In my experience this idea holds up. I moved out from home and went to university and over my four years there I have really made progress in breaking away from obsessing habits and seeing the true flimsy nature of them as thoughts, yet whenever I go home (where I was truly obsessive and miserable for years) I almost always start to sink back into obsessive habits. It's like when a heroin addict returns to the environment in which he used to shoot up, he starts getting strong withdrawal symptoms, because the environment has become a trigger. Very interesting point that could make for some interesting research.
During my ocd recovery i discovered lately that sitting with anxiety discomfort and embarrassing it feelings , is better than all the compilations i have been doing for sooo long , thank you for the awareness you give us about ocd ❤
It is a wonderful discovery. It really is much easier and more enjoyable to sit with difficult feelings than practice all of the compulsions. Enjoy continuing the exploration!
Really really great video. Every time I think I understand my ocd and anxiety, something new pops up and I see things differently. I'm newly diagnosed and keep wondering what's what. My tendency to obsessively research and fact find feels like it's jamming my capability to understand what's going on with me....like there's a really important meeting I haven't been invited to in my own head lol x
We Hate The Same Things that's very common - OCD is a system that always tries to pull us in, one way or the other. It will make it sound reasonable, important, etc. for you to engage with it.
Thank YOU I needed this right now. My OCD is mostly about feelings that I don't understand like what seeing particular images makes me feel. I get uncertain and try convincing myself that I understand but I keep getting another OCD that these are rational uncertainties and need answers.
They are all parallel for sure!!!!! OCD/addiction/anxiety/depression. I already had anxiety and depression but my adderall (I dont ADHD, so abusing) addiction for 12 years has been a major cause my OCD. And also caused me to ruminate negative thoughts over and over. I tend to think addiction/behavioral patterns are a spectrum personally. It flares up in times of stress for all of us. Its an unconscious process for the most part. It’s about how we choose to spend our time and energy I think. We become conscious of our behaviors and patterns and then we can finally work on changing them. Thank you dude!
really amazing stuff as always. Beyond anything I've heard in my 40 plus years. I never thought about that little dopamine hit we get when we VERY temporarily find relief by engaging in a compulsion.
Fantastic video bro, thanks for this. Been watching a lot of your videos recently and trying to apply these methods to my own experience - thanks for the help man.
That's such a great way to look at OCD! In my Psychology class we're learning about Classical Conditioning and Operant Conditioning and I've been kind of making connections between that and OCD. For one thing, in ERP, there's extinction; when a fear/compulsion goes away completely. And in classical conditioning, extinction is when one stops experiencing the conditioned stimulus, and the conditioned response goes away. So I was thinking maybe OCD is like classical conditioning, because in classical conditioning an unconditioned stimulus produces an unconditioned response in a person. For example, if we're afraid of snakes, and we see a snake, we'll be afraid. Then if someone brings in neutral stimulus that we're not afraid of (such as ringing a bell when we see a snake), then we may associate the bell with the snake and be afraid when we hear the bell. That association with the bell becomes a conditioned stimulus and the fear would be a conditioned response. The more this happens, the more we learn to do this behavior (that's the operant conditioning). In OCD, we have obsessions (unconditioned stimulus) and we have the response of being afraid of them (unconditioned response). And we can associate things with that fear that will also make us afraid (conditioned stimulus) and have the conditioned response of being afraid. However, when we stop doing compulsions around that obsession, we experience extinction, just like with classical conditioning. We learn to be afraid of things, we respond with a compulsion, but when we stop the compulsions, we stop being afraid. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's been on my mind lately. Do you have any thoughts on this theory? I was thinking about making a video on it but I may be totally wrong so I might not lol. :)
Wait, I just looked this up! It's actually a thing. :o I did not know that lol. xD I'm glad I made that connection then.. I have a test next week and it should help me remember! Haha!
Thanks, Matt! As far as my story goes, is there a particular issue with recovery that you're curious about? When a story is just about having a mental illness, I call it "illness porn". I don't do illness porn so I keep the focus on recovery and tools that help build and maintain great mental health. But if there's something connected to getting over OCD that you feel would make more sense if I explained my back story, that's something I can incorporate into a video.
@@raulvasconcelos5572 But what? It's generally a huge compulsion people engage in to go hunting in other people's past experiences to compare and judge and chase reassurance. The healthy actions to get into shape aren't changed by something in the past.
This is such good information. I know I engage in a lot of mental compulsions and am sure there are a few I don't even realize I'm doing. When dealing with Pure O type of obsessions, how do you stop yourself from engaging in the mental compulsions? I feel so bad and just want relief.
What if my brain doesn't want me to do some of the thinss I like doing? I can recognize the difference between a compulsion and a pleasurable activity, even though some compulsions can feel good sometimes, but occasionally my brain makes me believe that the things I value, such as browsing the Internet, playing games and the things I love are bad for me, that I don't need them, that they're compulsions, that I need to cut them out, now I know better than to listen to him and do whatever I want to or have to do at the moment, but it's so hard not to!
Giving shitty presents to my brain is something i am (arent we all?) really good at.. For some reason ive missed this particular video.. really good one :)
Yep! I know youre busy but I have a question which has to do with the OCD support group i am "leading" in Helsinki. When anxious.. What is the best way to study and read/watch youtube tips?? Hard to describe but i quite often find myself doing this when anxious and the positive goal in a way turns into a compulsion of itself to relief pain by just temporarily doing it and then getting worse. Any good tips on that?
Anyone here suffered from not being able to concentrate on work or hobbies you used to love because of OCD? During lockdown, it's getting worse for me and although I never cry, I'm starting to break down. I don't want to go the medication route since the side effects are terrible but I'm still sticking with the "do not seek reassurance" mantra as long as I can. Whenever I seek reassurance, it's very short term relief and it opens up more can of worms and more stress. Also, by seeking reassurance from someone, you are at the mercy of their mood and they will know over time that it messes with you when you don't get reassured and torture you by withholding information. So it's better to live with uncertainty. Even loved ones get very annoyed and can do more harm than good.
Sorry to hear about the struggles! It sounds like you already know about seeking reassurance, but checking if people are struggling to concentrate on work or hobbies is also an example of checking for reassurance. I found it really helpful to see that the brain just naturally throws up whatever will get us to chase certainty and control. So if it's a distraction during work that brings up that urge to check and control, then that's what comes up. It's very common for people to work on exercises to cut out compulsions while doing hobbies or work. A big support with that can be bringing back power to ourselves. There is just me when I sit down to work or do some hobby. I will experience things while I work--sounds, people walking by, my neighbours making noise, construction out in the street, thoughts, physical discomforts, etc. It is not OCD that makes me chase any of those experiences. I can bring power back to me. In that moment, I can have an experience and choose to give my attention to the work I'm doing. That's the exercise. It's like lifting weights. I build the skill to focus and pay attention by choosing to notice the unwanted or uncomfortable experience but, instead of reacting to it, choosing to do the things I value.
@@everybodyhasabrain thanks Mark. I'll keep at it and not react to the thoughts or give it too much meaning. I really want to avoid medication since it has adverse side effects. My OCD is about precisely remembering all conversations with my loved ones, otherwise my brain twists when I can't remember and the missing portion my OCD fills with very taboo stuff. I used to take very extensive notes and carry a notepad with me at all times. Now, I ask others around me what they said precisely so they can reassure me they didn't say anything bad. It's really pushing these loved ones away from me and seeking reassurance from them is making them annoyed which in turn spikes my OCD since nothing they say seems to douse the fire of this OCD. Any advise on how I can handle this particular situation?
The previous comment I made was about checking and reassurance compulsions. It was about these compulsions. It's useful to cut them out. If you read my previous response and believed it didn't apply to this situation, I would take a step back and consider why that is. You may discover some other compulsions that it could be useful to tackle.
@@everybodyhasabrain I feel I agree that me checking with others on what they said is a form of reassurance seeking and usually it leads to more complications. I've tried postponing the reassurance seeking few days ahead and it really helps and usually I don't need to seek reassurance after few days. I try to sit with the anxiety and get to get used to living with uncertainty so I can get acclimatised but during that time the quality of my life is very zombie like and I'm not very engaged in what I'm doing. I try to tell myself that I don't care whatever the worst case scenario is I can deal with it and remind myself that asking others would only turn them against me since people I'm around don't understand mental health issues.
Hi Mark, thanks for the tips! I am currently having a hard time of trying to stop my compulsions, which is to ruminate and recollect whether I've harmed somebody at a place where I'd been. It's like an addiction and what I am suffering now is the withdrawal symptoms of not doing the compulsions. I guess that's normal?
Like I've mentioned in previous comments, OCD is always more than one symptom. Asking this question is a common OCD symptom. It can really help to look beyond the compulsions that might be bothering you. OCD is very much about trying to avoid experiences we don't like. That experience could be a thought about harming somebody or it could be whatever withdrawal symptoms you're experiencing now. Those are the same. It helped me to recognize that seeking reassurance for one is no different than seeking reassurance for the other.
Mark, This is old but it popped up in my watch later feed. I've realized I'm an expert at addict math. Something I want to work on. My therapist is great... He is helping me, and he actually had OCD himself, and takes a recovery not managing based approach. However, how do I get out of this idea that.. "He's going to make it all go away".. "why aren't the thoughts getting better or going away?". I'm really struggling with that.
