Can you hear the "line array" effect?
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2022
- Devin and Jared hear the differences between point source and line array speakers, as well as what the bow-ties in front of NEXO line array speakers do, and also what their folded high-frequency horn sounds like.
Thanks to PA of the DAY for their support!
shop.paoftheday.com/
NEXO speakers:
www.nexo-sa.com/
If you missed it, here's part 2:
• Things you didn't real...
Binaural microphone:
3diosound.com/
#sound #audio #speakers #subwoofers #acoustics #technology #design #engineering - Наука та технологія
Be honest, you met Jared in a Starbucks and just asked him along for this and to say nothing.
Actually we drug him out of the studio for the first time in years. Took a while for his eyes to adjust to the light.
He did help with the measuring tape, but wanted union labor rates and workers comp before doing anything more.
But in all seriousness, it was super fun having Jared come over to experience these things in person with us… Devin’s part was just highly scripted and rehearsed for time’s sake.
@@devinlsheets_alphasound video was great guys, I just saw an opportunity for comedy value and took it. Thanks though
@@Pedro-0839 Devin: "So, what'd you think?"
Jared: "Que?"
Speaker design is one of those things that feels like the more you learn about it the further you get from actually understanding the subject. Enclosure volume based on T/S parameters... Got it. Passive crossover design and all the math figured out... What? The components altered the phase so I have to get that lined back up? Okay okay got it. Baffle step? Damnit...
And yet it's so addicting 😂
there is a very good reason why i personally prefer 4th order active crossovers. on the passive side i perfer to add compensation networks to get rid of the impedance going everywehere around the place. then, and only then, i re-measure the t/s parameters with the passive compensation elements included. then i design my boxes, and then i figure out a decent crossing point.
Love how you were able to calculate wavelength in your environment to give the crossover frequency on the spot! That's a real Audio Engineer folks
It is not measuring. Don’t get it mixed up. It is mixing. Before there where any RTA’s. They did all by ear to get a natural rock sound out of a dull PA or home set up. 😂❤
This is the best explanation of line array theory . Excellent video!
Very rare, to see (and hear) such things that clear. Nicely made. Thank you.
Very interesting! People rarely do audible demonstrations like that because it is much more work than just explaining stuff without, I guess... Thanks for going the extra mile!
It’s also extremely expensive.
I’ve always been fascinated by line arrays - either for pro applications or home audio. Im the guy that goes to a concert and spends more time studying the gear and sound quality than watching the show.
That's me, too. haha We've got a lot of pictures of me craning my neck around antennas, up at the ceiling where the WiFI APs or other electronics are, and at concerts, my dear SO doesn't even ask, she just stakes out a spot near the sound tent.
I tried watching tear down after a Newsboys concert...from a distance not to be in the way. Got thrown out by some peacock who probably had little to do than strut around. The band was good. That was at Target Center, MN, some years ago.
I did enjoy this video. Well explained.
--Retired broadcast engineer
@@raynoldwalker9296
Interesting ... what a jerk for kicking you out!
I've been involved with the biggest stadium tours/concerts.
They can easily take several days to build/assemble and tune.
Whereas the load out is typically executed in hours!
I have actually left a concert due to its poor sound quality.. And i really liked the band!
@@rbnjr
I get it!
It would suck to have to leave.
If it's the venue, ... it can't be fixed. If it's the rig or the mix ... then it's possible to get better.
This video is incredible. I understood line arrays but I didn’t understand some of the choices and science that go behind the box designs. Thank you for putting the time and effort into this and explaining everything so well with practice explanations.
The physics of sound reproduction are absolutely fascinating, impossible to get my head around, but fascinating none the less.
as a Post Ph. D. in physics/acoustics, i can tell you the fascination never ends....buy some $50 balance armatures e.i.m. and enjoy the miracle
@@lunam7249
You're absolutely right.
I've been at it full tilt since the 70's, ... I never tire of it, and there's always somewhat more to explore.
Physics on both the acoustic and the electrical, electro-magnetic side.
Plus the extraordinary world of pyscho-acoustics.
