alter the ship...the best of those changes then get replicated enough and the standard for the line the KDF manages is updated to the new norm, which gives the various houses a new baseline to, well, trick out for their own advantages...
There are probably hundreds or thousands of variants that had changes that went nowhere or were just cosmetic, or, essentially, the result of the klingon version of Pimp My Ride...
My only nit-pick i have is there are two more disruptor canons/turrets facing aft (totaling 8 instead of 6).
located right either side of the aft super-structure/hanger, underneath those seconday warp nacells. at 3:22 you can see one of them.
Which makes sense when you consider that it would give the ship full coverge of disruptor fire. very important for a warship.
awesome video btw, love the visuals and stats rundown!
There is a youtube I may have mentioned this guy before on your channel, who goes by Venom Veek Media. His first set of videos were background lore with a slight touch of dramatization of Romulan and Klingon starships. With the Klingon's D series Battlecruisers laniage being his fourth or fifth video, I think. you would like his videos.
As cool as it was that Strange New Worlds named the Discovery D7 "K'tinga", it kind of messes with the whole "D7 refitted to K'tinga" process. But, with regards to new Trek, continuity with classic Trek doesn't always hold full regard.
Admittedly, I really prefer the look of the Discovery D7 over the K'tinga, as it adds a few touches that are frankly missing. And with both of them existing now, the DIS D7 looks more like what a refit of the K'tinga could theoretically appear as. Ehhhh, at least they finally showed us a proper looking Klingon ship, and not the decidedly too gothic/alien looking ships from season 1.
Great video as always! Cheers!
Star Fleet releases a new class: "Those ***ing Quasars won't observe themselves."
K’Tinga is analogous to the Enterprise sub-class of the Constitution.
Excelsior’s counterpart would be the apocryphal C8 battlecruiser from ADB.
If the K'Tinga was the Klingons Excelsior they must have been pretty embarrassed since I'm certain an Excelsior could take multiple of those in a head on fight.
I'm just trying to figure out why TOS Klingons use "D7" and TNG Klingons actually use Klingon names. "D7" had to be the human English translation from before the Universal Translator was ubiquitous.
Amusing that the CGI modeler chose to put a Starfleet delta emblem smack dab on the nose of their K'Tinga.
As for the Federation is Miranda class US Military 2.5 ton and Excelisor class US Military 5 ton truck
Include Cardasians and Romulans in your multi-factional exploratory fleey analsys. Do you need to make more than one video? How does the Kamarag and the K'Tanco vector in to what you are saying here and are there further factional examples? Peace!
"I have been Rick". So if you have been Rick, that assumes you are no longer Rick. So who are you now?
The D7/K'Tinga is my #1 favorite ship in Trek. I like the _Miranda_ best among Federation vessels, but the D7/K'Tinga beats it hands down.
I love how all the races just keep re fitting old designs some hundreds of years old. Here is a thought. We cant do that. Its like trying to take the Enterprise of WWII and now we want a A1B reactor, a electro mag launch AND for good measure lets put on some laser point defense. You cant do that. Why? There are structural issues with all of that making it easier to build from the ground up.
It’s a beautiful ship.
Aight, I've spent the last 20 minutes on Google trying to figure out how there was a NAR prefix on that Connie in the video. I know its a shot from Star Trek Online. Can someone explain if or how it's possible to get it on ships other than the Tuffli freighter and the Amarie escort?
1:50 for the timestamp I'm talking about btw
...so it's the Grandpa Buff of the Klingon empire...
4:20 the height had some issues dropping the cloak
Was literally just thinking about this yesterday… do you have a spy gadget in my brain? :p
Because if it wasn't, then it would be a D7. Next question.
do klingons have scientist
🖖
D7.5 class.
🤘😆🤘
Birds with hats for days? For days.
🎩
🐦
An entire video series breaking down how the Klingon empire handles not just exploration, but engineering, medical, etc. would be interesting.
I like to believe that the Klingons do not "retire" their ships. They find a ship dishonored if it is simply retired, and turned into a "Museum" like Starfleet does with its historical ships. It absolutely needs to meet its end in battle, no matter the cost and labor effort to meet that end. So we find the Klingons in a constant 'Ship of Theseus' situation, where a ships hull might be 120+ years old, but her components inside are not what she initially launched with, but 'state of the art' of the Klingon Empire. Also after so many years, each captain/house "customized" their ships to be very unique. Able to challenge even the federations flagship if clever enough.
Every ship lost in great battle is met with blood wine at her final, gloriest end, with her honorable 120+ years of service and history celebrated by the Klingon empire.
Medical?