JohnNash82 I can feel unhappy or sad, just like I can feel anxiety. Trying not to feel things or trying to control feelings is a big part of mental illness. But I don't experience what classifies as depression. Recovery has helped me see depression as a series of actions. I could choose to experience depression again, but I would have to engage in the actions that would lead me there. Just like I could experience OCD again, but I would have to start engaging in the actions that would bring that back into my life.
I am doing well still in my recovery from OCD, but recently (most likely due to stress of exams next week) I noticed my intrusive thoughts pop up and caused me more anxiety than they had done for a long time. Despite this, I didn't engage in compulsions and allowed the anxiety to be there and the doubt and carried on with my studying. Afterwards though, my brain kept throwing these judgements at me saying "You don't deserve love or to be liked because of those thoughts you just had". It can be quite hard to battle them because it is like an engrained feeling I get from them that feels like I don't deserve to be liked because of them. I notice those negative thoughts to myself usually strike when I am happy as well, should I stick with my mindfulness techniques to battle them or is there anything else I can do? I am trying to argue back to them and convince myself it is all OCD just making me feel it and it does work but sometimes it is harder than other times.
That's great you didn't engage in compulsions and carried on with studying! This is actually a really useful experience to have and the insight that it's connected to the stress from exams makes lots of sense to me. For myself, I noticed after I'd gotten rid of all of my compulsions, that every now and then, when things were really busy at work or I was leaving the apartment to go to and give a big presentation, the thought would pop into my head that the stove was on. Even if I hadn't used the stove that morning, the thought would appear. Fears around leaving the stove on were probably some of the fears I'd had the longest. And it seems that because I practiced getting stressed about those thoughts for so many years, and then getting relief from that stress by checking the stove, that when my brain is stressed now, it wants to check the stove. It wants to chase relief from the stress so it turns to the thing that it knows best even though that has no connection to whatever I am stressed about. So I don't get bothered by it. I see it as really helpful. It's like a big banner telling me that there's something stressing me out and I should deal with that. My brain only knows how to communicate that by being afraid of fire. When it happens, I handle it by thanking my brain for pointing out that there's some stress in my life that I need to deal with. And then I deal with whatever I'm doing that's leading to the stress (like procrastinating, or taking on too many projects, not taking care of my health, not sharing my workload, etc). I don't try to convince myself it's not OCD. I just recognize that it means there are some healthy things I need to be doing in other areas of my life that I might be neglecting. You might notice something similar, where certain intrusive thoughts are just your brain's way of reacting to other stresses in your life. That's helped me to identify areas where I can make changes so I can enjoy my work more and be more effective at it. I hope you can find this to be a useful tool, too!
You know what I found ? Whenever I see people dear to me doing specific things without engaging in a washing compulsion, the urge for me to engage in that desire TOTALLY vanishes. And I will never ever again have an urge to engage in that compulsion again. On the other hand, if that person is a person I dislike, it will have no effect and I will still have the urge. When I first observed this I felt like something alien was steering the wheel of my brain. It's amazingly bizarre. But now I kind of understand the logic behind it... I think it's all abouot associating with people I like and dissociating from people I dislike.
Hi Mark, great video, but I'm having trouble reconciling the notion of "changing the systems" with unhealthy avoidance coping. How would one go about differentiating the two and/or what would you identify as the distinguishing factor?
This can be tricky. I'll give you two examples that were helpful for me to understand this. In my internet addiction course, I mention that if people want to put some kind of blocker/firewall on their phone or computer during the first week to help them, that could be useful, but the next week, they need to start practicing being at the computer with that blocking software turned off for progressively increasing amounts of time. That's the only way they're going to build up the skills and abilities to make choices online they're happy about. Sometimes, we just don't have the skills yet to do something but I only ever suggest avoiding something if there's a very specific plan for not avoiding it very, very soon. It's a bit like swimming and drowning. If you don't know how to swim, you'll drown. But if I want you to swim, I can't just keep forcing you into the water and telling you not to avoid it. Supports need to be in place so you can learn how to swim. But to learn how to swim, you're still going to need to get into the water, but it might be shallow at first, and you might get to wear some inflatable water wings. :) The second example that I think is useful to understand has to do with behaviors that lead to compulsions but have no particular value in our lives. For example, turning on my computer the moment I walk in the door. It became very automatic. There wasn't any need for me to do it. I just did it. It didn't have any terrible or even mildly negative consequences. But it was still a compulsion and it added no value to my life and it made it easier to get sucked into other compulsions later. It's valuable to learn how to be around a computer at any time and not engage in compulsions, but there was also no value to me continuing that compulsion. An added benefit of cutting that out meant it became more difficult to engage in other compulsions because I'd changed a key step in that compulsive system. Considering a differentiator or distinguishing factor for that system change, I'd say that it's about asking whether it brings any value to my life. Do I really need to be in a particular situation, or am I just putting myself in a seemingly "normal" situation because I know it'll actually make it much easier to accidentally fall back into compulsions later?
Awesome answer, Mark! That makes a lot of sense. Essentially, always turning the computer on was a seemingly harmless, yet unnecessary compulsion altogether that set you up for potentially worse, anxiety-inducing compulsions down the line. Constantly reflecting against your core values and the things you really want to be doing that you know are healthy seems to be the operative theme in every scenario. It's so comically obvious when spelled out like that but I guess it goes to show just how blinding addictions can be, especially when "the fix" is right in your head.
Yeah, it's amazing how easily we get stuck in these repetitive ruts, never questioning whether the things we're doing are actually things we want to spend our lives on or things that bring us any value. Have fun moving up and over this challenge!
+Mark Freeman Cheers! Your videos have been nothing short of revelatory for me, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that you've saved my life. You're doing really amazing work here and I couldn't wish better for you.
Hi Mark Freeman, iam a vietnamese, i had been a OCD man too for 4 years and i am very bad at English language Can you summarize your video, please? thank you for your help ^^ . i need your advice so bad 😪.😢
If you're looking for ways to cut them out, you've probably noticed that the "good" feeling is actually a lie. In my book, YOU ARE NOT A ROCK, I describe it as somebody that says they like jumping in the water but hate getting wet. If you hate the consequences of the compulsions, maybe they don't actually feel good.
Hello, again. When you start talking about compulsions as all these different types of coping mechanisms, I wonder to myself 'what isn't a compulsion anymore?--is there anything I like that isn't?' This worries me to no end. I think, 'Hey that good thing I was doing was good, but I absolutely hated it--so then, is it so good anymore?' I have voices telling me to be healthy, but I do not want to be healthy in the way I am being told--they say, 'Go outside for a walk', and I think 'I want to become more grounded, instead, rather than always having to go somewhere else'. I just get so upset [frustrated] and confused by the end of it all--what isn't a compulsion anymore? Is there no true form of exposure? To me, based on our animal nature--addiction is essentially anything that makes us feel good--so how can I live the life I want when I do not want to chase after having the most views, highest-peak of body performance, the greatest list of achievements?--I just want to be me in silence. It's so noisy.
Hey there WULD, this is a really good question about what is and isn't a compulsion, I would say have a thing about it, some of the things you mentioned I think you know deep down which behaviours are compulsions, It can be difficult to figure out at first because it's almost like your brain or your self is trying to convince itself that the behaviours are okay, that's okay and that dichotomy of thinking about quitting something but doing it anyway because of the immediate relief is normal. I think it kind of comes down to a subjective feeling of what is and isn't productive. A professional artist spending hours every day drawing is, surfing the web for porn for hours a day isn't, reading about a subject that interests you for hours is but chasing the perfectionist goals you mentioned isn't. Ask yourself if what you are doing is healthy to you. don't self justify like a smoker saying i'll quit right after this last one!.
Funny after following you for years I always thought that you preach cutting out compulsions must be done by will. I don‘t know why I believed it but I thought I can’t beat anxiety if I can‘t just not do the compulsion by will. Which is wrong on so many levels. I remember hearing you say „change the systems“ but I thought it‘s more like political 😂. I only understand what you mean after failing million times and now seeing this video. I rejected other classic therapy strategies because of this. I am glad I am over this narrow mindset
Where is the video where you talk about that seeking full certainty is counterproductive, because when one solves a thought, the brain just creates a bigger uncertainty and so on and so on?
I'm not sure what specific video that would be in. I imagine I've mentioned that or referred to it many. It's just a fact. It sounds like you already know that fact.
If your issues resolve around things you can't avoid, like showering or going to bathroom. How do you work on stopping compulsion like rinsing/ washing over and over and using lots of toilet paper?
When I was working on compulsions like that I had to cut them out. There's no magic to it. You commit to how you're going to do and then when you feel the urge to keep going or do more, you don't!
I have rocd and I use to practice ACT and I felt good but I acted on a compulsion and I spiralled down as I couldn't see my girlfriend for 2 days and I got anxious. Then I did ERP and I got a lot of anxiety but things didn't go as well as I did ACT. I found myself spending a lot of my time with my girlfriend and that lowered my anxiety and made it go away at times. Is spending time with my girlfriend a compulsion ? I ruminate at times and I know that's a compulsion. I also cut out a lot of compulsions however I don't know my compulsions right now. Sometimes I feel angry and want to lash out - does that come with OCD ? I won't be seeing my girlfriend for a week straight and I've been dreading this week as I know I'll get anxiety - having OCD makes me not feel like I miss her and my thoughts say that I don't miss her and that I've lost feelings. Is being alone for a week doing ERP ?