@@FOH3663 interesting that you say that!! anomaly's, under perfect condition using the best hifi audio amps and speakers true distortion and signal to noise is high!! THD 10%, and s/n = 45db......yet we call that audiophile "perfect sound"!!! similarly, "mono" signal turned into stereo = 3 db sound power, but the brain interprets as + 15db!!, and discrimination between 2 signals = -17db.....-20 = unnoticeable!! wierd huh!!??? the brain is wayy more powerful of an interpreter!!
@@lunam7249
I'd need more specifics to comment confidently, ie., freq and level, etc.
One thing I'm certain of, ... a mistake way too many enthusiasts make;
Measurement mics don't capture sound energy anything like the way we perceive and experience sound energy.
Not simply the Equal Loudness Contours, but our ability for various discrimination methods, complex masking, etc., many other attributes.
Thanks
I adore how Devin keeps saying "this company" or "this manufacturer".....how can we possibly know who we are talking about??? Keeping the suspense alive 😫
OXEN.
Oh wait, that’s upside down
Nexo.
Nexo
Really appreciate the quality of content that you've got in your videos!
Actions speak louder than words, very impressive demo.
It's incredible. It's non easy to find information on this topic made so clear and concise
Thanks Jared….. Glad you stood there with me and agreed.
Please never stop making videos, thanks ❤️
Thanks for making these videos. A practical approach to test theory!
one the finest video I found, great explanation with great presentation. 👍
What a great demonstration on the workings of a line array. Very concise!
Thumbs up for Jared’s sweet nod!!
My first array on the road was an S8 rig with CD12 for lows. Loved that little guy. It’s really cool to see how the individual parts contribute to its sound.
I just found your channel tonight. Love the content. Keep ‘em coming guys 👍
How did you find our channel?
This is an awesome video! Well done explaining the various ways to contort the sound to your exact application. Versed heavy bass heads understand the theories and compromise when shooting for max spl in a target area. We do the same tricks to aim pressure at the dash where it counts on the meter.
I never thought to study line array setups in large venues, but this definitely should open up some minds, even for unintended watchers such as myself. I'll probably spend some time in the living room for once and play around a bit now, it definitely gave me some ideas to try in my mobile and home environment. Time to buy an RTA. Thanks again for sharing!
What An Amzing Video And AMAZING Channel - Defiently will watch most of your videos !
Thank You So Much !
I was a roadie on one of the first (if not the first) touring show to use line array speakers. And the BEST demo/explanation I've ever seen. Thank You.
Incredible information for studio mixing engineer. Thank you guys.
Awesome so informative. What a leap in performance with ADD on pieces to your woofer and tweeter!
This is the best vid for line array theory I have ever seen!!. Thanks!
Thankyou so much for these interesting video's!
Great series of videos. Thanks for sharing
Excellent work…! Makes a sensible presentation!
You are an awesome teacher. Thank you for making me _understanding_ things. I knew it is a hyperboloid waveguide. But after you explaining it, I understood it.
Very cool demonstration!
Very cool and great explanation of the products.
Excellent vid!! Thank you!
Great demo
Thank you. I've always wondered about this but never looked into it. Very clear demonstration. I have a line array of mid drivers on one of my bass guitar cabs (Genzler) and it's nice to know it's not just snake oil! :)
Excellent video. Taught me some cool things
Such a great video, I learned so much
I have noticed this while messing around with my little home audio speakers. Placing the speakers on each side of the room like a normal person gives a spacious sound due to the stereo mix. However, placing them right next to each other, so they touch on the sides, has given me an enhanced vocal range clarity, and an overall sense of power and greater loudness: a more “in your face” sort of sound that I really like. However, it also focuses the sound toward a certain area of the room, directly in front of the speakers, but I can move up and down and get a similar sound. This makes sense, based on what I know about physics. Then when I turn up the bass, I notice I can actually feel it when the speakers are in that position! Really digging my experimentation with what you call the “line array effect” though the majority of my speakers are effectively point sources with a nearly 180 degree wide conical dispersion, and the woofers in one set of old 70s Sonys are only rated for 6 watts, but I only have the volume on 0.5/10 on my old reciever and they are already loud! I literally can’t turn it any lower or one channel will cut out, unless I activate the convenient -20dB mode on my reciever, which I do near bedtime.