PetaQ off doctor and let me die!
@@Daginni1 We actually see the Klingons stagnate in tech development. Remember it's much easier to upgrade starships in Star Trek since they can be left in space and worked on in a 2 dimensional space with more advanced production methods liek Replicators. While reality for sea ships which need special dry docks and often unles desighned for modularity need to be torn apart carefully just to get upgrades, it's often just the process that costs so much, older ships are much harder to upgrade. Then there's sea ship production needing special docks to build them, making ass production hard. Star Trek has ship production as much easier, Starfleet still has limited numbers per class but that's because they keep inovating, trying new ship desighns or tech. We've even seen with the Protostar they can make just 1 ship of a class for experimantal tech.
THe Klingins ont he other hand while they do have Scientists and Engineers, those fields are way more limited as most Klingons being a warrior culture focus development more on strategy and combat. I assume Science and Engineering is learned as a neccessary extra thing, thus this means most Klingons learned in these areas are probably alot more limited in ability then even the average Starfleet officer. Simply put if it works, it works. I assume new K'tingas are still produced with newer tech, but as the Klingon's allies and enemies kept going bigger and bigger on ships they realized the K'tings can still serve using it's numbers, but they'd need bigger ships. In TNG this occured as the Galaxy Class and Romulan D'deridex Class were fully made public knowledge, or at least known by the Klingons, so the Vor'cha was created as the new heavy duty ship to counter these. They'd go further with the Negh'var I assume to counter the Sovereighn, or just an attempt to get ahead and have some dreadnoughts in their fleet. The Klingons overall have more limited number of ship classes and ability to engineer new ones being pretty hard, but they make up for it with mass production of higher numbers per class. Small cheaper ships like the K'tinga and Miranda will always be needed, either to fill numbers in fleets as big ships can only target so many enemies, or to serve as a general backbone of a military such as scouting and patrolling places when bigger ships are more limited or needed in more essential places to defend. I love that STO made these ships classes as part of a TYPE of ship, so we'd see newer classes upgrade on what came before, and with Sci Fi logic we could say newer ship modular construction techniques makes these older classes as no longer limitations but cosmetic choices now. As I think STO makes it clear, starships are replacable and easily mass produced, what's actually in short supply and high demand are capable officers to command these ships, which is why the players are allowed to command starships after getting promoted to Lieutenant shortly after graduating Starfleet Academy.
@Daginni1 i could certainly imsgine that to be true. Not hard to imsgine the Klingons would consider being destroyed in glorious battle the *only* fitting end for a warship, and they're (probably) *all* warships in the KDF according to the Klingons.
So would I. Though I suspect the answer would be something like begrudgingly. They were a caste society so ridgid that the warrior caste was able to take over completely. Their empire has been on a steady decline as a result since a society of only warriors leaves no room for research and development. In fact. I'd go so far as to say the only thing that's saved them from civil war is Worf.
They could have just saved a confusion by just saying the D-7 was the Federation designation while K'tinga was the Klingon name. Why would the klingons us Earth letters and numbers making the name of a class of vessel
I always thought the Klingon designation would just be their character for the ‘d’ sound and their word for the number seven.
I am reminded of the line from John M. Ford's "The Final Reflection" where the Klingons are selling cheap sonic weapons to another race, and it is commented that the subterfuge is aided by the fact that Federation translators interpret all _vird'dakaasei_ as 'disruptor' regardkess of their actual method of operation.
I could certainly get behind that. Not unlike a NATO reporting name/designation. The most well-known examples being the ones for Soviet/Russian military aircraft and submarines.
The Klingons apparently have one bonus when it comes to exploration - they often send out more than _one ship by itself._
If the Enterprise had had two other Starfleet ships with it in formation throughout its journeys, it would have had a much easier time of it.
The Klingons have also sent out D-7/Katinga/Vor'cha's with a smaller Bird of Prey or two as escort and screening vessels.
Starfleet doesn't need to send 3 Constitutions or Excelsiors or Galaxys, together etc.
They should, however, have a few smaller specialised ships accompanying every ship of the line.
[About the size niche of the Saber class, a 40ish crew ship, able to keep up with the Ship of the Line. Being landing capable would be a nice bonus as well]
Not only for potential combat situations, but just to help out whenever a weird space phenomenon of the week cripples or traps the main ship.
The K'tinga is intuitively the upgrade for the D-7 just as the Constitution refit was the upgrade for Connies. And obviously the reason the poor Klingons got stuck with old designs was that new ship models were crazy expensive to make. That's why we were saddled with the "Klingon" BoP for twenty years as the only Klingon ship we usually saw.