Like I mentioned in the previous comment, I'd recommend getting a workbook to follow. There are tons of great books on ACT, too. Practicing ACT would involve accepting anxiety but you make it sound like experiencing anxiety is a bad thing to avoid. So it could help to follow a guide with this. Something like Steven Hayes' "Get out of your mind and into your life" might be useful.
Mark Freeman thank you for the recommendations I will definitely give them a read. I know it get a little annoying if I ask the same questions but I do not know my own compulsions as I've just recently developed OCD. Is spending all my Time with my girlfriend a compulsion ? I got less intrusive thoughts and anxious reactions when I spent less time with her - and now that I can't see her my anxiety is popping back. Reassuring myself as in telling my SO the reasons I love her and that we'll get through this journey together a compulsion ?
What if the compulsions are thoughts? It's easier to stop yourself from doing an action than it is to stop thoughts. As an extreme example, you could lock yourself up in a room without any alcohol and throw the key away, but with thoughts it's like you have the alcohol or drug in your brain and system already 24/7
Make sure you're also tackling physical / external compulsions like posting the same question under multiple videos. Something I see often is people insisting they only have mental compulsions, while they're actively doing lots of physical compulsions but they like the physical compulsions or see them as necessary.
What if you make a compulsion out of trying to preform healthy things? Like you're always trying to do the healthy things? Like if I am sitting at a lab with someone and I see them I think, "oh I must engage with them!" Then I start talking to them but it's only really for the compulsion. Also when I'm in my house and I feel the need to talk to my parents to get over my social anxiety. I talk to them but as a way to be certain. Then my mind keeps saying "talk to themmmm" should I then not talk to them for a while? Then even if I don't carry the thought compulsion I still don't know when to go and talk to them in my house but I do it anyways but I'm always trying to be certain when I should talk to people to get over my social anxiety. Also when I'm in the car and my brain is like talk talk talk. But I do kinda have to talk to my parents either way- but how in a healthy way?
And I know answering that question doesn't help either but should I just stop trying to be certain for a while till the obsession goes away and then again try again to build a relationship?
+Sean Vasquez I mean I know you're always suppose to be uncertain but I don't know how to talk to them through "uncertainty" if that makes sense. I accept the thoughts and talk to them anyways but It's still this cycle of when do I talk
+Sean Vasquez That's a very common compulsion. OCD's clever way of trying to hang on is to turn recovery into a compulsion. That's why it's so important to make the switch to not doing everything in reaction to getting over a problem but to simply put your time and energy into the things you care about because those are part of the life you want to create. If you only do things to avoid something, then your brain will always worry about the thing you want to avoid, even if the things you're doing are "healthy". It helped me to recognize that reacting to an urge not to do something is the same as reacting to the urge to do something. In both situations, I'm putting those random urges and feelings in charge of my life. But that had disastrous consequences.
this is where im at now: dealing with my recovery which has become an obsession. everything i do thats positive is controlled by urges to be perfect and get it right . but it feels forced and fake so i end up feeling more stressed. your comment helped me further clarify that this isnt the right way for me to go about recovery. you're right when you say having an urge to do something positive is just as bad as having the urge to take part in a compulsion. my new ultimate goal is to become urge free...and for someone has lived with every type of ocd under the sun, i can tell u its not about the thought content, its the habit. ive gotten over specific fears but not my obsessive and compulsive behavior. thanks Mark! !
It's hard to make changes to your system or environment if you have checking OCD though - I have to lock my door...I can't avoid doing it, obviously. So how would I deal with that?
The first compulsion I had to cut out when I was doing therapy was my door checking compulsion. If it's not clear how to do that, working with a skilled professional could be a great way to learn how to get started on cutting out compulsions.
@@everybodyhasabrain Well, when that doubt creeps in my brain telling me I need to go back and check, I'm trying to be very aware that it's OCD and that I really don't need to go back. Like, it's not an actual fact. However, when my OCD gets really bad, I can sometimes literally be pushing on the door to make sure it's locked but the message just doesn't get through to my brain...it's like there's a disconnect or something. That only happens very rarely, when I'm stressed in other areas of my life. Your videos have been helping so much though, thank you.
Yeah, I found it most useful to work on accepting that I hadn't locked it and could handle the outcomes of that. It was those outcomes I was actually afraid of. If we just reassure ourselves that we did lock it, that's only confirming to the brain that we should be scared of not locking it and can't handle the outcomes that will result from that. But I can show my brain it can trust me to handle those.
@@everybodyhasabrain oh damn! I keep reading all the time. The fear, sensations and disgust around my thoughts has gone down tremendously and I keep googling why that is even though my therapist has told me not to! Now I understand!
@@sweetlimesoda98 the checking online and checking the feelings is the same. It naturally makes you feel the feelings aren't "right" or enough because... then you have to check more and keep the addiction going. The most recent video on my channel is about this, too: ua-cam.com/video/C_o8U6F53dY/v-deo.html
RE: "Stopping compulsions further up stream" I know you didn't mean it like this, but isn't this in some respects, avoidance? If you know something is going to cause you to obsess and perform compulsions, and you instead choose not to even start doing something because of that, it's a form of avoidance, yes? I get what you mean though, about not feeding your environment into avenues that'll only lead to compulsions and to "mix things up" a little, add randomness and changes. Just felt I'd better mention the warning bell of avoidance as that's a route I would rather have not started years ago if I'd realised it then :(
It's like Lea said, it's often only a tool at the beginning. Although there are also situations where it might be permanent and it's not avoidance because those old unhealthy compulsions/situations just don't align with your values and where you want to go in life. I like to keep the focus on the healthy life I'm building.
I have found your videos very helpful. This one however, I have found perplexing. I know you remain vague for a reason, but I believe that doing so in this particular video can be greatly misleading. I have never once considered my compulsions as pleasurable in any way. Let's say I have a fear of a disease I had in my past of reoccurring and that leads to a ritual of some sort, say, turn on and off the light 100 times for 10 times throughout the night. This is annoying at best, and, I am consciously fully aware that the disease I fear won't be affected at all by this. It does not ease my anxiety, It only eases the extra OCD anxiety. In another instance. As someone who is naturally scientific and problem solving, I am driven to discover the truth and to be aware of things in a way that is reasonable, well balanced and that can be robust to reasonable doubt given evidence. In some cases the worst case scenario must be assumed and overcome to prevent a disastrous result in some new technology or system etc. In daily life this can be problematic as you might know. My OCD usually is of the type of acquiring certainty over a feared situation, and since I am exceptionally good at finding both positives and negatives, this almost always leads to mind-breaking levels of anxiety and panic attacks, which can cause major disruptions in my daily functioning if left unchecked. That's why I have learned to use ACT, ERP and mental restructuring to keep my mind healthy and objective. Considering compulsions as addictions is something that really confused me here as it is making me think that "I am doing these things to gain a fix" when in the overwhelming number of cases, doing it will cause an anxiety spike at best, and a full blown mental breakdown at worst. Moreover, how do you differentiate this type of 'avoidance of environment' from OCD actually creating compulsions to avoid? Let's stay I have a perceived fear that my favourite thing in the world, say, my job, is actually bad for me, and must be avoided at all costs, or say my favourite movie, or my favourite game, or my favourite photo etc. This can easily become a slippery slope. At some point you need to learn what is reasonable and what is not. Say, fearing that going back to your family home will trigger your OCD, something you know for sure, might lead one to think that avoiding that place is a good way to remain healthy. However, the only way forward is to go there, sit with the anxiety, challenge your thoughts or simply let them pass without judgement until your mind reforms itself. You can create opportunities for good memories of good behaviours and habits in that place of old discomfort to help the process. Where do compulsions begin and where do I begin? I find overgeneralizing videos of this type really confusing. I also understand the other video you made about all thoughts being 'farts' as meaning to describe cognitive defusion, but in reality it can also lead one astray, not paying attention to the good thoughts either. Whereas in reality it should all be about the usefulness of the thoughts, which, again, is a notion formed from experience and personal insight. I love your videos, but I just wanted to let you know that some people like myself, were actually thrown off by this video, and I actually began obsessing that every thought or idea for action I have might be a form of me seeing a 'fix', when in reality, it's just my brain trying to protect me and giving me a compulsion. Like, should I go check whether my experiment earlier had a bug in it if I suspect that might be the case? I would definitely believe so, and it would probably be a good idea, unless I am doing it thousands of times when I clearly know that all is well with the world, or if the thought follows a known OCD theme that I know about myself. Knowing which wave to ride, i.e. useful thoughts, and which to let pass, i.e. not useful thought, is a better way to think of this I believe. Not all waves are surfable, and some might even be dangerous and useless to even attempt to. One needs to know whether their certainty-seeking has reached an unhealthy level or not. Not doing any certainty-seeking means that you are probably doomed to fail at everything and doing a ton means that you will never be able to do anything in life.
@@everybodyhasabrain Can you help me understand? I am quite confused about which parts you disagree on, and why. I am just trying to understand here. I became confused by some of the vagueness in the video and I am trying to understand.
@@everybodyhasabrain Let me also just add that I consider you a role model for OCD fighting to a good extent, and as such, receiving a vague I disagree on multiple points I made, is really causing me distress here. Could we have a discussion here, so we can solve the misunderstanding? I just want to apply the right things to my routine.