What you're referring to is mutual coupling ... minimizing destructive summation.
need more tutorials like this inbox would greatly appriciat
This is interesting and refreshing in a world I’ve been consumed with. Love it
Esta muy genial el vídeo ya que es muy ilustrativo y práctico, podemos entender fácilmente las funciones que tiene los arreglos lineales y el porque de los componentes de las cajas acusticas.
Great explanation
we have nexo PA system in our venu... but after watching your video... It makes a lot of sens about how it works :)
Hands down the best explanation on UA-cam even a five year old would understand awesome job guys 👍👍👍👍👍👍💯💯💯
These videos are so great but I find the background music irritating and unnecessary.. especially destracting in videos where you really want to listen closely to how the audio is affected. Could you consider future videos with no music? Thanks for taking the time to make such clear and practical demonstrations of these properties.
I didn’t notice until you said something, I think it’s tastefully done. M.O.
But I’m listening with headphones
Don't listen to this guy, background music was fine.
Gotta say your way of explaining it is amazing. Thanks for the videos. +1 Sub
Very cool and very informative! Alpha Sound, have you ever tried using only a single side of the horn/waveguide inserts for an asymmetrical horizontal dispersion? Or are those inserts only meant to be used in pairs? Thanks!
Great info. Thank you
Awesome!
You should curve the line array system inwards to see what happens. It’s pretty much the only thing that was left!
I still own the S and no one has ever ever explained it like that. Wonderful.
This is pretty cool!
Subscribed. Super cool stuff!
Happy little video!
SPL dropoff = inverse square law, works for flash photography too!!! Interesting study would be Danley Sound Labs products!!!😎👍🏻
I would love to see you do a video on sirens for vehicles. And use your knowledge of speaker engineering and frequency to improve the tech thats been in use for decades. Could save alot of lives. Wish i had the education myself. I love car audio,played drums in live bands and was a firefighter.
AT LAST . . . Explanations that I can follow . . And understand!!!!!
NICE JOB . . certainly gets a sub from me . . THANKYOU!!!!!
I Just Want To Say Thank You 🙏🏾
SUPER SIR💥SALUTE YOUR HARD WORK SIR 👏💯
More of this video, please.
Great Examples!!
Does the obstruction in front of the driver trick work on for example a 15" sub playing down to say 30hz, and what is the calculation for dimensions?
Not to get off topic but that compression horn speaker is similar to the horn antennas KS 15676 and conical diagonal reflector horn antenna. A periscope like design. What happens the microwave signal goes up the cable feed through the horn antenna and inside the antenna is a reflector that is tilted at an angle where the microwave signals bounce off at in and out into space. These antennas are use in telecommunication purposes and the telephone company that used it was Bell South and now AT&T. The advantage of this design is to have high signal gain. That compression driver with that periscope like design Will probably have a higher dB range and a long throw coverage than most standard compression horn speaker.
Great observation! There is probably a similar effect going on. Do you know if the intent behind the KS 15676 design is to flatten out the radio wave edge instead of it being spherical as it travels outward?
The compression driver is unique, I like it.
@@devinlsheets_alphasound Sorry for the late response. The intent behind the design is to narrow the microwave signal into a beam which sends it further in distance with less or no sidelobes.
@@sherrokinchen5253 There's a $25 fee for late responses on this channel
Yeah, I’m familiar with the old western electric KS-15676 horn style microwave antennas, and I also noticed the similarity between that design and the Nexo folded horn seen here as the high-frequency component of the example speakers.
We still have a site with those old antennas remaining unused in my city. Those were the antennas used to transmit phone signals between cities, part of what was known as the “long line” system. Most were deactivated some time in the 80s if I remember correctly. Those antennas were line of sight devices, and had to point directly at each other with no obstructions, much like speakers will not sound good if there’s an object between the speaker and your ear. That’s why they had to be placed on high ground or on high rise buildings or towers to work: the vast majority of urban sites have been blocked by new construction around them, so they wouldn’t work anymore.