There's more to it than that. Klingon ships have history, esprit de corps, and honor in a way that Federation ships don't. Ships are kept in service until they cannot possibly function; mothballing a ship would be like shooting a prized horse.
@@msrlapin99Exactly! And when the Klingons needed something that could stand up to the super-sized explorers the Federation was cranking out (Galaxy and Nebula-class, et al.), they just simply upscaled the scout-sized B'Rel-class design into the K'Vort-class battlecruisers. Until the Vor'cha-class attack cruisers came along, of course. 🖖😎👍
@@Willpower-74205 I have a certain degree of confidence that the K'Vort class battlecruisers carry the name and keelplates of B'Rel class ships that were destroyed in honorable combat.
Gotta love the sheer irony of a warrior society that loves a good fight and expanded it's empire through warfare and conquest calling it's military a "defense force."
Tough guys that rely on cloaks.
@@evacuatedspace6946 Nothing wrong with tactical advantages. Just like stealth aircraft today.
“The best defense is a great offense.” -Klingons, very likely.
@@evacuatedspace6946 tell that to the Scout Snipers.
@@LordTalaxin a neutral situation you'd be right that having the tactical advantage of surprise would always be a good thing but the Kingons are not neutral, their entire culture is centered around the idea of warriors taking on strong opponents and cloaking your ship should take honor away from a victory that is won through deception rather than direct confrontation
I love the K'Tinga. Every since my mom bought me the model in 1991 for Christmas. I just fell in love with it. So classic.
I have that model and it's one of my favorite paint jobs. I display it proudly in my fleet museum.
I got the Diecast version alongside the Enterprise when they first came in the early 80s, beautiful model, really is!
To me, this ship, K'Tinga, D7, whatever, was the ultimate battleship. I just looked awesome.
Best non Star Fleet ship!
Ah, the Klingon's Excelsior, first saw it on the DS9 and while at first it didn't really strike me as impressive, but I did grow to love it, just like Excelsior.
I would be very interested in the variations of Klingon exploration in compared to Starfleet’s
I always thought of the D7 to be just the Federation Designation for Klingon warships, much like how NATO gave their own designations to Soviet ship classes.
6:30 that's not a K'tinga, that's a Kamarag-Class, the ship that was supposed to replace the K'tinga in the early 24th Century, but wasn't built for a generation after and by that time it was already obsolete.
That is correct, it is a Kamarag in that clip.
Interestingly, the term "K'Tinga" dates to the Star Trek - TMP novelization, where they are described as "nearly" as powerful as the refitted Enterprise.
It's so awesome that the amazing Matt Jeffries design for the original series lived on for so long afterwards. Great video again, as always. I'm always excited to see a new video up.
I recall something (possibly from an DS9 episode) about late K'tinga class ships often had the most successful Klingon captains assigned to them, it was like a special honour to recognise their performance and experience, so into the TNG/DS9 era if encountering a K'tinga then should be even more wary as it would likely have a formidable crew.
I mean the space Frame itself was just good. So they just kept putting the new tech into each edition. Like how the USA is still using destroyer Hulls that came out of WW2 even to this day, but have very modern equipment in them. Missiles instead of Torpedoes now, and 20mm auto-cannons instead of 127mm cannons. Thta was what the Miranda and Excelsior were for the the federation as well. While the Klingon had D7/K-tingas and Birds of prey they just scaled to new tech. The core space frame just worked.
...Why are you still using STD? STD ain't prime.
The D7M K'tinga was introduced in the 2270s. Every model before that was the D7A through G. H through L probably exist somewhere.
Like STD, Enterprise isn't prime either.
It breaks canon almost as badly as STD does
I like the artwork on the forward torpedo launcher.
I'd love to see a video about the Warp Scale revision some time
I like how the Kamarag battlecruiser looks like the ship that is the bridge between the D7/K'tinga and the Vor'Cha battlecruisers.
What's this "NAR" ship registry at 1:50?
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Klingon K'tinga as per the difference variations from the D'7 with in the designs of the ships and the various upgrades between the two vessels and so forth and so on, A job very fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
I can't remember where I heard it, but I like the story about the Klingons painting the K'Tinga green to represent Romulan blood.
The original D-7's were painted green on their underside, and grey on top. Green was a Klingon color before it was a Romulan color. If anything, the Romulans seem to have adopted the green color scheme after they got some D-7's from the Klingons.
@@ryancox4498 Just found the reference I was thinking of in STA by Modiphious, which I can only assume can be considered canon, as all info would have to be cleared by the studio before publication. The first run of the K'Tinga class was painted in a greenish hue to represent the Romulan Blood spilled, when the Klingons realized the Cloaks they had been given by the Romulans were faulty.