It helped me to see that OCD was just an extension of a logic I taught my brain throughout my life. It's like teaching the brain a piece of code. So the amount of time that went into writing the first comment is an example of the seemingly "normal" stuff we do that tells the brain: "If we encounter some uncertainty or something that feels wrong, we've got to figure it out and fit it into a certain box." For getting over mental illness struggles, it helped me to see I had to learn new codes throughout life, with uncertainty. If I practice compulsions around uncertainties that don't distress me, how can I not practice them around topics that do?
@@everybodyhasabrain I understand what you are trying to say here. I was more specifically trying to communicate that in my experience, many OCD compulsions are not 'pleasurable' in any way. In my case they usually appear as a form of prevention from doing things I actually love to do and want to do, such as my favourite games, activities and my work, which I adore. Or even hanging out with my best friends, or liking my favourite people in the world etc. In its attempt to provide 'security' it comes up with this royal pains in the ass basically. ERP is the best way to treat those types. However, yes, I also had reassurance-seeking compulsions of mental gymnastics trying to prove definitively that something is OK, and those are slippery slopes, like a drug in the short term but utterly destructive in the longer term. Uncertainty is always part of the game, and the moment I accepted that and agreed that the fearful thought might be true, but I'll do what I believe is right anyway, they began to disappear, slowly yet surely. Now. I don't know if you had the displeasure of experiencing depression, OCD, and dissociation-inducing panic attacks at the same time ever in your life, but that's what's been going on with me in the past few months. My mind tends to over-generalize me being wrong on one thing with being wrong about everything in life, which I am working on, hence why I became distressed earlier and tried my utmost best to express my concerns and receive your feedback. One of those concerns was about 'avoiding' vs 'changing the system'. I have been in situations were noticing that I get more compulsions at specific environments, lead to avoiding them, which improved my mental health and overall performance, but meant that I had increasingly more fear towards perceived 'environment subconscious effects'. I think the best way forward in those situations is to gauge the risks and rewards and if deemed useful, to expose the self in the environment where compulsions increase and overtime to overwrite those with new memories. Another concern is about making sure that we don't end up becoming reckless by overindulging ourselves on 'not checking' and embracing the 'uncertainty' type behaviours which can be both freeing in the right context of 'spam' OCD thoughts, but also a bad idea if the thoughts themselves and the associated 'proposed' actions are of use, i.e. checking once before bed if I turned off all the lights to ensure I am not wasting energy. This is reasonable, and in no way enters the exaggerated OCD territory. I guess my overall point is that balance is key in everything in life, including how one approaches OCD therapy.
What do you mean really when you say cutting out all the compulsions and patterns? I have intrusive thoughts that are causing pain, and also some symmetry and door-checking patterns, but those doesn't bother me as much as the violent intrusive thoughts. So, my point is, should I mess up my room (as an exposure to my symmetry-addiction) in order to get progress with the violent thoughts? Thx so much for these videos!
Personally, I define a compulsion as anything I do to cope with, check on, or control uncertainty, anxiety, and other feelings I don't like. So that led to me changing much more than just the things that seemed like OCD compulsions. In general, I think it helps to start with the things that bother you less. They're usually easier to cut out first, which helps learn the skills involved in eliminating compulsions, which makes it easier to cut out the more troubling ones.
I'm a recovered alcoholic. Beneath the symptom of alcoholism is the same problem as ocd. Go to an AA meeting and you'll hear OCD, Bipolar, manic depression etc etc. Its all the same crap down at the core of the problem. You are talking about compartmentalism, thats a trap where the symptoms are left free to morph into a new symptoms because the root cause is never honestly dealt with. For myself, its dangerous to try and intellectualize my way out of obsessive behavior, the malady cannot be fooled. Whatever knowledge I gain, the illness also knows ( I'm implying its sentient and it is).
Meebo Meebo It can help not to get caught up in themes. It's normal to get stuck on something if you think OCD has themes because then you miss all of the other compulsions feeding into the one bothering you.
Try looking at it like this: That "theme" you dislike is similar to pain. Let's say a were a runner and you started to experience pain in your knees when you were running. You might go to a doctor for help with the pain but the doctor is going to look at what's causing the pain. And if you're experiencing pain while running, you'll probably need to change how you're running. It might have been the way you've always run but now you see the results of that practice you've always engaged in. So even though it's the pain that bothers you, what actually needs to change is how you run. That old way of running is like the compulsions we engage in that seem "normal" or necessary to us. We can't get rid of the obsession if we keep engaging in those compulsions, just like the runner will always struggle with the pain if they don't change how they're running. They can keep going around trying to find people to tell them how to relieve the pain. They can tell people that they could just move on with life if only they could get rid of that knee pain. But the pain is not the problem. It's only a symptom of the problem.
Really really great video. Every time I think I understand my ocd and anxiety, something new pops up and I see things differently. I'm newly diagnosed and keep wondering what's what. My tendency to obsessively research and fact find feels like it's jamming my capability to understand what's going on with me. Like there's a really important meeting I haven't been invited to in my own head lol x
That's a great way to describe it! I love skipping meetings to get work done and this is probably a meeting you can skip, too. It can seem like we need to understand OCD but I find it more helpful to shift the focus to the healthy things we want to do in life. Trying to be certain about OCD can become a trap full of compulsions. When I feel an urge to chase ayer some uncertainty, I accept that urge and then bring my focus to a healthy action I can do right now.
You're so right!! My 'need' to know everything, the hope to annihilate anything taking me by surprise, is an infinite rabbit hole without adding OCD on top. Thank you x
Yep! I know youre busy but I have a question which has to do with the OCD support group i am "leading" in Helsinki. When anxious.. What is the best way to study and read/watch youtube tips?? Hard to describe but i quite often find myself doing this when anxious and the positive goal in a way turns into a compulsion of itself to relief pain by just temporarily doing it and then getting worse. Any good tips on that?
That's great you've got a support group going! In general, going online to find ways to get rid of anxiety when you're anxious is going to become a compulsion. Compulsions are all about trying to do things to get rid of feelings we don't like. So when somebody feels anxious, that can be a great opportunity to do something they value. OCD has already received enough of their time and energy. To help with that, it can be useful to have something to do already lined up. For example, when I was cutting out a bunch of intense compulsions, I bought some new books that I wanted to read. So when I would feel the intense anxiety and urges, instead of engaging in compulsions, I would practice reading. Reading was something I enjoyed but I always told myself I didn't have time (although I clearly had lots of time for compulsions). Enjoying the reading was very difficult because my brain kept trying to think about the anxiety and compulsions. But that's ok if it's difficult. Cutting out compulsions is an exercise and anxiety is like brain sweat. We have to make our brains sweaty with anxiety while we do things we care about if we want them to stop acting this way.
Thank you for your thorough answer :) This is in a way something I already know but getting easily lured back to. But your example is a good one. For example I love movies and OCD loves telling me that "you are wasting your time with this nonsense.. stop it"... it even throws "odd feelings into favorite movies ive seen so many times". Movies also train me to feel things (which my disorder doesnt) so in a way that is something I deeply value and will continue doing. Singing would be a skill that would be another thing i would like to do. The whole supportgroup is really awesome... while i still notice controlling/coping here as well. Basically the fear of not beeing "good enough" to help others. Which I know through my values is false. Thanks alot Mark. :)
Compulsions are very addictive, they make you feel great in the short term but only further your dysfunction in the long term
@@Kristijan-Kiko Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Yeah and they’re mostly unconscious behaviors that accumulate over time.
As far as brain mechanisms go, anxiety disorders are basically all the same, which is why your comparison of alcoholism and OCD works so well.
I tried to explain this to my psychologist and he dismissed it out of hand. I don't see him anymore.
Maybe thats because he just wanted u on a bunch of pills
That's probably a good thing.
In my experience this idea holds up. I moved out from home and went to university and over my four years there I have really made progress in breaking away from obsessing habits and seeing the true flimsy nature of them as thoughts, yet whenever I go home (where I was truly obsessive and miserable for years) I almost always start to sink back into obsessive habits. It's like when a heroin addict returns to the environment in which he used to shoot up, he starts getting strong withdrawal symptoms, because the environment has become a trigger. Very interesting point that could make for some interesting research.
During my ocd recovery i discovered lately that sitting with anxiety discomfort and embarrassing it feelings , is better than all the compilations i have been doing for sooo long , thank you for the awareness you give us about ocd ❤
It is a wonderful discovery. It really is much easier and more enjoyable to sit with difficult feelings than practice all of the compulsions. Enjoy continuing the exploration!
loving the new videos man, it's really helping with the obsessions/
Really really great video. Every time I think I understand my ocd and anxiety, something new pops up and I see things differently. I'm newly diagnosed and keep wondering what's what. My tendency to obsessively research and fact find feels like it's jamming my capability to understand what's going on with me....like there's a really important meeting I haven't been invited to in my own head lol x
We Hate The Same Things that's very common - OCD is a system that always tries to pull us in, one way or the other. It will make it sound reasonable, important, etc. for you to engage with it.
Thank YOU I needed this right now. My OCD is mostly about feelings that I don't understand like what seeing particular images makes me feel. I get uncertain and try convincing myself that I understand but I keep getting another OCD that these are rational uncertainties and need answers.
Awesome inspirational channel... thank you for sharing your experiences and learning!
Thanks man God bless you, your videos have helped me during recovery and now during a bit of a relapse, thanks
Hittin it right on the nail Mark!
Thank you a lot
:)
Great job Mark!!!
You are so deep understanding legend man
this is so informative noted every point working on it from now on.
thanks mark.