This is a great video
Super interesting!
Great stuff. Thank you. Ever look a distortion analyzer with and without a phase-plug type devices in front of a low-mid?
We have not! That would be interesting to see, although our suspicion is that it does not cause distortion. It certainly doesn't seem to cause any audible distortion that we can hear.
@@devinlsheets_alphasound thanks for reply. Oh it do. Of course everything’s a trade off. BTW you’re doing very nice demonstrations. Thanks again
Line array speakers are never just a pile of mundane speaker boxes hinged together. The precise acoustics and mathematics is the magic.
this is so cool
Now! I understand boundary integrators and horizontal dispersion vs vertical dispersion as the relate to crossover integration for low to high 2-ways. I’ve seen this technology on 3 ways for low, mids, high’s in JBL Vertec products( no disrespect but I’m a JBL man.) But I also see Overseas (UK) and Domestic brand deploy this same technology
Is this why I hear the music in a circular motion at electrinic music shows? Like the nusic sounds likenits getting closer and then goes further. Idk how to describe but the effect is awesome. Im still learning this. very fascinating
Used to be that when you unplug the speakers the smoke used to escape from the amplifier and you could never get it back in again. How times have changed.
That was interesting. I also love how beard guy is just silently , “if you say so…”
Awesome video.one quation,why portable speaker use passive radiator instade off bass port?
sound is similar to light when it projected straight out of the source. but when using reflective wall it is kind of contrasting to the light, as the reflective point will cancel the up coming source. only the non-cancelled sound will beamed out.
great video, audio UA-cam has been lacking lately, except here at AlphaSound
Share it with someone!
brilliant
You guys are doing a great job with these videos and I'm impressed by the amounts of views they are getting. Turns out what I've been studying for the past 7 years of my life is interesting for more than just engineers and enthusiasts and I love it.
One thing I'm gonna say about this one, though, is I don't like the closing statement in regards to SPL distribution over big crowds. Whilist it is true that the first few boxes will not behave the same, the theory behind line array speakers is that they should provide the same SPL no matter how distant one is from the array. That is the reason why line arrays were invented in the first place.
Having taken this into account, the first boxes work alone as they are fully capable of reaching the required SPL by themselves while the ones that must reach further are grouped as they would not. Therefore saying the first boxes will have less SPL is almost completely incorrect. Instead, they will have the same average SPL but it will be differently distributed over the frequency range due to the different acoustic behaviour.
I feel like this should have been explained a little bit more in-depth as only those who already know the subject pretty well could tell that it doesn't exactly work that way.
Other than that, kudos for the video. I guess I should start doing some as well. 😄
So actually your explanation IS what I intended to convey lol. Maybe I could have been clearer! But here’s more detail:
Nexo is one manufacturer that actually does have every box fire with the same SPL. They don’t do any shading or differing processing for different parts of the array. But, many other manufacturers do have different processing for different boxes in the array. I can see the benefits of both, but I err on the side of Nexo’s philosophy.
How do you handle stereo with line array effect. Do L and R lines meet in the middle? If so, do middle speakes need some kind of LR mixing?
Nice vid demonstrating the line array affect! I always thought the woofer covers reduce the shoutyness screams by somewhat dispersing the high directivity frequencies but no its actually from what I'm guessing is filling in the gaps between the speakers for more uniformity and anti comb filtering. Btw can you make a video about horn loaded subwoofers? I want some very technical info that's so hard to find on the internet. Like how much sensitivity can increase and changes in frequency response. I know that horn loading a tweeter boost the low end but ive never seen that phenomenon mentioned on subwoofers. All i know is subs (especially 18s) are very small for the frequencies they produce. That even adding dimensional planes makes a horn effect.
Horn loaded subs come in a variety of types. Which ones are you most interested in? The two popular types for general PA are tapped horns, and a blind loaded type horn (a type more akin to traditional tapered transmission line designs)
@@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse all types really but i was thinking more like the cerwin vega horn sub. Sealed back chamber. Im also curious about that 6th order bandpass look but without the front chamber. Like bassboss vs21. Lastly those scoop horns. Do they even hit low?