@@scottwalker6947 Doesn't really make sense, since the D-7's were already green. As I had already said. And I can guarantee you that no studio or filmmaker has ever given a single, solitary shit about what some tabletop game said in its flavor text, if they even bothered to remember its existence ten minutes after signing off on it.
@@ryancox4498 Yeah, ok. That is why it takes years to iron out the contracts. Because, no one cares about how a franchise the size of Trek is handled.🤣 Just did an image search, and all TOS D7s that I can find are grey. Hell, even the animated series had them as grey.
@@ryancox4498 Either way it is officially sanctioned information (ie canon). Can the people in charge of the show change it whenever they want, sure. Given that the TTRPG is being handled by more competent individuals then the actual Trek is currently under. I'm positive we could see a change in colour scheme to Purple with Pink poka-dots at any moment.
I’m surprised the Klingons didn’t beef up the neck from the rear section to the front, although they did when the newer battlcruisers in The Next Generation series came out.
"Catinga" in portuguese means "bad smell" it also means a kinda of vegetation typical of the northeastern parte of Brasil. So whenever I hear the "K'tinga class" I think: "Oh! The stinky Klingon ship"
What a waste of video time. The person or persons who designed the STMP Klingon ship, didn't give a flying F*ck about back story or class of ship. They were just told to build a Klingon Ship like the old one from the TOS. Chances are they didn't have the real effects model from TOS to go by, maybe some fuzzy screen shots or old snap shots of the original model. But more that likely they had only the AMT model to go on. There was no late night sessions about the name or weather it was a D-7, they probably just didn't care. All they did was come up with the basic "Shape" and stuck a bunch of greebles on to make it look more modern. The STMP Enterprise didn't match the TOS Enterprise, but they still refer to is as a Constitution Class ship. So why the F*ck not the D-7??? You can quote book and novels all day and it won't change the fact it was down to a bunch of people in a workshop somewhere in Cal. working to create a thing of beauty on a budget and the STMP D-7 looks fantastic.
I really enjoyed that lore lol.
This is a wonderful looking ship imho and I'm glad it was still implemented into various Trek series along with B'rel, Miranda and Excelsior classes.
All of those ships have an ageless retro type of appeal that make them endearing and just soaked in Star trek that binds the original series to any series that came after featuring them.
By comparison, many of the newer ship offerings are rather lacking in character ironically even with all the cgi options available that those original series designers could only dream of.
I have to wonder why the producers never featured the Constitution much at all even though it was in the various movies featuring all the ships I mentioned above that still hung around well into DS9's Dominion war fleet battles 🤔
So far as I’m concerned STAR TREK ended before TNG began in an alternate universe. So K’Tinga is the class name for the D-7Ms. Because D-7 hulled ships are perfection.
In fact I may need a fireproof suit and bunker after saying this, but…. I despise the TNG and DS9 era ship designs from TV. So 99.99% of Federation and alien ships, particularly the Klingon garbage. CBS/Paramount went with ships that look too much like a bunch of 13 year olds designed them. Though I do like the TNG movie Enterprises. I won’t even risk beginning to froth at the mouth while typing horrendous profanities over the reboot ships or the Discovery.
IMO the best designs for UFP, Klingon and Romulan ships came from FASA and it’s not likely I can be convinced otherwise.
For all the fame or infamy that Starfleet earns for trying crazy things that shouldn't work - sometimes with great success, sometimes with abysmal failure - it should be noted that only the Klingons have ever attempted to explore hell. Literal hell. (Well, Klingon Hell, anyway. Gre'thor.) You've got to be a certain combination of brave and reckless to launch an exploration mission to hell intentionally.
Similar to the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation afterwards, the Klingons tend to evolve and further develop/upgrade older, proven and reliable weapons systems. I love the D7 and the K'Tinga class cruisers--so iconic!
I still love the K'tinga and D7 designs. I never really warmed to the Vorcha or the Neng'Vahr class ships of the 24th century. I also really like the Klingon D4 patrol ships from Star Trek Into Darkness.