Happy exploring and changing!
They are all parallel for sure!!!!! OCD/addiction/anxiety/depression. I already had anxiety and depression but my adderall (I dont ADHD, so abusing) addiction for 12 years has been a major cause my OCD. And also caused me to ruminate negative thoughts over and over.
I tend to think addiction/behavioral patterns are a spectrum personally. It flares up in times of stress for all of us. Its an unconscious process for the most part. It’s about how we choose to spend our time and energy I think. We become conscious of our behaviors and patterns and then we can finally work on changing them. Thank you dude!
really amazing stuff as always. Beyond anything I've heard in my 40 plus years. I never thought about that little dopamine hit we get when we VERY temporarily find relief by engaging in a compulsion.
Thanks!
Fantastic video bro, thanks for this. Been watching a lot of your videos recently and trying to apply these methods to my own experience - thanks for the help man.
You're welcome, Eddie. Have fun putting these practices into action!
Thanks :)
great video!
Yay, regular new videos :)
great video
That's such a great way to look at OCD!
In my Psychology class we're learning about Classical Conditioning and Operant Conditioning and I've been kind of making connections between that and OCD. For one thing, in ERP, there's extinction; when a fear/compulsion goes away completely. And in classical conditioning, extinction is when one stops experiencing the conditioned stimulus, and the conditioned response goes away. So I was thinking maybe OCD is like classical conditioning, because in classical conditioning an unconditioned stimulus produces an unconditioned response in a person. For example, if we're afraid of snakes, and we see a snake, we'll be afraid. Then if someone brings in neutral stimulus that we're not afraid of (such as ringing a bell when we see a snake), then we may associate the bell with the snake and be afraid when we hear the bell. That association with the bell becomes a conditioned stimulus and the fear would be a conditioned response. The more this happens, the more we learn to do this behavior (that's the operant conditioning).
In OCD, we have obsessions (unconditioned stimulus) and we have the response of being afraid of them (unconditioned response). And we can associate things with that fear that will also make us afraid (conditioned stimulus) and have the conditioned response of being afraid. However, when we stop doing compulsions around that obsession, we experience extinction, just like with classical conditioning. We learn to be afraid of things, we respond with a compulsion, but when we stop the compulsions, we stop being afraid.
I don't know if that makes sense, but it's been on my mind lately. Do you have any thoughts on this theory? I was thinking about making a video on it but I may be totally wrong so I might not lol. :)
Wait, I just looked this up! It's actually a thing. :o I did not know that lol. xD I'm glad I made that connection then.. I have a test next week and it should help me remember! Haha!
ShalomAlechim Great connection! Good luck on the test!
Your video's are just great thank u so much.
Thank you!
Thanks again!
the 'i saw an ugly cloud today' thought xD brilliant and accurate.
Great info as usual, Mark! Would love to see a video where you talk a little bit about your story and struggle with OCD
Thanks, Matt! As far as my story goes, is there a particular issue with recovery that you're curious about? When a story is just about having a mental illness, I call it "illness porn". I don't do illness porn so I keep the focus on recovery and tools that help build and maintain great mental health. But if there's something connected to getting over OCD that you feel would make more sense if I explained my back story, that's something I can incorporate into a video.
@@raulvasconcelos5572 But what? It's generally a huge compulsion people engage in to go hunting in other people's past experiences to compare and judge and chase reassurance. The healthy actions to get into shape aren't changed by something in the past.
@@raulvasconcelos5572 All of these videos are about those tools.
This is such good information. I know I engage in a lot of mental compulsions and am sure there are a few I don't even realize I'm doing. When dealing with Pure O type of obsessions, how do you stop yourself from engaging in the mental compulsions? I feel so bad and just want relief.
Hey Mark, you're awesome man. You probably don't need to hear this, but really wanted to say it.
That is very kind of you. I appreciate :)
Thanks!
What if my brain doesn't want me to do some of the thinss I like doing? I can recognize the difference between a compulsion and a pleasurable activity, even though some compulsions can feel good sometimes, but occasionally my brain makes me believe that the things I value, such as browsing the Internet, playing games and the things I love are bad for me, that I don't need them, that they're compulsions, that I need to cut them out, now I know better than to listen to him and do whatever I want to or have to do at the moment, but it's so hard not to!
Giving shitty presents to my brain is something i am (arent we all?) really good at.. For some reason ive missed this particular video.. really good one :)
Thanks, Jonas! Brains love regifting!
Yep!
I know youre busy but I have a question which has to do with the OCD support group i am "leading" in Helsinki.
When anxious.. What is the best way to study and read/watch youtube tips??
Hard to describe but i quite often find myself doing this when anxious and the positive goal in a way turns into a compulsion of itself to relief pain by just temporarily doing it and then getting worse.
Any good tips on that?
Anyone here suffered from not being able to concentrate on work or hobbies you used to love because of OCD? During lockdown, it's getting worse for me and although I never cry, I'm starting to break down. I don't want to go the medication route since the side effects are terrible but I'm still sticking with the "do not seek reassurance" mantra as long as I can. Whenever I seek reassurance, it's very short term relief and it opens up more can of worms and more stress. Also, by seeking reassurance from someone, you are at the mercy of their mood and they will know over time that it messes with you when you don't get reassured and torture you by withholding information. So it's better to live with uncertainty. Even loved ones get very annoyed and can do more harm than good.
Sorry to hear about the struggles! It sounds like you already know about seeking reassurance, but checking if people are struggling to concentrate on work or hobbies is also an example of checking for reassurance. I found it really helpful to see that the brain just naturally throws up whatever will get us to chase certainty and control. So if it's a distraction during work that brings up that urge to check and control, then that's what comes up. It's very common for people to work on exercises to cut out compulsions while doing hobbies or work. A big support with that can be bringing back power to ourselves. There is just me when I sit down to work or do some hobby. I will experience things while I work--sounds, people walking by, my neighbours making noise, construction out in the street, thoughts, physical discomforts, etc. It is not OCD that makes me chase any of those experiences. I can bring power back to me. In that moment, I can have an experience and choose to give my attention to the work I'm doing. That's the exercise. It's like lifting weights. I build the skill to focus and pay attention by choosing to notice the unwanted or uncomfortable experience but, instead of reacting to it, choosing to do the things I value.
@@everybodyhasabrain thanks Mark. I'll keep at it and not react to the thoughts or give it too much meaning. I really want to avoid medication since it has adverse side effects. My OCD is about precisely remembering all conversations with my loved ones, otherwise my brain twists when I can't remember and the missing portion my OCD fills with very taboo stuff. I used to take very extensive notes and carry a notepad with me at all times. Now, I ask others around me what they said precisely so they can reassure me they didn't say anything bad. It's really pushing these loved ones away from me and seeking reassurance from them is making them annoyed which in turn spikes my OCD since nothing they say seems to douse the fire of this OCD. Any advise on how I can handle this particular situation?
The previous comment I made was about checking and reassurance compulsions. It was about these compulsions. It's useful to cut them out. If you read my previous response and believed it didn't apply to this situation, I would take a step back and consider why that is. You may discover some other compulsions that it could be useful to tackle.
@@everybodyhasabrain I feel I agree that me checking with others on what they said is a form of reassurance seeking and usually it leads to more complications. I've tried postponing the reassurance seeking few days ahead and it really helps and usually I don't need to seek reassurance after few days. I try to sit with the anxiety and get to get used to living with uncertainty so I can get acclimatised but during that time the quality of my life is very zombie like and I'm not very engaged in what I'm doing. I try to tell myself that I don't care whatever the worst case scenario is I can deal with it and remind myself that asking others would only turn them against me since people I'm around don't understand mental health issues.
Hi Mark, thanks for the tips! I am currently having a hard time of trying to stop my compulsions, which is to ruminate and recollect whether I've harmed somebody at a place where I'd been. It's like an addiction and what I am suffering now is the withdrawal symptoms of not doing the compulsions. I guess that's normal?
Like I've mentioned in previous comments, OCD is always more than one symptom. Asking this question is a common OCD symptom. It can really help to look beyond the compulsions that might be bothering you. OCD is very much about trying to avoid experiences we don't like. That experience could be a thought about harming somebody or it could be whatever withdrawal symptoms you're experiencing now. Those are the same. It helped me to recognize that seeking reassurance for one is no different than seeking reassurance for the other.
Remember folks that perform mental compulsions, rumination is a compulsion. My whole perspective shifted after learning this.
Useful to remember!
hate it when it talks when your happy
Mark,
This is old but it popped up in my watch later feed. I've realized I'm an expert at addict math. Something I want to work on.
My therapist is great... He is helping me, and he actually had OCD himself, and takes a recovery not managing based approach. However, how do I get out of this idea that.. "He's going to make it all go away".. "why aren't the thoughts getting better or going away?". I'm really struggling with that.
Mark, don't you feel yourself depressed even now after recovery? And one more question: for how many years do you have OCD? Thank you!
JohnNash82 I can feel unhappy or sad, just like I can feel anxiety. Trying not to feel things or trying to control feelings is a big part of mental illness. But I don't experience what classifies as depression. Recovery has helped me see depression as a series of actions. I could choose to experience depression again, but I would have to engage in the actions that would lead me there. Just like I could experience OCD again, but I would have to start engaging in the actions that would bring that back into my life.
Yeah ocd is addictive I remember contestant times right when I would want them to stay my obsession but im recover from it it still addicting!!