@@nathankills
Check out data-bass ... Josh Ricci's extraordinary resource.
btw; CV's Earthquake type cabinets are folded horns.
Hoffman's Iron Law governs everything;
- Deep Extension
- Small Size
- High Output
You can only pick two.
No exceptions, ... physics wins every time.
Love it.
Very interesting
Hey AS, so what material are used of all that covers to get to higher frequencies, is it plastic or metal, and also what is the effect to the low frequencies if the covers were made of wood? thanks.
Question, the "little devices in front of the woofer" to divide each woofer into 2(so to speak). Can you recommend a paper(or better yet a guide) on that structure? I have been thinking of building an array for personal use as a PA for years. It address an issue that has stopped me many times. Please help.
Grate video
Horek istimewa ❤
@ALPHA SOUND
Devin, how does the Bowtie affect the directivity or beaming point of the 8" midwoofer?
IOW, with the Bowtie in place, will the 8" midwoofer still start to beam at the same frequency as a "virgin" 8" driver, or will you gain another octave of HF extension as well as raise the beaming point another octave higher?
In my use case scenario, not in a line array but in a simple, large-ish 2-way "bookshelf" speaker and a separate subwoofer to cover the bottom octaves, I want to be able to raise the usable upper bandwidth of a 6.5" midwoofer to better match the ideal X/O frequency of a traditional 1-1/8" dome tweeter.
But, I want to maintain Wide Directivity and don't want the 6.5" midwoofer to begin beaming or to narrow its directivity at the higher X/O point to the tweeter.
Will the Bowtie cause the 6.5" midwoofer to beam lower in frequency than normal, or higher in frequency than normal?
Thank you 100x for the excellent videos with actual *usable* binaural audio that clearly demonstrate the effects! 👍👍
Alpha Sound, you are doing great work here on UA-cam. That said, the genii of ‘audio’ will never stop. There is nothing they can’t imagine they know. Empirical data is so inconvenient.
Can you explain how you calculated the shape and size of the woofer cover?
That would be a question for the engineers at NEXO
Who makes the horn WG and the devices for the speakers that would be helpful I would love to try this in car audio
How do you combat aliasing effect on midrange?
A couple corrections.
When you fold a horn, you always reflect off a flat surface like a mirror. The horn itself has a flat reflector at the fold, not curved like you drew it. The reflector is curved on the axis that is 90 degrees to the conical section, which entirely spoils the off axis directivity (as you demonstrated, it did not have constant volume inside the area that it should). The curved portion appears to be an oblate spheroid, which is considered similar to but inferior to tractrix - so a good compromise for a concert, it will radiate a spherical wave that is very non-directive so combing will be reduced.
These horns are pretty stubby to begin with, I doubt they where able to shorten it with their "special" reflector. Putting conical sides on a curved horn tends to produce "horn" sound (think Klipsch), most likely that reflector is helping with that
At 3,22 , where i can find this little plate (device)??? wish to put it to my 12 inc!
Hi. What's the full name of these boxes? Thanks :)
This is a cool more scientific visualization to what I heard a concert audio engineer talking about in a couple other videos. Same concepts though. Super cool considering all I did was google PA speakers a couple weeks ago. LOL
the guy doesn't seem to care how cool this is
the woofer splitter would work on any woofer right?
You discover all this if you have played with speakers for over 30 years or more ❤
@ALPHA SOUND
Devin, you might be interested in taking a look at the *Audiofrog CLA-52H Dual 5-1/4” Compact Line Array* and complimentary *CLA-52W 10” Bass Reflex Woofer* for smaller venues.
*Audiofrog* was founded by Andy Wehmeyer who for 19 years worked alongside such notable engineers as Dr. Floyd Toole at Harman Int'l/JBL.
Is it functional to use full range drivers in a line array and then horn the entire array?
Not enough people talk about sound like this.. When I tell people I like music I mean that I like everything about music down to the physics of reproducing it lol