I think it just comes down to construction. The K'tinga was the last major Klingon ship until the Vor'cha, Klingons have a more limited fleet, thus mass production of these ships makes them more viable then the Connie which saw more limited production and honestly only stuck around because of the Enterprise's fame and the Connie was made a prestigous command, they could be refit and upgraded, but I guess there was something about their constuction that likely made mass production of them unfeasable and continued upgrading impractical, vs just building newer ships like Excelsior. I assume the Miranda despite being Connie in desighn just has things about it that makes mass production of it viable as we see Mirandas in the TNG era with registries higher then Excelsior's, meaning they still saw production for decades more.
if you look at the double row of windows directly above the bow photorp tube, even the 349m length figure is doubtful. I mean, those are meant to be two decks, right? Not one awkward deck with two small rows of misplaced windows (maybe one for their boots and the other for their big 80ies metal hair to look out into space?) So that is appx. the same heigth as the refit Connie saucer...
It would be like boeings plus Aviations 737s and 747s as well as the Federations Excelsior Class where they just keep modifying it and creating variants of the same design.
There really are some problems with classification. Starting back in the late 1960s and the development of the Star Fleet Battles game. which until recent decades was considered canon. Many of the ship definitions we see today are from that very game. The video game Star Fleet Commander was an adaption of the board game. Several of the designers and writers of the original series contributed material to the game. So let me see D5, D6, and D7 all there. In fact, it would be remiss of anyone making comments about ships and classes not to look into this resource.
I'd like to see video breaking down not only the UFP and Klingon exploration doctrines, but other groups as well like the Romulans, Cardassians, etc
The weakness of this class of ship is a heavy dose of deodorant!
Ps: K'tinga sounds like "catinga", a brazilian slang for bad smell, specially BO
What are those hydraulic looking pillars used for on a klingon bridge? They're pretty standard across multiple different classes of vessel.
He always was a stunning looker! BYW... i never knew she was larger then the D7, the old SE didn't mention it, if memory serves....
Is it that the K'Tinga was so much more successful, or is it that the destruction of Praxis so devastated the empire, that their ship design stagnated entirely?
Why would it need a crew of 800? If you consider how much narrower its mission profile is compared to its Starfleet counterparts, you'd think it would have a smaller crew complement.
I remember when i first saw those ships. I assumed they were D-7 cruisers, until I got close to them. Then i was surprised by the size and upgrades I was seeing. I shook my head and said definitely not the D-7. same general design, but something totally different.
There's a difference in design philosophy for sure.
There is no 'old, out of date spaceframe' to the klingons, because upgrading a well-seasoned hull carries much more honor than scrapping it for a new one, to the point where battlescars are repaired but not painted over. So, they've gotten quite good at upgrading and keeping a hull in service for several generations.
Nice video, and my favorite ship design in the ST universe. However, it's K't'inga, not K'Tinga. You've left out the second ' in the name.
K'tinga ... "CATINGA" brazilian slang for smelly or bad smell. (the more you know) hehe
Much as the Connie Refit has my heart? I appreciate a solid opposing forces ship and these guys showing up in a wolfpack? Be still my heart I rather enjoy the design.
The Klingon battle cruiser is one of my favourite ships!
The Klingon K'Tinga is to the D-7 what the Consitution Refit is to the original Consitution. The K'Tinga is a refit D-7.
looks very awesome it can be a good shoot and scoot ship have a augmentation where something like the armiger can link up under the nacelle section sharing power and weaponry and do a triple separation in the heat of battle that would be a wicked surprise they think it is just the armiger then boom surpriiise get ready for a beat down
Troughs dimensions are factually wrong unless you expect me to buy that its 80m longer than the D7
I just always thought the Klingons basically instructed their ship yards to make it bigger and add more guns.
B'rel class = USSR Military 2.5 truck. D7/K'Tinga Class =5 ton Truck
After decades watching Star Trek, i never understood the Klingons as a warp capable species.
I have to wonder if the K'Tinga has anything analegous to Federation style saucer separation .
lol Klingons explore team poke it with a stick if no response beat the thing with same stick still you get your desired response lol
It gained a true Sombrero.
"if it does mu rder, don't change it to make more mu rdery in case you actually reduce the amount of mu rder"
A D7...only tougher and prettier. Noice!!!!
Its practically the klingon miranda
God I hate any ship that has anything to do with STD and Kurtsman trek. Ugh good video
So Klingon philosophy was if it ain't broke don't fix it
So K7/Kitinga are the Brooklin /St Louis being the same but not.
I do like the look of the K'Tinga. The hull plating gives it style
07:05 That was a shamefully timid, _Qapla'_ there Rick!
Rick, I'm a K'Vort Class captain.
This is still one of my favourite klingon ships
Right off the bat, the frontal view of said ship.
Gah! The dreaded DS9 tech manual stats!
I've asked this before. If he's been Rick, who is he now?
And now i wonder how the Klingons call the D7
Straight away, the interior seems to be a bit foggy.
4:04 I would love a video explaining the two!
New sub, love this content.