+Brandi Rose how u recover ocd
I am doing well still in my recovery from OCD, but recently (most likely due to stress of exams next week) I noticed my intrusive thoughts pop up and caused me more anxiety than they had done for a long time. Despite this, I didn't engage in compulsions and allowed the anxiety to be there and the doubt and carried on with my studying. Afterwards though, my brain kept throwing these judgements at me saying "You don't deserve love or to be liked because of those thoughts you just had". It can be quite hard to battle them because it is like an engrained feeling I get from them that feels like I don't deserve to be liked because of them. I notice those negative thoughts to myself usually strike when I am happy as well, should I stick with my mindfulness techniques to battle them or is there anything else I can do? I am trying to argue back to them and convince myself it is all OCD just making me feel it and it does work but sometimes it is harder than other times.
That's great you didn't engage in compulsions and carried on with studying! This is actually a really useful experience to have and the insight that it's connected to the stress from exams makes lots of sense to me.
For myself, I noticed after I'd gotten rid of all of my compulsions, that every now and then, when things were really busy at work or I was leaving the apartment to go to and give a big presentation, the thought would pop into my head that the stove was on. Even if I hadn't used the stove that morning, the thought would appear. Fears around leaving the stove on were probably some of the fears I'd had the longest. And it seems that because I practiced getting stressed about those thoughts for so many years, and then getting relief from that stress by checking the stove, that when my brain is stressed now, it wants to check the stove. It wants to chase relief from the stress so it turns to the thing that it knows best even though that has no connection to whatever I am stressed about. So I don't get bothered by it. I see it as really helpful. It's like a big banner telling me that there's something stressing me out and I should deal with that. My brain only knows how to communicate that by being afraid of fire.
When it happens, I handle it by thanking my brain for pointing out that there's some stress in my life that I need to deal with. And then I deal with whatever I'm doing that's leading to the stress (like procrastinating, or taking on too many projects, not taking care of my health, not sharing my workload, etc). I don't try to convince myself it's not OCD. I just recognize that it means there are some healthy things I need to be doing in other areas of my life that I might be neglecting. You might notice something similar, where certain intrusive thoughts are just your brain's way of reacting to other stresses in your life. That's helped me to identify areas where I can make changes so I can enjoy my work more and be more effective at it. I hope you can find this to be a useful tool, too!
Great
Hi,
How can I look at patterns, like behavioral patterns, and dig under..
Without it turning compulsive?
You know what I found ? Whenever I see people dear to me doing specific things without engaging in a washing compulsion, the urge for me to engage in that desire TOTALLY vanishes. And I will never ever again have an urge to engage in that compulsion again. On the other hand, if that person is a person I dislike, it will have no effect and I will still have the urge.
When I first observed this I felt like something alien was steering the wheel of my brain.
It's amazingly bizarre. But now I kind of understand the logic behind it...
I think it's all abouot associating with people I like and dissociating from people I dislike.
Hi Mark, great video, but I'm having trouble reconciling the notion of "changing the systems" with unhealthy avoidance coping. How would one go about differentiating the two and/or what would you identify as the distinguishing factor?
This can be tricky. I'll give you two examples that were helpful for me to understand this. In my internet addiction course, I mention that if people want to put some kind of blocker/firewall on their phone or computer during the first week to help them, that could be useful, but the next week, they need to start practicing being at the computer with that blocking software turned off for progressively increasing amounts of time. That's the only way they're going to build up the skills and abilities to make choices online they're happy about. Sometimes, we just don't have the skills yet to do something but I only ever suggest avoiding something if there's a very specific plan for not avoiding it very, very soon. It's a bit like swimming and drowning. If you don't know how to swim, you'll drown. But if I want you to swim, I can't just keep forcing you into the water and telling you not to avoid it. Supports need to be in place so you can learn how to swim. But to learn how to swim, you're still going to need to get into the water, but it might be shallow at first, and you might get to wear some inflatable water wings. :)
The second example that I think is useful to understand has to do with behaviors that lead to compulsions but have no particular value in our lives. For example, turning on my computer the moment I walk in the door. It became very automatic. There wasn't any need for me to do it. I just did it. It didn't have any terrible or even mildly negative consequences. But it was still a compulsion and it added no value to my life and it made it easier to get sucked into other compulsions later. It's valuable to learn how to be around a computer at any time and not engage in compulsions, but there was also no value to me continuing that compulsion. An added benefit of cutting that out meant it became more difficult to engage in other compulsions because I'd changed a key step in that compulsive system.
Considering a differentiator or distinguishing factor for that system change, I'd say that it's about asking whether it brings any value to my life. Do I really need to be in a particular situation, or am I just putting myself in a seemingly "normal" situation because I know it'll actually make it much easier to accidentally fall back into compulsions later?
Awesome answer, Mark! That makes a lot of sense. Essentially, always turning the computer on was a seemingly harmless, yet unnecessary compulsion altogether that set you up for potentially worse, anxiety-inducing compulsions down the line. Constantly reflecting against your core values and the things you really want to be doing that you know are healthy seems to be the operative theme in every scenario. It's so comically obvious when spelled out like that but I guess it goes to show just how blinding addictions can be, especially when "the fix" is right in your head.
Yeah, it's amazing how easily we get stuck in these repetitive ruts, never questioning whether the things we're doing are actually things we want to spend our lives on or things that bring us any value. Have fun moving up and over this challenge!
+Mark Freeman Cheers! Your videos have been nothing short of revelatory for me, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that you've saved my life. You're doing really amazing work here and I couldn't wish better for you.
@@everybodyhasabrain amazing stuff
Can u kindly post ocd motivation video again ,
Hi Mark Freeman, iam a vietnamese, i had been a OCD man too for 4 years and i am very bad at English language
Can you summarize your video, please? thank you for your help ^^ . i need your advice so bad 😪.😢
It would be nice if there were captions. There are automatic ones but they are odd.
Do you have any tips on resisting compulsions? They make me feel good and that i should do them. How do i resist them?
If you're looking for ways to cut them out, you've probably noticed that the "good" feeling is actually a lie. In my book, YOU ARE NOT A ROCK, I describe it as somebody that says they like jumping in the water but hate getting wet. If you hate the consequences of the compulsions, maybe they don't actually feel good.
yeaah i hate it when ocd gets into thrown into narrow bckets when there really are alot of people with very unique obsessions.
I got a ocd problem I post music on Facebook alot when I do that it makes me fill better
I will always have this addiction
You can cut it out.
What I mean is what you said in the video about OCD recovery. Where you said hopefully it takes the rest of your life.
mark plz... reply me my ocd says ur event is real so u have to react on it
Hello, again.
When you start talking about compulsions as all these different types of coping mechanisms, I wonder to myself 'what isn't a compulsion anymore?--is there anything I like that isn't?' This worries me to no end. I think, 'Hey that good thing I was doing was good, but I absolutely hated it--so then, is it so good anymore?' I have voices telling me to be healthy, but I do not want to be healthy in the way I am being told--they say, 'Go outside for a walk', and I think 'I want to become more grounded, instead, rather than always having to go somewhere else'. I just get so upset [frustrated] and confused by the end of it all--what isn't a compulsion anymore? Is there no true form of exposure? To me, based on our animal nature--addiction is essentially anything that makes us feel good--so how can I live the life I want when I do not want to chase after having the most views, highest-peak of body performance, the greatest list of achievements?--I just want to be me in silence. It's so noisy.
Hey there WULD, this is a really good question about what is and isn't a compulsion, I would say have a thing about it, some of the things you mentioned I think you know deep down which behaviours are compulsions, It can be difficult to figure out at first because it's almost like your brain or your self is trying to convince itself that the behaviours are okay, that's okay and that dichotomy of thinking about quitting something but doing it anyway because of the immediate relief is normal. I think it kind of comes down to a subjective feeling of what is and isn't productive. A professional artist spending hours every day drawing is, surfing the web for porn for hours a day isn't, reading about a subject that interests you for hours is but chasing the perfectionist goals you mentioned isn't. Ask yourself if what you are doing is healthy to you. don't self justify like a smoker saying i'll quit right after this last one!.
Funny after following you for years I always thought that you preach cutting out compulsions must be done by will. I don‘t know why I believed it but I thought I can’t beat anxiety if I can‘t just not do the compulsion by will. Which is wrong on so many levels. I remember hearing you say „change the systems“ but I thought it‘s more like political 😂. I only understand what you mean after failing million times and now seeing this video. I rejected other classic therapy strategies because of this. I am glad I am over this narrow mindset
Let it be easy!
Where is the video where you talk about that seeking full certainty is counterproductive, because when one solves a thought, the brain just creates a bigger uncertainty and so on and so on?
I'm not sure what specific video that would be in. I imagine I've mentioned that or referred to it many. It's just a fact. It sounds like you already know that fact.
If your issues resolve around things you can't avoid, like showering or going to bathroom. How do you work on stopping compulsion like rinsing/ washing over and over and using lots of toilet paper?
When I was working on compulsions like that I had to cut them out. There's no magic to it. You commit to how you're going to do and then when you feel the urge to keep going or do more, you don't!
@Mark Freeman thank you. I watch you videos for my 20 year old daughter and love your advice. Keep it going !
@@drewmanning1025 Thanks!
I have rocd and I use to practice ACT and I felt good but I acted on a compulsion and I spiralled down as I couldn't see my girlfriend for 2 days and I got anxious. Then I did ERP and I got a lot of anxiety but things didn't go as well as I did ACT. I found myself spending a lot of my time with my girlfriend and that lowered my anxiety and made it go away at times. Is spending time with my girlfriend a compulsion ? I ruminate at times and I know that's a compulsion. I also cut out a lot of compulsions however I don't know my compulsions right now. Sometimes I feel angry and want to lash out - does that come with OCD ? I won't be seeing my girlfriend for a week straight and I've been dreading this week as I know I'll get anxiety - having OCD makes me not feel like I miss her and my thoughts say that I don't miss her and that I've lost feelings. Is being alone for a week doing ERP ?
Like I mentioned in the previous comment, I'd recommend getting a workbook to follow. There are tons of great books on ACT, too. Practicing ACT would involve accepting anxiety but you make it sound like experiencing anxiety is a bad thing to avoid. So it could help to follow a guide with this. Something like Steven Hayes' "Get out of your mind and into your life" might be useful.
Mark Freeman thank you for the recommendations I will definitely give them a read. I know it get a little annoying if I ask the same questions but I do not know my own compulsions as I've just recently developed OCD. Is spending all my
Time with my girlfriend a compulsion ? I got less intrusive thoughts and anxious reactions when I spent less time with her - and now that I can't see her my anxiety is popping back. Reassuring myself as in telling my SO the reasons I love her and that we'll get through this journey together a compulsion ?
Mark Freeman one of my values is to be the best boyfriend I can be, so I do not know of me trying to be is a compulsion to check if I love her etc
did u try linden, bars and QHHt
No.
What if the compulsions are thoughts? It's easier to stop yourself from doing an action than it is to stop thoughts.
As an extreme example, you could lock yourself up in a room without any alcohol and throw the key away, but with thoughts it's like you have the alcohol or drug in your brain and system already 24/7
Make sure you're also tackling physical / external compulsions like posting the same question under multiple videos. Something I see often is people insisting they only have mental compulsions, while they're actively doing lots of physical compulsions but they like the physical compulsions or see them as necessary.
What if you make a compulsion out of trying to preform healthy things? Like you're always trying to do the healthy things? Like if I am sitting at a lab with someone and I see them I think, "oh I must engage with them!" Then I start talking to them but it's only really for the compulsion. Also when I'm in my house and I feel the need to talk to my parents to get over my social anxiety. I talk to them but as a way to be certain. Then my mind keeps saying "talk to themmmm" should I then not talk to them for a while? Then even if I don't carry the thought compulsion I still don't know when to go and talk to them in my house but I do it anyways but I'm always trying to be certain when I should talk to people to get over my social anxiety. Also when I'm in the car and my brain is like talk talk talk. But I do kinda have to talk to my parents either way- but how in a healthy way?
And I know answering that question doesn't help either but should I just stop trying to be certain for a while till the obsession goes away and then again try again to build a relationship?
+Sean Vasquez I mean I know you're always suppose to be uncertain but I don't know how to talk to them through "uncertainty" if that makes sense. I accept the thoughts and talk to them anyways but It's still this cycle of when do I talk
+Sean Vasquez That's a very common compulsion. OCD's clever way of trying to hang on is to turn recovery into a compulsion. That's why it's so important to make the switch to not doing everything in reaction to getting over a problem but to simply put your time and energy into the things you care about because those are part of the life you want to create. If you only do things to avoid something, then your brain will always worry about the thing you want to avoid, even if the things you're doing are "healthy". It helped me to recognize that reacting to an urge not to do something is the same as reacting to the urge to do something. In both situations, I'm putting those random urges and feelings in charge of my life. But that had disastrous consequences.
this is where im at now: dealing with my recovery which has become an obsession. everything i do thats positive is controlled by urges to be perfect and get it right . but it feels forced and fake so i end up feeling more stressed. your comment helped me further clarify that this isnt the right way for me to go about recovery. you're right when you say having an urge to do something positive is just as bad as having the urge to take part in a compulsion. my new ultimate goal is to become urge free...and for someone has lived with every type of ocd under the sun, i can tell u its not about the thought content, its the habit. ive gotten over specific fears but not my obsessive and compulsive behavior. thanks Mark! !
It's hard to make changes to your system or environment if you have checking OCD though - I have to lock my door...I can't avoid doing it, obviously. So how would I deal with that?
The first compulsion I had to cut out when I was doing therapy was my door checking compulsion. If it's not clear how to do that, working with a skilled professional could be a great way to learn how to get started on cutting out compulsions.
@@everybodyhasabrain Well, when that doubt creeps in my brain telling me I need to go back and check, I'm trying to be very aware that it's OCD and that I really don't need to go back. Like, it's not an actual fact. However, when my OCD gets really bad, I can sometimes literally be pushing on the door to make sure it's locked but the message just doesn't get through to my brain...it's like there's a disconnect or something. That only happens very rarely, when I'm stressed in other areas of my life. Your videos have been helping so much though, thank you.
Or, I guess I should work on being ok with the thought that maybe I didn't lock it?
Yeah, I found it most useful to work on accepting that I hadn't locked it and could handle the outcomes of that. It was those outcomes I was actually afraid of. If we just reassure ourselves that we did lock it, that's only confirming to the brain that we should be scared of not locking it and can't handle the outcomes that will result from that. But I can show my brain it can trust me to handle those.
@@everybodyhasabrain Right! It seems such a radical approach but it makes so much sense. It means there's nothing to fear anymore.
Is Googling and obsessively reading about all this also a compulsion?!
Yes, very much.
@@everybodyhasabrain oh damn! I keep reading all the time. The fear, sensations and disgust around my thoughts has gone down tremendously and I keep googling why that is even though my therapist has told me not to! Now I understand!
@@sweetlimesoda98 the checking online and checking the feelings is the same. It naturally makes you feel the feelings aren't "right" or enough because... then you have to check more and keep the addiction going. The most recent video on my channel is about this, too: ua-cam.com/video/C_o8U6F53dY/v-deo.html
@@everybodyhasabrain yes and after a while my head starts hurting! Thanks for the reply :)
RE: "Stopping compulsions further up stream"
I know you didn't mean it like this, but isn't this in some respects, avoidance? If you know something is going to cause you to obsess and perform compulsions, and you instead choose not to even start doing something because of that, it's a form of avoidance, yes?
I get what you mean though, about not feeding your environment into avenues that'll only lead to compulsions and to "mix things up" a little, add randomness and changes. Just felt I'd better mention the warning bell of avoidance as that's a route I would rather have not started years ago if I'd realised it then :(
I think it helps you when you just start recovery. But of course, the issues have to be dealt with later on.
It's like Lea said, it's often only a tool at the beginning. Although there are also situations where it might be permanent and it's not avoidance because those old unhealthy compulsions/situations just don't align with your values and where you want to go in life. I like to keep the focus on the healthy life I'm building.
I have found your videos very helpful. This one however, I have found perplexing. I know you remain vague for a reason, but I believe that doing so in this particular video can be greatly misleading.
I have never once considered my compulsions as pleasurable in any way. Let's say I have a fear of a disease I had in my past of reoccurring and that leads to a ritual of some sort, say, turn on and off the light 100 times for 10 times throughout the night. This is annoying at best, and, I am consciously fully aware that the disease I fear won't be affected at all by this. It does not ease my anxiety, It only eases the extra OCD anxiety.
In another instance. As someone who is naturally scientific and problem solving, I am driven to discover the truth and to be aware of things in a way that is reasonable, well balanced and that can be robust to reasonable doubt given evidence. In some cases the worst case scenario must be assumed and overcome to prevent a disastrous result in some new technology or system etc. In daily life this can be problematic as you might know.
My OCD usually is of the type of acquiring certainty over a feared situation, and since I am exceptionally good at finding both positives and negatives, this almost always leads to mind-breaking levels of anxiety and panic attacks, which can cause major disruptions in my daily functioning if left unchecked. That's why I have learned to use ACT, ERP and mental restructuring to keep my mind healthy and objective.
Considering compulsions as addictions is something that really confused me here as it is making me think that "I am doing these things to gain a fix" when in the overwhelming number of cases, doing it will cause an anxiety spike at best, and a full blown mental breakdown at worst.
Moreover, how do you differentiate this type of 'avoidance of environment' from OCD actually creating compulsions to avoid? Let's stay I have a perceived fear that my favourite thing in the world, say, my job, is actually bad for me, and must be avoided at all costs, or say my favourite movie, or my favourite game, or my favourite photo etc. This can easily become a slippery slope. At some point you need to learn what is reasonable and what is not. Say, fearing that going back to your family home will trigger your OCD, something you know for sure, might lead one to think that avoiding that place is a good way to remain healthy. However, the only way forward is to go there, sit with the anxiety, challenge your thoughts or simply let them pass without judgement until your mind reforms itself. You can create opportunities for good memories of good behaviours and habits in that place of old discomfort to help the process.
Where do compulsions begin and where do I begin? I find overgeneralizing videos of this type really confusing. I also understand the other video you made about all thoughts being 'farts' as meaning to describe cognitive defusion, but in reality it can also lead one astray, not paying attention to the good thoughts either. Whereas in reality it should all be about the usefulness of the thoughts, which, again, is a notion formed from experience and personal insight.
I love your videos, but I just wanted to let you know that some people like myself, were actually thrown off by this video, and I actually began obsessing that every thought or idea for action I have might be a form of me seeing a 'fix', when in reality, it's just my brain trying to protect me and giving me a compulsion. Like, should I go check whether my experiment earlier had a bug in it if I suspect that might be the case? I would definitely believe so, and it would probably be a good idea, unless I am doing it thousands of times when I clearly know that all is well with the world, or if the thought follows a known OCD theme that I know about myself.
Knowing which wave to ride, i.e. useful thoughts, and which to let pass, i.e. not useful thought, is a better way to think of this I believe. Not all waves are surfable, and some might even be dangerous and useless to even attempt to. One needs to know whether their certainty-seeking has reached an unhealthy level or not. Not doing any certainty-seeking means that you are probably doomed to fail at everything and doing a ton means that you will never be able to do anything in life.
I disagree.
@@everybodyhasabrain Can you help me understand? I am quite confused about which parts you disagree on, and why. I am just trying to understand here. I became confused by some of the vagueness in the video and I am trying to understand.
@@everybodyhasabrain Let me also just add that I consider you a role model for OCD fighting to a good extent, and as such, receiving a vague I disagree on multiple points I made, is really causing me distress here. Could we have a discussion here, so we can solve the misunderstanding? I just want to apply the right things to my routine.
It helped me to see that OCD was just an extension of a logic I taught my brain throughout my life. It's like teaching the brain a piece of code. So the amount of time that went into writing the first comment is an example of the seemingly "normal" stuff we do that tells the brain: "If we encounter some uncertainty or something that feels wrong, we've got to figure it out and fit it into a certain box." For getting over mental illness struggles, it helped me to see I had to learn new codes throughout life, with uncertainty. If I practice compulsions around uncertainties that don't distress me, how can I not practice them around topics that do?
@@everybodyhasabrain I understand what you are trying to say here. I was more specifically trying to communicate that in my experience, many OCD compulsions are not 'pleasurable' in any way. In my case they usually appear as a form of prevention from doing things I actually love to do and want to do, such as my favourite games, activities and my work, which I adore. Or even hanging out with my best friends, or liking my favourite people in the world etc. In its attempt to provide 'security' it comes up with this royal pains in the ass basically. ERP is the best way to treat those types.
However, yes, I also had reassurance-seeking compulsions of mental gymnastics trying to prove definitively that something is OK, and those are slippery slopes, like a drug in the short term but utterly destructive in the longer term. Uncertainty is always part of the game, and the moment I accepted that and agreed that the fearful thought might be true, but I'll do what I believe is right anyway, they began to disappear, slowly yet surely.
Now. I don't know if you had the displeasure of experiencing depression, OCD, and dissociation-inducing panic attacks at the same time ever in your life, but that's what's been going on with me in the past few months. My mind tends to over-generalize me being wrong on one thing with being wrong about everything in life, which I am working on, hence why I became distressed earlier and tried my utmost best to express my concerns and receive your feedback.
One of those concerns was about 'avoiding' vs 'changing the system'. I have been in situations were noticing that I get more compulsions at specific environments, lead to avoiding them, which improved my mental health and overall performance, but meant that I had increasingly more fear towards perceived 'environment subconscious effects'. I think the best way forward in those situations is to gauge the risks and rewards and if deemed useful, to expose the self in the environment where compulsions increase and overtime to overwrite those with new memories.
Another concern is about making sure that we don't end up becoming reckless by overindulging ourselves on 'not checking' and embracing the 'uncertainty' type behaviours which can be both freeing in the right context of 'spam' OCD thoughts, but also a bad idea if the thoughts themselves and the associated 'proposed' actions are of use, i.e. checking once before bed if I turned off all the lights to ensure I am not wasting energy. This is reasonable, and in no way enters the exaggerated OCD territory.
I guess my overall point is that balance is key in everything in life, including how one approaches OCD therapy.
linden method said no therapy or anyone help only u relax
What do you mean really when you say cutting out all the compulsions and patterns?
I have intrusive thoughts that are causing pain, and also some symmetry and door-checking patterns, but those doesn't bother me as much as the violent intrusive thoughts.
So, my point is, should I mess up my room (as an exposure to my symmetry-addiction) in order to get progress with the violent thoughts?
Thx so much for these videos!
Personally, I define a compulsion as anything I do to cope with, check on, or control uncertainty, anxiety, and other feelings I don't like. So that led to me changing much more than just the things that seemed like OCD compulsions. In general, I think it helps to start with the things that bother you less. They're usually easier to cut out first, which helps learn the skills involved in eliminating compulsions, which makes it easier to cut out the more troubling ones.
I hate ocd! lol
I'm a recovered alcoholic.
Beneath the symptom of alcoholism is the same problem as ocd.
Go to an AA meeting and you'll hear OCD, Bipolar, manic depression etc etc.
Its all the same crap down at the core of the problem.
You are talking about compartmentalism, thats a trap where the symptoms are left free to morph into a new symptoms because the root cause is never honestly dealt with.
For myself, its dangerous to try and intellectualize my way out of obsessive behavior, the malady cannot be fooled.
Whatever knowledge I gain, the illness also knows ( I'm implying its sentient and it is).
Don't addicts try and find a high, whereas ocd sufferers try and relieve anxiety? 🤔
The relief is the high
@@everybodyhasabrain gotcha Mark.. Thanks for the videos BTW!
You're welcome!
@@everybodyhasabrain Mark, what do you think of The Dare Reponse ?.. Pretty much about acceptance
@@789quicky I don't know what the "Dare Response" is
I wish I can just change my theme bc I have been dealin withit for so long now it gotten scarry but its not happening
Meebo Meebo It can help not to get caught up in themes. It's normal to get stuck on something if you think OCD has themes because then you miss all of the other compulsions feeding into the one bothering you.
Yes I think Im stuck bc I just don't want to deal with this paricular theme
Meebo Meebo That's not what I meant. I mean: believing that this is a "theme" is the problem.
I See,Thanks, but what did you mean by missing all the other comulsions?
Try looking at it like this: That "theme" you dislike is similar to pain. Let's say a were a runner and you started to experience pain in your knees when you were running. You might go to a doctor for help with the pain but the doctor is going to look at what's causing the pain. And if you're experiencing pain while running, you'll probably need to change how you're running. It might have been the way you've always run but now you see the results of that practice you've always engaged in. So even though it's the pain that bothers you, what actually needs to change is how you run. That old way of running is like the compulsions we engage in that seem "normal" or necessary to us. We can't get rid of the obsession if we keep engaging in those compulsions, just like the runner will always struggle with the pain if they don't change how they're running. They can keep going around trying to find people to tell them how to relieve the pain. They can tell people that they could just move on with life if only they could get rid of that knee pain. But the pain is not the problem. It's only a symptom of the problem.
Really really great video. Every time I think I understand my ocd and anxiety, something new pops up and I see things differently. I'm newly diagnosed and keep wondering what's what. My tendency to obsessively research and fact find feels like it's jamming my capability to understand what's going on with me. Like there's a really important meeting I haven't been invited to in my own head lol x
That's a great way to describe it! I love skipping meetings to get work done and this is probably a meeting you can skip, too. It can seem like we need to understand OCD but I find it more helpful to shift the focus to the healthy things we want to do in life. Trying to be certain about OCD can become a trap full of compulsions. When I feel an urge to chase ayer some uncertainty, I accept that urge and then bring my focus to a healthy action I can do right now.
You're so right!! My 'need' to know everything, the hope to annihilate anything taking me by surprise, is an infinite rabbit hole without adding OCD on top. Thank you x
We Hate The Same Things I’m the exact same way. You described me word from word. How are you now? I’m newly diagnosed as well.
Yep!
I know youre busy but I have a question which has to do with the OCD support group i am "leading" in Helsinki.
When anxious.. What is the best way to study and read/watch youtube tips??
Hard to describe but i quite often find myself doing this when anxious and the positive goal in a way turns into a compulsion of itself to relief pain by just temporarily doing it and then getting worse.
Any good tips on that?
That's great you've got a support group going! In general, going online to find ways to get rid of anxiety when you're anxious is going to become a compulsion. Compulsions are all about trying to do things to get rid of feelings we don't like. So when somebody feels anxious, that can be a great opportunity to do something they value. OCD has already received enough of their time and energy. To help with that, it can be useful to have something to do already lined up. For example, when I was cutting out a bunch of intense compulsions, I bought some new books that I wanted to read. So when I would feel the intense anxiety and urges, instead of engaging in compulsions, I would practice reading. Reading was something I enjoyed but I always told myself I didn't have time (although I clearly had lots of time for compulsions). Enjoying the reading was very difficult because my brain kept trying to think about the anxiety and compulsions. But that's ok if it's difficult. Cutting out compulsions is an exercise and anxiety is like brain sweat. We have to make our brains sweaty with anxiety while we do things we care about if we want them to stop acting this way.
Thank you for your thorough answer :)
This is in a way something I already know but getting easily lured back to.
But your example is a good one.
For example I love movies and OCD loves telling me that "you are wasting your time with this nonsense.. stop it"... it even throws "odd feelings into favorite movies ive seen so many times".
Movies also train me to feel things (which my disorder doesnt) so in a way that is something I deeply value and will continue doing.
Singing would be a skill that would be another thing i would like to do.
The whole supportgroup is really awesome... while i still notice controlling/coping here as well. Basically the fear of not beeing "good enough" to help others.
Which I know through my values is false.
Thanks alot Mark. :)
Fabulous answer...LOVE the videos...